WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.306 recording 00:00:06.339 --> 00:00:10.736 to start off. The first thing I want to do is introduce on the tape that 00:00:10.769 --> 00:00:16.166 we're conducting a living history video project interview for the issue 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.366 retirees association and my name is pam Stevenson. I'll be doing the 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:25.296 interview. And our videographer today is Manny Garcia and we are at the 00:00:25.329 --> 00:00:30.056 visitor information center of a issue at rural road and Apache and today 00:00:30.089 --> 00:00:35.906 is monday january 30th 2000 and six. And I like to have you introduce 00:00:35.939 --> 00:00:41.707 yourself. Can you just give me your full name? My name is Margaret is alot 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:49.740 G I S O L O. Good. When were you born? Where were you born? Just for some 00:00:50.299 --> 00:00:58.006 background. Let's see. I was born in Indiana in 1914. 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:03.857 Sounded like a title of the song. I was born in indiana 00:01:03.890 --> 00:01:09.016 was born in Nebraska. But uh did you grow up there on a farm or in the 00:01:09.049 --> 00:01:17.049 city? My folks had a grocery store and uh sometimes I helped there you 00:01:17.129 --> 00:01:22.307 know and let's see 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:27.066 high school was fairly close. All I had to do was go across the street and 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:32.706 just a little bit of short distance. So that was handy. A small town, 00:01:32.739 --> 00:01:40.107 small town. What was the name of the Blandford? B L A N F o R D. 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:44.397 Indiana is a town that's still there. It's still, there are a lot of those 00:01:44.430 --> 00:01:47.757 little towns disappeared over the years. Yes right now I think it's still 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:54.406 there. Yeah. Right. Did you have brothers and sisters? Yes I did. I had, 00:01:54.439 --> 00:02:00.566 let's see how shall I start? My brother Tony was the oldest and then my 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:08.599 brother joe. Uh my brother dom. And then my sister. Louise 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:18.006 and mary and myself. How did I do 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:24.307 understand that? Yeah. I waited till everybody else. God. 00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:26.386 Huh. 00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:29.606 Well tell me what, what was it a small school then? If it was a small town 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:34.906 , it was a small town. Um, 00:02:34.939 --> 00:02:40.346 So I I went up through the 8th grade there And then I had to go to Clinton 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:46.416 , which was about seven miles from my house. There was a bus would take us. 00:02:46.449 --> 00:02:53.267 And so then I I graduated. I did that by next degree program. There. Were 00:02:53.300 --> 00:03:01.300 you a good student? Oh, I don't know. Sure. Sure I was. What were your 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:07.606 favorite subjects? Let me see. 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:13.606 Well this is not a subject, but I like to play sports? 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:20.307 Um I don't know. I guess I like hygiene. What what sports did you like? 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:24.807 Well, my brother taught me how to play baseball 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.906 and then I learned how to play tennis. 00:03:28.939 --> 00:03:34.096 So in my later years I was playing tennis, but he taught me I was actually 00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:38.707 baseball was the only thing then going in that small town. 00:03:38.740 --> 00:03:43.237 Was it unusual for a girl to be playing baseball? I spoke for some, some 00:03:43.270 --> 00:03:49.797 places. It was some people and maybe it was, but it was a small town and 00:03:49.830 --> 00:03:54.696 everybody knew everybody. That's one of those things. So growing up, did 00:03:54.729 --> 00:04:00.606 you have any ideas of what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:08.639 Can you answer that for me? Didn't you want to be a teacher? 00:04:10.340 --> 00:04:15.057 Maybe? I didn't decide that until later, I guess. I don't know. Well, did 00:04:15.090 --> 00:04:19.647 you plan on going to college after high school? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.856 went to Terre haute indiana to college because we didn't have it in our 00:04:23.889 --> 00:04:30.606 small town. Had your other people in your family gone to college before? 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:36.226 Uh, no, they didn't get to college, but there's my sister Louise, she 00:04:36.259 --> 00:04:41.707 didn't get to college. My brother Tony was the oldest student and now I 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:47.606 think I was the only one. Why did you decide to go to college? 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:54.957 Do you know why I just mm hmm. I guess it was an urging on the part of the 00:04:54.990 --> 00:05:00.096 family and all that. It was a good thing to do to increase your education 00:05:00.129 --> 00:05:08.129 , you know? And so I think they were the ones who urged me to go 00:05:08.949 --> 00:05:16.949 and I'm glad they did. So you like college then? What was your major? 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:27.817 Was it Pete? I guess it was physical, physical education because my 00:05:27.850 --> 00:05:32.036 brother Tony taught me how to play baseball. So it's kind of a logical 00:05:32.069 --> 00:05:38.507 thing. And then what do you plan to do after you got out of college? 00:05:38.540 --> 00:05:43.406 Um, let's see. 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.906 I guess I wanted to, 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:53.406 I guess it wasn't getting into a doctorate I guess. But I got more 00:05:53.439 --> 00:06:00.406 moore college education. Terra haute indiana. 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.596 Did you get a job after that? Or what what you do with all that education 00:06:04.629 --> 00:06:07.007 ? 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:12.457 Did I stick it in my pocket? Um 00:06:12.490 --> 00:06:20.106 Let's see. 00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:27.606 I think I got a job in terra haute indiana. 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:32.767 I think that's what it was. And you had your major in pe physical 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:39.077 education. So what was your first job after that? Mhm. I think that I 00:06:39.110 --> 00:06:43.707 thought I think in paris Illinois which was not too far from my hometown. 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:49.606 What were you teaching? I was teaching ah 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:51.806 sports 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.707 and 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:58.616 let's see there was something else. I think I was teaching too. The 00:06:58.649 --> 00:07:03.187 primary primary sports. That seemed to be my area high school. There was a 00:07:03.220 --> 00:07:06.606 high school. Yes. Yes. 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:11.906 Well how did you happen to come out to Arizona? 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:16.226 I think Arizona called me. 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:23.106 Did I know some people here pulled me here probably, didn't you imagine? 00:07:23.139 --> 00:07:27.916 Yeah, that was right. That's it. Yeah. I had some friends here and I came. 00:07:27.949 --> 00:07:34.426 Have you been here before to visit them or No, I don't think so. Just 00:07:34.459 --> 00:07:37.007 like the idea. 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:43.106 So what do you remember what year it was that you came out here? 00:07:43.139 --> 00:07:48.176 Was it before the war? After the war? Beth has it. She knows I have a 00:07:48.209 --> 00:07:51.087 short term memory. So 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.106 1553 00:07:53.139 --> 00:07:57.967 1953. Okay 1953. What did you do during the war years? What were you doing 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:06.000 ? Um Let's see. Get into the navy. I got into the Navy and 00:08:07.540 --> 00:08:14.556 I was sent to texas and I was there for some time 00:08:14.589 --> 00:08:18.027 and I don't know if they sent me someplace else? I feel like I just, they 00:08:18.060 --> 00:08:23.187 did send me someplace else when I got home. Remember that? What did they 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:28.606 call the women that were in the navy then? 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.906 Ah, 00:08:31.939 --> 00:08:36.807 I can't answer that just now. But there's one thing I just dawned on me. 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:42.067 The men, they enlisted men are supposed to salute officers. Okay. I was an 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:48.506 officer. They did not want to salute the women, 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:55.407 but they had, so they kind of go like this, you know? Yeah. 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:00.496 So you went in as an officer because you had your college education. What 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:04.106 were you doing in the Navy? 00:09:04.139 --> 00:09:12.139 Well, let's see. What did I do in the navy? I think various things. 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:18.146 You're testing my memory. Uh, and the doctors tell me I have a short term 00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:23.707 memory. So, uh, 00:09:23.740 --> 00:09:29.606 trying to think now and I can remember talking to that one fellow because 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:37.639 he knew what the score was and what I was going to have to do. 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:42.476 What, why did you decide to go into the navy? Well, it was wartime. 00:09:42.509 --> 00:09:49.006 Everybody was being ah, you know, 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:56.207 wanting to help the country. And I think that's why I went in 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:01.667 and the men and I was an officer. But the enlisted men, you know, are 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:06.287 supposed to salute the officers. 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:12.136 And they would, but they go a lot like like that. You know, 00:10:12.169 --> 00:10:17.307 they did not like to salute the women opposite. 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:22.596 Were there? Very many of you women on the base where you were? I think 00:10:22.629 --> 00:10:30.496 there was a good handful of women. Did you ever go overseas or No I didn't 00:10:30.529 --> 00:10:33.287 go overseas. 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:36.606 Most of the time I was in texas, 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:42.006 corpus Christi texas. Okay. Yeah 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:45.907 yeah most of the time was there 00:10:45.940 --> 00:10:52.217 did you make some good friends while you were in the Navy? Uh Yeah uh I 00:10:52.250 --> 00:10:57.907 played tennis. So the people who played tennis 00:10:57.940 --> 00:11:01.006 got my tennis in. 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.797 Huh? Can you remember something? I would like to tell the story about your 00:11:05.830 --> 00:11:10.976 commanding officer told you to show up on the tennis court. Oh yes thank 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:16.957 you. I I was a tennis player and the commanding officer was a tennis 00:11:16.990 --> 00:11:22.807 player. Mhm. And uh he said uh 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:27.376 uh well first of all he and he said you play tennis? I said yes sir yes 00:11:27.409 --> 00:11:34.396 sir. And he said well you'll be on the court tomorrow morning, eight 00:11:34.429 --> 00:11:38.947 o'clock or whatever it was. You know I said well let me check you be on 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:46.980 the court tomorrow morning at eight o'clock. Yes sir. That then is that 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:52.976 yeah. Were you on the court? Oh yeah I was on the court and then we played 00:11:53.009 --> 00:11:56.766 in every morning for quite a while I think maybe he got transferred or 00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:58.776 something. 00:11:58.809 --> 00:12:03.307 Are you a pretty good player? 00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:09.606 She's not in your head. I'm fairly athletic. So I've played pretty much 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:15.207 yeah so when did you get out of the navy? How long did you serve? Uh Oh 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:21.376 boy. Do you have that answer for you? Four years. That sounds about, that 00:12:21.409 --> 00:12:26.146 sounds four years. Yeah, that sounds about right. Where did you, what did 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:30.207 you do when you got out of the, 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:35.766 you're really testing my memory. It is not that good. What I do best sure 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.606 is better than 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:42.006 when did you? 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:44.407 Oh 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.756 yeah, it was after the service I guess. I went to Columbia University, got 00:12:47.789 --> 00:12:51.106 my degree 00:12:51.139 --> 00:12:55.967 uh in new york city. New york city. That must have been an experience for 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.407 you. It was a good experience. Have you been to new york before? 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:05.766 I don't think so. I don't know. Is this where you started dancing? I took 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:12.116 some dancing probably. But what was new york like that time after the war 00:13:12.149 --> 00:13:20.149 years? Well uh 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:28.639 it's hard for me to say. I it was, I know it was a busy time and uh ah I 00:13:29.629 --> 00:13:35.006 didn't know people were looking for jobs. One thing 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:40.327 ah I guess that's about as much as I know I can recall on that. What did 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:47.006 you, what did you think of new york when you went there? It's a big city, 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:51.346 not the small town I came from, from a small town, everybody knew 00:13:51.379 --> 00:13:57.986 everybody and not that way in new york city, however, but I I made friends 00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:01.217 easily and so 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:07.307 I got along just fine. The ah 00:14:07.340 --> 00:14:12.506 I was thinking of the teachers. What did you go there to study? 00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:20.539 Ah My mind is slow this morning. Beth I I did get a degree. Their master's 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.866 degree, they're 00:14:23.899 --> 00:14:29.636 okay, I guess that's true, that's true. Most of the dancing tell us about 00:14:29.669 --> 00:14:34.447 that. Not ballroom but the performing art of modern dance, that's where 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:39.707 I'd like to say it. But performing art art please 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:46.797 of dance. Yeah. So tell me about how that how that happened. Did you get 00:14:46.830 --> 00:14:52.967 involved with dance? Mhm. Perfume memories. But at the moment I don't know 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.927 whether he took any dance classes 00:14:55.960 --> 00:15:02.657 when you're doing your bathroom? Mm hmm. Probably not. I had always been 00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:10.690 an athlete though. And uh then the dance was just another aspect really of 00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:16.707 it and I think that's how it happened. 00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:22.207 Mm Yeah. Movement. You know, 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.707 did you do any performing in new york? 00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:31.407 Ah 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.707 It seems like 00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:40.207 there was a place north of new york city 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:46.226 where we would go up there at times and uh I may be, may have done some of 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:53.667 it then. Bennington. Bennington, that's very good. They have Pennington, 00:15:53.700 --> 00:15:58.346 Was that a theater or what kind of a place that I didn't want to? It was a 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:06.379 performing art's place, yeah. Uh huh. You got your master's at Columbia 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:15.120 then? Uh or was it N Y U I'm thinking about? N. Y. U. No. Yeah. And what 00:16:15.889 --> 00:16:23.889 what area was that in? Ah let's see my master's degree. 00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:30.006 I didn't know was that the performing arts, 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.197 I think I know it was an image. 00:16:33.230 --> 00:16:38.307 Yes, ma'am. Yes or not. So 00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:43.047 yeah. And I would go in the summertime and it was held not in the city, 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:47.807 but north of the city. They own some land there. 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:52.707 And uh, 00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:57.557 that's where we danced. Yeah. Well, tell me about coming to Phoenix. What 00:16:57.590 --> 00:17:04.607 was Phoenix like when you came here in the 50s? 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:10.006 Mm hmm. Beth knows I have a short term memory. You're going to help me on 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:13.506 this bed. Yeah, 00:17:13.539 --> 00:17:16.897 I'll have my turn later. 00:17:16.930 --> 00:17:20.207 What would the streets pay? 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:24.006 Yes, I don't remember that either. Did you come from new york to phoenix? 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:30.707 No. My home state was indiana when you went home in between. Yes, 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:35.226 but I did teach in pennsylvania. Indiana. Pennsylvania and my home state 00:17:35.259 --> 00:17:39.197 was indiana 00:17:39.230 --> 00:17:43.597 could Yes, you could. So you don't remember what your first impression was 00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:50.707 when you came to be expected what you thought of Phoenix in 1953, 00:17:50.740 --> 00:17:56.766 I guess at that time I was particularly interested in sports. 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:01.857 And my brother Tony, the oldest played uh, sports, played baseball. So he 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:07.806 taught me how to play baseball. So I played some baseball, 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:13.657 it was on the boys team. It wasn't a girls team. And I did all right. Go 00:18:13.690 --> 00:18:21.690 ahead, 1928. Sure. Talk a little bit about playing on the boys team. 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:28.476 Okay. You're on a winning team. Tell them about it. Going to Chicago. Oh 00:18:28.509 --> 00:18:33.746 see I've forgotten. Beth you tell her that I forgot. Oh, see, I don't 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.536 remember. 12. Well, I have a bad memory, you know. So you're gonna have to 00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:45.569 help me. Let's see. Uh Yes. I was asked to go to Chicago. Uh the team with 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:54.427 the team. That's right. Yes, we were winning. But did we finish? All right. 00:18:54.460 --> 00:19:01.647 The run? That's right. Beth you should tell the story because I forgot. 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:04.776 But I need your help. 00:19:04.809 --> 00:19:10.927 I got the winning run. That's right. I got the winning run. And what 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:17.806 happened because of that when the team won the other team? Oh yes, they 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:23.640 registered a protest because they said I was a girl and I wasn't eligible. 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:28.347 What team was it was a Chicago. It was Chicago team I think. But it was 00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:33.137 american legion. Yeah. Baseball. Yeah. American legion. Baseball. Right. 00:19:33.170 --> 00:19:39.006 Right. Good thing. My my second memory is here. 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:44.907 Yeah, it was american legion. And the baseball commissioner. 00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:50.867 Oh yes. He signed a baseball that. What do you mean? He signed the 00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:57.586 baseball and gave it to me. And but I have now given it to 00:19:57.619 --> 00:20:04.407 Cooperstown Baseball Hall of Fame. Mm hmm. 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.556 And 00:20:07.589 --> 00:20:09.707 remember 00:20:09.740 --> 00:20:14.357 because they changed the rules and when we were not allowed to play 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:16.506 afterwards. 00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:21.026 Right. I didn't say that before. You know, it didn't and they said it just 00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:24.746 caused too much trouble because they had to have separate dressing rooms 00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:29.736 and all that kind of stuff and made it more difficult for them to do the 00:20:29.769 --> 00:20:32.207 job I guess. 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:37.597 But I squeezed in before they remembered anything about that or they knew 00:20:37.630 --> 00:20:41.586 that women would want to do that? That's right. That's the primary cause I 00:20:41.619 --> 00:20:46.687 think, Can you tell her about playing baseball from Mark Allen when you 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.806 were 15? 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.407 I've never forgotten about that john nelson, 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.086 I am not. Mark nelson had a girls team out of Chicago. This is 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.907 professional. Professional. Oh yeah. So I earned some money 00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:09.407 to help me through school by playing baseball on her team. 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:13.937 And so that was helpful to my family. Anyway, they didn't have to come up 00:21:13.970 --> 00:21:17.756 with all the money. You must have been a pretty good player. What position 00:21:17.789 --> 00:21:24.086 did you play? Uh was I did I play second base for them part time? 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:29.026 Someplace I played first base. I know. And I may have played 2nd base for 00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:36.996 her. Mhm. But anyway, first base and they're both. I played both sometime 00:21:37.029 --> 00:21:42.207 or other anyway. Pretty important positions. 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.217 Well let's get back to you. You're moving to phoenix? Was it a big 00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:51.407 decision to come to phoenix? 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:55.107 Yes. 00:21:55.140 --> 00:22:00.016 Why did I come here in the first place? Was this where the president 00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:06.617 offered you the job? Can you tell that the president of university offered 00:22:06.650 --> 00:22:14.347 me the job? What job was it at Arizona state? Yeah. And so how long was I 00:22:14.380 --> 00:22:17.607 there? What was your job when the first job? When you came here? What was 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:22.607 your job title? 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:28.417 I I think it was in the area of physical education. Okay, instructor. I 00:22:28.450 --> 00:22:31.447 think you're right. Do you remember what president it was that offered you 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:36.786 the job? 00:22:36.819 --> 00:22:42.387 I can almost see him. Nothing. Right now. When you arrived, hadn't he 00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:45.306 recently died? 00:22:45.339 --> 00:22:47.607 Mm hmm. 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:52.207 You may be right. 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.467 So then there was a new president that came in and you were concerned 00:22:55.500 --> 00:23:01.847 about honoring your offer because there was no letter 35. You haven't 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:09.457 gotten anything in writing. And when you got here, the president, 00:23:09.490 --> 00:23:13.217 That was 1953. 00:23:13.250 --> 00:23:18.107 She started in 54. Okay. 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:22.207 We can look up which president? That was the year. 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.806 Okay. What was the university like when you wasn't able to call the 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:29.836 University of the college 00:23:29.869 --> 00:23:37.869 college? How big was it? What was it, what did it look like? Yeah. 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:42.907 Remember is better than mine. I wasn't here Margaret. I'm sorry. 00:23:42.940 --> 00:23:47.306 Ah let's see, 00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.107 mm hmm. 00:23:50.140 --> 00:23:57.217 I knew it grew in in numbers, you know. And just to start short time after 00:23:57.250 --> 00:24:00.036 I got there. 00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:02.907 Where was your office? 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:08.306 Your first office? 00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:12.157 I think my office was on the first floor. 00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:20.190 There were two floors. What building with the A. S. U. At west 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:28.147 in the fifties. Mhm. More building was it? The more building? Maybe so? 00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:34.157 Maybe so. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:24:34.190 --> 00:24:38.506 What did you teach? 00:24:38.539 --> 00:24:43.707 Uh Well I taught dance? Right. 00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:47.806 And uh 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:54.250 what else did I teach? I thought some sports and I thought some sports too. 00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:56.339 So dance was part of the physical education department. Yes. Mhm. 00:25:02.539 --> 00:25:07.306 Yeah, I wouldn't people came and took dance, Was that just for fun or 00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:12.447 could they major in dance? Or how did that work? You know, they they got 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.006 credit for the course? 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:20.486 Ah I don't know how they use it exactly. 00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:23.306 Um 00:25:23.339 --> 00:25:26.607 They got credit for it. 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.907 It was a credit course. 00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:32.607 Mhm. 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.207 But could you get a degree in dance back then? 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:43.347 I think I got the degree program in later, didn't I, 1969 69. I I said 00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:48.407 that the degree program up and tell me about, how did you do that? Well, 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:53.586 um I think I checked around the various universities around the country 00:25:53.619 --> 00:25:59.707 and what the requirements were and out of that, I made what was logical 00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:05.707 for our school as a requirement, 00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:08.976 but I did check around and I know that I checked around David in New york 00:26:09.009 --> 00:26:13.607 city because I knew somebody there. 00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:19.947 So I checked around and then decided from all of that. What what to 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.506 require, 00:26:22.539 --> 00:26:26.226 What do people here at the university think of the idea of drinking is a 00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:30.407 degree? 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:34.667 Uh Who was that man on the committee? I don't know his name. It's a great 00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:36.796 story. 00:26:36.829 --> 00:26:39.006 What? 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:43.006 Oh yes, he said, what are we gonna have next to a degree in gymnastics? 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:48.897 Yes, that was his. So you had to have a committee to approve it. Oh yes. 00:26:48.930 --> 00:26:56.637 Oh yes, and that's what he said, but nevertheless it went through, we got 00:26:56.670 --> 00:27:04.306 the degree program in. Do you remember what year that was 1969, 00:27:04.339 --> 00:27:08.137 So before that it was just part of you couldn't get a degree in dance, You 00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:15.506 just took PE and got a degree in physical education. That's right. Mhm. 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:20.236 What difference did it make to be able to offer a degree in dance? Why was 00:27:20.269 --> 00:27:23.306 that important? 00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:28.296 Well, I guess I thought that I felt that 00:27:28.329 --> 00:27:36.329 to dance was kind of important for the body, for the mind, you know, and 00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:41.306 it shouldn't be missed 00:27:41.339 --> 00:27:45.756 at least. That was my opinion. Anyway, I can understand about the body, 00:27:45.789 --> 00:27:49.806 but how does the dance help the mind? 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.976 Well, there's a lot of thinking going on. You know, you have to go from 00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:58.147 maybe sometimes one movement to another. And uh and there are different 00:27:58.180 --> 00:28:03.347 times when you hold a movement versus another time when you're not holding 00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:08.806 the movement, you know, that sort of thing. Okay. 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:16.839 Why would it be important to be able to get a degree in that and dance 00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:25.940 certification to teach in public schools? Okay. Thanks. Beth yes. 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:32.256 People then could get a degree and teaching the schools, teach and teach 00:28:32.289 --> 00:28:38.506 dance? Mhm. 00:28:38.539 --> 00:28:43.086 What or the things that you've accomplished here on campus. Can you tell 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:46.927 us any interesting stories about things that happened with your dance 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:48.986 program 00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:54.076 that your mind is better memory than mine 00:28:54.109 --> 00:28:57.107 maybe tell the story 00:28:57.140 --> 00:29:00.407 In the early 50s, 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.607 Charles Lewis. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.766 Yes, 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.016 it would be better if you told it because I'm trying to remember and I 00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:14.506 can't 00:29:14.539 --> 00:29:21.506 when you take students off. Oh yes, yes. 00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:25.667 What happened when you tried to go to a restaurant? 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:30.937 I'd forgotten that myself that we couldn't we could 00:29:30.970 --> 00:29:36.637 sit together. What was it they didn't they wouldn't serve? Oh that's right 00:29:36.670 --> 00:29:42.506 , go ahead and finish it because 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:45.867 we'll talk to beth and later we're gonna talk to you now. I want you to 00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:50.857 tell us the story. Tell us the story about you took your dance group off 00:29:50.890 --> 00:29:53.717 campus, different ones 00:29:53.750 --> 00:29:56.397 and they wouldn't service. What was the reason they did Charles was black 00:29:56.430 --> 00:30:02.806 ? Oh that's right, Charles Lewis was black and they wouldn't service. 00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:09.496 We just left. I think we all stood up and just left. And where was that? 00:30:09.529 --> 00:30:17.529 Is that in Paracel? And I know you're phoenix because I did teach in paris 00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:24.326 Benton gave me the one or the other? Yeah tip your phoenix somehow? I feel 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.407 like it's phoenix. 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:32.607 Uh huh. I've heard similar stories and Tucson, 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:38.306 could you tell the story about how you got your first peacock 00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:43.006 teaching dance history you? 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.907 Oh I think you ought to tell it. 00:30:46.940 --> 00:30:51.046 Mhm. We can put you on the mind and we'll do that after we finish with you. 00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:54.907 You want to tell us the stories first. 00:30:54.940 --> 00:31:00.066 Well let me see um 00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:03.707 in the middle ages. 00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:06.897 The people with money 00:31:06.930 --> 00:31:13.006 would have the food brought to them with the peacock draw, pulling the 00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:20.187 cart with the fruit on it and uh that was a bit unique. You know, it's 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:25.107 Danny peacocks drawing food around here. 00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:33.140 Uh huh. Uh I guess that was about it on that. 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:40.336 Oh well that's right. When I retired, the students gave me a peacock, 00:31:40.369 --> 00:31:47.976 a real live peacock and I had it for a long time. What was somebody killed 00:31:48.009 --> 00:31:53.986 him? Mm hmm. Yeah, I think somebody killed it. 00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:59.677 I guess they thought it was too noisy because they are very noisy and I've 00:31:59.710 --> 00:32:02.046 never heard of peacocks pulling carts though, I didn't know you could 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.516 train them to do that. Yeah, they did in the Middle Ages. I think it was 00:32:05.549 --> 00:32:11.086 the Middle Ages. Yeah. Mhm. So did you like peacocks? Is that why the 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:15.387 students, did they know you like peacocks? Well, I guess I talked about it 00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:17.806 in class 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:22.887 and so they decided, I don't know if it's a christmas present or something. 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.160 They went some place in town where they had peacocks and got me a peacock. 00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:30.839 And so the time they presented that I think the whole class sort of stood 00:32:32.690 --> 00:32:38.006 in two lines and then the one with the peacocks in the back and then they 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:42.717 walked in with a peacock between the two lines and the rest of the class 00:32:42.750 --> 00:32:49.927 and game show gave me the peacock, what did you think? Well, I thought it 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.667 was great. The only thing at the time, I didn't know what it's going to do 00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:58.927 with it. But I think I learned a little bit about pickups because somebody 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:05.016 not to there was a peacock farm not too far from where I lived. So I found 00:33:05.049 --> 00:33:11.907 out how to feed it and stuff. So that helped. 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:17.306 I want to see something else. Well did you have a special harness made? 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:20.207 Yes I did. 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.707 Yes 00:33:23.740 --> 00:33:29.457 I decided to have a harness so I could keep track of them pick up. And I 00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:36.566 went into the store where they made things stuff like that. And I said I 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:42.417 would like to have a harness for a peacock please. They looked at me and 00:33:42.450 --> 00:33:45.137 thought I was crazy. 00:33:45.170 --> 00:33:53.170 Is that my story more? Oh yes. So they did they made one for me. What did 00:33:54.670 --> 00:33:59.357 your peacock think of it? Well I think he handled it pretty well don't you 00:33:59.390 --> 00:34:04.776 think? Or is she? You put it on him and he just shook once and stepped out. 00:34:04.809 --> 00:34:11.066 Okay. All right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Put it on him 00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:14.506 and he just shook himself 00:34:14.539 --> 00:34:22.539 and there was the harness on the ground, shook it off of themselves. 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:30.739 They're too big. Well unusual for him just because he wasn't used to. Mhm. 00:34:31.139 --> 00:34:37.057 So. Mhm. Mhm. What is it that that you remember most about the time you 00:34:37.090 --> 00:34:45.090 spent here at a S. U. 00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:54.039 Mhm. 00:34:56.340 --> 00:35:02.606 Well after one thing I think I enjoyed meeting new friends 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:08.807 and 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:13.276 I guess studying new things. 00:35:13.309 --> 00:35:16.506 My Lady Sylvia. 00:35:16.539 --> 00:35:22.637 Where did the dancers perform when you came to a. S. U. Over in what it 00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:30.670 was a building called more building. The more building they had a uh floor 00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:36.157 and they sometimes sometimes had performances there. So it was already 00:35:36.190 --> 00:35:40.407 ready for my dad's class 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:46.006 two we had in the more building 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:51.997 so that when they built the Gammage Auditorium 00:35:52.030 --> 00:35:57.006 with that being built. Yes I do. 00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.606 Yeah. 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:04.396 Well beth come on. 00:36:04.429 --> 00:36:08.796 Oh that's right. I was on the committee that helped build a planet. Uh huh. 00:36:08.829 --> 00:36:13.356 That's right. They were going to leave something out. What was it? 00:36:13.389 --> 00:36:19.867 Well I think that was the other in the charter dance performances were in 00:36:19.900 --> 00:36:24.447 the chart and the charter building 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:29.947 damage. Oh yes that's right okay. So tell me you were what was this 00:36:29.980 --> 00:36:33.026 committee that you were? 00:36:33.059 --> 00:36:35.497 Ah 00:36:35.530 --> 00:36:39.296 I don't mind sitting here in my mind is a blank 00:36:39.329 --> 00:36:43.697 speak for me Beth 00:36:43.730 --> 00:36:51.287 Okay. Do you remember when when damage opened? What what was it like? I do 00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:58.796 kind of remember when it opened? Yeah it was a big affair. Ah 00:36:58.829 --> 00:37:03.896 I think everybody would was going around to see what rooms were wearing 00:37:03.929 --> 00:37:09.697 and where the studio was. 00:37:09.730 --> 00:37:17.730 Right damage. Oh pes building. Yeah. Oh yeah okay it's been a very busy 00:37:20.690 --> 00:37:23.197 year. 00:37:23.230 --> 00:37:29.747 What's busy here but a fun year? Yeah I'm here. What did you think about 00:37:29.780 --> 00:37:33.157 the Gammage Auditorium when that opened? Did you did you ever get to 00:37:33.190 --> 00:37:35.697 perform there? 00:37:35.730 --> 00:37:42.046 You want to answer that? Mhm. I don't know whether you personally. 00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.677 Yes 00:37:44.710 --> 00:37:50.577 performing but by then you weren't performing anymore. I don't think so. I 00:37:50.610 --> 00:37:55.767 don't think so. Yeah. How was it for for dancers? What did they enjoy 00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:01.137 performing there? What was it like for dancers to perform it? 00:38:01.170 --> 00:38:08.356 Well, I think they had a good feeling about it. Maybe had because it was a 00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:13.347 special place. It's a special place. 00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:16.086 And uh 00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:19.686 what made it special? 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:25.186 Well the space, it was an excellent space 00:38:25.219 --> 00:38:29.447 for it and I think that made it special 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:37.480 and then to get to performing damage was special. See ah 00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:43.586 was damage on the board? 00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:47.686 Was he ever on the board? 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:55.037 No damage himself. Greater damage was named after him. He had passed away. 00:38:55.070 --> 00:39:03.070 You may be right. Perfect heaven. I think I met her. Yeah. Okay damage 00:39:03.909 --> 00:39:10.646 right. Yeah. Yeah. What was she like? I didn't know her as well. It just 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:18.679 seemed very nice and or as well. Yeah. Anything else that you want to tell 00:39:19.110 --> 00:39:25.057 us about your time here, Koroleva. She's got the memory. I don't have the 00:39:25.090 --> 00:39:28.387 memory. She's got the memory. 00:39:28.420 --> 00:39:35.896 I think you should tell them that have been honored several times. 00:39:35.929 --> 00:39:43.166 I don't remember Indiana State. Stay back Indiana State. I graduated from 00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.887 indiana State University. 00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.856 Oh yes 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:55.307 in their hall of Fame. Tell me about it. 00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:59.387 Why don't you tell 00:39:59.420 --> 00:40:04.876 and you have an honorary degree from indiana state. That's true. 00:40:04.909 --> 00:40:11.347 I I have an honorary degree from uh 00:40:11.380 --> 00:40:18.066 indiana state. You've been inducted into the national italian american 00:40:18.099 --> 00:40:23.887 Sports Hall of Fame. Can you say that all back to her? Mhm. Have been 00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:30.677 inducted, silly there in the italian 00:40:30.710 --> 00:40:36.517 national national italian Hall of Fame. Sports Hall of Fame. Right. Sports 00:40:36.550 --> 00:40:44.267 Hall of Fame. There's some pretty famous people in that hole George. Yeah. 00:40:44.300 --> 00:40:49.617 As a matter of fact I met joe DiMaggio and I said Chicago playing 00:40:49.650 --> 00:40:53.626 baseball. Yeah that's right. They weren't on the same team with him. That 00:40:53.659 --> 00:40:56.776 wasn't 00:40:56.809 --> 00:41:04.809 no. Oh I mean that was earlier earlier. He was before he was a yankee. A 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:12.097 yankee. Ryder was born in. 00:41:12.130 --> 00:41:17.407 Why don't you tell her about the back. Bye. Oh that's right, I forgot 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:21.276 about that. 00:41:21.309 --> 00:41:26.276 Ah The best you can do this better than I can. 00:41:26.309 --> 00:41:30.597 We'll get deathly. Uh 00:41:30.630 --> 00:41:36.776 let's see if this was in Chicago wasn't it? In Chicago. 00:41:36.809 --> 00:41:42.977 Oh and I went to, to the hotel 00:41:43.010 --> 00:41:47.646 but I was saying and the person behind the desk, oh by the way, I've got 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:54.356 something for you. Oh bay Bruce left this for you. It's a little bad that 00:41:54.389 --> 00:41:58.376 he signed but I still have. 00:41:58.409 --> 00:42:05.276 Yeah, I was, I was great while walking in there. Hey. Oh I've got 00:42:05.309 --> 00:42:10.086 something for you Babe Ruth left. Have you met Babe Ruth? I don't think I 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:17.396 had, I don't think I have met him. Had. I bet I don't think so. How did he 00:42:17.429 --> 00:42:22.566 know about you? Well there was a little publicity in the paper because I 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:27.816 was I played baseball and played baseball in my hometown. My brother Tony 00:42:27.849 --> 00:42:33.327 taught me how and all that business and so you were famous already? Well, 00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:37.967 I don't know. We're going around somehow. 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:44.936 And uh yeah, so we I lived we lived in a small town in indiana and the 00:42:44.969 --> 00:42:49.977 only thing they played there was baseball and my brother Tony played and 00:42:50.010 --> 00:42:54.876 he taught me how to play. That's how I got into it. Like he played pretty 00:42:54.909 --> 00:42:59.896 well. Well I guess I was I've been pretty well coordinated. And so that 00:42:59.929 --> 00:43:07.929 helped. When did you first start to dance? When did you first where Yes, 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.267 you want to answer that? 00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:19.166 Probably when I started to teach I think 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:24.267 and I started to teach. I think it's when I went into dance 00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:30.336 because I was interested in giving the students as much material as I 00:43:30.369 --> 00:43:34.467 could, you know, different kinds of material. 00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:39.367 And so I think that's why I did that, 00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:44.666 that certainly led to a lot of greater things. 00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:49.066 Some. Anyway. Yeah. What advice do you have for young people today that 00:43:49.099 --> 00:43:52.077 are trying to decide what kind of career they want or what they want to do 00:43:52.110 --> 00:43:57.537 with their life. What do you advise them? 00:43:57.570 --> 00:44:00.956 That's a biggie? 00:44:00.989 --> 00:44:07.256 Well, uh, 00:44:07.289 --> 00:44:14.316 I would guess whatever they want to go into it into, they should have a 00:44:14.349 --> 00:44:21.456 degree of excellence in that area. I don't I don't think that they want to. 00:44:21.489 --> 00:44:23.657 Yeah. 00:44:23.690 --> 00:44:28.896 Ah Going to an area as a professional and they don't know anything about 00:44:28.929 --> 00:44:34.017 it. Of course that's obvious I'm sure. But it's the only thing I could 00:44:34.050 --> 00:44:36.936 think of. 00:44:36.969 --> 00:44:42.046 If you want to come up with something we'll ask beth later. Okay, anything 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.387 else you want to tell us about the time you spent here at issue that you 00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:53.420 think it's important for people to know? 00:44:55.389 --> 00:44:59.756 Mm hmm. 00:44:59.789 --> 00:45:02.956 Mhm. 00:45:02.989 --> 00:45:05.697 They don't just tell me I have a short term memory. I'll have to tell you 00:45:05.730 --> 00:45:10.456 that. So I have already said that. You see it start to remember. I didn't 00:45:10.489 --> 00:45:17.256 remember that already said that. Ah. Mhm. 00:45:17.289 --> 00:45:21.456 So I have some sort of excuse. 00:45:21.489 --> 00:45:29.489 Uh Tell me something better. 00:45:30.090 --> 00:45:37.606 You were awarded the A. S. U. Distinguished Teaching Award in 197. Very 00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:43.657 high. But you've got to know all about it. I'd forgotten all about it. 00:45:43.690 --> 00:45:47.557 What years, 79, 00:45:47.590 --> 00:45:53.006 That's given the Distinguished Teacher Award for the University of Arizona 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:59.756 State. Got it. Got it. Right, so that the students give you that award 00:45:59.789 --> 00:46:03.526 nominated her the whole department 00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:08.057 university. Mhm. Mhm. 00:46:08.090 --> 00:46:13.867 And I like that. I bet to be nominated by your students in that department. 00:46:13.900 --> 00:46:19.077 You must have liked Arizona, you came out here and you stayed here for 00:46:19.110 --> 00:46:24.517 over 50 years. What do you what do you like about Arizona? Well I made 00:46:24.550 --> 00:46:27.546 good friends. 00:46:27.579 --> 00:46:30.947 Ah Here's one 00:46:30.980 --> 00:46:35.367 and well I actually I you know I like the weather here. What happens here 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:42.867 ? Actually? I'm from indiana. So we gotta have cold weather there. So it's 00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:49.117 nice to be in an area of it had warmer weather for one thing and it was 00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:57.150 new, you know, and since that's a challenge as well. 00:46:57.179 --> 00:47:00.046 Mm hmm, 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:06.206 mm hmm. What to leave out. Do you want to tell him how old you are? 00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:13.747 I can't even, I can't even remember that. What am I 91 91? Oh, okay. 00:47:13.780 --> 00:47:16.456 That's 00:47:16.489 --> 00:47:22.197 that's a milestone right there. That's why I can't remember. I guess 00:47:22.230 --> 00:47:24.747 that's good. Thank 00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:27.586 you very much for coming over and spending some time with us. Well, you're 00:47:27.619 --> 00:47:35.219 very welcome. I hope I've given you enough material. I don't know. So Okay.