WEBVTT 00:00:00.839 --> 00:00:04.787 Maybe 74. I don't know. I got the date over there. I tell you what it was. 00:00:04.820 --> 00:00:06.856 Anyway, 00:00:06.889 --> 00:00:10.406 he was going up to San Francisco. 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:16.686 She got some good in. He stopped at it twice 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:22.067 by Celia California and the doctor there, he became acquainted with the 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:25.817 doctor always told stop to goodbye. And he met my mother there who came 00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:28.087 out to California, 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:31.887 an uncle of hers told her that they did the school teachers. He was one of 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:37.885 the bands out there in the gold rush. She came over on the first 00:00:37.918 --> 00:00:43.967 one of the first trips made by the Central Pacific Union Pacific railroad. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.467 And she told me that Buffalo girls crossed the track twice. They had to 00:00:47.500 --> 00:00:51.195 stop. The train came from the east of California. She came, she was a 00:00:51.228 --> 00:00:58.176 native of Arkansas and uh she left school in Memphis and she was a school 00:00:58.209 --> 00:01:06.209 teacher. What was, what was her name? Do you remember? Davis S Davis. 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:08.926 Davis. 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:14.447 Davis was her name and she went from Arkansas to California on one of the 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:21.397 first uh Union Pacific trains. Was it? Yes. The very early train I say so 00:01:21.430 --> 00:01:24.346 early that there was still herds of buffalo that they had to stop the 00:01:24.379 --> 00:01:28.055 train and let them go across the track. She told me that occurred twice 00:01:28.088 --> 00:01:32.686 and the way you across the plains. Well, she taught school and, and she 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:39.066 was teaching in Visalia when, uh, my father stopped there any better and 00:01:39.099 --> 00:01:41.876 after a couple of years he persuaded to marry and they were married in 00:01:41.909 --> 00:01:44.186 1876. 00:01:44.219 --> 00:01:46.956 And, uh, 00:01:46.989 --> 00:01:52.867 the South Pacific railroad was completed then from San Francisco, South 00:01:52.900 --> 00:01:56.986 Los Angeles out about, 00:01:57.019 --> 00:02:01.286 you know, and they had to take the stage and come across there and then 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.467 these teams met him up. 00:02:05.500 --> 00:02:09.536 That's where I was born the following year. But then they came back to 00:02:09.569 --> 00:02:13.975 this place where he was going the mill. Is that what they called Hayden's 00:02:14.008 --> 00:02:17.835 ferry? Yes, he had, he had the bill and he also had a ferry boat across 00:02:17.868 --> 00:02:24.606 the river and the river was up. It was a cable like this. In order to ir 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:29.856 the old bull, you let it down this way and push it over and let it down 00:02:29.889 --> 00:02:33.936 the other way to push it back. I would stay on the cable on the cable, but 00:02:33.969 --> 00:02:38.805 you just put the bull at an angle and the car pushed it across or hold a 00:02:38.838 --> 00:02:44.047 team of horses, wagons and so on. So they could take free wagons, they 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.047 like that across, 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:53.327 but the force of the stream would take it across. That's right. So that's 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:58.916 where I was born when I was up to right of the time of my birth that I've 00:02:58.949 --> 00:03:05.005 been working on what he did. And I let you look at 00:03:05.038 --> 00:03:11.305 it. That was in 77. Was it 78 that you were born? 00:03:11.338 --> 00:03:14.936 And, uh, 1877 00:03:14.969 --> 00:03:19.696 which makes me 84 years old now. 00:03:19.729 --> 00:03:26.816 Um, well, what was Haiti's fry? Like at that time was just the, just the 00:03:26.849 --> 00:03:32.495 store and then the wide open spaces there. Well, then see he filed on the 00:03:32.528 --> 00:03:36.957 , on the four section of land where they, 00:03:36.990 --> 00:03:43.286 where they was and some other people, your body, you find that 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:48.876 were they home sites in those days? You had what they call a preemption 00:03:48.909 --> 00:03:54.267 law. I think you had to make certain improvements and then you get a 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:59.025 patent, easy to get a patent. 00:03:59.058 --> 00:04:04.505 So he pounded this 160 acres, part of it in the river and part of the town 00:04:04.538 --> 00:04:10.505 and acquired all the land where the town of Tee and the State University 00:04:10.538 --> 00:04:16.346 and all that. He owned all that area at the time. 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.447 When did they change it? When did they call it temporary? That was a good 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:27.480 year later on the band. 00:04:29.509 --> 00:04:32.627 Darryl Dupper. 00:04:32.660 --> 00:04:35.786 What's that? 00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:43.226 Either a graduate of Oxford or Cambridge? He was a, a British Remittance 00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:48.786 man. He, they send him money every now and then, England. Very brilliant. 00:04:48.819 --> 00:04:56.819 What was his last name? D Dup P ad DD Saint Clair. 00:04:59.238 --> 00:05:05.916 Yeah. D was a very brilliant fellow 00:05:05.949 --> 00:05:10.007 record. When he did his, he'd get all big drunk and things like that. But 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:16.645 he suggested the name of Phoenix because of the 00:05:16.678 --> 00:05:20.846 Indian ruins. Rather. He said it would rise from the ashes of the old, the 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.937 spirits of the vision and then the Tempe, he said it was a beautiful 00:05:24.970 --> 00:05:30.546 country like the vale of Tempe between Mount Osa about Olympus in Greece 00:05:30.579 --> 00:05:33.916 where the gods came down. 00:05:33.949 --> 00:05:38.416 Part 00:05:38.449 --> 00:05:43.866 suggested both names. He suggested both. 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:49.937 Well, they called it the Tempe Canal. Tempe and somebody suggested that 00:05:49.970 --> 00:05:53.705 I'd be better name the town. My father said, yes, take so much in to write 00:05:53.738 --> 00:05:56.296 as ha 00:05:56.329 --> 00:06:00.836 how far out of Phoenix is Tempe? Nine miles. I've been to Phoenix, but I 00:06:00.869 --> 00:06:07.887 don't think I ever saw. Tempe is just nine miles east and across the river. 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:13.096 I know we have a good team of trotters that take an hour when I was a boy 00:06:13.129 --> 00:06:18.116 to drive. 00:06:18.149 --> 00:06:25.317 How did you get out there in the open space? By the time I got old enough 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:30.245 to get to school, my mother was a school teacher and she was very much 00:06:30.278 --> 00:06:36.836 interest in establishing school and getting good teachers. So I went to a 00:06:36.869 --> 00:06:38.895 little 00:06:38.928 --> 00:06:46.928 one room, Adobe schoolhouse versus a small boy and then graduated, got out 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:52.366 of public school. And then in the meantime, I been established the a 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:58.817 little territorial law school there. They same legislature that 00:06:58.850 --> 00:07:04.507 established the University of Arizona, established this no school which 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:11.937 ultimately gave a college in the State University, the second State 00:07:11.970 --> 00:07:17.245 University, about 11,000 students. 00:07:17.278 --> 00:07:23.455 I went to, I graduated from normal school. And then my father heard about 00:07:23.488 --> 00:07:28.555 Stanford University that they had elective courses. He never had a use for 00:07:28.588 --> 00:07:35.296 that degree. That was a waste of time and so on. And I went up there with 00:07:35.329 --> 00:07:43.329 what credits I had and they had now 12 credits. I think I had eight. 00:07:43.548 --> 00:07:49.765 So they said you can enter but you have to make every hour every semester 00:07:49.798 --> 00:07:57.145 or to leave. So I picked courses that were particularly tall. I didn't 00:07:57.178 --> 00:08:01.046 think a degree for Latin or mathematics, anything like that. I took 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:09.079 history and economics. English, think about copy. But my chief ambition 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:16.906 was to development of a man has always been a spindler boy and I went to 00:08:16.939 --> 00:08:22.145 the gym there. I weighed 100 and £32 00:08:22.178 --> 00:08:27.476 went on the track and didn't do much good there, played football and uh I 00:08:27.509 --> 00:08:33.566 left there, I weighed over 100 and £80 old. That's uh I played, I was, how 00:08:33.599 --> 00:08:38.177 many years were you there? Four years. 00:08:38.210 --> 00:08:41.775 I didn't compete four years because 00:08:41.808 --> 00:08:46.196 I went home for Christmas. And my father died in January and I had to take 00:08:46.229 --> 00:08:51.417 over the, what year did you go to Stanford? Did you start? 696? 00:08:51.450 --> 00:08:59.450 I would be in the class in 1900 to see. But I went to December 99 and then 00:08:59.658 --> 00:09:02.797 and I went home, my father passed away and I had to take charge of the 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:07.356 visit. We had the flow. So last year you were there. 00:09:07.389 --> 00:09:12.427 Uh, how about the football? Was it much different then than it is just 00:09:12.460 --> 00:09:19.476 guards back tackle back? But no, no, no, no buckin around the ends. Just 00:09:19.509 --> 00:09:24.375 the biggest heaviest man knocked the other one down. Right. Did they have 00:09:24.408 --> 00:09:31.375 , did they have 11 men on the side? And that same as a, these are center 00:09:31.408 --> 00:09:39.408 guards tackled hands and fullbacks. What did you play? Center? I found out 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:44.667 that the way to get a long, there was to grab legs and let them fall on 00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:52.436 top of you. That's still a good way. I guess that is, you get in a pile 00:09:52.469 --> 00:09:59.706 and I get broke it up. Did they, did they play rival colleges up and down 00:09:59.739 --> 00:10:03.907 the whole? No, the only 00:10:03.940 --> 00:10:08.706 big game we had was the or of California? No, nothing but rail. All you 00:10:08.739 --> 00:10:14.436 couldn't travel distance. There were other colleges far away. So we would 00:10:14.469 --> 00:10:22.417 play games with the two athletic clubs in San Francisco and L in the 00:10:22.450 --> 00:10:26.047 Olympic club. One week we played the Olympics and the next week we play 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.096 the, in the University of California. The other way you see where these in 00:10:31.129 --> 00:10:34.557 San Francisco we play in San Francisco. There was enough interest in the 00:10:34.590 --> 00:10:40.807 game you see that they charge a mission and uh, yeah, clubs could get, 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:45.576 they didn't have any big stadiums, of course. Like they, no, no, they, 00:10:45.609 --> 00:10:50.515 they would have fairly decent field and grandstand and all that. And then 00:10:50.548 --> 00:10:55.807 you had showers where you could, 00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:00.275 uh, did you play any other sports at Stanford? And, well, I, I tried out 00:11:00.308 --> 00:11:07.467 for the track. My leg was short island. I was little short legged island. 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:14.797 See, I was 511 but from the waist up, plenty of eyes. But I have my legs 00:11:14.830 --> 00:11:20.657 are short, little short. I want to go on the track. 00:11:20.690 --> 00:11:24.885 You got to be a long metal follower. 00:11:24.918 --> 00:11:30.316 How my operation. Well, um then you came back when your father died that 00:11:30.349 --> 00:11:36.726 last year at college, you came back to, to take charge of the Billy and 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:42.807 Burger Deal business. Well, uh time were tough and I had a hell of a time 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:50.840 . I, I made up my mind there was no merchants or traders like he was so I 00:11:51.619 --> 00:11:57.515 consolidated the barbecue business and then I had an opportunity to rent 00:11:57.548 --> 00:12:05.548 the mill, uh a good figure. And so I did that and uh oh, we're going to 00:12:07.119 --> 00:12:12.025 run for sheriff. If they had said that you didn't care for, you didn't 00:12:12.058 --> 00:12:19.106 care for business very much. I think I, I thought you see it to be a 00:12:19.139 --> 00:12:24.755 merchant. You've got to know how to buy if you don't buy, right? You can, 00:12:24.788 --> 00:12:28.576 you don't make anything. It was one hand the other one was the credit 00:12:28.609 --> 00:12:33.557 business. So you had to trust the farm for a whole year. And if he got a 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:36.717 good pay and he did 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:43.717 all that, it was quite a gamble, a gamble. And I just figured out what, 00:12:43.750 --> 00:12:48.765 any good for that business and I better get out. So, 00:12:48.798 --> 00:12:55.265 as I said, I figured I'd be a sheriff. They just old had said you elect 00:12:55.298 --> 00:12:59.135 the counter creditor for term because we want Sam Stout. He defeat the 00:12:59.168 --> 00:13:04.515 Republican. He, he should be another term that next time it would be for 00:13:04.548 --> 00:13:08.467 you. And they were so 00:13:08.500 --> 00:13:16.186 my first real political experience was to go to the Democratic National 00:13:16.219 --> 00:13:22.537 Convention. I was elected a delegate to it 94 Saint Louis. And I know it 00:13:22.570 --> 00:13:29.456 is Brian. Was it Brian? No, Parker. Parker? Oh, yeah, they didn't get 00:13:29.489 --> 00:13:34.746 anywhere because he was on the gold standard, you remember? Oh, yeah. Well 00:13:34.779 --> 00:13:39.717 , did the parties permit the territories to send delegates in the 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:44.826 Conservatives have always just like we are now. Well, a big delegation, I 00:13:44.859 --> 00:13:52.859 think we 45, but just enough to represent it. I was one of them 00:13:53.538 --> 00:13:58.436 smart old lawyer down. You can smoke on me that I find him and then I'll 00:13:58.469 --> 00:14:03.706 be chairman, what he wanted. He was on the platform committee and I didn't 00:14:03.739 --> 00:14:10.557 know enough to know that he got sick one day. I remember the ST Louis 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:18.590 papers that strict with the heat. And so I didnt get on one session. I saw 00:14:18.700 --> 00:14:25.496 WJ Brian with his coat over his shirt sleeve. 00:14:25.529 --> 00:14:30.677 David B Hill. A lot of those old time Brian was in there too, wasn't he? 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:38.710 Brian was there? I got a chance to see that this old sets. 00:14:39.658 --> 00:14:45.967 That was the gold versus silver. The big question. That was it. They had a 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:54.000 kind of a part of this for the gold standard. He lost the election. 00:14:55.820 --> 00:15:01.816 Um, I read a clipping down in, down at the star which said that as a boy 00:15:01.849 --> 00:15:07.037 you read, I don't know how many volumes of R Pats History was that. I know 00:15:07.070 --> 00:15:11.395 my father, I was always a great reader of my father always thought the 00:15:11.428 --> 00:15:18.496 book and I did that. It was a red Past History of the World I read. Yeah. 00:15:18.529 --> 00:15:21.976 So that was why you were in a grade school and normal school, I guess. 00:15:22.009 --> 00:15:27.996 Well, when I was 1415 years old, I think I'd probably, 00:15:28.029 --> 00:15:35.265 he always subscribed to good magazines and uh he had quite a lot of books. 00:15:35.298 --> 00:15:41.775 He was a great reader himself. He had a way of always getting a book, but 00:15:41.808 --> 00:15:45.976 he was on his travels to see whether he have a long way to go. An 00:15:46.009 --> 00:15:54.009 ambulance, take a new book along with him and read it. You see, I remember 00:15:56.158 --> 00:16:01.547 an old man named Cho told me that my father was reading Draper's 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:09.580 intellectual development of yours. That was ok. And the, 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:14.826 the father and the driver in the ambulance 00:16:14.859 --> 00:16:21.807 c was falling along behind on a, for providing a particular color. You 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.476 were the Tucson and they were down in the static of the river bottom. He 00:16:26.509 --> 00:16:29.037 saw some 00:16:29.070 --> 00:16:32.537 and the arrow weeds there. So he thought, well, they might be in the past 00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:37.057 year. Learn. He took a shot at it and there was a big disturbance in there 00:16:37.090 --> 00:16:41.826 then. So he came in town, he told the Mexicans in town that he thought 00:16:41.859 --> 00:16:45.976 maybe he'd got an Indian and they went out there and it wasn't a dead 00:16:46.009 --> 00:16:51.866 Indian. They cut his head off and put on a pole in the town 00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:59.899 passage. You see it was Tucson of the Wall Town. Yes, they got it all that 00:17:00.173 --> 00:17:05.592 until we w around a small part of it that expanded before the store 00:17:05.625 --> 00:17:09.831 outside of it. Well, this was before he went up to the river. Oh, yes, 00:17:09.864 --> 00:17:16.460 long before. But I remember that particular title we had the book when I 00:17:16.493 --> 00:17:21.706 was a boy. Yeah. Is that so I think I read somewhere that you were born 00:17:21.739 --> 00:17:29.085 and is still standing out there. What he did? He came over to the 00:17:29.118 --> 00:17:34.906 street, Mill Avenue, the main street in Tempe 00:17:34.939 --> 00:17:39.956 and across the street, uh streets are over 100 ft wide than there. About 00:17:39.989 --> 00:17:46.996 100 degrees wide. He built a store, see, and then he built adjoining the 00:17:47.029 --> 00:17:55.029 store, adobe rooms where he lived and that became quite a place. Went up 00:17:55.818 --> 00:18:00.357 to the corner and down. It was a patio on the, inside the back of that was 00:18:00.390 --> 00:18:07.065 a bar and the back of that was a big grain warehouse on the places where 00:18:07.098 --> 00:18:13.746 the teams could, uh, take care of them 00:18:13.779 --> 00:18:16.906 when you were going to school. And growing up around there, you had to 00:18:16.939 --> 00:18:21.026 stay pretty close to home, I suppose. On account of the Indians, didn't 00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:27.976 you? Well, there, at the time I got all I know about the Apache business 00:18:28.009 --> 00:18:32.967 was seeing signal fires on the moon. 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.717 And I remember, 00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:41.137 I got a memory that when they captured her run animal. Oh, is that so? Yes 00:18:41.170 --> 00:18:47.256 , I remember that. And then I remember that General Miles came out and 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:50.717 they gave him a sword to Saul and then they came to Phoenix and they had 00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:56.347 to celebrate because he kept it to run. I remember that. 00:18:56.380 --> 00:19:01.717 But what I knew about the thing was that we had a big place there and 00:19:01.750 --> 00:19:05.075 there was always 00:19:05.108 --> 00:19:11.726 in the room for a guest. Old t would come and see friends of his that he 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:18.016 knew in Tucson or they'd stop overnight. I'd sit down there and listen to 00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:25.627 him talk, made me go to bed. But that way I heard a lot of things grow up 00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:32.916 about the pioneer conditions. Is that, is that still on? Do you, 00:19:32.949 --> 00:19:36.565 what, what do you suppose? What got you first interested in politics? 00:19:36.598 --> 00:19:39.666 Senator? What 00:19:39.699 --> 00:19:42.496 I just 00:19:42.529 --> 00:19:50.529 decided that, uh, the sheriff's office was paid off, well, paid fees. 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.785 But 00:19:53.818 --> 00:19:58.805 I want to be shareable. I start out and they told me to call the treasurer. 00:19:58.838 --> 00:20:06.446 I took that office. We paid in gold in those days. 00:20:06.479 --> 00:20:10.206 You didn't see so many greenbacks out there. Nobody liked greenbacks. And 00:20:10.239 --> 00:20:18.239 , oh, I remember, uh, and I was that year a man named John Phillips who 00:20:19.189 --> 00:20:24.236 after became governor of a Republican elected 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:26.956 probate judge. 00:20:26.989 --> 00:20:31.426 And uh, he was paid quarterly. 00:20:31.459 --> 00:20:37.696 So you got $200 a month. I shoved off $600 worth of $100 gold pieces 00:20:37.729 --> 00:20:43.647 underneath of modification. And he stood off and looked and said, is that 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.897 all my money? I said, yes, that's the most money I've had in my life. But 00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:53.246 we, we paid gold. That's when you were county treasurer got a treasurer. 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:59.236 But then two years after that, I was like, she, I served that term. What 00:20:59.269 --> 00:21:06.406 year was that? I mean, you were elected chair. I was elected 94 treasure 00:21:06.439 --> 00:21:14.439 96. She and the director there. I get that then re-elected in 98. And then 00:21:17.180 --> 00:21:24.065 that would make in 1910 or 1910, they had passed a bill off to the state 00:21:24.098 --> 00:21:30.887 of terror of Arizona City. And that bill carried everybody over. 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.097 So all together, I served 00:21:34.130 --> 00:21:38.377 245, 00:21:38.410 --> 00:21:43.617 at least four years. I, there are more than four 00:21:43.650 --> 00:21:46.946 you served until you went and came to congress. You must have heard what I 00:21:46.979 --> 00:21:54.325 had to do. Stay there until I 00:21:54.358 --> 00:21:57.756 carry over. All the county officials 00:21:57.789 --> 00:22:05.147 was anticipating statehood. And um but then they, then they have a state 00:22:05.180 --> 00:22:09.535 constitution to operate under I was a delegate, democratic rights in 94 00:22:09.568 --> 00:22:17.568 like Trade America in 94 sheriff, 96 again in 98 and ma is head of the 00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:25.065 bishop of service. Elected 62nd congress, the seven succeeding Corn in 00:22:25.098 --> 00:22:31.535 February 1919 12. See that the state elections were primary election for 00:22:31.568 --> 00:22:37.506 us was held in 1911, 1911. 00:22:37.539 --> 00:22:45.539 Uh, and uh record somewhere. Then they about a month afterwards, they had 00:22:45.910 --> 00:22:53.706 the primary itself. That one, the, the nomination that I won the election 00:22:53.739 --> 00:23:00.736 and that was early November or December 1912. Then you had to wait until 00:23:00.769 --> 00:23:07.127 the adopted the constitution that was 11, wasn't it 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.696 that they had to wait until they adopted the constitution and the 00:23:11.729 --> 00:23:17.097 constitution was approved 00:23:17.130 --> 00:23:24.367 it once he objected to the judge had to meet again and take that out and 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:32.400 then it de the admission a New Mexico the same time until February 14th, 00:23:32.719 --> 00:23:38.835 1912, I had to stay there to turn over my office and I had to stay there 00:23:38.868 --> 00:23:42.325 in order to get a certificate of election from the new Secretary of State 00:23:42.358 --> 00:23:46.535 and I got on the train came back. So you were really sheriff about six 00:23:46.568 --> 00:23:51.387 years, all altogether. You stayed in sheriff until you came to the house 00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:59.420 in. Well, from January 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:08.967 for five years. I mean, in January 19 7, wasn't it? Uh, uh, I, yeah, it 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:14.055 would be five years between five and six years. A little over five years 00:24:14.088 --> 00:24:20.357 from January to February over to February 14th. Was that, were you sheriff 00:24:20.390 --> 00:24:27.357 of what is now Phoenix? What is now, the whole city of Phoenix 00:24:27.390 --> 00:24:32.467 is about as big as the state of Connecticut. 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:40.500 Uh, was it a very rugged job in those days? No, I was joking about why did 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.916 anybody call him up on the telephone? 00:24:43.949 --> 00:24:47.736 I didn't have any real trouble. 00:24:47.769 --> 00:24:53.285 They, the only 00:24:53.318 --> 00:24:59.696 we do it all get our business and, uh, I had no trouble going here. We did. 00:24:59.729 --> 00:25:05.416 You get rough with anybody? I had a deputy that was the only woman. All 00:25:05.449 --> 00:25:11.986 the end up. Same old John riding around town. There should be some kind of 00:25:12.019 --> 00:25:15.526 redneck leas about it. 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:22.585 Wonder why I've done it. Well, went down there. 00:25:22.618 --> 00:25:26.946 But you wait a lot or way more, you light up and grab it on you. I like 00:25:26.979 --> 00:25:32.575 you got the light there. Well, let's talk about it. I've talked to him a 00:25:32.608 --> 00:25:37.467 while and told him that, uh, sure that he'd get some justice if he'd come 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.847 down to the courthouse. Go down there. I got him to get inside and go to 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.026 court and he got all women. 00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:52.006 You believe in doing it the way the easiest way would be diplomatic. 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:56.467 Pull it in and make it. Do you ever look at these on television? Now? They 00:25:56.500 --> 00:26:03.176 , they, that's what I figured 00:26:03.209 --> 00:26:09.295 I have a rest horse thief one time, a notorious horse thief. He was, I got 00:26:09.328 --> 00:26:15.357 a description of him. Well, part of his old saloon, he was standing at the 00:26:15.390 --> 00:26:19.075 bar, he just put a gun on his back trying to stick up his hand and then 00:26:19.108 --> 00:26:23.897 took his gun away from him and I stood with him. You didn't break up all 00:26:23.930 --> 00:26:28.637 the furniture in the place, the way that you put on television, thing like 00:26:28.670 --> 00:26:33.117 that, you could, you could make it a restaurant, grabbing somebody or 00:26:33.150 --> 00:26:39.295 beating him up. Talk about it. Did, uh, did they organize pass much in, in 00:26:39.328 --> 00:26:45.946 your time? Sheriff? Not very good deputies. 00:26:45.979 --> 00:26:53.746 Both Wayne Davidson and uh my successor. I was j they were great trailers. 00:26:53.779 --> 00:26:57.295 Oh God, they could get on a horse and just take tracks and own them 00:26:57.328 --> 00:27:04.097 anymore. I had a judge out there in Maine named Kenny. He was the son of 00:27:04.130 --> 00:27:08.276 the Governor Ken. He was the first Republican governor elect of the United 00:27:08.309 --> 00:27:12.026 States. There was the old saying, man went, held back for Governor Kent. 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:15.166 He was his son, 00:27:15.199 --> 00:27:18.397 the judge. He didn't leave tracks. 00:27:18.430 --> 00:27:22.785 I don't know why Hollywood and I think is the best kind of food. Yeah. Uh 00:27:22.818 --> 00:27:29.825 huh. You got a solo shoe. The imprint of it to find the shoe on the man. 00:27:29.858 --> 00:27:34.206 The man was there. 00:27:34.239 --> 00:27:39.696 These were good trackers. Wait one time when they said somebody had stolen 00:27:39.729 --> 00:27:46.565 a pistol at a sheep cam. He went out there and pick the mare another. She 00:27:46.598 --> 00:27:52.335 cared about so many miles away. There was a, and by following his foot. Oh 00:27:52.368 --> 00:27:57.795 , yes. All you had to do, I guess the weather had something to do with 00:27:57.828 --> 00:28:03.857 that area. If it, if it rained in between it didn't rain much. That's one 00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:07.285 of your troubles down there. It never did rain enough, did it? Well, it 00:28:07.318 --> 00:28:12.926 rains six inches a year there as compared to 48 years that uh were any of 00:28:12.959 --> 00:28:16.335 these characters that they have on these television shows? Now, some of 00:28:16.368 --> 00:28:19.926 those were real well, they have tombstones and this, of course, they've 00:28:19.959 --> 00:28:26.926 exaggerated. I didn't know a damn thing about that. I know that I was 00:28:26.959 --> 00:28:32.416 coming along. Boy. Tombstone, busted, you see the price. So it went down a 00:28:32.449 --> 00:28:39.456 good many people came over and tombstone further north and Tom went down 00:28:39.489 --> 00:28:43.206 the south east corner. 00:28:43.239 --> 00:28:47.936 A lot of people came over there. Uh, 00:28:47.969 --> 00:28:53.006 and you never knew figures, but you were barred to install it. Very good 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:59.196 friend of mine and, and uh I helped him get overseas when he was one of, 00:28:59.229 --> 00:29:05.246 he was a very fine stenographer first. You said a quarter or whatever. Mhm. 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:09.516 There are different families like that that moved from Tucson into 00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:12.575 Phoenix into that area. 00:29:12.608 --> 00:29:19.276 I heard a lot of talk about but I know so I went there with my father 00:29:19.309 --> 00:29:25.276 before the bust. 00:29:25.309 --> 00:29:28.357 That's right. Was that a mining center is that why it got such a 00:29:28.390 --> 00:29:31.785 reputation? Is that where they were, they discovered there's a very rich 00:29:31.818 --> 00:29:37.476 sort about there. And, uh, 00:29:37.509 --> 00:29:41.746 he went down there on some business when I was a boy, took me along, we 00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:46.736 went to Benson and got our old Edward stagecoach road was up and down, up 00:29:46.769 --> 00:29:54.647 and down and then it was a mine that they call a contention mine. I, and 00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:58.377 we got interview when we were down the shaft. In fact, that was the first 00:29:58.410 --> 00:30:02.706 time I was in mine. I scared it when the bottom dropped out. But they had 00:30:02.739 --> 00:30:06.967 a way of just let that go and catching it up before it hit the, hit the 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:12.186 bottom. Especially if they had a greenhorn in there. Huh? Yeah. But, uh, 00:30:12.219 --> 00:30:20.219 II, I was a small, I, I just have a collection of tombstone 00:30:20.689 --> 00:30:24.906 riding the stage and going down the mine shaft was the biggest thing that 00:30:24.939 --> 00:30:32.295 I saw. What were most of the, of the cases? You'd have a sheriff, 00:30:32.328 --> 00:30:39.666 certain cases and, uh, all kinds of theory and took care of the insane and 00:30:39.699 --> 00:30:42.736 things like that. 00:30:42.769 --> 00:30:50.769 I had a name on there. Um, because he came home very prominent family in 00:30:52.199 --> 00:30:59.805 Sonora where we educated in Mexico and, uh, talk with him one evening. 00:30:59.838 --> 00:31:06.127 What came in said that, uh, I was gonna want to kill her. I was gonna kill 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:11.186 her. She was scared, her husband was gonna kill him. Yeah, he tried to 00:31:11.219 --> 00:31:17.805 kill her. So scared. And, uh, she said, uh, he's the man that killed, that 00:31:17.838 --> 00:31:24.285 man found dead down ever railroad tracks. I said, how do you know when he 00:31:24.318 --> 00:31:28.285 came home? He told me he did it and he took my sewing machine oil and 00:31:28.318 --> 00:31:34.065 cleaned out his lower. I said, you married to him said, no, you're living 00:31:34.098 --> 00:31:40.357 with him so she could be a witness. I got him. He was the right one, the 00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:44.847 right one 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.565 or the state prison in Yuma then or had they set it up at Florence? No, I 00:31:48.598 --> 00:31:53.627 had to take prisoners, Yuma all the way over to Yuma. Uh We have a term of 00:31:53.660 --> 00:32:01.176 courts at home and get 34 time and take them down there by 19 6 was uh was 00:32:01.209 --> 00:32:06.226 Phoenix. Uh pretty, pretty good settlement by then. A number of people 00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:12.186 over there was, I don't remember what the and I view 10 census of Phoenix 00:32:12.219 --> 00:32:16.295 would show you would find out and of course, it's grown by leaps and 00:32:16.328 --> 00:32:22.637 bounds in the last 3030 years or so. I guess a comp compare every small 00:32:22.670 --> 00:32:25.565 town but 00:32:25.598 --> 00:32:31.276 thriving community in those days. Was it a transfer point for people pay, 00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:39.309 going through or did you? It was the stub end of two lines railroad. It's 00:32:39.739 --> 00:32:46.946 about 3040 miles down to the South Pacific. It's much longer over 100 00:32:46.979 --> 00:32:51.946 miles up of Santa Fe and the South Pacific first built a railroad in a 00:32:51.979 --> 00:32:58.295 place called Maricopa Junction and across the river bridge across the Salt 00:32:58.328 --> 00:33:04.996 River, right near where I was born because of Phoenix. And uh other road 00:33:05.029 --> 00:33:08.647 came down from the north. 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:14.766 It came in later too. So they had railroad connections but you had to go 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:18.565 ST line each way. 00:33:18.598 --> 00:33:22.266 One thing I wondered about senator, uh, that might be of interest to Jerry. 00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:27.756 What was the uh relative strength of the Republicans and the Democrats? 00:33:27.789 --> 00:33:31.627 And, and what did in general did the two, what was the difference between 00:33:31.660 --> 00:33:37.416 the two parties out there? Well, the time you first got into the poli, 00:33:37.449 --> 00:33:45.045 between Arizona and New Mexico was um, 00:33:45.078 --> 00:33:51.555 the Confederates defeated Confederate soldiers that lost out, drifted west 00:33:51.588 --> 00:33:58.117 and a lot of them settled in that area and that was the backbone of the 00:33:58.150 --> 00:34:04.647 democracy, the area in, in both New Mexico and Arizona. No, in Arizona, 00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:10.155 Arizona, in New Mexico, they had this uh uh 00:34:10.188 --> 00:34:17.604 Mexico was loyal to the union that is around Santa Fe up that area and 00:34:17.637 --> 00:34:24.495 they a Republican, they had more people than we had. And the statehood 00:34:24.528 --> 00:34:32.416 fight uh that we had for all of us years before we got in Oklahoma and uh 00:34:32.449 --> 00:34:37.086 Indian territory would be consolidated in one state and everybody knew it 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:43.816 would be a democratic state. So they idea was then to consolidate Arizona 00:34:43.849 --> 00:34:49.655 and New Mexico, a load of that cut off from the Mexico. Lincoln was 00:34:49.688 --> 00:34:57.688 president and made a separate territory. Lincoln did. Yes, that was 61. 00:34:58.429 --> 00:35:00.577 Why 00:35:00.610 --> 00:35:06.945 they see that. That's where the centennial comes in. You see. Mhm. It's 00:35:06.978 --> 00:35:13.916 100 years since Arizona was made separate, separate territory under legal 00:35:13.949 --> 00:35:18.646 industry. Well, if they could put Arizona and Mexico together, the 00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:23.747 Republican majority in Mexico would overcome the democratic majority in 00:35:23.780 --> 00:35:28.115 Arizona. They wanted, they wanted one state out of the two territories. 00:35:28.148 --> 00:35:34.486 Sure. But then they would get two Republican senators about the two that 00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.287 Oklahoma 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:42.376 the thing up and we had about three sessions of three different Congress. 00:35:42.409 --> 00:35:50.409 We had this fighter and the ability of a few senators in the Senate take 00:35:50.878 --> 00:35:53.675 time to talk. 00:35:53.708 --> 00:35:59.695 Freedom is a debate and it kept Arizona being consolidated. They just said 00:35:59.728 --> 00:36:03.077 you just can't do that to those people and they talked every time they 00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:09.017 tried to do it and finally they gave way and gave us the right to a 00:36:09.050 --> 00:36:15.776 separate vote. Each state was to vote and if both of them, each terror was 00:36:15.809 --> 00:36:19.967 vote, both of them voted for the joint state. All right. Either one voted 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:27.006 , no, New Mexico voted for a joint statehood. We want to go. And so that's 00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.756 how we could be admitted Southerners who came out there after the war and 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:35.727 settled in Arizona. They would be mostly Democrats. 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.296 I looked at the backbone was 00:36:39.329 --> 00:36:42.557 an old man named Long. 00:36:42.590 --> 00:36:48.916 Uh I was the superintendent of public instruction by appointment. The 00:36:48.949 --> 00:36:55.706 president would appoint a public go and, and the staff and so on this one 00:36:55.739 --> 00:37:00.557 always on the go or staff that way. And somebody said to him on election 00:37:00.590 --> 00:37:05.186 day, the old man vote Republican ticket and then he got along and take a 00:37:05.219 --> 00:37:10.767 few drinks and somebody said, well, how do you come? So many Democrats in 00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:17.856 Arizona, the old man says a vigilance of peace officers in Texas 00:37:17.889 --> 00:37:24.916 in Texas didn't give Arizona any credit. Well, then me, they were driven 00:37:24.949 --> 00:37:28.816 out of Texas. 00:37:28.849 --> 00:37:36.849 That was the way it had to get out of it. 00:37:40.188 --> 00:37:45.327 Oh, Bill Baron was a great talker and he introduced Gore at home one time 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:50.146 and made a very flowy speech to the big meeting. What, how you knew Gore 00:37:50.179 --> 00:37:54.546 in Oklahoma and what a great senator he was and so on. Was this the blind 00:37:54.579 --> 00:38:02.579 , the blind senator from Oklahoma or blind? And go up said, I'm very 00:38:03.369 --> 00:38:08.695 grateful to Billy Barnum for his introduction. He said, everybody said, if 00:38:08.728 --> 00:38:11.477 he could have stayed in Oklahoma, the grand jury would have cured him, 00:38:11.510 --> 00:38:16.155 would have cleared him. 00:38:16.188 --> 00:38:18.706 And 00:38:18.739 --> 00:38:22.776 that concluded the pertinent 00:38:22.809 --> 00:38:29.497 a portion of the interview conducted on October the 9th, 1961. 00:38:29.530 --> 00:38:35.595 And now we'll go right on to the next day, October 10th, the same parties. 00:38:35.628 --> 00:38:43.628 And, uh, also in the Senator's Washington office 00:38:44.250 --> 00:38:49.416 on at Maricopa and rode the train out to the Gila River, which is about 00:38:49.449 --> 00:38:54.747 seven or eight miles from Maricopa Junction and they pulled the bell cord 00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:57.905 and got off in the meantime, they just went through, robbed everybody on 00:38:57.938 --> 00:39:02.736 the train, like the conductor taking up tickets. Yeah, just like that. 00:39:02.769 --> 00:39:09.106 There were two boys, uh, brothers named Woodson before and, uh, they 00:39:09.139 --> 00:39:13.445 decided to involve the train. So they rented two horses of delivery stable 00:39:13.478 --> 00:39:20.646 and, uh, Phoenix drove over and tied them in the brush in the river bottom. 00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:25.316 Oh, they were going to get off and then when they, and they walked over 00:39:25.349 --> 00:39:31.606 to a got on the train, they got to the bridge, they stopped coordinator 00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:36.356 and stopped and they got off and they took their horses. They had, that 00:39:36.389 --> 00:39:44.389 was a plan. Well, as I say, the train came in, uh my son out there, uh 00:39:45.610 --> 00:39:50.486 they told me about it and I said, well, if you'll give us a hand uh stop 00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:53.727 car, put the horses in there and go there and get on the trail in the 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:58.365 morning. So they did that 00:39:58.398 --> 00:40:06.398 a horse or video as that word dog came in and reservation to ask for some 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:14.276 and he had police fever my c and uh 00:40:14.309 --> 00:40:17.967 as some have over there in the morning mountain. 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:25.506 So following, we have trackers, we took our horses off and go along with 00:40:25.539 --> 00:40:32.356 the opinion, please. Is that where 00:40:32.389 --> 00:40:38.646 during the night, John Nelson was sheriff of chemo. Same in all the train 00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:44.537 . I did 00:40:44.570 --> 00:40:50.126 customs than to 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:58.159 or a customer that and uh so he want to go, why you give John my horse? 00:40:58.659 --> 00:41:04.135 They ride that sheriff, he you going down and they just counted the way 00:41:04.168 --> 00:41:10.006 the trail follow it. And 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:15.577 the man named mccarthy had this African Jack Rabbit car, Larry in Maricopa. 00:41:15.610 --> 00:41:22.106 So he said that you get, we'll have one in his, we were going to have one 00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:25.595 of the in his scouts come back 00:41:25.628 --> 00:41:29.787 and, uh, when the police come back and tell us which way the thing was 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:34.796 going to the trail was that we could take the car and after a while they 00:41:34.829 --> 00:41:38.477 came in and reported that the, you remember the bed of Maricopa, a flat 00:41:38.510 --> 00:41:43.717 top mountain right south of the junction? Mhm. Well, if they had gone 00:41:43.750 --> 00:41:50.967 around the end of that mountain, so, and turned around it. So, uh, it 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.845 looked like they were going to go that way. So we went about halfway to 00:41:54.878 --> 00:42:01.675 Casa Grande and then took out across the place. Well, I had my, I like 00:42:01.708 --> 00:42:08.345 what I used at the camp car or a dependable go, 00:42:08.378 --> 00:42:12.885 got anywhere near on one of these new business. Um, and it took a long 00:42:12.918 --> 00:42:17.956 time for me, kept the trail to stay on it. And I don't know where they're 00:42:17.989 --> 00:42:22.977 going and then send the India back about noon. I think we left. It must 00:42:23.010 --> 00:42:30.206 have been about two o'clock, but I meant they possibly going back horse. 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.796 They said their horse are out of water. They had, had these this morning 00:42:32.829 --> 00:42:38.856 and then they go to a little place called Ken and, uh, get some water by 00:42:38.889 --> 00:42:42.135 the ho up tracks and they said they're so fresh, the Indians don't stay in 00:42:42.168 --> 00:42:47.845 front anymore. So, down this road, I think we go down the road in the car. 00:42:47.878 --> 00:42:52.247 You go. And so that 00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:57.155 to train drivers they never thought about being pursued by automobiles. 00:42:57.188 --> 00:43:02.345 They were out of water. Yeah. And, uh, so they tied their horses when they 00:43:02.378 --> 00:43:09.345 heard the car coming and disarmed themselves apparently. And, uh, came out 00:43:09.378 --> 00:43:15.747 to ask for water. Yeah, we just hopped out and cut out and covered them. I 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:20.006 know Conon was kind of nervous. He, one of them didn't put up his hand 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:24.686 when he taken a, a certain two pistols and one of the passengers, he had a 00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:31.327 base as pocket, but I didn't put him up because he didn't. So we got out 00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.217 of disarmed on Monday and comfortable. Then they fired some shots in the 00:43:36.250 --> 00:43:40.037 air and the horse wasn't having gone so far. What they could hear it all 00:43:40.070 --> 00:43:43.916 came back up. 00:43:43.949 --> 00:43:48.256 One of my deputies, old named Bill Wilson got an old police officer, 00:43:48.289 --> 00:43:52.816 tombstone five room home. And, uh, I told Bill I was kind of tired and not 00:43:52.849 --> 00:43:59.115 to ride in a car. I, 00:43:59.148 --> 00:44:04.467 the horse, I thought we did, we went over to Cocklebur and the automobile 00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:06.767 broke down. 00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:13.456 Had to get a Indian. I see my horse. I know it, little wagon with no bed 00:44:13.489 --> 00:44:18.477 on it. Put the president on their handcuff and right away we got a cast on 00:44:18.510 --> 00:44:20.997 the way of the night 00:44:21.030 --> 00:44:24.977 on the damn car. I had check the night before. We hardly any, as a matter 00:44:25.010 --> 00:44:31.365 of fact, or, or that kind, I would sleep on a billiard table. 00:44:31.398 --> 00:44:37.307 I did. The Indian police always work with you on 00:44:37.340 --> 00:44:42.506 that. Police were very good. Were they on the reservation there on every 00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:46.856 Indian reservation they have Indian Police 00:44:46.889 --> 00:44:51.686 law and order and you can call on them any time. That's what I know. They 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:57.227 , they have a, I thought that was an interesting case. I just wonder, hey 00:44:57.260 --> 00:45:02.497 , I get a little more up there on the, the rest of the story wasn't when 00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:06.646 we landed and, uh, Casa Grande were, of course, they telegraphed in the 00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:11.135 Phoenix and we had them, they were there and they were coming on the train 00:45:11.168 --> 00:45:16.166 and when the train came along, uh, early in the morning we got in there. 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:23.827 You need just a little lab. So, and, uh, and, uh, what I want to do is put 00:45:23.860 --> 00:45:28.916 him in jail, slam the door and go and get some sleep. I have to swipe on 00:45:28.949 --> 00:45:31.526 my hand. 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:35.155 Other men went there of course and took the president up and did that. 00:45:35.188 --> 00:45:41.467 Well, I got some sleep. I come out of there. I bet the old fellow, uh, but 00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:46.506 not very well up in the courthouse. He said, Carl, I'd rather be used my 00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:49.776 wife on my hand. I have little friend Robert. That would be president of 00:45:49.809 --> 00:45:55.186 two Magistrates. He thought it was a great, they have, they have much of 00:45:55.219 --> 00:45:59.537 the stuff with them that they got off the pass. Yeah. Well, it was, they 00:45:59.570 --> 00:46:03.425 took watches and took 00:46:03.458 --> 00:46:09.767 things like that and they disarmed the cover of a deputy sheriff who had a 00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:12.566 printer who be, 00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:15.936 they just covered him and took his gun away from him. He was on the train. 00:46:15.969 --> 00:46:20.796 You see, they got, they came up from behind, they walk behind each 00:46:20.829 --> 00:46:27.885 bastard with their gun. He used everything you got. They took watches and 00:46:27.918 --> 00:46:32.747 money. They didn't turn his prisoner loose. So, uh, they didn't turn this 00:46:32.780 --> 00:46:38.626 prisoner loose at all. There were trainers moving and went on in 00:46:38.659 --> 00:46:42.936 good to jump off the train and divorce the guard to hold him anyhow. And 00:46:42.969 --> 00:46:50.456 then I was, and he was handcuffed was, but the guard was, had his gun on 00:46:50.489 --> 00:46:56.336 his side that his cover away from him. The, uh, number two session, uh, 00:46:56.369 --> 00:47:04.369 session of August the 10th, 1961. Uh, continues on the flip of this tape. 00:47:06.849 --> 00:47:08.849 There was an interruption here. Uh, a telephone call the senator had to 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:15.070 take. So the continuity may be broken a little.