WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.297 it's robert Barnhill and Arizona State University. I was the chairman of 00:00:04.330 --> 00:00:08.226 computer science and then the vice president for research and strategic 00:00:08.259 --> 00:00:10.306 initiatives. 00:00:10.339 --> 00:00:16.326 I'm Hugh burgess, I'm a retired architect and planner and former professor 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:21.497 and dean of the issue College of Architecture, environmental Design as it 00:00:21.530 --> 00:00:26.936 was called in those days. My name is Rudy Campbell and I'm a former member 00:00:26.969 --> 00:00:31.857 of the Tempe city council and a former mayor of Tempe and served 16 years 00:00:31.890 --> 00:00:37.467 on the airs on the border regions. I nailed Glick, I am now the president 00:00:37.500 --> 00:00:42.376 of the University of Nevada reno and when I was here I was provost and 00:00:42.409 --> 00:00:47.347 someday senior vice president and other days executive vice president and 00:00:47.380 --> 00:00:53.737 I spent 15 years here in those roles. My name is vernon Hastings and I was 00:00:53.770 --> 00:01:01.770 director of the construction program at A S. U. In 1987. When I retired. 00:01:02.140 --> 00:01:04.140 Okay. And I'm interviewing uh Professor Jack Kinzinger. My name is William 00:01:07.569 --> 00:01:13.676 Lewis, William E Lewis. I retired from the issue in june actually 2000 and 00:01:13.709 --> 00:01:20.647 eight after serving 42 a half years at issue. I'm Al Mchenry and right now 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:25.387 I'm a research professor in the Hispanic Research Center pursuing a long 00:01:25.420 --> 00:01:32.426 term NSF project that I've been engaged with for over 20 years that is 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:39.247 focused on improving the number of stem graduates seeking a position in 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:45.227 the professorial. My full name is paige Elliott Mulholland 00:01:45.260 --> 00:01:53.260 most of the time and I came to Arizona State University 15 78. My position 00:01:53.590 --> 00:02:01.590 was that provost robert Oliver sometimes known as bob Oliver and I was a 00:02:02.290 --> 00:02:07.906 professor at a issue in the college of architecture it was known then and 00:02:07.939 --> 00:02:13.596 I was there for 25 years. Hi I'm Colleen Jennings Rogan Zack the executive 00:02:13.629 --> 00:02:20.786 director of Arizona State University damage. And I am here with Clyde 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:28.057 Parker, the famous technical director of tissue damage. My name is Larry 00:02:28.090 --> 00:02:32.126 Penley. I was dean of the business school at the W. P. Carey School of 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:38.207 Business for 13 years including the one year as interim dean. My name is 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.707 why again? 00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:48.547 And I was dean of liberal arts and Sciences. 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:53.356 My name is Elmer Gooding and it's my honor and privilege to interview 00:02:53.389 --> 00:02:58.196 professor emeritus lou Weschler today. And so and my name is Elmer Gooding 00:02:58.229 --> 00:03:02.677 and it's an honor and a privilege for me to interview a very special lady 00:03:02.710 --> 00:03:06.827 Madeline right? And we're doing this as part of the A. S. U. Retirees 00:03:06.860 --> 00:03:14.707 association Living history video project. 00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:20.327 Full name is Donald v dots otherwise known as Don dots. I was alumni 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:26.436 director for 26 years and went from there to the development office as a 00:03:26.469 --> 00:03:30.647 fundraiser for five more years previous to being director I was on the 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:36.816 staff 10 years. So a total of 42 years on the staff. Wonderful guy. I 00:03:36.849 --> 00:03:40.807 remember as a young alumni director 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:45.547 sneaking out of the office to go over to the old stadium, the old baseball 00:03:45.580 --> 00:03:51.166 stadium which was just behind the emu at the time. The more speaking up 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.087 into the stands on a weekday afternoon thinking I really should be in the 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:58.997 office, but I'm gonna see what this bobby winkles baseball team is like, I 00:03:59.030 --> 00:04:02.476 sneaked up there and I sat down and kind of brushed against the next guy 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:06.207 and homer says, hello Don, 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:12.106 the president was there and we enjoyed the game together. 00:04:12.139 --> 00:04:16.877 So I also know one of my greatest memories of homer. Durham was, I was 00:04:16.910 --> 00:04:21.377 faced with probably the first time I had to relieve someone of their 00:04:21.410 --> 00:04:24.507 duties on my staff. 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:28.036 It just wasn't working out. I went to him, I kind of run my hands and I 00:04:28.069 --> 00:04:32.746 said, you know, I have to do this. And he said, you just said, take your 00:04:32.779 --> 00:04:38.156 time, work it right, help the individual because remember that he has a 00:04:38.189 --> 00:04:40.406 family 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:45.236 and that was homer. I learned a lot from that. I think he was the right 00:04:45.269 --> 00:04:49.246 person for me besides having jimmy as a matter. I had a president who was 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:57.279 really the right kind of the right example. Good to work with. 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:06.027 I'm Lonnie Ostrom and uh, I've been in Arizona State University for 33 00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:11.087 years, going on 34 but I was actually named after my mother's pet rabbit. 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:17.447 And so it is, it was Lonnie and then my mother is named the rest of the 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:21.486 family and it's Lonnie Ronnie Donnie, Bonnie and money that I got here. 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:25.096 Today is shoes and I went to commencement in 22 times, Most of those were 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:28.217 like or and he always gives the same commencement address and it is 00:05:28.250 --> 00:05:34.187 wonderful and it is help others keep learning and then he dresses it up 00:05:34.220 --> 00:05:42.220 with a lot about that class. Those are good by words. 00:05:42.250 --> 00:05:48.837 The Berkeley party birthday party, birthday party and there was a long uh 00:05:48.870 --> 00:05:56.437 just north of the emu were library now sits, there was a long between the 00:05:56.470 --> 00:06:01.546 emu and what was then east hall. So there was no Hayden library, It was 00:06:01.579 --> 00:06:04.236 Matthews library 00:06:04.269 --> 00:06:08.637 where jerry Lewis filmed the nutty professor if you're quick and if you 00:06:08.670 --> 00:06:14.257 watch the widescreen version of that, you can barely see my left foot exit. 00:06:14.290 --> 00:06:16.707 The 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:20.986 other funny thing about that, that movie. Yeah, well a lot of us were 00:06:21.019 --> 00:06:25.906 hired as extras and then everybody and his brother showed up. Uh one of 00:06:25.939 --> 00:06:31.027 the, the opening scenes of the movie or at least of the filming, uh 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:34.637 supposedly the nineties professors such 00:06:34.670 --> 00:06:38.127 in the science building that from them and their small building out the 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.786 window and they were using, you know, the building with the sciences 00:06:42.819 --> 00:06:48.556 building because that's, it says science. And so there's all this smoke 00:06:48.589 --> 00:06:53.226 billowing out and what does the shot show a bunch of students running into 00:06:53.259 --> 00:06:55.277 ? 00:06:55.310 --> 00:07:02.647 I'm going and when I go back and and reflect on, on all that's happened in 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.507 the last 40 some odd years, 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:09.257 people always ask me what's been my favorite show and it's a question I 00:07:09.290 --> 00:07:12.947 can't answer because because there's just so much to choose from. I could 00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:16.827 sit here for days. Well, I like this show because and I like this show and 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:22.106 I was overwhelmed by the it's those special moments, 00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:25.606 those fleeting moments 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:31.457 that happened. It'll never happen again. I remember my Eddie Jackson for 00:07:31.490 --> 00:07:35.877 example, and every time I think about this, I always well off and well 00:07:35.910 --> 00:07:39.796 before we're done with this. But I remember she did this, you know her 00:07:39.829 --> 00:07:44.406 concert, You bet 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:48.846 I wanted to let her go. She should finish the show. She'd walk off and 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:53.416 they would be on their feet, applauding and cheering more and more and she 00:07:53.449 --> 00:07:56.976 didn't come back out and she would do another song and she'd go up more 00:07:57.009 --> 00:08:04.837 and more. And finally she came out and she had, she had a few backing 00:08:04.870 --> 00:08:10.866 musicians organ 00:08:10.899 --> 00:08:17.567 and you just turned to them and just Abraham and she stepped 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.096 out on the apron 00:08:20.129 --> 00:08:28.129 and sang, were you there? Bye? No captain, no reinforcement. Her voice 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:35.886 just filling the water audience with your feet 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:42.407 deadly site. Just no noise. She said, 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:45.907 Yeah, 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:48.506 just me. 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:56.539 The silence continued. I got it magic moment. 00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:10.707 I cherish 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:16.557 right after the Kent state killings, we had a big rally. They're the 00:09:16.590 --> 00:09:22.356 fountain and we had a speaker's podium and we had a professor that stood 00:09:22.389 --> 00:09:26.616 up and called for a shutdown of the university or at least 1000 00:09:26.649 --> 00:09:30.467 individuals out there that evening when it called for a shutdown. We had 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:34.746 our student student body president that then got up on the podium and 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:39.016 asked whoever was there, All the students, you know, to keep the calm. We 00:09:39.049 --> 00:09:44.526 knew the next day that we were going to have all kinds of chaos and 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:48.886 protesting and whatever. And I need to digress here and talk about one 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:55.907 individual. We had a campus police chief by name of john Duffy and john 00:09:55.940 --> 00:10:00.587 would be out on them almost all the days and a lot of his campus police 00:10:00.620 --> 00:10:06.486 were out there too because we would have protests and we were aware that 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:10.297 some universities have been shut down already. So there was a lot of 00:10:10.330 --> 00:10:15.707 volatility in in the air and john Duffy became friends with the protesters. 00:10:15.740 --> 00:10:20.006 Some of the major protesters would come up to him and say, john, you know 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.577 , uh my wife just had a baby, Are you gonna come out and see the baby or 00:10:24.610 --> 00:10:28.986 you haven't been out to lunch with us lately? So john had that kind of 00:10:29.019 --> 00:10:33.496 relationship and he had a very calming effect. And prior to the major 00:10:33.529 --> 00:10:36.726 demonstrations are marched through the streets, we would get together with 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:40.606 john talked with the protesters, go over the parameters. Well, we weren't 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:45.037 prepared for the next day after the one evening where the professor called 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:47.907 for a shutdown at the university. Well, we had what was called the 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:51.896 flagpole incident. That flagpole is no longer there, but it used to be a 00:10:51.929 --> 00:10:57.407 visitor's parking lot and there was a bed of flowers surrounding the 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:03.636 flagpole. We must have had 3 to 4000 assembled around that flagpole and 00:11:03.669 --> 00:11:07.297 the governor at the time had proclaimed that there would be no lowering of 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:12.427 the flag to half mast. And so there was john Duffy and he knew a lot of 00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:18.337 these protesters and it was getting very volatile and john put his job on 00:11:18.370 --> 00:11:24.807 the line and lower the flag to half mast and that really averted a major 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:32.266 bit of disruption, perhaps violence. But following that then we had some 00:11:32.299 --> 00:11:37.937 of the major protesters at the Democratic convention in Chicago in 1968. 00:11:37.970 --> 00:11:43.457 They became known as the Chicago seven. We had jerry Rubin, tom Hayden. 00:11:43.490 --> 00:11:48.606 Major figures come on our campus and they were holding a rally in Old 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:53.427 Goodman Stadium. This was called the hard hat rally because we had all 00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:56.787 these construction workers that had been working on buildings that had 00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:02.187 real strong feelings, you know about protesters. We had the number of 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:06.917 individuals training to be pilots out at Williams Air Force Base. They all 00:12:06.950 --> 00:12:10.736 came together on a sunday afternoon. The highway patrolman, they were 00:12:10.769 --> 00:12:16.736 lining both goal lines. We must have had 75 Highway Patrolman there. Our 00:12:16.769 --> 00:12:21.327 staff, student affairs staff, all of them were out there and we had our 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:26.726 residence hall staff pretty well split up into teams and what we had, we 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.157 had a number of protesters with the flags. So to the bottoms of their 00:12:30.190 --> 00:12:34.827 pants, we had the loudspeaker and, and these speakers tom Hayden and jerry 00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:39.837 Rubin that were well well known and essentially we had the hard hats and 00:12:39.870 --> 00:12:44.256 we had the ones coming out from Williams, air force base chasing these 00:12:44.289 --> 00:12:49.266 protesters around the field, Our staff dr hammer, he was dean of students 00:12:49.299 --> 00:12:52.547 and he was out there. I was out there, we had a residence hall staff out 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:56.337 there and we were running around trying to keep these groups from 00:12:56.370 --> 00:13:00.467 convening most of all of us, what does this in our job description? But it 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:05.246 was a difficult period for the, for the campus during that year. That was 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.817 an educational period for us. You are staff were out on the mall in the 00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:14.907 spring maybe from seven o'clock till eight or nine o'clock at night. 00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:18.746 Usually these protests would end up over at old Main Park, which was 00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:25.417 symbolic as we still had ROTC. Then john Duffy was just such a fine person 00:13:25.450 --> 00:13:31.606 that he was, he more than any one single individual 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:37.467 who was responsible for our getting through those campus protest days. And 00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:42.157 everybody loved john, I mean faculty, they loved him and it's, it's not 00:13:42.190 --> 00:13:46.427 easy being a campus police chief and being loved by people and we were 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:50.217 blessed to have john there 11 thing I didn't talk about in terms of 00:13:50.250 --> 00:13:55.307 phenomena was streaking back in 1973 00:13:55.340 --> 00:13:59.636 oh and the Los Angeles area and some of the other campuses streaking was 00:13:59.669 --> 00:14:03.157 becoming a phenomenon. And so what was happening a number of the 00:14:03.190 --> 00:14:07.136 universities. Their students were trying to break records of how many 00:14:07.169 --> 00:14:11.476 students had streaked. So we kind of knew sooner or later it was going to 00:14:11.509 --> 00:14:16.366 get to A. S. U. So this one day uh we're in a staff meeting with our dean 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.636 of students at that time George ham, they're about and we heard this loud 00:14:19.669 --> 00:14:24.116 roar coming from the fountain. Everybody in Matthew's center ran out 00:14:24.149 --> 00:14:28.717 because what was happening is this information would get out before this 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:32.376 drinking would happen and when this drinking would take place all of a 00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:37.136 sudden we would see people in business attire from phoenix, you know, on 00:14:37.169 --> 00:14:41.346 campus to observe what was going on. So we go out to the fountain and the 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:46.026 one fraternity, around five or six of their members had streaked from the 00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:50.407 fountain had taken off their clothes, they put the clothes by the fountain 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:54.276 and they streaked down the mall to the north of them all toward Matthew's 00:14:54.309 --> 00:14:58.976 center. Their thought was, we'll make this quick, you know, and uh we'll 00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:02.177 be out of here. Well, they got back to the fountain, they couldn't find 00:15:02.210 --> 00:15:07.547 their clothes. So then about two nights later we had an honors hall called 00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:10.596 mcclintock. All women's residence hall. I don't know how this happened, 00:15:10.629 --> 00:15:14.067 but several of the fraternities talked the women's residence hall the next 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:18.126 night and streaking with them. So they started at the fountain and for 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:24.766 attorney members formed a perimeter around the mcclintock called women and 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.766 they streaked down the mall and, and then they came back. Word got out in 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:34.797 advance. I mean we had several 1000 people looking on and so they knew 00:15:34.830 --> 00:15:39.937 they were going to make the news. And then I think the same night we had a 00:15:39.970 --> 00:15:44.327 Pentecostal group that was in Danforth Chapel 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:50.437 and the doors were open and when the streaking took place, some of the 00:15:50.470 --> 00:15:54.407 streakers ran into the chapel. They just stayed momentarily because they 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.807 kicked them out. They came, they came back out. But that was an 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:03.937 interesting phenomenon that passed fairly quickly. But it was difficult. I 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:08.207 mean from a student conduct standpoint indeed. Was it indecent exposure 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.087 And we, we did call in some of the students to talk about the 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.157 appropriateness of. There was one young man that led us streaking in front 00:16:15.190 --> 00:16:18.937 of the liberal arts building actually as in a restaurant. I recognized him 00:16:18.970 --> 00:16:22.657 one day they were doing pre registration. So he was over at the 00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:26.337 registration and more building. I got in line right behind him because he 00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:30.476 had to give his name. Two days later I, I got him a letter and I called 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:35.427 him in and talked to him about it and we didn't take any serious 00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:40.917 disciplinary action, but he didn't streak anymore. But I think Larry was a 00:16:40.950 --> 00:16:46.116 reminder to mostly you treat people and how you make people feel their 00:16:46.149 --> 00:16:50.057 value. And I saw him on the mall a number of times first of all he never 00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:55.636 forgot a name. I think the groundskeepers or the landscapers or custodial 00:16:55.669 --> 00:16:59.236 people, they were as high on his priority scale as you know, the top 00:16:59.269 --> 00:17:05.417 people number of any measures. He was the one that was really a good 00:17:05.450 --> 00:17:13.450 reminder I think to all of us about humanity and 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.316 of course the name change thing was taking place and jimmy Chrisman asked 00:17:21.349 --> 00:17:24.897 me to serve on the committee and I think don Dotson was involved. All they 00:17:24.930 --> 00:17:29.226 wanted me to do was in rotary and they wanted me to speak to as many 00:17:29.259 --> 00:17:32.707 rotary clubs as a gym christian center. We want you to go in the southern 00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:35.677 part of the states because that's where we've got to get the votes cast 00:17:35.710 --> 00:17:41.256 brand and Coolidge and uh Hilo Ben and Yuma every rotary club member in 00:17:41.289 --> 00:17:45.467 those was a farmer and every one of them going to the U. Of a college of 00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:49.097 agriculture and I was in the lions then I can guarantee you trying to tell 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:53.407 them to vote for S you become university. Every single one of them said is 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.336 it true that you want to be a university so you can have another law 00:17:56.369 --> 00:18:00.276 school. That was their fear, they didn't want another law school to 00:18:00.309 --> 00:18:04.786 compete with them. Well we got it done the vote came in and Pima County, 00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:11.576 it was 3 to 13 to one against it. And pema to 14 statewide. So the states 00:18:11.609 --> 00:18:16.947 made us a university finally. And and then uh when Dr Gammage died about 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:21.506 that time, as you know. And so Homer Durham came in and he became, he 00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:28.506 inherited a brand new university and all that went with it 00:18:28.539 --> 00:18:31.957 one saturday morning I was out in the front yard up on a ladder trimming 00:18:31.990 --> 00:18:35.766 the tree. And her wife came out with the telephone and said the governor's 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:40.857 on the phone. And she said, I told him you were up in the tree. So when I 00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:45.806 got down on the government said get thee down Zach yes. 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:51.357 And then the next thing he said, I had no idea if this was coming. He said 00:18:51.390 --> 00:18:55.467 where did you go to school? And I've always been a little sensitive that I 00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:59.756 told you about my school. And since then. And I saw I say back east, I 00:18:59.789 --> 00:19:04.617 went to Mesa High, which is easter Tempi and that usually satisfies 00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:10.526 unsatisfied him. He said, he said, well the reason I asked that, he said, 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.627 I'm considering appointing you to the border regions. I wanted to make 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:18.256 sure that you did not go to the UK. I said, well I did not go to the U. S. 00:19:18.289 --> 00:19:22.437 He said okay. I said now governor, I don't want you to be embarrassed by 00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:25.187 appointing a person like me that never attended the university don't have 00:19:25.220 --> 00:19:29.707 a degree of any kind. He said Rudy, I don't have a degree. Goldwater 00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:34.306 doesn't have a degree and we're doing pretty well. I said well I'm game if 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:38.167 you are. So he appointment at the border regions for you were known as the 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.857 A. S. U. Region. 00:19:40.890 --> 00:19:44.246 The budget hearings is where I saw the parochialism more than anywhere 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.756 else. The President's would come before us for a budget hearing and we'd 00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:52.407 sit there all morning long listening to one presentation 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.877 and asking questions and making recommendations and all that. And when the 00:19:57.910 --> 00:20:03.377 issue was before the president was before us, they asked him to explain 00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:06.576 this to explain that. Could you cut down this and why do you have to have 00:20:06.609 --> 00:20:12.006 that? You do you don't need that. That went on all morning long when the U. 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:16.937 Of a president came before us. They never questioned anything. Not one 00:20:16.970 --> 00:20:22.766 thing and one outstanding example during the presentation the issue 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:27.367 President, he said over here on page 78 down the third paragraph, you 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:33.857 approved $2 million for this And he said, we really need another 250,000 00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:36.637 because we got to watch some new equipment and we didn't have that figured 00:20:36.670 --> 00:20:42.207 into what we asked for earlier and we approved it the next day in the 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.697 legislature was there was a Tucson legislator. He had the budget there and 00:20:46.730 --> 00:20:51.226 he found out that we had raised 250,000 for one item. He said, I make a 00:20:51.259 --> 00:20:54.996 motion that we raised the total budget about 250,000 to equal what they 00:20:55.029 --> 00:20:58.486 gave the issue had passed and voted and they got another 250,000. Didn't 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:03.996 he have a project for it? Now you talk about parochialism. I went off in 00:21:04.029 --> 00:21:11.407 the 82 then in 92 I had some problems with Dallas Arlington when Jack 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:16.016 Williams appointed me. Um He said once you come over and talk to him 00:21:16.049 --> 00:21:19.167 sometime and I'll tell you what it's about. And boy that's fine with me. 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.467 And two days later I was in his office, he spent a full hour with me just 00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:26.806 outlined things that he wanted me to look at and so he was very helpful. 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.897 Well one time too important to me I would call him and say, you know, I'd 00:21:29.930 --> 00:21:33.486 like to come and talk to governor and get his ideas and what he wants me 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.486 to do and how he looks at things and what slant to put on them and all 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:40.907 that. Finally they gave me a date to see if it was a month away. He can 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:46.546 see for 30 minutes. So the day before the meeting, secretary called and 00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:50.066 said that was really busy. So could you cut your meeting down within 15 00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:55.286 minutes? I said well sure he was in the driver's seat. So I went in and 00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:00.006 had to wait a long time to get to 15 minutes and he took three phone calls 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.927 in that 15 minutes and he had a girl come in the back door and tell him 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:08.226 something. I didn't talk to the governor five minutes. And so I never made 00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:11.056 another problem with him. So I don't know what he wanted me to do, I want 00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:14.637 his philosophy at least. And what are your major aims? What do you want us 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:17.197 to do is regions which way you want us to take the university and all that 00:22:17.230 --> 00:22:20.306 ? 00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:24.667 The East Valley Partnership? I was a founding vice president of the East 00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:27.937 Valley Partnership. We formed this organization out East because we 00:22:27.970 --> 00:22:32.476 realized that East Valley was bigger than Tucson. If we'd get together in 00:22:32.509 --> 00:22:37.937 our political activities, we had some power. We had a big meeting out in 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:42.927 Mesa luncheon when we invited everybody. The governor is a speaker. And so 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:47.207 at the end of the speech he opened up for questions and Milt lee and he 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:52.566 stood and I was I was on the region's now and I was keeping my hands to 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.967 hold me from standing up during the question period because he had said 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.586 some things that I disagreed with Milt lee stood up and said Governor. He 00:23:00.619 --> 00:23:04.167 said we're here in the East Valley who are friends of a S. U. We were 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:08.996 really concerned about the mix of the border regions and we just wish that 00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:13.907 you would address that the governor said, well milk. He said I have what? 00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:17.387 And he said, I just generally I think it's a pretty good balance. And I 00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:20.867 just didn't think there's any reason to disturb it. And I sat there and I 00:23:20.900 --> 00:23:23.927 couldn't sit on my hands any longer. So finally I stood up and I said 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:27.286 we're concerned about the mix because there seems to be more people from 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:33.597 the U. Of A. Than we ever get from A. S. U. And he said well who are those 00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:37.486 people? And I named them all that were down there. There was five of the 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:42.137 eight just like the first year I was on the board from Tucson I was giving 00:23:42.170 --> 00:23:44.937 him these names I just read you and he was writing down so he made sure he 00:23:44.970 --> 00:23:49.016 had him I guess it was the next morning let's see who's his sidekick. But 00:23:49.049 --> 00:23:54.137 anyway he called me and he said mr Connelly said I'm so and so calling for 00:23:54.170 --> 00:23:57.217 the governor and he would like for you to step down from the border 00:23:57.250 --> 00:23:59.306 regions. 00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:02.306 And I said well you tell the governor to call him because he appointed me. 00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:06.157 You didn't. So if the governor wants to have me step down and I said you 00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:10.427 have him call me. He said well he's asked me to do that. I said well I 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:14.546 said I'm not talking to you because I don't I don't owe you anything. And 00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:17.957 then he got real mad and huffing with me. And I told him what happened the 00:24:17.990 --> 00:24:21.427 day before. He said I was there And I said, well didn't I make sense with 00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:24.937 the names I gave him. And he said, well, well somewhat but he said the 00:24:24.970 --> 00:24:28.157 governor didn't like you do that publicly. I said, well I've done it 00:24:28.190 --> 00:24:31.457 privately if I'd ever get to see him. But I never did get to see. I said, 00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:34.256 I'll tell you what he was getting really angry. I said, I'll tell you what 00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:36.927 you and the governor, you can go with the government to the nearest lake 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:40.877 and jump in it because I'm not resigning. And I said, you know as well as 00:24:40.910 --> 00:24:44.847 are the only way he can get rid of me. He can only get rid of me for calls 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.806 and I would invite him to try to get rid of me for cause well and I hung 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:56.006 up and that was the end of that and I served out my term and he didn't 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.877 things of course have remembered most clearly is the law school when they 00:25:00.910 --> 00:25:08.836 admitted James hamm, hey, convicted first double first degree murderer who 00:25:08.869 --> 00:25:16.107 had executed two people in a drug deal shot him in the back of the head. 00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:22.756 And our faculty in the law school and their wisdom admitted them, admitted 00:25:22.789 --> 00:25:28.506 him to the law school right out of prison. And 00:25:28.539 --> 00:25:35.546 to say that was provocative and controversial is too minimize that. I 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:41.576 remember the night that one night returning over 75 phone calls, that 00:25:41.609 --> 00:25:48.776 angry callers who called the president and I answered the calls and I 00:25:48.809 --> 00:25:53.117 always try to keep in mind that most of those people just because they 00:25:53.150 --> 00:26:00.207 were called back, we're satisfied that somebody actually heard them. Andy 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:07.816 Hurwitz was chair of the board and now Supreme Court Justice and a 00:26:07.849 --> 00:26:12.867 wonderful guy who knew how to build compromise and care deeply about the 00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:20.766 intellectual purposes of the university. And Andy and I and Dick morgen 00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:27.167 actually presented to a law Dean seminar this story and every one of them 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:31.707 was convinced. We were absolutely 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:37.536 crazy for having done this and we did respect the faculty. We thought they 00:26:37.569 --> 00:26:42.637 were wrong, we thought it was a bad decision. But we also thought in fact 00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:47.657 we made a decision, we have the obligation to defend that decision as long 00:26:47.690 --> 00:26:52.496 as it was not made on even proper grounds. One of the stories I like to 00:26:52.529 --> 00:27:00.529 tell about that particular incident is that a few weeks later Dean morgan 00:27:00.569 --> 00:27:05.207 was having a party at his house and his wife 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:11.107 had hired a carpet cleaner too 00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:16.766 cleaner, carpets for the party. And the carpet cleaner said MS morgen, I 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:23.766 assure you respect your husband. And she said, do you know my husband? And 00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:29.607 he said yes, isn't he demorgans law school? And she said yes he is. And 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:36.607 she said well how would you know anything about him? And the carpet 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:44.266 cleaner said, well he admitted James hem to law school and she said how 00:27:44.299 --> 00:27:47.607 would you have an opinion about that? And he said oh we were cell mates 00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:53.066 for 15 years. So that says it's not so important who your lawyer is but 00:27:53.099 --> 00:27:57.717 you really ought to be careful who your carpet cleaner is. And some of the 00:27:57.750 --> 00:28:03.207 students were concerned that they wouldn't be safe with James hamm. As a 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:11.240 fellow student we explain a issue is now a national destination 00:28:11.539 --> 00:28:17.996 for really talented students and it's more than sunlight. And I have to 00:28:18.029 --> 00:28:25.207 tell you in Nevada when I talk about a. S. You, when I say I'm from A S. U. 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:31.117 They say gee that's a wonderful university. I think it was a wealthy 00:28:31.150 --> 00:28:34.107 family, unknown 00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:40.236 asset. So I think a issue and obviously it's continued to rise 00:28:40.269 --> 00:28:46.357 invisibility. Uh A. S. U. Is a destination for more than sunlight today. I 00:28:46.390 --> 00:28:52.407 think it is recognized as an institution on the move that takes 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:57.066 intellectual achievements seriously. And finally I guess one of the things 00:28:57.099 --> 00:29:03.336 I take most pride in is seeing the people in Tucson look with a little 00:29:03.369 --> 00:29:11.369 envy at a S. U. Because when I arrived at a issue people at a. S. You were 00:29:11.690 --> 00:29:16.976 saying the faculty boy, I wish we could be treated and have the things 00:29:17.009 --> 00:29:21.086 they have at the university of Arizona and be like the University of 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:27.046 Arizona, I genuinely believe when I left a issue people in Tucson we're 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:33.607 saying boy we wish we were at Arizona state university and that 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.996 transformation nobody did no single person did it. And it didn't happen 00:29:38.029 --> 00:29:44.687 overnight. And part of it was some of the substantive changes that 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:51.427 happened and part of it was a issue built priding feeling of family, I 00:29:51.460 --> 00:29:54.907 believe a feeling of community 00:29:54.940 --> 00:30:00.597 that was not there to the same extent when I arrived that. And so over 00:30:00.630 --> 00:30:08.107 that 15 years, uh, some of those years more than others. I think we built 00:30:08.140 --> 00:30:13.276 a kind of family relationship that said, we can be better than we are and 00:30:13.309 --> 00:30:17.707 we're glad we're here, not someplace else. And the people that wanted to 00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:23.117 be someplace else they could go as my grandmother used to say when I'd 00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:27.707 want to wait, you want to run away from home. She'd say milk gauges into 00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:33.826 ray go in good health. I'll make you sandwiches. I never ran away and I 00:30:33.859 --> 00:30:38.286 think faculty didn't run away. I think people really came to have great 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:43.536 pride in the institution, much of which they should have always had. But I 00:30:43.569 --> 00:30:51.569 think the pride was increase that we learned to stretch together and 00:30:51.890 --> 00:30:56.937 I had a wonderful ride and I wouldn't have traded it for anything. And I 00:30:56.970 --> 00:31:04.970 learned a lot. I think we did a lot and I, I still think of this as my 00:31:06.289 --> 00:31:14.289 home of all the places. 00:31:16.339 --> 00:31:20.857 Well. He did a lot of things. He started on the road to a research one 00:31:20.890 --> 00:31:24.427 university. I'll tell, I'll tell you another thing he did that was very 00:31:24.460 --> 00:31:29.076 courageous. We decided that we weren't getting our share of federal 00:31:29.109 --> 00:31:34.887 dollars because we didn't have the infrastructure and the research. So we 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:42.157 went after money in the direct appropriation from Congress and we were 00:31:42.190 --> 00:31:46.986 kind of bandits in that regards because that is a no no, because most 00:31:47.019 --> 00:31:53.607 universities have the peer review system and they look with a sconce at 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:58.776 anybody that gets direct appropriations from Congress. But we decided that 00:31:58.809 --> 00:32:02.276 we had to do it because we didn't have the infrastructure to do it any 00:32:02.309 --> 00:32:09.887 other way. And so we hired a lobbyist in convincing rust to do this. We 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:15.816 hired George Ramona's who was a lobbyist in Washington and paid him pretty 00:32:15.849 --> 00:32:19.826 good money to be our lobbyist. We talked it back and forth and Russ 00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:24.506 finally said, we're gonna go ahead and we're going to do it. And he says, 00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.256 I just want to send a little note to the regions and you know, advise them 00:32:28.289 --> 00:32:33.056 of what we're doing. And I says, Russ, this is one instance where you do 00:32:33.089 --> 00:32:39.566 it. And then you advise the regions because I knew that the executive 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:44.677 director of the border regions, small abroad, I wanted to take over the 00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:49.306 federal lobbying and make the university's go through her, which would 00:32:49.339 --> 00:32:54.437 have been a disaster for a issue. And I encouraged rust to move fast to 00:32:54.470 --> 00:32:59.647 hire the lobbyist. And then to tell the border regions and to his credit 00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:07.046 he did, which was I think a very brave stand because it was much like 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:12.417 president damage when he decided to go to the initiative to name the 00:33:12.450 --> 00:33:20.450 university. Well this was very courageous too because Russ did that and 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:25.586 told the region's later on. And then this resulted in the appropriation 00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:30.457 for the Goldwater building and that was the 25 million that we got for the 00:33:30.490 --> 00:33:35.937 Goldwater building that put us over the top in the special status to be a 00:33:35.970 --> 00:33:40.437 research one university. If we hadn't had that 25 million, you have to 00:33:40.470 --> 00:33:44.927 have so much in federal funding to qualify. And if we hadn't had that, we 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:50.207 weren't qualified, 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:55.417 I'll tell you the story of how the cardinals got here. I try and avoid 00:33:55.450 --> 00:34:00.177 that discussion, but I thought I would live long enough to have them make 00:34:00.210 --> 00:34:06.306 me look good. But I'm approaching retirement. My hair is getting gray. 00:34:06.339 --> 00:34:13.796 It's hard to describe the fever that was in this community too. Have a pro 00:34:13.829 --> 00:34:20.086 football team here. We had had, well, I'm going to tell us what a story 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:27.336 before I tell you a nelson story. Okay. They wanted, there was a lot of 00:34:27.369 --> 00:34:33.106 the downtown people who wanted to use Sun Devil stadium for pro football 00:34:33.139 --> 00:34:39.706 and cush and miller were adamantly opposed to that adamantly opposed. So 00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:45.557 this jockeying had gone on and finally some of the powers that be downtown 00:34:45.590 --> 00:34:51.106 decided that they would bring in a couple of proteins 00:34:51.139 --> 00:34:55.137 to play in a big brother. And so they came up with a scheme to invite a 00:34:55.170 --> 00:35:01.006 couple of teams here to play in Sun Devil stadium and fred miller, the 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:06.947 athletic director and frank kush said over our dead bodies and then Mr 00:35:06.980 --> 00:35:14.307 Suada was invited down to the legislature into Mr Burton Barr's office 00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:18.166 and the conversation went something like this. I wasn't there, but I heard 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:23.706 about the conversation and the conversation went something like this. 00:35:23.739 --> 00:35:29.376 Presidents wanna I have a piece of legislation here that I will drop in 00:35:29.409 --> 00:35:36.117 the hopper. Yes. The big brothers don't play that game 00:35:36.150 --> 00:35:42.657 in Sun Devil Stadium. You got your choice and the legislation will take 00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:48.597 the stadium away from a shoe and create a separate stadium entity to 00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:51.407 manage it. 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:57.836 The game happened. That was the first breakthrough of a pro team playing 00:35:57.869 --> 00:36:00.796 in Sun Devil Stadium 00:36:00.829 --> 00:36:05.936 then we had the outlaws and we had other teams. We had philadelphia coming 00:36:05.969 --> 00:36:13.597 out here. There was just a lot of agitation to play in Sun Devil Stadium 00:36:13.630 --> 00:36:19.486 and I was the vice president over the stadium at that time. And I knew 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:27.519 that the agitation was continuing and I got a call from Hurt who was a 00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:33.236 columnist for the Arizona Republic and he said the cardinals were 00:36:33.269 --> 00:36:36.296 interested in coming. 00:36:36.329 --> 00:36:40.296 And so I said, well we'll open up discussions 00:36:40.329 --> 00:36:47.307 and a S. U. Was gun shy because we had had philadelphia out here and if 00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:51.436 you remember the atmosphere philadelphia owner was going to come, his 00:36:51.469 --> 00:36:55.736 daughter was out here to sign the agreement and the police surrounded his 00:36:55.769 --> 00:37:00.407 place and he couldn't get out. And and he didn't, the people in 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.296 philadelphia prevailed and he and the team didn't come. And so everybody 00:37:05.329 --> 00:37:10.566 thought that the cardinals were using us. But I opened up discussions with 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.997 the cardinals and to make a long story short, I kind of believe that they 00:37:16.030 --> 00:37:22.497 were going to come and I was put by Russ nelson as the as kind of the 00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:27.387 bizarre over all of these negotiations. And so we kept edging forward, 00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:32.836 edging forward and we finally reached an agreement and then bidwell said, 00:37:32.869 --> 00:37:35.997 I've got to have that signed by tomorrow because I'm going back to ST 00:37:36.030 --> 00:37:41.327 louis and I'm going to need that because I'm going to the NFL to make an 00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:45.447 announcement on whether the team is going to come here or not. But he says 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:52.747 I got to have that letter signed and the rust was gone. And so I wandered 00:37:52.780 --> 00:37:59.057 around campus and thought, well, what do we do? And finally, I came back 00:37:59.090 --> 00:38:04.316 with the legal counsel telling me not to sign that letter that I didn't 00:38:04.349 --> 00:38:07.526 have any authority to sign that letter. And I said, yeah, I got authority 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.666 to sign that letter because I'm over the stadium and I signed contracts 00:38:10.699 --> 00:38:18.699 all the time. And so I signed the letter and I Senate with bidwell Russ 00:38:18.750 --> 00:38:25.407 nelson was out of town and Russ nelson came back. This was on a thursday. 00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:30.157 I signed the letter, bidwell took it on friday on saturday. I got a phone 00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:36.146 call at home and Russ nelson wanted to see me at his home. The one and 00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:41.367 only time that I got called on a weekend to go see him. When I got there, 00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:46.807 I could I could see that the atmosphere had been poisoned a little bit 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:52.526 because the legal counsel was there. All right. And the conversation went. 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:58.396 Something like this, Russ was pretty, pretty grim about it all. He said, 00:38:58.429 --> 00:39:02.907 I understand that you have sent a letter saying that the cardinals could 00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:09.407 play in sun Devil stadium. And I said, yes, I've done that. And he says, 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:14.787 can you get the letter back? And I said no, the letter is already gone. 00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:19.197 And he says, what if I tell you to get the letter back? 00:39:19.230 --> 00:39:24.367 And I says, well Russ, you can do this, you can fire me and then you can 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:29.227 tell Bruce to get the letter back. But before you do that, let me tell you 00:39:29.260 --> 00:39:32.586 why. I signed that letter. 00:39:32.619 --> 00:39:38.106 And I went on to explain to him that this is a time when I knew that I had 00:39:38.139 --> 00:39:44.876 to bite the bullet because he couldn't. I said there's no way you could do 00:39:44.909 --> 00:39:52.909 that without getting border regions approval. But I can and I'm expendable. 00:39:53.730 --> 00:39:59.186 And if it doesn't work out, you can fire me. But I says, the thing you 00:39:59.219 --> 00:40:05.037 don't want to do is to get yourself mixed up in the middle of this because 00:40:05.070 --> 00:40:09.997 there there's no way that you could have sent that letter and if bidwell 00:40:10.030 --> 00:40:14.597 had gone back and said, I couldn't get anything from a issue I wanted to 00:40:14.630 --> 00:40:19.606 come, but they wouldn't cooperate. You might not have survived that either. 00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:24.217 So either way it was a catch 22 for you. And I said sometimes vice 00:40:24.250 --> 00:40:31.836 presidents are there to be expendable and so I did that now you can fire 00:40:31.869 --> 00:40:37.436 me if you want to and to his credit, he didn't fire me. We went through a 00:40:37.469 --> 00:40:45.469 lot of ups and downs, but we did get him in Sun Devil Stadium. We got some 00:40:45.550 --> 00:40:50.097 new sky boxes built the city of phoenix wanted to come and play in our 00:40:50.130 --> 00:40:53.416 stadium and the downtown people and then leave us without anything. And I 00:40:53.449 --> 00:40:57.557 said it's not gonna happen. So they build us some skyboxes, they improved 00:40:57.590 --> 00:41:04.066 the stadium and they played here from, this is 87 they'll probably be here 00:41:04.099 --> 00:41:12.099 for 20 years. So all in all, not too bad. Maybe they'll win someday. Mhm. 00:41:13.510 --> 00:41:21.146 They played sports activities. Oh, pain, pain, lots of pain and continues 00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:24.477 to be pain, 00:41:24.510 --> 00:41:32.510 Lots of pain. Were you involved with kush! I became kush! I took over as 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:39.927 director of community relations under kush! No. And kush was a coach in 00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:47.960 july and he was fired in october disaster. Okay. Disaster. I took over as 00:41:51.809 --> 00:41:55.586 assistant vice president. You know, I moved up the ladder a little bit. No 00:41:55.619 --> 00:42:00.106 , as vice president, I think I took over as vice president when Winehouse 00:42:00.139 --> 00:42:06.467 was fired. That was another unmitigated disaster. 00:42:06.500 --> 00:42:11.046 But those stories are too long probably for you to tell. There's there are 00:42:11.079 --> 00:42:14.276 stories there though. 00:42:14.309 --> 00:42:19.907 We're actually we're out okay. We have to talk about the story. I think 00:42:19.940 --> 00:42:27.867 you're much too young to be retiring. 00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:34.026 We rented a u haul truck without air conditioning and we came down to got 00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:37.657 as far as Holbrook and they recommended we'll just, you know, turn south 00:42:37.690 --> 00:42:43.296 and cut across and come on down through pacing And so we did. And as we 00:42:43.329 --> 00:42:47.606 came down the hill it kept getting hotter and hotter and hotter. And my 00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:52.436 wife looked over at me and she said, where are you taking me? I appreciate 00:42:52.469 --> 00:42:55.287 the opportunity to have done this. I think it's a great project and I hope 00:42:55.320 --> 00:43:01.539 that the video history project and help preserve some of ourhistory