I'm pam Stevenson and um we're doing a oral history interview for the
living history video project for Arizona State University retirees
association today is october the 23rd of 2000 and three at the visitor
center at issue and I'll let you introduce yourself and give me your name
and tell me what you were doing when you retired from the issue when I
retired. And then we'll go back and talk about how you got started
Elizabeth Webster. Pep Low, better known as Bonnie and I was born. Do you
want to know that now? And tell me what was your position, Assistant
director of the News Bureau. And then we can go back and talk about when
you were born. And
I was born in philadelphia pennsylvania in 1918 and I attended a Quaker
school. I was married in 1937
And then right after the war in 1945 we headed West and eventually settled
in the verde valley of Arizona.
And while we were there I wrote a novel that was published by Zondervan
and collaborated with my then husband, Ed Pep Low on a cookbook with
Southwestern recipes in it from the cowbells and a guide to Oak Creek
Canyon. And we did many, many magazine articles. Tell me why don't you
back up a little bit and tell me about what brought you out west? My
husband had asthma and my son had really bad ears and we were living in
massachusetts and the doctors then said the only thing they could think of
that would help both of them was to try Arizona. So we just headed west
not knowing where we were going or what we're gonna do. That must have
been quite interesting. Quite a track. Yes, we were on the road for six
weeks. My baby daughter was six weeks old when we left and that's the
story in itself. The trek out west in the station wagon, We brought my dad
with us, he was 60 years old. My son was 4.5 and as I say, my daughter was
six weeks old and we headed west and found, fell in love with Oak Creek
Canyon and the red rocks. That's why we finally settled there. Had you
heard about that back east or how did you end up there? My husband was a
Princeton graduate and he had known kelly fox at Princeton and kell lived
, he knew lived in Northern Arizona and it was a cattle man and was in the
legislature. So we kind of, we're gonna look for him and we did run into
him in phoenix that just happened to meet him on the street and he talked
us into going up there and seeing the red rocks and we just totally fell
in love with Arizona. And I've been in love with it ever since. What was
phoenix like when you came here? What year was that 1945?
It was much more, much smaller and Tempe was just a quiet little college
town. He said he ran into him on the street. But we were, we had breakfast
at one of the restaurants on Central Avenue. And as we came out of the
restaurant, we started walking down the sidewalk and saw this cattleman
and a Stetson hat and boots. And it was cal fox just amazing that he would
be there and we would see him because my husband didn't have his address
or anything. We were just going to look for him. So you found him? We
found him. How big was phoenix back then? What was downtown phoenix like?
Well, it's hard, I can't remember how many what the population was, but it
was just a whole lot smaller. Um
Gosh, it's hard to hard to I picture it now the way it is now and it's
hard to picture it the way it was then downtown was. There were buildings
and stores and people shop downtown a lot more than.
And so you just went up to the verde valley. Did you know anybody up there
? Where you other than cal fox? That was No, we didn't know anybody. How
did you find a place to live? What, where was your first home in corn
ville?
Okay. And
We had done some writing already. And when we got out here and settled in
Corn Ville, we let our editors know where we were. And then we told them
the phone number where we were, we didn't have a phone in the house was
Corn Ville one. And of course they couldn't believe that
what kind of writing had you done before articles and that sort of thing.
And as I say I had written a novel and we did, we did four short
commercial movies for Chevrolet, we scripted them and went in Tucson one
in cedar breaks, Utah and two in colorado at Aspen and colorado springs
and worked for the very independent up there was a newspaper in Cottonwood
before we moved to phoenix.
So but you say you have been a writer back east before you came here and
what kind of writing did you do back there? Well, my husband was in
advertising actually and I had just just written poetry and short stories
and that sort of thing. So how are you going to make a living when you
came out here writing? And actually that's what we did, I think of it now
and I would have never had the nerve to do something like that now, but we
were young and
it went well, so you didn't dream of becoming cowboys or having a rant or
anything, you know?
So then what brought you finally to phoenix and the issue? Well, um after
we got to phoenix Maggie Savoy, who was editor of the Arizona Republic
Women's Page um interviewed me to do a story on my novel and about our
writing adventures And in 1955 when Joe Spring who was head of the News
Bureau at Arizona State University needed a writer for his staff. He
remembered reading Maggie's article. And so he got my phone number from
her and called up and asked me if I'd like to come to work in the news
bureau and I said yes And that's how my 30 year career on campus began.
Well that's how did you get from cornwall to phoenix? Just moved down here
and bought a house and
to be more available for writing things. My husband did a history of
Arizona and some of the people that he was working with were down here.
So what year did you move to phoenix? 53 I think it was And I went to work
at issue in 55. Had you worked full time anywhere before? That was a big
change for you. How come you decided to do that? Well it sounded like an
exciting job and it was is was what was your first job here? A writer in
the news bureau And in the beginning um joe Spring hired me to write
stories that would be of interest to women for the women's pages. Maggie
Savoy was at the Republic and we we wrote for all the papers and the radio
stations and television and I interviewed
faculty women who were interesting, had interesting stories who offered
interesting programs. Um great damage was president then and I did stories
the damages every fall had a reception where they greeted and welcomed all
the new students. And that was a big event in those days. There were only
about 4500 students. So we knew most of the faculty and a lot of the
students. And let's see there were things that the, the sororities, the
papers like to list all the women who are pledged to sororities and that's
how I started out. But then I quickly quite quickly focus started focusing
on cultural events And that was my main task, the 30 years that I was
there. So did you still live in phoenix and commute out to issue. And now
we moved to Tempe. So we'd be near the university. My husband worked there
too.
Mhm. Um Well, tell me about how you mentioned the women faculty. How many
women faculty? What kind of faculty were women were there? Oh, there were
a lot of them. Um women in, in education and nursing in home economics, in
the english department, in physical education department, wives of some of
the professors. The faculty wives club. Always lots of material to write
about. Are there any of them that stand out in your mind that were
particularly interesting? Well, I I just plain enjoyed everybody that I
interviewed. They were all, especially when I got into the fine arts. They
were extremely creative and uniquely individual. Each one of them and I
truly loved working with them. I have a list of people that I have been
reminiscing about this last week and I listed some of them. So I wouldn't
forget when I came to talk to you. Well you want to mention some of them
now. Mhm You need your notes or you want to just tell us about some of
them. Um, there's so many, I really would do better looking at my notes I
think on the white paper. Mm hmm. Thank you. Mhm.
As I said, president damage was, well, tell us a little bit about
president damage. What was he like? He and his wife were just delightful
people. They lived on campus in the house that later became alumni house.
Okay. They had their home was on campus and they, we're very involved in
all the doings on campuses. I think I mentioned the receptions, they had
each fall for the new students and Catherine Gamut who is a lovely hostess
and it was nice that they lived right there on campus. Of course the
university was a lot smaller than it was Arizona state College. It was not
yet a university. And so
the, the events were, the organization was a lot less complex. The, we
dealt directly with the president's office and the people I remember we're
Gilbert Katie who is vice president of business Affairs and HD Richie
Richardson was academic vice president. Um, I remember mary bunty, she
worked for, she was a secretary in president damages office. Um let's see
George Morel was in purchasing and al thomas was the registrar, there were
just so many wonderful people to work with and then when I got into
covering all the fine arts there was all the music faculty and the art
faculty, the theater and dance people. Can you tell me anything about? You
know, you've got a long list of people here in the same music, wow any
particular ones that stand out that everybody there, I cared a lot about.
It's hard to pick out just one or 2. It would be interesting if you could
tell us a story about, you know, one or two of them that you know have
more than just a list of needs.
Well let's see um Dave School are, who was in music and worked with the
vocal groups also was founding director of Gammage Auditorium and he was
someone that I worked with and admired tremendously before Gammage
Auditorium was built, we had what was called the Lyceum series and that
they would bring plays and music and Dave was in charge of that and then
where they presented them was in the ballroom at the memorial Union and
that that's where the Lyceum series was held until later. We of course had
damaged center and that was how could you tell us about how damaged center
, how that came to be built? President Gammage and frank Lloyd wright were
friends and they got together and discussed the design for the building
that was a very exciting time And it was not only of interest here in the
valley and statewide, but there were stories all over the country and even
when it opened, even some people from europe came to the grand opening the
opening weekend, Eugene Ormandy and the philadelphia Orchestra, We're here
for that opening gala weekend. And also they presented
ah Camelot, a wonderful production of Camelot. And in those days everybody
wore formal dresses. It was, it was an exciting time. What is it that it
opened in 1964?
That was after the, after President Gamage had died. It was and of course
it was called Grady Gammage Memorial Auditorium. But he had worked, it
made a great deal to him. He had worked with frank Lloyd wright on the
plans for it in the building. And I've heard that the original plans were
done to me that there was supposed to be built somewhere else. You know?
That's true. I think so. I think somewhere abroad and of course originally
they were going to be ponds at the end of the walkways that go down like
this, that we're going to be lakes there. But finances were always a
problem. We never had the money we needed for things. I guess that's still
true today. We're still trying to, but they had to cut back on some of the
plans. Right. But it was, it was a wonderful time. Very exciting.
Certainly changed the look of campus. They did. They did, yeah.
Do you know remember anybody else that was involved in the construction of
that? You mentioned the David?
Well, he was founding director of damage and he's the one that arranged
all the events and I would write about them and talk to him and discuss it.
And we'd I'd uh get the stories to all the papers and radio and
television about the events that damage. And also it was such a, a
wonderful thing to be able to work with art faculty.
Oh, there were so many of them Don Schomburg and Bengu who were sculptors
and the hedge of the art department and he broke them and Henry Bruinsma
George Amberson. Uh because Harold Hines was conductor of the band. And
Eugene Lombardi with conductor of the symphony orchestra. They were all
just great people in the art department. You've got down here, Eugene
Grigsby, do you remember when he came here? I don't remember what year,
but I certainly enjoyed talking with him and and working. I would
interview people and then write stories about the art shows there, art
shows and about the music programs, dance concerts and I thought that was
very important to let they enriched the university and the students and
the faculty there, but also for the community. It was such a rich
experience for the community and I thought it was important for them to
know what was available and that's why it, I never cease being
enthusiastic about my job.
And Eugene Grigsby of course was african american. Were there very many
african american faculty at that time.
So many at that time. No mark sunk it in on the music faculty and also was
african american. But there were not that many.
He got down Rudy turf. Can you tell me about him? Well, he was curator and
director of the Art museum and I have brought wonderful art shows to
campus. What's he like? I'm going to interview him later. What should I be
asking? Um,
I guess I asked him what kind of art he tried to develop what he, what he
brought to the museum and his work as a curator. I think that would be an
interesting story. Do you remember when he came with? I can't remember
dates like that. It's difficult. But you were already here when? Oh yes,
yeah, cube broadly had been curated before. Rudy turk so and I I came when
he was there. How did things change when he came?
Mm hmm. Everything got larger. We had more artwork and of course
eventually the new art museum was built but that was a lot of years later.
Seriously, you should cut down here.
Jim Jim Elmore is another one that's on our list to interview. Tell me
about him. He was head of architecture and every year the students would
have an exhibit of, of designs that they developed and that was another
thing that I covered. We'd get pictures of of the student work and they
they had wonderfully creative designs and had them on on show so that
people could see them. The school of architecture was pretty new in the
50s. Yes it was Because um A. S. A. S. C. Arizona State College became
Arizona State University in 1960 for I believe it was. And of course that
was a huge project everybody was involved in that. It was it was a team
project, the students, the faculty, the alumni of course the News bureau
was part of the team and it was a major victory for president damage when
indeed the vote went the way we hoped it would and we became a university
instead of being just a college? Why was that so important?
It was the only way it could have grown the way it did. We went from
having departments to having four colleges within the university and those
were business and liberal arts. Um Let's see the science and Technology
And education. Those were the four colleges. And of course it just kept
growing and expanding from there. And how about the school of Architecture
? How did that get started or how did that grow? Um Once once he became a
university it was possible for to add colleges and to add schools of and
things like that so that it became much more inclusive.
Do you remember when the law school got started? Yeah. Again I'm shaky on
dates but dates are important. Just tell me about what happened. Um We
were excited to get that. There was the competition between the U. Of A.
And S. You. And of course they got the the
College of Medicine and uh we got the College of Law and that was that was
a whole new area for us and just kept once, once it became a university it
was much more possible to bring in these other programs, the School of
Nursing and the College of Fine Arts. And it uh it developed from there.
You talked about Grady Gammage. Um Why don't you talk about some of the
presidents that came after HD Richardson who had been academic vice
president, served as interim president between President Gammage and Homer
G. Durham. And I remember President Durham um he was very much I felt a
people person and sometimes I ran into him on the mall one day and in fact
every time I saw him he would ask me how my son was doing and my daughter
was doing by name and I thought that was pretty special that he would
take the time to do that and be interested in the people who worked for
him and their families.
And after Durham was
harry newborn, what was he like? He was only president for a couple of
years. He was interim president for one year and
regular president for a year. And then after that Russ nelson I think,
oh yeah john swatter
get him, I don't want to forget him. He was um mhm, very much a ceo of big
business. It was, it had a different feel to it, but each, each one of the
president's I think brought what was needed at the time. Each one
contributed something different and special.
And then you mentioned nelson, what tell me about nelson. He was more laid
back and
easy to work with. What did he bring?
Huh?
I'm trying to think what new things
just, I think rapport with the community. I would think of with him and I
think it was important to let the people in the community know what was
happening at the university that
I think that was something that he was very successful at, that was part
of your job. Yes, very definitely. Tell me a little more about the news
bureau. How big was the news bureau when you started for people? And we
had old standard typewriters, old clunky standard typewriters joe spring
was, I don't think he ever went over budget. He was very aware of the
tightness of the financial situation. And so we started out with that kind
of typewriter, we would Type two stories, 1 type of story for the Republic
, the Arizona republic. And then, because that and the phoenix gazette,
they were competitive papers in those days. We'd write a second version
for the phoenix gazette. And then with each of the two versions we do
seven carbon copies and those carbon copies went to the temporary daily
News, the mesa tribune the Scottsdale progress. We hand delivered the
stories to the Republican cadet and temporary news and if it was a story
that was going to go all over the state for some reason a major event then
we'd mimeograph it and mail it out. But normally we just do this carbon
copies of things. And finally, finally we got electric typewriters and
before I left we were all using computers. But what a difference. We also
got a Xerox machine during that period and that made a tremendous
difference. You can imagine having to hand deliver things that would take
a lot of time. Yeah, yeah, either joe or I would go down to the papers of
course we talked to people and and were able to develop a good
communication with them. And the papers in those early days were very
generous with space. They used practically everything. We wrote verbatim
and we do when there were events like a Band Aid and Homecoming. We get
pictures of those and write a story and have cut lines and they would give
the whole picture pages and by the time I retired we were lucky to get a
listing in in the calendar of events. But in those early days the papers
were very open to material from the news bureau. So the news business
changed a lot. Yes, people today can't imagine a day when you couldn't. I
know, I know.
Uh huh, mm hmm. So was your main job then with the nature of the news
bureau, was writing articles for the outside people have that change. Um
did you start doing more on campus things now? Um the state press people
would come and get copies of our stories and use them K E T would pick up
stories from us. Um our job always was to do stories for the regional and
local and sometimes national media that
and I,
I don't know today exactly what changes have been made because I've been
retired for 20 years, but until I left, that was, that was our purpose. Um
I developed a calendar of events where by that time, so many things going
on. Um and I get that at once a month to all the papers and the radio
station and probably wrote 2030 stories a week because we, we did
everything we wrote about students recitals and than major events of
damage about plays and operas and art shows. And there was a lot of
cultural
opportunities there. Your focus will was we'll see on the local newspapers.
Is that where you really hope mostly tv or not nationally. Well, we sent
it always to tv and some national, but our main focus was the, the state
papers. Mhm
Now I know they have the staff newspaper, I think the news bureau does
some of that insight. Did they have that when you were there? Did you also
do more with the staff that I think started later inside. I can't remember
exactly when. But
we didn't do that. There was the publications that was a different
department than ours. We had nothing to do with that and publications did
some of that and did brochures and things of that sort. So it was
different department. How big was it when you left then retired?
See there were 4500 when I went to work there. There were about
45,000 when I left. That's why I say it just grew and grew. And then the
news bureau, how much bigger was not much bigger. We just, we just worked
a lot harder.
Yeah. Well, that's interesting. Let's see
there were probably, there may have been six people by that time. Mm hmm.
And we did have by then we did have computers that made a big difference.
Okay.
What are you proudest of from what you did here at A. S. U. What I have to
say that the thing I'm proudest of is whole body of work on the, it was
important to me to meet deadlines for the newspapers to get the
entertainment information out to them in time to meet their deadlines. And
as I say, there'd be often 2030 stories a week. I would interview people
interview the faculty, the students find out what their purpose was in the
play they were doing or perhaps talk about costumes. Talk about the dance
programs and what they were trying to show through the dance. And I also
had quite a few reference books on music and dance and theater. And once I
I had interviewed people, then I would write the story and we'd take it
from there. Somebody's calling
wondering, yeah, I couldn't figure out what it was.
Oh, that would
eventually, it'll stop.
You're not giving up. Mhm.
I don't think it's gonna stop. That's a persistent person. The arts. It
was almost entirely, as I say, I started out writing stories for the
women's page, but that quickly shifted. And and it was all of the arts
that I was responsible for somebody else covering more of the, the
research and science. I did a few stories in that area, but mostly focused
on the arts. Yeah. That's monitoring
training.
Were you the only woman at the news bureau when you started? Yes, I was
that we had a secretary.
Was that unusual for a woman to be hired there for that position? Well,
there hadn't, as far as I know, there hadn't been any women before me.
How long before another woman came in?
Oh, probably,
maybe
10 years. five years. I'm not sure. There were quite a few over the years
after that june. And I've been working with the Arizona press women
history. Were you a member of Arizona press women? No, I wasn't.
There weren't that many in the 50s when June was getting started. Yeah. So
it was kind of unusual then for you to be a reporter. Yeah. Well I had
done that up in the very valley for the very independent. So I've had a
little experience, but there were probably weren't very many women up
there either. No, it was a husband and wife, Bill Reid and his wife who
were publishers of and so she was a a reporter too.
Um six thank you covered most of the things here on your notes. Anything
that I didn't, I asked you about, you've got some more names. I have your
list of questions there too.
Look over your notes and see if there's anything you job spring. What was
the work? Joe was a really unique person. He grew up as an english
professor and he was a authority on Shakespeare. He could pull Shakespeare
just all the time. He loved that. Um, but he also was a, his, his vision
for the news bureau was, we operated more like a a newspaper office really.
And so everybody had a general task but like, like I was to do the the
fine arts, but we all just, we would meet in the morning and and have a
general idea of what the day was going to be. But we pretty much went out
on our own and dug stuff up, interviewed and then wrote articles and joe
himself would take them down to the newspaper and meet with the people
down at the newspaper. So it sounds like you're almost like a stringer for
the newspaper. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure they wouldn't have liked to call it
that, but but they did use our stories. They frequently would give us
bylines and it was, it was exciting to see them how much of the material
they did use. And of course, as I said, my my main purpose was two
let the people in the community know what was available on campus and I
guess it was sort of social embedded nous even back then, that's what
we're doing nowadays, I believe with President Crow, but we did it in in a
minor way in the early days, I think through letting people know so many
of the events were open free to the public and it really enriched the
community. There weren't uh, that many cultural centers in those days. The
universities provided a lot of what was available. And that was important
for people when they tried to bring in business is because
people that worked for the businesses wanted to know. Well, what sort of
cultural events do you have? What about times when there were troubles on
campus during the Vietnam War protests during the 60s.
Um
actually I thought we got through that better than a lot of places did. I
know there were a couple of times when we had some unrest and they, I'll
give these to you. So I don't rattle
the campus security would come. But for the most part it was, it was
pretty quiet on campus. Well, did the news bureau have to issue news
releases about those things too? Mhm. Did you ever get involved in writing
those stories? Not too much.
Are there any times that you remember things that were not happy that you
had to cover? Um we're unhappy times on mm hmm.
When people died, that was unhappy, we missed them. Um You hear when
Gammage died? Yeah. What was that? Well, it was a loss and it was, he was
a fine president. It was very sudden to
I'm trying to think of the things that
I mostly remember the happy times. Mhm. The
money was always a problem. Still is for not only a shoe but education
everywhere in the country. I think parking that was another problem and
probably still is. Although the parking structures have made a difference
there. But when I first went to work there, you could park, I parked our
office was in the administration building and I could park just right
there by the window of the office. And of course as time went by I got
more and more difficult to find parking places. I used to go home for
lunch at noon but got, so I couldn't do that because you couldn't find a
parking place if you left for lunch. And so parking? And as far as any
other stress for me personally, probably having to meet deadlines wanting
to meet deadlines. But it can get stressful when you you're dependent on
other people whether they get the stories and the information to you on
time and but it was an exciting job. I loved it. Well you must have you
stayed a long time. Did you ever think when you came here that you'd stay
that long? I don't think I thought about it one way or another. I just
took it one day at a time. What was it that made you stay all those years
? I loved the university, I thought it was important work work I enjoyed
and I cared about
what university stands for, what higher education is about. I think that's
the only way we can grow and learn as people. Mhm.
Well I think I've covered most of the things. Oh I know I didn't ask you
about your advice for young people today that are trying to choose a
career. How what do you tell people? Oh well as far as colleges concerned
to find a college that has a program in in what they're interested in? If
I if they've already made up their minds what they want to do and I think
as far as their career is concerned I would say try to find a career that
you feel passionate about that really matters to you because that worked
for me and I think it would work for other people too. Mhm. Anything else
you wanted to tell us that I didn't ask you? I can't really think of
anything, anything june that I should have asked. Well, I wanted to
comment on joe and she did. Yeah, he was a great person.
Yeah. Yes.
Okay. I think I heard everything.
The
because Elizabeth Bonnie came from, my husband named me that partly
because of my scotch ancestry. And uh mm just he said I was Bonnie which
means in scotches. He thought I was pretty.
Mm hmm.