WEBVTT 00:00:06.230 --> 00:00:08.230 works. It doesn't work that way. 00:00:11.819 --> 00:00:15.046 And a bit of light and a bit of proteins and can be very carefully and 00:00:15.079 --> 00:00:17.396 balance. 00:00:17.429 --> 00:00:20.616 That's gonna wait for that. 00:00:20.649 --> 00:00:25.875 Since your identification of frugality potentially could be one of those 00:00:25.908 --> 00:00:33.908 disciplines. Are there any other ones that seem evident? 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:39.116 Well, I think that the problem with the with the in society is always 00:00:39.149 --> 00:00:47.149 mediocrity in me. It is not everybody. We are all limited in our capacity 00:00:47.829 --> 00:00:52.457 and in our understanding, designers 00:00:52.490 --> 00:00:59.015 in in the the fact that you are giving up uh, the, uh 00:00:59.048 --> 00:01:06.566 we do not have any reverential notion about the importance of being alive. 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:14.599 So we came up consciously on point. We just float around. 00:01:15.730 --> 00:01:18.926 I think when 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:26.959 society is in that state of mind, there isn't very much 00:01:28.028 --> 00:01:32.736 who haven't used the word energy much, 00:01:32.769 --> 00:01:38.906 especially this evening. Don't you see that as a certain 00:01:38.939 --> 00:01:43.046 imperative? At least at the moment, which may have some great potential in 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:47.647 terms of 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:54.760 enhancing or alternatively, detracting from these evolutionary processes. 00:01:55.808 --> 00:01:57.808 But if if we take the son, uh, another one of those resources that we can 00:02:02.620 --> 00:02:05.447 plug at 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:13.480 with which through gradually, we're going to build our comfort But I don't 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.677 think that that the area of society has changed. We are still consumers 00:02:17.710 --> 00:02:25.245 after something. It's it's very questionable if you take the son not only 00:02:25.278 --> 00:02:33.217 as a P but as a very powerful S for Father, which our mother, because 00:02:33.250 --> 00:02:39.707 that's what it is. Basically, then, uh, we go about using this energy with 00:02:39.740 --> 00:02:45.827 the ocean, which is more expanded, 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:49.566 more transcendent. 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:56.475 My objection to the simple act as such, is that it might do a good job in 00:02:56.508 --> 00:03:02.297 some water, but it tends to perpetuate 00:03:02.330 --> 00:03:08.166 what is very much the the Western world, which is to be very able at 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:13.886 isolating problems and then try to come up with answers. 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:20.335 And now we know that those answers are true answers because it's he said, 00:03:20.368 --> 00:03:25.786 that you kill it, that we can get from some of that. It's a fundamental 00:03:25.819 --> 00:03:31.366 thing. It's something else, and we relate to that FM in very peculiar ways 00:03:31.399 --> 00:03:37.225 , and through those peculiar ways, we might begin to have a a little more 00:03:37.258 --> 00:03:41.876 of a cosmic notion of what it might be 00:03:41.909 --> 00:03:49.909 in for. So the the connection of it utilitarian aspect, the other aspect, 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:55.656 each other, in a way, 00:03:55.689 --> 00:04:00.297 do you have any particular projections as what might happen to the society 00:04:00.330 --> 00:04:04.475 in the next 50 years as it relates to 00:04:04.508 --> 00:04:11.656 present, uh, conventions about energy and, well, it seems to me that the 00:04:11.689 --> 00:04:14.267 the selling 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:22.245 the foot is somehow good. Maybe I might be wrong, but I know 00:04:22.278 --> 00:04:25.606 in part because that usually when when you have a new technology, you 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:32.486 default, so that makes people know your mind getting involved with it. But 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:38.776 in in part, I think. And basically I think because we feel 00:04:38.809 --> 00:04:45.116 very democratically oriented and if we if we know that there is still kind 00:04:45.149 --> 00:04:50.616 of oil available and a bit of gas available kind of coal available. And we 00:04:50.649 --> 00:04:56.476 know that science is, uh, 00:04:56.509 --> 00:05:00.455 for Magic 00:05:00.488 --> 00:05:06.075 Temple Magic. But we we tend to be 00:05:06.108 --> 00:05:12.586 less inclined for what somebody calls it. The soft technology and the 00:05:12.619 --> 00:05:17.687 appropriate technology. And so on 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:22.596 you you haven't identified any of the the other so called alternative 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:25.205 energy plans. 00:05:25.238 --> 00:05:33.238 Well, yeah, the the the great debate about, uh, about atomic, uh, two 00:05:35.798 --> 00:05:39.995 nutrition or fusion or whatever it is. I think we say it's a very timely 00:05:40.028 --> 00:05:45.906 debate because we we we are. There are tremendous risks involved with it 00:05:45.939 --> 00:05:52.916 to to speak up. That was in no natural. It's a it's a it's a joke. The 00:05:52.949 --> 00:05:57.687 song appears at first, 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:04.765 so the Atomic Fe fe was was there should be a year before they invented to 00:06:04.798 --> 00:06:10.067 do a colon, which is a colon zone. 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:18.100 But naturally, uh uh since we are, we are young at at developing things 00:06:19.790 --> 00:06:27.145 you never miss a lot of time yet, OK, H 00:06:27.178 --> 00:06:32.846 so I I don't have protection with many principles. I have objections in 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:40.879 terms of the point who are going to be refer to to have a safe 00:06:40.928 --> 00:06:48.928 atomic. Sorry. Do you have views on any of the other? Uh, so said I'm not 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:56.656 an engineer or a scientist, So I would put my feeding into my mouth 00:06:56.689 --> 00:06:59.976 concentrate 00:07:00.009 --> 00:07:04.406 the face of the the the the notion that seems to have some windy hours 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:07.745 other than I think we should make use of the wind. I think it's something 00:07:07.778 --> 00:07:13.336 we don't have enough wind to very much. Five E 00:07:13.369 --> 00:07:18.286 Put some energy in some batteries for to 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:25.156 Once again, 00:07:25.189 --> 00:07:27.836 there are so many investigations. 00:07:27.869 --> 00:07:30.007 Disease 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.745 was 00:07:32.778 --> 00:07:35.406 do touch already. 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:40.926 What sort of optimism do you have about the next 50 years 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:48.959 from the front of you, Do you? Yes. And how? How? Whatever those energy 00:07:49.389 --> 00:07:53.616 sources might relate. 00:07:53.649 --> 00:07:56.937 Consumerism in 00:07:56.970 --> 00:08:00.676 many ways 00:08:00.709 --> 00:08:05.305 a Southern realisation and a Southern reality which said that glass is 00:08:05.338 --> 00:08:09.836 going to be limited. I think it would be very good. It breaks our magic 00:08:09.869 --> 00:08:16.145 that they did because it would remind us that you know that we have been 00:08:16.178 --> 00:08:23.406 taken might be not very realistic. Might be very practical ways for a 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:27.086 minority. And it's not that I 00:08:27.119 --> 00:08:32.047 mhm 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:39.686 this continues possible about the standard of reading such a so things if 00:08:39.719 --> 00:08:44.866 you're if you're if you're from Kolkata or 00:08:44.899 --> 00:08:52.899 to people 00:08:54.109 --> 00:08:57.015 Um, 00:08:57.048 --> 00:09:03.645 what sort of directions do you see? Your own Most telling experiment going 00:09:03.678 --> 00:09:06.917 namely art design 00:09:06.950 --> 00:09:14.866 in terms of growth, evolution, development. 00:09:14.899 --> 00:09:22.899 Well, at this point, I, uh I'm suggesting a, uh a change of tactics, if 00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:31.750 not STS the changes that we don't see in the community or inside a large 00:09:32.619 --> 00:09:38.096 or interest in what we are trying to do by community. You mean the country. 00:09:38.129 --> 00:09:41.177 So 00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:47.836 So I'm thinking of trying to push for for what I call a critical mass on 00:09:47.869 --> 00:09:51.326 the site, which would 00:09:51.359 --> 00:09:54.307 this demand 00:09:54.340 --> 00:10:02.236 and the the mass would be the setting up of what I call the therapy. So 00:10:02.269 --> 00:10:08.217 community, which is what we have for many times as we have 00:10:08.250 --> 00:10:11.326 and then developed 00:10:11.359 --> 00:10:19.359 activities and events which would make a site, uh, very, very appealing 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:28.759 yes, for 2000 to be town to be investments. I'm not done. At that point, 00:10:29.190 --> 00:10:37.190 it will become to us as a matter the book and the other time twist up so 00:10:39.379 --> 00:10:42.846 on the side of the 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:50.836 for this pressure. But in effect, isn't that a reversal earlier position 00:10:50.869 --> 00:10:56.066 learning to have There is a structure for the performance. But we are 00:10:56.099 --> 00:10:59.706 doing that, though, because 00:10:59.739 --> 00:11:04.547 we have to. We started with not in the and I decided that it would be a 00:11:04.580 --> 00:11:08.057 town, that 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:13.427 the emotion that you put something there and then this something work full. 00:11:13.460 --> 00:11:17.297 So that's what we are doing year by year. We are doing something and see 00:11:17.330 --> 00:11:20.775 that. 00:11:20.808 --> 00:11:27.606 So I think when it's cereal, it's a, uh it's going about the the by. Going 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:32.366 through certain follows certain 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:39.265 devices which might might might make to go, not physical. 00:11:39.298 --> 00:11:43.956 Do you have any idea what that critical mass is in terms of numbers of 00:11:43.989 --> 00:11:46.726 people. 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:54.047 What am I working out? No, it's It's a one which would, uh, include the 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.135 pre five 00:11:57.168 --> 00:12:03.015 you should do. But it will kill people because the facilities would be 00:12:03.048 --> 00:12:09.446 mainly no one of the equivalent of a residence, but the equivalent of a 00:12:09.479 --> 00:12:13.816 space 00:12:13.849 --> 00:12:16.246 for the 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:18.866 and that's 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:24.645 you cause some explanation. But, uh, 00:12:24.678 --> 00:12:28.686 it would be for for a number of trans people in the world, and then it 00:12:28.719 --> 00:12:35.635 would two elements that I'm trying to push for now is a combination. 00:12:35.668 --> 00:12:39.196 It's an umbrella which is a monastic. 00:12:39.229 --> 00:12:44.765 And then on this, that there will be a screw of architectural landscaping 00:12:44.798 --> 00:12:52.798 , design and so on, which could be in this environment for frugality. 00:12:56.830 --> 00:13:02.936 And then this architectural and landscape also schooling. That would be a 00:13:02.969 --> 00:13:05.496 training 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:10.616 for the skills of conception. So there will be trains, learning, trades, 00:13:10.649 --> 00:13:13.436 students, 00:13:13.469 --> 00:13:18.246 architecture, and there would be both of them under this within this 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:25.505 environment, a domestic 00:13:25.538 --> 00:13:33.025 and you see them as key elements in achieving a critical mass. Yeah, And 00:13:33.058 --> 00:13:38.927 then beside that, we have we had to design, uh, what we call the the 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:46.960 introduction of the arts performing arts media. And 00:13:48.820 --> 00:13:53.875 so those elements of this process. 00:13:53.908 --> 00:13:57.356 The integration of 00:13:57.389 --> 00:14:02.625 we studied politics through the media, 00:14:02.658 --> 00:14:07.206 we would achieve a very lively setting. 00:14:07.239 --> 00:14:11.616 In effect, you see that a component which is one which is introvert and 00:14:11.649 --> 00:14:15.826 the other, which is extroverted. 00:14:15.859 --> 00:14:22.336 Yeah, yes and no. Because, uh, number one I don't see the monasticism. As 00:14:22.369 --> 00:14:30.015 as the deal was traditionally could be like this se ashes is basically is 00:14:30.048 --> 00:14:34.096 a good way of, of sort of suggesting 00:14:34.129 --> 00:14:38.226 ways. The ways of learning about 00:14:38.259 --> 00:14:41.976 OK 00:14:42.009 --> 00:14:48.236 and that is a very important example and specifically very important for 00:14:48.269 --> 00:14:53.967 will be out of this or the blessed people which are responsible for the 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:01.746 designing of the women. A. But I think it's 00:15:01.779 --> 00:15:08.287 you don't sense any conflict between, um the discipline that's implied in 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.467 frugality, 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:17.316 the concepts 00:15:17.349 --> 00:15:20.596 that complexity 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:24.047 No. In fact, 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:31.206 if you take the aesthetic process, for instance, and very keep and I think 00:15:31.239 --> 00:15:36.576 it's pretty good, you find out that, uh, 00:15:36.609 --> 00:15:43.096 what distinguishes the the art object is that its name with almost nothing 00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:47.015 , and it has a tremendous power. 00:15:47.048 --> 00:15:53.986 So we are dealing with the with the most economic and it was 00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:59.265 location See, 00:15:59.298 --> 00:16:06.557 which tells me that ultimately what we are looking at is not a a a 00:16:06.590 --> 00:16:14.590 cosmogenesis but a mele Genesis because that's where the other economy 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:22.717 it becomes very, very good and pleasant. It took over. One 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:30.486 was of the people. There's better in terms of of the common wealth. Give 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:32.996 it to another spot, 00:16:33.029 --> 00:16:38.525 even for for a consumer society. I was I was trying to think about how you 00:16:38.558 --> 00:16:45.736 can equate, uh, a piece by in terms of come out with brilliant of you come 00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:48.515 out with just 00:16:48.548 --> 00:16:53.226 $2. How do you, um, 00:16:53.259 --> 00:16:57.625 how do you conceive of what you're doing? Um, both in terms of ideas and 00:16:57.658 --> 00:17:03.456 also demonstration within a larger frame of context. 00:17:03.489 --> 00:17:10.607 But evidently what we are doing is in many ways is it's ridiculous 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.706 because it's very, very small. 00:17:14.739 --> 00:17:19.897 It's, uh, it's very limited 00:17:19.930 --> 00:17:22.627 to equality. 00:17:22.660 --> 00:17:27.516 But that doesn't disturb me that much because, uh, I'm thinking what we 00:17:27.549 --> 00:17:33.367 are doing more in terms of our match or some kind of yeast more than the 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:36.877 actual thing. So 00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:44.910 mhm and triggering is the important thing. It's not so much D 00:17:45.509 --> 00:17:51.186 and like the essence of tribute. Maybe not the essence of cigarettes to be 00:17:51.219 --> 00:17:56.956 very, very good. It used to be great, but that might be breed into into a 00:17:56.989 --> 00:18:04.357 very funny kind of skin. I'm always thinking of of being in a somewhere in 00:18:04.390 --> 00:18:08.996 the garage and trying to build a flying machine, 00:18:09.029 --> 00:18:14.607 so it's a ridiculous in the paper. This happened. Sometimes the machines 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:19.946 would fly, so the next step is to make a machine. 00:18:19.979 --> 00:18:23.676 But for 00:18:23.709 --> 00:18:27.295 great. 00:18:27.328 --> 00:18:33.916 So not not the size, Not not, not the impact in terms of what the economy 00:18:33.949 --> 00:18:38.555 of the region or you wanna call it until you are investigating might be 00:18:38.588 --> 00:18:45.315 there is the possibility of triggering. 00:18:45.348 --> 00:18:53.348 Have we had any encouragement or evidence that there is any possibility of 00:18:53.838 --> 00:18:56.676 his mother? 00:18:56.709 --> 00:19:01.006 Well, as I was saying, my evidence is that that society is really serious 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:07.575 to be interested in what they're doing at the moment. 00:19:07.608 --> 00:19:15.117 But we we had some kind of a breakthrough, and it is small in the in the 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:20.785 church, communities in the religious community, the media community and 00:19:20.818 --> 00:19:25.065 the artist community. Those are the ones that I have responded. 00:19:25.098 --> 00:19:29.236 And that's the reason why I I tend not to believe that we should try to 00:19:29.269 --> 00:19:36.426 cater to to needs of those communities and then engage the mass for this, 00:19:36.459 --> 00:19:41.467 and it's It's not It's not a mean. It's like a coincidence of means. And 00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:47.226 then so I I feel fairly good at all. 00:19:47.259 --> 00:19:52.825 Um, but your contact with those communities has been very much within an 00:19:52.858 --> 00:19:56.387 American. 00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:58.656 Mhm. 00:19:58.689 --> 00:20:06.627 Oh, see, it's a big nation. It's a big nation. Yeah, 00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:12.387 and that there are indications that, uh, 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:20.420 the interest for for the for the arts is it still building up? 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:25.107 I 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:29.936 what? What particular relevance Do you think that these directions have, 00:20:29.969 --> 00:20:33.506 though, for, let's say, people in India. 00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:39.516 Well, as I was saying, if we could come up over there with approval 00:20:39.549 --> 00:20:45.555 community, but very rich in terms of experience and that's what they have 00:20:45.588 --> 00:20:51.656 already with in India. Yeah, but we don't have it here. And we are. We are 00:20:51.689 --> 00:20:58.045 the ones that know that 50 of yours who have Children. I mean, none of my 00:20:58.078 --> 00:21:04.426 child could make it. So we need we need to demonstrate to ourselves that, 00:21:04.459 --> 00:21:09.347 uh, we can take lessons. 00:21:09.380 --> 00:21:13.617 So, uh, from other approaches. 00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:21.650 So to to help the the under, whatever to under consumers, 00:21:24.568 --> 00:21:31.147 the best thing we can do is is to is to is my value 00:21:31.180 --> 00:21:34.186 of social 00:21:34.219 --> 00:21:39.315 in our cultural and economic 00:21:39.348 --> 00:21:44.906 go from there. 00:21:44.939 --> 00:21:52.939 What they have in India is basically the privation, 00:21:55.380 --> 00:22:03.380 and they do they do it well within. OK, the weapons 00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:08.127 and 32. 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:15.526 Best of you two, 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:22.565 as the we are now celebrating the the fifth anniversary of the Arab oil 00:22:22.598 --> 00:22:24.956 embargo 00:22:24.989 --> 00:22:32.776 has that little event. You changed your lifestyle. 00:22:32.809 --> 00:22:38.565 Mm. Yeah. I don't know, because I, uh But I think I've always been used to 00:22:38.598 --> 00:22:44.377 try to to make use of the of the sun. 00:22:44.410 --> 00:22:50.377 I like it, but quite evidently, when the the Bible came, I turned around 00:22:50.410 --> 00:22:57.196 and I tried to think of him, and I had left him away. Good. 00:22:57.229 --> 00:23:03.315 So it might have triggered in my mind other colleges and Ono, 00:23:03.348 --> 00:23:10.597 but in effect, it was a return to some level work that you've done in 00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:17.236 terms of your personal life. Didn't happen in a second. 00:23:17.269 --> 00:23:25.269 Well, we had a We never had an eight cylinder or 16 cylinder. 00:23:28.318 --> 00:23:35.926 I think that, uh, personally I genetically I think I'm I'm very 00:23:35.959 --> 00:23:43.647 And how do you think so? There wasn't any effort. 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:51.006 Do you think that it has changed you at all? Spiritually 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:57.506 you turn ideas. 00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:05.127 Well, I, I don't know I by by trying to think about the nature of of 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.377 reality and the nature of energy and so on. I came up with some ideas 00:24:08.410 --> 00:24:13.565 which I think are pretty good. Yeah, 00:24:13.598 --> 00:24:19.776 someone clustered about clustered about this this notion of 00:24:19.809 --> 00:24:23.156 this process 00:24:23.189 --> 00:24:28.315 Because I I need to find a reason. 00:24:28.348 --> 00:24:36.348 And I better find a reason which is very, very important. Not just a 00:24:36.439 --> 00:24:39.736 Would you like to define 00:24:39.769 --> 00:24:44.887 theological process. It's a word that not everyone hears. Pathology means 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:52.920 , uh, the investigation about ultimate attempt or something like that 00:24:53.009 --> 00:24:59.387 or the It's the ultimate question. Yeah, but I have my question maybe. 00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:07.420 What? Why did God create us with? I answer that God doesn't create us. We 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:16.539 create God, not creative di equivalent, the equivalent of S. 00:25:16.670 --> 00:25:19.956 So, 00:25:19.989 --> 00:25:25.967 as I was saying, my notion of, uh of theology or of religiosity is the 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:31.916 opposite of the notion of the most of the churches 00:25:31.949 --> 00:25:37.597 are not 00:25:37.630 --> 00:25:45.630 creatures fall from grace. We are creatures trying to grow 00:25:49.729 --> 00:25:57.729 work for you recently as question 00:25:58.229 --> 00:26:01.347 It, uh 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:06.436 if if I see her as as very important. 00:26:06.469 --> 00:26:13.085 So what we call justice 00:26:13.118 --> 00:26:15.585 to 00:26:15.618 --> 00:26:23.416 will be your this, uh, that we pursue. 00:26:23.449 --> 00:26:28.585 I actually really serious about it, 00:26:28.618 --> 00:26:34.325 OK, Since those things do exist, they exist only in very, very pragmatic 00:26:34.358 --> 00:26:42.358 way in very limited ways. You are trying to to imagine or to invent or to 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:48.617 simulate form the model that suggests to me that there are ways or that 00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:54.226 there is the possibility for us to participate in a in a progression that 00:26:54.259 --> 00:27:00.785 , in my opinion, about just you also. 00:27:00.818 --> 00:27:08.676 And at this point, I. I found it totally. He was in to say that the past 00:27:08.709 --> 00:27:13.805 has been unjust. But if we can only be just from now on, we got the 00:27:13.838 --> 00:27:21.706 problem solved. I think you need that justice. Then there's no way that I 00:27:21.739 --> 00:27:26.016 tell you your the task 00:27:26.049 --> 00:27:31.006 when we talk about absolute, it absolutely is absolute. The past is part 00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:35.416 of it. The capacity is is part of it. We have to find some kind of a 00:27:35.449 --> 00:27:38.426 guideline or some kind of a model that tells us that the past is going to 00:27:38.459 --> 00:27:43.956 be pleasant again some. And that's why this this idea of the or the 00:27:43.989 --> 00:27:51.736 consumption of the of the department of time sort of when all time is 00:27:51.769 --> 00:27:56.897 consumed means that all the past is present. And I called that this 00:27:56.930 --> 00:27:59.647 election 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:06.107 for 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:12.055 and all In that case, we will then be able to talk about justice 00:28:12.088 --> 00:28:18.785 and days it on. Before that, we can talk, talk about partial 00:28:18.818 --> 00:28:23.956 for this justice. And 00:28:23.989 --> 00:28:30.055 those are really very bold ambitions for someone who starts off by trying 00:28:30.088 --> 00:28:32.867 to design buildings. 00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:36.766 Well, it's not the mission of doing anything about it. I I'm, you know, 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.055 with the rest of the world. 00:28:40.088 --> 00:28:46.217 Um, I think every person needs needs to have some kind of a guideline. And 00:28:46.250 --> 00:28:51.016 , uh, the guideline is the model that you you build on your own so that 00:28:51.049 --> 00:28:56.936 you can, uh, sorry to be good, but the model. 00:28:56.969 --> 00:29:04.969 OK, sure. I'm more than the other in a state of drift. This 00:29:05.630 --> 00:29:09.696 so it's not the the very discipline of the model. It's not the truth of 00:29:09.729 --> 00:29:14.367 the model. It's important. I think. I think what's important is that the 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:20.097 capacity of the model to suggest to you a possible resolution. So they 00:29:20.130 --> 00:29:28.130 were saying I left the cuddling and and the, uh, and anticipation for some. 00:29:29.170 --> 00:29:34.295 So that's what the there is. Mine does 00:29:34.328 --> 00:29:38.585 depends to call it a revolution, but it's really an anticipation. It's an 00:29:38.618 --> 00:29:45.196 invention of needs. Sub group the means of communication 00:29:45.229 --> 00:29:53.229 that you had mentioned in your, uh, possible plans for quao the inclusion 00:29:55.098 --> 00:29:57.176 of 00:29:57.209 --> 00:30:03.387 of a screw or whatever for our pets and and building designs. 00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:08.295 What would distinguish that from the other tell that's that's a good 00:30:08.328 --> 00:30:14.295 question, because I I'm not, uh I wouldn't be able to do it much faster. 00:30:14.328 --> 00:30:18.206 Is that down on my picture? 00:30:18.239 --> 00:30:23.147 OK, well, I would like to to go, uh, more knowledgeable about those things 00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:27.867 and get them to look at it. But what? What I think would be very important 00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:35.900 is, uh, number one to connect the total with the vehicle. So the training 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:43.446 of people involved in the construction and in parallel with any conduction 00:30:43.479 --> 00:30:47.256 concerning of the designs of the tuition politicians, I think very 00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:53.295 important. In addition, as I was saying, I would like to to develop those 00:30:53.328 --> 00:31:00.897 activities of a need which is still flexible first to me, those activities 00:31:00.930 --> 00:31:03.717 of the demotion 00:31:03.750 --> 00:31:09.496 of a different approach than the consumer approach. And I think around a 00:31:09.529 --> 00:31:14.486 lot of arm and affect this country 20,000, 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:20.535 and there might be like 1% and maybe they've seen. 00:31:20.568 --> 00:31:27.565 But I can use this. I see that as the best. 00:31:27.598 --> 00:31:33.696 But I, I don't know that it has to clean up my school. 00:31:33.729 --> 00:31:39.196 But yet, if there were one associated with a and it would in some strong 00:31:39.229 --> 00:31:47.229 way be closely attached to some of your ideas Yeah, nothing. But also the 00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:54.156 the idea of being in the churches and religious 00:31:54.189 --> 00:31:56.377 levels. 00:31:56.410 --> 00:32:03.555 I see it as a very important and get to he was it? 00:32:03.588 --> 00:32:08.526 And I think the dialogue will because people 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:13.367 to So there are many facets to this idea. It's not just that you you write 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.506 , 00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:22.397 but there still is about more than that. 00:32:22.430 --> 00:32:26.387 Put him on. OK, 00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:32.766 um, that that was good. Um 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.117 and, 00:32:37.150 --> 00:32:39.347 um, 00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:43.776 just just relating this this 00:32:43.809 --> 00:32:51.809 issue for design of buildings. Mhm. But you I, I suspect you see a fairly 00:32:53.358 --> 00:33:00.226 clear evolution in your own mind. Were development from a stage in which 00:33:00.259 --> 00:33:07.545 you talked about biotechnics 00:33:07.578 --> 00:33:12.347 approach to design buildings. 00:33:12.380 --> 00:33:16.285 Well, I don't know if I 00:33:16.318 --> 00:33:21.035 you know people are coming out and say, Well, this is organic 00:33:21.068 --> 00:33:25.347 and then they look at the model of what it is not organic. I think that's 00:33:25.380 --> 00:33:33.380 taking appearances for for substance because, um, 00:33:33.910 --> 00:33:41.910 if if this means that the suburban no, 00:33:41.979 --> 00:33:47.266 if this supports the spell around, I would say this is inorganic because 00:33:47.299 --> 00:33:53.776 it doesn't respond to the organic needs of society. He started to me that 00:33:53.809 --> 00:33:56.717 I was 00:33:56.750 --> 00:33:59.847 very 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:06.206 things within the design. And then I would say That's not my instinct. 00:34:06.239 --> 00:34:11.896 What do you mean organically mean? So when I'm told that this organic 00:34:11.929 --> 00:34:15.945 that's organic, I said, Well, we are missing the point. 00:34:15.978 --> 00:34:18.827 I'm the same 00:34:18.860 --> 00:34:24.256 That is much more organic because it tries to respond to the really to the 00:34:24.289 --> 00:34:31.456 urbanism of society and possibly something else. So you would give that as 00:34:31.489 --> 00:34:39.489 a kind of a definition of organic, this ability to respond? Yeah, and I 00:34:39.550 --> 00:34:43.365 don't think that Frank and I was very far from there. I think he meant 00:34:43.398 --> 00:34:49.976 something mhm and and that's all. But But then the young, the young 00:34:50.009 --> 00:34:53.845 students began to 00:34:53.878 --> 00:34:59.807 photographs of leaves or crabs, or and he said, Well, this is organic. So 00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.747 what I'm going to do is to design something which reminds me of a crab or 00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:11.780 a the tell us. Well, that's the way to go about 00:35:12.139 --> 00:35:20.139 are organic. 00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:28.845 Everyone have questions. Was gonna say, Do some of you have some questions 00:35:28.878 --> 00:35:31.845 you like? Yeah, I have 00:35:31.878 --> 00:35:34.615 from your thing here. You also mentioned it later on about your concept of 00:35:34.648 --> 00:35:37.675 time and find time. 00:35:37.708 --> 00:35:43.106 I don't quite understand. Uh, you say that eventually, uh, all time will 00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:48.577 be compressed and will exist at once. So it seems that in that sense, the 00:35:48.610 --> 00:35:54.997 present is also existing at that time, So there really is no time as such. 00:35:55.030 --> 00:36:00.595 And so you kind of a game thing in which time zone that we view but in 00:36:00.628 --> 00:36:07.827 reality didn't exist. No, no. In fact, my contention is that time is such 00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:14.017 a part of reality that unless we take it into consideration, we with no 00:36:14.050 --> 00:36:16.077 reality 00:36:16.110 --> 00:36:22.925 uh so time is the only way by which change is happened. Because time is 00:36:22.958 --> 00:36:29.267 changed. An unchangeable, phenomenal, phenomenal phenomenon is out of time 00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:34.506 is timeless. And in a way, there are two ways of conceiving timelessness. 00:36:34.539 --> 00:36:41.445 One is the anthropic, the final anthropic still 00:36:41.478 --> 00:36:47.037 or the ultimate the transformation of the physical into the metaphysical 00:36:47.070 --> 00:36:52.486 into robots into the notion of divinity. 00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:59.736 But for both cases, you need process and process is a timely phenomenon. 00:36:59.769 --> 00:37:06.865 Yeah, but in the end, the already stopped because what you do, we're part 00:37:06.898 --> 00:37:09.876 of it is something which is which is timeless and already exist and 00:37:09.909 --> 00:37:14.066 everything. But now in the future, where we view it already exists. So 00:37:14.099 --> 00:37:17.836 actually time is always something that we view and not something that not 00:37:17.869 --> 00:37:23.026 only reality, except that in one way that I try to present a different 00:37:23.059 --> 00:37:30.606 kind of metaphors. You know, reality. One metaphor is that reality is Is 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:35.756 that question When I scrambled 00:37:35.789 --> 00:37:42.557 tourism, one is scrambled. So what we are doing in any kind of existence, 00:37:42.590 --> 00:37:48.686 try to unscramble the puzzles of the image will appear, but the image 00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:54.986 exists, but we are not able to put it together or else the image exists. 00:37:55.019 --> 00:38:01.695 But it is very by ignorance. So we have to get the best of so in those two 00:38:01.728 --> 00:38:08.595 cases, time is not really existing. Time is the way. It is a metaphor for 00:38:08.628 --> 00:38:16.628 what is happening now. So God is cleaning up the 00:38:16.789 --> 00:38:22.206 and scrambling the scrambling because of 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:26.827 but the puzzle exists. Reality has been there forever, and the fundamental 00:38:26.860 --> 00:38:34.115 is unchangeable. So time is just uh, it's not real, but my notion is 00:38:34.148 --> 00:38:40.486 different. My notion is that since the future is non existent, 00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:46.316 time is the element by which the future is created. 00:38:46.349 --> 00:38:54.349 So so the present is the urge of reality. Beyond that, age is naughtiness 00:38:57.179 --> 00:38:59.227 the challenges. 00:38:59.260 --> 00:39:04.905 So the creation of process is to to edge into this not not by the creation 00:39:04.938 --> 00:39:10.467 of process and eventually through the consumption of the media, which is 00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:18.376 mass to space, mass time space. We exhaust the possibility of change, 00:39:18.409 --> 00:39:23.486 which means we turn the the determination of time means that what has been 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:29.876 before he somehow collapse due to this last instance. 00:39:29.909 --> 00:39:33.227 Otherwise, you don't have a consumption of time. You have an exhaustion. 00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:38.537 Time has to be dating. It has happened before, has to be present in order 00:39:38.570 --> 00:39:43.296 for time to have justice through existing time. You're just adding on to 00:39:43.329 --> 00:39:51.329 two things which we are creating, creating and accumulating all we are 00:39:51.668 --> 00:39:56.566 already beginning to to technology again, to at least call. We need to 00:39:56.599 --> 00:40:02.086 recall the sounds with the images, the register, thoughts, books, and so 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:07.497 on. So there is an idea of evidence that we are beginning to reach back 00:40:07.530 --> 00:40:15.267 and prove, but we are putting our only exceptions from the past. But, uh, 00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:21.307 somehow the past is not fed the way it exists. It's just but it's it's 00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:27.175 barricaded somehow to the way because of this time sequence. Well, if this 00:40:27.208 --> 00:40:32.695 time sequence exhausts itself, then the barricades collapses 00:40:32.728 --> 00:40:40.296 and timelessness comes in. 00:40:40.329 --> 00:40:45.327 Uh, as far as, uh, evolution goes, 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:51.006 um, first you speak of, you know, the well in your mind the big bang and a 00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:55.546 certain process of evolution towards consciousness. Do you think one 00:40:55.579 --> 00:40:59.316 consciousness comes into existence? Then it's through consciousness. That 00:40:59.349 --> 00:41:03.997 evolution continues. In other words, would you say that now that man is 00:41:04.030 --> 00:41:09.296 conscious and starts having an effect on the world that, uh, evolution as 00:41:09.329 --> 00:41:16.497 far as you know, uh, physical, physical, uh, season. It doesn't cease 00:41:16.530 --> 00:41:24.530 because, uh, even now, even though we are the 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:29.945 species of New York, we are still living with with everything else which 00:41:29.978 --> 00:41:32.276 is 00:41:32.309 --> 00:41:38.586 to produce. But, uh, What the appearance of consciousness has done is to 00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:46.619 to begin to question and to begin to participate. So while this creature 00:41:46.728 --> 00:41:54.307 lives only in the present moment after moment, I we have in the past in 00:41:54.340 --> 00:42:02.340 the future because, I, I have a mind, and the mind cannot 00:42:02.938 --> 00:42:05.336 to refrain 00:42:05.369 --> 00:42:11.017 from, uh, projecting into what has been and projecting what will be. So I 00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:14.416 bring me all that tomorrow morning, I'm going to do this and this and this 00:42:14.449 --> 00:42:19.017 and you know, then you not. I'm going to do this. This and this unless 00:42:19.050 --> 00:42:22.345 catastrophe comes about. So I am not only anticipating, I'm already 00:42:22.378 --> 00:42:24.925 leaving. 00:42:24.958 --> 00:42:31.217 And once once you have that kind of animal existing, then it cannot avoid 00:42:31.250 --> 00:42:38.256 to interfere or to inject its own wheel into the evolutionary process. Do 00:42:38.289 --> 00:42:44.345 you? You, uh, you mentioned at one time that you talked. A bit of you saw 00:42:44.378 --> 00:42:49.236 the your role kind of is creating, uh, possible alternatives. Do you Do 00:42:49.269 --> 00:42:53.967 you see that as kind of, uh, the role of men in evolution create 00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:00.776 possibilities, which then, But we'll be there in the process of not being 00:43:00.809 --> 00:43:08.809 , uh, abandoned. Yeah, the the the scheming mind is a very risky 00:43:10.269 --> 00:43:12.336 instrument. 00:43:12.369 --> 00:43:19.287 And so, in a way, the more we move into into me or whatever you call it, 00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:26.175 the more the risk of, uh, of doing the wrong thing is going to be there, 00:43:26.208 --> 00:43:32.717 which is again part of the of the unavoidable anguish that we are in. But 00:43:32.750 --> 00:43:37.876 , uh, you can't. There is no way by which you can say no. We are not going 00:43:37.909 --> 00:43:40.905 to do that. We are going to behave. We are going to be the students of 00:43:40.938 --> 00:43:43.168 what exists.