WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:05.417 brigades into. So we're even so mine's broken. Alright, well I could loan 00:00:05.450 --> 00:00:09.947 you one of mine 00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:13.406 cameras rolling. 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:18.907 Hello, today is february 29th 2012 and we're conducting another interview 00:00:18.940 --> 00:00:22.936 for the Arizona State University retirees Association Video history 00:00:22.969 --> 00:00:28.197 project. We're located today in the A. S. U. Community Services building 00:00:28.230 --> 00:00:33.287 and uh I should introduce myself. I'm Elmer Gooding and we have technical 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:38.167 staff here today consisting of roger carter who will be doing the camera 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:42.366 work as well as the audio and we have dave shots lee who will be our 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.946 director for today. And of course in attendance is linda Vance coy, the 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:53.726 chair of our issue or a video history project. So all these volunteers are 00:00:53.759 --> 00:01:00.116 here today to interview a very special person and I would like to have our 00:01:00.149 --> 00:01:03.826 special person introduced himself today. So if you'll tell us who you are 00:01:03.859 --> 00:01:10.137 and yes, I'm Richard, J. Marauder, Colonel, United States Air Force 00:01:10.170 --> 00:01:17.406 Retired. And I've been invited to give a presentation here this morning. 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:23.607 I'm really not sure what all I can add to uh the history of A. S you but 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:29.637 I'll do it my best. Well, Dick, we think that the university is made up of 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:32.486 a lot of special people and of course you're one of those special people 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:38.587 and the whole history of the university is tied to you and all the other 00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:42.617 people that make up the university. So what we'd like to do first is have 00:01:42.650 --> 00:01:47.766 you tell us a little bit about your early childhood and growing up and 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:51.367 then we'll go on from there. Ultimately we'll talk more about a issue. But 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:56.197 let's, let's learn more about you first. Well, first of all I was born in 00:01:56.230 --> 00:02:02.626 a little community called J florida, which was just across the borderline 00:02:02.659 --> 00:02:10.527 to Brewton Alabama. At the age of three. My mother and I uh, moved to 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:17.117 Brandon florida and I attended schools in Manatee County until I graduated 00:02:17.150 --> 00:02:23.707 from high school in the Brandon High School. That was in 1940. 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:27.207 Uh, I 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:33.707 was scheduled to have a music scholarship at Alder Auburn University, but 00:02:33.740 --> 00:02:41.406 unfortunately their funds were cut and there went my uh, 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:47.186 my scholarship to Auburn University. I started looking around for other 00:02:47.219 --> 00:02:53.077 opportunities and I noticed that at the time there was a lot of talk about 00:02:53.110 --> 00:02:59.527 creating a draft because of the World War. Uh, to that was going on and I 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:03.876 didn't want to get caught into a draft. So I decided I would enlist in the 00:03:03.909 --> 00:03:10.797 Air Corps, which I did. It took me several attempts in Tampa florida for 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:16.506 them to find out that I could go out to Macdill Air Force Base and get 00:03:16.539 --> 00:03:24.539 enlisted. Uh, I enlisted and served as a crew chief on communications on 00:03:27.849 --> 00:03:35.106 B17 with the 49th Bomb Group 00:03:35.139 --> 00:03:40.647 december the seventh. Unfortunately not only did the Japs attacked Pearl 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.707 Harbor, but I attacked it another car and had an automobile wreck, which 00:03:45.740 --> 00:03:53.186 broke both arms due to that accident. I couldn't go with my crew when they 00:03:53.219 --> 00:04:01.219 took a long range uh cross country to South America because as they got 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:07.506 down to the amazon why? They went down in the amazon? 00:04:07.539 --> 00:04:14.506 The crew and the aircraft was later recovered. So everything worked out. 00:04:14.539 --> 00:04:19.306 All right. Uh 00:04:19.339 --> 00:04:24.707 So what was it like in the Army Air Corps at the time? You, you enlisted? 00:04:24.740 --> 00:04:28.017 It was the Army Air Corps at that time. Right before they yes, it was the 00:04:28.050 --> 00:04:33.507 Army Air Corps and 00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:40.106 It didn't become actually the United States Air Force until 1947. 00:04:40.139 --> 00:04:45.736 At which time it was made a separate service. Uh 00:04:45.769 --> 00:04:51.726 I had a long and varied career in the Air Force. I served in almost all 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:57.777 capacities that they had to offer. After being commissioned out of docs in 00:04:57.810 --> 00:05:05.087 Miami Beach In 1943, I applied for flight training and went to flight 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:09.606 training and got my wings. Uh huh. 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:15.337 What what aircraft did you did you fly? Well, I started off flying a B. O 00:05:15.370 --> 00:05:23.370 . B 17, not be 17 as charlie 47 and then I had a little uh 21 years is 00:05:26.189 --> 00:05:33.666 asking for a while And then finally I moved into a B- 25. I flew a B- 25 00:05:33.699 --> 00:05:39.137 up until I came back to the states. I flew up in Alaska on the aleutian 00:05:39.170 --> 00:05:45.176 island chain, which is an experience all by itself. It was one thing that 00:05:45.209 --> 00:05:49.397 kind of turned me off of flying because you didn't go anyplace up there 00:05:49.430 --> 00:05:55.926 without running into a front and I've been flying through a front one time 00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:01.096 and the icing on my wings became so heavy that I was thinking I was gonna 00:06:01.129 --> 00:06:05.786 go into the drink. But fortunately I flew out the other side and the ice 00:06:05.819 --> 00:06:10.596 disappeared and I made it all the way into Elmendorf. There must have been 00:06:10.629 --> 00:06:13.726 a huge relief to come to the other side of that front, I would guess. Yeah 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:20.116 , it is not a place you want to go down in because the water up there, you 00:06:20.149 --> 00:06:25.176 left about three minutes and that's it. Oh my. So when you first started 00:06:25.209 --> 00:06:28.457 in the Army Air Corps, what what kind of compensation did you receive back 00:06:28.490 --> 00:06:34.087 at that time? Well when I enlisted in the Air Corps in 1940 I was a buck 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:39.467 private at $21 a month. And 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:45.986 then I went up to the chain of command in the enlisted ranks. Until when I 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:54.019 went to O. C. S at Miami Beach. I was a tech sergeant. I had become uh 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:02.877 because of my injuries to my arms, I couldn't uh remain on flight status 00:07:02.910 --> 00:07:10.910 at that time. And so I became a ah 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:20.839 I became a aircraft or radio operator uh maintenance technician and I ran 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:29.496 the base ops for repairing transit aircraft uh in terms of their 00:07:29.529 --> 00:07:34.687 communication equipment. Now you were in for a number of years after high 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:39.306 school and then you ultimately went back to college then, can you tell us 00:07:39.339 --> 00:07:44.627 about that? Yes. Uh The Air Force is very good to me. They gave me my 00:07:44.660 --> 00:07:51.806 bachelor's degree from the University of florida. Uh I majored in uh 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:58.156 personnel management ah later on the Air Force sent me to the Air Force 00:07:58.189 --> 00:08:04.817 Institute Technology and I got a Master's degree and Industrial Management 00:08:04.850 --> 00:08:09.697 at that time. So I have everything to thank the Air Force for in terms of 00:08:09.730 --> 00:08:16.567 my uh college training. Now you were stationed throughout the United 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:21.197 States as well as in Alaska that have an opportunity to visit virtually 00:08:21.230 --> 00:08:26.577 all the States here. When I first got my commission as a as a pilot, I 00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:33.327 flew the Upper East course of of the the United States and I flew from 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:38.067 base to base to base making communication inspections, trying to make sure 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:41.707 that all of their uh 00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:45.876 instrument let down procedures and so forth. We're all up to date and 00:08:45.909 --> 00:08:52.006 correctly allied I guess at one time or another I touched every base in 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.417 the northeast section of the United States. A lot of people go a lifetime 00:08:56.450 --> 00:08:59.287 and never get all the way through the United States. Like I think I had 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:04.417 all the States except five. That's wonderful. Now then you became an 00:09:04.450 --> 00:09:09.317 officer and you remained in that role. And uh even to the time that you 00:09:09.350 --> 00:09:14.457 came to A S. U. So tell us about your arrival here and what what what 00:09:14.490 --> 00:09:19.797 caused you to come to A S. U. Well I was assigned by the Air Force as the 00:09:19.830 --> 00:09:24.217 Air Force plant representative at Aerojet general corporation in 00:09:24.250 --> 00:09:29.766 California. And in keeping with the Air Force tradition of three year 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:35.437 assignments uh after I had served their three years I was scheduled for a 00:09:35.470 --> 00:09:43.470 change and at the Air Force wanted to ah 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:48.766 send me to Washington D. C. To the pentagon. I'd already served one tour 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:53.116 up there at the Air Force Systems Command. And that was not a favorite 00:09:53.149 --> 00:09:59.087 spot for me to take daughters into because of the local environment. So I 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:07.006 decided I'd retire. So I put in for retirement and I retired in 1971 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:14.707 at at at that time I was Air Force plant representative uh correction. I 00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:20.396 was the heir professor of aerospace science here at as you. And the 00:10:20.429 --> 00:10:26.376 interesting little tidbit about that when when you report into a vase you 00:10:26.409 --> 00:10:32.006 always make a protocol visit to the commander or your commander. And when 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:35.986 I reported in here I felt I should do the same here. So I made an 00:10:36.019 --> 00:10:40.937 appointment with john swallow who was at the time, the president of the 00:10:40.970 --> 00:10:45.276 university. I went over and I when I scheduled appointment I said it'll 00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:49.986 only take about two or three minutes for me to go in and introduce myself 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:53.407 and and 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:58.427 I'll be through. So anyway when I got over there we got to talking and I 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:02.967 found out that he had served in the Air Force and the greater captain in 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:08.006 the Philippines and he liked to reminisce about his experience of the Air 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:14.736 force. So we sent instead of five minutes, well over an hour just talking 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:20.047 to each other about the service. So in 1971 then you became a professor of 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.217 aerospace studies. Tell me a little bit about the department that existed 00:11:24.250 --> 00:11:28.136 at that time. How many staff did you and students. First we were located, 00:11:28.169 --> 00:11:34.407 we were located in Old Main on the third floor and I had myself and three 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:42.440 other officers in the detachment and I had 3 3 enlisted personnel. And 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:51.226 then you had a number of students that that you gave classes to during 00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:59.106 that time period. We gave classes and I solicited professors from the 00:11:59.139 --> 00:12:04.026 other departments come over and give lectures to us because of the nature 00:12:04.059 --> 00:12:09.526 of our curriculum. It pretty much met the needs of all of them in terms of 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:16.506 talking about their own disciplines. It was an interesting 00:12:16.539 --> 00:12:23.746 in addition to our core and the cadets got a good kick out of it. So you 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:29.256 had three years of that that service and then uh you decided to finally 00:12:29.289 --> 00:12:32.677 retire from the Air Force. Uh at the end of that, is that correct? Yes. 00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:37.106 When they wanted to send me the pentagon, I said no, I don't think so. So 00:12:37.139 --> 00:12:44.866 I saw it. Others, other ways of earning a living ah through a friend of 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:52.899 mine, I I got offered a job with the uh 00:12:54.840 --> 00:13:02.840 bank in sacramento. And as a trust officer, Managing the uh 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:12.106 real estate that they had in trust? Mm hmm. At about the same time ASU is 00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:17.677 advertising for a position. And I decided, well what the heck the pay was 00:13:17.710 --> 00:13:24.297 about the same and it would save me the move from here to California. So I 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:32.330 I applied for the position and with the intervention of one of our A. S. U. 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:39.866 Uh my Arizona State University. Retired Associate members. Zeke Cruise. I 00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:47.899 was selected to go into the the the position ah I went into, I was hired 00:13:50.139 --> 00:13:57.307 to be a risk management officer for the university. But uh 00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:03.947 that was not to be because the uh physical plant guy that had a guy that 00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:09.407 was temporarily serving that didn't want to give up the the the position 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:12.807 nor the person. And 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:20.840 Gilbert Katie ah offered me the position and I negotiated a uh uh contract 00:14:22.929 --> 00:14:28.827 with him and went to work in the personnel department. So you were working 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:34.396 with Hank Coble back at that time? Yes. Hank was my boss at that time and 00:14:34.429 --> 00:14:38.006 I had the ah 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:46.039 benefits and compensation section. And uh until hank died, that's the 00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:54.626 position that I served in. I did a number of special studies for hank in 00:14:54.659 --> 00:15:01.606 terms of how to handle personnel situation since personnel was my major. 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:09.506 And but when he passed away ah Jack Pennock who is then the President of 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:14.657 the Vice President of business affairs offered the position to me and I 00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:19.486 went to work for Jack as director of personnel. Okay. As director of 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:24.467 personnel. What were some of the major challenges that you faced? Well, 00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:31.136 first of all this that everyday mundane multitude of tasks that personnel 00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:36.197 involved, having the pay payroll section in there, you always have payroll 00:15:36.230 --> 00:15:43.246 problems, having the responsibility for all of the staff personnel, you 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:49.047 have plenty of problems just keeping up with the staff. As the university 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:54.057 grew the staff was changing and people would be leaving one department and 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:58.537 looking for a job and another and that was one of my major tasks when I 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:02.756 knew that somebody was going to be freed up in one department. I started 00:16:02.789 --> 00:16:06.917 looking around and made recommendations as to where they had fit someplace 00:16:06.950 --> 00:16:10.827 else. So all of the staff hiring kind of came through your your department 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:16.917 then we did all of the advertising for staff replacements. We had nothing 00:16:16.950 --> 00:16:22.037 to do with faculty except furnishing them with a benefit structure and the 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:26.516 pay. That's good. You know, faculty like to have their pay. Of course. 00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:33.506 Yeah. Yeah we paid paid them and we also furnished them with the benefits. 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:39.026 Yeah. Now you were involved with the classification system back at that 00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:47.059 time. Yes that was one of the I guess most challenging portions of the job 00:16:49.019 --> 00:16:54.496 was making sure that a position in one department got the same 00:16:54.529 --> 00:16:59.486 classification as a position in another department. If they had the same 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.207 duties and responsibilities. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.677 And of course, normally a person who in charge was in charge of the 00:17:06.710 --> 00:17:11.367 department wanted the most for their people and you were fighting between 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:19.400 them uh to say, well if I give you that upward upgrading classification, 00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:25.907 I'm going to be facing upgrades in about 48 other departments and I don't 00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:31.397 think I can do that. In fact, that was one of the chief challenges that I 00:17:31.430 --> 00:17:36.657 had with paige Mulholland, which was the provost about that time paige 00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:44.690 wanted his gal to be uh upgraded to the same grade as linda was in uh the 00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:53.500 faculty side. And finally I told paige that the only way that I would 00:17:53.579 --> 00:18:01.246 upgrade her was if I would do a audit of all of the other similar 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:08.607 positions in the university. And if I found any that matched her, I'd give 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:13.976 her appointment to that grade. But I also upgrade any that was below that 00:18:14.009 --> 00:18:20.006 grade in the other departments page. And I didn't always see eye to eye. 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:25.336 But it was interesting challenge. I remember one day in uh Jack pinnacles 00:18:25.369 --> 00:18:31.806 office page came in and he was lodging a complaint about my not giving him 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.847 what he wanted in terms of classification. And I told him, I said, look 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:41.046 page, as long as you will find all of the positions that I find in that 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:47.677 same category, I will do your re classification. But you're gonna have to 00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:53.006 fund it out of your money because nobody around here has any money to give 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:58.407 and he walked out in a huff. And about that time, Jack Pennock said to me 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:03.137 , he said he was kind of rough on him, wasn't it? But it was fun. That 00:19:03.170 --> 00:19:08.397 that's the nature that I had occurred all during my service group. This 00:19:08.430 --> 00:19:11.746 must have been a major challenge because how, how large was the university 00:19:11.779 --> 00:19:19.496 back at that time? Well, As I recall, the university had about 19,000 00:19:19.529 --> 00:19:27.529 students and about 700 faculty members. Uh and of course since that time 00:19:27.630 --> 00:19:34.006 is just doubled and doubled and doubled. Yes, it has. Yeah. So I also 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.877 understand that when we were talking one time you mentioned something 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:40.336 about trying to coordinate the classification among three universities 00:19:40.369 --> 00:19:46.157 with that must have been when we talk about classification. One of the big 00:19:46.190 --> 00:19:51.347 things that was notable was the fact that we had a classification system 00:19:51.380 --> 00:19:56.597 that gave certain grades to certain positions. The U. Of A had one and 00:19:56.630 --> 00:20:01.226 they gave different grades to the same type of people and as well as 00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:08.026 University of North North Arizona. So the border bridge, it's got this 00:20:08.059 --> 00:20:13.407 bright idea that they wanted to create one classification 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:21.316 System for all three universities, which was a stupid thing, what they 00:20:21.349 --> 00:20:27.207 wanted to try and Betsy Bayliss was put in charge of it. So, 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:32.236 representatives from each of the three universities met and tried to come 00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:37.967 up with a common classification system. What was the problem was when 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:46.000 University of Arizona went to hire a janitor or yard, they had a uh 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.877 pool of people down there that would work for a very cheap rage being 00:20:50.910 --> 00:20:58.617 close to the border. And we had the same type of positions and we had to 00:20:58.650 --> 00:21:05.717 pay more because we're rather sophisticated environment around here. And 00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:13.750 the same thing went to uh University of North Northern Arizona University 00:21:13.940 --> 00:21:21.940 because they had a special list of people who with the living expenses 00:21:22.369 --> 00:21:26.937 being a little higher up there had to demand more. So trying to get three 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:32.177 universities together and have a common classification never worked. And 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:37.197 finally everybody gave up. I see. Well now you mentioned earlier your 00:21:37.230 --> 00:21:41.786 daughter's in passing, you said that you chose not to leave a s you to 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.917 accept a job at the pentagon. Tell me a little bit about your your family 00:21:45.950 --> 00:21:53.950 and your your daughter's. Well, Gene, my first wife accompanied me to ah 00:21:56.430 --> 00:22:01.947 Tempe Arizona As well as two of my daughters. 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:07.687 My oldest daughter, she came here and actually started to work for a issue 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:12.707 when she first got here. But later gave it up when she married a doctor. 00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:20.447 Uh after being here for a short while Joanne, my number two daughter came 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:28.197 here from California after we arrived since she had a position over there 00:22:28.230 --> 00:22:33.336 and she didn't want to leave until she lost that position. And she came 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:41.369 over here and actually she went to university and got a doctor, I got a 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:51.839 bachelor's degree and counseling and later on got her master's degree in 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:59.226 counseling uh while she was here she met a young man in the counseling 00:22:59.259 --> 00:23:07.259 program and they got married and he was the son of 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:14.687 mr Northam who ran tri city air conditioning And uh mike after he 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:19.907 graduated from college, went to work for his father and never put his 00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:27.940 training to practice except in part time basis in 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:34.066 offering assistance to various offices around the value where they were 00:23:34.099 --> 00:23:39.986 doing counseling. Ah 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:45.316 I recall one time not too many months ago that we had a special luncheon 00:23:45.349 --> 00:23:49.847 celebration for all that you had done. And all three of your daughters 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.697 were there as well as your wife jan is the daughter still live here in 00:23:53.730 --> 00:24:01.730 this area? Ah My youngest daughter Tracy uh accompanied us over here from 00:24:03.150 --> 00:24:10.296 California and she later married and an interesting thing about my three 00:24:10.329 --> 00:24:15.607 daughters, each of them got married. Each of them had two kids. Each of 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:22.107 them had one boy and one girl and all of them said that's it. 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:27.607 Do you have any great grandchildren? Let's see I've got 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:31.157 1234566 00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:34.877 now. Wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah well you're blessed to have them all close 00:24:34.910 --> 00:24:39.347 by. That's that's great. They are they sometimes that's a blessing and 00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:45.236 sometimes it's a handicap. We'll assume it's now it's dad, will you help 00:24:45.269 --> 00:24:49.246 me on this? Oh I'm sure they enjoy that and I'm sure I'm sure it's it's 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:54.066 more of a blessing than anything else. What what year didn't then did you 00:24:54.099 --> 00:25:00.157 retire of as Director of personnel from A as well? Like I came here in 71 00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:06.996 as a professor of aerospace science. I retired from there in 74 after the 00:25:07.029 --> 00:25:11.907 Air Force wanted to send me to the pentagon and then I went to work for A 00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:18.657 . S. U. And I retired from A. S. U. In 1984. I purposely stayed 10 years. 00:25:18.690 --> 00:25:23.127 So as to get normal retirement out of the state retirement system. Well 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.026 for all that you knew about benefits and everything, I'm sure that you 00:25:26.059 --> 00:25:32.486 planned that very well. So now after you retired, I know that you became 00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:37.246 very active in the A. S. U. Retirees association and tell us a little bit 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:42.306 about the major contributions you made there. 00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:48.877 one of the things that I liked about my job compensation and benefits was 00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:54.407 my involvement within the benefit programs. When I first moved into the 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.336 department, I noticed that A. S. You did not have representation on the 00:25:58.369 --> 00:26:06.016 state uh personnel board. So I petition for membership and got it. And so 00:26:06.049 --> 00:26:12.417 I started going to the state personnel board meetings and looking after 00:26:12.450 --> 00:26:18.407 the interests of A. S. You through them. I also participated with the 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:25.847 benefits office downtown by helping write the open enrollment brochures 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.907 for benefits? Ah 00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:36.836 as a representative from a shoe. Uh huh. 00:26:36.869 --> 00:26:42.887 Now I recall that many years running, you would offer these seminars for 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:46.167 people that were trying to make a decision about their benefits. But prior 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.336 to that, you even helped in writing the document that that everybody 00:26:49.369 --> 00:26:53.306 received, telling what their potential audience would be. I did that even 00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:58.306 while as I was an active employee and you continue that afterwards, after 00:26:58.339 --> 00:27:05.457 I retired from the issue, I continued my association with the benefits uh 00:27:05.490 --> 00:27:10.806 office because I I received an appointment by the Arizona state retirement 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:16.387 system to serve as the insurance representative for the association. In 00:27:16.420 --> 00:27:24.326 that capacity I attended the meetings downtown. I helped write the manuals 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:29.397 when the manuals were published to everybody. I offered my services to 00:27:29.430 --> 00:27:36.667 give counseling sessions and uh explaining the various aspects of the 00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:42.347 programs to our membership. Interesting one year I had four counseling 00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:48.107 sessions and about 60 people at each one of the counseling sessions. 00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:53.836 Eventually when they started keeping the programs the same. Uh the 00:27:53.869 --> 00:27:59.907 attendance dropped off and at one counseling session I had one person. 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.967 Well I know that's a that's a major decision that a lot of people have to 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.806 make every year for their their health benefits. And so I'm sure that it 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.657 was well appreciated by all those people that attended, even that one 00:28:11.690 --> 00:28:17.296 person that attended with the last session. It's it's interesting that you 00:28:17.329 --> 00:28:23.226 have to look at the programs completely because even though they may only 00:28:23.259 --> 00:28:28.367 change slightly, what has changed might influence your bit of your 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:33.736 decision to go with this program or going with a different program And 00:28:33.769 --> 00:28:39.127 understanding those little niceties was one of the chief channels 00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:45.697 challenges of giving the little seminars that I put on out of all of your 00:28:45.730 --> 00:28:50.756 accomplishments, both as an employee and as a retiree and activity with 00:28:50.789 --> 00:28:54.667 the retirees association. What do you think are some of the things that 00:28:54.700 --> 00:29:02.207 gave you the greatest amount of satisfaction Dick, I think serving as the 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:09.026 the person who looked after the staff people while I was employed, making 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:15.437 sure that they got a fair shot in all of the ramifications of the 00:29:15.470 --> 00:29:20.437 university and making sure that they become aware of changes in the 00:29:20.470 --> 00:29:26.457 compensation and benefits section, I always could figure figure that I 00:29:26.490 --> 00:29:32.806 would say the a staff person that was the champion for them. In fact, upon 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:39.546 my decision to retire, I went into Zathras office who who was the vice 00:29:39.579 --> 00:29:44.607 president for business affairs at the time and told him that when I 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:52.296 retired he was going to have to assume the task of being the staff person 00:29:52.329 --> 00:30:00.329 to look after the staff. That page had had the factly side as well as the 00:30:03.049 --> 00:30:09.786 offices in which linda participated. And so's after had to assume that 00:30:09.819 --> 00:30:15.707 role for staff people. And I believe he actually took that to heart and 00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:22.117 did try to do that. Now from the time you came until we sat here today, 00:30:22.150 --> 00:30:29.036 we're looking at over 40 years of exposure to s you, what, what are some 00:30:29.069 --> 00:30:32.387 of the changes that you've seen in the institution and from the time you 00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:37.836 came until until now? Well, first of all, the biggest change is its 00:30:37.869 --> 00:30:45.137 increase inside. But the second thing that I think is most notable is its 00:30:45.170 --> 00:30:52.006 expansion to offsite places. Uh, 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.016 I looked at the creation of the east campus, the west campus and 00:30:56.049 --> 00:31:01.326 everything as a real major step forward in order to provide services 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:07.107 closer to the home of a large number of people. And while they were 00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:14.617 specialized sections like the East willie detachment, uh, there was still 00:31:14.650 --> 00:31:19.847 a lot of people who wanted that type of training because there were, there 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:24.806 was technology all, all the out in that area. 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.887 So in addition to your involvement with the retirees association, what, 00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.967 what are some of the other things that you've been active in during your 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:40.000 retirement years? Well, I had to take to say this, but I tried to become 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:48.519 an investor and that doesn't work out. Uh Although the one year that I had 00:31:48.549 --> 00:31:56.306 to follow an income tax form, Including my investments, I did make $500 00:31:56.339 --> 00:32:03.816 Or $5,000 out of the investment. And when I went into investment, I first 00:32:03.849 --> 00:32:09.427 started buying and selling little stocks, but then I went into currency 00:32:09.460 --> 00:32:14.407 and that's where I made my $5000. 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:22.207 Uh, I for one didn't know anything about currencies. So I sought out and 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:28.957 became a member of a expert advisor who made all my investments for me and 00:32:28.990 --> 00:32:33.647 closed me out and put me in. And fortunately he was good enough to win 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:39.736 most of the time. That's good. That's good. If you were talking to a young 00:32:39.769 --> 00:32:44.576 person that was thinking about a staff position at at A. S. U. Uh is there 00:32:44.609 --> 00:32:48.907 any advice that you might give that person? 00:32:48.940 --> 00:32:56.167 Well I think I'd say hey get out there, put it in and put your best foot 00:32:56.200 --> 00:33:02.207 forward. But don't tell fibs and 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.986 make sure that you uh answer the questions that your interviewer puts to 00:33:08.019 --> 00:33:12.927 you in an honest straightforward way. You should research what the 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:19.407 position is, what it requires and how it matches with your capabilities. 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:25.117 But it's a good place to work. All you gotta do is pay attention and pull 00:33:25.150 --> 00:33:31.036 your share of the load. Over the years you've had contact with a lot of 00:33:31.069 --> 00:33:35.627 people at a. S. U. Are there any individuals that that stand out in your 00:33:35.660 --> 00:33:40.806 memory as special people that you worked with? One person? I didn't work 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:46.707 with. But I found to be really a good acquaintance was charlie long in 00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:54.177 purchasing charlie was active with retirees and after we all retired 00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:59.917 charlie was the one that assumed the task of calling dinner meetings with 00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:05.417 everybody and we had a lot of people that would show up and some of the 00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:13.450 notable that were members of the thing was Jack Pinnock and also ah 00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:25.807 let's see Jack Pinnock and of course charlie long and 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:32.236 uh huh. So these were all retirees that at this time there were all 00:34:32.269 --> 00:34:37.356 retirees. And uh so this is kind of an opportunity for all of you to get 00:34:37.389 --> 00:34:41.407 back together and it was a wonderful chance to get back and renew 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:47.307 acquaintances and swap yards and find out what other people were doing. We 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:54.736 held our uh meetings sometimes out at the steakhouse next to the river 00:34:54.769 --> 00:35:02.769 here uh or the have been over Montes that money is, we had two or three 00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:11.486 there and uh when we had it at money and we could always count on frank 00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:16.807 kush showing up. He liked his steaks. 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.706 Well are there any other things that you would like to tell us about? Dick 00:35:20.739 --> 00:35:25.307 ? I kind of asked you a number of special things, but are there any other 00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:29.416 things that occurred either throughout your lifetime or through your 00:35:29.449 --> 00:35:33.947 exposure to a S. U. Or your time here or with the retirees association 00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:40.307 that anything that we might that you might want to cover with us? 00:35:40.340 --> 00:35:46.267 Well not not much of anything. I think I've rambled on long enough. Uh I 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:53.166 can truthfully say that I enjoyed my post Air force retirement years, I 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:59.887 enjoyed my post uh S. U. Retirement years by my involvement with the 00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:07.920 association. Uh I would encourage any retiree who is not now a member to 00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:15.497 join because it is a wonderful experience to keep track of everything and 00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:21.157 make sure that you have a chance to meet old friends and new acquaintances. 00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:25.657 Well Dick we we appreciate all that you did not only as an employee of 00:36:25.690 --> 00:36:30.706 the university but also as a retiree and as a friend and we we deeply 00:36:30.739 --> 00:36:35.867 appreciate your being here today. We also appreciate the volunteer staff, 00:36:35.900 --> 00:36:40.006 roger carter, dave shots, lee and linda vance coy that are all here 00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:44.706 helping to make this possible. So we thank you very very much and we wish 00:36:44.739 --> 00:36:50.077 you well and uh huh keep active with our organization. We were delighted 00:36:50.110 --> 00:36:55.657 to have you as part of it. Well I apologize for Mation Falling silent here 00:36:55.690 --> 00:37:01.816 and there. But the old brain at 90 years of age is beginning to lag behind 00:37:01.849 --> 00:37:06.057 sometimes. I I think I think it went very well and it was it was an honor 00:37:06.090 --> 00:37:09.486 and a privilege to be able to interview you this morning and thank you so 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:11.697 much. 00:37:11.730 --> 00:37:19.730 Okay I we still have the camera running. I wanted to ask your I'm sorry I 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:27.347 sit over there next to him. I won't have you in the shop but you can look 00:37:27.380 --> 00:37:31.197 over this way. 00:37:31.230 --> 00:37:36.166 Um I wonder Dick if you would, you were involved in kind of a retiree's 00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:44.199 organization with charlie long after you retired. But then from 84 to 91 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:48.697 when a. S. U. R. A. Was formed, 00:37:48.730 --> 00:37:54.177 you might talk about some of your experiences, some of the people in A. S 00:37:54.210 --> 00:38:00.287 . U. R. A. Who really made things happen. Um 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:07.376 George Morel. Mhm. Well let me just leave that question. George barrel is 00:38:07.409 --> 00:38:15.409 a very special friend and I initially met George through charlie long and 00:38:16.730 --> 00:38:24.730 I became more acquainted with him after joining the A. S. U. R. A. Uh 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:33.887 of favorite story of mine for George. It's uh when I bought my new house 00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:41.920 with my second wife ah which is something we didn't cover by the way. Uh 00:38:43.219 --> 00:38:48.186 I had four citrus trees planted. 00:38:48.219 --> 00:38:54.177 Uh One of the citrus trees was grapefruit and George and his wife love 00:38:54.210 --> 00:39:00.497 grapefruit. And so I used to bring a bag of great food into the 00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:06.247 association meetings and let people take them. George got me aside one day 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:10.427 and said you know I took a couple of your grapefruit home and they were 00:39:10.460 --> 00:39:16.097 the sweetest grapefruit I've ever had. And I believe Dave you also comment 00:39:16.130 --> 00:39:23.236 on and they are still the sweetest grapefruit that they is unfortunately 00:39:23.269 --> 00:39:27.456 with the laugh lack of rain that we've been having. The fruit are rather 00:39:27.489 --> 00:39:34.287 small and high piss level this year, but 00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:41.986 I leave more of the tree until they turn pink and then I cut him open and 00:39:42.019 --> 00:39:48.046 juice. Um And so even if they're small, they're still good Dick. You 00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:52.456 mentioned uh something that we forgot to talk about and that was your your 00:39:52.489 --> 00:39:58.586 second wife. And I believe she was an employee of a S. U. As well. Yes. Uh 00:39:58.619 --> 00:40:06.256 when we came here my first name named wife Jean died of cancer. She had uh 00:40:06.289 --> 00:40:12.736 multiple myeloma. She was treated by dr Sidney Salman at the University of 00:40:12.769 --> 00:40:20.416 Arizona. He uh was when I took her down there to meet him, he made special 00:40:20.449 --> 00:40:28.449 arrangements to uh to make arrangements for our appointments. And uh being 00:40:28.449 --> 00:40:36.449 a research scientist, he would take blown mirror from her and cultivate it 00:40:38.110 --> 00:40:43.956 And put various medicines in the cultivations and find out which one works 00:40:43.989 --> 00:40:51.989 the best. So she came down in 89 and she retired in About 10 years later 00:40:54.469 --> 00:41:00.756 which was considered a long time for multiple myeloma at that time. They 00:41:00.789 --> 00:41:07.247 said that multiple myeloma, Life expectancy uh depending upon the degree 00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:13.517 at which it was found. It was about six years. So she had a long 00:41:13.550 --> 00:41:21.550 experience after that. Ah So then after that you you met Jan yeah Jan was 00:41:22.070 --> 00:41:29.807 the secretary to the provost of the Controller. And since we had a lot of 00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:36.767 business doing with them in terms of pay and uh so forth why I always 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:44.800 walked in and there she sat out of outside of steve Kobe's office 00:41:45.909 --> 00:41:48.876 steve 00:41:48.909 --> 00:41:56.909 the controller jerry Snyder. No this is before jerry Snyder. Mhm. I can't 00:41:57.610 --> 00:42:02.586 I can't recall his name. I'm sorry you called me, 00:42:02.619 --> 00:42:10.447 Was it cold be something like that. Anyway uh she walked in and I'd always 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:14.416 say hello to her and she says, hey, have you heard? And I said heard what 00:42:14.449 --> 00:42:19.896 ? And she had tell me a joke. So we both sat there and laugh. Well after 00:42:19.929 --> 00:42:26.416 my first wife passed away, I was still going in and getting my annual 00:42:26.449 --> 00:42:33.427 dosage of jokes and uh we started then having dinner over at the emu 00:42:33.460 --> 00:42:39.166 together. And one thing led to another and I asked her to marry me and she 00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:46.077 agreed. Uh and so we got married. So you've been doubly blessed? Yes, you 00:42:46.110 --> 00:42:53.626 have. I've been more than doubly best in terms of pay because I get Air 00:42:53.659 --> 00:43:01.659 force pay, I draw state pay and I draw source of security pay. So between 00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:06.606 them all, I don't have too much worries about funds. That's good. I think 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:10.117 maybe dave shots. We had some additional questions that he wanted to ask 00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:15.447 you. Well, a little more on the retirees association just getting started 00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:20.137 and I know you were in it from the beginning. 00:43:20.170 --> 00:43:26.367 Any notables through that period that you were active 00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:33.827 with the organization? Well, as you know, uh at that time I was out of it 00:43:33.860 --> 00:43:40.166 when it first started, I was not an employee at that time. I was retiring. 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:47.956 Uh Susan Malaga who is then direct our personnel or whatever the do 00:43:47.989 --> 00:43:55.767 talent is. Uh she was active in formulating the thing with George Morel 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:01.256 and also with 00:44:01.289 --> 00:44:05.267 uh 00:44:05.300 --> 00:44:10.916 bob Brown and so between the three of them they got it rolling and Brown 00:44:10.949 --> 00:44:18.307 was influential in making sure that s you got some benefits uh from the, 00:44:18.340 --> 00:44:24.186 the thing as well as furnishing them with certain assistance such as the 00:44:24.219 --> 00:44:29.316 office is over here. Mhm. 00:44:29.349 --> 00:44:35.316 Back to your coming to a S. U. You were over in California, administering 00:44:35.349 --> 00:44:42.387 contracts in the aerospace industry. Then comes a new assignment. Did you 00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:48.597 have any context here? What brought you to Arizona? Just chance that you 00:44:48.630 --> 00:44:55.256 came to Tempe or did you know something? Well, one of the things when I, 00:44:55.289 --> 00:44:59.657 when I found out they wanted to send me to the pentagon, I had a pentagon 00:44:59.690 --> 00:45:06.296 contact in Colonel's assignment division and I told him, I said, hey, you 00:45:06.329 --> 00:45:10.706 got a nice division but I don't want to go up there. And so I said, what 00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:18.657 I'd like is to go someplace else. So in the meantime I had seen a notice 00:45:18.690 --> 00:45:21.456 of 00:45:21.489 --> 00:45:25.436 the Air Force warning, Professor of Aerospace studies at the various 00:45:25.469 --> 00:45:31.236 universities around the countryside. Initially I looked for a university 00:45:31.269 --> 00:45:35.557 that was close to an Air force installation because I enjoyed the Air 00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:43.356 force benefits that you get from an Air force such as uh health 00:45:43.389 --> 00:45:51.057 care and commissary and food service and so forth. Uh I initially looked 00:45:51.090 --> 00:45:54.956 at University of texas 00:45:54.989 --> 00:45:59.657 but somebody else was assigned there. So then I looked and I saw that 00:45:59.690 --> 00:46:04.097 willie was right around the corner from here as well as luke. So I said, 00:46:04.130 --> 00:46:09.646 hey I'll see if I can swing that deal. So I call my friend back up and I 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:17.679 said, hey, this is where I'd like to go. And he swung the deal for me. 00:46:19.579 --> 00:46:23.296 Okay, let me see 00:46:23.329 --> 00:46:27.157 back to your Air Force career. I'm not sure what went on in the first 00:46:27.190 --> 00:46:34.497 interview, but you spend a lot of time in purchasing and contracts. Could 00:46:34.530 --> 00:46:39.336 you talk about some of the notable contracts maybe that you administered 00:46:39.369 --> 00:46:45.447 in the Air Force? Well, 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:52.577 I, I administered a lot of different contracts. I was the base procurement 00:46:52.610 --> 00:46:58.686 officer for Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany And our office service 00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:06.037 headquarters, 12th Air Force and at that time the base was under contract 00:47:06.070 --> 00:47:12.106 maintenance contract And I negotiated and awarded that contract. Now that 00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:17.106 was about a $5 million dollar contract for taking care of the base. I also 00:47:17.139 --> 00:47:24.146 serviced 12th Air Force into buying all of their equipment supplies, 00:47:24.179 --> 00:47:32.179 machines, paper pencils, whatever. Uh, in terms of my duties at Aerojet, 00:47:32.630 --> 00:47:38.247 General Corporation, we administered contracts for the army and the navy, 00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:42.646 uh, Nasa, mm hmm. 00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:50.679 Air Force, the Air Force contract was primarily for propellant for the 00:47:51.389 --> 00:47:57.256 space programs And all of those contracts were up in the $25 million 00:47:57.289 --> 00:48:05.289 dollar bracket. Uh I remember one instances where the contractor put in 00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:14.239 for a change in the contract and submitted a proposal and The change in 00:48:14.750 --> 00:48:21.296 the contract was going to be about $5 million. And I had a staff of 00:48:21.329 --> 00:48:28.186 production specialists who did analysis for me and they came up and they 00:48:28.219 --> 00:48:32.537 said that's a little rich for what they're accomplishing. Their learning 00:48:32.570 --> 00:48:38.137 curve should be steeper than that. So I went in negotiations with the 00:48:38.170 --> 00:48:44.387 contractor and tried to get him to come down on his own after we talked 00:48:44.420 --> 00:48:50.537 for many weeks about what was the proper price. I finally had a meeting 00:48:50.570 --> 00:48:54.537 with him. I said, look, we're getting nowhere. I'm not going to give in. 00:48:54.570 --> 00:49:01.106 You're apparently not going to go in. We're about $5 million $2 00:49:01.139 --> 00:49:08.537 million dollars apart. Let's split it and forget this. So we did. 00:49:08.570 --> 00:49:15.287 Hmm. Yeah. Well I remember you spent a lot of time with phone calls uh in 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:21.646 A. S. U. R. A. With people who had questions on their health insurance. 00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:27.267 And one of the famous quotes that Dick had in the prime times when he 00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:32.537 wrote his article was people should take advantage of their own thought 00:49:32.570 --> 00:49:40.570 process. In other words, I started thinking, well one of the ways I looked 00:49:40.780 --> 00:49:45.077 at the position of the Air Force of the insurance advisor for the 00:49:45.110 --> 00:49:50.517 association was hey, if you're not available to people, they're not going 00:49:50.550 --> 00:49:55.947 to get benefits. So I always gave my telephone number so they could call 00:49:55.980 --> 00:50:02.586 me personally at home. And boy I tell you they made advantage of it. Uh 00:50:02.619 --> 00:50:06.727 every time we had an open enrollment, I spent half my life on the 00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:12.046 telephone at home because people who did not come to the sessions would 00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:16.026 call me at home and have one particular little question that had, so I had 00:50:16.059 --> 00:50:20.387 to answer that, but it was a lot of fun and I made a lot of friends that 00:50:20.420 --> 00:50:26.876 way source. I remember you telling me one time that if people had only 00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:29.787 read the document, there wouldn't have been nearly as many phone calls. 00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:36.506 That's correct. One of my favorite expressions on any session that I gave 00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:42.836 was, do you know the agency that is providing you with your services, Is 00:50:42.869 --> 00:50:50.526 it the benefits office of A. D. O. A. Or is it the Arabs force retirement 00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:57.247 ? The Arizona state retirement, Arizona state retirement system and then 00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:03.637 say gee, I don't know. And I said, one thing you can do is you can call up 00:51:03.670 --> 00:51:09.586 the benefits office on a. D. O. A. And asked them if you are a member of 00:51:09.619 --> 00:51:14.756 their club and if they say no, then you know, you're in the other and I 00:51:14.789 --> 00:51:20.097 said, once you find out, write it on a piece of paper, stick it on your 00:51:20.130 --> 00:51:24.916 refrigerator and leave it there for next year. So I don't get a call next 00:51:24.949 --> 00:51:29.227 year. 00:51:29.260 --> 00:51:34.447 That's good. Anything else? You mentioned a music scholarship that you 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:39.046 didn't take, weren't able to take advantage of what music areas interest 00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.827 from the 6th grade 00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:49.876 to the graduation. I played the french horn in both the band and the 00:51:49.909 --> 00:51:57.909 orchestra. Okay, marching band, classical band, classical music. 00:51:58.449 --> 00:52:04.767 And the fact is there was two of us that was another french horn player by 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:09.526 the name of western fletcher. He and I sat beside each other for those six 00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:16.367 years. And when everything was over and I decided to go in the Air force. 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:24.017 He had already gone into the Air force out of University of south Carolina. 00:52:24.050 --> 00:52:30.447 And interestingly enough, he became a pilot. I became a pilot. He became 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:38.480 a pilot that was noteworthy. I became a jockey and he went to europe, flew 00:52:38.630 --> 00:52:46.630 P 50 one's and P 40 seven's. He was shot down. Uh he was taken in by a 00:52:47.650 --> 00:52:55.650 dutch family and he played the part of a uh deaf and dumb, mute son and 00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:01.467 eventually why they got him into the underground and moved him back to 00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:09.500 England and he came home And he was really a mad guy because in the first 00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:15.927 tour of duty, 50 missions, he flew over there, he shot down four planes. 00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:21.217 The reason he signed up for the 2nd 50 missions was to get one more plane 00:53:21.250 --> 00:53:27.816 to become an ace. He didn't get a single plane. 00:53:27.849 --> 00:53:34.646 So he was really mad. But he and I came from the same hometown. He went 00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:39.486 back there, bought a cottage on the beach, bought a boat and lived the 00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:46.356 life of Riley sounds good, Sounds good. Any other questions Well again, we 00:53:46.389 --> 00:53:49.916 thank you so much Dick for your time and we thank you so much for your 00:53:49.949 --> 00:53:55.066 time. And thank you for all that. I hope back that I didn't stumble too 00:53:55.099 --> 00:54:01.517 much. Not at all. You're quick. You got anymore questions. Dave. Probably 00:54:01.550 --> 00:54:07.856 do as soon as we get up, but we usually get more juicy stuff after we turn 00:54:07.889 --> 00:54:14.037 the camera off about some juicy stuff. I don't want, you don't know what 00:54:14.070 --> 00:54:19.646 you mean by juicy stuff. I told you a couple of juicy ones in there about 00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:26.106 how Page and I got along and 00:54:26.139 --> 00:54:30.887 what I didn't say is that one reason that I was anxious to retire was that 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:37.017 Zephyr and I did not get along at all. Uh 00:54:37.050 --> 00:54:39.407 I 00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:46.506 to put it mildly, I hated his guts. And uh 00:54:46.539 --> 00:54:51.807 when when I decided I was going to retire to get out of the environment, 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:58.186 uh I knew that I would have to have a replacement. So I went to the Vice 00:54:58.219 --> 00:55:04.416 President and I said would you serve on a interview board for the director 00:55:04.449 --> 00:55:09.407 of personnel position When I advertise it, they all agreed. And that's 00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:15.677 when I invited Susan Malaga to come down. They all in interviewed her, 00:55:15.710 --> 00:55:21.626 thought she was a wonderful choice and hired her. And I says one thing 00:55:21.659 --> 00:55:26.876 about it, if you're the interviewer and you select a person, you're stuck 00:55:26.909 --> 00:55:30.977 with that person, you can't complain later. 00:55:31.010 --> 00:55:35.336 Jack Pennock was a retired colonel. So I guess you had something in common 00:55:35.369 --> 00:55:40.396 with him. I guess he was an army. Retired colonel. Jack Panic, pardon? 00:55:40.429 --> 00:55:46.977 Jack Panic. He was retired colonel also. Yeah, Hank was a retired colonel 00:55:47.010 --> 00:55:53.006 . I was a retired colonel. There was a retired colonel over in languages 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:58.566 and literature. I forget his name. But he was an interesting guy. He had a 00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:05.396 house with a garage that was twice as big as his house and he collected 00:56:05.429 --> 00:56:07.597 ford 00:56:07.630 --> 00:56:13.956 1956. Is it where they had a little tour car with the window, circular 00:56:13.989 --> 00:56:19.467 window in it? Thunderbird, Thunderbird, Thunderbird, Thunderbird. He 00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:23.057 collected those things and he had about four in there that two or three 00:56:23.090 --> 00:56:27.677 which he had completely restored and he had traveled all over the country 00:56:27.710 --> 00:56:32.827 when he would find one and get it, hold it back, put it in his garage. 00:56:32.860 --> 00:56:38.617 That's great a story I heard on victor's Afro was somebody went through 00:56:38.650 --> 00:56:43.456 on an interview and they were in his office and he had a model of an 00:56:43.489 --> 00:56:47.697 airplane Air Force plane on his credenza 00:56:47.730 --> 00:56:53.486 and asked why he had that. He said, well I was in the Office of Management 00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:58.387 and Budget and I killed that. I killed that program. He was bragging about 00:56:58.420 --> 00:57:03.606 killing this, this plane development. 00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:08.097 Yeah, that was staff for us. 00:57:08.130 --> 00:57:12.597 And the sad thing is that he went back up there. 00:57:12.630 --> 00:57:18.396 Yeah. And became an influence in that thing. 00:57:18.429 --> 00:57:25.469 Okay, Alright, nick, thank you very much enjoyed visiting with you thismorning