WEBVTT 00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:08.239 Hello. It is May 6th today. The weather has been cool. Recording, May 6th. 00:00:08.939 --> 00:00:14.597 It is May 6th. 00:00:14.630 --> 00:00:18.986 Uh huh. Because, see, I, I don't think any of us are perfect. We do make 00:00:19.019 --> 00:00:22.587 mistakes but the, but the stories that I've been telling you weren't 00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:25.747 mistakes, even though when they were, they were stubbornness, they were 00:00:25.780 --> 00:00:31.265 mulishness. They were, it was something else. It was. I, I don't know what 00:00:31.298 --> 00:00:37.256 else to call it. So, yeah, I have more questions. Um, so do you consider 00:00:37.289 --> 00:00:41.347 your teaching some of your most important work? 00:00:41.380 --> 00:00:44.885 What do you consider most important? The fight, the fight with Gosnell, 00:00:44.918 --> 00:00:48.597 the development company? Oh. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? 00:00:48.630 --> 00:00:56.630 Um, somebody's gonna do a research paper on that later. But, uh, poly 00:00:58.189 --> 00:01:02.856 and humanitarian award sometimes. No, I haven't heard of it. The Petra 00:01:02.889 --> 00:01:08.826 Foundation and she writes a lot. She examines, she analyzes my personality 00:01:08.859 --> 00:01:12.406 in here. Um, 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:16.447 apparently it's an, or it's a foundation in Washington DC that, that 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:22.477 honors, um, unsung heroes. You know, people that, that do things that 00:01:22.510 --> 00:01:26.837 don't belong to clubs and don't do it because they councilman or they do 00:01:26.870 --> 00:01:33.766 it just because they exist and ma make certain things happen, whether they 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:38.676 plan it or it's an accident or apparently that's what it is. But anyway. 00:01:38.709 --> 00:01:43.516 Mhm. One of the things that she says here is that she calls me an 00:01:43.549 --> 00:01:45.947 evergreen 00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:50.926 evergreen in do is one of those evergreen individuals who always produces 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:56.316 fruit, whether nurtured from without or not. Uh And uh she goes on like 00:01:56.349 --> 00:02:02.025 that very uh not widely recognized, does not have a strong institutional 00:02:02.058 --> 00:02:06.766 base of support, has demonstrated capacity to grow even in her advanced 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:12.696 age. The last fight we had was about two months ago has overcome obstacles. 00:02:12.729 --> 00:02:19.036 It goes on like that, you know. Oh jeez. 00:02:19.069 --> 00:02:24.835 Excuse me. Huh? I know. But I wanna finish this one thing. No, what 00:02:24.868 --> 00:02:28.995 happened? Come here. I wanna show you this American American Club of 00:02:29.028 --> 00:02:35.577 Arizona. But the point really is that, um I think what, what leads this 00:02:35.610 --> 00:02:40.737 family to do some of these things that you know, nobody knows about or 00:02:40.770 --> 00:02:47.585 hears about or the whole bit is, is the way we were nurtured in politics. 00:02:47.618 --> 00:02:51.207 Now, your brother got you into that. My father and mother and grandfather 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:56.025 and great grandfather gave you a strong identity as a Mexican American 00:02:56.058 --> 00:03:00.396 told him it was a mu told us it was a must. And when we were, I think 1413 00:03:00.429 --> 00:03:05.577 , something like that, we belong to this club and our dues were like $5 a 00:03:05.610 --> 00:03:09.745 month or something, five cents a month. And one of the reasons he wanted 00:03:09.778 --> 00:03:13.656 to sit there, he says, because you're smart now, that's big stuff for a 00:03:13.689 --> 00:03:20.696 little kid. Uh So we sure we, we wanted to go places. This club was made 00:03:20.729 --> 00:03:27.196 up of mostly young and middle aged people from all over the state. And the 00:03:27.229 --> 00:03:32.396 purpose of it was to get kids, Mexican American kids jobs and education. 00:03:32.429 --> 00:03:36.797 Latin American Club of Arizona Jobs and education. And that would have 00:03:36.830 --> 00:03:42.596 been in the thirties that you're in, that you're in the thirties. And um 00:03:42.629 --> 00:03:47.596 it went on probably it continued to exist until a Lulac took over. And 00:03:47.629 --> 00:03:52.335 Luis Cor the, the leader, he was a very powerful leader, a very 00:03:52.368 --> 00:03:55.995 charismatic man. He used to spend a lot of time in, in our house. He 00:03:56.028 --> 00:04:00.646 traveled a lot. He went everywhere and he knew he was a good politician 00:04:00.679 --> 00:04:03.707 and I'm not talking about partisan politics. I'm probably talking about 00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:07.987 politics of conscience or something. I don't know what it is but he, he 00:04:08.020 --> 00:04:12.267 just filled everybody that he touched with a spirit that you could do 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:14.505 things that you could do things you could make something. That's why we 00:04:14.538 --> 00:04:18.627 were at that convention. We had no business there. We weren't even 18 and 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:25.606 we were voting for a statewide uh endorsement of uh uh governors. And I 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.645 don't know what all the state of Arizona and my sister and I, and about 00:04:29.678 --> 00:04:37.555 four others objected to the nominee. Who knows why we didn't want him. So 00:04:37.588 --> 00:04:41.937 when they called for the votes, we stood up. No, we ran to our rooms and 00:04:41.970 --> 00:04:44.495 locked the door, 00:04:44.528 --> 00:04:52.528 chill. Well, ok, so the reason I bring it up is because I think that, that 00:04:52.629 --> 00:04:58.026 spirit, that feeling that you can do and you should do and somebody must 00:04:58.059 --> 00:05:04.745 do or they'll do it to you, uh pay attention. You know, that, that I think 00:05:04.778 --> 00:05:09.726 made all of us uh push in that direction a little bit. So we, we became 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:15.745 participants and activists and a lot of, lot of little causes. And the 00:05:15.778 --> 00:05:21.351 only one that I can think of that I really took uh danger. Leadership was 00:05:21.384 --> 00:05:26.430 the Gosnell fight because that one to this day is having repercussions. I 00:05:26.463 --> 00:05:30.301 had a phone call last week about a guy's doing research on it and he got, 00:05:30.334 --> 00:05:35.781 he started getting threatening calls already really. 00:05:35.814 --> 00:05:40.041 But the reason that I say that I took leadership in it is because I was up 00:05:40.074 --> 00:05:45.961 in pace at the cabin and returned to Phoenix. This was in 1981 00:05:45.994 --> 00:05:51.075 I believe no 80 must have been 85 00:05:51.108 --> 00:05:56.106 and had a phone call. I was a member of uh what they call the Phoenix 00:05:56.139 --> 00:06:00.627 Village Planning Committee. It was city was subdivided neighborhoods. So I 00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:04.596 was in South Phoenix and one of these women that belonged to that called 00:06:04.629 --> 00:06:08.075 me, she said Gosnell is going to do you know that story at all. Well, then 00:06:08.108 --> 00:06:14.257 I don't have the detail. Anyway, Gosnell is gonna do this and uh, and 00:06:14.290 --> 00:06:17.416 nobody's gonna stop him and all that stuff and he's go, she had gotten 00:06:17.449 --> 00:06:20.666 details that he was gonna present this plan before the city council on a 00:06:20.699 --> 00:06:24.395 certain day. Well, I've been out of town. So anyway, I called, I rounded 00:06:24.428 --> 00:06:28.305 up people for meetings and from then this was in November right after 00:06:28.338 --> 00:06:34.106 Thanksgiving. From then until we filed an injunction. I think in March I 00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:42.139 and my family found a lawyer free, found about five lawyers free and found 00:06:42.670 --> 00:06:47.937 a a um we didn't find him, but our lawyers found a cash supporter that 00:06:47.970 --> 00:06:52.947 would give, I think $10,000 what he gave to help us get started. Another 00:06:52.980 --> 00:06:58.055 friend of ours that we've known from college days and his wife. Um they 00:06:58.088 --> 00:07:03.567 got the volunteers to sign the injunction of the Court of Application and 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.276 that included the leadership in the Senate and the leadership in the House 00:07:06.309 --> 00:07:11.637 , Art Hamilton and Alfredo Gutierrez and Dusty Hatfield signed that thing. 00:07:11.670 --> 00:07:19.096 Anyway, the Phoenix Preservation Council said no to me many times. No, we 00:07:19.129 --> 00:07:23.825 will not help you. No, we will not. No, we will not. No, we will not. And 00:07:23.858 --> 00:07:26.976 their pitch beginning with Dottie Gilbert. Anyway, there were about three 00:07:27.009 --> 00:07:32.296 or four leaders of P A called both Alta because we have just formed such a 00:07:32.329 --> 00:07:36.717 good relationship with the politicians, Downtown City Council. And we 00:07:36.750 --> 00:07:41.416 don't want to endanger that we work too long to get where we are and, and 00:07:41.449 --> 00:07:45.995 we don't want this and we don't want that. When I went to a city council 00:07:46.028 --> 00:07:50.856 meeting, I made my speech, I didn't know a soul in there. There was jam. 00:07:50.889 --> 00:07:56.895 There must have been 1000 people in. And that, um, right after me, uh, 00:07:56.928 --> 00:08:02.926 came this lawyer Simpson Cox and he made his presentation and when I saw 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:07.825 him, I thought, ah, the lights went on, you know, he, he can help me. So 00:08:07.858 --> 00:08:11.296 anyway, then I went, made an appointment, went to see him and we started 00:08:11.329 --> 00:08:16.606 planning and he says, you know, that I've been waiting for you to appear. 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:20.176 Uh That's the way, that's the way the band started for six months. The 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:26.916 North Phoenix Preservation Council would not help us no way. And when they 00:08:26.949 --> 00:08:32.836 started helping us is because I guess they, they figured it was a serious 00:08:32.869 --> 00:08:37.566 thing. That thing ended up in Washington. That problem ended up in 00:08:37.599 --> 00:08:44.076 Washington DC at, in Ed Meese's office. That's how high it went. It went 00:08:44.109 --> 00:08:49.177 to all those. Uh, it was. Uh, and like I tell you, this guy is doing 00:08:49.210 --> 00:08:54.436 research on it on the cemetery end of it. Uh g buried some bodies over 00:08:54.469 --> 00:08:59.807 there and put a building over him. I should say the Yaquis buried some 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:05.196 bodies from Guadalupe years ago, 1900 whenever it was. And he built an 00:09:05.229 --> 00:09:09.816 apartment building over them and claims that he moved the bodies and 00:09:09.849 --> 00:09:13.967 there's a doubt that's the research and you know what that's gonna involve 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:18.206 , that's gonna involve all kinds of state agencies. They have to give 00:09:18.239 --> 00:09:22.927 supportive documents that they did or didn't do something. Well, anyway, 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:26.765 that's why he's getting frightened calls. I know. And so when I talk, when 00:09:26.798 --> 00:09:30.936 he called me recently, there's nobody that I know. I never heard of him. 00:09:30.969 --> 00:09:37.366 Uh, he said, uh, oh, I told him, I said, you better go see a lawyer before 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.125 you get another phone call. He said I already have, I had mentioned in my 00:09:41.158 --> 00:09:43.875 conversation, the name of a certain lawyer and he's already made an 00:09:43.908 --> 00:09:48.917 appointment. It's very serious. Wow. But we did, we did that was very 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:53.986 important and very, very, very important campaign. We didn't get all we 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:58.706 wanted. We didn't want that man around at all. Is that when he built the 00:09:58.739 --> 00:10:03.326 point, the point to some of that land, the golf course in the golf course 00:10:03.359 --> 00:10:08.076 , the point was already built. I mean, a lot of the housing was already 00:10:08.109 --> 00:10:12.005 built, but it was the golf course he wanted, he wanted like 1000 acres of 00:10:12.038 --> 00:10:16.826 Parkland Mountain and that was the fight. He had just been turned down at 00:10:16.859 --> 00:10:23.106 Thunderbird near Squaw Peak. The Thunderbird country club crowd want they 00:10:23.139 --> 00:10:26.746 , they used to have annual golf tournaments and since then they've gone to 00:10:26.779 --> 00:10:32.657 move to Scottsdale. But he wanted to build that same scenario by Squaw 00:10:32.690 --> 00:10:36.096 Peak and the North Mountain Preservation Council wouldn't let him, I mean 00:10:36.129 --> 00:10:40.336 , you know, politics on anyway. They won. He lost. So, what did he do? He 00:10:40.369 --> 00:10:45.096 came down to South Mountain and I guess they thought that, you know, we 00:10:45.129 --> 00:10:49.326 didn't have any Moxie at all and we didn't, we just had, it, got, the 00:10:49.359 --> 00:10:56.736 things got so bad that churches would let us put our petition tables 00:10:56.769 --> 00:11:02.236 inside their, right outside their front door. But no church let us do that. 00:11:02.269 --> 00:11:06.407 That would say north of Thomas Road. 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:10.927 And the other thing that happened is that the, the, the um Jefferson 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:15.236 Street courthouse, the county courthouse on Third and Jefferson is 00:11:15.269 --> 00:11:18.645 supposed to be a non-political area. And of course, this was all 00:11:18.678 --> 00:11:23.106 publicized. You know, I, I, in fact, I deliberately used to call this one 00:11:23.139 --> 00:11:26.726 and that was so something would get printed. So it was out in the public 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.116 domain that we were getting attacked and our petition signers were being 00:11:31.149 --> 00:11:36.927 attacked. And so I called the manager of the um facility there on 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:41.515 Jefferson and third and talked to him. I said, you know, uh uh we want to 00:11:41.548 --> 00:11:46.157 put petition tables in your building. He said, no way that case may end up 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:50.206 in court and they would be in compound. So anyway, we kept on talking and 00:11:50.239 --> 00:11:53.856 then I called two or three politician friends that I had and they 00:11:53.889 --> 00:11:57.366 encouraged him in that one. I was a board on the board of supervisors at 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:02.726 the time they encouraged him to consider it because we were in danger. You 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.816 know, he let us, he let us put a petition table at every entrance to that 00:12:06.849 --> 00:12:11.625 building and he got the Sheriff's department to help us to help keep us 00:12:11.658 --> 00:12:17.525 safe. Yeah, it was a, it was a very, so I do hope this, this, uh, fellow 00:12:17.558 --> 00:12:22.625 does do good research. I have a lot of, I'm gonna hand, I'm gonna take it 00:12:22.658 --> 00:12:28.706 all over to the Hayden library. I have a lot of, uh, news, news, uh, 00:12:28.739 --> 00:12:36.015 accounts, but also I have a drawer like that with court documents 00:12:36.048 --> 00:12:41.525 and great. I'm sorry. They observed all that. Yeah, that, that has been, 00:12:41.558 --> 00:12:45.467 that was a significant thing. But the, the major I think the one that 00:12:45.500 --> 00:12:50.167 makes me feel the best is what we've been able to do in the last 10 years 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:56.287 for maybe for Mexican Americans of the future. We have been working real 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:01.196 hard on family history. Ok? It is said that if you, if it isn't written, 00:13:01.229 --> 00:13:06.407 it didn't happen. Well, that's fine. But what we want is we would like it 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:12.135 to be an example to other people do this. You know, some of you, if you 00:13:12.168 --> 00:13:16.375 have 2000 of you out there may be 10 of you there can, you know, find the 00:13:16.408 --> 00:13:19.996 energy to do this. I can see that your focus is on that. That's, that's 00:13:20.029 --> 00:13:24.515 what we're doing. And when we moved to Wickenburg, I had already been, I 00:13:24.548 --> 00:13:30.606 was a member of the Board of trustees at the Phoenix Museum City Museum. 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:36.145 And then, uh they invited me here to be on that board and what we've been 00:13:36.178 --> 00:13:40.076 able to do. Alice and I worked real good on this. We, we really complement 00:13:40.109 --> 00:13:47.047 each other. We were able to do is, um, we 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:51.385 developed a little organization to take oral histories. It lasted a couple 00:13:51.418 --> 00:13:57.755 of years and um, it was a very formally done little organization and then 00:13:57.788 --> 00:14:02.797 that resulted that and other things that the museum was working on. Plus 00:14:02.830 --> 00:14:08.986 we created a fund for one of my deceased aunts to honor her to be used in 00:14:09.019 --> 00:14:13.086 a certain way with having to do with Mexican American History here because 00:14:13.119 --> 00:14:16.525 the previous book that was done by the museum said they couldn't find any 00:14:16.558 --> 00:14:20.635 Mexican American History. So that's why there wasn't any in that book. 00:14:20.668 --> 00:14:24.775 Well, we've done a book, I guess. I don't know if you've seen it, Mark 00:14:24.808 --> 00:14:29.196 Mark Price book and we've done a book and now we've done the play and that 00:14:29.229 --> 00:14:36.505 about, hm, I think if it lasted 2.5 hours, um, the second act was all 00:14:36.538 --> 00:14:39.566 minority um representing, 00:14:39.599 --> 00:14:44.047 there was a black woman in her history and then three or four Mexican um 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:48.967 American history skits and my father and mother were in one of them. Great 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:53.625 , neat. You know, and there's a lot of original Mexican music of the 00:14:53.658 --> 00:14:57.566 period. I think I talked to the woman when she was starting to organize 00:14:57.599 --> 00:15:03.226 that because I do work as a Cheryl Taylor. It was a, it was a huge success. 00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:09.417 They sold out both nights and they have turned people away. But anyway, 00:15:09.450 --> 00:15:17.450 that's, that's the, we have used our own little uneducated, uninformed 00:15:18.058 --> 00:15:24.625 ways to put pressure on certain certain places that will produce what we 00:15:24.658 --> 00:15:29.356 think should be produced. And this thing, this museum has been in 00:15:29.389 --> 00:15:36.366 existence for 2530 years. And to this day, I mean, till last year, they 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:43.336 didn't uh represent the Mexican American history at all, at all. And our 00:15:43.369 --> 00:15:50.787 goal really is to show them, they must produce a permanent exhibit. And 00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:55.206 I'm not saying that there has to be a Chinese one here and a Mexican one 00:15:55.239 --> 00:16:03.037 here and a white one here and an Indian one there. They can work it out. 00:16:03.070 --> 00:16:07.135 You know, this happened and then that happened and then this happened and 00:16:07.168 --> 00:16:11.826 in all these happenings, certain people were kinds of people were involved 00:16:11.859 --> 00:16:18.307 if you know their names, use them. Yeah. Right. You know, so I think that 00:16:18.340 --> 00:16:24.658 I should come to an end. Well, it's too bad that we're trying to do.