WEBVTT 00:00:21.859 --> 00:00:23.859 The take off on 00:00:28.609 --> 00:00:32.097 the myth of death. 00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:40.130 Really art. 00:00:40.298 --> 00:00:43.286 Who do we want to start with again? We want to start with you. I'll start 00:00:43.319 --> 00:00:47.315 , we'll start with Dr Kaplan again. Now you had no problem following the 00:00:47.348 --> 00:00:51.686 chit chat back and forth because we want to encourage that. All right, go 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:57.237 for it. Shall we give me the countdown whenever you're ready? Stand by? 00:00:57.270 --> 00:01:02.746 These are not exactly studio conditions but it, but it is what you should 00:01:02.779 --> 00:01:06.566 be talking about poverty and health care. 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:14.025 OK. And 54321 00:01:14.058 --> 00:01:18.217 capel. Let me start again with you. One of the issues here at the 00:01:18.250 --> 00:01:22.876 conference has been in the area of neonatology. And I think the simplest 00:01:22.909 --> 00:01:27.706 way is to begin with a little bit of history. What are some of the cases 00:01:27.739 --> 00:01:32.596 that have prompted this discussion in neonatology? There have been three 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:38.286 major cases in the past two or three years that have really focused both 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:42.376 medical and public attention on practices in neonatology. The first is the 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:47.406 so called baby dough case in Indiana. The child was born suffering from 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.525 Down Syndrome, genetic condition that is associated with mental 00:01:51.558 --> 00:01:55.915 retardation. It also had a blockage of its stomach. There was a kind of a 00:01:55.948 --> 00:02:02.546 gap surgery could be performed to correct this stomach problem. The 00:02:02.579 --> 00:02:06.915 parents said no. And the doctor, their family doctor went along with that 00:02:06.948 --> 00:02:11.677 decision. Basically, there was a disagreement on the part of the hospital 00:02:11.710 --> 00:02:14.696 staff. Some of the nurses thought that the procedure should be done, 00:02:14.729 --> 00:02:17.946 however, they respected the parents' wishes. They did try to take the case 00:02:17.979 --> 00:02:22.646 to court. But the baby died before the court rendered a decision as it 00:02:22.679 --> 00:02:25.346 happened. The court eventually said that it supported the parent's right 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:28.886 to say no to that treatment. So the question there was is mental 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.896 retardation a sufficient reason that particular condition downs through 00:02:31.929 --> 00:02:37.505 syndrome not to treat. Second case was the Siamese twin case in Danville, 00:02:37.538 --> 00:02:42.386 Illinois. Siamese twins were born. The parents basically said they were 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:45.487 going to live a life of pain and suffering because they have this terrible 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.585 condition. We don't think you should treat. In this case, the hospital 00:02:49.618 --> 00:02:54.136 overrode the parents' decision went to court got a order to treat the 00:02:54.169 --> 00:02:57.106 Children and in fact, they were treated and are still alive to this day. 00:02:57.139 --> 00:03:00.717 In this case, the state took authority into its own hands and overrode a 00:03:00.750 --> 00:03:04.536 parental decision about treatment. The most recent case and probably the 00:03:04.569 --> 00:03:08.267 most controversial of all is the baby Jane Doe case out on Long Island. 00:03:08.300 --> 00:03:13.085 The child was born with spina bifida with malformation of the brain with 00:03:13.118 --> 00:03:20.745 certain deficits of limbs, motion and ability to move. And the physician 00:03:20.778 --> 00:03:23.495 of the family in this case predicted that the child would live a life of 00:03:23.528 --> 00:03:28.827 pain and suffering and probably be very retarded as all of us know. By now 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:34.136 in this situation, a lawyer appeared right to life group lawyer and got a 00:03:34.169 --> 00:03:39.156 court to appoint a guardian who urged that the hospital treat the child. 00:03:39.189 --> 00:03:42.896 After some time of wrangling around in the courts, the federal government 00:03:42.929 --> 00:03:47.876 got involved. It sent out a notice to the hospital ordering it to treat 00:03:47.909 --> 00:03:51.487 basing its claim on the fact that it was discriminatory not to treat 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.577 someone because they were handicapped and it violated discrimination 00:03:54.610 --> 00:03:58.835 statutes. So we have three cases that highlight some of the conflicts that 00:03:58.868 --> 00:04:02.646 have come up between parents, the courts and the state and the medical 00:04:02.679 --> 00:04:06.767 profession regarding treatment and failure to treat decisions. Well, 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:10.376 clearly, we've established some conflicts here. We've probably established 00:04:10.409 --> 00:04:14.646 some conflicts of propriety. Now, the question that I would raise next 00:04:14.679 --> 00:04:19.796 logically is how do we solve some of these problems of propriety who 00:04:19.829 --> 00:04:24.145 should decide? And when? Well again, I think the historical background is 00:04:24.178 --> 00:04:28.895 important here until fairly recently, it has usually been the parents in 00:04:28.928 --> 00:04:32.866 consultation with the family physician who have made the decision whether 00:04:32.899 --> 00:04:36.645 to treat or not treat the disabled newborn. We've seen that that kind of 00:04:36.678 --> 00:04:41.106 private decision making has led to some outcomes which many people find 00:04:41.139 --> 00:04:44.575 unsatisfactory and has provoked a good deal of fear in the courts and the 00:04:44.608 --> 00:04:49.717 public discussion in the press. What are the alternatives? Well, one of 00:04:49.750 --> 00:04:53.346 the alternatives that's been tried recently, I think in a way that's 00:04:53.379 --> 00:04:56.796 produced perhaps more harm than good is administrative regulation. An 00:04:56.829 --> 00:05:01.346 attempt by the Department of Health and Human Services to issue rulings 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:05.286 which would take control of the decision making out of the hands of those 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:12.067 nearest to the scene. Even more recently, Arizona has passed a baby do law 00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:16.717 of its own which very closely mirrors the HHS regulations. It's now being 00:05:16.750 --> 00:05:21.616 modified as the original HHS regulations have been modified. People have 00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:26.955 been very concerned that this administrative law approach is too much of a 00:05:26.988 --> 00:05:31.325 blunt instrument. It's too intrusive, it takes control too much control 00:05:31.358 --> 00:05:34.467 out of the hands of the family and the physician. The most recent 00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:40.757 alternative that's been proposed to this kind of obtrusive approach is the 00:05:40.790 --> 00:05:45.416 use of institutional ethics committees to provide some safeguards for 00:05:45.449 --> 00:05:50.437 decision making about treatment or non treatment for disabled newborns. 00:05:50.470 --> 00:05:55.736 And the Arizona baby dough law has now been reformulated just recently in 00:05:55.769 --> 00:06:00.895 the last few weeks to encourage reliance upon institutional ethics 00:06:00.928 --> 00:06:06.395 committees for the most problematic cases. Well, this strikes me that it's 00:06:06.428 --> 00:06:11.106 a case where it's very similar, for example to an institutional review 00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:14.717 board that might pass judgment on whether a patient is ready to receive an 00:06:14.750 --> 00:06:18.717 experimental heart put into his chest. Something similar to the case that 00:06:18.750 --> 00:06:21.627 we saw in Utah, 00:06:21.660 --> 00:06:25.437 what is the function of this institutional review board? Has it worked? Is 00:06:25.470 --> 00:06:29.356 this a good idea? Well, it's a little early to have a clear track record. 00:06:29.389 --> 00:06:32.317 There have been lots of different groups that have called themselves 00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:34.817 institutional ethics committees, but they've done quite different things. 00:06:34.850 --> 00:06:37.515 I think the important thing to do is to distinguish between a committee 00:06:37.548 --> 00:06:41.637 that would try to make treatment decisions and one which would play other 00:06:41.670 --> 00:06:45.305 roles. In fact, I think no one who is now in support of institutional 00:06:45.338 --> 00:06:49.450 ethics committees views them as primary decision makers instead they are 00:06:49.483 --> 00:06:53.442 thought of as having a couple of functions. First of all, they should 00:06:53.475 --> 00:06:57.851 review prognosis or make sure that prognosis is reviewed, make sure that 00:06:57.884 --> 00:07:02.330 the facts are accurately appreciated by the decision makers in the 00:07:02.363 --> 00:07:04.942 Bloomington Indiana case. There's reason to believe that the family 00:07:04.975 --> 00:07:09.322 physician presented the family with a very inaccurate picture of the 00:07:09.355 --> 00:07:13.526 success rate for the operation and the severity of the child's condition. 00:07:13.559 --> 00:07:18.096 Secondly, they can provide consultation and advice for difficult ethical 00:07:18.129 --> 00:07:23.137 decisions. And third, they can scrutinize the question of guardianship. If 00:07:23.170 --> 00:07:26.075 there's a case in which it looks as if the family is acting 00:07:26.108 --> 00:07:29.137 inappropriately, there's a strong conflict of interest or the family 00:07:29.170 --> 00:07:32.906 itself, the parents are incompetent to decide for the child. The committee 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:37.515 might seek appointment of a guardian, it might go to court. But all of 00:07:37.548 --> 00:07:40.866 these functions are quite different from the function of having the 00:07:40.899 --> 00:07:44.555 committee make the decisions itself. 00:07:44.588 --> 00:07:50.606 Ultimately, I suppose with the exception of perhaps genetic disorders over 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:56.166 which we virtually have no control. There may be some steps that parents 00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:01.317 can take before a child is either conceived or perhaps with genetic 00:08:01.350 --> 00:08:05.745 counseling or after a child is conceived, some prevention steps that can 00:08:05.778 --> 00:08:09.786 be taken. Now, it strikes me that there might be some conflicts built into 00:08:09.819 --> 00:08:14.825 the system as we have developed it so far between prevention. And once a 00:08:14.858 --> 00:08:18.967 problem presents itself, our ability to rush in and try to do something to 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:23.986 intervene in that problem. Yeah, I think this is the most troubling aspect. 00:08:24.019 --> 00:08:26.986 For me. It's not really what happens in the neonatal unit. It's what 00:08:27.019 --> 00:08:31.476 happens before one gets there and what happens afterwards. The 00:08:31.509 --> 00:08:35.515 administration in Washington has been very strong on arguing that maximal 00:08:35.548 --> 00:08:38.275 aggressive care should be given to every child no matter what their 00:08:38.308 --> 00:08:42.307 quality of life, what their prognosis. It seems to me at the same time, 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:47.746 very ironic that the government has been pulling money away from prenatal 00:08:47.779 --> 00:08:51.907 care for women. Remember, we know the cause of many of the problems that 00:08:51.940 --> 00:08:56.366 appear in neonatal units, poor nutrition, drug abuse in the mother, 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:01.946 smoking, drinking herpes rubella. We know the factors that bring about 00:09:01.979 --> 00:09:05.346 conditions that have to be treated in a neonatal unit. It seems very short 00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:08.875 sighted to say on the one hand, we're going to spend billions spent $2 00:09:08.908 --> 00:09:11.842 billion last year. On neonatal care. And at the same time, say we're not 00:09:11.875 --> 00:09:15.571 going to spend anything on nutrition programs, education and other 00:09:15.604 --> 00:09:19.172 preventative measures. Then the other side of the coin is once the child 00:09:19.205 --> 00:09:23.150 comes out of the neonatal unit, where are the resources for institutional 00:09:23.183 --> 00:09:26.650 care, for support for the parents? We've done a very bad job in the 00:09:26.683 --> 00:09:30.241 society of taking care of our handicapped. Yet, the administration in 00:09:30.274 --> 00:09:33.471 Washington and I must say at the state level, and even in the State of 00:09:33.504 --> 00:09:37.831 Arizona has been very reluctant to commit serious resources to the care 00:09:37.864 --> 00:09:41.086 and help of handicapped Children. 00:09:41.119 --> 00:09:45.446 Dr Kaplan of the Hastings Center Hastings on Hudson, New York and Dr Alan 00:09:45.479 --> 00:09:48.476 Buchanan with the University of Arizona. Thanks very much for joining us 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:56.509 here on 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:07.596 have given him an appreciation of Arizona's people, its places and music. 00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:11.206 It would seem the next chapter would be played as a curator of those 00:10:11.239 --> 00:10:18.616 things. Bill Music is one of the most neglected art forms of our state. 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:24.936 You go into any library, you will find poetry, you'll find history, you'll 00:10:24.969 --> 00:10:29.875 find uh Indian dances, you'll find anything you want to find on Arizona in 00:10:29.908 --> 00:10:35.037 the Southwest. You look for Arizona music and I defy you to find it. Katie 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:41.557 Lee has written a book that's the only one that I have found. We have folk 00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:47.616 musicians, great folk personalities in this state that are not being 00:10:47.649 --> 00:10:51.196 eulogized or if they have been eulogized in songs, they're not where 00:10:51.229 --> 00:10:54.037 they're supposed to be. They should be in our libraries, they should be in 00:10:54.070 --> 00:11:00.576 our museums. We have songwriters, folk musicians that most of the public 00:11:00.609 --> 00:11:03.927 because they're not really famous people. They need to be preserved and 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:07.755 they need to be remembered. They're making a great contribution to this 00:11:07.788 --> 00:11:12.917 state. So what is it you're planning to do? I am planning on building a 00:11:12.950 --> 00:11:18.706 home and a museum complex out by the Sara Lake area. I've already 00:11:18.739 --> 00:11:26.739 purchased the land and there we are going to salute Eulogize Preserve 00:11:29.369 --> 00:11:35.015 Arizona music, Arizona folk musicians and those people that, that music 00:11:35.048 --> 00:11:38.787 and places and things that, that music has been written about and it's 00:11:38.820 --> 00:11:43.496 going to be there are other states that do have music museums. Arizona 00:11:43.529 --> 00:11:48.336 doesn't have one, not only does Arizona not have one, it's not even in our 00:11:48.369 --> 00:11:52.596 libraries. So we're going to put one together and hopefully it's going to 00:11:52.629 --> 00:11:57.356 be a well visited place 00:11:57.389 --> 00:12:05.389 to close her. 00:12:12.129 --> 00:12:15.385 A 00:12:15.418 --> 00:12:22.486 how would Dolan Ellis describe Dolan Ellis, the person, 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:27.037 I'm the person that's um 00:12:27.070 --> 00:12:31.496 been over a lot of hills and down in a lot of valleys and it makes life 00:12:31.529 --> 00:12:34.807 very interesting 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:37.427 and do. 00:12:37.460 --> 00:12:45.460 Yeah. 00:12:47.418 --> 00:12:50.836 Mhm 00:12:50.869 --> 00:12:58.869 On Earth is over 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:51.186 in an encore science report tonight, we look at a promising new use of the 00:13:51.219 --> 00:13:56.356 laser in neurosurgery. The technique is still experimental but preliminary 00:13:56.389 --> 00:14:00.667 findings are very encouraging. Life is tough if you happen to be a 00:14:00.700 --> 00:14:05.436 laboratory rat. This one for example is offering up a major nerve in his 00:14:05.469 --> 00:14:10.326 hind leg, all in the name of medical science, his sacrifice and that of 00:14:10.359 --> 00:14:14.996 many rats like him are paving the way for a new high tech approach to an 00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:20.037 old surgical problem in cases of extremely severe injury. How does the 00:14:20.070 --> 00:14:24.755 surgeon go about the difficult task of rejoining severed nerves and small 00:14:24.788 --> 00:14:30.226 blood vessels in the past, conventional techniques for doing that have 00:14:30.259 --> 00:14:36.826 involved using suture material often with the operating microscope. If the 00:14:36.859 --> 00:14:41.645 vessels or the nerves are very small and physically joining the nerves 00:14:41.678 --> 00:14:49.196 together with sutures, that certainly works but has had some drawbacks. 00:14:49.229 --> 00:14:54.586 One being the time consuming nature of the suturing. And the second being 00:14:54.619 --> 00:15:00.706 the possibility that the foreign body of the suture might produce scarring 00:15:00.739 --> 00:15:06.346 or fibrosis that could interfere with the eventual result. Experiments are 00:15:06.379 --> 00:15:11.145 now in progress to rejoin severed nerves, not with better sutures, but 00:15:11.178 --> 00:15:16.297 with a laser beam, honing a Star Wars style light sword into a healing 00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:21.616 instrument. A laser beam is a very precise modern instrument. It will 00:15:21.649 --> 00:15:26.836 allow us to make lesions in the central nervous system precisely where it 00:15:26.869 --> 00:15:32.375 need be. We can literally shave or evaporate cell layers of arteries and 00:15:32.408 --> 00:15:37.287 nerves and in vital portions of the brain. In this regard, the laser can 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:44.856 also serve experimentally to enos or bring back together again, severed 00:15:44.889 --> 00:15:50.086 nerves and arteries, intense beams of laser light do only one thing no 00:15:50.119 --> 00:15:54.775 matter how they are applied in medicine and that is burn tissue. At this 00:15:54.808 --> 00:15:58.807 point in time, I would like to turn on the carbon dioxide beam and 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:03.375 illustrate to you under low power situations, what it can do on this block 00:16:03.408 --> 00:16:08.346 of wood. Now, I can control, as you see, and I'm going to turn on the beam 00:16:08.379 --> 00:16:12.047 and I'm going to try carefully not to hold it in one spot too long. 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.726 Because if you do, we can get a little bit of a fire. But in this regard, 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:20.866 we can actually create charring due to the high energy nature of this 00:16:20.899 --> 00:16:26.496 coherent light system. It occurred to Dr Fisher that the same intensely 00:16:26.529 --> 00:16:30.936 hot but precisely controlled beam of light could be used to spot weld the 00:16:30.969 --> 00:16:35.217 ends of a severed nerve back together. Working under a microscope, he 00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:39.686 identifies and fully anesthetizes the sciatic nerve in the legs of rats 00:16:39.719 --> 00:16:44.057 which are already under general anesthesia. In order to simulate a nerve 00:16:44.090 --> 00:16:48.005 severed in an accident victim, the rat's sciatic nerve is cleanly 00:16:48.038 --> 00:16:52.505 transected with a scalpel. The experiment in spot welding the nerve back 00:16:52.538 --> 00:16:57.385 together by laser requires that the two free ends be lined up again and 00:16:57.418 --> 00:17:02.846 temporarily held together or approximated as the surgeons like to say, for 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:08.186 that one single ultra thin stitch is used. The nerve itself is about one 00:17:08.219 --> 00:17:11.097 millimeter in thickness 00:17:11.130 --> 00:17:17.377 and the future is much less than that one nerve end at the top center has 00:17:17.410 --> 00:17:20.545 had a single suture, needle pulled through it. This picture has been 00:17:20.578 --> 00:17:25.295 magnified 25 times actual size by attaching the television camera to the 00:17:25.328 --> 00:17:29.815 microscope, switching to a lower power, the severed nerve ends can be seen 00:17:29.848 --> 00:17:34.656 coming together for that single temporary approximating stitch. Now the 00:17:34.689 --> 00:17:40.555 laser can go into action. We'll start on the right side 00:17:40.588 --> 00:17:45.706 and you can see a little bit of charring on the nerve itself. You have to 00:17:45.739 --> 00:17:53.127 get very tangential to the nerve and just touch it with the edge of the 00:17:53.160 --> 00:18:00.617 laser beam which creates a heat change in the nerve itself. 00:18:00.650 --> 00:18:05.656 As a result, there are changes in the tissues or protein components of the 00:18:05.689 --> 00:18:08.107 nerve wall. 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:14.387 And this acts as the anatomical basis of the spot welding forming scar 00:18:14.420 --> 00:18:17.815 tissue all the way around the cut. With the laser beam produces an 00:18:17.848 --> 00:18:22.936 extraordinarily strong instant natural bond. After lasering one nerve back 00:18:22.969 --> 00:18:27.315 together and conventionally suturing one in the opposite leg of each rat, 00:18:27.348 --> 00:18:31.315 the animals are allowed to fully recover from surgery and live an 00:18:31.348 --> 00:18:35.986 additional month. Then each nerve is tested to compare the performance of 00:18:36.019 --> 00:18:41.847 laser healing with suturing. We hope to prove that the 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:49.880 scar tissue formed by the laser will result in better physiologic 00:18:50.299 --> 00:18:55.147 transmission of the nerve impulses across the area where they are joined 00:18:55.180 --> 00:19:00.436 due to less scarring. As compared to this conventional suture technique. 00:19:00.469 --> 00:19:04.387 At the present time, we are really not certain and no one else is either 00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:10.006 whether this will prove to be a better technique, suture and assis. But 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.516 there's some reason to think that it might be and it does appear to be 00:19:13.549 --> 00:19:21.549 more rapid or faster than suture and Amos for right now, sutures are the 00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:27.696 norm for clinical work. I suspect that over the next several years, 00:19:27.729 --> 00:19:33.045 research here and research that's going on in other centers will define 00:19:33.078 --> 00:19:38.397 whether lasers are going to be a better way of doing this rejoining nerves 00:19:38.430 --> 00:19:43.006 and small blood vessels using laser micro spot welding is still only in 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:47.321 the experimental stage. Even if these experiments prove that lasering is 00:19:47.354 --> 00:19:50.950 superior to suturing for a number of reasons. The surgeon's needle and 00:19:50.983 --> 00:19:55.031 thread is not likely to become obsolete in the foreseeable future. But 00:19:55.064 --> 00:19:59.262 there is a good chance that the laser will find a new application among 00:19:59.295 --> 00:20:07.295 the tools of the neurosurgeon. 00:20:51.430 --> 00:20:56.055 The health effects of exposure to dioxin a by product of the manufacture 00:20:56.088 --> 00:21:00.575 of various herbicides and antibacterial agents has been the subject of 00:21:00.608 --> 00:21:04.795 growing public concern and debate among government regulatory agencies, 00:21:04.828 --> 00:21:09.555 environmental interests and chemical manufacturers in an effort to stem 00:21:09.588 --> 00:21:13.597 the tide of what they perceive to be an avalanche of bad publicity and 00:21:13.630 --> 00:21:18.276 misinformation. The Dow Chemical company has launched a public relations 00:21:18.309 --> 00:21:23.545 campaign as one means of disseminating information among other things. It 00:21:23.578 --> 00:21:27.506 is the Dow Chemical Company's position that scientific evidence does not 00:21:27.539 --> 00:21:33.026 support a link between dioxin exposure and cancer in humans. And Doo 00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:38.555 insists there is no substantive evidence evidence linking dioxin exposure 00:21:38.588 --> 00:21:42.555 in humans with a higher than normal rate of birth defects with us this 00:21:42.588 --> 00:21:47.555 evening to discuss the dioxin controversy are Horizons Eric Temple and 00:21:47.588 --> 00:21:51.776 Sheila Britton, supervisor of the Aquatic Toxicology Testing Laboratory 00:21:51.809 --> 00:21:57.147 from Dow Chemical Eric. Thanks Sheila. Welcome to Horizon. Thank you, 00:21:57.180 --> 00:21:59.906 yourself and others are touring the country right now on behalf of Dow 00:21:59.939 --> 00:22:05.976 Chemical in what some would call public relations campaign for dioxin. 00:22:06.009 --> 00:22:10.117 Isn't this a little unusual for a company like Dow? Well, Eric, in light 00:22:10.150 --> 00:22:15.075 of the bad publicity that has surrounded this issue, we have decided to 00:22:15.108 --> 00:22:19.236 launch our own campaign to bring out what we feel is strong evidence 00:22:19.269 --> 00:22:24.756 supporting the fact that Dioxin is not what they have perceived it to be 00:22:24.789 --> 00:22:29.815 in the media in this recent campaign. Is this the reason why you are 00:22:29.848 --> 00:22:34.335 launching this to sway public opinion to yes, we want to present our side 00:22:34.368 --> 00:22:40.656 of this issue and show what we have found as evidence to support. It has 00:22:40.689 --> 00:22:47.607 had admittedly a rocky public relations road to travel lately. Why such an 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:52.436 emphasis on public relations now? Well, like you said, we've had a bad 00:22:52.469 --> 00:22:59.607 time in the past two decades and it's not so much just the bad publicity 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.496 we have received, but public relations has become important for all 00:23:02.529 --> 00:23:10.006 corporations we have found in the past 10 years that most corporations 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:14.486 have launched public relations campaigns because of the public awareness 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:19.137 that people are now involved in. It's Dow's contention that scientific 00:23:19.170 --> 00:23:23.756 evidence does not support a link between dioxin and cancer in humans. Upon 00:23:23.789 --> 00:23:28.545 what basis does doo make that? Well, we have conducted extensive research 00:23:28.578 --> 00:23:31.706 through our own laboratories and in research laboratories throughout the 00:23:31.739 --> 00:23:39.026 country. And we have found that there is no substantive substantive 00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:43.085 evidence that this is true and this is why we're out on the road now 00:23:43.118 --> 00:23:47.246 trying to let the people know that we have found this to be true. But the 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.785 public perceives that risk or that connection between cancer and Dioxin. 00:23:51.818 --> 00:23:55.236 How do you account for the public perception? Well, I think that has a lot 00:23:55.269 --> 00:23:59.496 to do with the media and the fact that it is brought up, this is a great 00:23:59.529 --> 00:24:06.117 concern. I understand the public being frightened by this, but this is why 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.256 we have conducted the research shifting gears a little bit. There's also 00:24:10.289 --> 00:24:16.637 been a connection mentioned between birth defects and Dioxin. Why the 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:22.196 perception of that? Well, again, we have found that it's mainly what has 00:24:22.229 --> 00:24:28.196 been leaked to the media in most cases, very untrue information. And we 00:24:28.229 --> 00:24:32.825 have found in our research that there is no link between birth defects and 00:24:32.858 --> 00:24:37.305 Dioxin. How does the public get misinformed? I mean, the rumors have to 00:24:37.338 --> 00:24:41.107 start somewhere. Where do you think they come from? Well, I think possibly 00:24:41.140 --> 00:24:45.397 it's not so much misinformation that is getting out. I think it's 00:24:45.430 --> 00:24:50.847 information that is perceived incorrectly. And once people think that 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:57.107 there is this terrible link then they blow it out of proportion. And 00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:02.696 that's when the scare begins. What would you say to a Vietnam veteran then 00:25:02.729 --> 00:25:06.726 who had had contact with agent Orange and has had health problems related 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:11.815 to Dioxin? Well, I would say that with the evidence, we have found it 00:25:11.848 --> 00:25:17.387 can't be supported. There's a lot of people out there. Yes, there is. But 00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:23.565 this is the evidence that we have looked for and very strongly want people 00:25:23.598 --> 00:25:27.535 to know that we have not been able to find any evidence. Linking this one 00:25:27.568 --> 00:25:30.825 final question, the Environmental Protection Agency has expressed concern 00:25:30.858 --> 00:25:35.766 about Dioxin. What are you doing to change their concern? The 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:41.236 Environmental protection Agency is there just for this reason to answer 00:25:41.269 --> 00:25:45.315 these questions, they're looking as we have and I'm sure they'll come up 00:25:45.348 --> 00:25:48.456 with the same information that we've found. Sheila Britton. Thank you for 00:25:48.489 --> 00:25:53.825 joining us on Horizon. Thank you, Eric. Thank you tomorrow night on the 00:25:53.858 --> 00:25:57.666 Thursday edition of Horizon. Business editor Phyllis Palaio reports that 00:25:57.699 --> 00:26:02.236 as the valley's high tech industry grows. So does the threat of industrial 00:26:02.269 --> 00:26:07.805 espionage? I say oil in extremely vulnerable because uh as you mentioned 00:26:07.838 --> 00:26:13.696 before the open society and because I don't think many people take to 00:26:13.729 --> 00:26:21.637 heart the threat and the loss of intelligence information tonight at 10 00:26:21.670 --> 00:26:26.315 o'clock on crossfire, Pat Buchanan and Tom Braden. Look back at Watergate 00:26:26.348 --> 00:26:32.236 with former President Richard Nixon. The mission is clear enough to assist 00:26:32.269 --> 00:26:37.147 in the establishment of peace to serve as a peacekeeping force and to help 00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:40.996 the government of Lebanon establish order so that it may be able to 00:26:41.029 --> 00:26:44.656 control its own forces and to ensure that in due course, the country is 00:26:44.689 --> 00:26:49.877 united that coming up later tonight on crossfire. Thanks very much for 00:26:49.910 --> 00:26:53.516 joining us here on the Thursday edition. Please join Michael Grant 00:26:53.549 --> 00:26:56.795 tomorrow night with journalists from around the state on the Friday 00:26:56.828 --> 00:27:01.180 edition. I'm Rick Daley. Good night.