Today is August 19th, 2011. I'm David Berman, Professor Emeritus of
Political Science at Arizona State University. Today, we're interviewing
Alexis Taron who was on Congressman Harry Mitchell's staff and uh worked
here in Arizona and in Washington DC. Both and this is part of a project
that we're doing for the Harry Mitchell Papers at A SU with the Arizona
Collection.
Uh I really looked into your background and saw all kinds of wonderful
things that you were born and superior, born and raised and superior and
uh graduated from a SU in political Science, which we always like to see
our people. Go ahead and do great things. So you get extra points. Uh
We'll change your grades.
Thank you. And you might have had additional education at Georgetown,
Princeton, Harvard. You've been around and done very well. How did you
first become active in politics or when did you actually, I became
interested in politics? Probably at an early age. I was writing letters to
the editor for a small town paper. I was on student council. I was very
involved as a kid and my parents always thought I was going to grow up to
be a lawyer because I just like to argue.
And then, but I really got involved in politics, believe it or not. Here
on the campus of Arizona State, I got involved with the young Democrats.
It was an election year. People were getting volunteers on the mall to go
door knocking on the weekends and I signed up, ended up walking. My first
campaign was for Jay Blanchard who was an, a su professor who ran for
Senate out in Gilbert. And one because there was quite the controversy
going around out there about alt fuels
and ended up getting involved really on the on campus in an elected
politics.
Yeah, I believe Jay ran in 2000 or 2002. And that, and he introduced me to
a good friend of his when I was, he was at the legislature was Harry
Mitchell. I know that they were, I always would see them together. I know
they were good friends. You worked with young Democrats. You were
president and I was, we had a saying on campus was that if you showed up
to two or more meetings, you were a leader. And because the meetings were
always at the top of the m at 3 p.m. on Fridays mainly so that people
right after the meeting could go to happy hour. And so we would, we would
, we would go there, we would meet and, and yeah, I ended up a year or two
years. Into my experience with the young Democrats. I ended up the state
president of the young Democrats of America. So basically at that time, it
was the young Democrats usually based at a suu of a and a couple of
community colleges. So it was quite the experience. It opened a lot of
doors for me. I would not be in politics right now if it wasn't for the
young Democrats and the youth activism on campus with the Arizona
Democratic Party as political director for a number of years with four
years. Yeah. And that was actually kind of stumbled into that. I ended up
doing the legislative internship through a su down at the legislature for
a semester. And that was a great time. That was when the legislature or
the State Senate was 1515 split. So Democrats had to work with Republicans
and vice versa. All the committees were split and it did make for more of
a policy learning environment instead of a political environment because
people had to work with each other. And I ended up a good friend of mine
worked at the state Party and I would go up there for lunch every once in
a while when I was at the legislature and a job came up and they were like
, would you want to work here after you leave the legislature? That would
be great. Ended up at the Arizona Democratic Party as a working on data
entry and rose I was fortunate to rise quickly and become political
director. When did you first meet Harry and get involved with Blanchard?
You said it was because when I went down for the legislature, legislative
internship through ASU
one of the first, they gather the interns and basically have once a month
meetings or brown bag lunches with a senator. And I worked with Democratic
staff. So they had, they would bring one of the Democrats to come and have
lunch with interns. And the very first lunch was with Harry Mitchell. And
I remember him asking me specifically, what brought you down here? What's
your interest in politics? And I told him my activism had actually worked
on his campaign just as a volunteer in 2000. I never met him. But, and he
, his response was don't come down to the legislature, stay in the cities
, the cities treat you better and it's much nicer. So it was kind of funny
because I was just shocked like, well, thank you Senator for your candor.
He was like, I'm serious because, you know, when I was mayor and he went
on talking about the city of Tempe. But uh I think uh he taught me
something there. And at that point, we just kind of stayed in touch and
his good friend Jay Blanchard because I had worked on his campaign. Jay
would come and get me from the basement at the state legislature talk
politics because he knew he could and they were good friends. So it kind
of just went from there. He was
a mayor of, I think that's deep in him. Yes, that is what has pretty much
defined him made him kind of who he is today. He has, he wore multiple
hats. He was mayor while he was a teacher at Tempe High. But his
interactions and having to deal with everyday problems from trash pick up
to whether or not you have a street light on your street. He learned his
interaction and staying in touch with the community by being mayor.
Essentially when he got to Congress, he wanted to treat it as he was the
mayor of the congressional district. And that was probably what was the
baseline of what we built from was how do we become the mayor of the
congressional district five? Because that's what Harry wanted to do that
he was, you were at the state party when he became chair? Yes. So you
reconnected there. Yes, I tried to talk him out of it. I didn't think he
was going to like it because he's not, he's never really been a partisan
guy. He was, you know, he had friends on both sides of the aisle and he
was asked to run for chairman. He was termed out of the State Senate and
he thought it would be a fun thing to do and there's fun parts. But then
there's also the, you know, he was going to have to be uh a partisan guy
at that point. And despite my best efforts, he decided he wanted to serve
in that capacity and it turned out great. I mean, I had been there a while
so I was just like, are you sure this is something for you because you're
not, you know, a fire breather? And he was like, no, you know, I, I
believe in this and he wanted to somehow continue to serve even after he
left the legislature. So he ended up becoming the chair of the Democratic
Party. He didn't say that long. He decided to run for the office.
It was quite funny because during that time, it was all the Abramoff
dealings and a lot of stuff that was going on in Washington. And I
specifically remember one of the news channels here in Phoenix went to his
house because he couldn't get down to Phoenix for whatever reason to
interview him because he was chair of the party or chair of the Democratic
Party and asked him, what are the Democrats going to do with regard to
Congressman Hayworth? And we still have this on tape and we tease him
constantly. He was standing out there and he was like, well, what we're
going to do is we're going to go out and find the best candidate, we're
going to run him and we're going to win. Not anyone thinking at that time
that that candidate would be Harry. Yeah. So he was, and we sort might
remember when you, you know, we were talking to the channel 12 or whatever
, uh, news station it was and you said you're gonna go out and recruit a
candidate and he was like, I did, I recruited the best one. So it, it's
quite funny. It's a very funny story. A lot of people thought that was a
hopeless cause that was really uphill. Uh The district described the
district at that time, it was 17 point advantage Republican district. Um
But given, given the demographics of the district, given Tempe Scottsdale
, Awai. Um it's a moderate district in comparison to where you look
outside and in or around Arizona in terms of who actually lives here. What
are their politics that goes beyond a party label? And we knew that which
was quite funny because when all the stuff was happening with Congressman
Hayworth and everyone had always, you know, he always had a target on him
opposition wise, but no one thought they could ever beat him. And so there
was a poll done early on which was done by folks in Arizona to try to
recruit someone to run, to say it was possible because given the
demographic make up of the district, even with such a partisan
registration advantage on the other side, that, you know, to show that it
was possible in the numbers and it came back that the strongest candidate
was Harry Mitchell and uh, they tested that poll tested Harry, it tested
the mayor of Scottsdale at the time who was a Democrat. It tested um, a
candidate for Mayor Greg Stanton and the one that came on top and it has
to be because of his, his service to the community and him being mayor for
so long, it showed that Harry could beat Hayworth by, it showed Harry he
beating Hayworth by two points. We were, it was like November before even
anyone thought of anything. And it was uh Harry, Harry hadn't seen it. So
it was quite interesting and I, I was just proud because I was like, who
was, it was a poll commissioned by the Arizona Democratic Party used as a
recruitment tool to say that there was a chance in this district and
basically to find out who best would represent, you probably knew. But
what was it about Harry that made him stand out and that, you know,
honestly, it had to be name ID. It had to be people being familiar with
Harry because he was on the council and mayor forever. He has a 36 ft
statue of himself outside of city hall so that I'm sure that had to help,
couldn't have hurt. But he had, he had built a reputation. He had built a
career in, in the center of that district. So it was kind of a no brainer.
He had been in office. He was turned out he was looking for something to
do became chairman of the Democratic Party. And so
finally, when approached, and it was funny because we were actually in the
social science building in the atrium, we were doing, the Democratic Party
was putting on a,
a training session for precinct committee people and how to go knock doors.
Very basic type of training. And Harry and I were sitting outside on one
of the park benches and he was signing baseballs because that was, if you
got something right, he'd throw you a baseball and it was signed by the
chairman of the party. So it was just cool. And I asked him, uh, so what
do you think? What are you thinking? What's going on in your head? He goes
, well, Rahm Emanuel called me and asked me, you know, if I would think
about it and I'm like, I know. So, are you going to do it? He's like, yeah.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it. Not breaking stride. Continue. Yeah, very
nonchalantly still signing baseballs. And I'm like, wait a minute, put
down the ball. Are you really, are you really going to do it? He was like
, yeah, why not? He goes, I know I can, I can beat him. You know, I have,
I know this district I grew up here. He goes, yeah, I could do it. He
never lost his confidence. And, uh, and he was 66 at the time thinking
about running for Congress. I asked him, have you talked to Mary Anne, his
wife? Because now I'm gonna go talk to her this evening when I'm done here
and I just started laughing like, wow, ok, so you're ready for Congress?
He just made up his mind by himself. And that was it. He had, he had told
me later on that he had always thought about running for Congress but
never really thought hard enough or give it serious thought to actually
jump in. But I think he will also say that he might not have known what he
was getting into because all his campaigns were ran pretty much in the
heart of Tempe. Everybody had known him and it was going to be a much more
difficult campaign, a campaign in which people didn't think he was going
to be tough enough because they always knew him as good old Harry Harry,
that good old Harry
nice guy would give you the shirt off his back type guy. So, yeah, it was
the big concern I heard when I was and I was still at the state party at
that time. Part of my job was also to go out and identify and recruit
candidates as a political director. And biggest criticism was, well, will
Harry, you know, get mean, will Harry have the, the skin for it? You know
, Harry's too nice of a guy. He's going up against JD Hayworth and JD
Hayworth is, you know, he fights hard, will, will Harry do the same. And,
you know, quite honestly, and I told him the same thing, you know, will
you, I knew him too as you know, Harry, the teacher, Harry, the mayor,
good, nice guy who, you know, I could never see him going for the jugular.
He didn't. No, I mean, he, he, he gave as good as he took in that sense.
It was a great campaign. The people that ended up on that there, four of
us actually on paid staff during that first campaign and we didn't need to
hire other people just because Harry came with this army of volunteers and
people that had worked on his very first campaign, he just had flip a
switch and made phone calls and all of a sudden people just showed up and
, you know, we heard all of the, you know, Harry, this is great that he's
doing this. At least we have someone running against Hayworth, but
probably not until the last three months of the campaign that people
really believe like Harry could actually pull us off. So it was a good one.
Did the Arizona Republic's endorsement make a difference. I do think that
in those last days they were running neck and neck in the polls. We had
internal polls showing neck and neck literally within the margin of error
and there was public polls that said the same thing. So at the, at the
very end with the Republican endorsement. Um, more of it just to be,
they totally beat up Hayworth and, you know, for the most part, the
congressman at the time deserved it. He got a little complacent and I do
think that it did at the last minute, pushed us over the edge. We won by
8023 votes. So I think that yes, it's like 8023 if I remember correctly
and it did help. It certainly didn't hurt. I understand that the editorial
board, meaning that Hayworth did not look very July. I can put it that way
, but some people were shocked at his behavior there. Yes. And we, Harry
was very prepared for all his
meetings with Hayworth, whether there are debates or the board, the board
we prepared quite a bit for because Congressman Hayworth is very, I mean,
he is sharp, he's very sharp, he knows his issues, but he's very
aggressive. So it was making sure that Harry didn't, you know, we didn't
want Harry to get clobbered, so he was ready for it. But the interesting
thing about the Republican, the Republican editorial board was I remember
Harry coming back to the campaign office and I was like, that was just the
weirdest thing ever. He was sitting there and he said that he was
literally right next to him just staring at him trying to intimidate him.
And so we were like, well, what did you do? He goes, well, nothing. You
know, I just kept talking and, you know, he, he goes, it was, I almost
feel his breath on me and it was noticed it was very much noticed by the
board and, uh, and they took note of that in there. Yes.
And he was definitely trying to bully Harry, trying to intimidate him
during that board. I mean, he did it with, when Harry ran, he got support
of former donors of Hayward because Harry has a lot of Republican support
because of all his years on the council and there was intimidation put
upon those donors as well, but they stuck with Harry because they've
basically known him forever and his kids grew up. So he won and you got a
staff position first as a district director where you're going to make him
mayor of the district was that established at that time when you were
there. That was the goal, the goal, it was probably a couple of months in
, ended up having a staff retreat to figure out how it is. We were going
to run the offices, we came out and all the DC staff came out to Tempe.
And that was the goal. The main thing that Harry conveyed was, you know, I
have 30 almost 30 years of service to this district. I'm not changing my
style. So, you know, whether I go to Washington or I'm here, I I need to
be me. So it was you know, how do you keep Harry Harry? And by keeping
Harry, Harry was ok. Well, then you're the, the district and we were
setting out to set up a constituent service plan and strategy to ensure
that to make sure that he was always accessible. I mean, he came back
every weekend and every Saturday he was at Costco. Everybody knew he was
at Costco. None of that could change. And, you know, as much as
congressional staffers want to staff the, the congressman or staff the
principal and make sure that they don't misspeak or say this or say that
that's wrong or can be misconstrued. Harry had, he had no desire for any
of that. So it was Keith Harry, Harry, how did he do that? Mayor of the
district? Visibility up in the district? But what could he do? I mean,
could he just listen if the policy thinks he was getting or was it
complaints or? Oh, it ranged the gamut actually, it was everything from,
hey, Harry, I think this is wrong or hey, Harry, you're terrible to, hey
Harry, keep doing what you're doing. And it was always interesting and it
was our Costco focus group. We used to call it because Harry would go to
Costco and hear every different point of view. And this is the Costco in
Tempe which basically gets Tempe awa, you know, so he had a good focus
group in that sense. And yeah, it ranged the gamut and people still, you
know, they would come to him even with city issues. Like, well call my son
or call City Hall, you know. Yeah, I can't, I can't do anything about that.
You need, you know, you need to call City Hall. Um, so it, it, it ranged
,
I was just thinking, you see these meetings now and they're so contentious
and angry and you almost don't want to have them anymore. And I even think
Harry got to that point during the campaign.
He had his first, his first term. He was everywhere. We had these Congress
on your corners very similar to what
Gabby and Harry went in at the same time.
So every weekend and we communicated with her office quite a bit just
because they were freshmen in Congress at the same time, they were both in
moderate districts with Republican registration advantage. So he had a lot
of public events, a lot of congress on your corners. And then it was right
around August of 2009 when the health care debate came up and it got, he
still continued probably into March February March of next year. But it
got dangerous. I mean, we got, we got threats called in. Um, there were
threats called in, I believe to, I don't know if it was Mark's office at
City Hall but Mark his son who was on the council at his house got some
phone call. Mary Anne Harry still has a published number. So he'd, he'd
get phone calls at the house and it was Mary Anne who was fielding him
while he was in DC. And it was just, it was not from a congressional
staffer point of view. It was a scary time and we want to protect the
member at the same time as the chief of staff, I was worried about the
staff and actually having them at those events where there could have been
an altercation, which there were threats of. So, you know, we tried
alternative means, whether it was telephone town hall or small smaller get
togethers in neighborhoods where we would then send out postcards and your
congressman is coming. But they weren't publicized so that it could issue
was, it was the turning point. We'll get to that because I think the
election and all of the problems that came up,
you were a, I guess uh staff is extension of the personality and style of
the, of the congress person. And so that you all try to be like Harry or
at least follow his tone. We should have wore bracelets with the, what
would Harry Mitchell do? But that was always kind of the thought of, well
, how would Harry handle this? And it was mainly driven by the fact that
he never wanted any one of his old friends or constituents or even
students to think that he changed when he became a congressman and went to
Washington. And that's why he, 6667 years old was coming back every single
weekend. He was racked up the frequent flyer miles and he wanted people.
And I think also he was concerned that if he stayed there, he would change.
So
kept the house and he had to come home and see the grandkids soccer games.
And so it became everyone. Ok. How do we keep Harry, Harry? And it was
very much ingrained in us. What would Harry do or would he do this? Does
it sound like him and even the press releases and anything we sent out
from our offices very much sounded like him. It was folksy,
but that was him.
II, I have a question too that he was a little bit like Mr Smith goes to
Washington with the movie, uh, where he was sort of
innocent, wide eyed, thrilled to be, I think it's a product of him being a
civics teacher at high. And he would have people come back to, you know,
obviously we had people come back from Arizona to meet with him in his
congressional office. But he made it a point if he knew who was coming in
and they were from back home from TP Scottsdale, he would be like, ok, I
want to drop in, ok, what you have to be here or there. It's like, well,
but I'm going to come by so make it, try to arrange it. So I can come by
and any time there was kids in the office and if the bells rang, let's
come to come with me and I'm gonna show you and everyone thought it was
just great, obviously. But this was something that he loved to show people.
Like, you know, there's much more to this. So I've taught this in books
and had you in class, but let me really show you. And then when they asked
him, how do you like it? I was like, it's not the way I taught it. And
then he would go into what was wrong with it, but always still idealistic
in the sense of, but this is why we need people to run and we need people
here so that we can make it better. It was a learning experience for him
as well as definitely, that's something about campaigns too. I think you
learn a lot during the campaign. At least I understand it.
I looked at your uh job responsibilities and it was unending. I mean, I,
and I found this statement, I think you were the traffic cop and political
compass compass for the Mitchell office. That's how you were described. Is
that, is that accurate? Yeah, I think, you know, the job as a chief of
staff can vary depending upon the member. Um And I saw my role as getting
the best and the brightest in the office and I was a manager of the type
that I wanted to hire people who were a lot more bright than me because I
certainly don't know everything and if we can find the right mix of people
, we would be successful. So I did see my role more as a traffic cop and
making sure, you know, there wasn't any congestion, there wasn't any
accidents. And because of my, because growing up born and raised in
Arizona,
I have my position at the Democratic Party. I felt like I had a good pulse
of Arizona, in particular in the district. I went to A U I lived in the
district. So I felt like
in consultation with the district staff once I left and went to Washington
that we had a good kind of handle and then delivering the news of the
congressman so that he could make whatever decisions he needed to make.
And then once the traffic started to flow on his decision, making sure it
flowed freely and correctly without any accidents. So that traffic cop is
probably the best description.
How did you divide up your functions or people have specific
responsibilities and then you brought them together or? Yeah, I think
Harry hand on hands on manager. No, he he's definitely was the visionary
in the office. He said the tone and he very much from even his days as
mayor, the city manager runs the city runs the staff with in in
consultation with the mayor and council. So that was kind of ingrained in
him. So he very much you take care of this and like a lot of politicians,
they avoid conflict at all costs or try. And when you're in an office like
ours, which was so many eyes were on it, not because of Harry, but because
Harry got elected in a Republican district, therefore he always had a
target on him. As a democrat, we knew that we had to,
there was going to be some hard decisions. And Harry described it as
walking kind of a double yellow line. He was taking hits from both sides.
So it was pretty much he made the decisions on policy and where we're
going to go based upon his feelings in his district. And but for the most
part, the operations of the office were staff driven. And when I went to
Washington as chief of staff, I started in the district office as a
district director and seven months in went to DC to become the chief of
staff. And it was pretty much at that point, I wanted to make sure
everyone knew what their roles were going to be. We pretty much defined
them. The legislative director, I hired him once he was hired, he was
hired for a reason,
pretty much kind of empowered the staff and that's kind of how we ran.
Everybody kind of knew what they were doing and everyone always had
access to Harry. You can go in his office because that's the way he wanted
it free flow ideas. Anybody people suggested to you from other people who
had some of them worked on the hill before. Yes. And for the most part,
the core staff myself,
Matt, who was our legislative director, Chris, who was Harry's kind of go
to fix it, administrative director
and a couple of others. They were there from day one until we closed. So
it was a really core staff and even, you know, on the hill, there's a lot
of uh turnover and people, you know, going in and trying to do other
things. But our problem in our office was that there was not a lot of
turnovers. So there wasn't a lot of room for advancement because people
stayed and they stayed because of Harry. Did you have discussion of issues
and then sessions where you go back and forth? Yes. And it was quite
lively
where the legislative team, which would be the director and his staff,
legislative assistants would we put time on Harry's schedule so that he
knew that this was a discussion of whatever big issues of the day. For the
most part, we knew where Harry was going to be on a lot of the issues just
because of his record. But some of the big issues we debated the tarp bill
, which is the bank bailout. There was quite a number of sessions on Harry
would sit there in the middle. Ok, give me the facts. And then he want us
to argue both sides and he would take information from everyone and he
wasn't that type of the, you know, the last person he talked to was that's
what he took. He would just sit there and let it all soak in and kind of
marinate. It was also frustrating for the staff because we wanted, we
needed to know so we can write the constituent letter so we can get
everything lined up. So once he took that vote, we'd be ready for a
response. But he really sat there and took it in from everyone and then
would make a decision then tell him. All right, this is what I'm gonna do.
Did you, did you, did he open the door to anybody who wanted to talk to
him? Any group or the regulars that came in? Well, you do have your
regulars that do come in, um, bigger associations that visit Washington
and, and have the various different meetings at different times of the
year. But yeah, I mean, he pretty much had an open door policy again. He
was the mayor. He knew that he had to come home and he would bump into
someone who, you know, he never wanted to bump into someone and then they
say I had a horrible experience through the office or I called and I
couldn't get a response or, you know, I wanted to meet you but they said I
couldn't. So in addition to all the meetings he had, we had a lot of
meetings as staff,
one on one in the district and even in DC, because pretty much anyone who
wanted to meet with him got, got some time with him or his staff, I guess
we could get on to some of the more political and policy issues. Did Harry
object to being called a blue blue dog Democrat? Was that accurate? Was
that appropriate for him or would you? Well, I do think actually it was
appropriate because if you look at the make up of the blue dogs, it was
very diverse. I mean, you have your Southern Democrats who are more
conservative, but you also had a lot of Democrats in California who were
blue dogs and it was mainly on fiscal issues. And I think it was an
association with a group that did reflect some of his views, not all of
them. He also was born and raised in the city. So I think when it comes to
issues of city governments of
some more cultural conservative views, he didn't share with that group,
but on fiscal matters, he did, he voted his district or he tried to vote
and so he was, but when it came to health care was a voting, this district
was that I would say yes because based upon the phone calls and the
letters, the district was down the middle split and he was even approached
by city council members and other elected officials of the opposite party
in his district saying we need health care. They would never say publicly
for fear of retribution. But he was approached by people who didn't
necessarily voice their position because it was a very contentious debate.
It wasn't your typical water cooler conversation around the office
because it was so heated. But with regard to his voting record, he always
said that his job title is his description. He was a representative, he
was sent to represent his district. And so he very much thought that way
when voting and you know, it's very interesting because Tempe is very
different from Scottsdale. And you know, ATU is very different from Tempe.
And so in his home base and everything he knew was in Tempe. So it did
put him at odds with parts of the district but as a whole in particular
with health care. Um and we did, we did a poll in the district during that
time as well. The district was definitely split down the middle as to
whether you vote for health care reform or you vote against it. And at the
end of the day, given that it was so divided
5050 he knew that he was sent to Congress to do something big and
sometimes you do stuff people don't like. And that's kind of his, he would
win and lose and he wanted to do something at the end of the day. It was,
we had the discussion. You could not win. If you did this or not, you
could decide whether or not you would win re election. And at the end of
the day, he said, I didn't, I didn't come here for nothing and I'm a
democrat and we need health care. That's what he said. So he went out and
voted that way. He wanted to history who has got the side of history. This
was something that had to be done. Yes, he was very much during the
campaign. He was, he defended his position quite frequently and he didn't
back down even though it looked at the time it was very unpopular to do
that. And the were you getting sense of the tea party movement or any, any
activity like that? And yes, eight and nine and that you're talking about
the meetings being becoming less friendly. And at that point too, I mean,
health care at the time to both parties are guilty of trying to stack the
deck at a, at a town meeting. And during health care, it was easy to stack
the deck against health care. And a lot of people came out and at that
point, it wasn't to hear about
what was in the bill. It was because there was no interest by anyone who
was showing up, but maybe two or three people out of a crowd of 50 to 75
that actually went to find out more information if you went, you had your
mind made up. So then it was just a forum for argument with no real
resolution. And at a certain point too, I think as staff, we came to a
point of what we're doing is basically setting up almost a free for all.
And it's not necessarily more concern for the congressman or his safety,
but people would get up and we saw this would argue with each other and it
was just, it was ugly to watch and it's very easy for that to get out of
control. So it was, and I wouldn't put all the blame on the tea party, but
they're certainly not shy about voicing their opinion. What about the SB
1070 was that did that figure in somehow in the election? I think it
figured in more of a mindset of Arizonans and
I don't know how I think people's minds were made up because that was 1070
was signed in a law 23 months after health care was passed. So it was kind
of adding on to the heap of controversial issues. But I do think that it
was an issue obviously that Harry was passionate about being a
representative from Arizona and it was something that he spoke out against
because of the, the he understood the intent and why people sought to do
it. But I think the rhetoric was just so out of control and
in that district, I assume as well as the rest of the state, there's this
anti federal government kind of idea. You know, they, they're not doing
their job and we are closing the border and, you know, sort of stick to it
and it's very, it's very weird and Arizona politics is such a strange
animal. It's great and this is why I love it, but, I mean, Arizona
wouldn't exist without the federal government. So on one hand, you had
during the bank bailout debate and what not you had, you know,
constituents basically saying you need to do this because our 400 ones are
going to go down our stock, hold all our investments, you have to go in
and do this. You need the government intervention at that point. But then
for other issues like, you know, we get the government off our backs and
then 1070 what was going on during the election year in Arizona just added
to that of the federal government is not doing its job, but we don't want
the federal government but it's not doing its job. So it was very
schizophrenic in, in that sense, was quite different in non election years
than election years. Every year was an election year for us because of the
district
since 2000 early 2006, when Harry announced he was running for Congress,
the election never stopped just because he won with a very small margin.
We knew we were going to head into a tough re elect the re election, they
say is always the toughest one. History wasn't on our side in 2008. From
that perspective where a Democrat in the metro Phoenix area
didn't get re elected. And there was Karen English, Sam Coppersmith.
Sam went to seek a different office, but there was not someone who had
successfully won re election. So we were constantly on. Um And then
heading in at 10, it never really turned off eight. Wasn't that you did
better, right. Yes. Yes. Yes, he won by almost 10 points. 10 points. Yeah.
So that was, that was a good reflection on what they thought about his uh
record for the first two years I thought uh and uh but you didn't become
complacent with that, you just realize that you're gonna have to work in
2010. It's much harder, but you faced the same guy.
How come you could beat him by 10 and then lose that by product of the
mood of the country. The country was angry and it was reflected all over
the place including Arizona.
It was lower but usually lower non presidential years. So it was, you know
, our base as Democrats, they were less motivated than two years prior
during the presidential election. And the other side was just a lot more
fired up and motivated. So I do think that had it been a regular even hard
fought election year without a wave, without that mood swing, mood swing
that the country was in. Harry would still be in Congress. I have no doubt
in my mind up until January February heading into the election year right
before even during health care, Harry remained strong and above his
competitors in polling,
but there was a definite mood shift. And then on top of what is happening
in the country, you have local politics. SB 1270 immigration debate in
Arizona happening that fed into a base that was already motivated. So it
wasn't a good year for Democrats. So you have to bring that in. But it
seems that in a way, I guess I, I, if I were on the staff, I would think
it's a tragic and uh it's uh it's something that I'm still trying to get
over it. It's uh it's hard to take and, and uh it's uh I don't know, how
do you, when you look back, how do you, that was certainly the low point.
But um what was the high point? What, what was accomplished or what, what
, what are you most proud of in that, that service in that time? You know
, I think uh I'll look at it two different ways personally. I think what
was one of our greatest accomplishments, was assembling a team around
Harry who were entirely,
you know, drank the Harry Mitchell Kool aid that were just solidly behind
him and wanted to see him succeed. He always said, you know, in order for
a person to be successful, a whole lot of other people want them to be.
And it very much kind of embodied who we were as a staff. We didn't have a
lot of turnover because people stayed because of him. We had certain drama
as any staff would, especially in such a kind of high pressure environment.
But for the most part, people would lay down their swords in the overall
cause which was serving Harry so that he could serve his district. He just
kind of inspired that in the staff. So I think one of the biggest
accomplishments for us was to keep that intact the entire time and make
sure that we reflected him because we didn't want in two years or four
years for to do any damage to his reputation back home. We were all very
cognizant of the man who had a statue in his hometown and just who he was.
So that was a major accomplishment. I think just as a congressional
office and what the congressman was able to do. I think we're all very
proud of the work we did in supporting his desire to service veterans. He
wasn't a fan or
supporter of the interventions we were having overseas Iraq and
Afghanistan. The only way that he could,
Phil himself kind of entered the debate without being highly controversial
was OK. Well, then what are we doing for folks when they come back? And
that was him being a teacher thinking, well, we need to give these kids an
education. We need to make sure that the G I Bill was outdated and we need
to make sure that it can service them and their families. We're asking for
extraordinary sacrifices and what are we doing for them when they get back
? So that became a real passion for him. And was that something he
developed when he got there when he got there, he got a seat on, on the
Veterans Committee. And I also think because two, there was a, I mean,
Arizona has a high population of veterans. So it was, it seemed a natural
fit and that he, he sought it out and they actually made him then a
subcomittee chair. And, you know, it's not a glamorous committee. You
don't, you know, you don't,
I say you don't, uh,
it's a lot of work that people don't pay attention to only something bad
happens. Do they do a story on the news or, you know, they see someone in
a wheelchair and it's unfortunate and he always thought it was unfortunate
that, you know, that's the way it was. So his job he saw also in kind of
protest to what was happening was ok. Well, then, you know, we sent him to
war, but we don't take care of him when we get back. And, you know, it's
that's not, that's not who we are as a country. So he, he developed that
passion when he got there. And he, he, he, he also even said, you know,
when I was teaching at Tempe High, I knew a lot of kids that went off to
Vietnam and I taught these kids and they didn't come back and when they
came back, some of them didn't come back. Right.
So he was speaking from experience having seen the transition and now he
was in a position of power to help. And so it became a big part of his
portfolio in Congress. And therefore the staff wanted to make sure he had
everything that he needed to make the changes that he wanted to have. I
forgotten anything that you want to say that we left out here. No, I think
, I mean, I did talk a lot so I appreciate your comments. No, I think, I
mean, you said and I agreed that, I mean, I took, I as his chief of staff
, I had to talk to him and advise him in the good and the bad. There was
times when he avoided me because usually I had to tell him something bad.
There would, there would be some weeks where I'd see him on Monday when
he got off the plane and wouldn't see him until Friday when he said I'm
leaving because, you know, he knew that I had stuff for him to do and you
know, I think that members of Congress, despite what their ideology is or
party, they have to, a good portion of them have to work very hard. And
for a guy who went in as the oldest freshman of his class to put in as
much as he did, and he'll even say that he probably worked harder at this
job than anything else, including preparing for teaching a class the next
day. That, that it's really unfortunate to see where the country is right
now.
And he also said the worst thing that worse than losing was probably
winning because you have to be back there right now. But I think that it
was quite an experience for me. This kid from superior ended up being a
chief of staff or a member of Congress from Arizona. It was quite an
experience for me and I'm very grateful that he worked his butt off to get
there and I kind of went along for the ride. So he was a very special guy
and I know a lot of people can say that about their bosses or that's why
they work for certain elected officials. But
he has a statue for a reason.