Next, we examine the educational aspect of the Arcosanti workshop. Many
people expect it to be more of an educational institution than it is. Our
facilities have not allowed us at this time to put too much emphasis on
the teaching. So the intellectual life or the social life is limited. It's
almost non existent. An important part of the workshop experience is that
weekly meeting Soleri has with all participants has a basic understanding
of what Solari is about. Or even if he's read, you know, he's plowed his
way through about becoming spirit or sitting in the image of man. But the
point is if you come here, um I mean, for example, I read a lot of that
stuff and yet I come, I came here expecting or hoping for clarification
and a real, you know, a real perspective on all of that, which that's
what's meetings are for. He's not going to lecture you, you have to ask
the questions and that's what the whole thing is. If you come here with a
question, he'll answer them to the best of his ability. And you can even
ask him the same question every time and he'll go into it every meeting,
but that's what he comes here for. But nobody's you come here. This is,
this is not a classroom experience. They also said that in the brochure,
we are interested in augmenting the educational elements that we can offer
here. And I think this will begin in 1975 and become much more obvious in
1976. But still the accent is on construction and the learning process has
to be found there. Fundamentally, I've been doing pre casting glazing and
digging in the pit
construction experience before you came here. No, it was pretty easy
working in the pit. All I had to do was pick up a chisel and chisel rocks
all the glazing. Um I just followed Tim around for a while until I caught
on to what he was doing. And the same thing with Charlie when I was doing
pre casting, I was interested in that. So I asked if I could work with him.
That's what I really like doing the most carpentry. It's been a long time
, building forms and
finish carpentry. That's just up the hill and just do all kinds of
projects of my own camp. Cosmic Kin Sunscreening. What kind of work? And
what kind of Sunscreening have you been doing? Arco soI T shirts. This is
what we've been working on for the whole six weeks. We poured 4 1000 £250
concrete planters, 7 ft six by 19 by 17. If we had a little more time,
we'd plant them after the chain hut, our ton and a half chain hoist that
is uh used to roll over each of these flower pots because we cast them
upside down other tasks on the site such as welding, plumbing and
operating and maintaining. The heavy equipment tends to be done by staff
members, John Sandgren. A works hopper comments on the work scene as a
whole. I think it is great. I have never seen anything like it before.
People singing and whistling around the site is just phenomenal. Perhaps
an outstanding example of the will to work is when a semi trailer load of
cement in £90 bags arrives on the site. Everyone is marshaled to unload it
into the cement shed
just talking to our work
back of us.
No, sir, I don't think. Well, I think it's a pretty good crew. That's what
I think you got a lot of people here.
No, no, this is the first time I've been in here. No, they told me that
I'd get unloaded pretty fast. They told me it would be by hand though.
Yeah, they said that they'd get a bunch of people up here and really start
going 12 minutes so far. You got to wait till the last bags in here.
No, I scared who's got the last bag?
I'll wait. I'll wait to be the last bag.
Is there a record pending or is there, is this all, uh, what sort of prize
do I win for being the last bag,
don't you? Why don't you bite the bag,
man? Let go
get the day off. I think the people's will to work and to finish something
that they have pride in is an advantage which you won't get in another
construction site. Which, that's one reason I'm glad I came. I've learned
so much in just doing it much more than a book had ever. Tell me how to do.
How do you feel about Paulo's relationship to the construction work? The
fact that he's here quite a bit of the time, at least once a week is a
very good thing. Only because at this point in the Archology growth, it's
essential that he be here to sort of oversee what's happening. And
unfortunately, many times even in the real world is like, everyone seems
to call it many, some architects never even see the buildings that their
company has designed. And that is an architecture to me. So you feel that
it's, it's good that Pard takes an interest in the smallest detail of the
building. He's a visionary at heart and these times which he comes up to
the site, I sort of give him some reality to the vision that he's sort of
built in his mind and to see it being put into concrete and steel is a, is
a nice thing and that maybe will mold some of his ideas as to the
difficulty in building with this certain material and how it will work in
the future. In others, I asked participants, how they feel about the idea
of oncology. I think this is a really vital experiment that needs to be
done. It's very interesting. So far, all my experiences of living in close
quarters with people. Paul Steinberg have been negative ones. I think it
could be good. I'm not really sure how it would be. We cannot, uh we
couldn't survive if people that came here would be mainly skeptical or, or
against the idea, it would be, would be too much. You need, you need some
kind of oh support. I mean, the human individual support, people support.
I think there would be a remarkable change in the second generation.
People who are born here, born in an archology, the work that seems to be
going on in the cities today, Bill Finney makes me feel that greed is
really the process behind it. The city are really put together by a lot of
different people. So it comes out as lots of pieces and the people seem to
get short changed in the process where individuals are making money for
themselves rather than making cities for people to live and have good
environments in what seems to be happening. Here is the beginning of an
organism which comes complete with all of the pieces. It is something that
will bring the individuals together in an enlivening process, a very
dynamic kind of city, the idea itself, if it wasn't attractive, I wouldn't
be staying here. But although I don't, can't say I really believe in the
concept of Archology, it seems the most viable possible possibility or
idea to work towards a future at the moment. So I'm going to give it a
shot. And what do you mean by? You don't believe me, I'm not so sure that
by building a structure as power is designed it, you're necessarily going
to produce a city which is free from a lot of the ills that plague other
cities. It's an interesting possibility, but I don't believe in it. My God.
Well, it's going to change people, you know, evolutionarily, you know,
over a long period of time for sure. And it's like city have changed
people from cavemen. But sometimes I really wonder like if Archos of a
million people are really possible. But then I think, well, maybe not
within my lifetime or, you know, 50 lifetimes from now, but I could see it
happening eventually since I've only been here six weeks. I really don't
have a feel of what's going on. I don't think I'm ready yet to criticize
Paula on his work though. I think that at some point in time in the future
, I should start thinking about that. I'm not the kind of person to
swallow something whole. And I have criticisms that I'm working on but how
valid they are. I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of an experiment on
a small scale going on right now. We have a lot of people working here.
The effort that's going into building this place is a worthwhile effort.
It's something worthwhile for me to do with my energy. And whether or not
it's going to work is a fascinating experiment that's going on now. And I
, and working here, I'm part of that. It's an interesting idea. I
certainly better than a lot of ideas that are being tried. Now. I think
it's probably the most valid thing that we have for city designs today. I
was skeptical. I thought it was the beginning of 1984 and Big Brother is
watching, I feel it's different now that I think that the structure and
the people that inhabit it will possibly change the path that man is
headed for. I think it was against human nature. Mary Coogan, the Baker as
people become more and more dense, they become more and more alienated
from each other and things like high crime rates. People stop relating to
other people as people and more as objects like furniture because they're
so close. Do you find that to be true here
when there are more people here? Yeah, I do find that true. The more
people that are here, the more detached I personally become from them. I
don't think that much thought has gone into the psychology of it. I think
it's something that's expected to happen. I don't think it's just going to
happen. I always have a vision of this one scene in Clockwork Orange is a
beautiful apartment house. These murals on the walls and it was just a
beautiful building was totally trashed. It was just the, the attitude of
the people, the alienation of the people. And, uh, I don't see any,
currently any drastic change in, in human development here as far as
ability to relate to people. And I understand that's not supposed to come
to the buildings are up. But I don't believe, I believe that furniture
doesn't make a lot of difference. You have to change has to come from
within. I think people should recognize the fact that they're going to
have to change, to live there successfully and it's something that they're
going to have to do and something the city is going to do for them, people
set about changing. I think it's very highly personal thing because I, I
don't think there's any anything, I don't think the way I change could be
the way you change. I don't think it could change. People have to find out
what inside themselves, alienates themselves from other people and
separates them, go about changing that so that they are, they can react to
people on a level where they even treat a stranger that they don't know in
a way that they would like to be treated themselves. Jeff talks about how
he has changed. Well, trying to be more tolerant to the people that you're
living right next to and look, the feelings are the things that ta says
about having a, a feeling of love for somebody who's, you know, for the
other person.
I could see that happening a little bit in me from being here.
I'd like to see it happening a little bit more and a lot more than
everybody here. But I don't know, that's a long time coming. I think I did
the Erika 40 day training program in Vermont, Peter Calloway. It's kind of
a spiritual mental health, the what you call it a program where they bring
together various kinds of exercises and meditation, psychotherapeutic
physical chanting, that sort of thing to bring you hopefully to some state
of a higher awareness. And then this is another kind of trip. See, that's
a, that's a, that kind of trip. The guy who started it, Oscar Kaza is kind
of the idea is you're working on the inside of the person, you're trying
to change individuals so that then they will change the world, the
external. And then I came through this other kind of trip where Pablo
o'leary wants to change the outside of the exterior world in order to
change people. Kaza who founded Arika doesn't know how to necessarily how
to design structures and that sort of thing. I think that he has a better
developed philosophy, has a better organization. And although the problem
of the problem he faces is that when people become more aware, what do
they then do is the question. Now, one of the nice things about pallot is
that he gives us something to do. And the problem is that what he's given
us to do or the organizational form it to do it. And what he's given us to
do is is not necessarily the form of it going to bring people either in
the process of it or in the completion of it to a greater well being. I
believe that it's, it has potential there, but it needs a hell of a lot of
work Larry. But visiting San to check it out was so enthusiastic that he
signed up for the first workshop of 1975. It's very exciting to think
about making a contribution. I think in terms of my background, which is
organizational development. And I see that there, there is probably a lot
of energy that's available. A lot of resources here that are probably not
used in the waste, which can't be afforded. What kind of things would have
to be changed for this energy to be used, isense management planning or
making sure that interrelated parts connect, for example, has there ever
been a real stock taking? I mean, the whole community taking stock of
itself and saying, hey, this is where we are in every dimension. And then
really examining its resources that maybe are not tapped and then really
seeing where we could be right now, the buildings are at a point where
they can't go much farther unless we get proper assistance from money
sources, research sources and consultants in various areas. I see also
some sense that there must be some or suppression of human needs in terms
of the overall goal. And I don't know whether that's even necessary, the
kind of frictions and dissatisfaction, socially and spiritually they are
here now have to be taken care of Robin Elmore. There is a resistance to
matters, spiritual and intellectual or whatever you want to call being a
part of the community life here. There's no doubt in my mind that if there
are a lot of people here who have a heavy investment in being able to live
a lifestyle where they can do construction work during the day and
bullshit and drink beer at night, you know, which they happen to enjoy. It
happens I think to be less satisfying for me, I don't go with that so much.
I spend a lot more time alone, which is perhaps dissatisfying. Also, Tony
Brown comments. If all we had to do was to sit here and survive at life,
uh just grow enough food for everybody to greet and just build enough
shelter to shelter the people here right now, we wouldn't really have any
problem. We're trying to build a $45 million building. Well, that's the
estimate using our labor, um using commercial labors about 130. So this
whole thing about community and a sand and construction site has always
been one of the, the big problems. Well, not big problems. There's been a
problem that's gone through a lot of discussion. There's always the
arguments of community versus construction site and the performance before
structure, there's always been a point of difference between lots of
people. Part of the premise of Archology is that the structure will
perceive the performance. In other words, once you have the structure
there, you become because of the constraints or the inputs of the building
itself, you change the people that live within that structure. Now, it
seems to me if we could get 3000 people living in tents on this site,
produce a change uh uh evolutionary change in that group, then we're
wasting our time building the archaeology. We might as well pitch 3000
tents and have a, have a community straight away. Um So it seems to me
that we got to get the building built before we can start this big
experiment. The building of Arcosanti is a dynamic process. Mistakes are
made and learned from there are disagreements, these are being worked
through. Next, Paulo talks about this in the sense that what he refers to
as being stuck is the same as having problems in order to be able to
operate, you are stuck with something. In fact, we are stuck with gravity
and friction so that we can do something. We are stuck with the desert,
but it's just because we are stuck with it that we can do something. So
you always have to get stuck with something in order to be able to
transcend this something, you are stuck with your body. And luckily you
are stuck with your body because if you didn't have the body to be stuck
with, you wouldn't exist. So we, we should not have this pitfall of saying
that we should not be tied to anything because by tying ourselves to
something we are, we are stuck with it. That's the only way you exist. One
must be. And B means being touched. One of my skepticism about some of the
ideas in architectural school is this hatred almost about the
objectification of whatever we are thinking of. Sooner or later. You are
yet to objectify. You have to come up with the, with the hardware.
Otherwise you keep planning, you keep designing, you keep thinking, you
keep debating, you keep demolishing, you keep uh but you don't, you're
unstuck. I asked Soleri whether there was any possibility of his losing
control of the project. It's always a possibility. There are two things
which are somehow controlling it. One is that I have veto power for the
moment. So that means that legally no one has the authority of kicking me
out. Also for the moment, the trustees are myself and my wife. And one
reason was to keep it this way was because I want to be sure that I could
have that control. The only is that uh even even if uh let's say a group
could kick me out once I am out, probably this thing without my approval,
this thing may die unless I, I still work from outside in trying to help
him. Because for the moment, I think people are coming here fundamentally
because I'm, I'm the head of the, of the process might be an illusion. But
I think more or less it's true. At the same time, I think there is enough
loyalty.
Well, it's quite loyalty to me. An idea among the, the assistant to
believe on my part that this for the moment is not, uh is not a
possibility.
It's even if you're no longer here. Well, if I'm no longer here, is there
anything else? Once,
once somebody is not there things happen without this, somebody, it's no
matter how much you might try to plan the future in case or when you are
not here in those plans are, are in a way illegitimate or, or they impose
coercion that I don't think are likely
anybody, any, any dead person has the right to po not leaving person.
How can I tell you that when I'm there that you're going to do this
instead of that? I can ask you when I'm alive to put you through this or
that because I can try to explain to you. And I, I'm part of the process.
Evidently, the value of the idea has to, has to be there without the
presence, without my presence. So if my work has any meaning has to be
self supporting, self convincing, to end the program. So, Leary talks
about the significance of a or something. It is the the bridging element
between what you might call mass energy and what you might call spirit.
It's the bridge that it keeps being built by life every time it makes a
little step.
Arcosanti is located about 60 miles north of Phoenix. The site is one mile
northeast of Coeds Junction which is on interstate 17 between Phoenix and
Flagstaff at the Prescott turn off except during winter months. Our Kante
is open to visitors. Tours are given at 11 a.m. and at 3 p.m. Kanti which
is Soleri's headquarters and the site of his original experimental
structures is located in Scottsdale. Visitors to Kanti can buy Soleri
Bells there for information about our Kanti workshops contact Kanti which
is spelled C OS A NT I. The address is 6433, Doubletree Road, Scottsdale
Arizona 85253
that is K Santi 6433, Doubletree Road, Scottsdale Arizona 85253.
This program was narrated and produced by Frank Kroger at KPFK Pacifica
Radio. In Los Angeles with technical assistance from Phil Mendelson.