brigades into. So we're even so mine's broken. Alright, well I could loan
you one of mine
cameras rolling.
Hello, today is february 29th 2012 and we're conducting another interview
for the Arizona State University retirees Association Video history
project. We're located today in the A. S. U. Community Services building
and uh I should introduce myself. I'm Elmer Gooding and we have technical
staff here today consisting of roger carter who will be doing the camera
work as well as the audio and we have dave shots lee who will be our
director for today. And of course in attendance is linda Vance coy, the
chair of our issue or a video history project. So all these volunteers are
here today to interview a very special person and I would like to have our
special person introduced himself today. So if you'll tell us who you are
and yes, I'm Richard, J. Marauder, Colonel, United States Air Force
Retired. And I've been invited to give a presentation here this morning.
I'm really not sure what all I can add to uh the history of A. S you but
I'll do it my best. Well, Dick, we think that the university is made up of
a lot of special people and of course you're one of those special people
and the whole history of the university is tied to you and all the other
people that make up the university. So what we'd like to do first is have
you tell us a little bit about your early childhood and growing up and
then we'll go on from there. Ultimately we'll talk more about a issue. But
let's, let's learn more about you first. Well, first of all I was born in
a little community called J florida, which was just across the borderline
to Brewton Alabama. At the age of three. My mother and I uh, moved to
Brandon florida and I attended schools in Manatee County until I graduated
from high school in the Brandon High School. That was in 1940.
Uh, I
was scheduled to have a music scholarship at Alder Auburn University, but
unfortunately their funds were cut and there went my uh,
my scholarship to Auburn University. I started looking around for other
opportunities and I noticed that at the time there was a lot of talk about
creating a draft because of the World War. Uh, to that was going on and I
didn't want to get caught into a draft. So I decided I would enlist in the
Air Corps, which I did. It took me several attempts in Tampa florida for
them to find out that I could go out to Macdill Air Force Base and get
enlisted. Uh, I enlisted and served as a crew chief on communications on
B17 with the 49th Bomb Group
december the seventh. Unfortunately not only did the Japs attacked Pearl
Harbor, but I attacked it another car and had an automobile wreck, which
broke both arms due to that accident. I couldn't go with my crew when they
took a long range uh cross country to South America because as they got
down to the amazon why? They went down in the amazon?
The crew and the aircraft was later recovered. So everything worked out.
All right. Uh
So what was it like in the Army Air Corps at the time? You, you enlisted?
It was the Army Air Corps at that time. Right before they yes, it was the
Army Air Corps and
It didn't become actually the United States Air Force until 1947.
At which time it was made a separate service. Uh
I had a long and varied career in the Air Force. I served in almost all
capacities that they had to offer. After being commissioned out of docs in
Miami Beach In 1943, I applied for flight training and went to flight
training and got my wings. Uh huh.
What what aircraft did you did you fly? Well, I started off flying a B. O
. B 17, not be 17 as charlie 47 and then I had a little uh 21 years is
asking for a while And then finally I moved into a B- 25. I flew a B- 25
up until I came back to the states. I flew up in Alaska on the aleutian
island chain, which is an experience all by itself. It was one thing that
kind of turned me off of flying because you didn't go anyplace up there
without running into a front and I've been flying through a front one time
and the icing on my wings became so heavy that I was thinking I was gonna
go into the drink. But fortunately I flew out the other side and the ice
disappeared and I made it all the way into Elmendorf. There must have been
a huge relief to come to the other side of that front, I would guess. Yeah
, it is not a place you want to go down in because the water up there, you
left about three minutes and that's it. Oh my. So when you first started
in the Army Air Corps, what what kind of compensation did you receive back
at that time? Well when I enlisted in the Air Corps in 1940 I was a buck
private at $21 a month. And
then I went up to the chain of command in the enlisted ranks. Until when I
went to O. C. S at Miami Beach. I was a tech sergeant. I had become uh
because of my injuries to my arms, I couldn't uh remain on flight status
at that time. And so I became a ah
I became a aircraft or radio operator uh maintenance technician and I ran
the base ops for repairing transit aircraft uh in terms of their
communication equipment. Now you were in for a number of years after high
school and then you ultimately went back to college then, can you tell us
about that? Yes. Uh The Air Force is very good to me. They gave me my
bachelor's degree from the University of florida. Uh I majored in uh
personnel management ah later on the Air Force sent me to the Air Force
Institute Technology and I got a Master's degree and Industrial Management
at that time. So I have everything to thank the Air Force for in terms of
my uh college training. Now you were stationed throughout the United
States as well as in Alaska that have an opportunity to visit virtually
all the States here. When I first got my commission as a as a pilot, I
flew the Upper East course of of the the United States and I flew from
base to base to base making communication inspections, trying to make sure
that all of their uh
instrument let down procedures and so forth. We're all up to date and
correctly allied I guess at one time or another I touched every base in
the northeast section of the United States. A lot of people go a lifetime
and never get all the way through the United States. Like I think I had
all the States except five. That's wonderful. Now then you became an
officer and you remained in that role. And uh even to the time that you
came to A S. U. So tell us about your arrival here and what what what
caused you to come to A S. U. Well I was assigned by the Air Force as the
Air Force plant representative at Aerojet general corporation in
California. And in keeping with the Air Force tradition of three year
assignments uh after I had served their three years I was scheduled for a
change and at the Air Force wanted to ah
send me to Washington D. C. To the pentagon. I'd already served one tour
up there at the Air Force Systems Command. And that was not a favorite
spot for me to take daughters into because of the local environment. So I
decided I'd retire. So I put in for retirement and I retired in 1971
at at at that time I was Air Force plant representative uh correction. I
was the heir professor of aerospace science here at as you. And the
interesting little tidbit about that when when you report into a vase you
always make a protocol visit to the commander or your commander. And when
I reported in here I felt I should do the same here. So I made an
appointment with john swallow who was at the time, the president of the
university. I went over and I when I scheduled appointment I said it'll
only take about two or three minutes for me to go in and introduce myself
and and
I'll be through. So anyway when I got over there we got to talking and I
found out that he had served in the Air Force and the greater captain in
the Philippines and he liked to reminisce about his experience of the Air
force. So we sent instead of five minutes, well over an hour just talking
to each other about the service. So in 1971 then you became a professor of
aerospace studies. Tell me a little bit about the department that existed
at that time. How many staff did you and students. First we were located,
we were located in Old Main on the third floor and I had myself and three
other officers in the detachment and I had 3 3 enlisted personnel. And
then you had a number of students that that you gave classes to during
that time period. We gave classes and I solicited professors from the
other departments come over and give lectures to us because of the nature
of our curriculum. It pretty much met the needs of all of them in terms of
talking about their own disciplines. It was an interesting
in addition to our core and the cadets got a good kick out of it. So you
had three years of that that service and then uh you decided to finally
retire from the Air Force. Uh at the end of that, is that correct? Yes.
When they wanted to send me the pentagon, I said no, I don't think so. So
I saw it. Others, other ways of earning a living ah through a friend of
mine, I I got offered a job with the uh
bank in sacramento. And as a trust officer, Managing the uh
real estate that they had in trust? Mm hmm. At about the same time ASU is
advertising for a position. And I decided, well what the heck the pay was
about the same and it would save me the move from here to California. So I
I applied for the position and with the intervention of one of our A. S. U.
Uh my Arizona State University. Retired Associate members. Zeke Cruise. I
was selected to go into the the the position ah I went into, I was hired
to be a risk management officer for the university. But uh
that was not to be because the uh physical plant guy that had a guy that
was temporarily serving that didn't want to give up the the the position
nor the person. And
Gilbert Katie ah offered me the position and I negotiated a uh uh contract
with him and went to work in the personnel department. So you were working
with Hank Coble back at that time? Yes. Hank was my boss at that time and
I had the ah
benefits and compensation section. And uh until hank died, that's the
position that I served in. I did a number of special studies for hank in
terms of how to handle personnel situation since personnel was my major.
And but when he passed away ah Jack Pennock who is then the President of
the Vice President of business affairs offered the position to me and I
went to work for Jack as director of personnel. Okay. As director of
personnel. What were some of the major challenges that you faced? Well,
first of all this that everyday mundane multitude of tasks that personnel
involved, having the pay payroll section in there, you always have payroll
problems, having the responsibility for all of the staff personnel, you
have plenty of problems just keeping up with the staff. As the university
grew the staff was changing and people would be leaving one department and
looking for a job and another and that was one of my major tasks when I
knew that somebody was going to be freed up in one department. I started
looking around and made recommendations as to where they had fit someplace
else. So all of the staff hiring kind of came through your your department
then we did all of the advertising for staff replacements. We had nothing
to do with faculty except furnishing them with a benefit structure and the
pay. That's good. You know, faculty like to have their pay. Of course.
Yeah. Yeah we paid paid them and we also furnished them with the benefits.
Yeah. Now you were involved with the classification system back at that
time. Yes that was one of the I guess most challenging portions of the job
was making sure that a position in one department got the same
classification as a position in another department. If they had the same
duties and responsibilities.
And of course, normally a person who in charge was in charge of the
department wanted the most for their people and you were fighting between
them uh to say, well if I give you that upward upgrading classification,
I'm going to be facing upgrades in about 48 other departments and I don't
think I can do that. In fact, that was one of the chief challenges that I
had with paige Mulholland, which was the provost about that time paige
wanted his gal to be uh upgraded to the same grade as linda was in uh the
faculty side. And finally I told paige that the only way that I would
upgrade her was if I would do a audit of all of the other similar
positions in the university. And if I found any that matched her, I'd give
her appointment to that grade. But I also upgrade any that was below that
grade in the other departments page. And I didn't always see eye to eye.
But it was interesting challenge. I remember one day in uh Jack pinnacles
office page came in and he was lodging a complaint about my not giving him
what he wanted in terms of classification. And I told him, I said, look
page, as long as you will find all of the positions that I find in that
same category, I will do your re classification. But you're gonna have to
fund it out of your money because nobody around here has any money to give
and he walked out in a huff. And about that time, Jack Pennock said to me
, he said he was kind of rough on him, wasn't it? But it was fun. That
that's the nature that I had occurred all during my service group. This
must have been a major challenge because how, how large was the university
back at that time? Well, As I recall, the university had about 19,000
students and about 700 faculty members. Uh and of course since that time
is just doubled and doubled and doubled. Yes, it has. Yeah. So I also
understand that when we were talking one time you mentioned something
about trying to coordinate the classification among three universities
with that must have been when we talk about classification. One of the big
things that was notable was the fact that we had a classification system
that gave certain grades to certain positions. The U. Of A had one and
they gave different grades to the same type of people and as well as
University of North North Arizona. So the border bridge, it's got this
bright idea that they wanted to create one classification
System for all three universities, which was a stupid thing, what they
wanted to try and Betsy Bayliss was put in charge of it. So,
representatives from each of the three universities met and tried to come
up with a common classification system. What was the problem was when
University of Arizona went to hire a janitor or yard, they had a uh
pool of people down there that would work for a very cheap rage being
close to the border. And we had the same type of positions and we had to
pay more because we're rather sophisticated environment around here. And
the same thing went to uh University of North Northern Arizona University
because they had a special list of people who with the living expenses
being a little higher up there had to demand more. So trying to get three
universities together and have a common classification never worked. And
finally everybody gave up. I see. Well now you mentioned earlier your
daughter's in passing, you said that you chose not to leave a s you to
accept a job at the pentagon. Tell me a little bit about your your family
and your your daughter's. Well, Gene, my first wife accompanied me to ah
Tempe Arizona As well as two of my daughters.
My oldest daughter, she came here and actually started to work for a issue
when she first got here. But later gave it up when she married a doctor.
Uh after being here for a short while Joanne, my number two daughter came
here from California after we arrived since she had a position over there
and she didn't want to leave until she lost that position. And she came
over here and actually she went to university and got a doctor, I got a
bachelor's degree and counseling and later on got her master's degree in
counseling uh while she was here she met a young man in the counseling
program and they got married and he was the son of
mr Northam who ran tri city air conditioning And uh mike after he
graduated from college, went to work for his father and never put his
training to practice except in part time basis in
offering assistance to various offices around the value where they were
doing counseling. Ah
I recall one time not too many months ago that we had a special luncheon
celebration for all that you had done. And all three of your daughters
were there as well as your wife jan is the daughter still live here in
this area? Ah My youngest daughter Tracy uh accompanied us over here from
California and she later married and an interesting thing about my three
daughters, each of them got married. Each of them had two kids. Each of
them had one boy and one girl and all of them said that's it.
Do you have any great grandchildren? Let's see I've got
1234566
now. Wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah well you're blessed to have them all close
by. That's that's great. They are they sometimes that's a blessing and
sometimes it's a handicap. We'll assume it's now it's dad, will you help
me on this? Oh I'm sure they enjoy that and I'm sure I'm sure it's it's
more of a blessing than anything else. What what year didn't then did you
retire of as Director of personnel from A as well? Like I came here in 71
as a professor of aerospace science. I retired from there in 74 after the
Air Force wanted to send me to the pentagon and then I went to work for A
. S. U. And I retired from A. S. U. In 1984. I purposely stayed 10 years.
So as to get normal retirement out of the state retirement system. Well
for all that you knew about benefits and everything, I'm sure that you
planned that very well. So now after you retired, I know that you became
very active in the A. S. U. Retirees association and tell us a little bit
about the major contributions you made there.
one of the things that I liked about my job compensation and benefits was
my involvement within the benefit programs. When I first moved into the
department, I noticed that A. S. You did not have representation on the
state uh personnel board. So I petition for membership and got it. And so
I started going to the state personnel board meetings and looking after
the interests of A. S. You through them. I also participated with the
benefits office downtown by helping write the open enrollment brochures
for benefits? Ah
as a representative from a shoe. Uh huh.
Now I recall that many years running, you would offer these seminars for
people that were trying to make a decision about their benefits. But prior
to that, you even helped in writing the document that that everybody
received, telling what their potential audience would be. I did that even
while as I was an active employee and you continue that afterwards, after
I retired from the issue, I continued my association with the benefits uh
office because I I received an appointment by the Arizona state retirement
system to serve as the insurance representative for the association. In
that capacity I attended the meetings downtown. I helped write the manuals
when the manuals were published to everybody. I offered my services to
give counseling sessions and uh explaining the various aspects of the
programs to our membership. Interesting one year I had four counseling
sessions and about 60 people at each one of the counseling sessions.
Eventually when they started keeping the programs the same. Uh the
attendance dropped off and at one counseling session I had one person.
Well I know that's a that's a major decision that a lot of people have to
make every year for their their health benefits. And so I'm sure that it
was well appreciated by all those people that attended, even that one
person that attended with the last session. It's it's interesting that you
have to look at the programs completely because even though they may only
change slightly, what has changed might influence your bit of your
decision to go with this program or going with a different program And
understanding those little niceties was one of the chief channels
challenges of giving the little seminars that I put on out of all of your
accomplishments, both as an employee and as a retiree and activity with
the retirees association. What do you think are some of the things that
gave you the greatest amount of satisfaction Dick, I think serving as the
the person who looked after the staff people while I was employed, making
sure that they got a fair shot in all of the ramifications of the
university and making sure that they become aware of changes in the
compensation and benefits section, I always could figure figure that I
would say the a staff person that was the champion for them. In fact, upon
my decision to retire, I went into Zathras office who who was the vice
president for business affairs at the time and told him that when I
retired he was going to have to assume the task of being the staff person
to look after the staff. That page had had the factly side as well as the
offices in which linda participated. And so's after had to assume that
role for staff people. And I believe he actually took that to heart and
did try to do that. Now from the time you came until we sat here today,
we're looking at over 40 years of exposure to s you, what, what are some
of the changes that you've seen in the institution and from the time you
came until until now? Well, first of all, the biggest change is its
increase inside. But the second thing that I think is most notable is its
expansion to offsite places. Uh,
I looked at the creation of the east campus, the west campus and
everything as a real major step forward in order to provide services
closer to the home of a large number of people. And while they were
specialized sections like the East willie detachment, uh, there was still
a lot of people who wanted that type of training because there were, there
was technology all, all the out in that area.
So in addition to your involvement with the retirees association, what,
what are some of the other things that you've been active in during your
retirement years? Well, I had to take to say this, but I tried to become
an investor and that doesn't work out. Uh Although the one year that I had
to follow an income tax form, Including my investments, I did make $500
Or $5,000 out of the investment. And when I went into investment, I first
started buying and selling little stocks, but then I went into currency
and that's where I made my $5000.
Uh, I for one didn't know anything about currencies. So I sought out and
became a member of a expert advisor who made all my investments for me and
closed me out and put me in. And fortunately he was good enough to win
most of the time. That's good. That's good. If you were talking to a young
person that was thinking about a staff position at at A. S. U. Uh is there
any advice that you might give that person?
Well I think I'd say hey get out there, put it in and put your best foot
forward. But don't tell fibs and
make sure that you uh answer the questions that your interviewer puts to
you in an honest straightforward way. You should research what the
position is, what it requires and how it matches with your capabilities.
But it's a good place to work. All you gotta do is pay attention and pull
your share of the load. Over the years you've had contact with a lot of
people at a. S. U. Are there any individuals that that stand out in your
memory as special people that you worked with? One person? I didn't work
with. But I found to be really a good acquaintance was charlie long in
purchasing charlie was active with retirees and after we all retired
charlie was the one that assumed the task of calling dinner meetings with
everybody and we had a lot of people that would show up and some of the
notable that were members of the thing was Jack Pinnock and also ah
let's see Jack Pinnock and of course charlie long and
uh huh. So these were all retirees that at this time there were all
retirees. And uh so this is kind of an opportunity for all of you to get
back together and it was a wonderful chance to get back and renew
acquaintances and swap yards and find out what other people were doing. We
held our uh meetings sometimes out at the steakhouse next to the river
here uh or the have been over Montes that money is, we had two or three
there and uh when we had it at money and we could always count on frank
kush showing up. He liked his steaks.
Well are there any other things that you would like to tell us about? Dick
? I kind of asked you a number of special things, but are there any other
things that occurred either throughout your lifetime or through your
exposure to a S. U. Or your time here or with the retirees association
that anything that we might that you might want to cover with us?
Well not not much of anything. I think I've rambled on long enough. Uh I
can truthfully say that I enjoyed my post Air force retirement years, I
enjoyed my post uh S. U. Retirement years by my involvement with the
association. Uh I would encourage any retiree who is not now a member to
join because it is a wonderful experience to keep track of everything and
make sure that you have a chance to meet old friends and new acquaintances.
Well Dick we we appreciate all that you did not only as an employee of
the university but also as a retiree and as a friend and we we deeply
appreciate your being here today. We also appreciate the volunteer staff,
roger carter, dave shots, lee and linda vance coy that are all here
helping to make this possible. So we thank you very very much and we wish
you well and uh huh keep active with our organization. We were delighted
to have you as part of it. Well I apologize for Mation Falling silent here
and there. But the old brain at 90 years of age is beginning to lag behind
sometimes. I I think I think it went very well and it was it was an honor
and a privilege to be able to interview you this morning and thank you so
much.
Okay I we still have the camera running. I wanted to ask your I'm sorry I
sit over there next to him. I won't have you in the shop but you can look
over this way.
Um I wonder Dick if you would, you were involved in kind of a retiree's
organization with charlie long after you retired. But then from 84 to 91
when a. S. U. R. A. Was formed,
you might talk about some of your experiences, some of the people in A. S
. U. R. A. Who really made things happen. Um
George Morel. Mhm. Well let me just leave that question. George barrel is
a very special friend and I initially met George through charlie long and
I became more acquainted with him after joining the A. S. U. R. A. Uh
of favorite story of mine for George. It's uh when I bought my new house
with my second wife ah which is something we didn't cover by the way. Uh
I had four citrus trees planted.
Uh One of the citrus trees was grapefruit and George and his wife love
grapefruit. And so I used to bring a bag of great food into the
association meetings and let people take them. George got me aside one day
and said you know I took a couple of your grapefruit home and they were
the sweetest grapefruit I've ever had. And I believe Dave you also comment
on and they are still the sweetest grapefruit that they is unfortunately
with the laugh lack of rain that we've been having. The fruit are rather
small and high piss level this year, but
I leave more of the tree until they turn pink and then I cut him open and
juice. Um And so even if they're small, they're still good Dick. You
mentioned uh something that we forgot to talk about and that was your your
second wife. And I believe she was an employee of a S. U. As well. Yes. Uh
when we came here my first name named wife Jean died of cancer. She had uh
multiple myeloma. She was treated by dr Sidney Salman at the University of
Arizona. He uh was when I took her down there to meet him, he made special
arrangements to uh to make arrangements for our appointments. And uh being
a research scientist, he would take blown mirror from her and cultivate it
And put various medicines in the cultivations and find out which one works
the best. So she came down in 89 and she retired in About 10 years later
which was considered a long time for multiple myeloma at that time. They
said that multiple myeloma, Life expectancy uh depending upon the degree
at which it was found. It was about six years. So she had a long
experience after that. Ah So then after that you you met Jan yeah Jan was
the secretary to the provost of the Controller. And since we had a lot of
business doing with them in terms of pay and uh so forth why I always
walked in and there she sat out of outside of steve Kobe's office
steve
the controller jerry Snyder. No this is before jerry Snyder. Mhm. I can't
I can't recall his name. I'm sorry you called me,
Was it cold be something like that. Anyway uh she walked in and I'd always
say hello to her and she says, hey, have you heard? And I said heard what
? And she had tell me a joke. So we both sat there and laugh. Well after
my first wife passed away, I was still going in and getting my annual
dosage of jokes and uh we started then having dinner over at the emu
together. And one thing led to another and I asked her to marry me and she
agreed. Uh and so we got married. So you've been doubly blessed? Yes, you
have. I've been more than doubly best in terms of pay because I get Air
force pay, I draw state pay and I draw source of security pay. So between
them all, I don't have too much worries about funds. That's good. I think
maybe dave shots. We had some additional questions that he wanted to ask
you. Well, a little more on the retirees association just getting started
and I know you were in it from the beginning.
Any notables through that period that you were active
with the organization? Well, as you know, uh at that time I was out of it
when it first started, I was not an employee at that time. I was retiring.
Uh Susan Malaga who is then direct our personnel or whatever the do
talent is. Uh she was active in formulating the thing with George Morel
and also with
uh
bob Brown and so between the three of them they got it rolling and Brown
was influential in making sure that s you got some benefits uh from the,
the thing as well as furnishing them with certain assistance such as the
office is over here. Mhm.
Back to your coming to a S. U. You were over in California, administering
contracts in the aerospace industry. Then comes a new assignment. Did you
have any context here? What brought you to Arizona? Just chance that you
came to Tempe or did you know something? Well, one of the things when I,
when I found out they wanted to send me to the pentagon, I had a pentagon
contact in Colonel's assignment division and I told him, I said, hey, you
got a nice division but I don't want to go up there. And so I said, what
I'd like is to go someplace else. So in the meantime I had seen a notice
of
the Air Force warning, Professor of Aerospace studies at the various
universities around the countryside. Initially I looked for a university
that was close to an Air force installation because I enjoyed the Air
force benefits that you get from an Air force such as uh health
care and commissary and food service and so forth. Uh I initially looked
at University of texas
but somebody else was assigned there. So then I looked and I saw that
willie was right around the corner from here as well as luke. So I said,
hey I'll see if I can swing that deal. So I call my friend back up and I
said, hey, this is where I'd like to go. And he swung the deal for me.
Okay, let me see
back to your Air Force career. I'm not sure what went on in the first
interview, but you spend a lot of time in purchasing and contracts. Could
you talk about some of the notable contracts maybe that you administered
in the Air Force? Well,
I, I administered a lot of different contracts. I was the base procurement
officer for Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany And our office service
headquarters, 12th Air Force and at that time the base was under contract
maintenance contract And I negotiated and awarded that contract. Now that
was about a $5 million dollar contract for taking care of the base. I also
serviced 12th Air Force into buying all of their equipment supplies,
machines, paper pencils, whatever. Uh, in terms of my duties at Aerojet,
General Corporation, we administered contracts for the army and the navy,
uh, Nasa, mm hmm.
Air Force, the Air Force contract was primarily for propellant for the
space programs And all of those contracts were up in the $25 million
dollar bracket. Uh I remember one instances where the contractor put in
for a change in the contract and submitted a proposal and The change in
the contract was going to be about $5 million. And I had a staff of
production specialists who did analysis for me and they came up and they
said that's a little rich for what they're accomplishing. Their learning
curve should be steeper than that. So I went in negotiations with the
contractor and tried to get him to come down on his own after we talked
for many weeks about what was the proper price. I finally had a meeting
with him. I said, look, we're getting nowhere. I'm not going to give in.
You're apparently not going to go in. We're about $5 million $2
million dollars apart. Let's split it and forget this. So we did.
Hmm. Yeah. Well I remember you spent a lot of time with phone calls uh in
A. S. U. R. A. With people who had questions on their health insurance.
And one of the famous quotes that Dick had in the prime times when he
wrote his article was people should take advantage of their own thought
process. In other words, I started thinking, well one of the ways I looked
at the position of the Air Force of the insurance advisor for the
association was hey, if you're not available to people, they're not going
to get benefits. So I always gave my telephone number so they could call
me personally at home. And boy I tell you they made advantage of it. Uh
every time we had an open enrollment, I spent half my life on the
telephone at home because people who did not come to the sessions would
call me at home and have one particular little question that had, so I had
to answer that, but it was a lot of fun and I made a lot of friends that
way source. I remember you telling me one time that if people had only
read the document, there wouldn't have been nearly as many phone calls.
That's correct. One of my favorite expressions on any session that I gave
was, do you know the agency that is providing you with your services, Is
it the benefits office of A. D. O. A. Or is it the Arabs force retirement
? The Arizona state retirement, Arizona state retirement system and then
say gee, I don't know. And I said, one thing you can do is you can call up
the benefits office on a. D. O. A. And asked them if you are a member of
their club and if they say no, then you know, you're in the other and I
said, once you find out, write it on a piece of paper, stick it on your
refrigerator and leave it there for next year. So I don't get a call next
year.
That's good. Anything else? You mentioned a music scholarship that you
didn't take, weren't able to take advantage of what music areas interest
from the 6th grade
to the graduation. I played the french horn in both the band and the
orchestra. Okay, marching band, classical band, classical music.
And the fact is there was two of us that was another french horn player by
the name of western fletcher. He and I sat beside each other for those six
years. And when everything was over and I decided to go in the Air force.
He had already gone into the Air force out of University of south Carolina.
And interestingly enough, he became a pilot. I became a pilot. He became
a pilot that was noteworthy. I became a jockey and he went to europe, flew
P 50 one's and P 40 seven's. He was shot down. Uh he was taken in by a
dutch family and he played the part of a uh deaf and dumb, mute son and
eventually why they got him into the underground and moved him back to
England and he came home And he was really a mad guy because in the first
tour of duty, 50 missions, he flew over there, he shot down four planes.
The reason he signed up for the 2nd 50 missions was to get one more plane
to become an ace. He didn't get a single plane.
So he was really mad. But he and I came from the same hometown. He went
back there, bought a cottage on the beach, bought a boat and lived the
life of Riley sounds good, Sounds good. Any other questions Well again, we
thank you so much Dick for your time and we thank you so much for your
time. And thank you for all that. I hope back that I didn't stumble too
much. Not at all. You're quick. You got anymore questions. Dave. Probably
do as soon as we get up, but we usually get more juicy stuff after we turn
the camera off about some juicy stuff. I don't want, you don't know what
you mean by juicy stuff. I told you a couple of juicy ones in there about
how Page and I got along and
what I didn't say is that one reason that I was anxious to retire was that
Zephyr and I did not get along at all. Uh
I
to put it mildly, I hated his guts. And uh
when when I decided I was going to retire to get out of the environment,
uh I knew that I would have to have a replacement. So I went to the Vice
President and I said would you serve on a interview board for the director
of personnel position When I advertise it, they all agreed. And that's
when I invited Susan Malaga to come down. They all in interviewed her,
thought she was a wonderful choice and hired her. And I says one thing
about it, if you're the interviewer and you select a person, you're stuck
with that person, you can't complain later.
Jack Pennock was a retired colonel. So I guess you had something in common
with him. I guess he was an army. Retired colonel. Jack Panic, pardon?
Jack Panic. He was retired colonel also. Yeah, Hank was a retired colonel
. I was a retired colonel. There was a retired colonel over in languages
and literature. I forget his name. But he was an interesting guy. He had a
house with a garage that was twice as big as his house and he collected
ford
1956. Is it where they had a little tour car with the window, circular
window in it? Thunderbird, Thunderbird, Thunderbird, Thunderbird. He
collected those things and he had about four in there that two or three
which he had completely restored and he had traveled all over the country
when he would find one and get it, hold it back, put it in his garage.
That's great a story I heard on victor's Afro was somebody went through
on an interview and they were in his office and he had a model of an
airplane Air Force plane on his credenza
and asked why he had that. He said, well I was in the Office of Management
and Budget and I killed that. I killed that program. He was bragging about
killing this, this plane development.
Yeah, that was staff for us.
And the sad thing is that he went back up there.
Yeah. And became an influence in that thing.
Okay, Alright, nick, thank you very much enjoyed visiting with you thismorning