This is Monday morning 1965, February 22nd.
We at the old Risdale mortuary where we have a number of ministers
gathered, and they are deciding and we're going to discuss with them this
morning the feasibility of establishing the Universal Memorial Center. We
have been
Entertained now by some ministers, the president of the ministerial
alliance is Reverend Harrison of the CME Church. All the ministers about
here now. The time is approximately 11:40.
We have Bishop Taylor here who is a man 19 years old, Mother Taylor,
otherwise Jones. They all here to hear what we have to say. Mr. Thomson
Cole will be conducting the program. Then we have a welcome address, so we
hope that things will go on. We should be very critical, entertain you
here today, and, and I hope during the rest of. But you will pray for us.
Right.
The presence of Bishop Taylor Reverend Russ.
Well. And and we certainly hope to come along today. So we are happy to
have the visitors with us. I heard on yesterday Reverend Grant, who was
visiting my church, and by the way, he is the father of one of our great
entertainers, Errol Grant, a great organist, and uh I know you've heard of
him. And uh he's a very fine speaker, his father, and we certainly are
happy to have him visiting with us.
At this time, I would like to ask the ladies in the rear to pass you a
calendar. We have some calendars that uh we Spent 60 cents per calendar to
, to uh make up these calendars. Quite expensive, but we did it for a
purpose.
And when you get these calendars, we will outline this purpose to you.
I think it was very nice of Reverend Dunbar to allow us today to entertain
you instead of himself, and we certainly are happy that uh you could find
it available to all of you to come.
We have been quite interested in the work of the ministerial Alliance for
some years and I remember on last year, or maybe just a little better than
a year ago, I had an opportunity to meet with you on a couple of occasions
myself and I think the work that you men are doing in our city is very
fine and we want to commend you for that work.
That
Yes.
OK.
Yeah
OK. On last year we put out In our various enterprises, 3 different
calendars. We had one for the mortuary, one for the life insurance company
, and this particular calendar you see here was done in a different manner
and we sent these to schools and business places and also to churches. But
this year, we only have this one calendar and we find that this calendar
has a significant role for all Negroes. Now today, many places across the
nation are closed because we are celebrating uh our first president's
birthday, George Washington. But many times, uh, our boys and girls in
school and perhaps you have gone to school, you know that you have never
celebrated the birthday of a great negro.
And for this reason, uh, we find it necessary. To at least give our people
a chance to know something about Negro history. Now, this calendar that
you are looking at here, will tell the story in part of the many great
Negroes who have lived and who are still living and who have contributed
greatly to our society. You just might glance through this calendar with
me. In January we see here the picture of Whitney M. Young, who is
President Urban League director, Mr. Roy Wilkins, who is the director of
the NAACP. We noticed here a young man named Charles Young who rode
horseback from Ohio to Washington DC to prove that he was fit enough to
enter the US Armed Services. He died in Liberia.
We move over to February and we see great men such as Frederick Douglass,
who was one of the first abolitionists, and by the way, who was a Negro.
We see here a picture of a young man named Reverend Lockridge, of whom
many of you know. Uh, this man is a very dynamic young minister in San
Diego, California at this time. We can glance through here and we see.
Some of our other great men in the country, we see Hobson R Reynolds, who
is Grant exalted ruler of the Elks.
Moving on through here to April to Doctor Ralph Bunch, James Farmer. Many
of these names you have heard of. Moving through May we see Doctor William
H. Hale, who is president of Langston University, and many of you had the
opportunity to meet him when he was in our city. We see Mr. Sammy Davis
Junior who has contributed much to the civil rights movement through
contributions and through other acts that he has been able to do. We move
on and We see in June, Mrs. Marian Anderson, who has been
Said to be one of the greatest voices to ever live, this lady has
performed before kings and queens, and she's a member of our race, and I
think these great people that we will see throughout this calendar, we can
be proud of, for they are all Negro. Now, there are some whites in the
calendar, however, men like John F. Kennedy, who has contributed greatly
to the Negro cause, President Johnson and a few others, but Most of these
people on this calendar are Negroes, and we want you to take these
calendars into your homes, and we want you to have them in your churches,
and we want your boys and girls, your men and women, to see the great
negroes who have lived and died for this country.
Now let us move up to the top of the calendar on the front and you will
see a picture of the Universal Memorial Center.
The Universal Memorial Center.
Now, this universal memorial Center will probably be the finest that this
state of the Southwest has ever known. The Universal Memorial Center,
formerly the Ragsdale Mortuary. The most modern and complete funeral home
and mortuary in Arizona.
Let's look at the story in brotherhood.
William Ragsdale established a home undertaking company in Muskogee,
Indian Territory, now Oklahoma in 1889.
His five sons, William, Hartwell, Louis, Howard, and Theodore R Ragsdale
followed in their father's footsteps and were all licensed as embalmers
and funeral directors. In 1917, the name was changed to the Ragsdale and
Son's Funeral Home, and new motorized equipment was was put into operation.
In 1948, the third generation, Hartwell W. Ragsdale, 2nd and Lincoln J R
Ragsdale, opened the Ragsdale Mortuary in Phoenix, Arizona. Today in 1965
, we are attempting to meet the challenge of the hour, brotherhood and
integration. In line with the thinking of the NAACP, the Urban League, and
the great leaders for brotherhood like Dr. Martin Luther King. We believe
that now is the time for brotherhood. All God's children working together
, black men and white men serving each other and in line with the 1964
Civil Rights Act on non-discrimination, we have integrated our complete
operation. We now have black and white working side by side, serving
Catholic and Protestant, Gentile and Jew. The Ragsdale Mortuary has
integrated and presents to this community the new universal Memorial
Center dedicated to the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.
Freedom and equality have been a struggle for the Negro. Courageous white
and black men have risked their careers and their lives to advance the
cause of freedom and brotherhood. To these men and women of action, we
dedicate this unusual calendar. We extend appreciation to Hartwell W.
Ragsdale the 2nd of Anderson Ragsdale Mortuary in San Diego, California,
who did the research and the production for this calendar. At this time, I
would like to present to you Mrs. Eleanor Ragsdale, the director of the R
Ragsdale Mortuary, and she will come to you and welcome you today, Mrs.
Ragsdale.
Very much, you know, I can't see without my glasses, and today I went and
wrote one of the lids. So if I wink in this left eye, it's not because I'm
fresh, it's because I'm trying to see that.
Yeah. Yeah
It really does warm my heart to have all of you here today. And we want to
thank first your President, Reverend Harrison for accepting the invitation
and we want to thank Reverend Dunbar for relinquishing his right to come
over today to be with us because we need you here today for a very special
reason.
We want to make a small contribution to your treasury for some of the
wonderful work that we know that you do in this community. We know that
you get many calls from all different areas of the city when families are
in need and when perhaps ministers are in need or the widows of ministers
are in need and if Reverend Harrison would step to the front, I would like
to present this check with our love. And may God add a blessing to what
we're contributing for your treasury to carry on the good work of your
organization.
In the amount of $25.
You know, I believe that a man or a woman.
is only what he believes.
If you don't believe enough in something to stand up for it and say, yes,
I believe in this regardless of who else does. We're not really much of a
person. And it was because of your belief in what God said to your heart
that you chose the straight and narrow road to be a minister. And I'm sure
that this was not an easy decision to make. And I believe today and have
all my life since I was a little girl running around a cemetery in
Colindale, Pennsylvania. Maybe you don't know it, but I was born in a
cemetery.
It was sort of a farm life I'd say because Dad had a garden. It was during
the early depression, you know, and if you didn't have a garden, you
sometimes didn't have much on the table to eat. And so we had our own
little garden and we rode those old workhorses that took the lawn devices
out to the graves. We rode them around and had a mighty good time. And I
walked through that cemetery to school in the morning, home at noon to
lunch and back again and back home again in the evening. And so I passed
many a tombstone and saw many a funeral procession come and go. And I
learned to talk to God early in life and I didn't have a fear of the dead
because I was associated too closely and I saw too much beauty in that
cemetery because thank God my childhood was happy and when I think back
there where my father now lays and many friends who I knew as a child, I
associate death with something beautiful and even though we don't
understand all that death is, certainly there should be something
beautiful about it. And I believe That there is a destiny that makes us
brothers. That none goes his way alone. That all that we send into the
lives of others comes back into our own.
And I have a special feeling. And a belief about ministers and about
ministers' wives.
I believe that you were born with something special. That God gave you a
certain gift.
A gift of love in your heart. A gift to feel God's message when he sent it.
A feeling of urgency that each day is the day that you must work for
God's good on earth. That you must help people to see the good and the bad
and the evil and the beautiful in life, and that you must help them make
decisions for making their life happier.
And because you walk close with God and therefore talk with him, I respect
you and love you. And sometimes we don't tell people about this love. It
doesn't have much to do with a physical relationship as he does with an
emotional feeling inside. Because a person stands for the right and a
person helps to guide others for the right.
And because we love you and respect you and your opinions. We asked you to
come here today to think with us and to help us. Because life is surely
full of decisions, and they're not always easy. There's not always a
decision to make whether I should kill a man or not kill him, whether I
should tell the truth or tell a lie. Whether I should steal or not steal.
These decisions might sometimes be easy because they're definite here or
here. But all the decisions that are not that clear.
Who should I marry? Who should I take as a wife? That's not always clear.
Whether I should become a minister or whether I should take that job where
I can make a little more money, it's not so clear.
Whether I should go out and take my bucket down in Phoenix, Arizona, where
you don't have a lot of rich people, but where people need me so much, or
whether I should go on to the sunny shores and some other town where
people have money and give more of their financial means.
That isn't always easy.
And my friends, whether I should have caught that train and come to
Phoenix, Arizona was not easy. Whether I should marry Lincoln Ragsdale or
that other fellow back in Pennsylvania who wanted to make me his wife, I
wasn't so easy.
But God didn't promise life easy.
He sometimes tries you,
just like in the Bible. Oh, the men who've been tried, the women who've
been tried. And these times are no different than those times. People are
the same, the same stuff we're made of, they were made of them. The same
decisions that are hard to make are here now as then.
And oh God tries us. And he has tried us, dear friends. We have prayed
literally on our knees and off about this memorial center. These are
changing times and they make new demands, and are we equal to the task is
the question.
We asked you here today to help us make that decision. Won't you think
with us? Won't you pray with us? The decision isn't easy. But we love you.
And we respect your opinion, and we ask you to help us to look up, not
down, to look forward, not back, to look out, not in, and lend us a hand.
Yeah.
I. Thank you, Mrs. Ragsdale.
Gentlemen, ladies.
We have met here today on a threshold of a new era.
For many years now, we have been taling. Many of us have been marching, we
have been fighting, we have been struggling, and what have we been
struggling for? We have been struggling for integration. We have said that
we want to integrate.
Men like George Brooks have been threatened. He was preparing for a march
downtown and he got a phone call. They say, don't do it, we're gonna shoot
whoever's in the front line. You see. Many of us have gotten threatened
calls. Many of you have been confronted with this situation. People have
told you, well, you don't need to integrate. Uh, stay in your place or
just wait a little while, you see. Maybe your grandchildren or your great
grandchildren, they will enjoy this. And you ask them, well, what about me
? So we are here today. And we're on a new threshold of a new era. We are
testing whether this nation or any nation. can live in segregation.
But since we have asked for integration, we have something that we must do.
We must be integrationists ourselves. You see, for many years we've
talked about integration, but we have not been integrationists ourselves.
We have talked about something that we really don't want. We have talked
about something that we want the white man to give up, you see. But uh
that was a survey made once and And we find that Negroes segregate as much
as anyone else.
So we have been marching here. Those of us who work for the Valley Life
Insurance Company and the Ragsdale Mortuary have participated in many
marches and many civil rights movements. We have asked ourselves. Why
don't we integrate?
So we began integrating. We began first by integrating our life insurance
company. We hired a white lady in our office. We hired a white man to sell
insurance for us. But you see, we can't go around talking about something
that we don't do ourselves. See, many times we have been hypocrites. About
this integration matter, you see, and we discriminate more than some of
our white brethren. So we have to be careful. See, Mr. Ragsdale walking
downtown telling the mayor, you, you people are segregating against our
people, and he looks at him and say, well, do you have any white people
working for you? That's a very real question, isn't it? It's a very real
question. So we have to be careful and we have to be cognizant of the fact
that if we are to integrate. We must begin at home, you see. We must
integrate our minds, we must integrate our hearts, for if we don't do this
, we cannot integrate any place else, for there will always be that little
segregation in the back of our minds and our hearts.
So we are attempting Today we are attempting to do something that has
never been done before in this state by Negroes.
Now it is true. It is true that The whites for many years have used our
money to grow rich, to grow fat, you see, and to grow powerful. And it is
true that if any of you would die, a white mortuary will certainly bury
you. But we are attempting to do something that's even greater.
We are attempting to integrate a mortuary, something that has never been
done before. For you see, when we deal with uh the last remains, uh, we
get a little personal. We get a little more personal than perhaps uh even
a doctor, you see, for this is the last thing that a family can do for
their loved ones. So this is something that uh is more personal than
perhaps anything else that we can do. But we are attempting to do this.
Now we have called you here today. To ask for your prayers and your
guidance, for certainly you are leaders in your community and you know.
Whether or not we can do this. We have called you here today because we
want your advice on this matter. Now, this universal memorial center that
you have seen and you see here before me will be an integrated mortuary.
And integrated. Now you, you hear what I say? I didn't say segregated. I
said integrated. Now let's have some amens. See now this because we, we
see we're coming home now. See, we are going to the white man saying you
are not integrating, we're coming here and saying we are not integrating
and the shoes on the other foot. So. We are integrated. We're integrated.
Now, are you with us? Are you with us? Do you think it's a good idea?
Now, do you know what you're saying? You say amen, you say it's a good
idea. You know what you're talking about?
I see Reverend M back there. He's looking awful hard there, huh? You for
Reverend? It's a good idea? All right.
But this is something, and I want to reiterate. This is something very
personal. This is something that has never been attempted before. This is
something that has never been done before. Now, in our community, in your
churches, you see, we have to be careful that our congregations don't
start criticizing integration.
You see, last night I talked over to uh Reverend Miller's church, and I, I
talked about people going away from God. You see, people are now
substituting a God-centered universe for a man-centered universe. And I
said that men don't say, well, goodbye God, we're gonna leave you now.
They don't, they don't say this, you see, they don't say this with their
lips, but it's by their actions that they deny God, you see. So we have to
be careful that by our congregation and our community's action, that they
do not deny integration, you see. Now they might not say we are not for
integration. They won't come out and say we are not for integration, you
see. They won't say, uh, Reverend, that's a bad thing. But by their
actions, their very acts, they will deny integration, something that they
have said they wanted for low these many years. So this is what. We have
to be careful about it. We have to tell our congregations that integration
is a good thing, and if, if it's to work, it must work throughout our
entire lives, you see. It can't work, say on some employer's job. That's
not integration, you see. That's not integration when we Negroes are able
to work at a white man's company. That's not integration. It's not
integration when negroes are able to eat at a white man's lunch counter.
You see, this is not integration. You see, integration is much greater
than the new marching that we have done, uh, integrating lunch counters
and integrating different places of employment. So the word integration is
very big, and it means that we have to integrate throughout our lives,
throughout the society that we live in. We have found that The economy of
Arizona is not the greatest economy in the world. Mrs. Ragdale mentioned
that you men have come here to Arizona and you didn't come here for
monetary gains, I'm sure. For if you were looking for monetary gains, you
would have gone to greener pastures. For you know and I know that your
congregations don't pay you a lot of money. In fact, they don't give a lot
of money. So you didn't come here just for monetary gains, you see, Mr.
Ringsdale could have chosen a much better place than Phoenix to open a
mortuary. He could have gone to Los Angeles, California, where there are
nearly a million Negroes, you see, to draw from. If he had wanted to make
large sums of money in the mortuary business, you see, but there was a
need for it here, you see. So today there is a need. There is a need for
integration throughout our lives, and we are trying to attempt. To
integrate a mortuary. Something that has never been done before. And I
cannot say this too many times for in your minds, in your minds, you have
to get the picture, you see. If you were to talk about integration. Then
we must begin, you see. We must begin. John F. Kennedy said, said, let us
begin. So we must begin to integrate. And we call you here today. To
reveal this what we have kept the secret for some time to you first. For
you are the leaders of the community. And we ask for your prayers in this
effort. At this time, I would like to bring to you. Present to you the man
who Has gotten this brainstorm, a man who has Perhaps staked his life on
an idea. On an idea. A man who has risked the welfare of his family on an
idea, on an, you see, when you deal with this integration thing, and the
white man knows this, when you deal in this integration thing, you, you
risk something, you see, you risk something. Our white brothers in the
South, they, they don't care about you going into that restaurants, giving
them your money to eat their food. This is not what they're worried about.
They're worried that the white people might not trade with them and they
will lose all, you see. So in integration you risk something. Well, here's
a man who is risking something. And we, we want you to understand this,
for this is a great effort, this is a great attempt to do something even
greater than than has been done in the past. Well, this has never been
done before. So at this time, let us welcome Lincoln Ras down.
Thank you, Mr. Coleman.
Reverend Harrison, until you minister is here.
I want to welcome you this morning and I promise you a nice lunch in just
a few minutes. We're gonna go to another place.
But I'm very concerned today because of several reasons. You know, we
always get up hollering and I do this. If I take one step, God will take
two, and I'll holler and say, if you got, if I got the faith, I know you
got the power. But when it comes right down to Lincoln Risdale.
To say what I have a face to walk the water, the face to walk the water, I
wonder sometimes if I can do it.
I am asking myself and asking you this morning, and you're gonna have to
decide this morning with me because I'm willing today to lose $8000 rather
than to lose everything I have. I
I had something been burning in my heart for a number of years and saying
that there's a destiny, that's something that we're here for. Certain I
could leave Phoenix. God in heaven knows this. I told Reverend Kenrick the
other day. I have an opportunity to go some other place.
But am I running away from something or? I'm not called to leave. I'm
called to stay here. Like Reverend Kendricks was called to finish his
church before he would leave. He had an opportunity to leave several years
ago, but to leave then would have let those of us in the hole or in the
basement down.
I'm concerned, I'm confused. Let me tell you what the problem is. Let's
define this problem. We are saying here we have a Negro mortuary.
We are saying now that we are a mortuary operated by colored folks. That's
a difference. You see a difference in it. Most of the time when we
integrate something, we say we don't go to the white man's place and we're
gonna bring the white man to the black man's place. This is different than
it, you see this is a whole new concept. Usually we think of ourselves as
not good enough.
We have been told some way we black and we ain't good as white folks and
our cafe is not good as the white man's cafe. And when I take you down to
eat, I must go to a white place cause we integrated.
That's right. You see, that's what I'm thinking about. It's the question
here. This is a big thing. You are in on a thing that could determine many
things. Now I'm willing, if you tell me to.
To lay my chest back. To be safe.
Let me explain to you what we're talking about.
I have made a tended arrangement to borrow some money.
And in the process of borrowing this money, there's no economic reason
that we need a nice march word than this one for colored people.
Yeah, yeah.
There's no reason for me to go and do that billing you see on the front of
the counter we gave you if it's just for us.
Let me point out to you some things that happened to you. There's not one
successful Negro motel or hotel in the United States today except those
that have made the big stent.
Look in Phoenix, what hotel do you have in this town? The Rice Hotel 20
years ago was a big place when I first came here. Jordan lived there. Duke
Ellington would come to town and stay there. Isn't this true? But what has
happened in 20 years?
Somewhere along the line, we didn't take the big step.
Last week Nat King Cole died, didn't he? We buried him, white man Sam
Cooke, the great singer. He died two weeks ago. His fountain resting place
was in the White House.
Usually a white place integrates and then we come running to them.
A more in the next 5 to 10 years will say I'm integrating and I'll put a
coloring embalmer down here and I want all you colored folks to come on
down because we white folks gonna let you colored folk in. Yeah, yeah. And
I'm certain. We're gonna lose some business in Los Angeles. McKinley said
, Well, you colored folk are not too bad, and I'm gonna integrate the
mortuary on down, and he had last year told me he buried 350 colored folks.
A white march that.
More folk and I burn in 3 years.
And the question comes back again, a Negro marchword, if he says I'm gonna
bury white folk, what happened? It's never been tried. Now I have a, we, I
am considered a colored funeral. Mary Cober County right for that I have
right here. It says that I can only bear colored folk
says where each lake where ransom march where are colored places, and they
shall handle all colored people.
They're not qualified to handle white folks. We do not know what we're
doing. I have a lady here from the state of Arizona, the state hospitals
on 24th and Van Dillen from the Aina State Hospital, here it is here. And
we are colored folks, and we must only handle colored people
and when I object to this on the 5th day of February, objected to it. All
white march wes right down my neck, ***, what you trying to do.
adrenaline.
And remember this, when you do this and you're pioneering in this new
thinking. We're not talking about integration going to the white man's
mortuary. We're not picking in AL more. We're not picketing Murphy Whitney.
We're not picket in Mercer mortuary to go to his place, are we? We're
saying to them we are opening a mortuary here for all people,
and what would hurt me worse than in the world would be my ministers to
stab me in the back. When I open up this thing, yeah.
And this is why I'm here today with you.
I'm willing to lay my neck on the coming block for you. Just say to them,
it has to start somewhere.
You see, it's been for years that Negroes have gone to the white churches
and they get down to pray their way in. You see them all on the side, but
then nobody wants to come to your church.
Don't tell me. Some of you can preach better than any white man. I was in
Tem the other day and he said, brother Harrison preached out there. He
said, he, we sure like to have you for pastor. White men call me that.
Reverend Harrison told me that. He preached up there two weeks ago,
Sunday, didn't you? Right.
Honey, you gotta think about these things. What to do. Because what
happens is this.
Once you attack these people, see, Maryorpo County cannot legally send
this thing up.
See, a white man gets killed right in front of my place here, they will
let me pick him up. County says, oh no, I can't pick him up if he's killed
in the family.
But if, uh, but if a white man dies, they have white mortuary of the
corner is what they call them that come get the people. Why should I not?
If it's fact, if it's good enough for you, it should be good enough for
people. That's right,
right. I have And it's long we, we, we talked about this ain't gonna be
good.
We did what we call a feasibility study. The brow the bank you understand
I wouldn't be part of like that. Oh, so it can't be a success, so nobody
wants to use a code involved.
Man may be right. I don't know if he's wrong. You see, because I believe
in the fatherhood, God, the brotherhood of man does not mean that I'm
gonna be successful. And the right go in in the end will bring in. I could
be dead and buried. Yeah. See, I don't want you to ride run me out of town.
I know a white man gonna fight. I know if a white march around town gonna
be on my neck.
I know this, but I want you not to fight me. I didn't say support me, get
out and do nothing for me. Don't fight me. It
And have give me the strength that I can carry on and all I ask of you.
These are good times. These are things that I know that you don't
understand because I don't understand. And who do I go to for advice? I
call my father and mother. I said, Daddy, she said, ***, I don't
understand what you're doing. Like a lot man.
My brother said in California said Lincoln don't do it. It's dangerous
cause the Negroes will kill you first. You got a white man down there with
you. I get out of town, you got a white man down there, honey. I ain't
gonna use him. OK
This is murder.
I need to support this morning. If you don't want it, tell me. If you say
that I'm doing the wrong thing, you see, the whole question of this, I
know it's gonna.
I know it has to come. Maybe not in my days. The timing is the only
question I have in my mind today. Is my timing good? They told me that I
could be successful if I moved away from the colored folks and moved
across the other side of town, maybe and it's gonna have to do with the
colored people, but I'm running away from my people, I'm trying to hide.
I'm black. My brother, my, my, my dad is a colored man
trying to hide from the fact that I'm a Negro. I believe that there are
all white folks are not bad, you. There's some good white folks holding
the door and say, now here we have integrated. Will you come and use us if
we are here.
We plan to build, we have to get something new.
This new march of where it will be a new chapel. We're gonna close that
door off completely. Do all this over, put doors here, put two locks next
door and park. Completely tear down the whole back section here and do
this mortuary as my. And it's fine
as a.
There's no way in the world can you pay for it.
Very difficult but you don't have. You see, I know that I'm only gonna
bury just about half of the couple of people here. Some folks wouldn't use
it. I ain't gonna look too.
My hair ain't not right. A wife is not the kind of woman they like. I'm
gonna use somebody else. I don't like that. That *** ain't no good nohow.
There's no way in the world to satisfy everybody. If I give a man $5 for
Christmas he they should give me $15.
Everybody can be with me. I know this.
No.
We're trying to build something here that move by, you can come in and
show them. Now this is a mortuary here in Phoenix that that we have among
our people that we offer to all the people you can get towel. Catholics
and Protestants, white and black, completely integrated. See, I don't want
to have a white man to come to a funeral with me in your church and you
and you refuse to preach a funeral. what I'm talking about today. I
integrate, I got to have a white man on staff with me. I can't go out no
tune out of your church and a white man coming in there with me, the folks
, he says, honey, we ain't gonna have no fun. I got white people come down.
You follow me? That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, I know
I'm gonna go to some places and some white churches and they gonna say,
well, I'm not gonna let you as a fan. I don't want him in here. I know
that I'm gonna have bodies in this mortuary gonna come move out.
I know that if I get to count him up mistakes that we have a body and some
white folks were gonna call her on the phone and say you know that
universal center is a *** place. The mother down there with those *** that
like me and you see they call us that, right? That's an inflammatory word
, see to make hate grow. I know they gonna do this. Now I don't. Are you
with me?
The bank wants to know what your people want to do.
Isn't what they did.
And he just put the stick on. There's a bad mouth phone.
Yeah, it's a bad mouth. I told you you shouldn't be doing that in the
first place.
Cause you know we ain't ready yet. Now we ain't gonna say that
the white man gonna say words where I am.
The title. I had one thing.
The food this long period, and it means that we're gonna have to borrow
$100,000 to do it. And as I said before, there's no reason to do it for
colored folks. Because statistics prove that colored folks don't want
things too.
Hey And the white man told me that at the bank. The first time the bank
told me that negroes don't want things too nice. They *** too nice, you're
gonna lose all of your business.
Well they gonna say it costs too much, you know how we talk.
They said that Kim's church is too nice. I ain't going that cause you got
to pay those bills and to give them all my money to him. You know what I'm
talking about.
This is the question. I do not know the answer,
but I need you today to help me to do this. I need you to help me with
this. Now we're building this mortuary a new idea. We have a what we call
the universal. I'm changing the name. I change the name? Let's be honest
with you.
But they right, Yao Ming called that.
I didn't have books too much.
That's right, I might say. I would never rus too much. It ain't CC thing.
Even some of my old people say, Well, I don't know what your vote is.
What y'all doing, you know, Bro, you an old.
What y'all doing now? What y'all doing? What's your motive? What the the
the tactics are, you're good people, but you're doing wrong, you shouldn't
march on those white folks. No, now I.
I said now he said is that all with you. Right, don't be black.
He's the name of the universal Memorial, so it doesn't, uh, you have to
explain a lot of things
you have. Name of Gutenberg, he might change his name to Harris.
Harrison, it's a he's the American team. Why bring more hate on you? You
follow it, so I'm changing the name to universal Memorial Center. You know
what it is. I got farming ragdolls on here, but next year it won't have no
ragdot in no way
cause your own people present you sometimes and your names are too big.
They don't want your me ain't big on there. I don't like that right I.
But I can get your name, you don't get the hate from them this is the
universe.
Now we're building in this new watching where we turn on the garage and
back, these next two lots over next door. If you say so, we're gonna do
this next week. I'm ready to go, but I can turn back. That's how the
foundation, and I'm gonna turn back if you want another experience. I'd
rather lose $8000 and go on and do something else and lose everything I
owe because I'm paying my house, my wife, my 4 children, $100,000
behind it.
On the back of it, we're building what we call the Universal Memorial
Center, but have 3 apartments. Motel parts that are free. When people come
here at your funeral, they can say they are free of charge.
we have in the rooms where the bodies will be laid off.
Where the garden outside where the glass, whole walls in glass and you can
look in there and you have a garden of Gethsemane. We get some plants from
Africa brought in here. See, I'm proud of my black folks. I'm not ashamed
of my. Yeah. I run from it. I believe if I'm good enough for you, I'm good
enough for those white folks.
That's what I need.
It's gonna be, we're gonna integrate this thing in reverse. And the white
folks come to the black folk.
Let's come to us black folks a little bit here. Let's keep this thing in
reverse. You talking about integration is us going and in run out of
Western hole and give all our money down here. I bring it down here.
yeah, yes.
If you have any questions I can answer the question, but I'm trying to
properly. Please ask me.
Coleman time. Would you come forward, please, and I, I, I'm, I'm going to
the bank. And my last question, And the man had a legitimate question.
The banker wants to know
Do we, you leaders approve of this in principle?
You see, a lot of people are hollering the fatherhood of God and
brotherhood of man, but it doesn't mean me.
We believe that we should integrate, but it doesn't mean I should
integrate.
They don't really mean all of these things that you and I have talked
about so long.
And actually, the names are va look at us. Listen, what we're doing, are
we completely segregated ourselves? No. Don't we keep ourselves and say
this is ours. You use this turn. It is I mean nobody but you.
Do you really want, do you believe in this in principle? I don't say do
you believe in me necessarily, but do you believe in the principle that
you're talking about.
If so, I'd like to ask your preparation, and I have all this information
and. And whatever you decide, and I'd like to have some comments from some
of you and. And help me to make this decision, please if I can answer any
questions, I'd be happy to. Yes this going to be a company. Uh, you just
one hour. Just want us to say whether we are with you or with it or not or
it's gonna be a stock company you're gonna be selling stock in. Thank you
very much, Reverend. You asked a good question. It is a stock
I'm not asking you to buy anything.
You see, the reason that we decide not to make it public stock is to read.
Because the first thing that people will say they, they're trying to make
someone, you see, we don't understand stop.
Be honest, and we don't understand. Stop being cows and horses for both of
us.
And you say you're selling some stock, to most of us, most negroes, only
stock that we ever know about is a stock that's full of trickery and jell
because the wife ain't got good stock and the down at the bank never come
to your house. If that guy selling some stock and some little corporation
that goes away and going bankrupt, he comes under you. So we have decided
to stay away from the stock issue. Unless the Negro walks in and comes in
and asks for us, then we'll do it. We're not trying to sell no stock.
They've got the financing lined up. We don't want you to sign up to buy
nothing.
Because it was fighting away, you see, if I said this, you gotta cook this
, you say, I knew there was a trick
in get some of your money. I know what they want. So we're trying to make
it as simple as possible. All we want from you is two things is your
prayers. I mean some prayers. First, let's go to Jesus with this thing. I
paying on it. Your prayers that we are doing the right thing at the right
time.
You see, the right thing done. At the wrong time is wrong.
I want to be sure we're doing the right thing at the right time. Need your
prayers, get you. That's all you want. We don't want just to the point.
Keep in mind. You want some of this? Fine, well, we have for this. I ask
you to buy. Because all it would do is hurt us we think. Thank you. May I
ask you a question, sir? If anybody wants to answer questions, Mr. Brad
I'd like to ask you two questions. Number one, is there any legal basis by
which the state of Arizona or Maricopa County could prevent you Combining
of the body. uh You know to talk about. They cannot do it. Uh, we involved.
We bury *** 10 or 15 whites are here here. Maybe 10 white is white. I
mean *** was white. These are Mexicans and Indians, other people, but by
custom. And I have condoned this, and I just fought as much as anybody
else. Mr. Webber and I said for condone. We, we tell the white people, we
cut, we cut the face. We say so I'm looking now we color. We don't want
you white folks to have us colored by this. He's Mr. Webb.
We, we been doing what we call a handkerchief head negro. I ain't have one
We been woman.
But we cut it now and y'all send us all cut folks. Y'all have the white
folks.
I
don't. I go down there for right then I once with the he's white and I
call. I said I made a mistake.
the
And if I get a person down the boy, he'll boy Carl says, look, right, we
got a bar down here. We thought he was white, light skinned, but he's
gonna come get this negro.
I said, Yes, Mr. Moore, and I'm down there because it make some money to
me.
It will make you a.
Yeah
And said come to home. I said, here I am.
Because
This is what I've done and I it's legally. I'm asking a question legally
they can't do it, but I have allowed it to happen. I've been a
handkerchief. Here's Uncle Tom. Here's Uncle Tom here.
I'm Uncle Tom. Yes, right, man. I, I won't cut up for you, and I've done
it all my life. And it's time for me to do something now. If you want me
to, maybe I should be an Uncle Tom. Maybe you want me to be this. If you
want me to be colored, I'm willing to be colored. I'm willing to tell the
world that I am. I'm wrong,
that we put up both want this and I'm gonna do it. I'll do what you say do
this morning because we're gonna ask you to tell me what you want from me.
I'm pretty sure you have, but um, have you, I'd like to ask you, have you
, do you know by uh survey or do you have a reasonable, uh, uh, in a
reasonable indication that you constructed this uh structure you're
talking about that uh your patronage among. keep people with that. Yeah,
good reason to believe that. Let me answer that. That's a trick question.
And They have approximately 1200 people who die each year who are corners.
If I become and it's really want.
And and so the count. I will automatically get. 100 of those people.
Because then I'm getting old people. I, I would automatically get 25
people a year, you're about a year from the state hospital for. I don't
know they could talk about it. Where are they gonna be you tell me about
this?
And You know a retreat and will go far.
I have reason to believe that out of the 6000 people who died in this area
, that approximately 5% of them white people who don't care who buries it.
As long as you give them a good price and give them good service, they
don't care what color you are.
I have reason to believe that 5% now, 5% of 6000 would be 300, wouldn't it
?
That's more people than all people now in the whole state than he is. So
out of the 5%, if I wanna get a half of those.
I can make it
and the first year I made started out. My wife and I are prepared. Listen
to me, gentlemen, prepared to lose our home. I'm prepared to move down to
the places. I'm emotionally prepared for this.
I'm prepared to give away everything I own and just hold on to this for
two years. Why? I'm trying to prove something.
Sometimes a man goes along with that do something doesn't it. They're not
going too far, I don't know. But I might not have to go this far. If I
could continue to maintain the same negro benefit that we have. I can make
it a year before they can foreclose them. Take 6 months to foreclose them.
Then in the meantime, the county that should come to a head. the thing
should come to a head. I don't know why I stand there, but they gonna try
to freeze. Right. I hope I've answered the question
Mr. Reginal, I ask you this, I think I have the understand.
Yes, fine.
Um,
it is a prere went. Of the state what their laws of the state of Arizona
law and they tell a reply and also in Arizona.
OK And you know, in order to secure.
A contract from a veteran administration hospital.
But this
also prevent you bring this.
Thank you. The Veterans Hospital realizes this. went to them over a year
ago and talked to them about it and they canceled all that contract. So
what they do now if you die at the veterans Hospital, they say to the
people, here are the colored marks where the whites.
I feel the right hand doesn't.
Because they took away the contract. Now I don't qualify for any the uh
contract at the Waste.
Let me tell you why I don't talk back. I'm not good enough.
I mean, I mean, I'm not really I'm not at this stage. I got to do this
before I qualify. See they don't give it to the lowest then, the lowest
price, but you got to have some off.
I can bare man from the government say I can my lowest price would be $100
but I ain't got $100 for it.
They said Well A more saying 250 he was worth 250. I'm sending the money,
but I ain't got, I'm might dollars.
Cause see I don't have the same equipment here as they have they want.
What I mean by that it doesn't look as nice and the law says it must be
the lowest and best, best BSP, and the best doesn't mean it's the lowest
price. William Ste said you got to get a lawyer.
And they said, well, right now I'm sorry, your, your facilities are not
quite equal to the white folks.
And the man said your streets not paved out here.
Yeah.
And uh tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock before the vote on the city council
I came to speak.
They don't want to come to a place I speak my face.
This is one, and they cost $7000 to pay that street one block.
This is what I got a problem. I got a problem here. I'm trying to do some
things that I might quite customary.
Have I asked you a question, sir?
Not Mr. Coleman no you since that time. Fine. Mr. Rangel mentioned that.
There there's some question. In the bank's mind whether or not
It's not the question, I should say whether the white people will support
this, but whether the Negro will support this. And I have a resolution
here, uh, we're going to ask you if you believe in this idea, see, because
we need to know today whether or not we can go forward with this idea. And
actually you are the one who will decide. So I have here in my hand a
resolution and I'll read it to you and, and as I read it, you listen to it
and see if you want to, to, to sign it. This is what it amounts to.
We the sign in line with the thinking of the NAACP, the Urban League, and
great leaders for brotherhood in our time, like Dr. Martin Luther King and
President Lyndon B. Johnson, believe that now is the time for brotherhood
, all God's children working together. Black men and white men serving
each other and in line with the 1964 Civil Rights Act on
non-discrimination, do hereby resolve as follows. It is hereby resolved
that we will encourage the construction of the Universal Memorial Center
on the express principles of integration and brotherhood. and hereby
express our faith in God and belief in the fatherhood of God and the
brotherhood of man. And that all men, black and white. Should and can work
together in love and mutual respect. It is further resolved that we
ministers, leaders, and interested citizens do hereby petition the
Universal Memorial Center to continue in this idea of brotherhood.
Did everyone get that? Fine. Now we would like for you to sign this if you
believe, if you believe in what we have said this morning. And we would
like to have all of your signatures for, we have to show the bank that we
believe in integration.
Now please if you don't leave then, don't get me out here and get up.
I'm asking you, I'm not gonna get your mind yet? I feel bad about you
because honestly and seriously this is a great decision tomorrow I'll get
the city to pay the street they'll have that ordinance approved. They have
to prove it. We had a fight. The man across the street didn't hold me.
On the corners right up there doesn't mean nothing in this area is run
down anyway. And it took us, uh, we've been on this thing for over a year.
Now I got this come up tomorrow. If you don't want it, I'm gonna go down
to the city tomorrow and say don't pay in the street because we don't want
these things. Yes brother Jackson. Uh, do you plan to get up and signature
?
Well, yes, well, I'm gonna see them in the main, the whites, I, I, this is
the most important one here and we felt as though that we get the, we have
made a contact with the Methodist Church, they're giving us a better. And
the bishop of the Catholic Church. The letters, they give us or individual
letters are only saying they believe in what we say when you say he did.
They didn't say they gonna go out and bustle those dead for cars.
I mean yes sir we'll get I'm gonna add to this and have a chance to sign
them.
I'm sure the church where you were will get that signed because they were.
Impressed with you. They never met a good Negro about you before the.
The only thing I regret that I'm leaving the state, but I want to be the
first to sign it.
Yeah.