WEBVTT 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:05.827 Good morning, we're here with dr Betty Gray House from uh issue. She was 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:09.437 , she was a professor emeritus of the college of Education at Arizona 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:15.086 State University. Um Betty I'd like to start today and talk first about 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.366 your family. I'd like people to get to know you from. Not just a issue but 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:22.857 what grounded you in in your profession. So tell me a little bit about 00:00:22.890 --> 00:00:26.436 your family, where you were born and raised. Well to most people's 00:00:26.469 --> 00:00:33.717 surprise, I was born in Mesa, a small town of Mesa and my mother, father 00:00:33.750 --> 00:00:40.696 and brothers and sisters. We moved to phoenix before kindergarten. But 00:00:40.729 --> 00:00:48.037 however, I always remember that if we were going to visit my father's 00:00:48.070 --> 00:00:55.207 relatives in Mesa once we moved to phoenix we would pack a lunch 00:00:55.240 --> 00:01:03.240 and it would take us about an hour in my father's old forward model t ford 00:01:04.609 --> 00:01:09.686 to get there, it would take one whole hour so we would go and we would 00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:15.846 visit eat and then we would drive back, it would take one whole day. So 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:20.617 I'm amazed when I started at A. S. U. And we just went across the freeway 00:01:20.650 --> 00:01:28.650 and there we were. But yeah, I uh have a large family lived in Mesa 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:35.477 Hemphill's Harris's and so forth and 00:01:35.510 --> 00:01:40.076 I went to elementary school in phoenix. Matter of fact Phoenix # one 00:01:40.109 --> 00:01:48.109 School District at that time it was racially segregated. 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:55.796 So I went to a segregated high school and the interesting the high school 00:01:55.829 --> 00:02:01.647 that I had went to visit what's carver high school but interesting enough 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:09.267 . I chose to go to phoenix, Union high which was open And available one 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:17.300 year before the 1950 for Board of Education Topeka Kansas Decision. But 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:22.666 you asked me about what really kind of turned me onto the field of 00:02:22.699 --> 00:02:30.699 education? Well my mother focus was religious and my father's focus was 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:37.816 education. He always stressed how important education was. And in fact I 00:02:37.849 --> 00:02:42.106 can remember the large tablets, 00:02:42.139 --> 00:02:48.707 they were red on the front and uh he would work with us on those tablets. 00:02:48.740 --> 00:02:55.737 And so I went to Dunbar Elementary School named after the Black Poet. 00:02:55.770 --> 00:03:02.686 Then I went to mary McLeod, Bethune named after one of the black educators 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:07.307 from Bethune Cook School 00:03:07.340 --> 00:03:14.077 and I had great teachers. I actually, the teachers were, they cared about 00:03:14.110 --> 00:03:21.577 you, they got to know the families And by the time I was eight I knew I 00:03:21.610 --> 00:03:28.506 wanted to be a teacher And the deciding factor was my 3rd grade teacher. 00:03:28.539 --> 00:03:32.106 Her name was Eddie johnson 00:03:32.139 --> 00:03:40.139 and at that point I decided she was so passionate about what she was doing 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.876 and with us kids. She, she never got tired. It just didn't seem as though 00:03:44.909 --> 00:03:49.967 she got tired. She was always interested in us. So at that point I decided 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:57.906 I wanted to be a teacher and of course my family supported that and 00:03:57.939 --> 00:04:04.707 getting married early in life before I even got my b a 00:04:04.740 --> 00:04:12.457 uh my in laws. So I had support coming from both sides, my family and my 00:04:12.490 --> 00:04:20.490 husband's family. And so that had a lot to do with my academic success. 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:27.796 The large families on both sides and being so much ah in support of you 00:04:27.829 --> 00:04:32.616 getting an education, You went to phoenix college then for the first two 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:39.736 years. Oh yes, yes, economically that made a lot of sense. Also it was 00:04:39.769 --> 00:04:44.406 closer to where we lived 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:47.507 and the academic 00:04:47.540 --> 00:04:53.416 two years there at Phoenix College at that time was really a university 00:04:53.449 --> 00:04:59.906 prep Liberal Arts two years and 00:04:59.939 --> 00:05:03.457 I was really excited about it. And there I also had some good teachers, 00:05:03.490 --> 00:05:06.767 outstanding teachers. 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.207 I had, I will never forget one teacher, 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:18.470 his name was dr Goff, he was from texas and he had a texas accent. 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:20.639 Outstanding teacher. He wouldn't teach us. Ask us, okay, when did the 00:05:23.899 --> 00:05:29.926 civil war start? When did it in? He would pose questions like what if the 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:37.959 south had won the war write an essay on what it would be like, how things 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:41.007 would be different. 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:49.040 And uh he was interesting in a lot of ways being from texas at that time 00:05:49.339 --> 00:05:55.476 you would not have or I would not have expected the kind of support I 00:05:55.509 --> 00:06:01.926 received. In fact he nominated me without telling me for a social science 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:09.959 award, the very Gibson award. I didn't know anything about it. And I did 00:06:10.899 --> 00:06:17.286 get it. And so that helped me financially come to a. S. U. To complete uh 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:23.806 let's see a year and a half. Mhm. So it was exciting. I have met some 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:28.806 wonderful teachers all the way through. 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:32.897 Um When you came it was already university. When you came to issue it 00:06:32.930 --> 00:06:35.707 switched 1959. 00:06:35.740 --> 00:06:42.277 Yeah. Yes. It it was a small university. Yes. And you went right into 00:06:42.310 --> 00:06:45.616 education. Did you go straight through and get your B. A. And then your 00:06:45.649 --> 00:06:51.286 doctorate? Well what happened? I came here, I was really interested in 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:56.246 social science and history. I just absolutely loved it after dr golf and 00:06:56.279 --> 00:07:01.837 many of the other social science teachers. But by the time I finished my 00:07:01.870 --> 00:07:09.246 history major, they were saying that uh there was a surplus of history 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.306 teachers 00:07:12.339 --> 00:07:19.306 see now, although I was raised in a segregated society, 00:07:19.339 --> 00:07:24.546 my family and my friends did not push 00:07:24.579 --> 00:07:32.579 the negative side of the segregation. And so when they said surplus and I 00:07:33.379 --> 00:07:39.476 will never forget this when they said surplus, I switched. They don't have 00:07:39.509 --> 00:07:43.746 a surplus of black teachers. But but when they said surplus of history 00:07:43.779 --> 00:07:47.906 teachers, I switched to elementary 00:07:47.939 --> 00:07:55.197 and later on I kind of laughed about that because the data, it was not the 00:07:55.230 --> 00:08:00.207 same for people of color that it was for uh the people that were teaching 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.007 at that time. 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.426 Is that when you switch then you switched, I switched into elementary 00:08:06.459 --> 00:08:12.017 education. Did you teach? Yes. I taught seven years in the same district 00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:17.286 that I went to school. In fact I graduated from a issue with my 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:21.106 undergraduate degree in 1963. 00:08:21.139 --> 00:08:28.767 And at that time There were only two school districts in the phoenix 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:35.907 metropolitan area that would hire african americans. And also at that time 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:42.827 my sister, who was two years younger, she also graduated at the same time 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:49.766 , So she was hired by the Roosevelt District and I was hired for Phoenix # 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:55.657 one where we went to school And so I taught in the Phoenix Elementary 00:08:55.690 --> 00:09:01.606 School District for seven years, then I took a leave 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:05.827 and that's when he went back then to get your doctor. Yes, because I 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:13.356 acquired my masters as I was teaching and uh while teaching elementary 00:09:13.389 --> 00:09:20.106 school, see I always wanted to impact or make 00:09:20.139 --> 00:09:26.297 motivate kids to go to school. And so I used to think about it every year 00:09:26.330 --> 00:09:33.177 , I'm working with about 30 students and then after a while I started 00:09:33.210 --> 00:09:40.317 thinking, you know, if I could prepare teachers to be the best that they 00:09:40.350 --> 00:09:46.577 could be, then my impact would be greater. And so I started working on a 00:09:46.610 --> 00:09:54.006 PhD so that I could help people learn to be great teachers, 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:59.146 I'm gonna stop you guys just for 1/2. Okay, so that we know exactly what 00:09:59.179 --> 00:10:05.256 you're what you're going to say. Okay, thank you. Well thank you, I wanted 00:10:05.289 --> 00:10:08.106 to turn out as 00:10:08.139 --> 00:10:14.207 okay, anytime you guys ready. Okay, that's Let's back up and ask you about 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.506 your doctorate, you've got your doctorate in 1972. Can you tell me about 00:10:18.539 --> 00:10:26.539 that? Yes, I did at that time I took the L. S. A. T. And I also took the 00:10:27.610 --> 00:10:33.207 Millers analogy. And so I applied for 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:36.307 a degree in and psychic 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:44.340 and then I switched to a PhD in education with a concentration of human 00:10:44.929 --> 00:10:52.929 development because at that time I thought understanding Children and how 00:10:53.250 --> 00:11:00.886 they develop is actually the foundation for how you select and what you 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:06.827 select to teach them and when you select to teach them. And so I chose to 00:11:06.860 --> 00:11:12.807 go into human development in education. Yes. 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:17.337 What did you do after your doctrine? Well, after my doctorate is very 00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:24.407 interesting. I completed my doctorate in the summer of 1972 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:31.506 and A. S. U. College of Education was recruiting 00:11:31.539 --> 00:11:38.407 faculty. one of the positions was in human development actually child 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:42.817 development. So I applied, 00:11:42.850 --> 00:11:50.547 I applied and I remember saying something because I knew the faculty that 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.407 were on the recruitment 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:59.207 are the search committee. And so I felt very comfortable with them because 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:07.240 many of them had been my teachers and so I remember saying, but you know 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:14.106 why pay someone to come here when here I am and you've done a good job of 00:12:14.139 --> 00:12:20.006 preparing me so hire me. And so it kind of worked out that way they did. 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.657 That's right. How long was it before you then went to Harvard Harvard to 00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:28.307 do their management program, 00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:35.136 let me think about that Harvard management program that came along much 00:12:35.169 --> 00:12:40.886 later before that I went to a bren mar leadership program while I was at A. 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:46.667 S. U. I was division director director of curriculum and and instruction 00:12:46.700 --> 00:12:54.700 in the College of Education. And that year the dean, Gladys johnston, 00:12:55.340 --> 00:13:00.427 what's the dean at that time recommended me and a couple of other people 00:13:00.460 --> 00:13:05.437 to go to BRyn Mawr to a leadership conference. This one focused primarily 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:13.470 on women leaders and uh that was very exciting the way that they handled 00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:19.106 that. And I met women administrators, deans and department chairs and so 00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:24.207 forth from across the United 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.516 States. Uh then you also went to the American Association of State 00:13:27.549 --> 00:13:31.026 Colleges Leadership Academy, You've had a lot of experience in building 00:13:31.059 --> 00:13:37.307 your leadership skills. Oh yes. And it's really interesting 00:13:37.340 --> 00:13:40.506 though, Carmen 00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:48.539 O'brien who was the assistant chair person for dr robert strong department 00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:56.006 chair was a person who recommended me for my first leadership position. 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:00.636 And even though I loved working with adults and people and collaborating 00:14:00.669 --> 00:14:07.606 with them, I really was focusing primarily on helping 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:12.707 teachers. So, but they recommended me. So I said oh I'll try it. So my 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:17.797 first leadership position was assistant chair in the Department of 00:14:17.830 --> 00:14:25.830 Elementary Education. What was it like to teach a issue at that 00:14:26.139 --> 00:14:32.547 time? It was really Really, it was an exciting thing in one way because 00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:38.506 the students, many of the students had never 00:14:38.539 --> 00:14:43.197 had a teacher that did not come from the same background that most of the 00:14:43.230 --> 00:14:50.207 students came from, they were primarily. And uh 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:54.896 sometimes I was the first african american teacher they had and being the 00:14:54.929 --> 00:15:01.846 way that I am, I come in early prepare and then I'll sit and wait on my 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.106 students and often they thought I was a student, 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:13.707 they couldn't imagine that I was going to be there professor. 00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:17.646 And so after a while it turned out to be very interesting and they were 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:22.707 very supportive, extremely supportive. They just had not been accustomed 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:29.376 to having a professor that was african american because at that time in 00:15:29.409 --> 00:15:32.307 the College of Education, 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:36.986 as I recall, there were just two other african americans and they were 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:39.307 male. 00:15:39.340 --> 00:15:47.340 So it was an interesting time and uh, I enjoyed it because of the way we 00:15:49.830 --> 00:15:54.516 work with students at that time. Every professor in the elementary 00:15:54.549 --> 00:16:00.917 education advised some of the students who were majoring in elementary 00:16:00.950 --> 00:16:07.427 education from the time they left liberal arts until they graduated from 00:16:07.460 --> 00:16:12.606 the department College of Ed. And so we worked with those students, not 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:20.639 just in two years of classes, We also advise them and often advisement did 00:16:20.669 --> 00:16:26.266 not just stay in the academic arena. They would also share other kinds of 00:16:26.299 --> 00:16:32.006 experiences and you had a chance to motivate to support to make 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:39.606 recommendations and it made it far more interesting 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:45.067 and it allowed teachers or assistant professors to have a greater impact 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:49.937 because they didn't just see the student in the class. But I also 00:16:49.970 --> 00:16:56.457 supervise student teachers and that was a great experience to 00:16:56.490 --> 00:17:04.490 yes out in the field, out in the field and 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:10.066 one of the exciting things about the department when I was teaching was 00:17:10.099 --> 00:17:17.006 that the Department of Education was one of the first, 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.157 the Department of Education. Elementary ad at A. S. U. Was one of the 00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:26.707 first to start what we called outreach programs. 00:17:26.740 --> 00:17:31.496 We had one in Chandler, we had one in phoenix number one, we had one in 00:17:31.529 --> 00:17:37.316 the Roosevelt district and I'm talking very early early and our courses 00:17:37.349 --> 00:17:42.887 would be offered in the school district and the students would interact 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:50.920 and observe and teach in elementary classrooms. That was that was before 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:56.937 in kate. The National Council of Accreditation of Teacher Education even 00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:00.996 recommended it. I don't think I understand what the outreach program was. 00:18:01.029 --> 00:18:07.177 The outreach programs where you reach out and you work with 00:18:07.210 --> 00:18:09.276 superintendents, 00:18:09.309 --> 00:18:13.707 elementary school teachers 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:20.816 in helping you and you helping them better prepare a group of students 00:18:20.849 --> 00:18:28.849 that plan to be teachers rather than driving from a. S. U. To south 00:18:29.069 --> 00:18:36.236 phoenix in the Roosevelt district, the students drove two, the Roosevelt 00:18:36.269 --> 00:18:43.076 district and all of their classes were there everything was there. And so 00:18:43.109 --> 00:18:47.506 they felt they were a part of it and they had a chance to really learn 00:18:47.539 --> 00:18:53.607 what teaching was about rather than 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:59.417 trying to visualize it based on what I told them. So they were out there 00:18:59.450 --> 00:19:04.857 and they were doing it and it was a great experience for us professors as 00:19:04.890 --> 00:19:12.407 well as the students and the teachers really, they really appreciated it. 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:16.316 So all the students, the little ones, the students from the college. Oh 00:19:16.349 --> 00:19:24.226 yes. In fact, I had some students from the Roosevelt program come to my 00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:29.536 grandma and my retirement. 00:19:29.569 --> 00:19:34.066 That's great. That's great. Do you have Children that teach? Do you have 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:38.016 Children that went into education? Uh None of my Children went into 00:19:38.049 --> 00:19:41.907 education. In fact, 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:46.917 all of my Children, I have three sons. They went to college, one went to 00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:52.806 New Mexico State of Las Cruces And two went to the University of Arizona. 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:58.717 One got a degree in social science and the other one got a business 00:19:58.750 --> 00:20:02.687 degree in marketing. 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:10.226 Absolutely, yes. And my uh it was interesting though, I asked my youngest 00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:14.766 son one time, you know, since he had a degree in social science that why 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:20.276 didn't he go into coaching or teaching at the elementary or the high 00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:24.657 school level, he would have to pick up the subject matter. And so he 00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:27.107 inquired 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:34.506 and he called me and he said, mom, we can't live on what teachers make. 00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:42.539 That's what he told. So that was the end of his explorations. 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:49.266 I see that you that you went to Africa have been involved in projects in 00:20:49.299 --> 00:20:54.867 Africa. Can you tell us about that? Well, in Africa we had women's 00:20:54.900 --> 00:21:02.900 programs and this was after Title nine in the United States and after all 00:21:03.819 --> 00:21:10.407 of the programs that gave women rights, so that the women program in 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:18.440 Africa. We went and we lectured uh two of my friends dr Arlene Metha and 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:23.597 dr Dean Web. We went to the women's programs and we lectured and 00:21:23.630 --> 00:21:29.207 participated in workshops and many of the women that attended the 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:34.127 conference, they were from Africa and many other countries and it was 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:41.127 amazing you got to see and hear firsthand, how shall we say advanced the 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:47.476 United States was at that time in comparison to those countries in their 00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:54.306 uh treatment of women, professional women also. 00:21:54.339 --> 00:22:01.086 And by the way, at A. S. U. There were very few professional 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:05.506 administrators that were females. 00:22:05.539 --> 00:22:12.707 You changed that, didn't you? Well it's it helped. Mhm. 00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:16.107 Um 00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:18.847 I was just looking at all these different things that you've done, you've 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.207 written extensively um 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:28.127 the mainly training uh published training for teachers training. Is that 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:32.647 what you mainly, I focus first, I focused on Children and how they 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:38.296 developed my department chair and the chair of my doctoral committee with 00:22:38.329 --> 00:22:45.407 dr roberts trump and his background was in its psych and human development. 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:53.440 And so our focus there was a cadre of doctoral students. Our focus was on 00:22:55.140 --> 00:23:00.576 factors that influence how kids succeed in school and one was working with 00:23:00.609 --> 00:23:04.806 their families, working with parents, another was working with 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:12.707 grandparents. And so some of my first work dealt with working with parents 00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:19.207 of low income kids in the Matthew Henson project. That was my first study 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:26.867 and the topic of my dissertation and we published that. We also replicated 00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:34.147 that study almost at the same time in uh school in Tempe. That was 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:41.597 primarily uh hispanic or shall we say mexican since that were coming from 00:23:41.630 --> 00:23:47.907 Mexico and not cuba or someplace. And so 00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:52.806 we duplicated it and it was amazing how working with parents in their 00:23:52.839 --> 00:24:00.839 homes, we took things to their home uh that would help them motivate their 00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:08.097 kids and they became better, much better, much more comfortable and 00:24:08.130 --> 00:24:14.427 working with their kids. We worked with four year olds, yes, yes, four 00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:19.887 year olds. And we did we didn't teach reading and writing, we did creative 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.506 things 00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:30.539 and had youngsters create stories, make up stories and then recall stories 00:24:30.630 --> 00:24:35.637 and tell what they liked about it and so forth. And in the area, let's say 00:24:35.670 --> 00:24:41.947 of art, we didn't have cut out pictures, shall we say, of santa clauses 00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:47.347 and have them trace them and color them red and so forth. We let them draw 00:24:47.380 --> 00:24:54.806 them without lines. And it was very interesting. I would, I would think so. 00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:02.839 Um what were these mainly students from non english speaking or or 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:08.367 the students that I worked with were african americans and they spoke 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:13.506 english. But when you went into the hispanic, well that was done by a 00:25:13.539 --> 00:25:17.947 colleague of mine who was pursuing her doctorate degree. That was dr gary 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:23.306 Amina Engelbrecht at that time, we were both doctoral students. So she she 00:25:23.339 --> 00:25:31.339 dealt, she spoke spanish english and german and so she worked with mexican 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:35.407 Children. Mhm 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.857 carol, Be kind of careful, everyone's when you lean your head over, I'm 00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:47.907 leaving and I'm listening to it. I keep what I know and is it okay? Okay, 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:52.857 you get that white blur. And also at the same time there was another 00:25:52.890 --> 00:26:00.336 colleague named Florence Sawicki, she did the same study with an all 00:26:00.369 --> 00:26:03.707 caucasian group of students. 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:11.740 And so therefore we had research coming from several uh racial backgrounds 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:18.746 and on parents as well as the Children. And we pursued that for several 00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:26.157 years and in fact dr robert strum became quite quite well known in the 00:26:26.190 --> 00:26:31.107 area of parents Ed and also working with grandparents 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:35.097 and you worked in the Matthew Henson, you probably knew one of my best 00:26:35.130 --> 00:26:38.207 friends, Burnell Coleman, 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:43.857 she was one of my favorite people in the world. I worked with Vernell and 00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:49.427 we worked on several committees. She was an outreach person who wanted to 00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:57.460 make a difference in the communities and so forth. and uh June 16 which 00:26:58.470 --> 00:27:06.470 was the day that actually african americans Were freed supposedly. So we 00:27:07.109 --> 00:27:12.157 celebrated it on June the 16th, that's when the news got to people in 00:27:12.190 --> 00:27:17.756 Texas I believe. And so that's why we celebrate the emancipation 00:27:17.789 --> 00:27:24.006 proclamation on June 16 and Brunel Coleman was the leader in that and she 00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:30.407 provided uh programs for kids parents 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:36.256 and the interesting thing about Vernell was that she had arthritis, her 00:27:36.289 --> 00:27:42.187 body and she was in a wheelchair, especially towards the end, but it never 00:27:42.220 --> 00:27:48.506 took away her passion to help people. 00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:54.107 And I think one of her daughters is following through with that now also 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:58.306 it's doing a lot of work in the community. 00:27:58.339 --> 00:28:04.107 Have you ever worked with at the Carver Carver museum? Yes, 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:09.617 I was on the board for the carver museum for a short period of time, but 00:28:09.650 --> 00:28:17.650 then I found out that there was a tremendous need for money funds and so I 00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:26.069 stepped down from the board and I started writing proposals to get funding 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:31.566 and we were able to get some funds and plus the board was able to get 00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:36.607 quite a bit of funds from the city of phoenix. And so I worked with them. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:42.276 I also used to answer telephones when I would go there on uh one day a 00:28:42.309 --> 00:28:48.806 week. And so it was, it was very interesting 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:55.056 unfortunately, or fortunately I chose phoenix union because I was did not 00:28:55.089 --> 00:28:59.407 want to switch. If I had gone to Carver, I would have gone my freshman 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:04.647 year then my sophomore year, I would have had to go to phoenix union 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:09.947 because they were closing Carver because it was the only historically 00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:17.980 black high school in Arizona. And uh but I knew of all the wonderful 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:24.986 things that Carver had done with their students and with the community, my 00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:31.566 husband Went to Carver for two years and many of our friends went to 00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:35.397 Carver. 00:29:35.430 --> 00:29:41.576 Oh, it's just amazing. And in fact, the interesting thing being a history 00:29:41.609 --> 00:29:48.726 major, I always look at the history at the time, Carver existed one of the 00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:54.806 principles mr Robinson, he wouldn't hire 00:29:54.839 --> 00:30:00.107 a teacher at the high school that didn't have a masters 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:08.140 or was working on it. The Carver high school staff had more people with 00:30:08.609 --> 00:30:14.306 graduate degrees than any other high school. 00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:20.207 It's amazing. And in fact one of the one individual Fairfax, you've never 00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:26.437 heard of? Betty Fairfax. Betty gives scholarships to students at mary, 00:30:26.470 --> 00:30:32.717 Bethune many other places. But Betty started at Carver high school, she 00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:36.437 started mask of the yellow moon, which was a great performance. That would 00:30:36.470 --> 00:30:44.470 be done once a year, usually at the phoenix union stadium and she was 00:30:44.730 --> 00:30:50.056 great. Were you in one of the masks of the, you know, but I took physical 00:30:50.089 --> 00:30:56.607 education from her at phoenix union and we would do the dances, she would 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:03.016 dance with us and show us how to move and so forth. And she's still 00:31:03.049 --> 00:31:10.697 working by the way she's retired, but she goes to school at central, she 00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:18.607 advises students, she calls them, she emails them about scholarships 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:23.157 and the way that I know I had some grandkids that went there, so I would 00:31:23.190 --> 00:31:28.887 go to her for advice about the high school and so forth. The lady is all 00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:36.197 they write about in the newspaper. She's excellent. Red Red, Yes and she, 00:31:36.230 --> 00:31:41.036 she worked at Carver with students just like that. Was she a student at 00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:46.246 Carver? No, she was hired as a faculty, a staff person. No she was not a 00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:52.847 student. She was hired as a staff person. And uh it was just amazing the 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:59.357 way that the teachers at Carver they were involved in their student's 00:31:59.390 --> 00:32:06.647 lives. As I was involved in mine in elementary school as well as app A. S 00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:13.637 . U. Well Betty stayed uh she ended up in central, she was my daughter's 00:32:13.670 --> 00:32:19.566 counselor And I received some of those phone calls from her. It was before 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:26.597 email and she was even, my daughter graduated in the 80s, late 80s and she 00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:31.736 was still working full time and on the phone if my daughter was missing 00:32:31.769 --> 00:32:36.897 school. Oh she's on the phone. She and when they said she will go to 00:32:36.930 --> 00:32:44.627 students home and get them. She did it, she did it. She cover the staff 00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:50.667 that they had, they were serious about educating african american Children 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:58.437 and that carried over to any student they cared about all students and it 00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:03.907 was just it was just amazing the impact 00:33:03.940 --> 00:33:10.556 some of them became doctors like dr Grigsby, he became a professor here at 00:33:10.589 --> 00:33:17.877 A. S. U. In the art department and he still works for free of course for 00:33:17.910 --> 00:33:24.887 the community. He is the founder of Cobra 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:30.407 that's an association, an organization that supports the artwork of 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.897 African american artists and artists and I served on that board with him 00:33:35.930 --> 00:33:42.046 also. But his start was at Carver, that's where he started painting. Yes, 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:46.816 well he had an art class, he had art classes, but he started but also he 00:33:46.849 --> 00:33:51.347 taught at phoenix union, he taught art at phoenix union when they closed 00:33:51.380 --> 00:33:59.336 Carver they placed most of those teachers in different school districts 00:33:59.369 --> 00:34:04.586 like john c all nut who was an english teacher and literature teacher, he 00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:09.807 also taught at phoenix college when I got there and then there was another 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:15.526 english teacher, mr fraser who was at finish college and I had him as an 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:21.847 english teacher because they had placed them in those positions. Yes, but 00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:28.247 Eugene Grigsby, they moved him to a quonset hut on the phoenix union high 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.506 school grounds and I know that because that's where our class was, he was 00:34:32.539 --> 00:34:40.539 my art teacher. So they put us in and he taught photography to. 00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:46.367 Yes, I know that he didn't know about the photography part of 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:54.400 the most our teachers, you you teach a variety of art mediums and 00:34:55.619 --> 00:35:01.956 photography is a medium that is widely used and you know what he even 00:35:01.989 --> 00:35:05.066 worked on the yearbook, I mean because I took pictures for the yearbook 00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:11.030 and he would help us with that. She would help with the yearbook. Yes. 00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:13.440 Carver had quite an impact on, on the education educational system and the 00:35:16.219 --> 00:35:20.577 teachers went from there to other Yes, Carver definitely did uh their 00:35:20.610 --> 00:35:27.356 commitment to students, their commitment to the community because uh you 00:35:27.389 --> 00:35:31.956 know that saying about it takes a village to raise a child. Well african 00:35:31.989 --> 00:35:35.106 americans 00:35:35.139 --> 00:35:43.139 here in Arizona. See I'm a native in most of my ancestors that came here, 00:35:45.179 --> 00:35:50.706 they were actually on their way to California. Yes. 00:35:50.739 --> 00:35:56.986 And so they came from the south, you see, many of my relatives went up to 00:35:57.019 --> 00:36:02.347 Chicago, they went up east. But then there were some who were quite 00:36:02.380 --> 00:36:06.486 adventurous um who said well they were going to go to California. So my 00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:13.186 parents stopped in uh here in Mesa and that's where uh my father and his 00:36:13.219 --> 00:36:20.387 brothers and such that were raised and so it's just it's we took care of 00:36:20.420 --> 00:36:25.296 each other. What year was that? When did they come here? 00:36:25.329 --> 00:36:28.197 Okay. 00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:34.046 You know, I don't exactly know the year that my father came Here, but my 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:42.079 mother came here like in the 1936 or 37, but my father's people were here 00:36:44.250 --> 00:36:51.276 before that. Mm hmm. Yes, they were here before that and Harris's 00:36:51.309 --> 00:36:58.057 Hemphill's, we have relatives that live there now. Mhm. When you traveled 00:36:58.090 --> 00:37:01.997 then you went from, it's like coming from Glendale to phoenix. It was 00:37:02.030 --> 00:37:08.137 Glendale and then farms and the phoenix. Oh well actually, actually 00:37:08.170 --> 00:37:13.026 Glendale there wasn't much to Glendale then. No, there wasn't much to 00:37:13.059 --> 00:37:20.986 Glendale and north of Van Buren that was really north, you know? And as as 00:37:21.019 --> 00:37:29.019 the racial makeup of citizens change and people move have rights to live 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:35.316 in other places interesting enough, They changed school zones. And they 00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:42.796 also change uh where they place north and where they place south. 00:37:42.829 --> 00:37:50.829 Mm hmm. They do. And and it's it's sure. Well, if you study the history of 00:37:51.230 --> 00:37:56.396 every major city, every metropolitan city 00:37:56.429 --> 00:38:02.586 until the city leaders realized 00:38:02.619 --> 00:38:07.177 that humans are humans 00:38:07.210 --> 00:38:12.396 and I'll deserve equal rights. Then they play games, change school 00:38:12.429 --> 00:38:18.097 district zones and and change where north is North Van Buren. You wouldn't 00:38:18.130 --> 00:38:23.666 even talk about indian school rules. That was way north. So I guess I'm 00:38:23.699 --> 00:38:27.387 dating myself right. 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:31.256 I remember when they built the shopping center in the corner of central 00:38:31.289 --> 00:38:35.376 and camelback and everybody said, who's gonna try to go shopping 00:38:35.409 --> 00:38:37.467 absolutely 00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:43.486 nowhere. And now it's in the inner city, Right? Yeah, that's true. That's 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:48.236 really true. What was the best thing that you can think about teaching at 00:38:48.269 --> 00:38:55.907 a issue? What do you, I feel the best about. I feel the best about the 00:38:55.940 --> 00:39:03.940 commitment that a s you had when I was a student and also when I worked 00:39:04.210 --> 00:39:09.796 the commitment to the education of teachers, the preparation of teachers. 00:39:09.829 --> 00:39:16.166 It was a priority in our department. Research and writing at the time that 00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:21.586 I was hired was important. But students 00:39:21.619 --> 00:39:28.416 were the priorities and students service providing service to your student 00:39:28.449 --> 00:39:33.887 support. And you wrote that up. And when you got ready to apply for a 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:39.986 promotion or something that was as important on your 00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:45.387 curriculum vita as an article in the College of education but that did not 00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:51.896 , even though students were the priority. That did not stop the faculty 00:39:51.929 --> 00:39:59.807 from doing research and publishing. We had faculty like dr strum, writing 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:05.776 and publishing and parented and so forth. Gary bitter in mathematics and 00:40:05.809 --> 00:40:11.117 technology, joan Moyer and early childhood. And we published some articles 00:40:11.150 --> 00:40:16.856 together and I published an article with dr strum and we just and we had 00:40:16.889 --> 00:40:23.106 great uh indian air programs that was when they passed certain laws and 00:40:23.139 --> 00:40:30.876 money was available. And so we had excellent prep programs. 00:40:30.909 --> 00:40:37.537 What's the thing that you disliked most about at that time when you were 00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:45.046 teaching there, the lack of diversity because I think the best way for 00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:48.796 people to really learn about the world and about Children and about 00:40:48.829 --> 00:40:55.077 teaching is seeing it from a variety of perspectives 00:40:55.110 --> 00:41:01.227 and you don't get That great variety of perspectives and knowledge when 00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:08.666 you deal primarily with people from one ethnic or racial background. And 00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:15.986 so that was one of the things that I did not like uh that not only was the 00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:24.019 student body primarily caucasian, but the faculty was also primarily 00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:28.577 caucasian. So that was 00:41:28.610 --> 00:41:32.776 probably the most negative thing that 00:41:32.809 --> 00:41:38.907 in terms of teaching. See, so we would have our students go to Phoenix #1 00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:45.387 which had become diverse at that time and also Roosevelt. And so our 00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:51.276 students were exposed to people from different backgrounds and cultures. 00:41:51.309 --> 00:41:57.666 And so we, I thought we really provided a great prep for them. What are 00:41:57.699 --> 00:42:05.699 you doing now since you retired? I primarily write grants for community 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:14.000 organizations like koba like Carver high school and so forth. And uh serve 00:42:14.900 --> 00:42:22.900 on boards for those same organizations and some others. And so being uh 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:30.920 involved in the community was one of the things that caused me to pursue a 00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:38.997 doctorate at A. S. U. Because S. You even at that time was community 00:42:39.030 --> 00:42:41.967 oriented. 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:49.517 And so service was rated, I was on governors, committees for Children and 00:42:49.550 --> 00:42:55.267 so forth and economic development when I was a faculty member. And that 00:42:55.300 --> 00:43:01.896 was considered important our participation and so forth. Is that still 00:43:01.929 --> 00:43:09.929 considered an important part of your of the the professors. Uh the the the 00:43:10.469 --> 00:43:18.469 let's say the ranking that falls much much lower now. But it's interesting 00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:21.666 the geographical 00:43:21.699 --> 00:43:25.467 location of a sus 00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:31.447 other campuses like A. S. U. West, the east campus and now the downtown 00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:39.480 campus uh which those were motivated by collaboration and involvement in 00:43:39.860 --> 00:43:47.057 the community. So now the involvement is not traveling necessarily to 00:43:47.090 --> 00:43:52.827 another site, but we're right there in the middle of it and getting quite 00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:56.666 a bit of support from the governor 00:43:56.699 --> 00:44:04.699 Janet and as well as uh our mayor garden. And so we're doing collaboration 00:44:07.099 --> 00:44:14.046 with them because education Yeah. Without education, you don't have 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:19.736 astronauts that's, you don't you don't have medication to help deal with 00:44:19.769 --> 00:44:24.066 with cancer. And it all starts with education. It all starts with 00:44:24.099 --> 00:44:29.236 education. It all starts with education. What happened, we ask you that, 00:44:29.269 --> 00:44:34.756 that you would like to people know, 00:44:34.789 --> 00:44:42.789 I would say about my career, okay, about my career, one of the things that 00:44:42.909 --> 00:44:47.756 really made a difference was the collaborative 00:44:47.789 --> 00:44:54.026 support I received from faculty and staff here at issue. Although it was 00:44:54.059 --> 00:45:01.356 not diverse. Yes, they the faculty and staff supported me. 00:45:01.389 --> 00:45:07.807 If I wanted to have schedules changed, I would go to Madeline right? Uh 00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:15.840 Dennis keegan. Uh it was amazing. Everybody was very, very supportive and 00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:24.427 that I appreciated Dr Moyer. She was my mentor. Dr Talbert was my mentor. 00:45:24.460 --> 00:45:30.717 It was just absolutely wonderful. The kind of support I got here. Do you 00:45:30.750 --> 00:45:35.497 have any questions I was going to ask you, Who are the other two faculty 00:45:35.530 --> 00:45:43.137 members? The male faculty members was that uh as I recall, it was dr john 00:45:43.170 --> 00:45:47.356 Edwards. And also, 00:45:47.389 --> 00:45:53.586 I'm not sure if Morrison warned. Dr Morrison warned. And then I think 00:45:53.619 --> 00:46:01.619 Grigsby was in the art. Yes, he was in Art. Doctor Grigsby. Yes, yes, and 00:46:03.190 --> 00:46:10.427 Dr Warren. But now the the the university is extremely diverse, extremely 00:46:10.460 --> 00:46:17.256 large, More women in different administrative positions. For example, I 00:46:17.289 --> 00:46:22.026 was associate dean. Assistant dean in the Graduate College in the early 00:46:22.059 --> 00:46:30.059 80s. And before I left there, The College of Business was 50% female, 00:46:31.150 --> 00:46:38.686 50% female. And uh when I entered a issue, my first year as assistant 00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:42.247 professor, we had maybe 13,000 00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:47.376 On this campus and we only have one campus. And by the time I retired in 00:46:47.409 --> 00:46:55.409 2000 we had close to 40,000 and we had three sites and we were planning 00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:59.247 downtown 00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:05.017 campus. But the interesting thing being a citizen of Arizona and 00:47:05.050 --> 00:47:09.646 interested in history, I always would look at what the legislature would 00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:15.186 do in terms of providing financial support for the campuses. We had you of 00:47:15.219 --> 00:47:21.646 A N. A. U. And A. S. U. And even though we were larger than the U. Of a, 00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:28.247 we never got the kind of financial support I thought our students and 00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:36.280 faculty deserved until we, our last couple of presidents cores and uh dr 00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:45.956 Crow. That's because all the legislators went to U. Of a. Yeah, 00:47:45.989 --> 00:47:51.677 so they, but that has changed. Uh not only has the university changed in 00:47:51.710 --> 00:47:59.526 size changed in support changed in the number of campuses, but also even 00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:05.097 though we don't have a medical school Were ranked in the # one category of 00:48:05.130 --> 00:48:13.130 Research by the Carnegie ranking. Absolutely. And we have a higher 00:48:14.380 --> 00:48:20.356 attendance of Students the freshman year, they graduate in the top 10 of 00:48:20.389 --> 00:48:28.157 the class, higher than Yale and Harvard and Stanford and Rhodes scholars. 00:48:28.190 --> 00:48:34.637 We get, we have more of those than most of the campuses. It's amazing. 00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:39.146 Usually those things happen more at a school where there's a medical 00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:44.017 school, can we do it without it? We do it without it. We and we you're 00:48:44.050 --> 00:48:49.276 talking about programs. Environmental programs, public programs seek 00:48:49.309 --> 00:48:56.217 public affairs college did not exist when I started, but before I left we 00:48:56.250 --> 00:49:00.137 had a college of public programs. 00:49:00.170 --> 00:49:03.376 That's excellent Betty. What do you see as the future? What's the future 00:49:03.409 --> 00:49:07.537 like? What do you see? 00:49:07.570 --> 00:49:11.836 Well, I see 00:49:11.869 --> 00:49:19.827 Arizona State University continuing to developed campuses because this is 00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:26.217 a large geographical state and for the longest, if you couldn't drive 00:49:26.250 --> 00:49:30.416 miles and miles and miles, you just couldn't get an education. And so I 00:49:30.449 --> 00:49:38.449 think the need is to provide more campuses also to contribute to knowledge 00:49:39.849 --> 00:49:44.387 that hospitals need. So we're collaborating with hospitals. I see more 00:49:44.420 --> 00:49:51.327 collaboration. They're environmentally. I see more collaboration and also 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:53.836 general education 00:49:53.869 --> 00:50:01.869 Availability via computers and also Channel eight. I remember a channel 00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:08.706 eight started when I was here as a faculty member and uh we get arts 00:50:08.739 --> 00:50:13.847 through there. But also we get vital information about the warming of the 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:19.086 , you know, the ecosystem and so forth. So we're going to play roles in 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:25.876 all of those areas. And we're hiring people who have the commitment and 00:50:25.909 --> 00:50:30.896 capability of doing that. And also, one thing I didn't mention and I want 00:50:30.929 --> 00:50:37.927 to underscore it. The ability to collaborate with people in different 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:45.960 positions has made and will continue to make a big difference in a issue. 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:52.807 How do you feel, what do you feel about the online classes are so popular 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:56.727 now? Like university of phoenix and the other 00:50:56.760 --> 00:51:03.526 in some areas. I believe online uh 00:51:03.559 --> 00:51:06.927 classes work very well. 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:11.467 I don't feel the same way about teacher education except for a few of the 00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:19.500 classes. I believe that people learn to teach by taking their liberal arts 00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:30.239 knowledge, philosophy here, street, all of that. And and also human 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:39.760 development and developing not only content, but also the experiences. I 00:51:41.190 --> 00:51:45.126 used to tell my students 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:51.436 when you come here and we talk, I learned from you as well as you learned 00:51:51.469 --> 00:51:54.626 from me 00:51:54.659 --> 00:52:02.217 and we all learn from each other. And and if that is not what you want, 00:52:02.250 --> 00:52:08.836 then you might need to consider a correspondence course. And I don't 00:52:08.869 --> 00:52:14.736 believe that correspondence courses or technological courses or what 00:52:14.769 --> 00:52:21.706 online courses can prepare the best teachers 00:52:21.739 --> 00:52:26.486 interacting with people being in classrooms, 00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:29.416 seeing the neighborhood. 00:52:29.449 --> 00:52:33.936 You can't do that. You have to have the interaction. You must have the 00:52:33.969 --> 00:52:40.506 interaction now. They could say I'm an old fogey or I'm traditional, but 00:52:40.539 --> 00:52:45.517 uh I really believe that teachers don't, it's not just information that 00:52:45.550 --> 00:52:50.847 teachers provide. Teachers are models. Teachers provide not only in the 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:57.066 cognitive area, but also the emotional and the physical. That's true. I 00:52:57.099 --> 00:53:02.657 agree. I also didn't even I asked you this about you served as the dean of 00:53:02.690 --> 00:53:05.756 school of education at the University of California Bakersfield. Yeah. At 00:53:05.789 --> 00:53:12.517 Cal State University Bakersfield, I was there for from 1990 to 1997. 00:53:12.550 --> 00:53:19.747 Yes. And I came back here. Mhm. This is my home, my family lives here, my 00:53:19.780 --> 00:53:24.597 friends. In fact, they're my friends. There's a group of us. We call 00:53:24.630 --> 00:53:28.517 ourselves the fairies. 00:53:28.550 --> 00:53:32.916 We got together 00:53:32.949 --> 00:53:38.686 Almost 30 years ago. We would go to eat the birth of each child. We'd go 00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:46.577 to weddings, we would cry at divorces, We party at New Year's. We party at 00:53:46.610 --> 00:53:53.717 all the birthdays that we have, we still meet. And so this is my home for 00:53:53.750 --> 00:54:01.750 friends and for my family, my Children are here. And so I came back here 00:54:01.849 --> 00:54:09.356 and uh work some more And then retired in 2000. What was Bakersfield like 00:54:09.389 --> 00:54:16.206 ? It's such a switch from issue to a smaller town from our campus. 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:21.586 It's interesting, some people ask me, why did I accept that position? I 00:54:21.619 --> 00:54:29.619 accepted the position. No one. I had never worked for 00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:35.247 a person of color in a leadership position. The president of that 00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:43.066 university was dr thomas or cienega. Also, when I looked at the makeup of 00:54:43.099 --> 00:54:48.986 the campus, there were mexican students, indian students and caucasian 00:54:49.019 --> 00:54:51.606 students 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:59.126 I chose there also cotton. It was a big thing. Their cattle was a big 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:05.847 thing. But the thing was not copper, it was oil. But Bakersfield was a lot 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.006 like 00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:10.907 phoenix was 00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:17.767 as I was growing up. But I got a chance to work with uh, administrators, 00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:22.807 more administrators that came from different backgrounds and that. And I 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:26.796 enjoyed that tremendously. Some people say, well why didn't you accept a 00:55:26.829 --> 00:55:32.997 position at one of the historically black colleges and I was offered a 00:55:33.030 --> 00:55:40.227 position I was sought after. But I like the diversity because it, for me 00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:44.006 that's now and that's the future. 00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:48.807 It's true. 00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:55.280 Really. I think we got it. I think we got it. Good, good, excellent.