it's robert Barnhill and Arizona State University. I was the chairman of
computer science and then the vice president for research and strategic
initiatives.
I'm Hugh burgess, I'm a retired architect and planner and former professor
and dean of the issue College of Architecture, environmental Design as it
was called in those days. My name is Rudy Campbell and I'm a former member
of the Tempe city council and a former mayor of Tempe and served 16 years
on the airs on the border regions. I nailed Glick, I am now the president
of the University of Nevada reno and when I was here I was provost and
someday senior vice president and other days executive vice president and
I spent 15 years here in those roles. My name is vernon Hastings and I was
director of the construction program at A S. U. In 1987. When I retired.
Okay. And I'm interviewing uh Professor Jack Kinzinger. My name is William
Lewis, William E Lewis. I retired from the issue in june actually 2000 and
eight after serving 42 a half years at issue. I'm Al Mchenry and right now
I'm a research professor in the Hispanic Research Center pursuing a long
term NSF project that I've been engaged with for over 20 years that is
focused on improving the number of stem graduates seeking a position in
the professorial. My full name is paige Elliott Mulholland
most of the time and I came to Arizona State University 15 78. My position
was that provost robert Oliver sometimes known as bob Oliver and I was a
professor at a issue in the college of architecture it was known then and
I was there for 25 years. Hi I'm Colleen Jennings Rogan Zack the executive
director of Arizona State University damage. And I am here with Clyde
Parker, the famous technical director of tissue damage. My name is Larry
Penley. I was dean of the business school at the W. P. Carey School of
Business for 13 years including the one year as interim dean. My name is
why again?
And I was dean of liberal arts and Sciences.
My name is Elmer Gooding and it's my honor and privilege to interview
professor emeritus lou Weschler today. And so and my name is Elmer Gooding
and it's an honor and a privilege for me to interview a very special lady
Madeline right? And we're doing this as part of the A. S. U. Retirees
association Living history video project.
Full name is Donald v dots otherwise known as Don dots. I was alumni
director for 26 years and went from there to the development office as a
fundraiser for five more years previous to being director I was on the
staff 10 years. So a total of 42 years on the staff. Wonderful guy. I
remember as a young alumni director
sneaking out of the office to go over to the old stadium, the old baseball
stadium which was just behind the emu at the time. The more speaking up
into the stands on a weekday afternoon thinking I really should be in the
office, but I'm gonna see what this bobby winkles baseball team is like, I
sneaked up there and I sat down and kind of brushed against the next guy
and homer says, hello Don,
the president was there and we enjoyed the game together.
So I also know one of my greatest memories of homer. Durham was, I was
faced with probably the first time I had to relieve someone of their
duties on my staff.
It just wasn't working out. I went to him, I kind of run my hands and I
said, you know, I have to do this. And he said, you just said, take your
time, work it right, help the individual because remember that he has a
family
and that was homer. I learned a lot from that. I think he was the right
person for me besides having jimmy as a matter. I had a president who was
really the right kind of the right example. Good to work with.
I'm Lonnie Ostrom and uh, I've been in Arizona State University for 33
years, going on 34 but I was actually named after my mother's pet rabbit.
And so it is, it was Lonnie and then my mother is named the rest of the
family and it's Lonnie Ronnie Donnie, Bonnie and money that I got here.
Today is shoes and I went to commencement in 22 times, Most of those were
like or and he always gives the same commencement address and it is
wonderful and it is help others keep learning and then he dresses it up
with a lot about that class. Those are good by words.
The Berkeley party birthday party, birthday party and there was a long uh
just north of the emu were library now sits, there was a long between the
emu and what was then east hall. So there was no Hayden library, It was
Matthews library
where jerry Lewis filmed the nutty professor if you're quick and if you
watch the widescreen version of that, you can barely see my left foot exit.
The
other funny thing about that, that movie. Yeah, well a lot of us were
hired as extras and then everybody and his brother showed up. Uh one of
the, the opening scenes of the movie or at least of the filming, uh
supposedly the nineties professors such
in the science building that from them and their small building out the
window and they were using, you know, the building with the sciences
building because that's, it says science. And so there's all this smoke
billowing out and what does the shot show a bunch of students running into
?
I'm going and when I go back and and reflect on, on all that's happened in
the last 40 some odd years,
people always ask me what's been my favorite show and it's a question I
can't answer because because there's just so much to choose from. I could
sit here for days. Well, I like this show because and I like this show and
I was overwhelmed by the it's those special moments,
those fleeting moments
that happened. It'll never happen again. I remember my Eddie Jackson for
example, and every time I think about this, I always well off and well
before we're done with this. But I remember she did this, you know her
concert, You bet
I wanted to let her go. She should finish the show. She'd walk off and
they would be on their feet, applauding and cheering more and more and she
didn't come back out and she would do another song and she'd go up more
and more. And finally she came out and she had, she had a few backing
musicians organ
and you just turned to them and just Abraham and she stepped
out on the apron
and sang, were you there? Bye? No captain, no reinforcement. Her voice
just filling the water audience with your feet
deadly site. Just no noise. She said,
Yeah,
just me.
The silence continued. I got it magic moment.
I cherish
right after the Kent state killings, we had a big rally. They're the
fountain and we had a speaker's podium and we had a professor that stood
up and called for a shutdown of the university or at least 1000
individuals out there that evening when it called for a shutdown. We had
our student student body president that then got up on the podium and
asked whoever was there, All the students, you know, to keep the calm. We
knew the next day that we were going to have all kinds of chaos and
protesting and whatever. And I need to digress here and talk about one
individual. We had a campus police chief by name of john Duffy and john
would be out on them almost all the days and a lot of his campus police
were out there too because we would have protests and we were aware that
some universities have been shut down already. So there was a lot of
volatility in in the air and john Duffy became friends with the protesters.
Some of the major protesters would come up to him and say, john, you know
, uh my wife just had a baby, Are you gonna come out and see the baby or
you haven't been out to lunch with us lately? So john had that kind of
relationship and he had a very calming effect. And prior to the major
demonstrations are marched through the streets, we would get together with
john talked with the protesters, go over the parameters. Well, we weren't
prepared for the next day after the one evening where the professor called
for a shutdown at the university. Well, we had what was called the
flagpole incident. That flagpole is no longer there, but it used to be a
visitor's parking lot and there was a bed of flowers surrounding the
flagpole. We must have had 3 to 4000 assembled around that flagpole and
the governor at the time had proclaimed that there would be no lowering of
the flag to half mast. And so there was john Duffy and he knew a lot of
these protesters and it was getting very volatile and john put his job on
the line and lower the flag to half mast and that really averted a major
bit of disruption, perhaps violence. But following that then we had some
of the major protesters at the Democratic convention in Chicago in 1968.
They became known as the Chicago seven. We had jerry Rubin, tom Hayden.
Major figures come on our campus and they were holding a rally in Old
Goodman Stadium. This was called the hard hat rally because we had all
these construction workers that had been working on buildings that had
real strong feelings, you know about protesters. We had the number of
individuals training to be pilots out at Williams Air Force Base. They all
came together on a sunday afternoon. The highway patrolman, they were
lining both goal lines. We must have had 75 Highway Patrolman there. Our
staff, student affairs staff, all of them were out there and we had our
residence hall staff pretty well split up into teams and what we had, we
had a number of protesters with the flags. So to the bottoms of their
pants, we had the loudspeaker and, and these speakers tom Hayden and jerry
Rubin that were well well known and essentially we had the hard hats and
we had the ones coming out from Williams, air force base chasing these
protesters around the field, Our staff dr hammer, he was dean of students
and he was out there. I was out there, we had a residence hall staff out
there and we were running around trying to keep these groups from
convening most of all of us, what does this in our job description? But it
was a difficult period for the, for the campus during that year. That was
an educational period for us. You are staff were out on the mall in the
spring maybe from seven o'clock till eight or nine o'clock at night.
Usually these protests would end up over at old Main Park, which was
symbolic as we still had ROTC. Then john Duffy was just such a fine person
that he was, he more than any one single individual
who was responsible for our getting through those campus protest days. And
everybody loved john, I mean faculty, they loved him and it's, it's not
easy being a campus police chief and being loved by people and we were
blessed to have john there 11 thing I didn't talk about in terms of
phenomena was streaking back in 1973
oh and the Los Angeles area and some of the other campuses streaking was
becoming a phenomenon. And so what was happening a number of the
universities. Their students were trying to break records of how many
students had streaked. So we kind of knew sooner or later it was going to
get to A. S. U. So this one day uh we're in a staff meeting with our dean
of students at that time George ham, they're about and we heard this loud
roar coming from the fountain. Everybody in Matthew's center ran out
because what was happening is this information would get out before this
drinking would happen and when this drinking would take place all of a
sudden we would see people in business attire from phoenix, you know, on
campus to observe what was going on. So we go out to the fountain and the
one fraternity, around five or six of their members had streaked from the
fountain had taken off their clothes, they put the clothes by the fountain
and they streaked down the mall to the north of them all toward Matthew's
center. Their thought was, we'll make this quick, you know, and uh we'll
be out of here. Well, they got back to the fountain, they couldn't find
their clothes. So then about two nights later we had an honors hall called
mcclintock. All women's residence hall. I don't know how this happened,
but several of the fraternities talked the women's residence hall the next
night and streaking with them. So they started at the fountain and for
attorney members formed a perimeter around the mcclintock called women and
they streaked down the mall and, and then they came back. Word got out in
advance. I mean we had several 1000 people looking on and so they knew
they were going to make the news. And then I think the same night we had a
Pentecostal group that was in Danforth Chapel
and the doors were open and when the streaking took place, some of the
streakers ran into the chapel. They just stayed momentarily because they
kicked them out. They came, they came back out. But that was an
interesting phenomenon that passed fairly quickly. But it was difficult. I
mean from a student conduct standpoint indeed. Was it indecent exposure
And we, we did call in some of the students to talk about the
appropriateness of. There was one young man that led us streaking in front
of the liberal arts building actually as in a restaurant. I recognized him
one day they were doing pre registration. So he was over at the
registration and more building. I got in line right behind him because he
had to give his name. Two days later I, I got him a letter and I called
him in and talked to him about it and we didn't take any serious
disciplinary action, but he didn't streak anymore. But I think Larry was a
reminder to mostly you treat people and how you make people feel their
value. And I saw him on the mall a number of times first of all he never
forgot a name. I think the groundskeepers or the landscapers or custodial
people, they were as high on his priority scale as you know, the top
people number of any measures. He was the one that was really a good
reminder I think to all of us about humanity and
of course the name change thing was taking place and jimmy Chrisman asked
me to serve on the committee and I think don Dotson was involved. All they
wanted me to do was in rotary and they wanted me to speak to as many
rotary clubs as a gym christian center. We want you to go in the southern
part of the states because that's where we've got to get the votes cast
brand and Coolidge and uh Hilo Ben and Yuma every rotary club member in
those was a farmer and every one of them going to the U. Of a college of
agriculture and I was in the lions then I can guarantee you trying to tell
them to vote for S you become university. Every single one of them said is
it true that you want to be a university so you can have another law
school. That was their fear, they didn't want another law school to
compete with them. Well we got it done the vote came in and Pima County,
it was 3 to 13 to one against it. And pema to 14 statewide. So the states
made us a university finally. And and then uh when Dr Gammage died about
that time, as you know. And so Homer Durham came in and he became, he
inherited a brand new university and all that went with it
one saturday morning I was out in the front yard up on a ladder trimming
the tree. And her wife came out with the telephone and said the governor's
on the phone. And she said, I told him you were up in the tree. So when I
got down on the government said get thee down Zach yes.
And then the next thing he said, I had no idea if this was coming. He said
where did you go to school? And I've always been a little sensitive that I
told you about my school. And since then. And I saw I say back east, I
went to Mesa High, which is easter Tempi and that usually satisfies
unsatisfied him. He said, he said, well the reason I asked that, he said,
I'm considering appointing you to the border regions. I wanted to make
sure that you did not go to the UK. I said, well I did not go to the U. S.
He said okay. I said now governor, I don't want you to be embarrassed by
appointing a person like me that never attended the university don't have
a degree of any kind. He said Rudy, I don't have a degree. Goldwater
doesn't have a degree and we're doing pretty well. I said well I'm game if
you are. So he appointment at the border regions for you were known as the
A. S. U. Region.
The budget hearings is where I saw the parochialism more than anywhere
else. The President's would come before us for a budget hearing and we'd
sit there all morning long listening to one presentation
and asking questions and making recommendations and all that. And when the
issue was before the president was before us, they asked him to explain
this to explain that. Could you cut down this and why do you have to have
that? You do you don't need that. That went on all morning long when the U.
Of a president came before us. They never questioned anything. Not one
thing and one outstanding example during the presentation the issue
President, he said over here on page 78 down the third paragraph, you
approved $2 million for this And he said, we really need another 250,000
because we got to watch some new equipment and we didn't have that figured
into what we asked for earlier and we approved it the next day in the
legislature was there was a Tucson legislator. He had the budget there and
he found out that we had raised 250,000 for one item. He said, I make a
motion that we raised the total budget about 250,000 to equal what they
gave the issue had passed and voted and they got another 250,000. Didn't
he have a project for it? Now you talk about parochialism. I went off in
the 82 then in 92 I had some problems with Dallas Arlington when Jack
Williams appointed me. Um He said once you come over and talk to him
sometime and I'll tell you what it's about. And boy that's fine with me.
And two days later I was in his office, he spent a full hour with me just
outlined things that he wanted me to look at and so he was very helpful.
Well one time too important to me I would call him and say, you know, I'd
like to come and talk to governor and get his ideas and what he wants me
to do and how he looks at things and what slant to put on them and all
that. Finally they gave me a date to see if it was a month away. He can
see for 30 minutes. So the day before the meeting, secretary called and
said that was really busy. So could you cut your meeting down within 15
minutes? I said well sure he was in the driver's seat. So I went in and
had to wait a long time to get to 15 minutes and he took three phone calls
in that 15 minutes and he had a girl come in the back door and tell him
something. I didn't talk to the governor five minutes. And so I never made
another problem with him. So I don't know what he wanted me to do, I want
his philosophy at least. And what are your major aims? What do you want us
to do is regions which way you want us to take the university and all that
?
The East Valley Partnership? I was a founding vice president of the East
Valley Partnership. We formed this organization out East because we
realized that East Valley was bigger than Tucson. If we'd get together in
our political activities, we had some power. We had a big meeting out in
Mesa luncheon when we invited everybody. The governor is a speaker. And so
at the end of the speech he opened up for questions and Milt lee and he
stood and I was I was on the region's now and I was keeping my hands to
hold me from standing up during the question period because he had said
some things that I disagreed with Milt lee stood up and said Governor. He
said we're here in the East Valley who are friends of a S. U. We were
really concerned about the mix of the border regions and we just wish that
you would address that the governor said, well milk. He said I have what?
And he said, I just generally I think it's a pretty good balance. And I
just didn't think there's any reason to disturb it. And I sat there and I
couldn't sit on my hands any longer. So finally I stood up and I said
we're concerned about the mix because there seems to be more people from
the U. Of A. Than we ever get from A. S. U. And he said well who are those
people? And I named them all that were down there. There was five of the
eight just like the first year I was on the board from Tucson I was giving
him these names I just read you and he was writing down so he made sure he
had him I guess it was the next morning let's see who's his sidekick. But
anyway he called me and he said mr Connelly said I'm so and so calling for
the governor and he would like for you to step down from the border
regions.
And I said well you tell the governor to call him because he appointed me.
You didn't. So if the governor wants to have me step down and I said you
have him call me. He said well he's asked me to do that. I said well I
said I'm not talking to you because I don't I don't owe you anything. And
then he got real mad and huffing with me. And I told him what happened the
day before. He said I was there And I said, well didn't I make sense with
the names I gave him. And he said, well, well somewhat but he said the
governor didn't like you do that publicly. I said, well I've done it
privately if I'd ever get to see him. But I never did get to see. I said,
I'll tell you what he was getting really angry. I said, I'll tell you what
you and the governor, you can go with the government to the nearest lake
and jump in it because I'm not resigning. And I said, you know as well as
are the only way he can get rid of me. He can only get rid of me for calls
and I would invite him to try to get rid of me for cause well and I hung
up and that was the end of that and I served out my term and he didn't
things of course have remembered most clearly is the law school when they
admitted James hamm, hey, convicted first double first degree murderer who
had executed two people in a drug deal shot him in the back of the head.
And our faculty in the law school and their wisdom admitted them, admitted
him to the law school right out of prison. And
to say that was provocative and controversial is too minimize that. I
remember the night that one night returning over 75 phone calls, that
angry callers who called the president and I answered the calls and I
always try to keep in mind that most of those people just because they
were called back, we're satisfied that somebody actually heard them. Andy
Hurwitz was chair of the board and now Supreme Court Justice and a
wonderful guy who knew how to build compromise and care deeply about the
intellectual purposes of the university. And Andy and I and Dick morgen
actually presented to a law Dean seminar this story and every one of them
was convinced. We were absolutely
crazy for having done this and we did respect the faculty. We thought they
were wrong, we thought it was a bad decision. But we also thought in fact
we made a decision, we have the obligation to defend that decision as long
as it was not made on even proper grounds. One of the stories I like to
tell about that particular incident is that a few weeks later Dean morgan
was having a party at his house and his wife
had hired a carpet cleaner too
cleaner, carpets for the party. And the carpet cleaner said MS morgen, I
assure you respect your husband. And she said, do you know my husband? And
he said yes, isn't he demorgans law school? And she said yes he is. And
she said well how would you know anything about him? And the carpet
cleaner said, well he admitted James hem to law school and she said how
would you have an opinion about that? And he said oh we were cell mates
for 15 years. So that says it's not so important who your lawyer is but
you really ought to be careful who your carpet cleaner is. And some of the
students were concerned that they wouldn't be safe with James hamm. As a
fellow student we explain a issue is now a national destination
for really talented students and it's more than sunlight. And I have to
tell you in Nevada when I talk about a. S. You, when I say I'm from A S. U.
They say gee that's a wonderful university. I think it was a wealthy
family, unknown
asset. So I think a issue and obviously it's continued to rise
invisibility. Uh A. S. U. Is a destination for more than sunlight today. I
think it is recognized as an institution on the move that takes
intellectual achievements seriously. And finally I guess one of the things
I take most pride in is seeing the people in Tucson look with a little
envy at a S. U. Because when I arrived at a issue people at a. S. You were
saying the faculty boy, I wish we could be treated and have the things
they have at the university of Arizona and be like the University of
Arizona, I genuinely believe when I left a issue people in Tucson we're
saying boy we wish we were at Arizona state university and that
transformation nobody did no single person did it. And it didn't happen
overnight. And part of it was some of the substantive changes that
happened and part of it was a issue built priding feeling of family, I
believe a feeling of community
that was not there to the same extent when I arrived that. And so over
that 15 years, uh, some of those years more than others. I think we built
a kind of family relationship that said, we can be better than we are and
we're glad we're here, not someplace else. And the people that wanted to
be someplace else they could go as my grandmother used to say when I'd
want to wait, you want to run away from home. She'd say milk gauges into
ray go in good health. I'll make you sandwiches. I never ran away and I
think faculty didn't run away. I think people really came to have great
pride in the institution, much of which they should have always had. But I
think the pride was increase that we learned to stretch together and
I had a wonderful ride and I wouldn't have traded it for anything. And I
learned a lot. I think we did a lot and I, I still think of this as my
home of all the places.
Well. He did a lot of things. He started on the road to a research one
university. I'll tell, I'll tell you another thing he did that was very
courageous. We decided that we weren't getting our share of federal
dollars because we didn't have the infrastructure and the research. So we
went after money in the direct appropriation from Congress and we were
kind of bandits in that regards because that is a no no, because most
universities have the peer review system and they look with a sconce at
anybody that gets direct appropriations from Congress. But we decided that
we had to do it because we didn't have the infrastructure to do it any
other way. And so we hired a lobbyist in convincing rust to do this. We
hired George Ramona's who was a lobbyist in Washington and paid him pretty
good money to be our lobbyist. We talked it back and forth and Russ
finally said, we're gonna go ahead and we're going to do it. And he says,
I just want to send a little note to the regions and you know, advise them
of what we're doing. And I says, Russ, this is one instance where you do
it. And then you advise the regions because I knew that the executive
director of the border regions, small abroad, I wanted to take over the
federal lobbying and make the university's go through her, which would
have been a disaster for a issue. And I encouraged rust to move fast to
hire the lobbyist. And then to tell the border regions and to his credit
he did, which was I think a very brave stand because it was much like
president damage when he decided to go to the initiative to name the
university. Well this was very courageous too because Russ did that and
told the region's later on. And then this resulted in the appropriation
for the Goldwater building and that was the 25 million that we got for the
Goldwater building that put us over the top in the special status to be a
research one university. If we hadn't had that 25 million, you have to
have so much in federal funding to qualify. And if we hadn't had that, we
weren't qualified,
I'll tell you the story of how the cardinals got here. I try and avoid
that discussion, but I thought I would live long enough to have them make
me look good. But I'm approaching retirement. My hair is getting gray.
It's hard to describe the fever that was in this community too. Have a pro
football team here. We had had, well, I'm going to tell us what a story
before I tell you a nelson story. Okay. They wanted, there was a lot of
the downtown people who wanted to use Sun Devil stadium for pro football
and cush and miller were adamantly opposed to that adamantly opposed. So
this jockeying had gone on and finally some of the powers that be downtown
decided that they would bring in a couple of proteins
to play in a big brother. And so they came up with a scheme to invite a
couple of teams here to play in Sun Devil stadium and fred miller, the
athletic director and frank kush said over our dead bodies and then Mr
Suada was invited down to the legislature into Mr Burton Barr's office
and the conversation went something like this. I wasn't there, but I heard
about the conversation and the conversation went something like this.
Presidents wanna I have a piece of legislation here that I will drop in
the hopper. Yes. The big brothers don't play that game
in Sun Devil Stadium. You got your choice and the legislation will take
the stadium away from a shoe and create a separate stadium entity to
manage it.
The game happened. That was the first breakthrough of a pro team playing
in Sun Devil Stadium
then we had the outlaws and we had other teams. We had philadelphia coming
out here. There was just a lot of agitation to play in Sun Devil Stadium
and I was the vice president over the stadium at that time. And I knew
that the agitation was continuing and I got a call from Hurt who was a
columnist for the Arizona Republic and he said the cardinals were
interested in coming.
And so I said, well we'll open up discussions
and a S. U. Was gun shy because we had had philadelphia out here and if
you remember the atmosphere philadelphia owner was going to come, his
daughter was out here to sign the agreement and the police surrounded his
place and he couldn't get out. And and he didn't, the people in
philadelphia prevailed and he and the team didn't come. And so everybody
thought that the cardinals were using us. But I opened up discussions with
the cardinals and to make a long story short, I kind of believe that they
were going to come and I was put by Russ nelson as the as kind of the
bizarre over all of these negotiations. And so we kept edging forward,
edging forward and we finally reached an agreement and then bidwell said,
I've got to have that signed by tomorrow because I'm going back to ST
louis and I'm going to need that because I'm going to the NFL to make an
announcement on whether the team is going to come here or not. But he says
I got to have that letter signed and the rust was gone. And so I wandered
around campus and thought, well, what do we do? And finally, I came back
with the legal counsel telling me not to sign that letter that I didn't
have any authority to sign that letter. And I said, yeah, I got authority
to sign that letter because I'm over the stadium and I signed contracts
all the time. And so I signed the letter and I Senate with bidwell Russ
nelson was out of town and Russ nelson came back. This was on a thursday.
I signed the letter, bidwell took it on friday on saturday. I got a phone
call at home and Russ nelson wanted to see me at his home. The one and
only time that I got called on a weekend to go see him. When I got there,
I could I could see that the atmosphere had been poisoned a little bit
because the legal counsel was there. All right. And the conversation went.
Something like this, Russ was pretty, pretty grim about it all. He said,
I understand that you have sent a letter saying that the cardinals could
play in sun Devil stadium. And I said, yes, I've done that. And he says,
can you get the letter back? And I said no, the letter is already gone.
And he says, what if I tell you to get the letter back?
And I says, well Russ, you can do this, you can fire me and then you can
tell Bruce to get the letter back. But before you do that, let me tell you
why. I signed that letter.
And I went on to explain to him that this is a time when I knew that I had
to bite the bullet because he couldn't. I said there's no way you could do
that without getting border regions approval. But I can and I'm expendable.
And if it doesn't work out, you can fire me. But I says, the thing you
don't want to do is to get yourself mixed up in the middle of this because
there there's no way that you could have sent that letter and if bidwell
had gone back and said, I couldn't get anything from a issue I wanted to
come, but they wouldn't cooperate. You might not have survived that either.
So either way it was a catch 22 for you. And I said sometimes vice
presidents are there to be expendable and so I did that now you can fire
me if you want to and to his credit, he didn't fire me. We went through a
lot of ups and downs, but we did get him in Sun Devil Stadium. We got some
new sky boxes built the city of phoenix wanted to come and play in our
stadium and the downtown people and then leave us without anything. And I
said it's not gonna happen. So they build us some skyboxes, they improved
the stadium and they played here from, this is 87 they'll probably be here
for 20 years. So all in all, not too bad. Maybe they'll win someday. Mhm.
They played sports activities. Oh, pain, pain, lots of pain and continues
to be pain,
Lots of pain. Were you involved with kush! I became kush! I took over as
director of community relations under kush! No. And kush was a coach in
july and he was fired in october disaster. Okay. Disaster. I took over as
assistant vice president. You know, I moved up the ladder a little bit. No
, as vice president, I think I took over as vice president when Winehouse
was fired. That was another unmitigated disaster.
But those stories are too long probably for you to tell. There's there are
stories there though.
We're actually we're out okay. We have to talk about the story. I think
you're much too young to be retiring.
We rented a u haul truck without air conditioning and we came down to got
as far as Holbrook and they recommended we'll just, you know, turn south
and cut across and come on down through pacing And so we did. And as we
came down the hill it kept getting hotter and hotter and hotter. And my
wife looked over at me and she said, where are you taking me? I appreciate
the opportunity to have done this. I think it's a great project and I hope
that the video history project and help preserve some of ourhistory