WEBVTT 00:00:05.459 --> 00:00:07.459 Today is August 19th, 2011. I'm David Berman, Professor Emeritus of 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:15.456 Political Science at Arizona State University. Today, we're interviewing 00:00:15.489 --> 00:00:23.015 Alexis Taron who was on Congressman Harry Mitchell's staff and uh worked 00:00:23.048 --> 00:00:27.817 here in Arizona and in Washington DC. Both and this is part of a project 00:00:27.850 --> 00:00:31.186 that we're doing for the Harry Mitchell Papers at A SU with the Arizona 00:00:31.219 --> 00:00:33.527 Collection. 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.695 Uh I really looked into your background and saw all kinds of wonderful 00:00:36.728 --> 00:00:41.487 things that you were born and superior, born and raised and superior and 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:45.996 uh graduated from a SU in political Science, which we always like to see 00:00:46.029 --> 00:00:50.597 our people. Go ahead and do great things. So you get extra points. Uh 00:00:50.630 --> 00:00:54.027 We'll change your grades. 00:00:54.060 --> 00:00:58.217 Thank you. And you might have had additional education at Georgetown, 00:00:58.250 --> 00:01:02.457 Princeton, Harvard. You've been around and done very well. How did you 00:01:02.490 --> 00:01:08.186 first become active in politics or when did you actually, I became 00:01:08.219 --> 00:01:11.236 interested in politics? Probably at an early age. I was writing letters to 00:01:11.269 --> 00:01:18.105 the editor for a small town paper. I was on student council. I was very 00:01:18.138 --> 00:01:22.147 involved as a kid and my parents always thought I was going to grow up to 00:01:22.180 --> 00:01:25.947 be a lawyer because I just like to argue. 00:01:25.980 --> 00:01:30.025 And then, but I really got involved in politics, believe it or not. Here 00:01:30.058 --> 00:01:33.846 on the campus of Arizona State, I got involved with the young Democrats. 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:40.385 It was an election year. People were getting volunteers on the mall to go 00:01:40.418 --> 00:01:46.826 door knocking on the weekends and I signed up, ended up walking. My first 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:53.236 campaign was for Jay Blanchard who was an, a su professor who ran for 00:01:53.269 --> 00:01:57.467 Senate out in Gilbert. And one because there was quite the controversy 00:01:57.500 --> 00:02:02.727 going around out there about alt fuels 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:09.297 and ended up getting involved really on the on campus in an elected 00:02:09.330 --> 00:02:11.596 politics. 00:02:11.629 --> 00:02:19.629 Yeah, I believe Jay ran in 2000 or 2002. And that, and he introduced me to 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.005 a good friend of his when I was, he was at the legislature was Harry 00:02:23.038 --> 00:02:26.335 Mitchell. I know that they were, I always would see them together. I know 00:02:26.368 --> 00:02:29.555 they were good friends. You worked with young Democrats. You were 00:02:29.588 --> 00:02:36.055 president and I was, we had a saying on campus was that if you showed up 00:02:36.088 --> 00:02:41.005 to two or more meetings, you were a leader. And because the meetings were 00:02:41.038 --> 00:02:45.916 always at the top of the m at 3 p.m. on Fridays mainly so that people 00:02:45.949 --> 00:02:50.126 right after the meeting could go to happy hour. And so we would, we would 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:56.255 , we would go there, we would meet and, and yeah, I ended up a year or two 00:02:56.288 --> 00:03:00.096 years. Into my experience with the young Democrats. I ended up the state 00:03:00.129 --> 00:03:07.906 president of the young Democrats of America. So basically at that time, it 00:03:07.939 --> 00:03:12.177 was the young Democrats usually based at a suu of a and a couple of 00:03:12.210 --> 00:03:17.896 community colleges. So it was quite the experience. It opened a lot of 00:03:17.929 --> 00:03:21.616 doors for me. I would not be in politics right now if it wasn't for the 00:03:21.649 --> 00:03:26.505 young Democrats and the youth activism on campus with the Arizona 00:03:26.538 --> 00:03:29.335 Democratic Party as political director for a number of years with four 00:03:29.368 --> 00:03:34.156 years. Yeah. And that was actually kind of stumbled into that. I ended up 00:03:34.189 --> 00:03:38.797 doing the legislative internship through a su down at the legislature for 00:03:38.830 --> 00:03:44.005 a semester. And that was a great time. That was when the legislature or 00:03:44.038 --> 00:03:49.406 the State Senate was 1515 split. So Democrats had to work with Republicans 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:56.166 and vice versa. All the committees were split and it did make for more of 00:03:56.199 --> 00:04:00.827 a policy learning environment instead of a political environment because 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:04.696 people had to work with each other. And I ended up a good friend of mine 00:04:04.729 --> 00:04:08.886 worked at the state Party and I would go up there for lunch every once in 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.906 a while when I was at the legislature and a job came up and they were like 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:17.156 , would you want to work here after you leave the legislature? That would 00:04:17.189 --> 00:04:23.296 be great. Ended up at the Arizona Democratic Party as a working on data 00:04:23.329 --> 00:04:29.007 entry and rose I was fortunate to rise quickly and become political 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:34.137 director. When did you first meet Harry and get involved with Blanchard? 00:04:34.170 --> 00:04:38.616 You said it was because when I went down for the legislature, legislative 00:04:38.649 --> 00:04:42.495 internship through ASU 00:04:42.528 --> 00:04:47.976 one of the first, they gather the interns and basically have once a month 00:04:48.009 --> 00:04:53.387 meetings or brown bag lunches with a senator. And I worked with Democratic 00:04:53.420 --> 00:04:58.717 staff. So they had, they would bring one of the Democrats to come and have 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:04.877 lunch with interns. And the very first lunch was with Harry Mitchell. And 00:05:04.910 --> 00:05:10.976 I remember him asking me specifically, what brought you down here? What's 00:05:11.009 --> 00:05:17.536 your interest in politics? And I told him my activism had actually worked 00:05:17.569 --> 00:05:23.836 on his campaign just as a volunteer in 2000. I never met him. But, and he 00:05:23.869 --> 00:05:28.637 , his response was don't come down to the legislature, stay in the cities 00:05:28.670 --> 00:05:34.757 , the cities treat you better and it's much nicer. So it was kind of funny 00:05:34.790 --> 00:05:39.236 because I was just shocked like, well, thank you Senator for your candor. 00:05:39.269 --> 00:05:42.765 He was like, I'm serious because, you know, when I was mayor and he went 00:05:42.798 --> 00:05:48.447 on talking about the city of Tempe. But uh I think uh he taught me 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.697 something there. And at that point, we just kind of stayed in touch and 00:05:52.730 --> 00:05:55.555 his good friend Jay Blanchard because I had worked on his campaign. Jay 00:05:55.588 --> 00:06:00.495 would come and get me from the basement at the state legislature talk 00:06:00.528 --> 00:06:05.546 politics because he knew he could and they were good friends. So it kind 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:09.745 of just went from there. He was 00:06:09.778 --> 00:06:16.507 a mayor of, I think that's deep in him. Yes, that is what has pretty much 00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:24.067 defined him made him kind of who he is today. He has, he wore multiple 00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:28.416 hats. He was mayor while he was a teacher at Tempe High. But his 00:06:28.449 --> 00:06:32.245 interactions and having to deal with everyday problems from trash pick up 00:06:32.278 --> 00:06:37.616 to whether or not you have a street light on your street. He learned his 00:06:37.649 --> 00:06:42.096 interaction and staying in touch with the community by being mayor. 00:06:42.129 --> 00:06:46.116 Essentially when he got to Congress, he wanted to treat it as he was the 00:06:46.149 --> 00:06:53.476 mayor of the congressional district. And that was probably what was the 00:06:53.509 --> 00:06:58.846 baseline of what we built from was how do we become the mayor of the 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:05.336 congressional district five? Because that's what Harry wanted to do that 00:07:05.369 --> 00:07:11.346 he was, you were at the state party when he became chair? Yes. So you 00:07:11.379 --> 00:07:17.486 reconnected there. Yes, I tried to talk him out of it. I didn't think he 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.627 was going to like it because he's not, he's never really been a partisan 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:24.947 guy. He was, you know, he had friends on both sides of the aisle and he 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:30.015 was asked to run for chairman. He was termed out of the State Senate and 00:07:30.048 --> 00:07:34.526 he thought it would be a fun thing to do and there's fun parts. But then 00:07:34.559 --> 00:07:39.805 there's also the, you know, he was going to have to be uh a partisan guy 00:07:39.838 --> 00:07:46.416 at that point. And despite my best efforts, he decided he wanted to serve 00:07:46.449 --> 00:07:51.387 in that capacity and it turned out great. I mean, I had been there a while 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:54.745 so I was just like, are you sure this is something for you because you're 00:07:54.778 --> 00:08:00.026 not, you know, a fire breather? And he was like, no, you know, I, I 00:08:00.059 --> 00:08:04.476 believe in this and he wanted to somehow continue to serve even after he 00:08:04.509 --> 00:08:08.536 left the legislature. So he ended up becoming the chair of the Democratic 00:08:08.569 --> 00:08:16.086 Party. He didn't say that long. He decided to run for the office. 00:08:16.119 --> 00:08:21.705 It was quite funny because during that time, it was all the Abramoff 00:08:21.738 --> 00:08:26.286 dealings and a lot of stuff that was going on in Washington. And I 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:30.947 specifically remember one of the news channels here in Phoenix went to his 00:08:30.980 --> 00:08:34.275 house because he couldn't get down to Phoenix for whatever reason to 00:08:34.308 --> 00:08:37.936 interview him because he was chair of the party or chair of the Democratic 00:08:37.969 --> 00:08:44.775 Party and asked him, what are the Democrats going to do with regard to 00:08:44.808 --> 00:08:50.307 Congressman Hayworth? And we still have this on tape and we tease him 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:54.515 constantly. He was standing out there and he was like, well, what we're 00:08:54.548 --> 00:08:56.807 going to do is we're going to go out and find the best candidate, we're 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:01.976 going to run him and we're going to win. Not anyone thinking at that time 00:09:02.009 --> 00:09:07.427 that that candidate would be Harry. Yeah. So he was, and we sort might 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:10.446 remember when you, you know, we were talking to the channel 12 or whatever 00:09:10.479 --> 00:09:14.787 , uh, news station it was and you said you're gonna go out and recruit a 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:19.625 candidate and he was like, I did, I recruited the best one. So it, it's 00:09:19.658 --> 00:09:23.486 quite funny. It's a very funny story. A lot of people thought that was a 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:28.236 hopeless cause that was really uphill. Uh The district described the 00:09:28.269 --> 00:09:36.096 district at that time, it was 17 point advantage Republican district. Um 00:09:36.129 --> 00:09:39.866 But given, given the demographics of the district, given Tempe Scottsdale 00:09:39.899 --> 00:09:46.566 , Awai. Um it's a moderate district in comparison to where you look 00:09:46.599 --> 00:09:52.696 outside and in or around Arizona in terms of who actually lives here. What 00:09:52.729 --> 00:09:58.467 are their politics that goes beyond a party label? And we knew that which 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:05.505 was quite funny because when all the stuff was happening with Congressman 00:10:05.538 --> 00:10:10.635 Hayworth and everyone had always, you know, he always had a target on him 00:10:10.668 --> 00:10:16.667 opposition wise, but no one thought they could ever beat him. And so there 00:10:16.700 --> 00:10:24.025 was a poll done early on which was done by folks in Arizona to try to 00:10:24.058 --> 00:10:29.385 recruit someone to run, to say it was possible because given the 00:10:29.418 --> 00:10:34.625 demographic make up of the district, even with such a partisan 00:10:34.658 --> 00:10:39.467 registration advantage on the other side, that, you know, to show that it 00:10:39.500 --> 00:10:44.677 was possible in the numbers and it came back that the strongest candidate 00:10:44.710 --> 00:10:51.326 was Harry Mitchell and uh, they tested that poll tested Harry, it tested 00:10:51.359 --> 00:10:56.015 the mayor of Scottsdale at the time who was a Democrat. It tested um, a 00:10:56.048 --> 00:11:02.356 candidate for Mayor Greg Stanton and the one that came on top and it has 00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:07.206 to be because of his, his service to the community and him being mayor for 00:11:07.239 --> 00:11:11.145 so long, it showed that Harry could beat Hayworth by, it showed Harry he 00:11:11.178 --> 00:11:15.375 beating Hayworth by two points. We were, it was like November before even 00:11:15.408 --> 00:11:21.510 anyone thought of anything. And it was uh Harry, Harry hadn't seen it. So 00:11:21.543 --> 00:11:26.292 it was quite interesting and I, I was just proud because I was like, who 00:11:26.325 --> 00:11:31.711 was, it was a poll commissioned by the Arizona Democratic Party used as a 00:11:31.744 --> 00:11:36.880 recruitment tool to say that there was a chance in this district and 00:11:36.913 --> 00:11:42.000 basically to find out who best would represent, you probably knew. But 00:11:42.033 --> 00:11:45.000 what was it about Harry that made him stand out and that, you know, 00:11:45.033 --> 00:11:51.346 honestly, it had to be name ID. It had to be people being familiar with 00:11:51.379 --> 00:11:57.496 Harry because he was on the council and mayor forever. He has a 36 ft 00:11:57.529 --> 00:12:03.836 statue of himself outside of city hall so that I'm sure that had to help, 00:12:03.869 --> 00:12:08.366 couldn't have hurt. But he had, he had built a reputation. He had built a 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:15.287 career in, in the center of that district. So it was kind of a no brainer. 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:19.547 He had been in office. He was turned out he was looking for something to 00:12:19.580 --> 00:12:24.505 do became chairman of the Democratic Party. And so 00:12:24.538 --> 00:12:27.976 finally, when approached, and it was funny because we were actually in the 00:12:28.009 --> 00:12:33.986 social science building in the atrium, we were doing, the Democratic Party 00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:37.946 was putting on a, 00:12:37.979 --> 00:12:42.946 a training session for precinct committee people and how to go knock doors. 00:12:42.979 --> 00:12:46.807 Very basic type of training. And Harry and I were sitting outside on one 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:51.226 of the park benches and he was signing baseballs because that was, if you 00:12:51.259 --> 00:12:53.537 got something right, he'd throw you a baseball and it was signed by the 00:12:53.570 --> 00:13:00.765 chairman of the party. So it was just cool. And I asked him, uh, so what 00:13:00.798 --> 00:13:04.145 do you think? What are you thinking? What's going on in your head? He goes 00:13:04.178 --> 00:13:08.755 , well, Rahm Emanuel called me and asked me, you know, if I would think 00:13:08.788 --> 00:13:14.525 about it and I'm like, I know. So, are you going to do it? He's like, yeah. 00:13:14.558 --> 00:13:20.096 Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it. Not breaking stride. Continue. Yeah, very 00:13:20.129 --> 00:13:24.206 nonchalantly still signing baseballs. And I'm like, wait a minute, put 00:13:24.239 --> 00:13:27.807 down the ball. Are you really, are you really going to do it? He was like 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:34.436 , yeah, why not? He goes, I know I can, I can beat him. You know, I have, 00:13:34.469 --> 00:13:40.797 I know this district I grew up here. He goes, yeah, I could do it. He 00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:45.895 never lost his confidence. And, uh, and he was 66 at the time thinking 00:13:45.928 --> 00:13:50.446 about running for Congress. I asked him, have you talked to Mary Anne, his 00:13:50.479 --> 00:13:55.986 wife? Because now I'm gonna go talk to her this evening when I'm done here 00:13:56.019 --> 00:13:59.946 and I just started laughing like, wow, ok, so you're ready for Congress? 00:13:59.979 --> 00:14:07.346 He just made up his mind by himself. And that was it. He had, he had told 00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:11.971 me later on that he had always thought about running for Congress but 00:14:12.004 --> 00:14:18.500 never really thought hard enough or give it serious thought to actually 00:14:18.533 --> 00:14:24.042 jump in. But I think he will also say that he might not have known what he 00:14:24.075 --> 00:14:28.971 was getting into because all his campaigns were ran pretty much in the 00:14:29.004 --> 00:14:34.682 heart of Tempe. Everybody had known him and it was going to be a much more 00:14:34.715 --> 00:14:39.846 difficult campaign, a campaign in which people didn't think he was going 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:45.047 to be tough enough because they always knew him as good old Harry Harry, 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.566 that good old Harry 00:14:48.599 --> 00:14:54.765 nice guy would give you the shirt off his back type guy. So, yeah, it was 00:14:54.798 --> 00:14:58.946 the big concern I heard when I was and I was still at the state party at 00:14:58.979 --> 00:15:03.726 that time. Part of my job was also to go out and identify and recruit 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:09.596 candidates as a political director. And biggest criticism was, well, will 00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:15.196 Harry, you know, get mean, will Harry have the, the skin for it? You know 00:15:15.229 --> 00:15:19.206 , Harry's too nice of a guy. He's going up against JD Hayworth and JD 00:15:19.239 --> 00:15:25.106 Hayworth is, you know, he fights hard, will, will Harry do the same. And, 00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:29.186 you know, quite honestly, and I told him the same thing, you know, will 00:15:29.219 --> 00:15:35.037 you, I knew him too as you know, Harry, the teacher, Harry, the mayor, 00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:42.139 good, nice guy who, you know, I could never see him going for the jugular. 00:15:42.729 --> 00:15:44.729 He didn't. No, I mean, he, he, he gave as good as he took in that sense. 00:15:52.830 --> 00:15:58.807 It was a great campaign. The people that ended up on that there, four of 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:05.005 us actually on paid staff during that first campaign and we didn't need to 00:16:05.038 --> 00:16:10.936 hire other people just because Harry came with this army of volunteers and 00:16:10.969 --> 00:16:17.236 people that had worked on his very first campaign, he just had flip a 00:16:17.269 --> 00:16:21.157 switch and made phone calls and all of a sudden people just showed up and 00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:26.836 , you know, we heard all of the, you know, Harry, this is great that he's 00:16:26.869 --> 00:16:31.696 doing this. At least we have someone running against Hayworth, but 00:16:31.729 --> 00:16:35.866 probably not until the last three months of the campaign that people 00:16:35.899 --> 00:16:42.135 really believe like Harry could actually pull us off. So it was a good one. 00:16:42.168 --> 00:16:48.057 Did the Arizona Republic's endorsement make a difference. I do think that 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:52.395 in those last days they were running neck and neck in the polls. We had 00:16:52.428 --> 00:16:57.746 internal polls showing neck and neck literally within the margin of error 00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:02.356 and there was public polls that said the same thing. So at the, at the 00:17:02.389 --> 00:17:10.389 very end with the Republican endorsement. Um, more of it just to be, 00:17:11.098 --> 00:17:16.305 they totally beat up Hayworth and, you know, for the most part, the 00:17:16.338 --> 00:17:21.045 congressman at the time deserved it. He got a little complacent and I do 00:17:21.078 --> 00:17:28.627 think that it did at the last minute, pushed us over the edge. We won by 00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:36.555 8023 votes. So I think that yes, it's like 8023 if I remember correctly 00:17:36.588 --> 00:17:42.357 and it did help. It certainly didn't hurt. I understand that the editorial 00:17:42.390 --> 00:17:47.555 board, meaning that Hayworth did not look very July. I can put it that way 00:17:47.588 --> 00:17:53.825 , but some people were shocked at his behavior there. Yes. And we, Harry 00:17:53.858 --> 00:17:58.696 was very prepared for all his 00:17:58.729 --> 00:18:03.516 meetings with Hayworth, whether there are debates or the board, the board 00:18:03.549 --> 00:18:09.285 we prepared quite a bit for because Congressman Hayworth is very, I mean, 00:18:09.318 --> 00:18:15.847 he is sharp, he's very sharp, he knows his issues, but he's very 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.867 aggressive. So it was making sure that Harry didn't, you know, we didn't 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:23.426 want Harry to get clobbered, so he was ready for it. But the interesting 00:18:23.459 --> 00:18:29.377 thing about the Republican, the Republican editorial board was I remember 00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:31.686 Harry coming back to the campaign office and I was like, that was just the 00:18:31.719 --> 00:18:36.926 weirdest thing ever. He was sitting there and he said that he was 00:18:36.959 --> 00:18:42.736 literally right next to him just staring at him trying to intimidate him. 00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:44.785 And so we were like, well, what did you do? He goes, well, nothing. You 00:18:44.818 --> 00:18:48.867 know, I just kept talking and, you know, he, he goes, it was, I almost 00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:54.686 feel his breath on me and it was noticed it was very much noticed by the 00:18:54.719 --> 00:19:01.357 board and, uh, and they took note of that in there. Yes. 00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:05.996 And he was definitely trying to bully Harry, trying to intimidate him 00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:10.867 during that board. I mean, he did it with, when Harry ran, he got support 00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:16.825 of former donors of Hayward because Harry has a lot of Republican support 00:19:16.858 --> 00:19:22.075 because of all his years on the council and there was intimidation put 00:19:22.108 --> 00:19:26.706 upon those donors as well, but they stuck with Harry because they've 00:19:26.739 --> 00:19:30.946 basically known him forever and his kids grew up. So he won and you got a 00:19:30.979 --> 00:19:35.426 staff position first as a district director where you're going to make him 00:19:35.459 --> 00:19:38.565 mayor of the district was that established at that time when you were 00:19:38.598 --> 00:19:45.075 there. That was the goal, the goal, it was probably a couple of months in 00:19:45.108 --> 00:19:51.795 , ended up having a staff retreat to figure out how it is. We were going 00:19:51.828 --> 00:19:57.627 to run the offices, we came out and all the DC staff came out to Tempe. 00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:02.877 And that was the goal. The main thing that Harry conveyed was, you know, I 00:20:02.910 --> 00:20:09.805 have 30 almost 30 years of service to this district. I'm not changing my 00:20:09.838 --> 00:20:16.486 style. So, you know, whether I go to Washington or I'm here, I I need to 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:22.426 be me. So it was you know, how do you keep Harry Harry? And by keeping 00:20:22.459 --> 00:20:26.351 Harry, Harry was ok. Well, then you're the, the district and we were 00:20:26.384 --> 00:20:32.791 setting out to set up a constituent service plan and strategy to ensure 00:20:32.824 --> 00:20:38.842 that to make sure that he was always accessible. I mean, he came back 00:20:38.875 --> 00:20:44.301 every weekend and every Saturday he was at Costco. Everybody knew he was 00:20:44.334 --> 00:20:49.272 at Costco. None of that could change. And, you know, as much as 00:20:49.305 --> 00:20:53.996 congressional staffers want to staff the, the congressman or staff the 00:20:54.029 --> 00:20:59.545 principal and make sure that they don't misspeak or say this or say that 00:20:59.578 --> 00:21:06.565 that's wrong or can be misconstrued. Harry had, he had no desire for any 00:21:06.598 --> 00:21:10.617 of that. So it was Keith Harry, Harry, how did he do that? Mayor of the 00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:15.196 district? Visibility up in the district? But what could he do? I mean, 00:21:15.229 --> 00:21:18.906 could he just listen if the policy thinks he was getting or was it 00:21:18.939 --> 00:21:25.305 complaints or? Oh, it ranged the gamut actually, it was everything from, 00:21:25.338 --> 00:21:32.416 hey, Harry, I think this is wrong or hey, Harry, you're terrible to, hey 00:21:32.449 --> 00:21:36.006 Harry, keep doing what you're doing. And it was always interesting and it 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:41.226 was our Costco focus group. We used to call it because Harry would go to 00:21:41.259 --> 00:21:46.877 Costco and hear every different point of view. And this is the Costco in 00:21:46.910 --> 00:21:54.266 Tempe which basically gets Tempe awa, you know, so he had a good focus 00:21:54.299 --> 00:21:59.717 group in that sense. And yeah, it ranged the gamut and people still, you 00:21:59.750 --> 00:22:03.137 know, they would come to him even with city issues. Like, well call my son 00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:07.617 or call City Hall, you know. Yeah, I can't, I can't do anything about that. 00:22:07.650 --> 00:22:11.717 You need, you know, you need to call City Hall. Um, so it, it, it ranged 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:14.526 , 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.137 I was just thinking, you see these meetings now and they're so contentious 00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:23.085 and angry and you almost don't want to have them anymore. And I even think 00:22:23.118 --> 00:22:26.696 Harry got to that point during the campaign. 00:22:26.729 --> 00:22:33.535 He had his first, his first term. He was everywhere. We had these Congress 00:22:33.568 --> 00:22:38.016 on your corners very similar to what 00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:42.597 Gabby and Harry went in at the same time. 00:22:42.630 --> 00:22:46.815 So every weekend and we communicated with her office quite a bit just 00:22:46.848 --> 00:22:53.045 because they were freshmen in Congress at the same time, they were both in 00:22:53.078 --> 00:23:01.078 moderate districts with Republican registration advantage. So he had a lot 00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:06.785 of public events, a lot of congress on your corners. And then it was right 00:23:06.818 --> 00:23:14.818 around August of 2009 when the health care debate came up and it got, he 00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:21.335 still continued probably into March February March of next year. But it 00:23:21.368 --> 00:23:29.368 got dangerous. I mean, we got, we got threats called in. Um, there were 00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:34.585 threats called in, I believe to, I don't know if it was Mark's office at 00:23:34.618 --> 00:23:39.016 City Hall but Mark his son who was on the council at his house got some 00:23:39.049 --> 00:23:44.446 phone call. Mary Anne Harry still has a published number. So he'd, he'd 00:23:44.479 --> 00:23:47.085 get phone calls at the house and it was Mary Anne who was fielding him 00:23:47.118 --> 00:23:53.045 while he was in DC. And it was just, it was not from a congressional 00:23:53.078 --> 00:23:56.756 staffer point of view. It was a scary time and we want to protect the 00:23:56.789 --> 00:24:01.756 member at the same time as the chief of staff, I was worried about the 00:24:01.789 --> 00:24:06.156 staff and actually having them at those events where there could have been 00:24:06.189 --> 00:24:10.597 an altercation, which there were threats of. So, you know, we tried 00:24:10.630 --> 00:24:17.936 alternative means, whether it was telephone town hall or small smaller get 00:24:17.969 --> 00:24:21.217 togethers in neighborhoods where we would then send out postcards and your 00:24:21.250 --> 00:24:26.035 congressman is coming. But they weren't publicized so that it could issue 00:24:26.068 --> 00:24:32.236 was, it was the turning point. We'll get to that because I think the 00:24:32.269 --> 00:24:36.857 election and all of the problems that came up, 00:24:36.890 --> 00:24:44.156 you were a, I guess uh staff is extension of the personality and style of 00:24:44.189 --> 00:24:49.026 the, of the congress person. And so that you all try to be like Harry or 00:24:49.059 --> 00:24:54.206 at least follow his tone. We should have wore bracelets with the, what 00:24:54.239 --> 00:24:58.597 would Harry Mitchell do? But that was always kind of the thought of, well 00:24:58.630 --> 00:25:03.835 , how would Harry handle this? And it was mainly driven by the fact that 00:25:03.868 --> 00:25:09.835 he never wanted any one of his old friends or constituents or even 00:25:09.868 --> 00:25:13.877 students to think that he changed when he became a congressman and went to 00:25:13.910 --> 00:25:19.906 Washington. And that's why he, 6667 years old was coming back every single 00:25:19.939 --> 00:25:27.035 weekend. He was racked up the frequent flyer miles and he wanted people. 00:25:27.068 --> 00:25:32.696 And I think also he was concerned that if he stayed there, he would change. 00:25:32.729 --> 00:25:34.897 So 00:25:34.930 --> 00:25:39.097 kept the house and he had to come home and see the grandkids soccer games. 00:25:39.130 --> 00:25:45.026 And so it became everyone. Ok. How do we keep Harry, Harry? And it was 00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:49.936 very much ingrained in us. What would Harry do or would he do this? Does 00:25:49.969 --> 00:25:54.746 it sound like him and even the press releases and anything we sent out 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:59.127 from our offices very much sounded like him. It was folksy, 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:03.347 but that was him. 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:07.276 II, I have a question too that he was a little bit like Mr Smith goes to 00:26:07.309 --> 00:26:12.805 Washington with the movie, uh, where he was sort of 00:26:12.838 --> 00:26:19.097 innocent, wide eyed, thrilled to be, I think it's a product of him being a 00:26:19.130 --> 00:26:26.166 civics teacher at high. And he would have people come back to, you know, 00:26:26.199 --> 00:26:29.236 obviously we had people come back from Arizona to meet with him in his 00:26:29.269 --> 00:26:35.436 congressional office. But he made it a point if he knew who was coming in 00:26:35.469 --> 00:26:40.526 and they were from back home from TP Scottsdale, he would be like, ok, I 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:45.085 want to drop in, ok, what you have to be here or there. It's like, well, 00:26:45.118 --> 00:26:49.085 but I'm going to come by so make it, try to arrange it. So I can come by 00:26:49.118 --> 00:26:54.357 and any time there was kids in the office and if the bells rang, let's 00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:59.762 come to come with me and I'm gonna show you and everyone thought it was 00:26:59.795 --> 00:27:04.762 just great, obviously. But this was something that he loved to show people. 00:27:04.795 --> 00:27:09.101 Like, you know, there's much more to this. So I've taught this in books 00:27:09.134 --> 00:27:14.222 and had you in class, but let me really show you. And then when they asked 00:27:14.255 --> 00:27:18.160 him, how do you like it? I was like, it's not the way I taught it. And 00:27:18.193 --> 00:27:24.295 then he would go into what was wrong with it, but always still idealistic 00:27:24.328 --> 00:27:27.766 in the sense of, but this is why we need people to run and we need people 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:32.397 here so that we can make it better. It was a learning experience for him 00:27:32.430 --> 00:27:38.236 as well as definitely, that's something about campaigns too. I think you 00:27:38.269 --> 00:27:43.315 learn a lot during the campaign. At least I understand it. 00:27:43.348 --> 00:27:50.526 I looked at your uh job responsibilities and it was unending. I mean, I, 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:54.976 and I found this statement, I think you were the traffic cop and political 00:27:55.009 --> 00:28:01.026 compass compass for the Mitchell office. That's how you were described. Is 00:28:01.059 --> 00:28:05.656 that, is that accurate? Yeah, I think, you know, the job as a chief of 00:28:05.689 --> 00:28:13.406 staff can vary depending upon the member. Um And I saw my role as getting 00:28:13.439 --> 00:28:19.835 the best and the brightest in the office and I was a manager of the type 00:28:19.868 --> 00:28:25.107 that I wanted to hire people who were a lot more bright than me because I 00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:29.097 certainly don't know everything and if we can find the right mix of people 00:28:29.130 --> 00:28:35.426 , we would be successful. So I did see my role more as a traffic cop and 00:28:35.459 --> 00:28:41.847 making sure, you know, there wasn't any congestion, there wasn't any 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:48.246 accidents. And because of my, because growing up born and raised in 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:50.535 Arizona, 00:28:50.568 --> 00:28:55.696 I have my position at the Democratic Party. I felt like I had a good pulse 00:28:55.729 --> 00:29:01.887 of Arizona, in particular in the district. I went to A U I lived in the 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.805 district. So I felt like 00:29:05.838 --> 00:29:10.916 in consultation with the district staff once I left and went to Washington 00:29:10.949 --> 00:29:15.906 that we had a good kind of handle and then delivering the news of the 00:29:15.939 --> 00:29:19.006 congressman so that he could make whatever decisions he needed to make. 00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:23.117 And then once the traffic started to flow on his decision, making sure it 00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:28.426 flowed freely and correctly without any accidents. So that traffic cop is 00:29:28.459 --> 00:29:32.156 probably the best description. 00:29:32.189 --> 00:29:36.085 How did you divide up your functions or people have specific 00:29:36.118 --> 00:29:40.686 responsibilities and then you brought them together or? Yeah, I think 00:29:40.719 --> 00:29:47.097 Harry hand on hands on manager. No, he he's definitely was the visionary 00:29:47.130 --> 00:29:53.002 in the office. He said the tone and he very much from even his days as 00:29:53.035 --> 00:29:59.121 mayor, the city manager runs the city runs the staff with in in 00:29:59.154 --> 00:30:03.680 consultation with the mayor and council. So that was kind of ingrained in 00:30:03.713 --> 00:30:10.285 him. So he very much you take care of this and like a lot of politicians, 00:30:10.318 --> 00:30:18.318 they avoid conflict at all costs or try. And when you're in an office like 00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:24.877 ours, which was so many eyes were on it, not because of Harry, but because 00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:27.516 Harry got elected in a Republican district, therefore he always had a 00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:35.549 target on him. As a democrat, we knew that we had to, 00:30:36.368 --> 00:30:40.706 there was going to be some hard decisions. And Harry described it as 00:30:40.739 --> 00:30:45.766 walking kind of a double yellow line. He was taking hits from both sides. 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:52.825 So it was pretty much he made the decisions on policy and where we're 00:30:52.858 --> 00:31:00.217 going to go based upon his feelings in his district. And but for the most 00:31:00.250 --> 00:31:06.627 part, the operations of the office were staff driven. And when I went to 00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:09.906 Washington as chief of staff, I started in the district office as a 00:31:09.939 --> 00:31:16.186 district director and seven months in went to DC to become the chief of 00:31:16.219 --> 00:31:22.656 staff. And it was pretty much at that point, I wanted to make sure 00:31:22.689 --> 00:31:26.446 everyone knew what their roles were going to be. We pretty much defined 00:31:26.479 --> 00:31:32.377 them. The legislative director, I hired him once he was hired, he was 00:31:32.410 --> 00:31:36.295 hired for a reason, 00:31:36.328 --> 00:31:40.867 pretty much kind of empowered the staff and that's kind of how we ran. 00:31:40.900 --> 00:31:45.246 Everybody kind of knew what they were doing and everyone always had 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.256 access to Harry. You can go in his office because that's the way he wanted 00:31:49.289 --> 00:31:55.107 it free flow ideas. Anybody people suggested to you from other people who 00:31:55.140 --> 00:31:59.325 had some of them worked on the hill before. Yes. And for the most part, 00:31:59.358 --> 00:32:04.085 the core staff myself, 00:32:04.118 --> 00:32:08.647 Matt, who was our legislative director, Chris, who was Harry's kind of go 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:13.535 to fix it, administrative director 00:32:13.568 --> 00:32:21.568 and a couple of others. They were there from day one until we closed. So 00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:28.026 it was a really core staff and even, you know, on the hill, there's a lot 00:32:28.059 --> 00:32:36.059 of uh turnover and people, you know, going in and trying to do other 00:32:36.259 --> 00:32:41.016 things. But our problem in our office was that there was not a lot of 00:32:41.049 --> 00:32:45.075 turnovers. So there wasn't a lot of room for advancement because people 00:32:45.108 --> 00:32:50.256 stayed and they stayed because of Harry. Did you have discussion of issues 00:32:50.289 --> 00:32:57.825 and then sessions where you go back and forth? Yes. And it was quite 00:32:57.858 --> 00:33:00.097 lively 00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:06.026 where the legislative team, which would be the director and his staff, 00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:10.436 legislative assistants would we put time on Harry's schedule so that he 00:33:10.469 --> 00:33:15.196 knew that this was a discussion of whatever big issues of the day. For the 00:33:15.229 --> 00:33:18.335 most part, we knew where Harry was going to be on a lot of the issues just 00:33:18.368 --> 00:33:26.368 because of his record. But some of the big issues we debated the tarp bill 00:33:27.219 --> 00:33:34.226 , which is the bank bailout. There was quite a number of sessions on Harry 00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:38.936 would sit there in the middle. Ok, give me the facts. And then he want us 00:33:38.969 --> 00:33:45.766 to argue both sides and he would take information from everyone and he 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.762 wasn't that type of the, you know, the last person he talked to was that's 00:33:48.795 --> 00:33:52.502 what he took. He would just sit there and let it all soak in and kind of 00:33:52.535 --> 00:33:56.502 marinate. It was also frustrating for the staff because we wanted, we 00:33:56.535 --> 00:33:59.101 needed to know so we can write the constituent letter so we can get 00:33:59.134 --> 00:34:02.222 everything lined up. So once he took that vote, we'd be ready for a 00:34:02.255 --> 00:34:08.874 response. But he really sat there and took it in from everyone and then 00:34:08.907 --> 00:34:11.785 would make a decision then tell him. All right, this is what I'm gonna do. 00:34:11.818 --> 00:34:15.175 Did you, did you, did he open the door to anybody who wanted to talk to 00:34:15.208 --> 00:34:18.885 him? Any group or the regulars that came in? Well, you do have your 00:34:18.918 --> 00:34:22.945 regulars that do come in, um, bigger associations that visit Washington 00:34:22.978 --> 00:34:28.865 and, and have the various different meetings at different times of the 00:34:28.898 --> 00:34:33.155 year. But yeah, I mean, he pretty much had an open door policy again. He 00:34:33.188 --> 00:34:36.495 was the mayor. He knew that he had to come home and he would bump into 00:34:36.528 --> 00:34:40.905 someone who, you know, he never wanted to bump into someone and then they 00:34:40.938 --> 00:34:44.175 say I had a horrible experience through the office or I called and I 00:34:44.208 --> 00:34:48.217 couldn't get a response or, you know, I wanted to meet you but they said I 00:34:48.250 --> 00:34:53.345 couldn't. So in addition to all the meetings he had, we had a lot of 00:34:53.378 --> 00:34:56.325 meetings as staff, 00:34:56.358 --> 00:35:00.615 one on one in the district and even in DC, because pretty much anyone who 00:35:00.648 --> 00:35:07.026 wanted to meet with him got, got some time with him or his staff, I guess 00:35:07.059 --> 00:35:13.256 we could get on to some of the more political and policy issues. Did Harry 00:35:13.289 --> 00:35:18.497 object to being called a blue blue dog Democrat? Was that accurate? Was 00:35:18.530 --> 00:35:22.695 that appropriate for him or would you? Well, I do think actually it was 00:35:22.728 --> 00:35:27.276 appropriate because if you look at the make up of the blue dogs, it was 00:35:27.309 --> 00:35:31.916 very diverse. I mean, you have your Southern Democrats who are more 00:35:31.949 --> 00:35:36.956 conservative, but you also had a lot of Democrats in California who were 00:35:36.989 --> 00:35:43.736 blue dogs and it was mainly on fiscal issues. And I think it was an 00:35:43.769 --> 00:35:50.287 association with a group that did reflect some of his views, not all of 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:56.095 them. He also was born and raised in the city. So I think when it comes to 00:35:56.128 --> 00:36:02.217 issues of city governments of 00:36:02.250 --> 00:36:07.577 some more cultural conservative views, he didn't share with that group, 00:36:07.610 --> 00:36:14.905 but on fiscal matters, he did, he voted his district or he tried to vote 00:36:14.938 --> 00:36:20.816 and so he was, but when it came to health care was a voting, this district 00:36:20.849 --> 00:36:26.247 was that I would say yes because based upon the phone calls and the 00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:33.477 letters, the district was down the middle split and he was even approached 00:36:33.510 --> 00:36:39.845 by city council members and other elected officials of the opposite party 00:36:39.878 --> 00:36:44.836 in his district saying we need health care. They would never say publicly 00:36:44.869 --> 00:36:51.327 for fear of retribution. But he was approached by people who didn't 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:56.756 necessarily voice their position because it was a very contentious debate. 00:36:56.789 --> 00:37:01.727 It wasn't your typical water cooler conversation around the office 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:08.816 because it was so heated. But with regard to his voting record, he always 00:37:08.849 --> 00:37:14.356 said that his job title is his description. He was a representative, he 00:37:14.389 --> 00:37:19.467 was sent to represent his district. And so he very much thought that way 00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:24.385 when voting and you know, it's very interesting because Tempe is very 00:37:24.418 --> 00:37:29.396 different from Scottsdale. And you know, ATU is very different from Tempe. 00:37:29.429 --> 00:37:34.756 And so in his home base and everything he knew was in Tempe. So it did 00:37:34.789 --> 00:37:40.986 put him at odds with parts of the district but as a whole in particular 00:37:41.019 --> 00:37:45.666 with health care. Um and we did, we did a poll in the district during that 00:37:45.699 --> 00:37:51.796 time as well. The district was definitely split down the middle as to 00:37:51.829 --> 00:37:55.486 whether you vote for health care reform or you vote against it. And at the 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:00.206 end of the day, given that it was so divided 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:08.239 5050 he knew that he was sent to Congress to do something big and 00:38:09.289 --> 00:38:13.405 sometimes you do stuff people don't like. And that's kind of his, he would 00:38:13.438 --> 00:38:20.345 win and lose and he wanted to do something at the end of the day. It was, 00:38:20.378 --> 00:38:26.856 we had the discussion. You could not win. If you did this or not, you 00:38:26.889 --> 00:38:30.986 could decide whether or not you would win re election. And at the end of 00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:36.586 the day, he said, I didn't, I didn't come here for nothing and I'm a 00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:41.307 democrat and we need health care. That's what he said. So he went out and 00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:46.776 voted that way. He wanted to history who has got the side of history. This 00:38:46.809 --> 00:38:50.396 was something that had to be done. Yes, he was very much during the 00:38:50.429 --> 00:38:54.155 campaign. He was, he defended his position quite frequently and he didn't 00:38:54.188 --> 00:38:57.756 back down even though it looked at the time it was very unpopular to do 00:38:57.789 --> 00:39:04.425 that. And the were you getting sense of the tea party movement or any, any 00:39:04.458 --> 00:39:09.046 activity like that? And yes, eight and nine and that you're talking about 00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:15.316 the meetings being becoming less friendly. And at that point too, I mean, 00:39:15.349 --> 00:39:19.436 health care at the time to both parties are guilty of trying to stack the 00:39:19.469 --> 00:39:27.469 deck at a, at a town meeting. And during health care, it was easy to stack 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:32.747 the deck against health care. And a lot of people came out and at that 00:39:32.780 --> 00:39:37.416 point, it wasn't to hear about 00:39:37.449 --> 00:39:43.066 what was in the bill. It was because there was no interest by anyone who 00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:48.066 was showing up, but maybe two or three people out of a crowd of 50 to 75 00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:53.506 that actually went to find out more information if you went, you had your 00:39:53.539 --> 00:40:00.666 mind made up. So then it was just a forum for argument with no real 00:40:00.699 --> 00:40:04.425 resolution. And at a certain point too, I think as staff, we came to a 00:40:04.458 --> 00:40:10.077 point of what we're doing is basically setting up almost a free for all. 00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:14.345 And it's not necessarily more concern for the congressman or his safety, 00:40:14.378 --> 00:40:19.595 but people would get up and we saw this would argue with each other and it 00:40:19.628 --> 00:40:24.546 was just, it was ugly to watch and it's very easy for that to get out of 00:40:24.579 --> 00:40:32.579 control. So it was, and I wouldn't put all the blame on the tea party, but 00:40:33.628 --> 00:40:37.445 they're certainly not shy about voicing their opinion. What about the SB 00:40:37.478 --> 00:40:43.695 1070 was that did that figure in somehow in the election? I think it 00:40:43.728 --> 00:40:49.327 figured in more of a mindset of Arizonans and 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:55.666 I don't know how I think people's minds were made up because that was 1070 00:40:55.699 --> 00:41:02.546 was signed in a law 23 months after health care was passed. So it was kind 00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:09.327 of adding on to the heap of controversial issues. But I do think that it 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:15.436 was an issue obviously that Harry was passionate about being a 00:41:15.469 --> 00:41:21.916 representative from Arizona and it was something that he spoke out against 00:41:21.949 --> 00:41:28.776 because of the, the he understood the intent and why people sought to do 00:41:28.809 --> 00:41:36.809 it. But I think the rhetoric was just so out of control and 00:41:37.878 --> 00:41:40.477 in that district, I assume as well as the rest of the state, there's this 00:41:40.510 --> 00:41:45.106 anti federal government kind of idea. You know, they, they're not doing 00:41:45.139 --> 00:41:49.885 their job and we are closing the border and, you know, sort of stick to it 00:41:49.918 --> 00:41:53.856 and it's very, it's very weird and Arizona politics is such a strange 00:41:53.889 --> 00:41:59.916 animal. It's great and this is why I love it, but, I mean, Arizona 00:41:59.949 --> 00:42:04.945 wouldn't exist without the federal government. So on one hand, you had 00:42:04.978 --> 00:42:10.727 during the bank bailout debate and what not you had, you know, 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:14.497 constituents basically saying you need to do this because our 400 ones are 00:42:14.530 --> 00:42:18.456 going to go down our stock, hold all our investments, you have to go in 00:42:18.489 --> 00:42:22.526 and do this. You need the government intervention at that point. But then 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:30.559 for other issues like, you know, we get the government off our backs and 00:42:32.378 --> 00:42:39.095 then 1070 what was going on during the election year in Arizona just added 00:42:39.128 --> 00:42:42.836 to that of the federal government is not doing its job, but we don't want 00:42:42.869 --> 00:42:46.925 the federal government but it's not doing its job. So it was very 00:42:46.958 --> 00:42:52.186 schizophrenic in, in that sense, was quite different in non election years 00:42:52.219 --> 00:42:56.537 than election years. Every year was an election year for us because of the 00:42:56.570 --> 00:42:59.365 district 00:42:59.398 --> 00:43:04.807 since 2000 early 2006, when Harry announced he was running for Congress, 00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:11.467 the election never stopped just because he won with a very small margin. 00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:16.356 We knew we were going to head into a tough re elect the re election, they 00:43:16.389 --> 00:43:22.256 say is always the toughest one. History wasn't on our side in 2008. From 00:43:22.289 --> 00:43:30.289 that perspective where a Democrat in the metro Phoenix area 00:43:30.860 --> 00:43:38.276 didn't get re elected. And there was Karen English, Sam Coppersmith. 00:43:38.309 --> 00:43:43.486 Sam went to seek a different office, but there was not someone who had 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:49.006 successfully won re election. So we were constantly on. Um And then 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:54.057 heading in at 10, it never really turned off eight. Wasn't that you did 00:43:54.090 --> 00:44:00.497 better, right. Yes. Yes. Yes, he won by almost 10 points. 10 points. Yeah. 00:44:00.530 --> 00:44:06.166 So that was, that was a good reflection on what they thought about his uh 00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:11.836 record for the first two years I thought uh and uh but you didn't become 00:44:11.869 --> 00:44:16.405 complacent with that, you just realize that you're gonna have to work in 00:44:16.438 --> 00:44:22.296 2010. It's much harder, but you faced the same guy. 00:44:22.329 --> 00:44:27.836 How come you could beat him by 10 and then lose that by product of the 00:44:27.869 --> 00:44:33.796 mood of the country. The country was angry and it was reflected all over 00:44:33.829 --> 00:44:37.017 the place including Arizona. 00:44:37.050 --> 00:44:44.546 It was lower but usually lower non presidential years. So it was, you know 00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:50.655 , our base as Democrats, they were less motivated than two years prior 00:44:50.688 --> 00:44:54.967 during the presidential election. And the other side was just a lot more 00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:03.000 fired up and motivated. So I do think that had it been a regular even hard 00:45:03.429 --> 00:45:10.146 fought election year without a wave, without that mood swing, mood swing 00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:13.517 that the country was in. Harry would still be in Congress. I have no doubt 00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:20.276 in my mind up until January February heading into the election year right 00:45:20.309 --> 00:45:26.247 before even during health care, Harry remained strong and above his 00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:29.595 competitors in polling, 00:45:29.628 --> 00:45:36.497 but there was a definite mood shift. And then on top of what is happening 00:45:36.530 --> 00:45:41.646 in the country, you have local politics. SB 1270 immigration debate in 00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:47.497 Arizona happening that fed into a base that was already motivated. So it 00:45:47.530 --> 00:45:54.345 wasn't a good year for Democrats. So you have to bring that in. But it 00:45:54.378 --> 00:45:59.385 seems that in a way, I guess I, I, if I were on the staff, I would think 00:45:59.418 --> 00:46:04.566 it's a tragic and uh it's uh it's something that I'm still trying to get 00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:12.057 over it. It's uh it's hard to take and, and uh it's uh I don't know, how 00:46:12.090 --> 00:46:14.885 do you, when you look back, how do you, that was certainly the low point. 00:46:14.918 --> 00:46:18.896 But um what was the high point? What, what was accomplished or what, what 00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:24.467 , what are you most proud of in that, that service in that time? You know 00:46:24.500 --> 00:46:32.385 , I think uh I'll look at it two different ways personally. I think what 00:46:32.418 --> 00:46:38.566 was one of our greatest accomplishments, was assembling a team around 00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:44.155 Harry who were entirely, 00:46:44.188 --> 00:46:49.247 you know, drank the Harry Mitchell Kool aid that were just solidly behind 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:54.376 him and wanted to see him succeed. He always said, you know, in order for 00:46:54.409 --> 00:46:58.175 a person to be successful, a whole lot of other people want them to be. 00:46:58.208 --> 00:47:02.307 And it very much kind of embodied who we were as a staff. We didn't have a 00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:08.787 lot of turnover because people stayed because of him. We had certain drama 00:47:08.820 --> 00:47:15.396 as any staff would, especially in such a kind of high pressure environment. 00:47:15.429 --> 00:47:21.126 But for the most part, people would lay down their swords in the overall 00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:24.876 cause which was serving Harry so that he could serve his district. He just 00:47:24.909 --> 00:47:29.925 kind of inspired that in the staff. So I think one of the biggest 00:47:29.958 --> 00:47:35.106 accomplishments for us was to keep that intact the entire time and make 00:47:35.139 --> 00:47:40.456 sure that we reflected him because we didn't want in two years or four 00:47:40.489 --> 00:47:48.489 years for to do any damage to his reputation back home. We were all very 00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:54.675 cognizant of the man who had a statue in his hometown and just who he was. 00:47:54.708 --> 00:47:58.345 So that was a major accomplishment. I think just as a congressional 00:47:58.378 --> 00:48:01.796 office and what the congressman was able to do. I think we're all very 00:48:01.829 --> 00:48:09.829 proud of the work we did in supporting his desire to service veterans. He 00:48:12.889 --> 00:48:17.445 wasn't a fan or 00:48:17.478 --> 00:48:22.557 supporter of the interventions we were having overseas Iraq and 00:48:22.590 --> 00:48:26.135 Afghanistan. The only way that he could, 00:48:26.168 --> 00:48:29.717 Phil himself kind of entered the debate without being highly controversial 00:48:29.750 --> 00:48:33.686 was OK. Well, then what are we doing for folks when they come back? And 00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:38.506 that was him being a teacher thinking, well, we need to give these kids an 00:48:38.539 --> 00:48:44.537 education. We need to make sure that the G I Bill was outdated and we need 00:48:44.570 --> 00:48:50.217 to make sure that it can service them and their families. We're asking for 00:48:50.250 --> 00:48:55.936 extraordinary sacrifices and what are we doing for them when they get back 00:48:55.969 --> 00:49:02.296 ? So that became a real passion for him. And was that something he 00:49:02.329 --> 00:49:08.675 developed when he got there when he got there, he got a seat on, on the 00:49:08.708 --> 00:49:14.436 Veterans Committee. And I also think because two, there was a, I mean, 00:49:14.469 --> 00:49:20.396 Arizona has a high population of veterans. So it was, it seemed a natural 00:49:20.429 --> 00:49:25.905 fit and that he, he sought it out and they actually made him then a 00:49:25.938 --> 00:49:32.365 subcomittee chair. And, you know, it's not a glamorous committee. You 00:49:32.398 --> 00:49:36.736 don't, you know, you don't, 00:49:36.769 --> 00:49:41.807 I say you don't, uh, 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:47.916 it's a lot of work that people don't pay attention to only something bad 00:49:47.949 --> 00:49:53.905 happens. Do they do a story on the news or, you know, they see someone in 00:49:53.938 --> 00:49:57.936 a wheelchair and it's unfortunate and he always thought it was unfortunate 00:49:57.969 --> 00:50:03.977 that, you know, that's the way it was. So his job he saw also in kind of 00:50:04.010 --> 00:50:10.115 protest to what was happening was ok. Well, then, you know, we sent him to 00:50:10.148 --> 00:50:14.706 war, but we don't take care of him when we get back. And, you know, it's 00:50:14.739 --> 00:50:19.376 that's not, that's not who we are as a country. So he, he developed that 00:50:19.409 --> 00:50:25.155 passion when he got there. And he, he, he, he also even said, you know, 00:50:25.188 --> 00:50:27.717 when I was teaching at Tempe High, I knew a lot of kids that went off to 00:50:27.750 --> 00:50:31.845 Vietnam and I taught these kids and they didn't come back and when they 00:50:31.878 --> 00:50:35.787 came back, some of them didn't come back. Right. 00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:40.666 So he was speaking from experience having seen the transition and now he 00:50:40.699 --> 00:50:47.787 was in a position of power to help. And so it became a big part of his 00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:51.365 portfolio in Congress. And therefore the staff wanted to make sure he had 00:50:51.398 --> 00:50:55.916 everything that he needed to make the changes that he wanted to have. I 00:50:55.949 --> 00:51:00.956 forgotten anything that you want to say that we left out here. No, I think 00:51:00.989 --> 00:51:08.856 , I mean, I did talk a lot so I appreciate your comments. No, I think, I 00:51:08.889 --> 00:51:16.425 mean, you said and I agreed that, I mean, I took, I as his chief of staff 00:51:16.458 --> 00:51:22.456 , I had to talk to him and advise him in the good and the bad. There was 00:51:22.489 --> 00:51:26.675 times when he avoided me because usually I had to tell him something bad. 00:51:26.708 --> 00:51:29.666 There would, there would be some weeks where I'd see him on Monday when 00:51:29.699 --> 00:51:32.307 he got off the plane and wouldn't see him until Friday when he said I'm 00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:39.256 leaving because, you know, he knew that I had stuff for him to do and you 00:51:39.289 --> 00:51:45.557 know, I think that members of Congress, despite what their ideology is or 00:51:45.590 --> 00:51:53.590 party, they have to, a good portion of them have to work very hard. And 00:51:53.750 --> 00:51:59.115 for a guy who went in as the oldest freshman of his class to put in as 00:51:59.148 --> 00:52:02.276 much as he did, and he'll even say that he probably worked harder at this 00:52:02.309 --> 00:52:08.046 job than anything else, including preparing for teaching a class the next 00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:14.037 day. That, that it's really unfortunate to see where the country is right 00:52:14.070 --> 00:52:16.166 now. 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:21.956 And he also said the worst thing that worse than losing was probably 00:52:21.989 --> 00:52:27.376 winning because you have to be back there right now. But I think that it 00:52:27.409 --> 00:52:32.086 was quite an experience for me. This kid from superior ended up being a 00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:35.606 chief of staff or a member of Congress from Arizona. It was quite an 00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:41.686 experience for me and I'm very grateful that he worked his butt off to get 00:52:41.719 --> 00:52:48.106 there and I kind of went along for the ride. So he was a very special guy 00:52:48.139 --> 00:52:51.046 and I know a lot of people can say that about their bosses or that's why 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:55.095 they work for certain elected officials. But 00:52:55.128 --> 00:52:58.590 he has a statue for a reason.