WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.907 281. Thank you. 00:00:03.940 --> 00:00:10.006 Yeah, Support for Channel eight programming is made possible in part by a 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:14.916 . P. S. Making sure our customers have the electricity they need to power 00:00:14.949 --> 00:00:21.326 the things they value A. P. S. The power to make it happen. The second 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:25.247 annual Mesa storytelling festival presenting two days of storytellers 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:29.896 entertainment, october 22nd and 23rd. Downtown mesa on the greens by 00:00:29.929 --> 00:00:37.207 centennial hall tickets available at 48 oh 834 44 36. 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:42.277 V. Estancia An Arizona community featuring 45 models by seven builders. 00:00:42.310 --> 00:00:46.307 Distancia is located north on lake Pleasant road west at Happy Valley 00:00:46.340 --> 00:00:52.906 Road. Grand opening happening now. 00:00:52.939 --> 00:00:59.616 Yeah, 00:00:59.649 --> 00:01:02.006 Yeah, 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:07.676 mm hmm. Tonight on horizon a debate recap here. Post debate reaction from 00:01:07.709 --> 00:01:12.066 bob Schieffer, the moderator, yesterday's debate in Tempe. Also, we'll 00:01:12.099 --> 00:01:16.167 take you inside the spin room where candidates supporters tell you why 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:20.357 their guy won. In addition, we get the view of normal people who watched 00:01:20.390 --> 00:01:24.536 the debate at Wells Fargo Arena. And we'll tell you how hosting the debate 00:01:24.569 --> 00:01:31.507 in Tempe boosted timothy and s you that's next on Horizon. 00:01:31.540 --> 00:01:36.397 Horizon is made possible by the friends of Channel eight members who 00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:42.706 provide financial support to this. Arizona PBS station. Thank you. 00:01:42.739 --> 00:01:46.917 Good evening and welcome to Horizon. I'm Michael Grant. He had the best 00:01:46.950 --> 00:01:51.296 seat in the House CBS news chief Washington correspondent bob Schieffer 00:01:51.329 --> 00:01:55.057 was seated in front of President Bush and Senator Kerry asking the 00:01:55.090 --> 00:01:58.546 candidates questions last night. Producer paul Atkinson caught up with 00:01:58.579 --> 00:02:01.807 Schieffer after the debate. 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:06.486 Gentlemen, welcome to you both by cohen toss. The first question goes to 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:11.096 Senator kerrey bob Schieffer moderated the final debate in one of the most 00:02:11.129 --> 00:02:15.626 contentious presidential elections in history and I thought my job in this 00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:20.367 debate was to try to give the american people a better understanding and a 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.286 better picture of just who these men are. So I wasn't trying to trip him 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.946 up and get him to say something. They didn't mean I wanted to know. I 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:32.636 wanted people to understand exactly who they are and what they stand for. 00:02:32.669 --> 00:02:37.786 Mr President, what do you say to someone in this country who has lost his 00:02:37.819 --> 00:02:44.217 job to someone overseas, who's being paid a fraction of what that job paid 00:02:44.250 --> 00:02:48.356 here in the United States. I say bob, I've got policies to continue to 00:02:48.389 --> 00:02:53.166 grow our economy. Schieffer asked a wide range of questions on topics 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.587 ranging from jobs and healthcare to homosexuality and religion, but I must 00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:02.356 say watching these two men, I thought both of them did very well. I 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:06.587 thought Carrie had a had a very good command of facts. I thought the 00:03:06.620 --> 00:03:10.497 president, I thought especially he did well on the faith question when I 00:03:10.530 --> 00:03:15.846 asked him, how does your faith impact on policy? Uh that could have been 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.087 in some ways, kind of a trick question, you know, but I thought he handled 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.737 it very well. I doubt that very many people are going to get mad at a man 00:03:22.770 --> 00:03:26.647 for saying, you know, I pray a lot. One topic that Schieffer hadn't 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:30.976 originally planned on asking was an important one to Arizona and mr 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:36.297 President. I got more email this week on this question than any other 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:40.737 question. And it is about immigration. It's not something that's gotten a 00:03:40.770 --> 00:03:44.897 lot of attention in Washington where I'm based it seems like. But boy, 00:03:44.930 --> 00:03:48.577 these emails started, you know, you can tell when it's an orchestrated 00:03:48.610 --> 00:03:51.987 campaign and you can tell when it's people who really want to know this 00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:56.207 was not an orchestrated campaign. But I would say that I got more emails 00:03:56.240 --> 00:04:01.577 about immigration than any other single any other single subject. The host 00:04:01.610 --> 00:04:06.886 of CBS news face the nation was able to ask some follow up questions. But 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:10.897 per debate rules couldn't make candidates answer every question. There are 00:04:10.930 --> 00:04:14.987 a couple of times when both of them I think just ignored the question 00:04:15.020 --> 00:04:19.397 entirely. And that's that's when I was a little bit frustrated. That's 00:04:19.430 --> 00:04:23.416 when I wish I could have asked a follow up question. Uh, I thought there 00:04:23.449 --> 00:04:27.296 were a couple of times with both of them could have hit back at the other 00:04:27.329 --> 00:04:31.676 guy and scored some points and and they didn't. As moderator Schieffer 00:04:31.709 --> 00:04:35.837 says he was not in a position to judge who won the debate. He just hopes 00:04:35.870 --> 00:04:40.187 his questions help voters get the information they needed to cast an 00:04:40.220 --> 00:04:42.707 informed vote. 00:04:42.740 --> 00:04:47.197 On the other hand, it's called the spin room or spin alley. Either way, 00:04:47.230 --> 00:04:51.827 there is spin involved and there was lots of that going on last night in 00:04:51.860 --> 00:04:55.707 the big media tent next to Gammage Auditorium. The site of the debate, 00:04:55.740 --> 00:05:02.106 Larry Lemons tells us more about the spin room and how spin works 00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:06.707 right? They came 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:12.707 they saw 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:16.317 they spun. Well, I think the president will lay out his vision for the 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:20.457 next four years in terms of how we continue to strengthen the economy, how 00:05:20.490 --> 00:05:23.976 we improve healthcare. So we have lower costs through medical liability 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:27.986 reform. John Kerry has done a very effective job holding the president 00:05:28.019 --> 00:05:31.277 accountable for his record both at home and abroad and laying out a very 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:36.406 positive vision, an alternative choice for a new, a new direction in this 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:39.387 country. Well, the president has a wonderful track record on domestic 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:43.257 policy and on our economy and we'll talk about that track record because 00:05:43.290 --> 00:05:46.656 it's built a solid foundation for us to have a very, very optimistic 00:05:46.689 --> 00:05:50.156 futures. This administration is running from its record and to use 00:05:50.189 --> 00:05:53.656 President Bush's own words, you can run, but you can't hide well, he can't 00:05:53.689 --> 00:05:58.397 hide from having done almost nothing for 3.5 years except to get us into a 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:02.507 war we didn't have to fight. And this is before the debate for the 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:06.806 reporters convenience or perhaps inconvenience, depending on your point of 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:12.226 view, this structure was created partly or the facilitation of spin. So 00:06:12.259 --> 00:06:18.106 what exactly is Spin Fox News Sean Hannity and Kari Stafford chad Clanton 00:06:18.139 --> 00:06:21.666 illustrates he's like the number one spot. Listen you might as well, I'm 00:06:21.699 --> 00:06:24.736 going to be him for tonight. It doesn't matter how bad he gets. Carrie 00:06:24.769 --> 00:06:28.226 gets beaten tonight, he's going to say Kerry wins. That's what spin. We 00:06:28.259 --> 00:06:31.546 won the first two. Every public policy lost. We lost the second debate. 00:06:31.579 --> 00:06:34.467 Here's the question are we going to see a furious George? He wants to be 00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:37.337 a host. He wants to be a host. I know what you're gonna see. His passion 00:06:37.370 --> 00:06:40.176 and genuine concern. Are we going to see flip flopper tonight? Are we 00:06:40.209 --> 00:06:42.536 going to see are we going to see the dolphin tonight? We're going to see 00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:45.967 flipper tonight. We're going to see a furious George or smirking and 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.207 scowling. Is it possible that he will vote to raise taxes on the stage 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:52.627 tonight? He's voted, he's voted to cut taxes. He's going to cut you cut 00:06:52.660 --> 00:06:57.447 defense Intelligence week in America's defenses. Well, George Bush had 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:01.567 made a single mistake tonight. Have you ever made a mistake? No, never. No 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:08.527 debating you mistake. All reporters don't agree on the value of spin or do 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:13.767 they agree on how it began? Nor do they even agree on what is spin? They 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:18.887 do know it's become an accepted If not hated part of the electoral process. 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.837 About 20 years ago, there really was no such thing as spin. And what 00:07:21.870 --> 00:07:27.116 happened is it's an ap reporter named walter Mears and he filed the first 00:07:27.149 --> 00:07:31.046 story from each debate or each major event and journalists having a pack 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:33.786 mentality would crowd around walter's typewriter because their editors 00:07:33.819 --> 00:07:37.467 would want to know why is really different from a PS and so walter would 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:41.267 set the tone for everybody else's coverage. If he thought Kennedy did 00:07:41.300 --> 00:07:45.577 better than Nixon, that would drive it well. So then political hacks like 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:48.356 me started thinking, well maybe if we can influence the Walters of the 00:07:48.389 --> 00:07:54.277 world is very rare in the olden days before radio that the public had any 00:07:54.310 --> 00:07:58.147 idea what the president, what the presidential candidates stood for. Uh, 00:07:58.180 --> 00:08:03.447 they did their train trips through the whistle stops. But that was a 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:08.236 handful of people who got to actually see them and very few seconds and 00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:11.937 not debates in the first place. But now it has reached an absurd level 00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:14.567 where it's really a waste of time for the candidates, frankly, it's a 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:17.327 waste of time for the journalists because people think for themselves. 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:21.406 What's interesting is, I think we've come kind of full circle on spin. I 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:28.676 think when it first started, there was more intellectual honesty to it on 00:08:28.709 --> 00:08:34.927 both sides. And this was years ago. I think now it's become such a circus. 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:39.187 How has been transformed the american political experience. I don't think 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:43.197 it's transformed at all. I just think it's created an enormous waste of 00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:46.756 time for political operatives and reporters. It's a exercise has gotten 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:49.996 completely out of control. It's become self parody. But in terms of 00:08:50.029 --> 00:08:53.937 affecting anybody's opinion. Do you think anyone with an I. Q bigger than 00:08:53.970 --> 00:08:56.807 their waistline that listens to a paid operative of one candidate saying 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.356 we want and think, oh now I see what happened. Spin is actually part of 00:09:00.389 --> 00:09:04.256 the political process. I mean they call where we are now Spin Alley. Uh, 00:09:04.289 --> 00:09:06.717 you pretty much know what the bush person is going to say and what they 00:09:06.750 --> 00:09:10.506 carry person is gonna say. We already know that each side won the debate. 00:09:10.539 --> 00:09:15.266 So I think the viewer by this point is discerning enough to know that this 00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:18.707 is spin and they know that they're hearing both sides that will eventually 00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:21.766 wind up, as we say at Fox news. You decide people make up their own mind. 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:29.136 Well, we're sitting here in the press section. The spinning is going on 00:09:29.169 --> 00:09:35.386 over there. Going over there is an act of free will. You don't have to. 00:09:35.419 --> 00:09:39.687 We're just wondering how spin has transformed the political process. I 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.896 let other people decide all that I give my true heartfelt, intellectually 00:09:43.929 --> 00:09:47.077 honest opinion. One of the problems I have is I know too much about john 00:09:47.110 --> 00:09:50.657 Kerry. I know john Kerry in spite of him saying he's never changed his 00:09:50.690 --> 00:09:55.346 position on Iraq. I know he has and I can cite them and I can, would you 00:09:55.379 --> 00:09:59.537 like me to, it's kind of like seven year Locusts annoying. No, that's not 00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:03.646 true locus can do real damage. I guess it's like, you know psoriasis? 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.947 Maybe it's annoying, but it's not fatal. Why is it? Why is it still here? 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:13.157 No idea. I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out. I guess a whole lot 00:10:13.190 --> 00:10:16.116 of people looking for something to do with their time. I can't believe the 00:10:16.149 --> 00:10:18.947 number of people here who will tell you what it is, you're supposed to 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:21.986 think about what we're going to hear. You know, we'll spend 90 minutes 00:10:22.019 --> 00:10:25.486 analyzing the 90 minutes of the debate and we can spend 900 hours after 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:28.006 that with all these different folks getting their perspective and 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.587 everybody's got a kind of partisan ax to grind. So you gotta have your 00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:35.626 detector tuned to a very high level. What's changed is the formalizing of 00:10:35.659 --> 00:10:42.366 its creation of rooms the evolution of a term. But fooling around with 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:47.276 journalists trying to influence what they write. Probably began in ancient 00:10:47.309 --> 00:10:51.356 Rome political processes spit. I mean, it's sort of putting your gloss on 00:10:51.389 --> 00:10:54.827 the facts at hand. So that's why, I mean, look, politics is about making 00:10:54.860 --> 00:10:57.626 arguments. It's about convincing people that you're right and the other 00:10:57.659 --> 00:11:01.427 guy is wrong. And so I mean, that spin is intrinsic to that. I take 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:04.337 seriously that these people believe that their candidate won for the 00:11:04.370 --> 00:11:09.057 following reasons. I don't take seriously that that's the fact of the 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:14.106 matter. And so spin has become just, you know, half empty, half full and 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:19.677 has gotten so overloaded with so many people saying all the same things 00:11:19.710 --> 00:11:23.516 that it's almost something you do tune out completely. It does make it a 00:11:23.549 --> 00:11:27.207 little harder I think for reporters to sort of sit through the arguments 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:30.437 that both sides are making. And I think it makes it more important than 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:35.396 ever that reporters who cover politics don't just listen to and take for 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:39.707 granted what they're told but that they do their homework, they call up 00:11:39.740 --> 00:11:43.167 and they get the statistics to back up what these candidates are saying 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.437 that you don't just take what is being said to you at face value. This 00:11:47.470 --> 00:11:51.037 started out with that, you know, in a very informal way with people going 00:11:51.070 --> 00:11:53.776 to some people they knew and there were no cameras and you just say what 00:11:53.809 --> 00:11:56.266 do you think? And sometimes you can actually get a halfway honest answer. 00:11:56.299 --> 00:12:00.006 But the only time you get an honest answer from one of an operative is 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.327 you can call them on the phone and you've known him for a long time and 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:05.157 you have a quiet anonymous conversation who was going to stand in front of 00:12:05.190 --> 00:12:11.846 a camera and say my guy really stunk. It's just it's or even I guess we 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.596 may have lost this one. You know, three days later they'll they'll tell 00:12:14.629 --> 00:12:17.986 you, you know, for natural attribution what happened? It makes it almost 00:12:18.019 --> 00:12:21.417 impossible for an average person I think to get any kind of an unfettered 00:12:21.450 --> 00:12:27.317 , unfiltered view of the process. I mean you just have to work extra to 00:12:27.350 --> 00:12:32.427 somehow tease out the truth out of all of the gunk that's being stuck down 00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:37.827 your throat. I do not know how this thing got to where it is. I don't 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:41.297 participate in it. I'm here. Only because the CNN cameras of her after 00:12:41.330 --> 00:12:45.356 this debate, I got to go on and talk about this. I think everybody could 00:12:45.389 --> 00:12:49.467 get a lot more sleep if they just didn't do this. But I cannot tell you 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:52.957 why they do it. You might need a trained psychologist. Not a humble 00:12:52.990 --> 00:12:57.407 country journalist. Mixed feelings about spin aside the fact is that once 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:02.896 the debate is actually over, the real spin begins, I wasn't mr robe 00:13:02.929 --> 00:13:06.067 fantastic. Unbelievably great. The president had him on the ropes right 00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:08.947 from the beginning and it was great on what they thought was gonna be 00:13:08.980 --> 00:13:12.547 there. Stare turf. The president was absolutely terrific reverend model 00:13:12.580 --> 00:13:16.746 happened with another four years of President Bush. The gap between the 00:13:16.779 --> 00:13:19.927 rich and the poor would get much wider 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.376 the Supreme Court of the stack with extremists. Judges. How did your uncle 00:13:23.409 --> 00:13:26.837 do tonight, sir? I thought he did really well. Uh but you know, you're 00:13:26.870 --> 00:13:30.346 expecting that answer. Clearly this is a big win for john Kerry, three for 00:13:30.379 --> 00:13:33.787 three George Bush bobbed and weaved all night. He didn't answer any of the 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:37.876 questions while the message may run against the facts of the matter. It 00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:42.287 doesn't really matter what the facts are in the spin room the message is 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:47.526 everything. It's a dog eat dog electoral process. I thought the president 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:52.006 really showed a lot of class today. I thought john Kerry hit it out of the 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:57.606 park. I thought the president was really caught exaggerating. He wasn't on 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:03.307 his game. I thought john Kerry looked stunned when he liberty blah. What? 00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:10.807 Who wants me to spin for them? Come on, I'll hold to 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.217 okay. Now that you know more about spin. Let's hear more of it from some 00:14:15.250 --> 00:14:19.807 of the biggest spinners around last night. 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.077 And I think what tonight's debate showed is that the president finishes 00:14:23.110 --> 00:14:25.937 strong. You've heard a lot, uh, they've tried to spend you from the other 00:14:25.970 --> 00:14:28.526 side, that Senator Kerry has a record of finishing strong. I thought 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.797 tonight was his poorest debate performance. It's President Bush who 00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:35.317 clearly is the one who can finish strong. Uh, he'll talk about the future. 00:14:35.350 --> 00:14:37.846 That's one thing you don't hear much about from john Kerry, you hear a 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.006 lot of complaints, but you don't hear comments about the future and where 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.476 he wants to lead this country and his optimism about The fact that we can 00:14:44.509 --> 00:14:48.287 create more jobs that we can make health care more accessible and more 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:51.297 affordable as President Bush says without putting the government in charge 00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:55.846 and therefore leading to rationing and restrictions on what you can or 00:14:55.879 --> 00:15:00.167 cannot what kind of care you can or cannot get. Sen Kerry one. I believe 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:04.577 that his strength on domestic issues was apparent. His emphasis on the 00:15:04.610 --> 00:15:09.376 minimum wage, his emphasis on immigration, earned legalization. His 00:15:09.409 --> 00:15:15.687 emphasis on job creation was important is protecting Social Security. I 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:20.287 believe that he was on very strong ground and I believe that he won. It's 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.697 three for three and now on getting the votes. I think we're gonna be in 00:15:24.730 --> 00:15:28.106 for 18 days of what will be a very close campaign. We've always said, this 00:15:28.139 --> 00:15:30.667 will be close. We said when we were up, we said when we were down, the 00:15:30.700 --> 00:15:34.057 country is closely divided. And for the next 18 days, the American people 00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:37.516 are going to have to decide if they want the taxes to go up to keep their 00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:41.157 taxes down, if they want their private health care or do they want 00:15:41.190 --> 00:15:45.317 government to take over their health care? Do they want a strong national 00:15:45.350 --> 00:15:49.096 defense where we take the battle of the enemy or do we want a global test 00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:52.677 that even senator Kerry couldn't explain or defend tonight? I thought, for 00:15:52.710 --> 00:15:55.746 example, the discussion on health care was very clear. He showed a clear 00:15:55.779 --> 00:16:00.626 mastery of the issue and laid out exactly how his plan will work and, and 00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:04.366 , and, and where the money's gonna come from. And I thought on the minimum 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:09.047 wage, uh, you know, he spoke very clearly about the plight of working 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:12.587 families and how that's so difficult for them to make ends meet when, when 00:16:12.620 --> 00:16:15.766 it came to the president's turn, he changed the subject to education. Well 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.616 , how does, I mean, education is important. Clearly important. But it 00:16:19.649 --> 00:16:23.337 doesn't put food on the table today or put a roof over people's heads or 00:16:23.370 --> 00:16:26.307 pay the gasoline bill. Well, tonight was a clear victory for president 00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:29.776 Bush. She brought the complete package. He showed his heart, his passion, 00:16:29.809 --> 00:16:33.606 his vision for America for the next four years on the key issues facing 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.626 our country. And he said that there was a clear difference. And I think 00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:40.136 that was clear by the end of the night, that Senator Kerry's record in the 00:16:40.169 --> 00:16:43.996 United States Senate shows that he's for higher taxes, more regulation, uh 00:16:44.029 --> 00:16:48.226 , weaker defenses. And that's not what America wants during these historic 00:16:48.259 --> 00:16:52.226 times. We live in this morning. The last poll I saw dealing with Arizona, 00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:58.827 uh, Carrie is about 3 to 4 points behind. So that means in this last 23 00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:06.006 weeks that the Kerry campaign has now made Arizona a battleground state. 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.907 And I think this debate here in Arizona is going again energize our 00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:16.526 community. So I think that Arizona has a very good chance of turning blue. 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:23.006 The president was in command. He was confident he was clear, he was calm. 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.746 Uh, he had a comprehensive understanding of the issues and I think john 00:17:26.779 --> 00:17:30.377 Kerry frankly had some real bloopers tonight. What were they said? Well, 00:17:30.410 --> 00:17:32.786 he said that the president had never met with the congressional black 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:35.427 caucus. That's a flat out lie. The president has met with the 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:39.207 congressional black caucus in the White House George Bush didn't even show 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.516 up tonight. I think this was the worst. Believe or not. I don't think it 00:17:42.549 --> 00:17:45.907 could be worse than the first night, but he didn't answer any questions. 00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:49.167 He was very evasive john Kerry clearly looked like the present United 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.377 States tonight. We're coming out here with incredible momentum. And the 00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:54.877 fact is that the american people look at the issues that emerged again 00:17:54.910 --> 00:17:58.447 tonight. Senator Kerry coming out in favor of amnesty for those who have 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:01.097 come to this country illegally as opposed to the President's call for a 00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:04.726 Guest Worker program, calling continually for higher taxes, more federal 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.796 spending uh saying that indeed he does think that we should treat 00:18:08.829 --> 00:18:11.467 terrorists access law enforcement matters. We did that for a long time in 00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:15.236 this country. Mr Bush one day, 00:18:15.269 --> 00:18:19.117 but for the picture, not the King in the White House. The next day I sent 00:18:19.150 --> 00:18:23.967 a large the Supreme Court to kill affirmative action next year later. Put 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.887 a picture later rita dr King's grave site the next day. Put on the right 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:35.556 wing judge on the federal bench trend lost recommendation it's deception 00:18:35.589 --> 00:18:40.246 is wolves and sheep clothing. We deserve better. I think clearly tonight 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.976 you saw the difference between a president who took action when he saw 00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:48.316 problems facing the nation and Senator Kerry who just talked about the 00:18:48.349 --> 00:18:52.736 complaints that he had about our country. Well, you know, this is uh, some 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:57.647 people said and many uh, incorrectly this state was not in play anymore. 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:00.576 Well, that's a four point difference and probably a three point 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:05.526 difference evolved. And so this state is very much in play and having the 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:11.306 debate here just adds to the importance of Arizona and those 10 electoral 00:19:11.339 --> 00:19:14.996 votes that both men need and we are confident we're gonna get to carry. 00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:19.996 Well, I thought the president delivered an outstanding performance. I know 00:19:20.029 --> 00:19:24.486 his first performance. Uh, some people thought wasn't up to his usual 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:28.256 standards and the second one they thought he did well. But I think he 00:19:28.289 --> 00:19:32.056 really hit it out of the ballpark this time. I think he made it clear when 00:19:32.089 --> 00:19:37.086 he talked about health care and the fact that we can and must afford 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.437 health care for our citizens and corrected Bush to make sure it was clear 00:19:40.470 --> 00:19:46.377 that it's not some government program foot. His thing is comments about 00:19:46.410 --> 00:19:51.437 the minimum wage is very important because there's so many women who, uh, 00:19:51.470 --> 00:19:55.687 particularly single women who are working hard and not getting sufficient 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.726 to take care of their kids. And I think he made some very, very strong 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.486 points with regard to education, no child left behind. The president makes 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.996 a big big deal of no child left behind, but yet. And still he refuses to 00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:12.157 fund about $28 billion. I felt great on style, on substance, on 00:20:12.190 --> 00:20:15.516 credibility. The president and great, I think he was relaxed. He had some 00:20:15.549 --> 00:20:19.717 very funny lines but he also had a lot of tough talk about the things that 00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:23.066 this country has to do. It is a war against international terrorism. We 00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:25.957 have to win it. It is not a nuisance. It's not something that we have to 00:20:25.990 --> 00:20:29.697 manage. Its another home run for john Kerry was particularly pleased by 00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:33.907 his answers. I thought on the economy, on jobs, on the minimum wage, on 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:37.887 health care, on immigration. In every case he's been clear, he's specific 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.566 , he's really talk to people about his where we really are, here's what we 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.046 need to do about it and what a contrast with George Bush who just seemed 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.506 once again tonight to be out of touch with reality. Now that we've heard 00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:52.576 from all the professionals, what did real people think about the debate, 00:20:52.609 --> 00:20:56.576 paul Atkinson got some of that reaction. At Wells Fargo Arena on the A. S 00:20:56.609 --> 00:21:00.907 . U. Campus where people gathered to watch the debate. 00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:06.226 A crowd of several 1000 fills the lower level. At Wells Fargo Arena, 00:21:06.259 --> 00:21:11.016 President Bush supporters sit next to Senator Kerry fans, their eyes glued 00:21:11.049 --> 00:21:15.357 to a giant big screen. Unlike Spectators inside nearby Gammage Auditorium 00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:21.306 , these debate watchers are free to cheer on their candidates. Heather 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:26.197 tweet Malone wears her faith in President Bush on her sleeve or in this 00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:31.107 case on her arm. She grew up in a conservative Republican family so far, 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:35.357 all we've been hearing about is more this Iraq and it's nice to hear a 00:21:35.390 --> 00:21:40.707 little bit more about domestic issues, about education 00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:44.957 highly nap watches the debate with her mom. She supports john Kerry, I 00:21:44.990 --> 00:21:48.766 think the bait is going very well so far. I just wish both of the 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.756 candidates would kind of go off on a limb and stop repeating the same 00:21:52.789 --> 00:21:55.677 issues and bring up new issues that haven't been brought up in the last 00:21:55.710 --> 00:21:59.516 two debates because this is their final chance to say how they stand on 00:21:59.549 --> 00:22:04.137 all of the issues supporters of ralph Nader's sit and watch in silent 00:22:04.170 --> 00:22:08.677 protest. Nader is not on the ballot in Arizona and wasn't invited to the 00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:14.607 presidential debates is absurd for us to call this a presidential debates 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.857 since it's not really presidential, it's just the republicans and the 00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:22.486 democrats. There's a bunch of other candidates that are eligible to be 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:26.887 involved in the debate, but they're not because the two party system is 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.347 keeping them out. I think it's a shame for Arizona. It's a shame for 00:22:30.380 --> 00:22:33.907 America. It's a shame for democracy. While most in attendance favor a 00:22:33.940 --> 00:22:38.076 particular candidate, steve lang is one of the few undecided voters 00:22:38.109 --> 00:22:42.056 watching the debate here. I think we really need to sit back and really 00:22:42.089 --> 00:22:47.036 decide I'm taking the time to weigh out each issue, See what works for me 00:22:47.069 --> 00:22:51.167 , what will work for my family and trying to line it up with my 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.056 perspective and my view lang has concerns with how the president has 00:22:55.089 --> 00:22:59.536 handled a few domestic issues. He's also wary of the massachusetts senator. 00:22:59.569 --> 00:23:03.857 I think they both need to do a better job with relating to the people. I 00:23:03.890 --> 00:23:09.026 think I think there's a tendency as we see with all of our politicians, 00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:14.306 they are all well to do their, they don't associate with what the working 00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:18.957 class, the middle class, so to speak. And there's a huge differentiation 00:23:18.990 --> 00:23:24.326 and I think that's one of the issues that I have to think about in my 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:28.276 candidate, the political science student and Gulf War veteran says it will 00:23:28.309 --> 00:23:31.927 take more than this debate to convince him who to vote for. But come 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:36.296 November two, he'll be prepared to cast his ballot. He just hopes others 00:23:36.329 --> 00:23:39.607 plan to do the same. 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:43.217 It's been an incredible week for A S. U. And Nobel prize winner, a giant 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:46.937 football game coming up. And of course the presidential debate paul 00:23:46.970 --> 00:23:50.647 Atkinson tells us about the benefits derived from the debate by not only a 00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.897 S. U, but also Tempe 00:23:53.930 --> 00:23:58.256 an assortment of the Valley's movers and shakers watch the debate inside 00:23:58.289 --> 00:24:02.296 the old main building on the A. S. U. Campus, among them, longtime 00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:06.127 television journalist and valley resident Hugh downs. It is a more 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.367 important election than any time in my memory and I go back to when 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.377 Wendell Willkie was Was running opposite Roosevelt for what was 00:24:13.410 --> 00:24:18.826 Roosevelt's third term in 1940. This is a very very crucial debate. It's 00:24:18.859 --> 00:24:24.197 very strong feelings on both sides and uh it's the outcome of it is going 00:24:24.230 --> 00:24:28.016 to be extremely important. A su first approached the commission on 00:24:28.049 --> 00:24:32.717 presidential debates about hosting 1 12 years ago. Little did anyone 00:24:32.750 --> 00:24:36.947 realize then the significance it would hold now? Well, I think it's 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:40.877 tremendous for Arizona to be in the national spotlight as we are for the 00:24:40.910 --> 00:24:46.316 debates. It especially having culminating debate. I don't know who is a 00:24:46.349 --> 00:24:49.996 genius that thought of getting the last one usually that's the booby prize. 00:24:50.029 --> 00:24:53.107 But in this case it is the most important debate in the history of this 00:24:53.140 --> 00:24:58.066 election. The last thing I said to him from the debate attracted hundreds 00:24:58.099 --> 00:25:04.447 of national and international reporters now live from Tempe Arizona site 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:09.566 of the final presidential debate, judy, Woodruff's inside politics, CNN 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:14.726 and MSNBC broadcast several shows live from the A. S. U. Campus largest 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:19.046 city and home to Arizona State University and it just created a buzz. I 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:23.847 mean everywhere is phoenix Tempe. The valley has become the center of of 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:28.107 the nation now and everybody's here and economically it's been a great 00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:31.536 boom because people are starting to see phoenix in the valley again and as 00:25:31.569 --> 00:25:36.417 a mayor, I'm just, you know, excited again that phoenix is once again sort 00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:40.457 of the focus of the nation. The 00:25:40.490 --> 00:25:44.746 media attention could not have come at a better time for a issue with an 00:25:44.779 --> 00:25:49.357 economics professor awarded a nobel prize and its undefeated football team 00:25:49.390 --> 00:25:53.286 taking on top ranked USC. I think what we're showing is that we're 00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:57.647 competitive on many, many fronts, competitive academically competitive in 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:01.076 the national political scene and competitive on the athletic field. And 00:26:01.109 --> 00:26:04.097 we're very excited about this has been a tremendous opportunity for our 00:26:04.130 --> 00:26:08.647 students. Uh 15,000 students signed up for the lottery to win tickets to 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.796 get into the lottery are into the debate. 13,000 will be at Wells Fargo 00:26:12.829 --> 00:26:16.746 Arena. It's unbelievable. A lot of excitement. We're very happy sponsors 00:26:16.779 --> 00:26:21.717 paid some $2.5 million to help offset the costs of hosting the debate. 00:26:21.750 --> 00:26:25.927 While the final tab is expected to be much higher. Many state leaders 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.756 think the benefits were worth it. Boy, it's a big coup for issue. It 00:26:29.789 --> 00:26:34.937 really is 60 million people around the country knowing the issue and where 00:26:34.970 --> 00:26:38.637 it is and what it stands for. It was just really good. So for Arizona in 00:26:38.670 --> 00:26:42.957 general. Yeah, the debate here was just a good day for Arizona. Well, it's 00:26:42.990 --> 00:26:47.536 been great for Arizona. I think it signals even more how we're moving 00:26:47.569 --> 00:26:51.897 forward, moving ahead. The whole nation has been focused on our state the 00:26:51.930 --> 00:26:55.447 last few days and on Tempe and on a issue. And I want to really 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.357 congratulate the people of Arizona state in Tempe for, for putting on what 00:26:59.390 --> 00:27:04.286 I think has been a seminal incident in this campaign, a seminal event that 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:10.006 may make the difference in the end, 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:14.726 the presidential debate in Tempe has ended and the candidate's head out on 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:19.667 the campaign trail for the final 2.5 weeks of the race. How did the event 00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:25.046 at a su go will the debate have an impact on the vote? Join us for the 00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:30.207 journalist roundtable Friday at seven on Horizon And thanks for joining us 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:37.506 on Thursday. I'm Michael Grant. Have a Great one. Good night. 00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:45.539 Yeah 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:58.207 if you have comments about Horizon please contact us at. The address is 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:02.326 listed on your screen. 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