we're here at the CSU visitors information center and I'd like to let you
introduce yourself, give me your full name position with
full name is donald v dot otherwise known as don dots. I was alumni
director for 26 years and went from there to the development office as a
fundraiser for five more years previous to being director, I was on the
staff 10 years so a total of 42 years on the staff long career.
We would jump back and talk a little bit more about how you end up here.
And I always like to start with just where you were when and where you
were born.
I have to give the year, don't I? November 7th 1935
in covina California.
Yes, right. I like to think so. It's very interesting. I want to, you did
your Aquafina colt. My brothers and sister were, but we moved here when I
was 10
so I know exactly where it is.
Well, tell me about where you grew up actually. My family moved here in
1947. I was 11.5 years old and my father moved 10 miles east of Mesa to
clear the desert land and start growing crops and of course now it's city
of Mesa and retirement villages and schools and all of that. But I felt
like a pioneer because it was virgin desert that we were bringing some
agriculture too. So I really grew up in Mesa went to Mesa schools Mesa
high school and then came to a S. U. From there. And what brought your
family to paris. Well the citrus crops in California weren't doing real
well. And my father decided that he could grow citrus and mesa which had a
great citrus orchard complex at that time. And uh he came over and started
planning citrus seedlings and while they were growing and started growing
other things cotton and all that and stayed with that. But it was the
condition of the citrus crop in California that sent him east and my two
older brothers and sister moved with us and we build a house out in the
desert and started from there. Well what did you think As a boy moving
here?
I probably didn't know better. But the summer started being pretty hot for
me and we lived in a tent for about four months while we built a house.
And my mother insisted that she take her 11 year old son to a motel. And
we lived there half the time because it was pretty rough. But I don't
think I could look back on growing up in the desert and then eventually
moving into Mesa with any misgivings. It was just a great experience. I
knew early on I wasn't going to be a farmer as the rest of my family were
Arizona state took care of that. So where did you go to high school? Mesa
high it was the only high school in Mesa at the time and big and had a
great experience there. What did you study or Well, Mesa high was I think
a pretty, pretty well regarded school at the time? I certainly became
socially well rounded uh because the city of Mesa kind of brings that
about, it was just a nice the city's living at the time small. Um I was
active as a student and um editor of the school paper and that type of
thing. So it kind of led me towards journalism at Arizona state
when you came to Arizona state. Mhm.
I'd like to tell you it was this wonderful academic reputation which I've
touted ever since. Uh it was really because I was the first in my family
to go to college and it was nearby. A lot of my friends were going to the
University of Arizona. I've counted my blessings. I didn't follow them. Mm
hmm. What were your first impressions on coming to big place? I think
probably, I don't know, 5000 students at the time. Um It was just a
fantastic experience. I lived at home in the first year my freshman year
and commuted and moved on campus my last three years and got totally
immersed in campus activities. Therefore had average grades. But the
people were terrific some of the faculty then, even though we weren't
nationally recognized in many fields were terrific people and I just
really, I feel blessed that we had the faculty. I had the faculty here at
A. S. U. Then Arizona state college that I had, what year was it follow 53
freshmen. What were you majoring majoring in journalism? We had I loved to
tell alumni this story. I tell alumni now that I'm a graduate of the
walter Cronkite School of Journalism and telecommunications
and it's a wonderful example of this university growing and enhancing my
degree. And I tell people that's what we're all about in the alumni and
and fundraising business. We're here to enhance the value of your degree.
And when I attended we had one full time faculty member, a couple of part
time faculty members in an unaccredited department of journalism. It just
was I was so lucky that that one faculty member unaccredited as he might
have been. Was the former editorial page editor for the hearst newspapers
in san Francisco. What a tremendous experience to study with Ernest J.
Hopkins, Hoppy. And so I just fell into a great curriculum there and of
course that one man, the department did grow into the Cronkite school and
I'm very proud of it. Tell me about Hoppy. Yeah
he was this
character smoked a pipe ashes flew everywhere and he I don't think I don't
think he could be called inaccessible by anyone. He was there all the time
and to listen to this guy talk about his first journalism days and to have
him tell you why what you wrote was nothing good at all and how to make it
better.
I knew we had a special faculty member. He later co wrote the alma mater
for a. S. U. And he authored the with Alfred Alfred thomas Jr the history
of the university at our 75th anniversary. So he was a great great sun
devil and a great faculty member. You know how he happened to end up here.
You know I don't remember the story why he came here. My guess is knowing
that president damage did this in many other cases that he found him and
said this guy looks good. I'm gonna hire him. Gambits had a way of
reaching out across the country and and finding people who had never heard
of Arizona State College at Tempe and bringing him here. That's my guess
that there were a number of professors that you had that were memorable.
Hopkins frank Byers drama. He was a professor of I think maybe english
and drama, I'm not sure but he was wonderful Shakespeare expert. I had
trouble catching all of Shakespeare as I should have because I was so busy
and other things. I took a summer course from frank buyers and I just
immersed myself in that course and he was terrific, terrific.
Um others or others who are great then that I didn't have a R Burton in
college of business. What was the accountancy school and it's now very
well known nationally accredited
accounting school. They are burdened with the tremendous guy um Pop
Gertler in english, what taught me freshman english, I don't know what his
real name was, but it was Pop Gertler and also in english uh liars, FM
frank Mayer, louis Louie Myers um got to know him more, I took one class
for him, got to know him better after I came back to the staff. Those
faculty names come to mind about those two in english. Pop Gredler was, I
don't know, he probably retired a year or two after I had a course from
him. I seemed to have been older than the university and but I remember my
impressionable freshman freshman year here, I was going into journalism, I
didn't know how good I might be. I kind of was a whiz in high school
english but who who knew if that meant anything but I really got a lot
from him and the use of language and expressing myself, he was not flashy
, he was just a good, solid, solid individual and maybe because he was, he
seemed so experienced and dare I say now at my age so old to me that I
just hung on every word he said, he was just a really good professor and
you actually called him papa, they called him pop another one at the time
, I never had a classroom got a, I got to be a really good friend of him
later of course, I think anyone who was in school in the fifties would
recognize the name of chuck southern, another english professor and he was
a wonderful sense of humor. He was commissioner of faculty representative
to the border conference for Arizona state College very involved in the
university and left the faculty probably a few years earlier than he
should have for health reasons. But he was a wonderful professor. English
department was pretty strong as I look back on it. Very, very good faculty.
You mentioned one other one that you did have a classroom frank buyers.
Um,
well I I never had a drama class although he was a good drama professor,
but I took Shakespeare from and because I was not giving enough time to my
reading during the regular school year, I thought the best time to read it
to take Shakespeare when I really wanted to learn. It was in the summer
when it was the only course I was taking. And so I just really lived it
with him and he was terrific. He was a thespian type reader of Shakespeare
and there's nothing dry about that course. He brought it to life. He was
that good. He was very good.
So you majored in journalism? What what were your plans at that time? I
had no earthly idea. I was in the army ROTC program. So I knew I had
active duty facing me. But after graduation I was what they called a six
month wonder. I went into six months active duty and 7.5 years reserve
after that. By the time I graduated, I was planning to marry the year
later and I actually got two job offers. Platt Cline, revered journalist
and Flagstaff hired me for the Flagstaff Daily Sun and Ward calvert at the
Mesa tribune hired me at my old hometown paper. So I told Platt Cline, no
, thank you. And I'm going to my hometown and a week before I was supposed
to report to the tribune, I walked into Gilbert, Katie's office, the vice
president of a S. You just to say hello, hi Gilbert, I'm back. I'm out of
the army. I'm getting married next week and he says, you've got to talk to
jimmy Chrisman, he's looking for an alumni editor. And the next day I
think I talked to jimmy and I was hired. We didn't have affirmative action
in those days. So I did not know I was going into university
administration, but it's just, it was a wonderful, wonderful decision. So
I was with jimmy for seven years as assistant director and editor. And
then he accepted a job with the Peace Corps administering a pro project in
brazil that a issue was in charge of. He was gone for almost three years
and I was acting director while he was gone. I always thought it looked
kind of strange on a resume. Acting for almost three years because they
not figure out if you were doing your job. But jimmy came back and about
my 10th year on the staff stayed, came back as director for a few months
and was moved to the president's office as an assistant to the president.
I took over as director then. What was your first job here then? Describe
for me what you actually did. I, I edited the Arizona statesman and it was
the name of our alumni magazine at the time, a quarterly. Um, and his
sister jim, he was the only so called professional alumni worker in the
office at the time. He had dedicated backup staff, clerical staff, but I
became the second professional higher in the alumni office. So I edited
the statesman with his tutelage. He had brought it up since its inception
10 years earlier. Um, almost 10 years earlier. And uh, I helped co direct
the Arizona statesman on the air. We did a television show every week.
Jimmy was a master at the media and so I kind of produce that for him and
channel eight across the campus
features interviews with jimmy doing it. Jim had been a wonderful radio
man before that great voice news news commentator, news reporter on Katie
are before he went into the war at the end of the thirties. So he was a
natural for that kind of thing. Tell me about that. What, what was the
station like then? It was in what's now the engine of the older
engineering complex and I think they had one studio
of course black and white, a couple of black and white cameras as I recall.
And we were often jimmy and I were often kind of coming up with questions
that he was going to ask the guests as we were running over to the studio
the day of the taping. Actually, I guess they did. I guess we kind of
scope that or taped it down. Yeah, it was taped, but um, it was a far cry
from what channel it is now, what year was that? Probably I started in 58
probably 58 59 maybe 60 a couple of years here, 60.
I was thinking 60. So it was that first year little stationed before they
were Yeah. In fact, we may have, I think we might have gone unofficial too
because I recall, um, before we moved from the administration building, we
were doing that and that was about 1960.
So we were probably pioneers and didn't know it. Mm What was the alumni
office? How many alumni did you read your, I really, I it just parallels a
tremendous growth of this university. It's, it's, it's wonderful to recall
because when I started in the fall of 57
no follow 58
we had 16,000 alumni on in our files and now we have 260,000
and jimmy told me that
in 1947 when Grady Gammage hired him out of the voice of America voice of
America to come back home. He inherited a shoebox with three by five cards.
And that was his alumni file
and not great addresses, I'm sure. And if you want a little anecdote there
, I'd like to tell you how jimmy really started the modern day alumni
association. He would go that first football season that fall. He would
walk up and down the, the stairs in the stadium at the game, handing out
information cards and saying, did you ever attend a S. A. S. C. Here, fill
this card out and leave it. And he built his alumni file by catching
people in the stands who came to the football games. And he often told me
he would go to alumni meetings. He organized alumni groups. This is 47 48
throughout the state, every county. He got an alumni organization going
and gave me a for instance, he went to Clifton's, the old hotel. They had
an alumni reception there and he had named a local chairman and he would
arrive about an hour before these meetings. And in Clifton's I recall he
said he was out there buttonholing people on the street outside the hotel.
Did you ever attend Arizona State College at 10 P. Come on in.
So we built, he built from 1947 and I joined him in 50 58 11 years later.
But he really built it became a great organization almost from scratch.
How many? 16,000. Our files. Yeah, well we still have the three by five
cards. We really did. But we had them on what they call an old address, a
graph plate, a metal plate that we mailed from. That was all the
information we had was name and address. The cards maybe had there their
degree and their major. But one of my first things when I took over as
director was to put all of our alumni files on the computer. So that must
have been about 60
five. And I was acting director. Yeah. When you first, your first job was
doing the public part of it. What kind of publication was it look like? I
thought it was a pretty darn good publication for a small college in the
desert. Another Chrisman anecdote. And you have to forgive me because
jimmy Chrisman was known as mr A. S you and I think it's a tragedy that we
don't have him here. He passed away just maybe three years ago to to tell
you this. But he was a great mentor and a wonderful guy. But jimmy was
hired by Grady Gammage. He had been a very active, high profile radio
person in Arizona after he graduated student body president here in the
mid thirties. So he was pretty well known. And Grady said this is the guy
who's gonna be my first full time alumni director. And jimmy told me about
driving from new york city where he was with the voice of America with his
wife Dorothy in an old Chevy I think it was driving through Ohio coming up
to columbus and he said to Dorothy I think there's a college here in
columbus Ohio I'll bet you they have an alumni department. I better go see
what I'm getting myself into. So he found the alumni director at Ohio
State University who happened to be Jack full in the guru of all alumni
directors. How jimmy could have known this Well, he couldn't have but he
dropped in on Jack Fuller who dropped everything for the rest of the day
and tutor jimmy and essentially what he told him was build your alumni
file which I told you he did and started publication and keep it regular
so they can look forward to hearing from you and have a tie to their to
their alma mater. So it was that publication
that those are basically the things that Jack fulin told jimmy. So is that
publication was jimmy started. I thought very well that I inherited Dean
smith who had been, it was at the time and there was a republic later came
to become are almost historian and everything for a issue. But Dean was
working part time with jimmy helping with the statesman and that was great
for me because I took over as editor and had this wonderful writer in Dean
and we work together. Um it was probably 32 pages and it had a lot of
class notes in the back. We were always told alumni want to read about
their classmates. So we did a lot of keeping up with people publishing
that, but it was not a learner journal. We later on published some pretty
good articles written by professors that were well worthwhile really, but
it was meant to keep the family together and as this place was growing so
quickly, I mean, people who had graduated five years before could look at
it and say, I don't know this place, it's growing so much and we do it now.
I there's a new building since I was here a year ago, I don't know this
and what's going on. Well, I think Jim did a great job and we tried to do
that later of keeping people abreast of what was happening on this
burgeoning campus. That's pretty much it was, it was good. It was a good,
I think looking back on it, probably one of the better alumni publications
around and we strove to make it better, What did it look like? Um
as I say, 32 pages, it was probably, I think it was printed letter press,
the old letter press process, maybe even at the Tempe Daily News for a
while. Um I know that press because I was there as a student editor of the
state press for two years, but um
later and soon after I joined, it was lithograph
um at a phoenix printer, I forget the name at this point,
uh, to color cover, but black and white inside, we didn't go to full color
until probably a decade and a half later. The graph, a lot of photographs
, a lot of snapshots from alumni with their new babies and that kind of
thing. But pretty good photography lithograph made that possible. A lot of
photographs because of developing campus. You've got to show the buildings
and show the maps and show what's happening.
Why was it so important to build this? Alumni?
Grady Gammage had a good way of looking about 100 miles south and saying
they're not going to get one up on us. And the University of Arizona had
had full time alumni staff, I'm sure for quite a while um,
the phoenix metropolitan area was worse recovering from the war and in
fact, people were flocking in here and the campus was just bursting at the
seams trying to keep up with the growth. And
I can't put words in greater damages mouth. But I'm sure that he said
we've got to have a good athletic program for pr and we've got to have
good pr overall as well as building a great institution because of about
the time we were working on both. He reached out to this guy who was
pretty well known in the phoenix community before he left for the war
brought jimmy back and I'm sure he had in his mind, we're going to have
someone on our staff who can get out in the community speak well. Which
jimmy did represent us, do things that other administrators can't do or
don't have the time to do in representing this university
and looking back on it, I think it was a really important decision. For
instance, the fundraising program which has been so successful,
started out of an old agricultural committee. They were some leading
agriculturalists in the valley in the mid forties as we were starting up
after the war who are helping us by a new farm farmland for our
agricultural program. And they kind of been shifted into the A. S. U.
Foundation. But it's interesting jimmy. Chrisman was the the online
director was the statutory agent for the new foundation. No one else was
there to do that kind of thing. And out of that grew a terrific
professional fundraising staff now that we have. But if there is anything
at all to do with the public with fundraising, with representing the
university out there, they turned to the alumni office because it should
have the capability and the resources to do that. We soon got more
resources and grew and did that kind of thing I think is really important
that this institution. No, there's someone there that can help further
advance the university
greatly damaged several times.
Well. He was president for 33 years and I just knew him
the last two or three as a staff member. But I knew him as a student for
five years, four years before that. Um He grew with this institution.
Ah
He was careful.
Um He worked for a board of regions which was totally dominated by the
arch rival.
Um Yet the phoenix area was demanding certain things at this institution
eventually that it become a university. And in 1958 my first year on the
staff, what a year to start
the alumni association again, something it can do that. Someone else in
the university can't
um
ran the campaign to change the name from Arizona state College to Arizona
state University. People who look at this years from now may wonder why in
the world did you have to do that? I mean why should you have to go to a
vote of the people to get a name for a university? Well the reason was the
University of Arizona dominated border regions even though they had
reorganized us as a university and we were listed that way by the U. S.
Board of education as a multipurpose university would not give us a
university name. Graduates wanted the name on their diplomas. And so I'm
getting back to Grady in a minute but the alumni association head of the
campaign and what a year for a young staff member to start out with
Chrisman. We we covered the state, we went to every county, we held name
change rallies. I got to know the alumni leaders throughout the state in
months. That was terrific. But the reason I bring it up now is because
Grady finally was committed to going around the board of regions to get
the name. Um,
and he put his head on the chopping block. He really did. He finally told
a group of young alumni in phoenix start the petitions, let's go for it.
And he told jimmy Chrisman, you're going to be the head of this campaign.
Um, he could have been fired and might have if, if we didn't win, but it
was a 2 to 1 win by a vote of the people of Arizona and I think we carried
all but three counties.
Pima santa Cruz and Yuma counties.
So it was a mandate really and I admired Grady for giving it the
leadership he did and saying this is what's right, not only for Arizona
state but for this region and for the state sticking his neck out and, and
getting it done. That's what he was like. He was, he was a builder. It was
definitely a builder.
Tell me again about why it was so important to change the name.
Well, you, you have to understand that other schools have done it by
enactment of their legislatures or their boards or whatever michigan state
college became michigan state University Oregon state became Oregon state
University. All these colleges with the influx of veterans coming back
from the war were just bursting at the seams and demands were everywhere
for new programs to be offered. We were no longer a teacher's college. We
were at best. Um, a liberal arts college with some teacher and business
emphasis and a burgeoning, uh, starting, starting an engineering program.
Um, Arizona state college really might describe a liberal arts college or
the education college, which we had had since our founding and was so good
, but it certainly didn't describe a multipurpose university with doctoral
degrees, which we were and the graduates really wanted to have a
university name on their diplomas.
I think it's the main reason, of course, it also meant so much for the,
for the region. Imagine phoenix huge metropolitan area is now without a
university in name.
So it had to do with the welfare of the, the phoenix community as well as
our own graduates. It seems to me,
did anything really changed as you became a university. Have the things
that changed?
I think we saw it almost immediately. I think we attracted better faculty.
I've told you how great. I thought the faculty were the several that I
had and new, but we were able to go out and compete for better faculty,
not only because of the name, but because of the expanding programs that
were being demanded by this area that came along and carried that name. Um
, I think we saw it immediately in recognition around the country.
Oh, yeah, Well, I guess they're university. Yeah maybe we ought to listen
hear more about them. I think we saw in research grants even though
research at the time was just a tiny part of what it is now.
Only recently were renamed what I don't know, six or eight years ago or
research one university by the Carnegie Foundation back in those early
days we had some research programs and I think I think it opened the gates
for more research grants and research faculty to come in. I think it's
really important. I think we saw the change quite quickly. Besides, it
helped us with our, with our battles with the other institutions in the
south, ironically, I don't know how many years later the other institution
in Flagstaff just breezed right through with a new name. Mm hmm. And
rightfully rightfully so. No none whatsoever.
Absolutely. Only places in the country had ever happened.
Oh yeah. We have a lot of families. It's a fun place to be, isn't it?
So, um tell me a little bit more about how your career progress.
I always kind of had christmas in my shadow. He was, he came from, I
mentioned Jack Full in the Ohio State. There were alumni directors around
the country who were kind of grand old men of their institutions and jimmy
became that the one man shop even though they had other staffers who were
so well known that they represented the institutions Jack Fuller at Ohio
State. The alumni director is a Berkeley stanford U. C. L. A. All were
kind of from that mold and jimmy fitted very well. One man shop. If you
thought alumni you'd give jimmy a call. If you thought the community,
let's call jimmy and see what he knows about it. But as the as the list of
graduates group, one person couldn't do everything. And we went from the
one man shop which he did so well. Two. It was a real challenge for me
admiring that model. But going to a larger staff and the more diverse
program and starting new programs that would serve this larger group of
alumni at the same time recognizing that they're not all teachers for a
few businesspeople who strayed from the education curriculum after they
graduated. But business graduates, engineers, social workers. A little
later lawyers. This diverse multi faceted university. Uh it's very
different to run an alumni association with that kind of that kind of
makeup. Um Later just before I left the alumni office we were starting
alumni associations at A. S. U. West and now A. S. U. East. Uh Years
before probably 25 30 years ago we started an alumni association in every
college on the Tempe campus. They all became a part of the of the big
association. Ah So things were changing and we were just kind of
scrambling and go back to Grady Gammage again as he would say. We're kind
of riding the wild horse, just keeping up with it,
going back to greater damage. Right about no, he passed away and mhm.
What's that? Well who knew 33 years but with Grady and Catherine Gammage
um who knew what to do with the new president.
I remember getting a call in the morning from a classmate of mine, an
alumnus in phoenix and uh I was getting ready to go to work and he said
this was in december just before christmas, he said, hey turn on the radio
Grady Gammage just died. And I mean how could we go about replacing the
person who had been a part of our lives for so long as an institution and
as individuals.
HD Richardson was the academic vice president, he was acting president for
probably almost a year
and they reached into Utah and hired this vice president from the
university of Utah jean homer Durham and he arrived on this campus with
everyone cheering for him. I mean gee you know, we need some help, We
don't know what to do without this longtime president and it turned out I
think he was just right for this institution. He, he came from an older,
diverse university. He brought a lot of experience there. Um one of my
favorite things about homer is we, I had him speak to a Tucson alumni
group and we had a packed house at a dinner. We had 100 and 50 people in
Tucson for this big dinner to meet the new president and that's when he
chose to ask for a law school at Arizona state right in the middle of the
U. Of a law. All right audience.
But um, what was the reaction?
I think we immediately I started picking up on some yes, but I would say
yes, but this state is growing and the metropolitan area of phoenix needs
a law school and besides it costs less than an english department. I
remember those phrases.
I don't think there was a lot of opposition. I think he chose that battle
very wisely.
I'm not sure what your question was now, but you go ahead, pick up on it.
If I were president, how different it was different.
He started some new schools, social work, law. Um, I'm sure I'm missing
other, missing some maybe nursing, I'm not sure. But we started with new
new colleges and programs which we had to do. And I think Homer was the
one to do that. What was he like personally?
Wonderful guy. I remember as a young alumni director sneaking out of the
office to go over to the old stadium, the old baseball stadium, which was
just behind the emu at the time. The more speaking up into the stands on a
weekday afternoon thinking I really should be in the office, but I'm going
to see what this bobby winkles baseball team is like I sneaked up there
and I sat down and kind of brushed against the next guy and homer says,
hello Don,
The president was there and we enjoyed the game together.
So I also know one of my greatest memories of homer. Durham was, I was
faced with probably the first time I had to relieve someone of their
duties on my staff.
This wasn't working out. I went to him, I kind of run my hands and I said
, you know, I have to do this. And he said, you just read, he said, take
your time, work it right, help the individual because remember that he has
a family
and that was homer. I learned a lot from that. I think he was the right
person for me besides having jimmy as a matter. I had a president who was
really the right kind of the right example. Good to work with
again about how you then became the director of the alumni. Well, I, I
mentioned that jimmy jim was bilingual and and I think he felt like he was
getting a little bit um, stale as alumni director. No way could he have.
But I think he felt he needed a new challenge. We have the name change
battle and he did a great job on that. And
three or four years after that, the Peace Corps was big and yes, you had,
he had contracted run some Peace corps projects and they drafted, drafted
, I was fiddling with the microphone. They drafted the, they drafted jemmy
to take over a Peace corps project in brazil Mato Grosso brazil and it was
a 2.5 or three year obligation. He and Loretta Hannah, I understand we're
interviewing too. I went down there because she went down to train nurses
in this interior brazil state. And so jimmy went down there and he was
Chief of party for the Peace Corps under a sus banner. And they turned to
the still in his twenties, Assistant director to take over. So I was
acting director for three years, 2.5 years. Jim came back and the
president asked me to come to his office then as an assistant
and they took the acting off my title. No big search. It just finally
happened. Mhm. So he didn't, so he never came back. Came back maybe for a
month. Yeah, but it was clear that he would, he wanted, he welcomed to
move somewhere else and it worked very well. So how long were you director
? I was director for 26 years.
And then as we were starting the big campaign, the campaign for excellence
, I moved to development and took over the campaign to restore old main,
which is kind of a natural the alumni association is there now it's it's
headquarters and I wasn't sure I like being a fundraiser. The bottom line
scared me in friend raising. You can say, look at all the friends we have
, but it's not how much have you raised today but I loved it and I thrived
on it and probably the reason is so many alumni knew who I was
and um I called one a cold call a big businessman in the bay area. Big he
just bought a pro team up there for $100 million. No one knew him. He was
our graduate. So I called him and said this is don dots from A. S. You and
he says don dots. I've been getting letters from you forever. So the doors
were open because of my tenure with the alumni association and we were
able to be successful in fundraising. I wasn't sure I would but it turned
out beautifully. So after 26 years I went to the big campaign and and we
dedicated old maine a couple of years ago.
Just run through the years then. What year was it that she left? I don't
know. Let's see. It was about 95 I think about a five.
Then you went went to the development office full time for about three
years and then part time retired and stayed on halftime 49% for a couple
of years to wrap up the old main campaign. Did you officially retired a
year and a half ago stepped right from that and the president of the S. U.
Retirees association? No. Well I am now
but that was fun too
as you look back over all of your years, are there any particular memories
that stand out to you?
Well the name change was almost a life changing event. I met people there
who have been my lifelong friends ever since.
Um And as I told you I got such a great education into the alumni business
in the state of Arizona. We just got everywhere was such an important
thing for the university. Um
I know you can look back on the fun things. The first Rose Bowl appearance
,
the second Rose bowl appearance but we beat michigan in the first one. Ah
Mhm. The alumni director serves on the athletic board ex officio and that
was a great experience
keeping close to that program through its good days and bad days.
I have an appreciation for those great people. One thing I remember which
is really a negative. Um I was working in my yard on a saturday and my son
comes out the front door and says hey dad they just fired frank kush and I
said no they couldn't have. So I turned on the radio and listen, we had a
game that night. I started at the stadium a little early because I was
supposed to help the president host the president's box. Regent members
board of Regents came up Don what in the world is going on incredibly the
border regions hadn't been warned. Um That was a tough time. You're fired
the president, the president's wife and fred miller, the athletic director
, but no one was prepared for. So frank had, and in fact frank had
announced it the day before. They were going to probably a pretty smart
move. That's why it was, everyone was caught unawares maybe for, for
history you got to run through how
well I'm not an expert on that. But I tell you, I became enmeshed in it
because alumni over the country were mainly, I rate that it happened frank.
What franklin frank Watson is still a revered individual. There was an
accusation that he had hit one of his players at a football game at the
University of Washington. Later we saw tape of it actually happening. But
the big problem was as it was in a Washington scandal. Also earlier the
cover up, he allegedly had instructed his assistant coaches not to talk
about it and have denied that it ever happened. So when evidence came out
that it had happened, fred miller, the athletic director moved
two remove frank from his job. That in a nutshell is what, what happened
more the cover up than the act, I think everyone knew frank was tough. I
used to say if my son were ever going to play football, I wanted to play
for frank because it's a tough, tough sport.
But when it happened, the way it did, people started taking sides. I
walked into the president's office several weeks after it happened,
there's this huge ceramic bowl on a file cabinet. It was just filled with
unopened letters.
And I said to the secretary, what in the world are these? And she said
there was a frank kush incident letters were never going to open.
So I think the whole thing was really handled badly in our office. We had
about six form letters
because you couldn't write a personal letter to everybody who complained.
We got hundreds of letters ourselves. But we would say to a secretary,
send this form letter, add my personal note, do this. I'll have to thank
you and all that. And we answered every single letter we got and we kept
the phone log of everyone who called in protesting or suggesting or
whatever and those are still in a big fat file that I think my successor
has somewhere labeled kush correspondence. Um, it was just a very
traumatic time for the university. Later, just a few years ago, we brought
frank back and we named cush field for him and he's on the athletic
department staff as an assistant to the athletic director. Too bad. It
happened the way it did. But you asked me about things I remember that. I
certainly remember that, but I don't know if you're gonna get to it next.
I know we don't want to take too much more time. But ah, there are a lot
of things happening because of the growth of the university and the growth
of the alumni association that, that I was asked to do one was the
president said to me in the early seventies, you know, there's not gonna
be any more state tax money for public relations or outreach programs.
You've got to get your own resources. So we started against a lot of
negative feeling a dues program. We asked alumni to pay dues for years.
They, when they graduated, they had gotten a card that said life member of
the Arizona State College Alumni Association. How many of those cards I
saw when I started a news program. I can't tell you because they say, look
, I was made a life member. I said yes, but how much did you pay? Well?
Nothing. And that explains why we need your money would like you to be a
paying life member or an annual member. And with that money, we were able
to expand the alumni program. We were able to be advocates for the
university politically because you can't do that with tax money. We could
use our own generated funds to do something else. I wanted to talk about
briefly start an alumni legislative network throughout the state in every
district in the state to start the state of day picnic, which we started
on statehood day at the state capitol. The alumni started that to advocate
for the university. Lord knows these days with budget cuts. We need
advocates and that's what we did many, many years ago. Um and I'll stop
talking in a minute. But speaking of revenue and the legislature, we also
started something that I think my colleagues at A. U. And U. Of a wondered
what in the world is dots trying to pull off here. We started the
collegiate license plate program and we took it through the Legislature
and it included all three universities but they didn't know what was going
on. And we handed them this revenue program and they love it because now
you see sparky plates and wildcat plates and lumberjack plates all around
the state. And the revenue from those collegiate plates goes to the
scholarship programs that all three institutions ours goes to the alumni
associations medallion of Merit Scholarship program, which I understand
feeling the microphone again sir, which is being expanded also by
fundraising. But another thing we started I'm proud of is the Medallion of
Merit Awards program to the Outstanding Junior in every high school in the
state. And with that goes a scholarship if they come to A. S. U. So that
program helps with that.
I've talked enough about. But those are things we're proud of. That's what
you're here to do is talk about those things. Um, let's see, we've already
some of these,
well as you look back, you know what, what you sort of if your accomplice
, they're using the proudest before. I think
I had a philosophy that students aren't students, their alumni and
residents.
And when you have a 50,000 student body, you don't get to know every
student. But we started some student programs. We co sponsored the
associated Students awards programs. We started what we call the student
alumni association, a service organization, which really carries on the
traditions of the university. They languished for a while. We started a
group called Devil's advocates. I'm very proud of that under homer
Durham's
tenure. He said we've got to get out to the high schools and let them know
about this school. The U. Of A is killing us and he said there's a vice
president and then a, you who used to be a school superintendent, He's
going around the state and he's killing us. So we started Devil's
Advocates and their purpose was to give campus tours and to speak at high
schools. Um, so I'm proud of that and that involves students. So we got to
know a lot of students while they were here alumni and residents and then
of course we knew them after they graduated. So I was proud of that. Quite
proud of that. Mhm. Um what was the question again? Okay. And I've already
mentioned, I've already mentioned the collegiate plates and Okay, Alright.
Oh brother. Yeah, I, I feel kind of self conscious talking about this
because I know alumni who graduated 50 years before I did and boy talk
about change, you know, because one of the best things we did was to host
alumni at their 50th anniversaries of their graduation. And I heard
stories then that were just incredible about what a small place it was.
Everybody knew everyone and that kind of thing. But from my freshman year
on, I'll tell you, as I said, it was a wild ride because probably my
freshman year, we had 10,000 students and when I graduated we had 20,000
students four years and it just kept going like that. Um
the physical plant,
we watched the steel girders go up on the curve of Apache boulevard as
Gammage Auditorium was don't
um, the new library,
the old library now, but it was new when we built it, things that mean so
much to an institution. We just saw all these things happening. Um, so it
changed just dramatically and the structure of the institution from a
couple of colleges are actually a college of education and a couple of
divisions
to um, I don't know what we have now, 12 or 13 colleges and the two branch
campuses, I've been retired for a couple of years, but I think it's 12 or
13 colleges. Um, just an amazing story. Just really fun to watch, fun to
be a part of
when, when Gammage Auditorium was that. It's such a landmark. People can't
imagine when it wasn't there,
Time magazine called it one of the great new music halls of the world and
they featured
at that time Lincoln center and damage and a couple others that had been
built about the same time on a cover story. I remember the big damage at
night photo that time carried with the full moon above it. It was
beautiful. Um,
and I also like to brag, but at that time Lincoln center was still going
through some adjustments for its acoustics. They didn't get it quite right
, but we had George Eisenhower from Yale University as our acquisition and
we had frank Lloyd Wright is the original architect.
So it was a very exciting thing for this small school, small school in to
, to see. Um, you know, it took three or four years to build it. So it was
exciting to see. I hosted a lot of tours of that building because we have
visiting alumni groups or reunion groups come back. So I got to know a lot
about it. It's a great resource. It was the phoenix symphonies home for
years until they built symphony hall. So it meant a lot to this community
. I think it still does.
What advice do you have for young people that are trying to choose a
college or choose a career. It's easy, just choose Arizona State
University.
Oh
no, I was just fell into it.
Ah we have so much to offer and one thing I haven't mentioned, give a lot
of credit to j russell nelson as president was the, the honors college. I
think we have so much to offer at this school on almost any level from the
average student to the honor student the honors college is a terrific
story. Um But you know I think that seriously if someone is in Arizona and
they should look at Arizona state.
Um If they get a full ride at an ivy league school. I understand but we
get a lot of students here who have that situation facing them because
they like the honors program. Um In reality I guess you just have to say
find a fit. I would tell students looking at colleges now find the right
fit don't necessarily just come to issue because it's here as I did. I'm
so happy I did but we have so much to offer. I wanted I would want to make
sure that student knew what we had here in his or her chosen field before
they make their choice. I feel like it's too big. Ah I used to do the
something else we started was sun devil receptions around the country for
students who have been accepted to A. S. U. We've held him on Long Island.
We've held him in Chicago. We've held them all over California and this I
don't know many large schools that do this but the local alumni and
parents host at someone's home an event early in the summer or late spring
for anyone who has been admitted to A. S. U. And they come and a lot of
them still have questions. They haven't made their final choice. I think
just that act shows them that we're a place that can help them and what
you know what I used to tell students and parents that those events was.
We're a huge university but we're a collection of very good small
colleges
and I really think that's true. I and I think laddie cours effort in the
last decade two to enhance the freshman experience as he called it to make
sure that more freshman classes are taught by tenured professors instead
of assistant assistance
and that the advising program is there in place for them. I don't know and
I get I still get calls from alumni whose students are here as freshmen
and they're in trouble and I know they can call me but I don't know many
people who have who would say that their student came to a. S. U. As a
freshman and wasn't well served. So I think you just counter that bigness
with the fact that it's a place that cares and we'll take good care of it.
You know there's a lot there are a lot of great things about being a
great big university and we just talked about. Gammage Auditorium and
intercollegiate sports and I don't know 500 student organizations. I mean
there's a kaleidoscope, they can get involved in anything that's a pretty
neat experience.
You mentioned a couple of the other presidents nelson and the core a
little bit about the president's. I've talked a lot about Grady,
he was followed by homer Durham. I talked a little bit about homer what a
fine individual he was.
And next came Harry, New Bern, Harry, New Bern was this revered person who
came to us after being president of the university of Oregon and he was
dean of our College of Education. I thought boy, what a coup. And I still
was pretty young then. But I called every dean by his first name Hi Mac hi
George. But I never called harry newborn hi harry because he was his
former president.
So I was just about ready to try. Hi harry on him and he was named
president.
So I went from the new Bern to President newborn. But he served I think
three years not acting. He said I want the full title but I'll serve for
three years. And then after he came and he was good, he had to make some
decisions too as we were growing so fast, move some people around and that
kind of thing that a three year president can do because he knew his
tenure and after him came john Suada a financial expert from the state of
Missouri um a former chief fiscal officer for the state of Missouri and we
thought, oh boy, he's gonna really help us with our legislative problems
and he was probably the right one to do that. But it was just a squirrely
situation at the time with the legislature and state finances. But he
tried hard. But we, he was, he was a good consolidator. I think he really
helped us grow.
That was john swatter and his tenure was tragically um, ended with the
kush mess. I don't think he ever got over that.
And after him came Gerald nelson.
I've talked about russell little bit the founding of the honors college.
But we went through the 100th anniversary of the institution with Russ.
He probably did the alumni circuit with me as well as anybody.
Someone at the University of Arizona said, well, and I forget who their
president was and I don't mean to detract from who was. You have a
president at the time. But they said, boy, that Russ nelson, He's a good
president and he looks like a president too. So, but he had this demeanor.
He was, I think a tremendous representative for us. You called him Russ.
He was rushed. In fact, we talked about Russ arriving before he arrived.
He sent the word I want to be Russ. Yeah. As Larry has also done. So I
think that about covers the press laddie. Um, what I say about him was how
a university president with 50,000 students and thousands of faculty
can be so well liked by all those factions. I don't know the man is
superhuman. Even the faculty, You won't find many faculty members of this
institution. We have a bad word to say about logic or
that's the first general impression I'd give you about laddie. But he was
, he was also a builder. He was a fundraiser to, he was our best
development officer. If we had a good prospect for saying maybe a little
$10 million gift and the person was properly prepared, you knew that time
was right. He was the one to clinch it. He was great. We talked about the
different presidents. What the role of the president is at the university
or our house. It changes the university by the personality of the
president. Well, I look back at the type of presidencies that that I know
and one was the greater damage type and it was the the individual as much
as the situation. But still he was the
he was the unquestioned leader of the institution that was small enough to
where everyone, everything went through. Grady or someone I should have
mentioned earlier. Gilbert, Katie, his vice president because Gilbert was
really his right hand person. But it was fairly easy even when even with
Homer Durham afterwards, when I hired a new alumni editor, Homer wanted to
meet him before I named him. I can imagine now the president meeting every
assistant director type who's hired on the campus. So things have changed
partly I think because of our tremendous growth. But also because I don't
think presidents do that probably anywhere anymore. There's more
delegation, They're more of a ceo they're more of a manager. Um, some come
from business because of their ceo or their management skills.
Um,
so I think that's the big difference of presidents now do a lot of
delegating. When I started off as alumni director, I reported to homer
Durham, I was on his staff and much to my chagrin couple presidents later
they named vice presidents for things and the director is reported to them.
It made for a much more efficient operation. Vice president for
university relations and now vice president for advancement, coordinates
such things as fundraising, government relations alumni and channel eight
in public programs and that's logical. Um, so that's, I think the big
change I've seen and I think the kind of people we get as our presidents
are hired with that with that in mind.
You know, I just heard a lot of the difference between like russell nelson
and laddie core, russell nelson so far. Mm hmm.
Yeah. And but I think some of that is personality because laddie delegated
like crazy, you know, um
I had, I had time as alumni director had time to meet with laddie and talk
with him maybe about something that's coming up that we're getting him
ready for. But the vice president was always there to be in the loop that
never happened earlier. So laddie delegated a lot too, but I think you
just have to go with laddies demeanor and see that he was so easy to talk
to. He was great at relating to people and homer was a little more
reserved, I mean not homer but rust was a little more reserved. So I think
that's a fair comparison
back in the early days.
Yes, he did. Right in the middle of the campus. Yeah, sure did. Can't
imagine a person. Oh yeah. But it was nice as a freshman to be on the
president's yard for the freshman reception with the president.
Those times have changed
when what go back. Not, not specifically right. I've been learning some
things that I didn't know. I can't imagine that
it's been very interesting. No, I didn't write anything down.
Yeah,
well you covered jimmy pretty well and I was glad that you did that. We do
need your Yeah, I really think so with that in mind. If I could say one
more thing I talked about Grady, I think he made some great hires and I'm
sure that he just reached out across the desert to these bastions of
knowledge on the east coast and plucked some pretty good people. But um,
he hired some alumni that he knew some products of our own institution who
really, I think it meant a lot to this growth and development of this
university. One of course was jimmy. The other was Alfred thomas JR, I
mentioned him briefly, but Alfred was the registrar and director of
admissions. He was um faculty representative to the athletic conference.
He was a stickler for for academic
credentials as a registrar should be. He was, he was a graduate. He heard
George Morel, someone told me once, I just always thought this university
was run by Grady Gammage and Gilbert Katy and Jorge Morel and George was
director of purchasing. Uh but of course a lot of things across his desk
and an alumnus, Gilbert Katie, vice president for business affairs, was a
graduate. Those people early, I think in the Postwar boom at this
institution were in place because Grady hired them in key positions and I
think those graduates, our own products really meant a lot to the
development of this institution. Even at the same time that Grady was
reaching across the continent to bring in some special people hired me. Of
course. Yeah,
that's right.
Some schools have it because because again, it's a big business these days
, so they hire people from elsewhere who have proven themselves. But I
can't imagine not being an alumnus of the institution where you're serving
that position, You talked about how small it was. Mhm locations to talk
about how, what the alumni department was like.
Well, we had um probably five employees. When I started
jimmy, his secretary, three records clerks and me
and Dean smith helping as a part timer.
And when I left, we had about 25 employees. The director and
to Associate director is one of the business manager
and two or three other program. People
plus
seven or eight. Development are seven or eight records keepers. So it's
just grew it grew a great deal. Um when I started we were on the old three
by five cards and the address a graph plates. When I left we were fully
into the computer age with all the information you want to know about. A
graduate of the university should know. Um in those files are giving
record very important for alumni and development to have this, their
preferences for whether they're football season ticket holders or what
their interests are. Whether or not we've had contact with them as well as
their academic information. So a big, big record system.
Big changes, comments may be use this term, but with the alumni
association be called. Yeah, it is big business. I mean I have to. Yeah,
exactly.
Yeah. And let me just give you an example. Um I'm talking to you.
I'll give you an example of how a big businesses, how it's become big
business because a few years before I moved over from alumni to
development, my wife and I were billed as hosts for a trip to europe by
the way, I didn't mention that I'm proud of the travel program we started
because it involved a lot of alumni with us that we got to know one or two.
I could tell you were a million dollar givers later we got to know them
through that kind of program but it was to serve the alumni too. And, and
anise and I were going to escort this trip. And it came up at a time when
the legislature was giving us fits and we had the legislative network out
there and I didn't really want to leave. But I looked at the brochure
which had our pictures, I knew about three or four friends who were going
because we were going and I thought I'm going to have to go because we're
going to make $5000 off this trip. And that was big to me. This is only a
few years before I stepped down. Probably early nineties
we went, it was fine legislature. We survived the legislative thing and
all that. But shortly after I left, we also had a credit card that a
company did with the sun devil on it and all of that. And um, and I liked
it and we made some money from that and we got, I think a $50,000 bonus to
sign up for that credit card from the bank. I thought big business, we can
good scholarship money.
A year after I left my successor was renegotiating the credit card
contract. You got a million dollars from the bank.
Talk about big business. Well now the banks aren't offering a million
dollars to sign up because the economy isn't isn't isn't right for it. But
that's just an example because we did do a lot of things entrepreneurial
that brought in some fees. So we could do things for the university and
every little 5000, even up to $50,000 meant a lot to us in addition to our
dues revenue. But now when you can go out with a nice big alumni list and
someone wants to market a product to them that you endorse, not just
everybody can do this of course, but it was a service that the association
would make money from. Million dollars. Just never entered my mind before.
That's big business. But also just running that biggest staff, um,
doing the publication itself full color. Um, four times a year. Still, but
bigger. Very expensive. So it's big business. It really is. The other
thing I would like for you to comment on a little bit more Don is is the
legislative how the, you know, alumni will host district,
right, coffees. Yeah, basically, yeah.
District meeting to meet your legislators and that kind of thing. And it
has that really paid off in the long run, I think it's paid off a great
deal. Um,
we started a couple of decades ago organizing alumni in each legislative
district. And um,
the reason was we, again, the are lobbyists for the institution and the
president gets to know legislators pretty well, but they want to hear from
people in their district who live and vote in their district. And so we
organized people say in district 30 in Mesa to have a reception or a
coffee or maybe not a coffee in Mesa, but reception in Mesa. Uh, and we
get 40 50 60 alumni to turn out for that event. And usually we get all
three legislators, the two representatives in the senator and they'd meet
their friends and neighbors and say, I didn't know you went to Arizona
state and that's great. And they put local faces with the institution. I
think it paid off very, very well. Um, in in the flush times when the
state did have some surplus a few years ago before we gave it away in tax
refunds. Um, ah I think it paid off because we were able to expand a
little bit um, in the hard times. I think it's really necessary because
slash slashes could really be devastating and you have to have people who
can pick up the phone and say senator. So, and so this is joe you know,
can you help here? I just want you to know I care about this or that. I
think it's very important. They say all politics is local. So when you're
organized by district, I think it pays off and their alumni and parents
and fans there who want to help. So I I think it was a very successful
effort. It still is, Have you seen the legislature changed over the years
?
I go back to the,
to the term limits decision that was made by the voters and I regret it
because we used to have legislators. Yes, they were there forever, some of
them, but they knew what they were doing. And if they were if they were
less than honest or whatever, they'd get turned out. But if they had been
there a while, Harold guest comes to mind from Yuma, the state senator
from Yuma, this was 30 years ago.
You know, you could go to Harold and he could tell you how to get
something done in the state senate Burton bar in the House of
Representatives the same way term limits didn't turn burnt out because he
knew this state. He was a relatively conservative Republican who could
bring liberal democrats and republicans together in the same room, lock
the door and say, we're going to make this decision and it got made. You
don't see that now, there's no one, I think this is very personal opinion
, but there's no one in the Legislature now that I can name who has that
kind of expertise because we turn them out every what, eight years or
whatever. Um I used to always say we have term limits. It's called
Election Day, maybe it didn't work the way it should have. But I really
think it's made a big difference. So today, I think you have more people
there with their own personal agendas who haven't really become a part of
of the state wide concerns. They just represent their own little district
and I think that's very important. But I think it's good to have a
statesman now and then. I don't see a lot of statesmen.
No, I couldn't stand it.
I admire harry Mitchell are wonderful senator from Tempe. I admire Doug
Todd who was a senator is now county treasurer, great alumni and great
friends. I just admire them for doing it but I couldn't put up with it. I
never thought about what you would you have not gotten this job taken one
of your other journalists. Mhm. What might have done differently? I
thought of it. Higher education isn't really great painting but neither is
a beat reporter for a small town newspaper, a great paying job. So I
probably would have tried to get out of it and go into something else.
Business maybe pr for business, that type of thing. I don't know I've
given that some thought but I've unfortunately I didn't have to make that
decision.
No I no I understand that. I did a little bit of that. Yeah.
Okay.
And its historical, it just goes back to I remember covering one of the
stories that was memorable to me. It was when the library was dedicated.
Carl Hayden came to speak and we shot the heck out of it. Uncle Carl.
Yeah, he was an incredible guy and he didn't speak in public very often.
So do you remember remember very well I visited with Carl in his in his
townhouse. Um and near Shalimar golf club here in Tempe after he retired,
he lived there, visited with him a couple of times. He was temporal normal
school class of 96 and one of our revered alarms. So every time Chrisman
went to Washington, d. C. Drop in on uncle Carl and I did that a couple of
times, but he was a great guy. Um I also remember the dedication of the
library because Carl was there. It's a Charles trumble Hayden library
named after his father,
but also the governor at the time was Sam Goddard who was well known to us
as a Tucson and through and through and the governor stood up and started
his remarks by saying looking at the crowd and saying, well the normal
school finally has a library
and I didn't know how to take that. I love boys rubbing it in, you know
this Tucson and it's getting to us. I liked Sam as a governor but I
thought that was a little, maybe a little too much. But I do remember very
well Carl Hayden being there. It was a it was a wonderful day to have him
there with his family's name on that. The most important building on the
campus. The library. I always just assumed it was named for Karl because
you don't really see the full name. Yeah. Do you remember what he, what he
said in his remarks, I don't they were brief. I know
um very modest. I know.
What was he like. Well, when I got to know him, he was, had retired
and uh,
he would talk about his days as a county sheriff growing up in Tempe.
That's about it. He certainly was not, he could have bragged about
everything. He'd done everyone he knew, but he never did that. Very modest
man. Great leader for the state. I'll tell you that. I mean for this state
as small as it was at the time he served having the clout that he had was
just tremendous. One of our noted alarms. So he went to stanford will give
him that. That's all right. Any other notes that come to mind. Um, steve
Allen was an alumnus, not a graduate but an alarm and we got to know steve
pretty well. He appeared at a Los Angeles events for us three or four
times
and he started a scholarship in the Cronkite school of steve Allen
scholarship. Um, I was just a great guy, Good friend. Um, I go back to the
name change years. I was thinking of people we knew in the name change
alumni who were involved in that big important battle for us. In 1958 one
was Sherman Pain was the advertising director for Arizona Public service
directed our advertising for us. The other was a young banker named Ed
Carson, whoever was there historically. Whenever he moved up in the bank
first National Bank of Arizona then was named the youngest whatever in the
history of the bank and he was vice president at the time. He was a he was
the treasurer of the name change drive and another stanford graduate,
Wally, Gosh I can't think of a judge, walter reed Craig was chairman of
friends for issue.
Um and keith Turley was active later became president of Arizona public
service company of course, said Carson then later went on to become
chairman of the board of Wells Fargo and the benefactor of some great
things on this campus. Great gifts during our big campaign just recently
and was co chairman of that campaign. But I just remember, yeah, some
great alumni who went on to do well and never forgot their alma mater.
You mentioned the Cronkite school that didn't used to claim that that was
that's my school.
Well I remember someone asked walter Cronkite
since you went to the University of texas mr Cronkite, why did you allow
your name to be put on the journalism school at Arizona State University
And he said, and I think it's a great fundraisers lesson, he said because
they asked me,
I think the key to that was oh who was the longtime owner of Channel 10.
In fact tom chauncey went to him Tom was on the CBS board representing the
station owners and tom went to walter and said there's this great program
here we need you to help. I think it's because he couldn't turn turn tom
chauncey down. I also think he never regretted it. I mean he has, he comes
out every november. He spends time in the classrooms. I mean, how
wonderful is this for a young journalist to have walter Cronkite there in
your classroom, One story about walter. We had him, he was back for
homecoming and he helped introduce, he was down on the field with
homecoming royalty at halftime and it was just a wonderful time afterwards.
We had a homecoming party at the Tempe palms Hotel
and someone came into the ballroom and he said, I just met walter Cronkite
and I said, well, yeah, I know he's here. He's staying here. He said no,
no. He says, I got on the elevator and there was this man standing there
and he looks at me and says, hi, I'm walter Cronkite
as though you wouldn't know it anyway. Right. But he's been marvelous for
this school comes back every fall and it's a part of it. How important is
it to have that name on the journalist? Well, I think it's an attention
getter. But I think it also shows, I mean maybe the young people today
don't appreciate who uncle walter is, you know, but a lot of us went to
the moon with him and we uh, we buried JFK with him and that would be the
most trusted man in America whether everyone believed that or not, it
became the moniker that he was dubbed with. Uh it means a lot. And I've
and if young students today don't realize everything that walter Cronkite
was they certainly learn it when they get to A S. U. I think so. It's not
only a grabber but I think it shows our commitment to excellence in this
in that particular program.
The other little events and things like that.
It's like,
no, I think I've wriggled you as much as this old man. This old mind can
remember.
Yeah, okay. They're all fascinating little tip. It's been fun to recall
them. So if you can think of anymore, I don't have any specific questions
.
I don't either right now. I, you know, I think that done really great
would be interested to know that Sam Goddard has given all of his personal
papers to the Hayden library. Well, you know, I I probably, when did that
happen? I think I noticed it and I remembered the dedication of the
building comments. That's wonderful. I love it. I love it. We
sorry about it. Okay. I thought of one more thing. It just goes back to
Grady Gammage.
Um
We not only had a football rivalry, but we had a band rivalry, A marching
band rivalry and our sun Devil marching band was getting bigger and bigger
and we noticed that the big game down in Tucson that next fall, whatever
it was 58 59 the Wildcat band had become huge. They got new uniforms and
all that and Grady looked at jimmy Chrisman and he said, we're pushing him.
He says we're gonna make a great university out of that place yet.
Competition is good. What do you got damaged? How does the auditorium come
to help? I think he died before it was built as did in fact he and frank
Lloyd wright died just about the same time. I think in late 59 and there
was just kind of, I think it was just assumed, I think the region's just
made it like that. A decision like that. That had to be named for damage.
Did you ever know franklin? I met him a couple of times with his cape
walking through the union building and it's a pork pie hat. He was really
pretty close to the damages because they go to tal es and to their winter
home and, or for events and frank Lloyd wright was their guest and he and
his wife and their home on campus. Pretty nice relationship. So I think it
was great that the two names go together on the building. Somebody
mentioned to me, it seems a shame that buildings are not named anymore for
notable people, but for whoever gives donors. Yeah. How do you feel about
that? Well, I think that's a shame too.
We have,
we have the J russell and Benita nelson Fine arts Center. Um, that's an
appreciation for some great work. I think we have a lot of examples on our
campus that are that and I think that's the way it ought to be yet. If
someone gives us $10 million I certainly don't begrudge putting their name
on a building because we couldn't have that if it wasn't for them. So I
think you have to do both. Do you ever see the day when do you have what
you need taken off the building because somebody died right would rise
from my grave and yes protest.
You know if that happened then this university would have lost its way. I
think you can't do that. But new buildings you don't have a name yet. Sure.
Yeah. It was also in the building names committee because of my quote
institutional memory unquote and we named the the language and literature
building for homer Durham quite posthumously. But I thought it was
important. And again recognizing the leader for what he did for this place.
To the oh yeah
all the BB more descendants. Yeah. Great. Yes.
It shouldn't forever important use there now too with the mars probe housethere