WEBVTT 00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:06.577 we're here at the CSU visitors information center and I'd like to let you 00:00:06.610 --> 00:00:13.556 introduce yourself, give me your full name position with 00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:19.157 full name is donald v dot otherwise known as don dots. I was alumni 00:00:19.190 --> 00:00:25.267 director for 26 years and went from there to the development office as a 00:00:25.300 --> 00:00:29.477 fundraiser for five more years previous to being director, I was on the 00:00:29.510 --> 00:00:36.307 staff 10 years so a total of 42 years on the staff long career. 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:40.766 We would jump back and talk a little bit more about how you end up here. 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:44.247 And I always like to start with just where you were when and where you 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.807 were born. 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:51.376 I have to give the year, don't I? November 7th 1935 00:00:51.409 --> 00:00:54.747 in covina California. 00:00:54.780 --> 00:01:00.696 Yes, right. I like to think so. It's very interesting. I want to, you did 00:01:00.729 --> 00:01:06.147 your Aquafina colt. My brothers and sister were, but we moved here when I 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:12.307 was 10 00:01:12.340 --> 00:01:16.107 so I know exactly where it is. 00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:20.897 Well, tell me about where you grew up actually. My family moved here in 00:01:20.930 --> 00:01:28.397 1947. I was 11.5 years old and my father moved 10 miles east of Mesa to 00:01:28.430 --> 00:01:32.316 clear the desert land and start growing crops and of course now it's city 00:01:32.349 --> 00:01:37.357 of Mesa and retirement villages and schools and all of that. But I felt 00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:42.527 like a pioneer because it was virgin desert that we were bringing some 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:46.837 agriculture too. So I really grew up in Mesa went to Mesa schools Mesa 00:01:46.870 --> 00:01:50.686 high school and then came to a S. U. From there. And what brought your 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:54.607 family to paris. Well the citrus crops in California weren't doing real 00:01:54.640 --> 00:02:00.307 well. And my father decided that he could grow citrus and mesa which had a 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:07.046 great citrus orchard complex at that time. And uh he came over and started 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:10.767 planning citrus seedlings and while they were growing and started growing 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.427 other things cotton and all that and stayed with that. But it was the 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:20.497 condition of the citrus crop in California that sent him east and my two 00:02:20.530 --> 00:02:25.156 older brothers and sister moved with us and we build a house out in the 00:02:25.189 --> 00:02:29.286 desert and started from there. Well what did you think As a boy moving 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:31.506 here? 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:36.017 I probably didn't know better. But the summer started being pretty hot for 00:02:36.050 --> 00:02:39.036 me and we lived in a tent for about four months while we built a house. 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:43.047 And my mother insisted that she take her 11 year old son to a motel. And 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:47.976 we lived there half the time because it was pretty rough. But I don't 00:02:48.009 --> 00:02:52.606 think I could look back on growing up in the desert and then eventually 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:57.057 moving into Mesa with any misgivings. It was just a great experience. I 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:01.106 knew early on I wasn't going to be a farmer as the rest of my family were 00:03:01.139 --> 00:03:05.867 Arizona state took care of that. So where did you go to high school? Mesa 00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:11.606 high it was the only high school in Mesa at the time and big and had a 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:18.346 great experience there. What did you study or Well, Mesa high was I think 00:03:18.379 --> 00:03:21.906 a pretty, pretty well regarded school at the time? I certainly became 00:03:21.939 --> 00:03:26.536 socially well rounded uh because the city of Mesa kind of brings that 00:03:26.569 --> 00:03:33.686 about, it was just a nice the city's living at the time small. Um I was 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:40.957 active as a student and um editor of the school paper and that type of 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:46.506 thing. So it kind of led me towards journalism at Arizona state 00:03:46.539 --> 00:03:51.606 when you came to Arizona state. Mhm. 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:56.106 I'd like to tell you it was this wonderful academic reputation which I've 00:03:56.139 --> 00:04:01.106 touted ever since. Uh it was really because I was the first in my family 00:04:01.139 --> 00:04:06.837 to go to college and it was nearby. A lot of my friends were going to the 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:11.997 University of Arizona. I've counted my blessings. I didn't follow them. Mm 00:04:12.030 --> 00:04:18.856 hmm. What were your first impressions on coming to big place? I think 00:04:18.889 --> 00:04:25.267 probably, I don't know, 5000 students at the time. Um It was just a 00:04:25.300 --> 00:04:28.556 fantastic experience. I lived at home in the first year my freshman year 00:04:28.589 --> 00:04:33.947 and commuted and moved on campus my last three years and got totally 00:04:33.980 --> 00:04:39.856 immersed in campus activities. Therefore had average grades. But the 00:04:39.889 --> 00:04:42.687 people were terrific some of the faculty then, even though we weren't 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:48.906 nationally recognized in many fields were terrific people and I just 00:04:48.939 --> 00:04:53.837 really, I feel blessed that we had the faculty. I had the faculty here at 00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:59.416 A. S. U. Then Arizona state college that I had, what year was it follow 53 00:04:59.449 --> 00:05:05.796 freshmen. What were you majoring majoring in journalism? We had I loved to 00:05:05.829 --> 00:05:10.796 tell alumni this story. I tell alumni now that I'm a graduate of the 00:05:10.829 --> 00:05:15.406 walter Cronkite School of Journalism and telecommunications 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:21.046 and it's a wonderful example of this university growing and enhancing my 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:25.187 degree. And I tell people that's what we're all about in the alumni and 00:05:25.220 --> 00:05:29.007 and fundraising business. We're here to enhance the value of your degree. 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:34.846 And when I attended we had one full time faculty member, a couple of part 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:40.176 time faculty members in an unaccredited department of journalism. It just 00:05:40.209 --> 00:05:44.616 was I was so lucky that that one faculty member unaccredited as he might 00:05:44.649 --> 00:05:49.606 have been. Was the former editorial page editor for the hearst newspapers 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:53.817 in san Francisco. What a tremendous experience to study with Ernest J. 00:05:53.850 --> 00:05:59.796 Hopkins, Hoppy. And so I just fell into a great curriculum there and of 00:05:59.829 --> 00:06:05.156 course that one man, the department did grow into the Cronkite school and 00:06:05.189 --> 00:06:11.707 I'm very proud of it. Tell me about Hoppy. Yeah 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:14.806 he was this 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:22.839 character smoked a pipe ashes flew everywhere and he I don't think I don't 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:29.406 think he could be called inaccessible by anyone. He was there all the time 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:34.527 and to listen to this guy talk about his first journalism days and to have 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:41.046 him tell you why what you wrote was nothing good at all and how to make it 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:43.296 better. 00:06:43.329 --> 00:06:48.587 I knew we had a special faculty member. He later co wrote the alma mater 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:54.937 for a. S. U. And he authored the with Alfred Alfred thomas Jr the history 00:06:54.970 --> 00:06:59.707 of the university at our 75th anniversary. So he was a great great sun 00:06:59.740 --> 00:07:04.406 devil and a great faculty member. You know how he happened to end up here. 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:09.327 You know I don't remember the story why he came here. My guess is knowing 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.567 that president damage did this in many other cases that he found him and 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.277 said this guy looks good. I'm gonna hire him. Gambits had a way of 00:07:17.310 --> 00:07:22.606 reaching out across the country and and finding people who had never heard 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:28.207 of Arizona State College at Tempe and bringing him here. That's my guess 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:33.416 that there were a number of professors that you had that were memorable. 00:07:33.449 --> 00:07:41.277 Hopkins frank Byers drama. He was a professor of I think maybe english 00:07:41.310 --> 00:07:47.257 and drama, I'm not sure but he was wonderful Shakespeare expert. I had 00:07:47.290 --> 00:07:52.986 trouble catching all of Shakespeare as I should have because I was so busy 00:07:53.019 --> 00:07:56.697 and other things. I took a summer course from frank buyers and I just 00:07:56.730 --> 00:08:01.906 immersed myself in that course and he was terrific, terrific. 00:08:01.939 --> 00:08:08.116 Um others or others who are great then that I didn't have a R Burton in 00:08:08.149 --> 00:08:13.606 college of business. What was the accountancy school and it's now very 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.207 well known nationally accredited 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:22.467 accounting school. They are burdened with the tremendous guy um Pop 00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:25.697 Gertler in english, what taught me freshman english, I don't know what his 00:08:25.730 --> 00:08:33.730 real name was, but it was Pop Gertler and also in english uh liars, FM 00:08:34.740 --> 00:08:41.297 frank Mayer, louis Louie Myers um got to know him more, I took one class 00:08:41.330 --> 00:08:45.557 for him, got to know him better after I came back to the staff. Those 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:51.687 faculty names come to mind about those two in english. Pop Gredler was, I 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:54.567 don't know, he probably retired a year or two after I had a course from 00:08:54.600 --> 00:09:00.047 him. I seemed to have been older than the university and but I remember my 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.496 impressionable freshman freshman year here, I was going into journalism, I 00:09:03.529 --> 00:09:08.646 didn't know how good I might be. I kind of was a whiz in high school 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:11.817 english but who who knew if that meant anything but I really got a lot 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:19.850 from him and the use of language and expressing myself, he was not flashy 00:09:19.990 --> 00:09:26.986 , he was just a good, solid, solid individual and maybe because he was, he 00:09:27.019 --> 00:09:33.866 seemed so experienced and dare I say now at my age so old to me that I 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:39.256 just hung on every word he said, he was just a really good professor and 00:09:39.289 --> 00:09:42.927 you actually called him papa, they called him pop another one at the time 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.526 , I never had a classroom got a, I got to be a really good friend of him 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:49.736 later of course, I think anyone who was in school in the fifties would 00:09:49.769 --> 00:09:55.506 recognize the name of chuck southern, another english professor and he was 00:09:55.539 --> 00:10:01.506 a wonderful sense of humor. He was commissioner of faculty representative 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:05.626 to the border conference for Arizona state College very involved in the 00:10:05.659 --> 00:10:10.817 university and left the faculty probably a few years earlier than he 00:10:10.850 --> 00:10:16.726 should have for health reasons. But he was a wonderful professor. English 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:21.006 department was pretty strong as I look back on it. Very, very good faculty. 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:26.707 You mentioned one other one that you did have a classroom frank buyers. 00:10:26.740 --> 00:10:29.207 Um, 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:34.037 well I I never had a drama class although he was a good drama professor, 00:10:34.070 --> 00:10:40.396 but I took Shakespeare from and because I was not giving enough time to my 00:10:40.429 --> 00:10:44.817 reading during the regular school year, I thought the best time to read it 00:10:44.850 --> 00:10:48.526 to take Shakespeare when I really wanted to learn. It was in the summer 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.626 when it was the only course I was taking. And so I just really lived it 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:58.976 with him and he was terrific. He was a thespian type reader of Shakespeare 00:10:59.009 --> 00:11:03.526 and there's nothing dry about that course. He brought it to life. He was 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:07.717 that good. He was very good. 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:12.567 So you majored in journalism? What what were your plans at that time? I 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:19.177 had no earthly idea. I was in the army ROTC program. So I knew I had 00:11:19.210 --> 00:11:23.057 active duty facing me. But after graduation I was what they called a six 00:11:23.090 --> 00:11:28.837 month wonder. I went into six months active duty and 7.5 years reserve 00:11:28.870 --> 00:11:33.957 after that. By the time I graduated, I was planning to marry the year 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:39.346 later and I actually got two job offers. Platt Cline, revered journalist 00:11:39.379 --> 00:11:44.016 and Flagstaff hired me for the Flagstaff Daily Sun and Ward calvert at the 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:49.557 Mesa tribune hired me at my old hometown paper. So I told Platt Cline, no 00:11:49.590 --> 00:11:54.047 , thank you. And I'm going to my hometown and a week before I was supposed 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:59.047 to report to the tribune, I walked into Gilbert, Katie's office, the vice 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:02.766 president of a S. You just to say hello, hi Gilbert, I'm back. I'm out of 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:06.817 the army. I'm getting married next week and he says, you've got to talk to 00:12:06.850 --> 00:12:11.657 jimmy Chrisman, he's looking for an alumni editor. And the next day I 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:14.657 think I talked to jimmy and I was hired. We didn't have affirmative action 00:12:14.690 --> 00:12:20.746 in those days. So I did not know I was going into university 00:12:20.779 --> 00:12:25.396 administration, but it's just, it was a wonderful, wonderful decision. So 00:12:25.429 --> 00:12:32.077 I was with jimmy for seven years as assistant director and editor. And 00:12:32.110 --> 00:12:35.896 then he accepted a job with the Peace Corps administering a pro project in 00:12:35.929 --> 00:12:40.856 brazil that a issue was in charge of. He was gone for almost three years 00:12:40.889 --> 00:12:44.927 and I was acting director while he was gone. I always thought it looked 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:48.136 kind of strange on a resume. Acting for almost three years because they 00:12:48.169 --> 00:12:52.356 not figure out if you were doing your job. But jimmy came back and about 00:12:52.389 --> 00:12:56.486 my 10th year on the staff stayed, came back as director for a few months 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:01.106 and was moved to the president's office as an assistant to the president. 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:06.287 I took over as director then. What was your first job here then? Describe 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:10.476 for me what you actually did. I, I edited the Arizona statesman and it was 00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:16.467 the name of our alumni magazine at the time, a quarterly. Um, and his 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:22.136 sister jim, he was the only so called professional alumni worker in the 00:13:22.169 --> 00:13:27.896 office at the time. He had dedicated backup staff, clerical staff, but I 00:13:27.929 --> 00:13:32.846 became the second professional higher in the alumni office. So I edited 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:38.167 the statesman with his tutelage. He had brought it up since its inception 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:46.200 10 years earlier. Um, almost 10 years earlier. And uh, I helped co direct 00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:50.526 the Arizona statesman on the air. We did a television show every week. 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:57.116 Jimmy was a master at the media and so I kind of produce that for him and 00:13:57.149 --> 00:14:01.207 channel eight across the campus 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.986 features interviews with jimmy doing it. Jim had been a wonderful radio 00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:10.807 man before that great voice news news commentator, news reporter on Katie 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:14.947 are before he went into the war at the end of the thirties. So he was a 00:14:14.980 --> 00:14:19.567 natural for that kind of thing. Tell me about that. What, what was the 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:24.187 station like then? It was in what's now the engine of the older 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:29.167 engineering complex and I think they had one studio 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:35.006 of course black and white, a couple of black and white cameras as I recall. 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.146 And we were often jimmy and I were often kind of coming up with questions 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:45.087 that he was going to ask the guests as we were running over to the studio 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:49.226 the day of the taping. Actually, I guess they did. I guess we kind of 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:56.776 scope that or taped it down. Yeah, it was taped, but um, it was a far cry 00:14:56.809 --> 00:15:04.809 from what channel it is now, what year was that? Probably I started in 58 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:12.707 probably 58 59 maybe 60 a couple of years here, 60. 00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:17.626 I was thinking 60. So it was that first year little stationed before they 00:15:17.659 --> 00:15:22.437 were Yeah. In fact, we may have, I think we might have gone unofficial too 00:15:22.470 --> 00:15:28.337 because I recall, um, before we moved from the administration building, we 00:15:28.370 --> 00:15:32.006 were doing that and that was about 1960. 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:37.717 So we were probably pioneers and didn't know it. Mm What was the alumni 00:15:37.750 --> 00:15:45.657 office? How many alumni did you read your, I really, I it just parallels a 00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:49.907 tremendous growth of this university. It's, it's, it's wonderful to recall 00:15:49.940 --> 00:15:55.506 because when I started in the fall of 57 00:15:55.539 --> 00:15:58.606 no follow 58 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:06.639 we had 16,000 alumni on in our files and now we have 260,000 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.707 and jimmy told me that 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:14.667 in 1947 when Grady Gammage hired him out of the voice of America voice of 00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:19.986 America to come back home. He inherited a shoebox with three by five cards. 00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:23.307 And that was his alumni file 00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:27.746 and not great addresses, I'm sure. And if you want a little anecdote there 00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:31.827 , I'd like to tell you how jimmy really started the modern day alumni 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:39.087 association. He would go that first football season that fall. He would 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:44.516 walk up and down the, the stairs in the stadium at the game, handing out 00:16:44.549 --> 00:16:49.947 information cards and saying, did you ever attend a S. A. S. C. Here, fill 00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:55.646 this card out and leave it. And he built his alumni file by catching 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:59.787 people in the stands who came to the football games. And he often told me 00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:05.607 he would go to alumni meetings. He organized alumni groups. This is 47 48 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.687 throughout the state, every county. He got an alumni organization going 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:12.927 and gave me a for instance, he went to Clifton's, the old hotel. They had 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.437 an alumni reception there and he had named a local chairman and he would 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:21.217 arrive about an hour before these meetings. And in Clifton's I recall he 00:17:21.250 --> 00:17:26.407 said he was out there buttonholing people on the street outside the hotel. 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:32.607 Did you ever attend Arizona State College at 10 P. Come on in. 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:40.640 So we built, he built from 1947 and I joined him in 50 58 11 years later. 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:48.006 But he really built it became a great organization almost from scratch. 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:54.756 How many? 16,000. Our files. Yeah, well we still have the three by five 00:17:54.789 --> 00:17:59.066 cards. We really did. But we had them on what they call an old address, a 00:17:59.099 --> 00:18:03.076 graph plate, a metal plate that we mailed from. That was all the 00:18:03.109 --> 00:18:06.806 information we had was name and address. The cards maybe had there their 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:12.707 degree and their major. But one of my first things when I took over as 00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:17.657 director was to put all of our alumni files on the computer. So that must 00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:20.207 have been about 60 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:26.937 five. And I was acting director. Yeah. When you first, your first job was 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:33.867 doing the public part of it. What kind of publication was it look like? I 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:36.986 thought it was a pretty darn good publication for a small college in the 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:40.857 desert. Another Chrisman anecdote. And you have to forgive me because 00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:44.556 jimmy Chrisman was known as mr A. S you and I think it's a tragedy that we 00:18:44.589 --> 00:18:48.756 don't have him here. He passed away just maybe three years ago to to tell 00:18:48.789 --> 00:18:53.607 you this. But he was a great mentor and a wonderful guy. But jimmy was 00:18:53.640 --> 00:19:01.640 hired by Grady Gammage. He had been a very active, high profile radio 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:05.286 person in Arizona after he graduated student body president here in the 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:08.937 mid thirties. So he was pretty well known. And Grady said this is the guy 00:19:08.970 --> 00:19:12.786 who's gonna be my first full time alumni director. And jimmy told me about 00:19:12.819 --> 00:19:16.576 driving from new york city where he was with the voice of America with his 00:19:16.609 --> 00:19:22.256 wife Dorothy in an old Chevy I think it was driving through Ohio coming up 00:19:22.289 --> 00:19:26.117 to columbus and he said to Dorothy I think there's a college here in 00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:31.117 columbus Ohio I'll bet you they have an alumni department. I better go see 00:19:31.150 --> 00:19:35.536 what I'm getting myself into. So he found the alumni director at Ohio 00:19:35.569 --> 00:19:40.236 State University who happened to be Jack full in the guru of all alumni 00:19:40.269 --> 00:19:45.397 directors. How jimmy could have known this Well, he couldn't have but he 00:19:45.430 --> 00:19:48.347 dropped in on Jack Fuller who dropped everything for the rest of the day 00:19:48.380 --> 00:19:53.546 and tutor jimmy and essentially what he told him was build your alumni 00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:59.627 file which I told you he did and started publication and keep it regular 00:19:59.660 --> 00:20:03.816 so they can look forward to hearing from you and have a tie to their to 00:20:03.849 --> 00:20:08.607 their alma mater. So it was that publication 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.357 that those are basically the things that Jack fulin told jimmy. So is that 00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:17.407 publication was jimmy started. I thought very well that I inherited Dean 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:23.397 smith who had been, it was at the time and there was a republic later came 00:20:23.430 --> 00:20:29.016 to become are almost historian and everything for a issue. But Dean was 00:20:29.049 --> 00:20:32.697 working part time with jimmy helping with the statesman and that was great 00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:38.457 for me because I took over as editor and had this wonderful writer in Dean 00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:44.046 and we work together. Um it was probably 32 pages and it had a lot of 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:47.026 class notes in the back. We were always told alumni want to read about 00:20:47.059 --> 00:20:52.187 their classmates. So we did a lot of keeping up with people publishing 00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:58.457 that, but it was not a learner journal. We later on published some pretty 00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:02.986 good articles written by professors that were well worthwhile really, but 00:21:03.019 --> 00:21:07.586 it was meant to keep the family together and as this place was growing so 00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:11.107 quickly, I mean, people who had graduated five years before could look at 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:15.607 it and say, I don't know this place, it's growing so much and we do it now. 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.467 I there's a new building since I was here a year ago, I don't know this 00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:22.957 and what's going on. Well, I think Jim did a great job and we tried to do 00:21:22.990 --> 00:21:26.086 that later of keeping people abreast of what was happening on this 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:32.506 burgeoning campus. That's pretty much it was, it was good. It was a good, 00:21:32.539 --> 00:21:36.907 I think looking back on it, probably one of the better alumni publications 00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:44.940 around and we strove to make it better, What did it look like? Um 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:49.766 as I say, 32 pages, it was probably, I think it was printed letter press, 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.586 the old letter press process, maybe even at the Tempe Daily News for a 00:21:53.619 --> 00:21:58.286 while. Um I know that press because I was there as a student editor of the 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:03.506 state press for two years, but um 00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:08.407 later and soon after I joined, it was lithograph 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:13.707 um at a phoenix printer, I forget the name at this point, 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:20.217 uh, to color cover, but black and white inside, we didn't go to full color 00:22:20.250 --> 00:22:24.986 until probably a decade and a half later. The graph, a lot of photographs 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:30.107 , a lot of snapshots from alumni with their new babies and that kind of 00:22:30.140 --> 00:22:35.377 thing. But pretty good photography lithograph made that possible. A lot of 00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:38.566 photographs because of developing campus. You've got to show the buildings 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:43.907 and show the maps and show what's happening. 00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:49.197 Why was it so important to build this? Alumni? 00:22:49.230 --> 00:22:53.006 Grady Gammage had a good way of looking about 100 miles south and saying 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:57.996 they're not going to get one up on us. And the University of Arizona had 00:22:58.029 --> 00:23:04.877 had full time alumni staff, I'm sure for quite a while um, 00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:10.847 the phoenix metropolitan area was worse recovering from the war and in 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.597 fact, people were flocking in here and the campus was just bursting at the 00:23:14.630 --> 00:23:20.407 seams trying to keep up with the growth. And 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.776 I can't put words in greater damages mouth. But I'm sure that he said 00:23:24.809 --> 00:23:27.877 we've got to have a good athletic program for pr and we've got to have 00:23:27.910 --> 00:23:33.286 good pr overall as well as building a great institution because of about 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:37.417 the time we were working on both. He reached out to this guy who was 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:40.316 pretty well known in the phoenix community before he left for the war 00:23:40.349 --> 00:23:45.036 brought jimmy back and I'm sure he had in his mind, we're going to have 00:23:45.069 --> 00:23:49.486 someone on our staff who can get out in the community speak well. Which 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:55.296 jimmy did represent us, do things that other administrators can't do or 00:23:55.329 --> 00:23:59.806 don't have the time to do in representing this university 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:03.687 and looking back on it, I think it was a really important decision. For 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.806 instance, the fundraising program which has been so successful, 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:13.117 started out of an old agricultural committee. They were some leading 00:24:13.150 --> 00:24:16.927 agriculturalists in the valley in the mid forties as we were starting up 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:22.516 after the war who are helping us by a new farm farmland for our 00:24:22.549 --> 00:24:27.566 agricultural program. And they kind of been shifted into the A. S. U. 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:31.806 Foundation. But it's interesting jimmy. Chrisman was the the online 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.276 director was the statutory agent for the new foundation. No one else was 00:24:35.309 --> 00:24:38.736 there to do that kind of thing. And out of that grew a terrific 00:24:38.769 --> 00:24:43.907 professional fundraising staff now that we have. But if there is anything 00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:48.826 at all to do with the public with fundraising, with representing the 00:24:48.859 --> 00:24:55.157 university out there, they turned to the alumni office because it should 00:24:55.190 --> 00:24:58.316 have the capability and the resources to do that. We soon got more 00:24:58.349 --> 00:25:02.806 resources and grew and did that kind of thing I think is really important 00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:06.967 that this institution. No, there's someone there that can help further 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.407 advance the university 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.506 greatly damaged several times. 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:20.006 Well. He was president for 33 years and I just knew him 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:25.127 the last two or three as a staff member. But I knew him as a student for 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:33.107 five years, four years before that. Um He grew with this institution. 00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:35.306 Ah 00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:37.907 He was careful. 00:25:37.940 --> 00:25:42.197 Um He worked for a board of regions which was totally dominated by the 00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:44.506 arch rival. 00:25:44.539 --> 00:25:51.486 Um Yet the phoenix area was demanding certain things at this institution 00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:56.607 eventually that it become a university. And in 1958 my first year on the 00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.586 staff, what a year to start 00:25:59.619 --> 00:26:02.736 the alumni association again, something it can do that. Someone else in 00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.207 the university can't 00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.207 um 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.506 ran the campaign to change the name from Arizona state College to Arizona 00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:17.786 state University. People who look at this years from now may wonder why in 00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:21.316 the world did you have to do that? I mean why should you have to go to a 00:26:21.349 --> 00:26:25.576 vote of the people to get a name for a university? Well the reason was the 00:26:25.609 --> 00:26:29.036 University of Arizona dominated border regions even though they had 00:26:29.069 --> 00:26:34.667 reorganized us as a university and we were listed that way by the U. S. 00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:38.897 Board of education as a multipurpose university would not give us a 00:26:38.930 --> 00:26:44.546 university name. Graduates wanted the name on their diplomas. And so I'm 00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:49.016 getting back to Grady in a minute but the alumni association head of the 00:26:49.049 --> 00:26:53.016 campaign and what a year for a young staff member to start out with 00:26:53.049 --> 00:26:57.506 Chrisman. We we covered the state, we went to every county, we held name 00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:01.476 change rallies. I got to know the alumni leaders throughout the state in 00:27:01.509 --> 00:27:06.187 months. That was terrific. But the reason I bring it up now is because 00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:11.256 Grady finally was committed to going around the board of regions to get 00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:16.607 the name. Um, 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:20.457 and he put his head on the chopping block. He really did. He finally told 00:27:20.490 --> 00:27:25.177 a group of young alumni in phoenix start the petitions, let's go for it. 00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:29.506 And he told jimmy Chrisman, you're going to be the head of this campaign. 00:27:29.539 --> 00:27:34.746 Um, he could have been fired and might have if, if we didn't win, but it 00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:40.536 was a 2 to 1 win by a vote of the people of Arizona and I think we carried 00:27:40.569 --> 00:27:43.226 all but three counties. 00:27:43.259 --> 00:27:47.107 Pima santa Cruz and Yuma counties. 00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:52.187 So it was a mandate really and I admired Grady for giving it the 00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:56.296 leadership he did and saying this is what's right, not only for Arizona 00:27:56.329 --> 00:28:01.707 state but for this region and for the state sticking his neck out and, and 00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:05.117 getting it done. That's what he was like. He was, he was a builder. It was 00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:08.506 definitely a builder. 00:28:08.539 --> 00:28:13.006 Tell me again about why it was so important to change the name. 00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:18.556 Well, you, you have to understand that other schools have done it by 00:28:18.589 --> 00:28:22.066 enactment of their legislatures or their boards or whatever michigan state 00:28:22.099 --> 00:28:26.347 college became michigan state University Oregon state became Oregon state 00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:31.226 University. All these colleges with the influx of veterans coming back 00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:36.147 from the war were just bursting at the seams and demands were everywhere 00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:40.776 for new programs to be offered. We were no longer a teacher's college. We 00:28:40.809 --> 00:28:45.566 were at best. Um, a liberal arts college with some teacher and business 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:52.306 emphasis and a burgeoning, uh, starting, starting an engineering program. 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:59.066 Um, Arizona state college really might describe a liberal arts college or 00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:02.387 the education college, which we had had since our founding and was so good 00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:08.726 , but it certainly didn't describe a multipurpose university with doctoral 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:13.657 degrees, which we were and the graduates really wanted to have a 00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:16.907 university name on their diplomas. 00:29:16.940 --> 00:29:20.476 I think it's the main reason, of course, it also meant so much for the, 00:29:20.509 --> 00:29:27.347 for the region. Imagine phoenix huge metropolitan area is now without a 00:29:27.380 --> 00:29:30.806 university in name. 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:35.217 So it had to do with the welfare of the, the phoenix community as well as 00:29:35.250 --> 00:29:39.306 our own graduates. It seems to me, 00:29:39.339 --> 00:29:42.927 did anything really changed as you became a university. Have the things 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.806 that changed? 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.877 I think we saw it almost immediately. I think we attracted better faculty. 00:29:51.910 --> 00:29:55.907 I've told you how great. I thought the faculty were the several that I 00:29:55.940 --> 00:30:01.707 had and new, but we were able to go out and compete for better faculty, 00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:05.687 not only because of the name, but because of the expanding programs that 00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:11.306 were being demanded by this area that came along and carried that name. Um 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:17.506 , I think we saw it immediately in recognition around the country. 00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:21.306 Oh, yeah, Well, I guess they're university. Yeah maybe we ought to listen 00:30:21.339 --> 00:30:25.326 hear more about them. I think we saw in research grants even though 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:31.207 research at the time was just a tiny part of what it is now. 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.637 Only recently were renamed what I don't know, six or eight years ago or 00:30:34.670 --> 00:30:39.717 research one university by the Carnegie Foundation back in those early 00:30:39.750 --> 00:30:46.207 days we had some research programs and I think I think it opened the gates 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.867 for more research grants and research faculty to come in. I think it's 00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:55.976 really important. I think we saw the change quite quickly. Besides, it 00:30:56.009 --> 00:31:00.397 helped us with our, with our battles with the other institutions in the 00:31:00.430 --> 00:31:05.097 south, ironically, I don't know how many years later the other institution 00:31:05.130 --> 00:31:10.117 in Flagstaff just breezed right through with a new name. Mm hmm. And 00:31:10.150 --> 00:31:15.967 rightfully rightfully so. No none whatsoever. 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:21.407 Absolutely. Only places in the country had ever happened. 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:28.806 Oh yeah. We have a lot of families. It's a fun place to be, isn't it? 00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:36.839 So, um tell me a little bit more about how your career progress. 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:42.226 I always kind of had christmas in my shadow. He was, he came from, I 00:31:42.259 --> 00:31:46.056 mentioned Jack Full in the Ohio State. There were alumni directors around 00:31:46.089 --> 00:31:49.336 the country who were kind of grand old men of their institutions and jimmy 00:31:49.369 --> 00:31:53.407 became that the one man shop even though they had other staffers who were 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:57.607 so well known that they represented the institutions Jack Fuller at Ohio 00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:03.687 State. The alumni director is a Berkeley stanford U. C. L. A. All were 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:08.556 kind of from that mold and jimmy fitted very well. One man shop. If you 00:32:08.589 --> 00:32:13.147 thought alumni you'd give jimmy a call. If you thought the community, 00:32:13.180 --> 00:32:18.816 let's call jimmy and see what he knows about it. But as the as the list of 00:32:18.849 --> 00:32:23.726 graduates group, one person couldn't do everything. And we went from the 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:30.207 one man shop which he did so well. Two. It was a real challenge for me 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:38.240 admiring that model. But going to a larger staff and the more diverse 00:32:38.420 --> 00:32:43.127 program and starting new programs that would serve this larger group of 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:49.397 alumni at the same time recognizing that they're not all teachers for a 00:32:49.430 --> 00:32:52.427 few businesspeople who strayed from the education curriculum after they 00:32:52.460 --> 00:33:00.026 graduated. But business graduates, engineers, social workers. A little 00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:08.059 later lawyers. This diverse multi faceted university. Uh it's very 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:15.357 different to run an alumni association with that kind of that kind of 00:33:15.390 --> 00:33:22.127 makeup. Um Later just before I left the alumni office we were starting 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:28.776 alumni associations at A. S. U. West and now A. S. U. East. Uh Years 00:33:28.809 --> 00:33:33.857 before probably 25 30 years ago we started an alumni association in every 00:33:33.890 --> 00:33:38.016 college on the Tempe campus. They all became a part of the of the big 00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:43.056 association. Ah So things were changing and we were just kind of 00:33:43.089 --> 00:33:46.826 scrambling and go back to Grady Gammage again as he would say. We're kind 00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:53.806 of riding the wild horse, just keeping up with it, 00:33:53.839 --> 00:34:01.207 going back to greater damage. Right about no, he passed away and mhm. 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:09.240 What's that? Well who knew 33 years but with Grady and Catherine Gammage 00:34:10.539 --> 00:34:16.436 um who knew what to do with the new president. 00:34:16.469 --> 00:34:21.267 I remember getting a call in the morning from a classmate of mine, an 00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:25.896 alumnus in phoenix and uh I was getting ready to go to work and he said 00:34:25.929 --> 00:34:28.896 this was in december just before christmas, he said, hey turn on the radio 00:34:28.929 --> 00:34:36.296 Grady Gammage just died. And I mean how could we go about replacing the 00:34:36.329 --> 00:34:40.497 person who had been a part of our lives for so long as an institution and 00:34:40.530 --> 00:34:42.807 as individuals. 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.606 HD Richardson was the academic vice president, he was acting president for 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:49.686 probably almost a year 00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:54.037 and they reached into Utah and hired this vice president from the 00:34:54.070 --> 00:34:58.706 university of Utah jean homer Durham and he arrived on this campus with 00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:02.477 everyone cheering for him. I mean gee you know, we need some help, We 00:35:02.510 --> 00:35:06.566 don't know what to do without this longtime president and it turned out I 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:12.126 think he was just right for this institution. He, he came from an older, 00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:18.637 diverse university. He brought a lot of experience there. Um one of my 00:35:18.670 --> 00:35:22.646 favorite things about homer is we, I had him speak to a Tucson alumni 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:26.077 group and we had a packed house at a dinner. We had 100 and 50 people in 00:35:26.110 --> 00:35:30.126 Tucson for this big dinner to meet the new president and that's when he 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.856 chose to ask for a law school at Arizona state right in the middle of the 00:35:33.889 --> 00:35:38.807 U. Of a law. All right audience. 00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:44.856 But um, what was the reaction? 00:35:44.889 --> 00:35:50.756 I think we immediately I started picking up on some yes, but I would say 00:35:50.789 --> 00:35:55.546 yes, but this state is growing and the metropolitan area of phoenix needs 00:35:55.579 --> 00:35:59.236 a law school and besides it costs less than an english department. I 00:35:59.269 --> 00:36:02.896 remember those phrases. 00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:07.887 I don't think there was a lot of opposition. I think he chose that battle 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.796 very wisely. 00:36:10.829 --> 00:36:13.907 I'm not sure what your question was now, but you go ahead, pick up on it. 00:36:13.940 --> 00:36:21.940 If I were president, how different it was different. 00:36:24.329 --> 00:36:29.706 He started some new schools, social work, law. Um, I'm sure I'm missing 00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:34.497 other, missing some maybe nursing, I'm not sure. But we started with new 00:36:34.530 --> 00:36:39.057 new colleges and programs which we had to do. And I think Homer was the 00:36:39.090 --> 00:36:45.197 one to do that. What was he like personally? 00:36:45.230 --> 00:36:51.347 Wonderful guy. I remember as a young alumni director sneaking out of the 00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:56.546 office to go over to the old stadium, the old baseball stadium, which was 00:36:56.579 --> 00:37:01.916 just behind the emu at the time. The more speaking up into the stands on a 00:37:01.949 --> 00:37:04.847 weekday afternoon thinking I really should be in the office, but I'm going 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:09.646 to see what this bobby winkles baseball team is like I sneaked up there 00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.206 and I sat down and kind of brushed against the next guy and homer says, 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.097 hello Don, 00:37:16.130 --> 00:37:21.896 The president was there and we enjoyed the game together. 00:37:21.929 --> 00:37:26.727 So I also know one of my greatest memories of homer. Durham was, I was 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:31.227 faced with probably the first time I had to relieve someone of their 00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:34.396 duties on my staff. 00:37:34.429 --> 00:37:37.887 This wasn't working out. I went to him, I kind of run my hands and I said 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.477 , you know, I have to do this. And he said, you just read, he said, take 00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:47.916 your time, work it right, help the individual because remember that he has 00:37:47.949 --> 00:37:50.197 a family 00:37:50.230 --> 00:37:55.066 and that was homer. I learned a lot from that. I think he was the right 00:37:55.099 --> 00:37:59.086 person for me besides having jimmy as a matter. I had a president who was 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:07.119 really the right kind of the right example. Good to work with 00:38:07.820 --> 00:38:12.307 again about how you then became the director of the alumni. Well, I, I 00:38:12.340 --> 00:38:18.986 mentioned that jimmy jim was bilingual and and I think he felt like he was 00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:23.856 getting a little bit um, stale as alumni director. No way could he have. 00:38:23.889 --> 00:38:28.456 But I think he felt he needed a new challenge. We have the name change 00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:34.686 battle and he did a great job on that. And 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:40.186 three or four years after that, the Peace Corps was big and yes, you had, 00:38:40.219 --> 00:38:45.456 he had contracted run some Peace corps projects and they drafted, drafted 00:38:45.489 --> 00:38:51.057 , I was fiddling with the microphone. They drafted the, they drafted jemmy 00:38:51.090 --> 00:38:55.916 to take over a Peace corps project in brazil Mato Grosso brazil and it was 00:38:55.949 --> 00:39:00.907 a 2.5 or three year obligation. He and Loretta Hannah, I understand we're 00:39:00.940 --> 00:39:05.006 interviewing too. I went down there because she went down to train nurses 00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:11.066 in this interior brazil state. And so jimmy went down there and he was 00:39:11.099 --> 00:39:15.717 Chief of party for the Peace Corps under a sus banner. And they turned to 00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:20.117 the still in his twenties, Assistant director to take over. So I was 00:39:20.150 --> 00:39:25.026 acting director for three years, 2.5 years. Jim came back and the 00:39:25.059 --> 00:39:29.887 president asked me to come to his office then as an assistant 00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:36.197 and they took the acting off my title. No big search. It just finally 00:39:36.230 --> 00:39:40.977 happened. Mhm. So he didn't, so he never came back. Came back maybe for a 00:39:41.010 --> 00:39:46.166 month. Yeah, but it was clear that he would, he wanted, he welcomed to 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.796 move somewhere else and it worked very well. So how long were you director 00:39:49.829 --> 00:39:54.387 ? I was director for 26 years. 00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:58.287 And then as we were starting the big campaign, the campaign for excellence 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:03.876 , I moved to development and took over the campaign to restore old main, 00:40:03.909 --> 00:40:07.126 which is kind of a natural the alumni association is there now it's it's 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:12.977 headquarters and I wasn't sure I like being a fundraiser. The bottom line 00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:17.327 scared me in friend raising. You can say, look at all the friends we have 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:23.387 , but it's not how much have you raised today but I loved it and I thrived 00:40:23.420 --> 00:40:28.177 on it and probably the reason is so many alumni knew who I was 00:40:28.210 --> 00:40:35.477 and um I called one a cold call a big businessman in the bay area. Big he 00:40:35.510 --> 00:40:39.727 just bought a pro team up there for $100 million. No one knew him. He was 00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:45.617 our graduate. So I called him and said this is don dots from A. S. You and 00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:53.017 he says don dots. I've been getting letters from you forever. So the doors 00:40:53.050 --> 00:40:59.006 were open because of my tenure with the alumni association and we were 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.997 able to be successful in fundraising. I wasn't sure I would but it turned 00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:09.847 out beautifully. So after 26 years I went to the big campaign and and we 00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:15.177 dedicated old maine a couple of years ago. 00:41:15.210 --> 00:41:20.497 Just run through the years then. What year was it that she left? I don't 00:41:20.530 --> 00:41:28.477 know. Let's see. It was about 95 I think about a five. 00:41:28.510 --> 00:41:33.276 Then you went went to the development office full time for about three 00:41:33.309 --> 00:41:41.309 years and then part time retired and stayed on halftime 49% for a couple 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:45.867 of years to wrap up the old main campaign. Did you officially retired a 00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:50.467 year and a half ago stepped right from that and the president of the S. U. 00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:56.376 Retirees association? No. Well I am now 00:41:56.409 --> 00:41:59.256 but that was fun too 00:41:59.289 --> 00:42:05.057 as you look back over all of your years, are there any particular memories 00:42:05.090 --> 00:42:09.566 that stand out to you? 00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:13.736 Well the name change was almost a life changing event. I met people there 00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:17.666 who have been my lifelong friends ever since. 00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:23.137 Um And as I told you I got such a great education into the alumni business 00:42:23.170 --> 00:42:25.967 in the state of Arizona. We just got everywhere was such an important 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:30.177 thing for the university. Um 00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:32.767 I know you can look back on the fun things. The first Rose Bowl appearance 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:34.936 , 00:42:34.969 --> 00:42:41.867 the second Rose bowl appearance but we beat michigan in the first one. Ah 00:42:41.900 --> 00:42:46.416 Mhm. The alumni director serves on the athletic board ex officio and that 00:42:46.449 --> 00:42:49.166 was a great experience 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:55.166 keeping close to that program through its good days and bad days. 00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:59.856 I have an appreciation for those great people. One thing I remember which 00:42:59.889 --> 00:43:05.267 is really a negative. Um I was working in my yard on a saturday and my son 00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:10.316 comes out the front door and says hey dad they just fired frank kush and I 00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:13.936 said no they couldn't have. So I turned on the radio and listen, we had a 00:43:13.969 --> 00:43:17.396 game that night. I started at the stadium a little early because I was 00:43:17.429 --> 00:43:22.247 supposed to help the president host the president's box. Regent members 00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:27.847 board of Regents came up Don what in the world is going on incredibly the 00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:35.756 border regions hadn't been warned. Um That was a tough time. You're fired 00:43:35.789 --> 00:43:40.236 the president, the president's wife and fred miller, the athletic director 00:43:40.269 --> 00:43:48.269 , but no one was prepared for. So frank had, and in fact frank had 00:43:48.659 --> 00:43:52.166 announced it the day before. They were going to probably a pretty smart 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:58.037 move. That's why it was, everyone was caught unawares maybe for, for 00:43:58.070 --> 00:44:02.657 history you got to run through how 00:44:02.690 --> 00:44:06.787 well I'm not an expert on that. But I tell you, I became enmeshed in it 00:44:06.820 --> 00:44:13.887 because alumni over the country were mainly, I rate that it happened frank. 00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:19.356 What franklin frank Watson is still a revered individual. There was an 00:44:19.389 --> 00:44:25.017 accusation that he had hit one of his players at a football game at the 00:44:25.050 --> 00:44:29.827 University of Washington. Later we saw tape of it actually happening. But 00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:35.206 the big problem was as it was in a Washington scandal. Also earlier the 00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:41.847 cover up, he allegedly had instructed his assistant coaches not to talk 00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:46.456 about it and have denied that it ever happened. So when evidence came out 00:44:46.489 --> 00:44:52.356 that it had happened, fred miller, the athletic director moved 00:44:52.389 --> 00:45:00.227 two remove frank from his job. That in a nutshell is what, what happened 00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:04.936 more the cover up than the act, I think everyone knew frank was tough. I 00:45:04.969 --> 00:45:07.517 used to say if my son were ever going to play football, I wanted to play 00:45:07.550 --> 00:45:11.807 for frank because it's a tough, tough sport. 00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:16.756 But when it happened, the way it did, people started taking sides. I 00:45:16.789 --> 00:45:19.697 walked into the president's office several weeks after it happened, 00:45:19.730 --> 00:45:27.037 there's this huge ceramic bowl on a file cabinet. It was just filled with 00:45:27.070 --> 00:45:29.646 unopened letters. 00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.736 And I said to the secretary, what in the world are these? And she said 00:45:32.769 --> 00:45:37.657 there was a frank kush incident letters were never going to open. 00:45:37.690 --> 00:45:43.256 So I think the whole thing was really handled badly in our office. We had 00:45:43.289 --> 00:45:46.756 about six form letters 00:45:46.789 --> 00:45:49.977 because you couldn't write a personal letter to everybody who complained. 00:45:50.010 --> 00:45:55.456 We got hundreds of letters ourselves. But we would say to a secretary, 00:45:55.489 --> 00:45:59.336 send this form letter, add my personal note, do this. I'll have to thank 00:45:59.369 --> 00:46:03.336 you and all that. And we answered every single letter we got and we kept 00:46:03.369 --> 00:46:07.427 the phone log of everyone who called in protesting or suggesting or 00:46:07.460 --> 00:46:11.686 whatever and those are still in a big fat file that I think my successor 00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:18.146 has somewhere labeled kush correspondence. Um, it was just a very 00:46:18.179 --> 00:46:21.456 traumatic time for the university. Later, just a few years ago, we brought 00:46:21.489 --> 00:46:26.017 frank back and we named cush field for him and he's on the athletic 00:46:26.050 --> 00:46:31.077 department staff as an assistant to the athletic director. Too bad. It 00:46:31.110 --> 00:46:34.637 happened the way it did. But you asked me about things I remember that. I 00:46:34.670 --> 00:46:39.227 certainly remember that, but I don't know if you're gonna get to it next. 00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:43.807 I know we don't want to take too much more time. But ah, there are a lot 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.606 of things happening because of the growth of the university and the growth 00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:50.646 of the alumni association that, that I was asked to do one was the 00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:54.626 president said to me in the early seventies, you know, there's not gonna 00:46:54.659 --> 00:47:00.347 be any more state tax money for public relations or outreach programs. 00:47:00.380 --> 00:47:06.046 You've got to get your own resources. So we started against a lot of 00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:10.617 negative feeling a dues program. We asked alumni to pay dues for years. 00:47:10.650 --> 00:47:14.066 They, when they graduated, they had gotten a card that said life member of 00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:18.287 the Arizona State College Alumni Association. How many of those cards I 00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:21.606 saw when I started a news program. I can't tell you because they say, look 00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:26.037 , I was made a life member. I said yes, but how much did you pay? Well? 00:47:26.070 --> 00:47:29.717 Nothing. And that explains why we need your money would like you to be a 00:47:29.750 --> 00:47:34.327 paying life member or an annual member. And with that money, we were able 00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:37.586 to expand the alumni program. We were able to be advocates for the 00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:41.126 university politically because you can't do that with tax money. We could 00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:46.347 use our own generated funds to do something else. I wanted to talk about 00:47:46.380 --> 00:47:50.657 briefly start an alumni legislative network throughout the state in every 00:47:50.690 --> 00:47:55.727 district in the state to start the state of day picnic, which we started 00:47:55.760 --> 00:48:00.947 on statehood day at the state capitol. The alumni started that to advocate 00:48:00.980 --> 00:48:04.006 for the university. Lord knows these days with budget cuts. We need 00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:11.776 advocates and that's what we did many, many years ago. Um and I'll stop 00:48:11.809 --> 00:48:15.977 talking in a minute. But speaking of revenue and the legislature, we also 00:48:16.010 --> 00:48:19.427 started something that I think my colleagues at A. U. And U. Of a wondered 00:48:19.460 --> 00:48:22.577 what in the world is dots trying to pull off here. We started the 00:48:22.610 --> 00:48:27.137 collegiate license plate program and we took it through the Legislature 00:48:27.170 --> 00:48:30.637 and it included all three universities but they didn't know what was going 00:48:30.670 --> 00:48:34.517 on. And we handed them this revenue program and they love it because now 00:48:34.550 --> 00:48:38.796 you see sparky plates and wildcat plates and lumberjack plates all around 00:48:38.829 --> 00:48:42.887 the state. And the revenue from those collegiate plates goes to the 00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:47.287 scholarship programs that all three institutions ours goes to the alumni 00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:52.736 associations medallion of Merit Scholarship program, which I understand 00:48:52.769 --> 00:48:57.206 feeling the microphone again sir, which is being expanded also by 00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:01.486 fundraising. But another thing we started I'm proud of is the Medallion of 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:05.367 Merit Awards program to the Outstanding Junior in every high school in the 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:09.086 state. And with that goes a scholarship if they come to A. S. U. So that 00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:12.037 program helps with that. 00:49:12.070 --> 00:49:15.686 I've talked enough about. But those are things we're proud of. That's what 00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:21.037 you're here to do is talk about those things. Um, let's see, we've already 00:49:21.070 --> 00:49:24.637 some of these, 00:49:24.670 --> 00:49:28.977 well as you look back, you know what, what you sort of if your accomplice 00:49:29.010 --> 00:49:35.626 , they're using the proudest before. I think 00:49:35.659 --> 00:49:39.307 I had a philosophy that students aren't students, their alumni and 00:49:39.340 --> 00:49:41.336 residents. 00:49:41.369 --> 00:49:46.256 And when you have a 50,000 student body, you don't get to know every 00:49:46.289 --> 00:49:49.666 student. But we started some student programs. We co sponsored the 00:49:49.699 --> 00:49:53.546 associated Students awards programs. We started what we call the student 00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:56.947 alumni association, a service organization, which really carries on the 00:49:56.980 --> 00:50:02.106 traditions of the university. They languished for a while. We started a 00:50:02.139 --> 00:50:06.256 group called Devil's advocates. I'm very proud of that under homer 00:50:06.289 --> 00:50:08.427 Durham's 00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:12.787 tenure. He said we've got to get out to the high schools and let them know 00:50:12.820 --> 00:50:16.586 about this school. The U. Of A is killing us and he said there's a vice 00:50:16.619 --> 00:50:19.956 president and then a, you who used to be a school superintendent, He's 00:50:19.989 --> 00:50:23.367 going around the state and he's killing us. So we started Devil's 00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:29.097 Advocates and their purpose was to give campus tours and to speak at high 00:50:29.130 --> 00:50:33.037 schools. Um, so I'm proud of that and that involves students. So we got to 00:50:33.070 --> 00:50:36.896 know a lot of students while they were here alumni and residents and then 00:50:36.929 --> 00:50:40.197 of course we knew them after they graduated. So I was proud of that. Quite 00:50:40.230 --> 00:50:46.876 proud of that. Mhm. Um what was the question again? Okay. And I've already 00:50:46.909 --> 00:50:52.659 mentioned, I've already mentioned the collegiate plates and Okay, Alright. 00:50:58.059 --> 00:51:00.059 Oh brother. Yeah, I, I feel kind of self conscious talking about this 00:51:02.570 --> 00:51:07.477 because I know alumni who graduated 50 years before I did and boy talk 00:51:07.510 --> 00:51:12.197 about change, you know, because one of the best things we did was to host 00:51:12.230 --> 00:51:17.057 alumni at their 50th anniversaries of their graduation. And I heard 00:51:17.090 --> 00:51:21.227 stories then that were just incredible about what a small place it was. 00:51:21.260 --> 00:51:26.126 Everybody knew everyone and that kind of thing. But from my freshman year 00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:30.396 on, I'll tell you, as I said, it was a wild ride because probably my 00:51:30.429 --> 00:51:34.066 freshman year, we had 10,000 students and when I graduated we had 20,000 00:51:34.099 --> 00:51:42.099 students four years and it just kept going like that. Um 00:51:43.940 --> 00:51:47.827 the physical plant, 00:51:47.860 --> 00:51:52.316 we watched the steel girders go up on the curve of Apache boulevard as 00:51:52.349 --> 00:51:56.727 Gammage Auditorium was don't 00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:00.977 um, the new library, 00:52:01.010 --> 00:52:05.706 the old library now, but it was new when we built it, things that mean so 00:52:05.739 --> 00:52:11.077 much to an institution. We just saw all these things happening. Um, so it 00:52:11.110 --> 00:52:14.327 changed just dramatically and the structure of the institution from a 00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:18.296 couple of colleges are actually a college of education and a couple of 00:52:18.329 --> 00:52:20.316 divisions 00:52:20.349 --> 00:52:24.037 to um, I don't know what we have now, 12 or 13 colleges and the two branch 00:52:24.070 --> 00:52:27.166 campuses, I've been retired for a couple of years, but I think it's 12 or 00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:35.199 13 colleges. Um, just an amazing story. Just really fun to watch, fun to 00:52:35.670 --> 00:52:38.617 be a part of 00:52:38.650 --> 00:52:43.296 when, when Gammage Auditorium was that. It's such a landmark. People can't 00:52:43.329 --> 00:52:48.617 imagine when it wasn't there, 00:52:48.650 --> 00:52:53.077 Time magazine called it one of the great new music halls of the world and 00:52:53.110 --> 00:52:55.217 they featured 00:52:55.250 --> 00:52:58.137 at that time Lincoln center and damage and a couple others that had been 00:52:58.170 --> 00:53:03.017 built about the same time on a cover story. I remember the big damage at 00:53:03.050 --> 00:53:06.057 night photo that time carried with the full moon above it. It was 00:53:06.090 --> 00:53:10.517 beautiful. Um, 00:53:10.550 --> 00:53:13.396 and I also like to brag, but at that time Lincoln center was still going 00:53:13.429 --> 00:53:16.827 through some adjustments for its acoustics. They didn't get it quite right 00:53:16.860 --> 00:53:20.916 , but we had George Eisenhower from Yale University as our acquisition and 00:53:20.949 --> 00:53:27.017 we had frank Lloyd Wright is the original architect. 00:53:27.050 --> 00:53:30.916 So it was a very exciting thing for this small school, small school in to 00:53:30.949 --> 00:53:36.217 , to see. Um, you know, it took three or four years to build it. So it was 00:53:36.250 --> 00:53:40.747 exciting to see. I hosted a lot of tours of that building because we have 00:53:40.780 --> 00:53:44.247 visiting alumni groups or reunion groups come back. So I got to know a lot 00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:48.057 about it. It's a great resource. It was the phoenix symphonies home for 00:53:48.090 --> 00:53:51.717 years until they built symphony hall. So it meant a lot to this community 00:53:51.750 --> 00:53:56.697 . I think it still does. 00:53:56.730 --> 00:54:00.057 What advice do you have for young people that are trying to choose a 00:54:00.090 --> 00:54:04.097 college or choose a career. It's easy, just choose Arizona State 00:54:04.130 --> 00:54:07.407 University. 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.416 Oh 00:54:10.449 --> 00:54:14.106 no, I was just fell into it. 00:54:14.139 --> 00:54:21.416 Ah we have so much to offer and one thing I haven't mentioned, give a lot 00:54:21.449 --> 00:54:27.916 of credit to j russell nelson as president was the, the honors college. I 00:54:27.949 --> 00:54:32.706 think we have so much to offer at this school on almost any level from the 00:54:32.739 --> 00:54:38.097 average student to the honor student the honors college is a terrific 00:54:38.130 --> 00:54:45.697 story. Um But you know I think that seriously if someone is in Arizona and 00:54:45.730 --> 00:54:49.106 they should look at Arizona state. 00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:53.967 Um If they get a full ride at an ivy league school. I understand but we 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:58.327 get a lot of students here who have that situation facing them because 00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:04.677 they like the honors program. Um In reality I guess you just have to say 00:55:04.710 --> 00:55:09.637 find a fit. I would tell students looking at colleges now find the right 00:55:09.670 --> 00:55:14.727 fit don't necessarily just come to issue because it's here as I did. I'm 00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:19.236 so happy I did but we have so much to offer. I wanted I would want to make 00:55:19.269 --> 00:55:23.586 sure that student knew what we had here in his or her chosen field before 00:55:23.619 --> 00:55:31.619 they make their choice. I feel like it's too big. Ah I used to do the 00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:37.416 something else we started was sun devil receptions around the country for 00:55:37.449 --> 00:55:41.046 students who have been accepted to A. S. U. We've held him on Long Island. 00:55:41.079 --> 00:55:45.106 We've held him in Chicago. We've held them all over California and this I 00:55:45.139 --> 00:55:47.867 don't know many large schools that do this but the local alumni and 00:55:47.900 --> 00:55:54.307 parents host at someone's home an event early in the summer or late spring 00:55:54.340 --> 00:55:56.986 for anyone who has been admitted to A. S. U. And they come and a lot of 00:55:57.019 --> 00:56:00.936 them still have questions. They haven't made their final choice. I think 00:56:00.969 --> 00:56:06.557 just that act shows them that we're a place that can help them and what 00:56:06.590 --> 00:56:10.697 you know what I used to tell students and parents that those events was. 00:56:10.730 --> 00:56:13.747 We're a huge university but we're a collection of very good small 00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:15.796 colleges 00:56:15.829 --> 00:56:20.717 and I really think that's true. I and I think laddie cours effort in the 00:56:20.750 --> 00:56:28.677 last decade two to enhance the freshman experience as he called it to make 00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:34.356 sure that more freshman classes are taught by tenured professors instead 00:56:34.389 --> 00:56:38.186 of assistant assistance 00:56:38.219 --> 00:56:43.836 and that the advising program is there in place for them. I don't know and 00:56:43.869 --> 00:56:47.986 I get I still get calls from alumni whose students are here as freshmen 00:56:48.019 --> 00:56:52.916 and they're in trouble and I know they can call me but I don't know many 00:56:52.949 --> 00:56:56.416 people who have who would say that their student came to a. S. U. As a 00:56:56.449 --> 00:57:01.736 freshman and wasn't well served. So I think you just counter that bigness 00:57:01.769 --> 00:57:05.997 with the fact that it's a place that cares and we'll take good care of it. 00:57:06.030 --> 00:57:10.057 You know there's a lot there are a lot of great things about being a 00:57:10.090 --> 00:57:14.367 great big university and we just talked about. Gammage Auditorium and 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:20.276 intercollegiate sports and I don't know 500 student organizations. I mean 00:57:20.309 --> 00:57:23.637 there's a kaleidoscope, they can get involved in anything that's a pretty 00:57:23.670 --> 00:57:26.396 neat experience. 00:57:26.429 --> 00:57:32.197 You mentioned a couple of the other presidents nelson and the core a 00:57:32.230 --> 00:57:38.097 little bit about the president's. I've talked a lot about Grady, 00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:40.856 he was followed by homer Durham. I talked a little bit about homer what a 00:57:40.889 --> 00:57:44.177 fine individual he was. 00:57:44.210 --> 00:57:49.236 And next came Harry, New Bern, Harry, New Bern was this revered person who 00:57:49.269 --> 00:57:53.626 came to us after being president of the university of Oregon and he was 00:57:53.659 --> 00:57:58.606 dean of our College of Education. I thought boy, what a coup. And I still 00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:03.157 was pretty young then. But I called every dean by his first name Hi Mac hi 00:58:03.190 --> 00:58:07.916 George. But I never called harry newborn hi harry because he was his 00:58:07.949 --> 00:58:10.287 former president. 00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:14.267 So I was just about ready to try. Hi harry on him and he was named 00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:16.387 president. 00:58:16.420 --> 00:58:21.606 So I went from the new Bern to President newborn. But he served I think 00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:25.557 three years not acting. He said I want the full title but I'll serve for 00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:29.756 three years. And then after he came and he was good, he had to make some 00:58:29.789 --> 00:58:34.287 decisions too as we were growing so fast, move some people around and that 00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:36.967 kind of thing that a three year president can do because he knew his 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:43.736 tenure and after him came john Suada a financial expert from the state of 00:58:43.769 --> 00:58:48.677 Missouri um a former chief fiscal officer for the state of Missouri and we 00:58:48.710 --> 00:58:54.486 thought, oh boy, he's gonna really help us with our legislative problems 00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:58.267 and he was probably the right one to do that. But it was just a squirrely 00:58:58.300 --> 00:59:02.146 situation at the time with the legislature and state finances. But he 00:59:02.179 --> 00:59:09.506 tried hard. But we, he was, he was a good consolidator. I think he really 00:59:09.539 --> 00:59:12.186 helped us grow. 00:59:12.219 --> 00:59:17.947 That was john swatter and his tenure was tragically um, ended with the 00:59:17.980 --> 00:59:23.486 kush mess. I don't think he ever got over that. 00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:29.057 And after him came Gerald nelson. 00:59:29.090 --> 00:59:34.486 I've talked about russell little bit the founding of the honors college. 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:40.186 But we went through the 100th anniversary of the institution with Russ. 00:59:40.219 --> 00:59:45.566 He probably did the alumni circuit with me as well as anybody. 00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:48.506 Someone at the University of Arizona said, well, and I forget who their 00:59:48.539 --> 00:59:51.336 president was and I don't mean to detract from who was. You have a 00:59:51.369 --> 00:59:55.256 president at the time. But they said, boy, that Russ nelson, He's a good 00:59:55.289 --> 00:59:59.606 president and he looks like a president too. So, but he had this demeanor. 00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:04.577 He was, I think a tremendous representative for us. You called him Russ. 01:00:04.610 --> 01:00:08.177 He was rushed. In fact, we talked about Russ arriving before he arrived. 01:00:08.210 --> 01:00:16.210 He sent the word I want to be Russ. Yeah. As Larry has also done. So I 01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:23.057 think that about covers the press laddie. Um, what I say about him was how 01:00:23.090 --> 01:00:29.177 a university president with 50,000 students and thousands of faculty 01:00:29.210 --> 01:00:33.626 can be so well liked by all those factions. I don't know the man is 01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:38.117 superhuman. Even the faculty, You won't find many faculty members of this 01:00:38.150 --> 01:00:42.977 institution. We have a bad word to say about logic or 01:00:43.010 --> 01:00:47.367 that's the first general impression I'd give you about laddie. But he was 01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:51.217 , he was also a builder. He was a fundraiser to, he was our best 01:00:51.250 --> 01:00:56.697 development officer. If we had a good prospect for saying maybe a little 01:00:56.730 --> 01:01:02.657 $10 million gift and the person was properly prepared, you knew that time 01:01:02.690 --> 01:01:07.896 was right. He was the one to clinch it. He was great. We talked about the 01:01:07.929 --> 01:01:12.907 different presidents. What the role of the president is at the university 01:01:12.940 --> 01:01:16.517 or our house. It changes the university by the personality of the 01:01:16.550 --> 01:01:22.847 president. Well, I look back at the type of presidencies that that I know 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:26.597 and one was the greater damage type and it was the the individual as much 01:01:26.630 --> 01:01:32.276 as the situation. But still he was the 01:01:32.309 --> 01:01:38.197 he was the unquestioned leader of the institution that was small enough to 01:01:38.230 --> 01:01:42.456 where everyone, everything went through. Grady or someone I should have 01:01:42.489 --> 01:01:46.697 mentioned earlier. Gilbert, Katie, his vice president because Gilbert was 01:01:46.730 --> 01:01:52.997 really his right hand person. But it was fairly easy even when even with 01:01:53.030 --> 01:01:57.776 Homer Durham afterwards, when I hired a new alumni editor, Homer wanted to 01:01:57.809 --> 01:02:02.856 meet him before I named him. I can imagine now the president meeting every 01:02:02.889 --> 01:02:08.467 assistant director type who's hired on the campus. So things have changed 01:02:08.500 --> 01:02:13.236 partly I think because of our tremendous growth. But also because I don't 01:02:13.269 --> 01:02:16.396 think presidents do that probably anywhere anymore. There's more 01:02:16.429 --> 01:02:21.986 delegation, They're more of a ceo they're more of a manager. Um, some come 01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:26.467 from business because of their ceo or their management skills. 01:02:26.500 --> 01:02:29.566 Um, 01:02:29.599 --> 01:02:33.836 so I think that's the big difference of presidents now do a lot of 01:02:33.869 --> 01:02:37.017 delegating. When I started off as alumni director, I reported to homer 01:02:37.050 --> 01:02:43.646 Durham, I was on his staff and much to my chagrin couple presidents later 01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:48.467 they named vice presidents for things and the director is reported to them. 01:02:48.500 --> 01:02:52.126 It made for a much more efficient operation. Vice president for 01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:56.137 university relations and now vice president for advancement, coordinates 01:02:56.170 --> 01:03:00.876 such things as fundraising, government relations alumni and channel eight 01:03:00.909 --> 01:03:07.867 in public programs and that's logical. Um, so that's, I think the big 01:03:07.900 --> 01:03:11.427 change I've seen and I think the kind of people we get as our presidents 01:03:11.460 --> 01:03:15.367 are hired with that with that in mind. 01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:20.367 You know, I just heard a lot of the difference between like russell nelson 01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:26.436 and laddie core, russell nelson so far. Mm hmm. 01:03:26.469 --> 01:03:31.807 Yeah. And but I think some of that is personality because laddie delegated 01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:37.367 like crazy, you know, um 01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:41.427 I had, I had time as alumni director had time to meet with laddie and talk 01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:43.907 with him maybe about something that's coming up that we're getting him 01:03:43.940 --> 01:03:49.217 ready for. But the vice president was always there to be in the loop that 01:03:49.250 --> 01:03:56.227 never happened earlier. So laddie delegated a lot too, but I think you 01:03:56.260 --> 01:04:01.197 just have to go with laddies demeanor and see that he was so easy to talk 01:04:01.230 --> 01:04:07.137 to. He was great at relating to people and homer was a little more 01:04:07.170 --> 01:04:10.997 reserved, I mean not homer but rust was a little more reserved. So I think 01:04:11.030 --> 01:04:14.606 that's a fair comparison 01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:17.666 back in the early days. 01:04:17.699 --> 01:04:23.276 Yes, he did. Right in the middle of the campus. Yeah, sure did. Can't 01:04:23.309 --> 01:04:27.546 imagine a person. Oh yeah. But it was nice as a freshman to be on the 01:04:27.579 --> 01:04:31.907 president's yard for the freshman reception with the president. 01:04:31.940 --> 01:04:35.057 Those times have changed 01:04:35.090 --> 01:04:43.090 when what go back. Not, not specifically right. I've been learning some 01:04:45.460 --> 01:04:50.657 things that I didn't know. I can't imagine that 01:04:50.690 --> 01:04:57.756 it's been very interesting. No, I didn't write anything down. 01:04:57.789 --> 01:05:00.956 Yeah, 01:05:00.989 --> 01:05:06.717 well you covered jimmy pretty well and I was glad that you did that. We do 01:05:06.750 --> 01:05:13.177 need your Yeah, I really think so with that in mind. If I could say one 01:05:13.210 --> 01:05:17.986 more thing I talked about Grady, I think he made some great hires and I'm 01:05:18.019 --> 01:05:23.356 sure that he just reached out across the desert to these bastions of 01:05:23.389 --> 01:05:29.956 knowledge on the east coast and plucked some pretty good people. But um, 01:05:29.989 --> 01:05:33.497 he hired some alumni that he knew some products of our own institution who 01:05:33.530 --> 01:05:38.447 really, I think it meant a lot to this growth and development of this 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:43.206 university. One of course was jimmy. The other was Alfred thomas JR, I 01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:46.807 mentioned him briefly, but Alfred was the registrar and director of 01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:53.356 admissions. He was um faculty representative to the athletic conference. 01:05:53.389 --> 01:05:58.836 He was a stickler for for academic 01:05:58.869 --> 01:06:05.057 credentials as a registrar should be. He was, he was a graduate. He heard 01:06:05.090 --> 01:06:10.037 George Morel, someone told me once, I just always thought this university 01:06:10.070 --> 01:06:14.747 was run by Grady Gammage and Gilbert Katy and Jorge Morel and George was 01:06:14.780 --> 01:06:20.206 director of purchasing. Uh but of course a lot of things across his desk 01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:23.867 and an alumnus, Gilbert Katie, vice president for business affairs, was a 01:06:23.900 --> 01:06:30.577 graduate. Those people early, I think in the Postwar boom at this 01:06:30.610 --> 01:06:35.066 institution were in place because Grady hired them in key positions and I 01:06:35.099 --> 01:06:39.896 think those graduates, our own products really meant a lot to the 01:06:39.929 --> 01:06:43.747 development of this institution. Even at the same time that Grady was 01:06:43.780 --> 01:06:48.796 reaching across the continent to bring in some special people hired me. Of 01:06:48.829 --> 01:06:52.686 course. Yeah, 01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:55.796 that's right. 01:06:55.829 --> 01:07:02.097 Some schools have it because because again, it's a big business these days 01:07:02.130 --> 01:07:05.427 , so they hire people from elsewhere who have proven themselves. But I 01:07:05.460 --> 01:07:09.537 can't imagine not being an alumnus of the institution where you're serving 01:07:09.570 --> 01:07:15.756 that position, You talked about how small it was. Mhm locations to talk 01:07:15.789 --> 01:07:21.347 about how, what the alumni department was like. 01:07:21.380 --> 01:07:27.947 Well, we had um probably five employees. When I started 01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:35.146 jimmy, his secretary, three records clerks and me 01:07:35.179 --> 01:07:38.916 and Dean smith helping as a part timer. 01:07:38.949 --> 01:07:45.856 And when I left, we had about 25 employees. The director and 01:07:45.889 --> 01:07:49.847 to Associate director is one of the business manager 01:07:49.880 --> 01:07:54.947 and two or three other program. People 01:07:54.980 --> 01:07:58.046 plus 01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:02.677 seven or eight. Development are seven or eight records keepers. So it's 01:08:02.710 --> 01:08:08.236 just grew it grew a great deal. Um when I started we were on the old three 01:08:08.269 --> 01:08:14.037 by five cards and the address a graph plates. When I left we were fully 01:08:14.070 --> 01:08:18.067 into the computer age with all the information you want to know about. A 01:08:18.100 --> 01:08:23.897 graduate of the university should know. Um in those files are giving 01:08:23.930 --> 01:08:27.987 record very important for alumni and development to have this, their 01:08:28.020 --> 01:08:30.937 preferences for whether they're football season ticket holders or what 01:08:30.970 --> 01:08:35.166 their interests are. Whether or not we've had contact with them as well as 01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:40.036 their academic information. So a big, big record system. 01:08:40.069 --> 01:08:45.567 Big changes, comments may be use this term, but with the alumni 01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:53.600 association be called. Yeah, it is big business. I mean I have to. Yeah, 01:08:54.710 --> 01:08:57.237 exactly. 01:08:57.270 --> 01:09:05.036 Yeah. And let me just give you an example. Um I'm talking to you. 01:09:05.069 --> 01:09:08.467 I'll give you an example of how a big businesses, how it's become big 01:09:08.500 --> 01:09:12.307 business because a few years before I moved over from alumni to 01:09:12.340 --> 01:09:18.876 development, my wife and I were billed as hosts for a trip to europe by 01:09:18.909 --> 01:09:21.467 the way, I didn't mention that I'm proud of the travel program we started 01:09:21.500 --> 01:09:26.267 because it involved a lot of alumni with us that we got to know one or two. 01:09:26.300 --> 01:09:28.717 I could tell you were a million dollar givers later we got to know them 01:09:28.750 --> 01:09:33.847 through that kind of program but it was to serve the alumni too. And, and 01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:38.237 anise and I were going to escort this trip. And it came up at a time when 01:09:38.270 --> 01:09:41.656 the legislature was giving us fits and we had the legislative network out 01:09:41.689 --> 01:09:45.826 there and I didn't really want to leave. But I looked at the brochure 01:09:45.859 --> 01:09:49.307 which had our pictures, I knew about three or four friends who were going 01:09:49.340 --> 01:09:52.946 because we were going and I thought I'm going to have to go because we're 01:09:52.979 --> 01:09:58.206 going to make $5000 off this trip. And that was big to me. This is only a 01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:03.527 few years before I stepped down. Probably early nineties 01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:07.307 we went, it was fine legislature. We survived the legislative thing and 01:10:07.340 --> 01:10:14.057 all that. But shortly after I left, we also had a credit card that a 01:10:14.090 --> 01:10:16.717 company did with the sun devil on it and all of that. And um, and I liked 01:10:16.750 --> 01:10:20.647 it and we made some money from that and we got, I think a $50,000 bonus to 01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:26.666 sign up for that credit card from the bank. I thought big business, we can 01:10:26.699 --> 01:10:29.727 good scholarship money. 01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:34.387 A year after I left my successor was renegotiating the credit card 01:10:34.420 --> 01:10:41.427 contract. You got a million dollars from the bank. 01:10:41.460 --> 01:10:44.826 Talk about big business. Well now the banks aren't offering a million 01:10:44.859 --> 01:10:50.187 dollars to sign up because the economy isn't isn't isn't right for it. But 01:10:50.220 --> 01:10:54.006 that's just an example because we did do a lot of things entrepreneurial 01:10:54.039 --> 01:10:57.706 that brought in some fees. So we could do things for the university and 01:10:57.739 --> 01:11:01.857 every little 5000, even up to $50,000 meant a lot to us in addition to our 01:11:01.890 --> 01:11:07.796 dues revenue. But now when you can go out with a nice big alumni list and 01:11:07.829 --> 01:11:11.006 someone wants to market a product to them that you endorse, not just 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:15.456 everybody can do this of course, but it was a service that the association 01:11:15.489 --> 01:11:20.427 would make money from. Million dollars. Just never entered my mind before. 01:11:20.460 --> 01:11:26.626 That's big business. But also just running that biggest staff, um, 01:11:26.659 --> 01:11:33.937 doing the publication itself full color. Um, four times a year. Still, but 01:11:33.970 --> 01:11:40.147 bigger. Very expensive. So it's big business. It really is. The other 01:11:40.180 --> 01:11:44.456 thing I would like for you to comment on a little bit more Don is is the 01:11:44.489 --> 01:11:52.489 legislative how the, you know, alumni will host district, 01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:58.826 right, coffees. Yeah, basically, yeah. 01:11:58.859 --> 01:12:03.006 District meeting to meet your legislators and that kind of thing. And it 01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:08.576 has that really paid off in the long run, I think it's paid off a great 01:12:08.609 --> 01:12:11.517 deal. Um, 01:12:11.550 --> 01:12:16.767 we started a couple of decades ago organizing alumni in each legislative 01:12:16.800 --> 01:12:22.017 district. And um, 01:12:22.050 --> 01:12:30.006 the reason was we, again, the are lobbyists for the institution and the 01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:33.427 president gets to know legislators pretty well, but they want to hear from 01:12:33.460 --> 01:12:38.017 people in their district who live and vote in their district. And so we 01:12:38.050 --> 01:12:42.977 organized people say in district 30 in Mesa to have a reception or a 01:12:43.010 --> 01:12:50.616 coffee or maybe not a coffee in Mesa, but reception in Mesa. Uh, and we 01:12:50.649 --> 01:12:56.626 get 40 50 60 alumni to turn out for that event. And usually we get all 01:12:56.659 --> 01:12:59.557 three legislators, the two representatives in the senator and they'd meet 01:12:59.590 --> 01:13:01.756 their friends and neighbors and say, I didn't know you went to Arizona 01:13:01.789 --> 01:13:07.536 state and that's great. And they put local faces with the institution. I 01:13:07.569 --> 01:13:12.807 think it paid off very, very well. Um, in in the flush times when the 01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:16.817 state did have some surplus a few years ago before we gave it away in tax 01:13:16.850 --> 01:13:23.857 refunds. Um, ah I think it paid off because we were able to expand a 01:13:23.890 --> 01:13:29.796 little bit um, in the hard times. I think it's really necessary because 01:13:29.829 --> 01:13:34.267 slash slashes could really be devastating and you have to have people who 01:13:34.300 --> 01:13:39.326 can pick up the phone and say senator. So, and so this is joe you know, 01:13:39.359 --> 01:13:42.897 can you help here? I just want you to know I care about this or that. I 01:13:42.930 --> 01:13:46.467 think it's very important. They say all politics is local. So when you're 01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:50.237 organized by district, I think it pays off and their alumni and parents 01:13:50.270 --> 01:13:55.267 and fans there who want to help. So I I think it was a very successful 01:13:55.300 --> 01:13:59.536 effort. It still is, Have you seen the legislature changed over the years 01:13:59.569 --> 01:14:02.006 ? 01:14:02.039 --> 01:14:04.897 I go back to the, 01:14:04.930 --> 01:14:12.206 to the term limits decision that was made by the voters and I regret it 01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:16.397 because we used to have legislators. Yes, they were there forever, some of 01:14:16.430 --> 01:14:20.626 them, but they knew what they were doing. And if they were if they were 01:14:20.659 --> 01:14:24.987 less than honest or whatever, they'd get turned out. But if they had been 01:14:25.020 --> 01:14:28.097 there a while, Harold guest comes to mind from Yuma, the state senator 01:14:28.130 --> 01:14:32.307 from Yuma, this was 30 years ago. 01:14:32.340 --> 01:14:36.217 You know, you could go to Harold and he could tell you how to get 01:14:36.250 --> 01:14:39.496 something done in the state senate Burton bar in the House of 01:14:39.529 --> 01:14:43.086 Representatives the same way term limits didn't turn burnt out because he 01:14:43.119 --> 01:14:47.126 knew this state. He was a relatively conservative Republican who could 01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:51.267 bring liberal democrats and republicans together in the same room, lock 01:14:51.300 --> 01:14:54.307 the door and say, we're going to make this decision and it got made. You 01:14:54.340 --> 01:14:57.987 don't see that now, there's no one, I think this is very personal opinion 01:14:58.020 --> 01:15:03.397 , but there's no one in the Legislature now that I can name who has that 01:15:03.430 --> 01:15:07.467 kind of expertise because we turn them out every what, eight years or 01:15:07.500 --> 01:15:12.496 whatever. Um I used to always say we have term limits. It's called 01:15:12.529 --> 01:15:17.536 Election Day, maybe it didn't work the way it should have. But I really 01:15:17.569 --> 01:15:22.166 think it's made a big difference. So today, I think you have more people 01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:28.706 there with their own personal agendas who haven't really become a part of 01:15:28.739 --> 01:15:34.187 of the state wide concerns. They just represent their own little district 01:15:34.220 --> 01:15:36.967 and I think that's very important. But I think it's good to have a 01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:44.536 statesman now and then. I don't see a lot of statesmen. 01:15:44.569 --> 01:15:49.607 No, I couldn't stand it. 01:15:49.640 --> 01:15:54.677 I admire harry Mitchell are wonderful senator from Tempe. I admire Doug 01:15:54.710 --> 01:15:58.717 Todd who was a senator is now county treasurer, great alumni and great 01:15:58.750 --> 01:16:04.456 friends. I just admire them for doing it but I couldn't put up with it. I 01:16:04.489 --> 01:16:08.546 never thought about what you would you have not gotten this job taken one 01:16:08.579 --> 01:16:14.246 of your other journalists. Mhm. What might have done differently? I 01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:21.897 thought of it. Higher education isn't really great painting but neither is 01:16:21.930 --> 01:16:25.487 a beat reporter for a small town newspaper, a great paying job. So I 01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:29.097 probably would have tried to get out of it and go into something else. 01:16:29.130 --> 01:16:32.196 Business maybe pr for business, that type of thing. I don't know I've 01:16:32.229 --> 01:16:35.527 given that some thought but I've unfortunately I didn't have to make that 01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:38.196 decision. 01:16:38.229 --> 01:16:46.229 No I no I understand that. I did a little bit of that. Yeah. 01:16:47.229 --> 01:16:49.286 Okay. 01:16:49.319 --> 01:16:53.996 And its historical, it just goes back to I remember covering one of the 01:16:54.029 --> 01:16:58.977 stories that was memorable to me. It was when the library was dedicated. 01:16:59.010 --> 01:17:04.656 Carl Hayden came to speak and we shot the heck out of it. Uncle Carl. 01:17:04.689 --> 01:17:08.696 Yeah, he was an incredible guy and he didn't speak in public very often. 01:17:08.729 --> 01:17:13.696 So do you remember remember very well I visited with Carl in his in his 01:17:13.729 --> 01:17:18.956 townhouse. Um and near Shalimar golf club here in Tempe after he retired, 01:17:18.989 --> 01:17:24.357 he lived there, visited with him a couple of times. He was temporal normal 01:17:24.390 --> 01:17:32.286 school class of 96 and one of our revered alarms. So every time Chrisman 01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:36.416 went to Washington, d. C. Drop in on uncle Carl and I did that a couple of 01:17:36.449 --> 01:17:42.036 times, but he was a great guy. Um I also remember the dedication of the 01:17:42.069 --> 01:17:45.567 library because Carl was there. It's a Charles trumble Hayden library 01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:48.897 named after his father, 01:17:48.930 --> 01:17:52.967 but also the governor at the time was Sam Goddard who was well known to us 01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:58.006 as a Tucson and through and through and the governor stood up and started 01:17:58.039 --> 01:18:03.086 his remarks by saying looking at the crowd and saying, well the normal 01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:07.227 school finally has a library 01:18:07.260 --> 01:18:09.956 and I didn't know how to take that. I love boys rubbing it in, you know 01:18:09.989 --> 01:18:14.366 this Tucson and it's getting to us. I liked Sam as a governor but I 01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:17.817 thought that was a little, maybe a little too much. But I do remember very 01:18:17.850 --> 01:18:21.597 well Carl Hayden being there. It was a it was a wonderful day to have him 01:18:21.630 --> 01:18:25.286 there with his family's name on that. The most important building on the 01:18:25.319 --> 01:18:29.887 campus. The library. I always just assumed it was named for Karl because 01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:34.677 you don't really see the full name. Yeah. Do you remember what he, what he 01:18:34.710 --> 01:18:39.786 said in his remarks, I don't they were brief. I know 01:18:39.819 --> 01:18:45.786 um very modest. I know. 01:18:45.819 --> 01:18:52.397 What was he like. Well, when I got to know him, he was, had retired 01:18:52.430 --> 01:18:54.987 and uh, 01:18:55.020 --> 01:19:00.987 he would talk about his days as a county sheriff growing up in Tempe. 01:19:01.020 --> 01:19:04.796 That's about it. He certainly was not, he could have bragged about 01:19:04.829 --> 01:19:08.817 everything. He'd done everyone he knew, but he never did that. Very modest 01:19:08.850 --> 01:19:14.277 man. Great leader for the state. I'll tell you that. I mean for this state 01:19:14.310 --> 01:19:17.586 as small as it was at the time he served having the clout that he had was 01:19:17.619 --> 01:19:22.847 just tremendous. One of our noted alarms. So he went to stanford will give 01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:30.597 him that. That's all right. Any other notes that come to mind. Um, steve 01:19:30.630 --> 01:19:36.017 Allen was an alumnus, not a graduate but an alarm and we got to know steve 01:19:36.050 --> 01:19:39.387 pretty well. He appeared at a Los Angeles events for us three or four 01:19:39.420 --> 01:19:41.717 times 01:19:41.750 --> 01:19:44.397 and he started a scholarship in the Cronkite school of steve Allen 01:19:44.430 --> 01:19:51.786 scholarship. Um, I was just a great guy, Good friend. Um, I go back to the 01:19:51.819 --> 01:19:54.406 name change years. I was thinking of people we knew in the name change 01:19:54.439 --> 01:19:59.666 alumni who were involved in that big important battle for us. In 1958 one 01:19:59.699 --> 01:20:04.876 was Sherman Pain was the advertising director for Arizona Public service 01:20:04.909 --> 01:20:09.406 directed our advertising for us. The other was a young banker named Ed 01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:14.576 Carson, whoever was there historically. Whenever he moved up in the bank 01:20:14.609 --> 01:20:19.477 first National Bank of Arizona then was named the youngest whatever in the 01:20:19.510 --> 01:20:24.227 history of the bank and he was vice president at the time. He was a he was 01:20:24.260 --> 01:20:29.206 the treasurer of the name change drive and another stanford graduate, 01:20:29.239 --> 01:20:34.796 Wally, Gosh I can't think of a judge, walter reed Craig was chairman of 01:20:34.829 --> 01:20:37.376 friends for issue. 01:20:37.409 --> 01:20:42.237 Um and keith Turley was active later became president of Arizona public 01:20:42.270 --> 01:20:45.156 service company of course, said Carson then later went on to become 01:20:45.189 --> 01:20:49.317 chairman of the board of Wells Fargo and the benefactor of some great 01:20:49.350 --> 01:20:54.357 things on this campus. Great gifts during our big campaign just recently 01:20:54.390 --> 01:20:59.027 and was co chairman of that campaign. But I just remember, yeah, some 01:20:59.060 --> 01:21:05.777 great alumni who went on to do well and never forgot their alma mater. 01:21:05.810 --> 01:21:09.576 You mentioned the Cronkite school that didn't used to claim that that was 01:21:09.609 --> 01:21:12.376 that's my school. 01:21:12.409 --> 01:21:17.977 Well I remember someone asked walter Cronkite 01:21:18.010 --> 01:21:21.887 since you went to the University of texas mr Cronkite, why did you allow 01:21:21.920 --> 01:21:26.156 your name to be put on the journalism school at Arizona State University 01:21:26.189 --> 01:21:31.576 And he said, and I think it's a great fundraisers lesson, he said because 01:21:31.609 --> 01:21:34.777 they asked me, 01:21:34.810 --> 01:21:41.597 I think the key to that was oh who was the longtime owner of Channel 10. 01:21:41.630 --> 01:21:48.977 In fact tom chauncey went to him Tom was on the CBS board representing the 01:21:49.010 --> 01:21:54.086 station owners and tom went to walter and said there's this great program 01:21:54.119 --> 01:21:59.017 here we need you to help. I think it's because he couldn't turn turn tom 01:21:59.050 --> 01:22:03.727 chauncey down. I also think he never regretted it. I mean he has, he comes 01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:07.086 out every november. He spends time in the classrooms. I mean, how 01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:13.086 wonderful is this for a young journalist to have walter Cronkite there in 01:22:13.119 --> 01:22:17.437 your classroom, One story about walter. We had him, he was back for 01:22:17.470 --> 01:22:20.796 homecoming and he helped introduce, he was down on the field with 01:22:20.829 --> 01:22:24.677 homecoming royalty at halftime and it was just a wonderful time afterwards. 01:22:24.710 --> 01:22:31.727 We had a homecoming party at the Tempe palms Hotel 01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:36.777 and someone came into the ballroom and he said, I just met walter Cronkite 01:22:36.810 --> 01:22:39.166 and I said, well, yeah, I know he's here. He's staying here. He said no, 01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:42.137 no. He says, I got on the elevator and there was this man standing there 01:22:42.170 --> 01:22:46.567 and he looks at me and says, hi, I'm walter Cronkite 01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:51.137 as though you wouldn't know it anyway. Right. But he's been marvelous for 01:22:51.170 --> 01:22:56.217 this school comes back every fall and it's a part of it. How important is 01:22:56.250 --> 01:23:00.006 it to have that name on the journalist? Well, I think it's an attention 01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:03.416 getter. But I think it also shows, I mean maybe the young people today 01:23:03.449 --> 01:23:08.376 don't appreciate who uncle walter is, you know, but a lot of us went to 01:23:08.409 --> 01:23:15.227 the moon with him and we uh, we buried JFK with him and that would be the 01:23:15.260 --> 01:23:18.286 most trusted man in America whether everyone believed that or not, it 01:23:18.319 --> 01:23:24.876 became the moniker that he was dubbed with. Uh it means a lot. And I've 01:23:24.909 --> 01:23:28.166 and if young students today don't realize everything that walter Cronkite 01:23:28.199 --> 01:23:32.677 was they certainly learn it when they get to A S. U. I think so. It's not 01:23:32.710 --> 01:23:37.017 only a grabber but I think it shows our commitment to excellence in this 01:23:37.050 --> 01:23:40.317 in that particular program. 01:23:40.350 --> 01:23:44.767 The other little events and things like that. 01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:48.866 It's like, 01:23:48.899 --> 01:23:54.637 no, I think I've wriggled you as much as this old man. This old mind can 01:23:54.670 --> 01:23:58.347 remember. 01:23:58.380 --> 01:24:05.397 Yeah, okay. They're all fascinating little tip. It's been fun to recall 01:24:05.430 --> 01:24:10.097 them. So if you can think of anymore, I don't have any specific questions 01:24:10.130 --> 01:24:13.057 . 01:24:13.090 --> 01:24:19.826 I don't either right now. I, you know, I think that done really great 01:24:19.859 --> 01:24:23.847 would be interested to know that Sam Goddard has given all of his personal 01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:28.067 papers to the Hayden library. Well, you know, I I probably, when did that 01:24:28.100 --> 01:24:33.156 happen? I think I noticed it and I remembered the dedication of the 01:24:33.189 --> 01:24:41.189 building comments. That's wonderful. I love it. I love it. We 01:24:42.989 --> 01:24:46.326 sorry about it. Okay. I thought of one more thing. It just goes back to 01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:48.656 Grady Gammage. 01:24:48.689 --> 01:24:50.956 Um 01:24:50.989 --> 01:24:55.147 We not only had a football rivalry, but we had a band rivalry, A marching 01:24:55.180 --> 01:25:01.256 band rivalry and our sun Devil marching band was getting bigger and bigger 01:25:01.289 --> 01:25:04.897 and we noticed that the big game down in Tucson that next fall, whatever 01:25:04.930 --> 01:25:11.317 it was 58 59 the Wildcat band had become huge. They got new uniforms and 01:25:11.350 --> 01:25:16.607 all that and Grady looked at jimmy Chrisman and he said, we're pushing him. 01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:21.050 He says we're gonna make a great university out of that place yet. 01:25:22.090 --> 01:25:24.090 Competition is good. What do you got damaged? How does the auditorium come 01:25:26.260 --> 01:25:32.897 to help? I think he died before it was built as did in fact he and frank 01:25:32.930 --> 01:25:36.746 Lloyd wright died just about the same time. I think in late 59 and there 01:25:36.779 --> 01:25:39.517 was just kind of, I think it was just assumed, I think the region's just 01:25:39.550 --> 01:25:43.756 made it like that. A decision like that. That had to be named for damage. 01:25:43.789 --> 01:25:48.057 Did you ever know franklin? I met him a couple of times with his cape 01:25:48.090 --> 01:25:52.746 walking through the union building and it's a pork pie hat. He was really 01:25:52.779 --> 01:25:57.366 pretty close to the damages because they go to tal es and to their winter 01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:03.597 home and, or for events and frank Lloyd wright was their guest and he and 01:26:03.630 --> 01:26:07.647 his wife and their home on campus. Pretty nice relationship. So I think it 01:26:07.680 --> 01:26:11.927 was great that the two names go together on the building. Somebody 01:26:11.960 --> 01:26:16.756 mentioned to me, it seems a shame that buildings are not named anymore for 01:26:16.789 --> 01:26:21.137 notable people, but for whoever gives donors. Yeah. How do you feel about 01:26:21.170 --> 01:26:25.347 that? Well, I think that's a shame too. 01:26:25.380 --> 01:26:27.847 We have, 01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:34.017 we have the J russell and Benita nelson Fine arts Center. Um, that's an 01:26:34.050 --> 01:26:38.427 appreciation for some great work. I think we have a lot of examples on our 01:26:38.460 --> 01:26:41.977 campus that are that and I think that's the way it ought to be yet. If 01:26:42.010 --> 01:26:46.307 someone gives us $10 million I certainly don't begrudge putting their name 01:26:46.340 --> 01:26:51.097 on a building because we couldn't have that if it wasn't for them. So I 01:26:51.130 --> 01:26:55.387 think you have to do both. Do you ever see the day when do you have what 01:26:55.420 --> 01:27:01.107 you need taken off the building because somebody died right would rise 01:27:01.140 --> 01:27:07.746 from my grave and yes protest. 01:27:07.779 --> 01:27:11.727 You know if that happened then this university would have lost its way. I 01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:18.546 think you can't do that. But new buildings you don't have a name yet. Sure. 01:27:18.579 --> 01:27:23.746 Yeah. It was also in the building names committee because of my quote 01:27:23.779 --> 01:27:29.317 institutional memory unquote and we named the the language and literature 01:27:29.350 --> 01:27:34.647 building for homer Durham quite posthumously. But I thought it was 01:27:34.680 --> 01:27:40.630 important. And again recognizing the leader for what he did for this place. 01:27:41.279 --> 01:27:43.279 To the oh yeah 01:27:46.680 --> 01:27:53.347 all the BB more descendants. Yeah. Great. Yes. 01:27:53.380 --> 01:28:00.470 It shouldn't forever important use there now too with the mars probe housethere