WEBVTT 00:00:42.859 --> 00:00:44.859 The following is a production of K A E T TV broadcasting from the campus 00:00:48.158 --> 00:00:56.158 of Arizona State University. 00:01:03.450 --> 00:01:08.525 It is the worst drought in centuries. Reservoir levels are dropping. The 00:01:08.558 --> 00:01:13.477 populations of two southwestern cities are growing. Las Vegas and Phoenix 00:01:13.510 --> 00:01:17.676 confront their water challenges. 00:01:17.709 --> 00:01:21.025 Good evening. Welcome to this special edition of Horizon. I'm Michael 00:01:21.058 --> 00:01:24.337 Grant. Tonight, we're going to take a look at one of the most critical 00:01:24.370 --> 00:01:29.147 issues facing the Southwest. Our water supply for the next hour, we take 00:01:29.180 --> 00:01:33.587 an in depth look at water where it comes from how we're using it, whether 00:01:33.620 --> 00:01:38.555 we are conserving, we'll be joined by our PBS partner in Las Vegas, K L V 00:01:38.588 --> 00:01:42.867 X to bring you the different perspectives of two booming desert 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:49.217 communities with me. Now is my co host, Mitch Fox. Thank you, Mike and I'd 00:01:49.250 --> 00:01:53.495 also like to welcome viewers in Arizona and Nevada to this special 00:01:53.528 --> 00:01:58.087 broadcast on the drought crisis in the Southwest. It should be an 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:03.126 interesting hour during that time frame, we'll be taking an in depth look 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.786 at one of the most critical and possibly contentious issues facing lower 00:02:06.819 --> 00:02:11.666 basin states along the Colorado River in just a few moments. We'll join 00:02:11.699 --> 00:02:16.396 you folks at K E T and examine the drought from the perspectives of both 00:02:16.429 --> 00:02:20.636 states. In the meantime, I believe you have an interesting setup piece for 00:02:20.669 --> 00:02:24.186 us, Mitch do indeed. Thanks very much for being here. The Colorado River 00:02:24.219 --> 00:02:27.866 of course, has always played a very critical role in the development of 00:02:27.899 --> 00:02:31.255 the desert Southwest. But as the current drought continues to take its 00:02:31.288 --> 00:02:37.725 toll, will there be enough water to go around? The river has its origins 00:02:37.758 --> 00:02:41.805 in the watersheds of Wyoming and Colorado. By the time it has traveled 00:02:41.838 --> 00:02:46.517 some 1400 miles to the sea, it will have served more than 23 million 00:02:46.550 --> 00:02:51.106 people. Thanks to such feats of engineering as Hoover Dam in many ways, 00:02:51.139 --> 00:02:55.547 this Great River is the life's blood of the Southwest. It also has been 00:02:55.580 --> 00:03:00.005 the source of intense conflict and negotiation for much of the last 00:03:00.038 --> 00:03:05.916 century. Beginning with the Colorado River Compact of 1922 stakeholders in 00:03:05.949 --> 00:03:10.106 the river have attempted to secure their water rights in a number of ways. 00:03:10.139 --> 00:03:14.267 The compact's most significant accomplishment was to divide the Colorado 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:18.755 River basin in two at Lee's ferry, the upper basin with Wyoming, Colorado 00:03:18.788 --> 00:03:24.896 , Utah and New Mexico and the lower basin with Nevada, California and 00:03:24.929 --> 00:03:29.936 Arizona. But the architects of the compact would make a seriously flawed 00:03:29.969 --> 00:03:34.286 assumption. The commissioners at the time thought that they were working 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:39.636 with about 18 million acre feet of normal average flow in the basin. And 00:03:39.669 --> 00:03:44.427 so they conservatively allocated 7.5 million to the upper basin, 7.5 00:03:44.460 --> 00:03:47.737 million to the lower basin. And another potential million to the lower 00:03:47.770 --> 00:03:52.047 basin thinking that they were only allocating about 16 out of 18 million 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:57.366 acre feet. And the river flow might go anywhere from 4, 4.5 million acre 00:03:57.399 --> 00:04:02.005 feet per year up to 22 million acre feet per year. So there's quite a bit 00:04:02.038 --> 00:04:06.767 of variability depending on if we have a drought year or a year of heavy 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:14.800 rains and snows. The pact that was made in the 19 twenties to describe how 00:04:15.129 --> 00:04:19.046 the river would be divided up was done in a time period that we had some 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:25.546 of the wettest years in history. In 1928 the Boulder Canyon Project Act 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:29.265 authorized the construction of Hoover Dam as well as establishing the 00:04:29.298 --> 00:04:34.877 lower basin allocations of 4.4 million acre feet of water to California, 00:04:34.910 --> 00:04:41.317 300,000 to Nevada and 2.8 million to Arizona. Those amounts as well as a 00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:45.606 number of other river issues would be the subject of intense debate for 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:51.370 years to come. The of laws, treaties, regulations and court decisions that 00:04:51.403 --> 00:04:55.541 followed over the decades would comprise the law of the river which 00:04:55.574 --> 00:05:00.442 continues to evolve much like the Colorado River itself. I think the fact 00:05:00.475 --> 00:05:04.421 that we're in this long drought has brought to everyone's attention. The 00:05:04.454 --> 00:05:07.830 fact that maybe some of the decisions that were made early on are going to 00:05:07.863 --> 00:05:11.491 have to be modified from an Arizona and Nevada perspective. That means 00:05:11.524 --> 00:05:16.627 first looking at the priorities on the river, OK. We're gonna take up the 00:05:16.660 --> 00:05:20.245 issue of uh the allocation along the river in addition to the drought 00:05:20.278 --> 00:05:23.887 severity. But first, I'd like to introduce my guest here in Las Vegas. 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:28.986 First off to my left is uh Clark County Commissioner, Myrna Williams. Uh 00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:33.197 Next to her is the General Manager of the Southern Nevada Water Authority 00:05:33.230 --> 00:05:38.515 , Pat Mulroy, welcome. And finally from the University of Nevada at Las 00:05:38.548 --> 00:05:43.317 Vegas, Hal Rothman. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me, Mitch. 00:05:43.350 --> 00:05:47.687 Let's talk about those allocations. It's, it's fascinating to note that 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:54.217 uh Las Vegas uses about 5% of the river's lower basin supply. California 00:05:54.250 --> 00:05:59.765 takes about 59% and the rest is divided up between Arizona and by Mexico. 00:05:59.798 --> 00:06:03.007 I don't think a lot of people realize that that International Treaty 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.796 dictates that Mexico has an allocation. Is it time to revisit those 00:06:06.829 --> 00:06:10.317 allocations? Can they be revisited? Absolutely. It's time the the law of 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:15.015 the river has become the fiction of the river. It's uh uh in the 75 years 00:06:15.048 --> 00:06:20.336 since the, the compact was passed, it was actually passed in 1927. Um The 00:06:20.369 --> 00:06:23.745 world has changed. The, the economies of the region are different. The 00:06:23.778 --> 00:06:28.187 population distribution is is different and there was a whole spate of 00:06:28.220 --> 00:06:31.627 environmental legislation that requires water that the compact simply 00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:34.245 doesn't address and it's time to throw it out and have a new one for 00:06:34.278 --> 00:06:38.786 farmers. Point out that the 70 year history and law of the river was built 00:06:38.819 --> 00:06:43.796 to control flooding. It was primarily developed for agricultural purposes 00:06:43.829 --> 00:06:48.536 in southern California's Imperial Valley. Don't they have first right to 00:06:48.569 --> 00:06:51.976 decide what takes place based on the law of MS Mulroy. Well, the law of 00:06:52.009 --> 00:06:56.676 the river in many ways and I'm not going to go quite as radical as Hal is 00:06:56.709 --> 00:06:59.776 over here because I think there are some good parts to the compact and 00:06:59.809 --> 00:07:03.856 there are relationships and collaborative opportunities in the compact 00:07:03.889 --> 00:07:06.796 that I think need to be explored before you throw the baby out with the 00:07:06.829 --> 00:07:08.877 bath. 00:07:08.910 --> 00:07:12.476 I think the priority issue which was just mentioned in the introductory 00:07:12.509 --> 00:07:16.426 tape, which is what you're speaking to when it comes to the agricultural 00:07:16.459 --> 00:07:20.555 users, particularly in California is at the root cause of a lot of it. I 00:07:20.588 --> 00:07:25.055 mean, I understand and have always understood that between different 00:07:25.088 --> 00:07:29.455 farmers or different agricultural districts, the notion of priority 00:07:29.488 --> 00:07:33.296 protects that farmer. And I understand that, but it makes no sense between 00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:37.955 cities and it certainly makes no sense between states. So when you take a 00:07:37.988 --> 00:07:43.187 concept that works very well in one venue, and then you try to make one 00:07:43.220 --> 00:07:48.955 size fit all and make it work across the board. It usually fails as is the 00:07:48.988 --> 00:07:51.916 case with this whole notion of priority. I mean, to me it's 00:07:51.949 --> 00:07:56.265 counterintuitive that in this drought, water would be running down the 00:07:56.298 --> 00:08:00.507 streets in Los Angeles while people in Phoenix would be scrambling to have 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:04.887 water come out of their tap. I mean, that's preposterous. Is it possible 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:09.447 to revisit this and consider municipal water users in addition to the 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:15.346 agricultural uses that are currently in effect? Well, you know, I agree 00:08:15.379 --> 00:08:23.187 with both Pat and Hal, somewhere in the middle. I think there's an answer 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:30.447 of water is that's what the West fights about all the time and always has 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:36.677 thought about uh is it possible to revisit it? Who knows uh at this 00:08:36.710 --> 00:08:42.814 particular time, what we really have to be interested in is how we all get 00:08:42.847 --> 00:08:46.155 through this drought. Ok. We're going to take a look at a short clip right 00:08:46.188 --> 00:08:50.664 now. Earlier, I did an interview with the Secretary of the Interior Gail 00:08:50.697 --> 00:08:53.674 Norton and she had some thoughts along these lines. Let's take a look at 00:08:53.707 --> 00:08:58.996 this in your view. How severe a crisis are we in right now in the lower 00:08:59.029 --> 00:09:03.525 basin states? Well, we certainly have an extremely severe drought in the 00:09:03.558 --> 00:09:07.755 Colorado River basin. Our scientists have told us that this could be the 00:09:07.788 --> 00:09:14.086 worst drought in 500 years. Obviously, we have a physical condition that 00:09:14.119 --> 00:09:17.976 is causing serious problems, but we don't really have a crisis because we 00:09:18.009 --> 00:09:22.686 do have water in storage that can get us through some dry years. Ok? If 00:09:22.719 --> 00:09:27.086 the drought continues. Can you explain who would lose access to the 00:09:27.119 --> 00:09:32.866 Colorado River water and how would these reductions be implemented? Well, 00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:37.826 we're lucky that in addition to the storage, we also have a legal system 00:09:37.859 --> 00:09:43.096 that is very clear in sharing the water among the states. First of all, we 00:09:43.129 --> 00:09:48.096 don't have a situation that would cause a real cut back for another couple 00:09:48.129 --> 00:09:52.086 of years because of the water that we have in storage. The first thing 00:09:52.119 --> 00:09:58.782 that is cut back is the excess water that is being used by California and 00:09:58.815 --> 00:10:04.471 Nevada above their usual share of Colorado River water. They have had an 00:10:04.504 --> 00:10:10.130 agreement that lets them do that, especially as California ratchets down 00:10:10.163 --> 00:10:15.211 from having used more water in the past right now, they're voluntarily not 00:10:15.244 --> 00:10:21.456 using more than that. And we then would see a cut back of Arizona's water. 00:10:21.489 --> 00:10:26.125 The Central Arizona project when it was first agreed to by Congress 00:10:26.158 --> 00:10:32.775 carries a requirement that it is the first of those uses on the Colorado 00:10:32.808 --> 00:10:38.407 River to be cut back. Let's talk about the severity of the drought. There 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:41.856 may be slight disagreement as to where we are. Everyone looks at the 00:10:41.889 --> 00:10:46.177 bathtub ring at Lake Mead and, and many people are quite alarmed at how 00:10:46.210 --> 00:10:51.236 far it's gone down and are concerned about the water intake situation in 00:10:51.269 --> 00:10:54.907 terms of getting the water from Lake Mead to explain that a little bit how 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:58.875 it's impacting users in Southern Nevada. Well, we've just spent a 00:10:58.908 --> 00:11:02.476 significant amount of money lowering our first intake. Our first intake is 00:11:02.509 --> 00:11:07.645 at elevation 1050. And what we have done is we have modified our pumps and 00:11:07.678 --> 00:11:11.836 have changed our pumping strategy to where the first intake can take water 00:11:11.869 --> 00:11:15.775 from elevation 1000, which is the elevation of our second intake right now 00:11:15.808 --> 00:11:20.086 , Lake Mead is at elevation 11 28. And as you know, from our drought plan 00:11:20.119 --> 00:11:25.206 , when we hit elevation, 11 25 Southern Nevada goes into drought emergency. 00:11:25.239 --> 00:11:29.927 It's a water quality issue for us because the warmer water on the top of 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:35.015 Lake Mead because of the thermal cline is a much lesser quality than the 00:11:35.048 --> 00:11:40.686 deeper water. And if we're talking about how far mead can go down, how far 00:11:40.719 --> 00:11:45.525 will it go down and how far will we let it go down? That has some huge 00:11:45.558 --> 00:11:52.515 impact on us. Can we physically modify our intakes quickly enough? Even if 00:11:52.548 --> 00:11:56.625 you know, if all the money in the world was there, can we do it quickly 00:11:56.658 --> 00:12:00.836 enough to address the drought? Because there are those. And I think if you 00:12:00.869 --> 00:12:05.976 run some of the low flow model runs for the Colorado river two more years 00:12:06.009 --> 00:12:11.366 of 50% or less run off and Lake Powell is all but gone. You're down at 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.307 Deadpool. So now you're really relying on meat. Now, the stress is all on 00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:19.677 me. And as water planners, you don't want to be say chicken little the sky 00:12:19.710 --> 00:12:23.956 is falling but it would be irresponsible for us to not plan for the worst. 00:12:23.989 --> 00:12:28.177 And if it doesn't happen, gosh, we're lucky, but you have to be ready for 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:33.135 it. What about the difference between Nevada and Arizona? We depend more 00:12:33.168 --> 00:12:38.005 on the Colorado River than Arizona does. Is that why we're in the 00:12:38.038 --> 00:12:41.706 situation we're in right now? Well, not really. Arizona has a series of 00:12:41.739 --> 00:12:46.446 other strategies including much stronger groundwater component in their 00:12:46.479 --> 00:12:50.375 water system. But, but the real reason is the division in the 1920 s where 00:12:50.408 --> 00:12:53.307 we got 300,000 acre feet a year because there were very few people in 00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:56.537 Nevada then and they got 2.8 million. And if we had 2.8 million and they 00:12:56.570 --> 00:12:59.936 had 2.8 million, this wouldn't be quite the issue. It is for us here. You 00:12:59.969 --> 00:13:05.537 know, that's, that's state centric jingoistic uh approach to this. But, 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:08.866 but part of the problem here, part of the fall here is in the fundamental 00:13:08.899 --> 00:13:12.206 allocation that occurred in the 19 twenties. And MS Williams finally and, 00:13:12.239 --> 00:13:15.936 and, and I agree with that, I mean, there's no question about it, but when 00:13:15.969 --> 00:13:22.177 that allocation was made, there were 12 people living here and it seemed 00:13:22.210 --> 00:13:28.726 like a lot, uh nobody really had the vision back then to see what could 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:33.566 happen with the state of Nevada. I know that a lot of people in Southern 00:13:33.599 --> 00:13:37.596 Nevada feel that way and I've heard it now everywhere I go. And there's 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:43.196 some merit to what they're saying, the difficulty is taking that position 00:13:43.229 --> 00:13:47.106 in an overt way isn't going to solve the problem. We will spend the next 00:13:47.139 --> 00:13:52.576 30 years in court fighting about it and we will not make it through this 00:13:52.609 --> 00:13:58.467 drought. I would, you know, as rigid as the is, it also is flexible in 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:02.907 some ways that allows the States to work collaboratively. And I think 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.775 that's where the secret is that we need to start realizing that we're all 00:14:06.808 --> 00:14:11.496 in one watershed and that if we all work together and get rid of the old 00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:15.076 game of gotcha that we can get through this drought. I think in that 00:14:15.109 --> 00:14:19.407 regard, the secretary was right. There are, there's enough water there to 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:24.696 get us through and if we use some of our economic abilities to help 00:14:24.729 --> 00:14:29.717 mitigate perhaps what California is doing, which is buying drier options, 00:14:29.750 --> 00:14:33.476 farmers not to farm. So they're economically not hurt. We'll actually turn 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:38.326 our attention now to Phoenix and Arizona and Mike. It'll be interesting to 00:14:38.359 --> 00:14:42.616 see how your panel addresses this, this issue. Absolutely. Joining me now 00:14:42.649 --> 00:14:47.167 to continue our discussion of Colorado River issues is Herb Gunther. He's 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.736 the director of the Arizona Department of Water Resources, Sid Wilson, 00:14:50.769 --> 00:14:54.866 General Manager of the Central Arizona Project and Jack August, executive 00:14:54.899 --> 00:15:00.217 Director of the Arizona Historical Foundation at Arizona State University. 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:03.297 Jack, let me start with a historical question before we get to some of 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:08.706 those Arizona refused to sign the compact for quite some time. Why did we 00:15:08.739 --> 00:15:12.525 refuse to sign? Well, I think the answer really, Michael is a political 00:15:12.558 --> 00:15:17.336 answer and it had to do with the fact that strangely enough, Arizona was 00:15:17.369 --> 00:15:22.525 dominated by a group of states rights Democrats in the 19 twenties at the 00:15:22.558 --> 00:15:28.066 time of the signing of the compact, and they viewed the Colorado River 00:15:28.099 --> 00:15:34.326 within Arizona as a proprietary right of their own. And so there were a 00:15:34.359 --> 00:15:38.316 couple of people who reminded me of old Fred Coulter, but certainly 00:15:38.349 --> 00:15:43.456 Governor Hunt G W P Hunt and one of his advisors, a man named George 00:15:43.489 --> 00:15:49.566 Maxwell, who was a rather profligate propagandist for irrigation. He kind 00:15:49.599 --> 00:15:53.167 of made his living running around and champion irrigation, got the 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:58.186 governor's ear and we had a state's rights approach while our 00:15:58.219 --> 00:16:01.996 congressional delegation for the most part had a broader regional concept 00:16:02.029 --> 00:16:06.297 that was embodied in the Colorado River compact. So we were at loggerheads 00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:13.976 within for really about two decades, said, how secure is our allocation? 00:16:14.009 --> 00:16:20.307 We get the junior water. Right. Right. Uh That's true. Uh Arizona has an 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:27.275 entitlement to 2.8 million acre feet. Uh 1.3 million of that is uh along 00:16:27.308 --> 00:16:31.297 the Colorado River has been in use for a long time and it's a secure 00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:38.706 supply. The 1.5 million is the Central Arizona project supply which we 00:16:38.739 --> 00:16:44.496 deliver through a manmade river. 336 miles in length running uphill to 00:16:44.529 --> 00:16:50.265 Maricopa County, metropolitan Phoenix, Pal County, which is still heavily 00:16:50.298 --> 00:16:57.186 agricultural based but urbanizing and Pima County with the city of Tucson. 00:16:57.219 --> 00:17:02.927 So the, the risk here and one that we frankly thought was much further 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:09.426 off what is during times of shortage because the, the compromise that 00:17:09.459 --> 00:17:15.016 Arizona had to make in order to get C A P authorized and funded was one in 00:17:15.049 --> 00:17:21.065 which we went from having an equal status on the river to a junior uh 00:17:21.098 --> 00:17:26.545 priority status in order to get C A P through Congress because we were a 00:17:26.578 --> 00:17:32.196 threat to California. Ok. Let me play out the scenario they were talking 00:17:32.229 --> 00:17:40.229 about in Las Vegas pals. A puddle means under stress. Does that mean the 00:17:40.769 --> 00:17:46.857 first wax that start occurring are a million, five drops to a million, two 00:17:46.890 --> 00:17:51.996 drops to 900,000 and so on. Is that, is that what we're talking about that 00:17:52.029 --> 00:17:57.565 that could be under the worst possible scenario, Arizona would lose its 00:17:57.598 --> 00:18:02.565 entire 1.5 million acre feet. You know, a water supply for the fifth or 00:18:02.598 --> 00:18:07.516 sixth largest city in the US before California loses a drop. Now, 00:18:07.549 --> 00:18:14.196 hopefully it won't uh develop that starkly because we're in the process of 00:18:14.229 --> 00:18:18.795 meetings and discussions between the Southern basin states. I think Pat 00:18:18.828 --> 00:18:24.107 Mulroy alluded to the effort to figure out how to operate within the 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:30.526 parameters of the Colorado River compact to, to, to meet everybody's needs. 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.325 At least enough to get through this drought doesn't mean that it'll be 00:18:33.358 --> 00:18:39.266 pain free her. Why don't we? And by we, I mean, Nevada and California, why 00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:44.137 don't we just simply declare war on California and, and turn this thing 00:18:44.170 --> 00:18:49.176 around? Well, that's why we reinstituted the Arizona Navy uh last year. 00:18:49.209 --> 00:18:53.956 But uh we, we chose, we choose not to use that because we, we rethink it 00:18:53.989 --> 00:18:57.315 though. I mean, more serious, more serious question. The law of the river 00:18:57.348 --> 00:19:03.776 , the priorities, the law, Michael is basically what uh the basin states 00:19:03.809 --> 00:19:08.946 agree. The law is quite honestly, the law of the river is the framework of 00:19:08.979 --> 00:19:14.867 the box. And uh the basin states get together and decide. Well, what does 00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:19.446 this really mean? And uh here's flexible. Are we within that box? Here's, 00:19:19.479 --> 00:19:25.176 here's my hunch. California and agricultural interests are going to say 00:19:25.209 --> 00:19:32.075 the box is we get ours and am I wrong in that assumption? Uh No, I think 00:19:32.108 --> 00:19:37.597 that uh again, I think Pat Mulroy was on target. If, if, if we can't come 00:19:37.630 --> 00:19:42.607 to some kind of a uh consensus within the basin states, we're going to 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.335 litigate it at infinitum, which means nobody wins. And the problem is not 00:19:47.368 --> 00:19:50.526 solved for the short term, which is the immediate drought and the 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:54.946 conditions of that drought. Jack quick uh historical look is the law of 00:19:54.979 --> 00:19:58.656 the river. Is it constantly negotiable? I, I think so, I think it's 00:19:58.689 --> 00:20:01.967 constantly negotiable and I think I agree with her that it's what the 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:09.045 basin states believe it is. I agree, gentlemen, thanks. Um Mitch, like the 00:20:09.078 --> 00:20:14.147 Phoenix area, Las Vegas has been enjoying or if you will suffering from 00:20:14.180 --> 00:20:18.357 phenomenal growth. Um The water supply doesn't seem to be keeping pace, I 00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:23.617 guess. Interesting. We have different stresses because of the growth issue 00:20:23.650 --> 00:20:28.847 here and we're going to take that up in our segment right now. Before we 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.315 get into the discussion, we do have a take piece. We'd like to take a look 00:20:32.348 --> 00:20:37.476 at right now. So please roll that in the driest desert in America, Las 00:20:37.509 --> 00:20:41.726 Vegas has been converted into a sprawling metropolis. One of the fastest 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.085 growing areas in the nation, Southern Nevada is challenged to provide 00:20:45.118 --> 00:20:49.916 enough water for the 6000 people moving in every month and the 300,000 00:20:49.949 --> 00:20:55.847 visitors each weekend. In 1931 only 6000 people lived in Las Vegas and in 00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.996 just over seven decades, the population has grown to over 1.5 million. If 00:21:01.029 --> 00:21:04.967 this trend continues, the population will reach two million within 10 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.805 years. Historically, forecasts of growth and water demands have been 00:21:08.838 --> 00:21:12.835 underestimated growth along with its unpredictability. Present many 00:21:12.868 --> 00:21:18.607 challenges. Do we want more traffic congestion? Do we want more loss of 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:24.656 open space? Do we want poor degrading air quality? Those are some of the 00:21:24.689 --> 00:21:28.967 issues that our community needs to consider as well as where we're going 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:34.085 to get additional water to continue this growth. While some say this 00:21:34.118 --> 00:21:37.785 growth must be stopped. Others say curbing the population would devastate 00:21:37.818 --> 00:21:42.456 Nevada's economy. Once you tell people that they can't move in here, then 00:21:42.489 --> 00:21:45.867 you don't build the home. And if you don't build the home, then you don't 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:49.597 have your construction worker working, you don't have your restaurateur 00:21:49.630 --> 00:21:54.006 selling to them. You don't have your butcher cutting meat for your 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:58.397 restaurant tour. It's like it's just a one continual tale that would take 00:21:58.430 --> 00:22:02.676 place of destruction. So we have to make sure that we continue to grow. As 00:22:02.709 --> 00:22:07.127 I say, the growth must be sustainable, but we have to grow as Las Vegas 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.857 continues to grow. So will the debate about how to handle and conserve our 00:22:10.890 --> 00:22:16.967 most precious resource reporting for KL VX? I'm Lindsey Adams. 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:20.446 We're going to take up this issue of growth in both communities. But first 00:22:20.479 --> 00:22:25.686 , I'd like to introduce a new guest, Amanda Cyphers. She's a city 00:22:25.719 --> 00:22:29.035 councilman with the city of Henderson. Welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. 00:22:29.068 --> 00:22:33.436 I think the big question on everybody's mind is can we sustain this level 00:22:33.469 --> 00:22:37.456 of growth in our community and not impact the water supply, MS Williams? 00:22:37.489 --> 00:22:43.035 Well, the one thing that we want to do with water is maintain reliability 00:22:43.068 --> 00:22:51.068 , we can do it by conservation, we can do it by uh working with other 00:22:54.449 --> 00:22:59.627 states in the lower basin. Uh Reality tells us that we are all 00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:06.946 interdependent. The lower basin states. Our economies feed each other and 00:23:06.979 --> 00:23:12.857 consequently, it's in the best interest of all of us to work together to 00:23:12.890 --> 00:23:20.446 make sure that we can sustain as long as possible. Now, recognizing that 00:23:20.479 --> 00:23:28.479 growth like drought is cyclical and so to suggest that forever, it would 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:33.717 go on this way would make no sense at all. Let me address that question to 00:23:33.750 --> 00:23:37.535 you, Miss Ciphers, particularly in Henderson. There's a lot of growth 00:23:37.568 --> 00:23:42.936 taking place out there. Is it responsible to continue along those lines, 00:23:42.969 --> 00:23:47.486 taking into account the water supply and where we have to go to get 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:52.565 additional water, we will be growing and I truly believe we will sustain 00:23:52.598 --> 00:23:56.986 growth, the way that we grow in the future will change a bit when, when 00:23:57.019 --> 00:24:01.285 you look at our um usage or are in the residential homes, our usage that 00:24:01.318 --> 00:24:06.936 we have the, the water that we use inside our homes, we get back um and 00:24:06.969 --> 00:24:10.795 clean and bring it right back to you almost gallon per gallon. So growth 00:24:10.828 --> 00:24:16.367 really doesn't impact on our water um allocation in in what we have. But 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:20.026 what we find out is is how we use our water outside. That seems to be the 00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:24.176 use. So as we will continue to grow, it's going to look a little bit 00:24:24.209 --> 00:24:27.986 different. You're gonna find less turf areas, you're going to find more 00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:32.887 zero escape, smaller yards. Um but we will continue to grow and we can 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:35.776 sustain it. We will do it right. I know we will miss Mulroy from the 00:24:35.809 --> 00:24:38.805 outside. A lot of people see the canals, the Venetian, the Bellagio 00:24:38.838 --> 00:24:42.186 Fountains and they think, oh, Las Vegas, they're just out of control. 00:24:42.219 --> 00:24:46.906 Explain this whole issue, isn't it? Just about grass? It is, it's all 00:24:46.939 --> 00:24:51.347 about landscaping. I mean, Amanda said it um uh the impact of growth on 00:24:51.380 --> 00:24:55.597 our water supply is a function of landscaping period. Um I have spent the 00:24:55.630 --> 00:25:00.325 better part of 15 years trying to explain water use on the Las Vegas Strip. 00:25:00.358 --> 00:25:05.315 And the best way to explain it is that all the use on the strip, they use 00:25:05.348 --> 00:25:10.186 it very differently from residential. They use 80% inside, 20% outside. So 00:25:10.219 --> 00:25:16.127 80% generates a return flow credit or is recycled through a reuse facility. 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:20.416 And the water that is used outside is so negligible. Most of it, the 00:25:20.449 --> 00:25:24.117 large ones that everybody loves to flog the Bellagio Fountain and the 00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:30.467 Mirage Fountain and those big ones and Steve Wynn's new property, those 00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:36.815 private water rights, you know, we can't touch those. They only use 3% of 00:25:36.848 --> 00:25:41.097 all the water in southern Nevada, the entire Las Vegas Strip inside and 00:25:41.130 --> 00:25:45.776 outside and with that, they generate over 70% of the state's gross product. 00:25:45.809 --> 00:25:50.071 Well, we'll turn our attention now to Phoenix and I believe you're going 00:25:50.104 --> 00:25:53.141 to have some panelists take up this very issue in your area. That's 00:25:53.174 --> 00:25:56.651 absolutely true. But first, we'll give you a little background as we 00:25:56.684 --> 00:26:01.772 continue to grow and reap the benefits of development. Are we facing up to 00:26:01.805 --> 00:26:05.887 our potential water woes. 00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:10.107 Like many communities in the southwest, the Phoenix metropolitan area has 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:15.686 been expanding at a breakneck pace between 1955 and 2000 population. 00:26:15.719 --> 00:26:19.627 Numbers in the Valley of the Sun increased 10 fold to over three million 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:23.986 with no end in sight. But as the region plunges deeper into drought, there 00:26:24.019 --> 00:26:27.815 remains some question as to the best strategy for meeting our escalating 00:26:27.848 --> 00:26:35.206 need for water. We've spent literally decades constructing a growth 00:26:35.239 --> 00:26:40.426 machine that operates on the assumption that we will grow, we will grow as 00:26:40.459 --> 00:26:44.236 much as we can and we will send our water guys out to build the plumbing 00:26:44.269 --> 00:26:49.065 systems and find the water and make it work. There are two overarching 00:26:49.098 --> 00:26:52.926 prevailing theories of of of the relationship between water and 00:26:52.959 --> 00:26:57.986 development. One is that water flows to money and therefore development 00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:02.946 will continue as long as it can, can you know, fund a water supply. The 00:27:02.979 --> 00:27:07.617 other theory of course is this theory of sustainability and that is you 00:27:07.650 --> 00:27:12.825 should be cognizant in your planning for development. Uh For the fact that 00:27:12.858 --> 00:27:17.607 that every time you add a body in a building, you're going to be tapping 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:22.347 into the water supply at present. The valley's water users as a whole are 00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:26.535 the beneficiaries of a diverse water portfolio that places them in better 00:27:26.568 --> 00:27:31.055 stead than most other large western communities in the Phoenix area. The 00:27:31.088 --> 00:27:35.045 primary sources of water come from the Salt River project with its surface 00:27:35.078 --> 00:27:39.456 flows, the Central Arizona project and its share of the Colorado River and 00:27:39.489 --> 00:27:44.295 groundwater wells. Yet observers caution that despite such an abundant 00:27:44.328 --> 00:27:49.406 supply, it would be unwise to become complacent. We've never really wanted 00:27:49.439 --> 00:27:54.916 to talk about how much water do we have, how much growth can we sustain? 00:27:54.949 --> 00:28:01.756 We ought to try to get some kind of handle on a potential worst case 00:28:01.789 --> 00:28:06.176 scenario and how we go about planning for dealing with that. I think it's 00:28:06.209 --> 00:28:11.276 very important in doing that, that we make very deliberate and intelligent 00:28:11.309 --> 00:28:15.867 choices here to talk about valley growth in our water supply is Rita 00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:20.656 Maguire. She's president and CEO of think A Z. She's also former director 00:28:20.689 --> 00:28:24.467 of the Arizona Department of Water Resources and Claude Maddox Phoenix 00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:28.147 City Councilman for District five. He's also chair of the Natural 00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:32.476 Resources subcommittee. Good to see both of you. You know, it seems to me 00:28:32.509 --> 00:28:37.637 that a large part of this problem is we have operated for a long time, 00:28:37.670 --> 00:28:42.736 Rita on an assumption that we just grow, we'll build buildings, we'll put 00:28:42.769 --> 00:28:49.026 people in them and water will be there. And I do, we need a basic mind 00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:54.226 reconstruct here. I've got to say Arizona has lagged a little bit with our 00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:58.766 neighbors in California and Nevada in terms of actively recognizing in the 00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:02.982 recent media stories, the need to conserve. We, we haven't been as 00:29:03.015 --> 00:29:06.680 aggressive as maybe the other communities. But on the other hand, we did 00:29:06.713 --> 00:29:10.772 our homework early on, we invested very wisely in some very state of the 00:29:10.805 --> 00:29:15.190 art technology with the Water Bank Authority, with recharge facilities 00:29:15.223 --> 00:29:19.472 with exchanges. I mean, there's lots of things that Arizona has done that 00:29:19.505 --> 00:29:24.631 plan for the future. But to be prudent, we need to really start to think 00:29:24.664 --> 00:29:29.035 about conservation as an everyday part of our life. 00:29:29.068 --> 00:29:33.246 You were making the point Claude before we went on the air. However, that 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:40.107 interestingly enough, it is growth and the money that flows from growth 00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:47.075 that provides some of the money for us to pursue other strategies. The 00:29:47.108 --> 00:29:51.285 city of Phoenix has been focused on this for many, many years and, and 00:29:51.318 --> 00:29:57.026 working with Rita and others, we have developed conservation plans. We've 00:29:57.059 --> 00:30:00.256 been educating the public. You had mentioned that more recently, you're 00:30:00.289 --> 00:30:03.325 becoming more cognizant of it and that's part of an education plan that's 00:30:03.358 --> 00:30:09.335 been out there talking to people about conservation about lifestyle, which 00:30:09.368 --> 00:30:12.637 is a little bit different than a drought plan, which is more drastic 00:30:12.670 --> 00:30:16.877 behavioral changes. Phoenix has been anticipating growth. We've been 00:30:16.910 --> 00:30:20.936 anticipating how we're going to accommodate that as far as water use is 00:30:20.969 --> 00:30:25.815 concerned. And part of that has been funded by the development community. 00:30:25.848 --> 00:30:31.656 Phoenix is focused on specifically on growth areas which concentrates 00:30:31.689 --> 00:30:36.496 residential and commercial development in specific areas and that helps us 00:30:36.529 --> 00:30:42.785 to put the infrastructure in that helps us to provide uh the population 00:30:42.818 --> 00:30:46.825 that then gives us water that we can recycle and reuse. So there's a, 00:30:46.858 --> 00:30:51.887 there's a kind of a hand in hand growth and water reuse development 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:58.026 process going on. Breda Phoenix really has fairly cheap water compared to 00:30:58.059 --> 00:31:02.347 other cities. Might one of the solutions be this simple price, the 00:31:02.380 --> 00:31:08.815 commodity at its value and the market oftentimes very wonderful mechanism 00:31:08.848 --> 00:31:14.226 , it will, it will sort it out, it will send it to the right users or uses 00:31:14.259 --> 00:31:18.295 and it won't send it to the wrong users. Absolutely true. Research, 00:31:18.328 --> 00:31:21.736 consumer surveys, whatnot have shown over and over again, that price 00:31:21.769 --> 00:31:26.607 mechanisms are the most effective method of conservation. It's good to 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:31.436 have the repeated message of low water use, plumbing fixtures, zero escape 00:31:31.469 --> 00:31:35.617 and those are all very important. But ultimately, when the pocketbook is 00:31:35.650 --> 00:31:39.206 affected, that's when consumers make the decision to be much more careful 00:31:39.239 --> 00:31:42.825 and cautious about their water use. You know, I get the impression though 00:31:42.858 --> 00:31:46.936 that even though we are in by some estimates, the eighth or ninth year of 00:31:46.969 --> 00:31:51.476 this drought, the the the public and I don't want to leave this in general. 00:31:51.509 --> 00:31:56.295 I think most of us still don't, still don't get it. For example, how, how 00:31:56.328 --> 00:32:01.325 has the city been responding to the to the request for a 5% voluntary 00:32:01.358 --> 00:32:06.026 cutback? Well or not very well as a matter of fact, now that that is our 00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:10.717 first phase of our drought plan. The city, it's, it's actually a 5% 00:32:10.750 --> 00:32:14.805 mandatory for the city of Phoenix. As far as the government entity is 00:32:14.838 --> 00:32:20.545 concerned, it's 5% voluntary for the public. In general. City of Phoenix 00:32:20.578 --> 00:32:28.578 itself has met, met and exceeded our 5%. Last year's usage was 11% or we 00:32:28.650 --> 00:32:34.026 saved 11% over that one year. The general public, we're hitting that 5%. 00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:38.436 So people are, people are starting to hear the message. Um And of course, 00:32:38.469 --> 00:32:44.045 5% isn't exactly a, a major target goal. Well, no, I mean, it's, it's, it 00:32:44.078 --> 00:32:48.085 is, this is a step by step process. I mean, if we went in and said you got 00:32:48.118 --> 00:32:51.877 to cut 50% of your water use, people wouldn't know how to deal with that. 00:32:51.910 --> 00:32:55.736 What we're doing is we are educating the public on how to address this 00:32:55.769 --> 00:32:59.857 issue and we're trying to provide them with a way that they can do it 00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:05.266 comfortably. When, when the problem gets to a point where it has to be 00:33:05.299 --> 00:33:08.986 uncomfortable, then we will implement something that's going to be a very 00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:12.627 , very much more drastic rita, a lot of this is just a function of 00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:16.897 political will. Is it not? I mean, I believe up in Las Vegas, I'm sure 00:33:16.930 --> 00:33:20.357 they'll talk about this but, you know, they, they have restrictions on 00:33:20.390 --> 00:33:24.246 when you can wash your car and when you can water your lawn and for that 00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:28.065 matter, maybe whether you can, you can have a lawn politically. We got the 00:33:28.098 --> 00:33:33.065 , we got the will to, you know, go that way. Well, you can look at a 00:33:33.098 --> 00:33:36.416 recent example. Uh Governor Hull appointed a Groundwater Management 00:33:36.449 --> 00:33:40.776 commission about four years ago. It met for two years and spent a lot of 00:33:40.809 --> 00:33:45.377 time looking at not only the urban parts of the state's water needs, but 00:33:45.410 --> 00:33:49.440 the rural parts and made certain recommends. But quite frankly, I don't 00:33:49.473 --> 00:33:53.910 think there was a level of focus and attention on the drought condition. I 00:33:53.943 --> 00:33:57.611 suspect if that groundwater commission were meeting today, given the 00:33:57.644 --> 00:34:00.910 amount of coverage and interest in this topic, there might be a great deal 00:34:00.943 --> 00:34:04.776 more political will to take those recommendations and put them into action. 00:34:04.809 --> 00:34:09.385 It's all a matter of timing with any issue as you well know, life, life 00:34:09.418 --> 00:34:13.747 and politics is timing. It is indeed, you know, can I just make one 00:34:13.780 --> 00:34:17.276 comment in that regard? The city of Phoenix is in the process of 00:34:17.309 --> 00:34:21.827 reevaluating our drought plan. We are taking education as far as it can go. 00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:26.635 We will have to start making more drastic measures and taking more strong 00:34:26.668 --> 00:34:30.515 positions regarding this. So Phoenix realizes that this is not something 00:34:30.548 --> 00:34:33.535 you can just continue to kind of walk through. We're gonna have to start 00:34:33.568 --> 00:34:37.434 making some hard decisions, man. Thanks for being here. Good to see you 00:34:37.467 --> 00:34:42.035 again, Mitch. Um Unlike the valley, as I mentioned, I understand Las Vegas 00:34:42.068 --> 00:34:48.756 has adopted a number of water use restrictions, right? That's correct. We 00:34:48.789 --> 00:34:52.385 have a slightly different approach to conservation here in Las Vegas, 00:34:52.418 --> 00:34:56.215 probably out of necessity and we do have a background report on that. Take 00:34:56.248 --> 00:34:58.695 a look at this 00:34:58.728 --> 00:35:02.635 as tourists pour into the Las Vegas Valley water pours into the numerous 00:35:02.668 --> 00:35:07.066 attractions. The Vegas Strip is famous for Bellagio Fountain is one of the 00:35:07.099 --> 00:35:12.175 most popular using 27 million gallons of water. But away from the strip, 00:35:12.208 --> 00:35:16.695 residents understand that an endless supply of water in Nevada is just a 00:35:16.728 --> 00:35:20.885 mirage. The southern Nevada Water Authority declared a drought alert for 00:35:20.918 --> 00:35:24.856 the Las Vegas Valley asking residents and business owners to reduce water 00:35:24.889 --> 00:35:29.396 consumption. Washing a personal vehicle on residential property is limited 00:35:29.429 --> 00:35:33.717 to once per week per vehicle and requires a positive shut off nozzle on 00:35:33.750 --> 00:35:37.845 the hose. Businesses use of mist systems is restricted to June through 00:35:37.878 --> 00:35:42.206 August between noon and 10 pm. Residential landscape, watering is 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.646 prohibited between 11 AM and seven PM. Water restrictions play an 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:51.626 important role in water conservation if we can reduce water use, 00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:55.345 especially outdoors in the urban landscape. That's a significant part of 00:35:55.378 --> 00:35:58.936 the total water that's used in the valley. There are other restrictions 00:35:58.969 --> 00:36:04.017 that perhaps are more symbolic such as water use and misters and fountains 00:36:04.050 --> 00:36:09.186 , but every drop of water is precious and I think it demonstrates good 00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:13.445 stewardship and it's a good message to send to our Children. The Water 00:36:13.478 --> 00:36:17.316 authority has also implemented a water smart rebate program that pays 00:36:17.349 --> 00:36:21.336 residents and businesses to replace turf grass with desert landscaping. 00:36:21.369 --> 00:36:25.037 The program has been successful. More than a football field worth of grass 00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:30.595 is being removed every day. In 2003, this added up to over 58,000 acre 00:36:30.628 --> 00:36:35.086 feet of water being saved. Conserving now allows the time needed to 00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:40.256 develop other water resources for the future reporting for KV. I'm Lindsay 00:36:40.289 --> 00:36:42.546 Adams. 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.736 It's kind of interesting polls show that the public actually supports 00:36:45.769 --> 00:36:48.986 these conservation members and they have been successful. Is that true? 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:54.695 That is true. And uh I was just talking with Pat, we, we have conserved uh 00:36:54.728 --> 00:37:02.206 about 23%. I was interested in hearing 5% from Phoenix, but in, we've done 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:08.526 some other things in addition to that. Um for example, uh as new 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:13.747 communities blossom, uh they're not being approved unless they use uh 00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:20.997 drought resistant landscaping. Uh That's, that's very important. Uh 00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:29.030 Phoenix uh like us, we get uh many of our residents come from the Midwest 00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:35.316 and the east and don't understand the desert they come in and they think 00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:41.095 they're going to put in their lush lawns and yards and uh water day and 00:37:41.128 --> 00:37:46.425 night. Uh But there has to be some way to tell them and that's the 00:37:46.458 --> 00:37:51.557 county's way of telling them. Uh No, if you want to build, you're not 00:37:51.590 --> 00:37:59.590 gonna build with those lush lawns and uh water uh sopping up uh conditions. 00:38:01.438 --> 00:38:03.905 We're not gonna allow that. It's kind of interesting though. There's 00:38:03.938 --> 00:38:09.856 distinct difference in approach between Phoenix and Las Vegas. Uh, Tempe 00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:16.526 has created this 220 acre lake to its downtown. It has a beach and the 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:19.577 boating facilities and so forth. Can you think of a day where that would 00:38:19.610 --> 00:38:24.425 happen in Las Vegas? Well, we have three such lakes and then we all the 00:38:24.458 --> 00:38:28.925 entities put a moratorium on any more such lakes couldn't undo what was 00:38:28.958 --> 00:38:34.595 already there. I think it's, you know, we're talking about the individual 00:38:34.628 --> 00:38:39.206 pieces. We got to look at the macro. I mean, whether it's pricing, whether 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:43.126 it's telling people how to use water, probably the single most important 00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:46.896 thing that's come out of all of this is an awareness by people of their 00:38:46.929 --> 00:38:51.517 water supply. People in Phoenix, people in Las Vegas, you turn the tap on 00:38:51.550 --> 00:38:56.287 and waters come out. They haven't thought about it at all. This drought is 00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:01.577 functioning as a great wake up call for us to begin to take water far more 00:39:01.610 --> 00:39:05.425 seriously than we have in the past and look what Las Vegas was able to do 00:39:05.458 --> 00:39:11.816 in one year, we went from an expected water use of 330,000 acre feet to 00:39:11.849 --> 00:39:18.557 273. And that despite 6000 people a month moving, that tells you that 00:39:18.590 --> 00:39:24.086 water use and growth don't necessarily track on the same line. But Miss 00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:27.675 Ciphers isn't also a case where we depend on the Colorado River more than 00:39:27.708 --> 00:39:31.706 Phoenix. Phoenix has other water sources and so they're not feeling the 00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:36.566 pinch like we are. I, I would, I would definitely definitely agree with 00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:40.856 you Mitch. And, and that's obviously why we're looking into, um, in state 00:39:40.889 --> 00:39:45.217 water resources in the future and why that is so important. But as, as Pat 00:39:45.250 --> 00:39:48.425 has said, you know, the people have really stepped up to the plate and 00:39:48.458 --> 00:39:51.796 have done their, their fair share and, and they're continually doing more. 00:39:51.829 --> 00:39:56.577 We are removing on an average of a football field a day of turf within 00:39:56.610 --> 00:40:01.195 the Vegas Valley. People have really doing their part and, and even though 00:40:01.228 --> 00:40:04.731 that we're in drought alert, we, we still how drought emergency that we 00:40:04.764 --> 00:40:08.271 will be seeing and there will be new regulations and we have new angles to 00:40:08.304 --> 00:40:13.251 look at. But we, it's a moving target where we're looking at making the 00:40:13.284 --> 00:40:17.470 drought as easy as possible, but still very effective to get us through 00:40:17.503 --> 00:40:20.622 what we need to do. And people are, are buckling down and they're doing 00:40:20.655 --> 00:40:24.001 their part and, and it's been a wonderful process for all of us. It's been 00:40:24.034 --> 00:40:27.392 an educational process. So how to use water more wisely? All right, I'm 00:40:27.425 --> 00:40:31.122 gonna turn to my counterpart Grant who I believe is going to have a 00:40:31.155 --> 00:40:35.175 discussion on predicting this drought, how long it's going to go and how 00:40:35.208 --> 00:40:38.486 severe it's going to be. It should be interesting, Mike. Yeah, I think so 00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.945 and I'm sure we'll be accurate as we predict the weather but you know, 00:40:41.978 --> 00:40:46.767 we're hoping for a great monsoon. It is approaching. We hope and we wait 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:51.546 expectantly for the rains to come. But will they bring us the relief that 00:40:51.579 --> 00:40:56.767 we need? By most accounts, the drought that currently grips the southwest 00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:02.787 began in 1995 after some three decades of unusually abundant precipitation. 00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:06.416 And while desert dwellers became accustomed to the plentiful moisture 00:41:06.449 --> 00:41:11.247 experts and resource managers alike were anticipating the inevitable cycle 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.626 of dryness that was to come. Everyone knew a big drought was coming. We 00:41:14.659 --> 00:41:19.256 didn't know when we are clearly in territory that we have not been in 00:41:19.289 --> 00:41:23.405 since Salt River project was created 101 years ago. We've never 00:41:23.438 --> 00:41:28.481 experienced a nine year drought before. I've seen from data that's deduced 00:41:28.514 --> 00:41:32.441 from tree ring records and the like the drought that we're experiencing is 00:41:32.474 --> 00:41:36.521 about as dry as it's ever been that goes back some 1200 years. The drought 00:41:36.554 --> 00:41:40.932 has affected Arizona's watersheds dramatically. Major rivers such as the 00:41:40.965 --> 00:41:45.336 Salt and the Verde have received the least amount of run off ever recorded. 00:41:45.369 --> 00:41:48.425 And that's very bad news for those who are charged with maintaining the 00:41:48.458 --> 00:41:52.436 water supply of Central Arizona, including that most critical of 00:41:52.469 --> 00:41:57.776 reservoirs, Roosevelt Lake. If it stays dry, Roosevelt could in fact be 00:41:57.809 --> 00:42:02.557 dry. And we have been very fortunate in the last five years or so that we 00:42:02.590 --> 00:42:06.756 have been able to purchase water that would have gone unused because CP 00:42:06.789 --> 00:42:10.666 didn't have the demand for it. Had we not been able to purchase that water 00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:15.017 Roosevelt Lake would have gone dry already. Unfortunately, neither the 00:42:15.050 --> 00:42:19.416 desert skies nor climate prediction models offer any reason for optimism 00:42:19.449 --> 00:42:23.787 and weather forecasters are anticipating a prolonged dry spell. It's our 00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:28.135 belief that we're going to have dry years more frequently than wet years 00:42:28.168 --> 00:42:32.316 in the coming decade. This is a dry time and it's not going to turn around 00:42:32.349 --> 00:42:34.977 and get wet all of a sudden, we're going to have to deal with this for 00:42:35.010 --> 00:42:39.717 years to come. Even the large reservoirs on the Colorado can't go on 00:42:39.750 --> 00:42:44.506 forever and those reservoirs are now at about 50% capacity. If the drought 00:42:44.539 --> 00:42:48.747 continues for a few more years, we may in fact see some shortages even on 00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:51.845 the Central Arizona project, I'm planning for this drought to last at 00:42:51.878 --> 00:42:55.316 least until 2010 00:42:55.349 --> 00:42:58.026 with me now to talk about the potential impacts of the drought. What's 00:42:58.059 --> 00:43:01.845 being done in relation to the water supply is John Sullivan, he's the 00:43:01.878 --> 00:43:05.666 Associate General manager of the Water group for the Salt River Project. 00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:08.655 And returning to the panel is Herb Gunther, director of the Arizona 00:43:08.688 --> 00:43:12.615 Department of Water Resources and Sid Wilson, General Manager of the 00:43:12.648 --> 00:43:18.126 Central Arizona Project. And since none of us are meteorologists, let's go 00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:23.095 way out on the limb here. What are you hearing from, from your guys in 00:43:23.128 --> 00:43:26.615 terms of long range forecasts? Because I know I've heard some speculation 00:43:26.648 --> 00:43:31.405 that maybe we've got, maybe we have 30 year boom and bust cycles now. 00:43:31.438 --> 00:43:37.506 Maybe they're not seven year boom and bust cycles. Well, what I know is 00:43:37.539 --> 00:43:43.296 what I've heard from. Folks who specialize in studying tree rings, folks 00:43:43.329 --> 00:43:49.006 who specialize in climatology and what's happening and, and they tell us 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:53.086 that this last five years has been the wettest, five year period in 12 to 00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:58.236 1400 years. However, they also tell us that when the wettest or the driest 00:43:58.269 --> 00:44:05.046 , excuse me. Uh and they, they also tell us that uh there's a good chance 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:11.077 that it'll remain dry for another 10, 15 years, doesn't mean every single 00:44:11.110 --> 00:44:16.456 year during a drought period will be dry. But overall, it'll be quite dry. 00:44:16.489 --> 00:44:19.675 And maybe as we look into the future, we'll find that the last 100 years 00:44:19.708 --> 00:44:24.155 , as I think herb mentioned earlier has been the wettest in the last 1000 00:44:24.188 --> 00:44:30.506 years or so. So the reservoir system that we have is critically important 00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:34.626 both within state, the Salt River project and on the Colorado River 00:44:34.659 --> 00:44:39.836 because uh those Colorado river reservoirs went from essentially Brim full 00:44:39.869 --> 00:44:46.155 , 1999 to half full uh this year. So it's critical that we be able to 00:44:46.188 --> 00:44:51.006 catch the one or two or three spike wet years that we might have in a long 00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:54.905 series of dry years. John, let me turn to the uh project in the Salt and 00:44:54.938 --> 00:45:00.456 Verdi uh water shed. Give us, give us a look right. Now on, on that six 00:45:00.489 --> 00:45:07.267 lake system, where are we? Well, as of July 1st, as of tomorrow, we'll be 00:45:07.300 --> 00:45:15.146 at about 46% in full in terms of capacity if you look back to 2002, which 00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:20.546 I think by all standards was probably the driest year in the last 15 00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:26.856 hundreds in terms of run off. Our system actually got down to 26% of 00:45:26.889 --> 00:45:32.566 capacity as of July 1st. So we've actually recovered some over the last 00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.396 couple of years even though we've had drier than normal years. How did we 00:45:37.429 --> 00:45:43.537 do that? We did that by reducing our allocation of water to the lands that 00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:50.155 we serve, which are now 80% municipal uses from for two years, two years 00:45:50.188 --> 00:45:57.356 in a row. The last time we did that was 1950 51. We also have purchased 00:45:57.389 --> 00:46:04.307 and exchanged a substantial amount of Central Arizona project water and 00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:09.155 thirdly have pumped a substantial amount of groundwater. The combination 00:46:09.188 --> 00:46:14.717 of those three things has allowed us to maintain our reservoir levels at 00:46:14.750 --> 00:46:20.977 an adequate level for this time period in a drought. But what the project 00:46:21.010 --> 00:46:28.336 needs is it needs several good snowfalls, right? Because the mon I don't 00:46:28.369 --> 00:46:32.396 mean to minimize any water at any time, but it's really not the monsoon 00:46:32.429 --> 00:46:37.646 that that helps the reservoir, the monsoons really only help the health of 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:44.606 the forest. We get very little runoff even from a good monsoon. Uh So 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:49.807 we're looking to the winter run off seasons and it would take several good 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:54.956 run off seasons to actually refill our, our reservoir system. One thing 00:46:54.989 --> 00:47:00.166 that we haven't been focused a lot on, but it deserves some focus because 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.436 more of our population is in the rural areas. We're focused on the metro 00:47:04.469 --> 00:47:11.526 areas. Uh The rural areas are um in pretty bad shape. Yes, they are. And 00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:15.956 uh because most of them are dependent almost exclusively on groundwater, 00:47:15.989 --> 00:47:19.557 uh There is some surface water diversion but most of it's groundwater and 00:47:19.590 --> 00:47:24.287 of course, the limitation on that is the impact of the drought on wells 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:28.146 and the elevation of water in those wells. Uh Part of the governor's uh 00:47:28.179 --> 00:47:32.445 drought plan has been a potable water plan which we've done two years in a 00:47:32.478 --> 00:47:38.796 row now to help identify those areas and that have problems with potable 00:47:38.829 --> 00:47:43.706 water supplies in rural Arizona and make plans to assist them to mitigate 00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:48.385 that particular problem. Give me a broad view of what in particular, the 00:47:48.418 --> 00:47:53.706 most critical areas are well right now, it seems like the rim area is the 00:47:53.739 --> 00:47:57.586 most critical, especially that around patient uh strawberry pine, 00:47:57.619 --> 00:48:01.916 strawberry pine in that area. Uh As far as the impact of the drought, 00:48:01.949 --> 00:48:06.396 which of course is meteorological, but it does impact the uh the recharge 00:48:06.429 --> 00:48:11.166 to the wells and uh requires them to utilize more well water than they 00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:15.967 probably would have in non drought period. So we touched on this earlier, 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:21.776 the fact that if the drought continues and, and we get less water down the 00:48:21.809 --> 00:48:27.115 river, we may cut back the C A P allocation. Is that an across the board 00:48:27.148 --> 00:48:33.456 kind of kind of cut back or does the project have certain priorities on 00:48:33.489 --> 00:48:38.836 who it cuts back? First? It saves for last. We do have priorities. And so 00:48:38.869 --> 00:48:45.635 the first cuts would not, uh, generally would not affect M and I users or 00:48:45.668 --> 00:48:51.577 municipal industrial users or native Americans. Uh non Indian farmers, uh 00:48:51.610 --> 00:48:56.557 primarily agriculture in Pne County would be the ones that take the first 00:48:56.590 --> 00:49:02.876 cut. So even if we went into or when we do go into shortage, uh someone 00:49:02.909 --> 00:49:07.606 living in a municipality or uh farming on an Indian reservation are not 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:11.385 going to be cut with one exception. You remember John mentioned that they 00:49:11.418 --> 00:49:18.236 have relied on a good bit of C A P water uh during this drought period to 00:49:18.269 --> 00:49:22.095 help them and they don't have AC A P allocation. We've been able to 00:49:22.128 --> 00:49:26.816 provide them excess water. When we get to shortage condition, we won't be 00:49:26.849 --> 00:49:31.945 able to deliver water like that to C A P or you know, to S R P, excuse me. 00:49:31.978 --> 00:49:37.566 And so that potentially has an impact on municipalities that, that rely 00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:42.706 on, on S R P water. Ok, John, I've got to ask you what's Plan B do we have 00:49:42.739 --> 00:49:47.236 ? Do we have a plan B? I'm sure the project has a plan B actually, uh we 00:49:47.269 --> 00:49:52.456 have looked at uh if again, everything we look to have seen would indicate 00:49:52.489 --> 00:49:55.977 that this drought is gonna be with us for a while. It doesn't mean we 00:49:56.010 --> 00:50:01.595 aren't gonna have periodic wet years. Our current situation in terms of 00:50:01.628 --> 00:50:07.227 the reservoir system and in terms of our ability to pump groundwater and 00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:11.336 the cities having drought plans, the cities that we serve, having drought 00:50:11.369 --> 00:50:15.345 plans in place, we believe that there will be an adequate supply of water 00:50:15.378 --> 00:50:22.577 out into the future for many, many years. Sure request comment too. A lot 00:50:22.610 --> 00:50:26.166 of folks are aware certainly in Arizona, we have a very active water 00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:30.095 banking program both through the Arizona State Water Bank and the central 00:50:30.128 --> 00:50:33.307 Arizona groundwater replenishment district. And those programs are 00:50:33.340 --> 00:50:38.327 designed to store water underground for use particularly during times just 00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:42.017 like this. So, so what we'll have to do the water will be more costly 00:50:42.050 --> 00:50:46.195 because we'll be removing it. We'll have to pump it, but we do have a 00:50:46.228 --> 00:50:50.997 groundwater uh reserve. We don't have as much as we want, but we do have 00:50:51.030 --> 00:50:56.486 some literally a saving for a not rainy day. So thank you very much for 00:50:56.519 --> 00:51:00.767 joining us, John Sullivan. Good to see you, Herb Gunther. Thanks again. 00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:06.026 Well, that's our water situation. Mitch. I understand your water situation 00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:10.956 is especially challenging as well. Yeah, and curiously, I'm glad you had 00:51:10.989 --> 00:51:14.166 that discussion about water banking because that's one of the solutions 00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:18.057 that are currently under way here, we do have another report on what is 00:51:18.090 --> 00:51:21.486 under way here in the state of Nevada. Take a look at this in the early 19 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:25.436 hundreds, groundwater quench the thirst of many travelers seeking refuge 00:51:25.469 --> 00:51:29.720 in the dry and vast Mojave desert. Now, this groundwater is not enough to 00:51:29.753 --> 00:51:33.932 keep the growing number of residents hydrated. Las Vegas's history and 00:51:33.965 --> 00:51:39.331 future is tied to water. Residents now receive 90% of their water supply 00:51:39.364 --> 00:51:42.901 from the Colorado River. Spurred by the region's record drought, the 00:51:42.934 --> 00:51:46.961 Southern Nevada Water Authority is accelerating its plans to develop other 00:51:46.994 --> 00:51:51.606 water resources. We've never seen a drought of this magnitude. I think as 00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:54.606 we go forward, there will be greater demands on the river. We need to have 00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:57.787 diversity in our portfolio. We need to have other resources to make sure 00:51:57.820 --> 00:52:01.467 that we have reliable supplies during times of drought. The goal is to 00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:06.106 reduce the Colorado river supply to 60% of the total water consumed by 00:52:06.139 --> 00:52:10.077 implementing water banking projects and three in state projects built over 00:52:10.110 --> 00:52:14.385 the next 10 years. Water banking works like a savings account during 00:52:14.418 --> 00:52:17.691 winter months. When water is flowing in Nevada, it can be stored for 00:52:17.724 --> 00:52:22.220 future need. Excess water from the Colorado River can be banked in Arizona 00:52:22.253 --> 00:52:25.981 and withdrawn from lake maiden times of drought. This project could store 00:52:26.014 --> 00:52:30.932 up to 1.2 million acre feet projects using in state resources are also 00:52:30.965 --> 00:52:34.702 part of the Water Authority's portfolio one project will tap into 00:52:34.735 --> 00:52:38.711 groundwater in White Pine and Lincoln counties. Another project will 00:52:38.744 --> 00:52:43.086 withdraw water from rural areas of Clark County. More than $1 billion 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:46.646 worth of wells and pipelines will be needed to connect Las Vegas to this 00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:50.686 water. The water authority has also secured rights to surface water on the 00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:55.425 virgin and muddy rivers. Proposed solutions along with conservation will 00:52:55.458 --> 00:52:59.477 hopefully deliver the much needed water supply to the Las Vegas Valley. 00:52:59.510 --> 00:53:03.017 Until then the search for water that initially brought weary travelers to 00:53:03.050 --> 00:53:10.436 Las Vegas continues reporting for KL VX. I'm Lindsay Adams. 00:53:10.469 --> 00:53:14.896 Ok. Let's talk about that portfolio diversity, something that Phoenix has 00:53:14.929 --> 00:53:19.546 done and now we must do it ourselves here in the state of Nevada. Let's 00:53:19.579 --> 00:53:23.296 review some of these solutions, so to speak, water banking. That's 00:53:23.329 --> 00:53:26.977 something that Arizona and Nevada have partnered together. Explain that 00:53:27.010 --> 00:53:32.155 briefly, right? We have been very fortunate that Arizona during the years 00:53:32.188 --> 00:53:36.836 when they had extra Colorado river water that they didn't need themselves 00:53:36.869 --> 00:53:41.236 banked some of it on our behalf. We have 116,000 acre feet banked in the 00:53:41.269 --> 00:53:44.267 state of Arizona for our future use and we would take it through a 00:53:44.300 --> 00:53:48.296 Colorado River Exchange. We've also been very aggressive in banking in our 00:53:48.329 --> 00:53:51.747 own groundwater basin and thanks to the conservation efforts of the 00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:56.186 community, we were even able to bank last year. And so we now have about 00:53:56.219 --> 00:54:02.276 275,000 acre feet banked in our grown groundwater basin. That is our short 00:54:02.309 --> 00:54:06.856 term bridge. That is what is going to allow us to really diversify our 00:54:06.889 --> 00:54:11.642 portfolio by developing our in state resources, which we have been working 00:54:11.675 --> 00:54:15.432 on for some time and which we've now quite frankly because of the drought 00:54:15.465 --> 00:54:20.432 had to accelerate. Let's talk about another one and that is a plan to take 00:54:20.465 --> 00:54:25.111 from the virgin and muddy rivers. It could boost the water supply from the 00:54:25.144 --> 00:54:28.952 Colorado River by as much as 40%. What about that? Is that a viable 00:54:28.985 --> 00:54:34.791 solution? None of these on their own are solutions. It's all of them 00:54:34.824 --> 00:54:40.486 together that create the solution. So that is part of it. That's one 00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:48.017 component of the solution. Uh There is no single answer. Um And we have to 00:54:48.050 --> 00:54:53.486 do them all. As Pat said, we have to diversify our portfolio. Uh We have 00:54:53.519 --> 00:55:00.236 to recognize that actually Southern Nevada is the engine that drives this 00:55:00.269 --> 00:55:08.269 state. Uh 70% of of our, well, not over 50% of the state's total budget 00:55:09.019 --> 00:55:16.905 comes from Clark County. Many of these smaller counties have to depend on 00:55:16.938 --> 00:55:22.376 us for much needed kinds of assistance. Let's talk about that. There's a 00:55:22.409 --> 00:55:26.807 plan to bring in water from rural counties. An agreement has been reached 00:55:26.840 --> 00:55:31.385 with Lincoln County as I understand it. Uh White Pine County is not quite 00:55:31.418 --> 00:55:37.816 on board yet explain that solution. Well, we filed back in 1989 and we did 00:55:37.849 --> 00:55:43.557 a broad swath filing at that time of ground and surface water in the state 00:55:43.590 --> 00:55:47.557 of Nevada. And since then, we've been quietly doing environmental work. 00:55:47.590 --> 00:55:51.356 We've been, we hammered out an agreement with Lincoln County. We are 00:55:51.389 --> 00:55:55.727 looking toward entering into an agreement with both White Pine County and 00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:59.436 quite frankly County because there are some shared basins in Clark County 00:55:59.469 --> 00:56:04.686 that Nye County also has a stake in. We've begun a water planning process 00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:08.365 that the board appointed a citizens committee around and we've invited the 00:56:08.398 --> 00:56:12.537 rural counties to participate in that water planning process. We see this 00:56:12.570 --> 00:56:17.586 as the future regional solution for a larger Southern Nevada that includes 00:56:17.619 --> 00:56:22.006 Lincoln County, White Pine County and County and Senator Harry Reid is 00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:26.126 involved in this on a on the federal level and we actually have a brief 00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:29.736 sound bite from him. Let's take a look at this. What in fact, we're doing 00:56:29.769 --> 00:56:33.885 is building, we're giving a right away for a pipeline to be built from the 00:56:33.918 --> 00:56:38.336 northern part of the state into Las Vegas so that we can bring water 00:56:38.369 --> 00:56:42.856 someday if all the environmental studies work out from the north to the 00:56:42.889 --> 00:56:46.416 south. And this will benefit Lincoln County in a number of different ways. 00:56:46.449 --> 00:56:52.220 It will allow them to have more land, will also give them some incentive 00:56:52.253 --> 00:56:56.831 and some resources to develop the private land when it comes aboard. So I 00:56:56.864 --> 00:57:01.311 think it's a win win for Lincoln County and for Clark County. But having 00:57:01.344 --> 00:57:03.941 said that it's still going to be hard to get it all done. What about the 00:57:03.974 --> 00:57:08.526 resistance from other rural counties? Not all of them are on board. Well, 00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:12.606 a lot of them are afraid of anything that Clark County wants a suspect. 00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:16.916 We're the big kid on the block and kind of the big bully to many of them. 00:57:16.949 --> 00:57:20.756 But I think the rural communities should look at how Lincoln County 00:57:20.789 --> 00:57:24.686 handled this. There is a thing in this piece of legislation that Lincoln 00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:30.186 County didn't approve. Ok. I'm now joined by my co host, Mike Grant. It 00:57:30.219 --> 00:57:33.256 should be interesting to follow this issue from the perspective of both 00:57:33.289 --> 00:57:38.546 cities. Absolutely. You know, a couple of states and we've got different 00:57:38.579 --> 00:57:42.936 approaches, but we've definitely got a common problem, Mitch. There's no 00:57:42.969 --> 00:57:45.925 doubt about that. Definitely. It's been good working with you, Mike. 00:57:45.958 --> 00:57:49.506 Absolutely. Mitch. Same here. Thank you very much for joining us this 00:57:49.539 --> 00:57:54.436 evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Good night. Have a good 00:57:54.469 --> 00:57:56.469 night.