281. Thank you.
Yeah, Support for Channel eight programming is made possible in part by a
. P. S. Making sure our customers have the electricity they need to power
the things they value A. P. S. The power to make it happen. The second
annual Mesa storytelling festival presenting two days of storytellers
entertainment, october 22nd and 23rd. Downtown mesa on the greens by
centennial hall tickets available at 48 oh 834 44 36.
V. Estancia An Arizona community featuring 45 models by seven builders.
Distancia is located north on lake Pleasant road west at Happy Valley
Road. Grand opening happening now.
Yeah,
mm hmm. Tonight on horizon a debate recap here. Post debate reaction from
bob Schieffer, the moderator, yesterday's debate in Tempe. Also, we'll
take you inside the spin room where candidates supporters tell you why
their guy won. In addition, we get the view of normal people who watched
the debate at Wells Fargo Arena. And we'll tell you how hosting the debate
in Tempe boosted timothy and s you that's next on Horizon.
Horizon is made possible by the friends of Channel eight members who
provide financial support to this. Arizona PBS station. Thank you.
Good evening and welcome to Horizon. I'm Michael Grant. He had the best
seat in the House CBS news chief Washington correspondent bob Schieffer
was seated in front of President Bush and Senator Kerry asking the
candidates questions last night. Producer paul Atkinson caught up with
Schieffer after the debate.
Gentlemen, welcome to you both by cohen toss. The first question goes to
Senator kerrey bob Schieffer moderated the final debate in one of the most
contentious presidential elections in history and I thought my job in this
debate was to try to give the american people a better understanding and a
better picture of just who these men are. So I wasn't trying to trip him
up and get him to say something. They didn't mean I wanted to know. I
wanted people to understand exactly who they are and what they stand for.
Mr President, what do you say to someone in this country who has lost his
job to someone overseas, who's being paid a fraction of what that job paid
here in the United States. I say bob, I've got policies to continue to
grow our economy. Schieffer asked a wide range of questions on topics
ranging from jobs and healthcare to homosexuality and religion, but I must
say watching these two men, I thought both of them did very well. I
thought Carrie had a had a very good command of facts. I thought the
president, I thought especially he did well on the faith question when I
asked him, how does your faith impact on policy? Uh that could have been
in some ways, kind of a trick question, you know, but I thought he handled
it very well. I doubt that very many people are going to get mad at a man
for saying, you know, I pray a lot. One topic that Schieffer hadn't
originally planned on asking was an important one to Arizona and mr
President. I got more email this week on this question than any other
question. And it is about immigration. It's not something that's gotten a
lot of attention in Washington where I'm based it seems like. But boy,
these emails started, you know, you can tell when it's an orchestrated
campaign and you can tell when it's people who really want to know this
was not an orchestrated campaign. But I would say that I got more emails
about immigration than any other single any other single subject. The host
of CBS news face the nation was able to ask some follow up questions. But
per debate rules couldn't make candidates answer every question. There are
a couple of times when both of them I think just ignored the question
entirely. And that's that's when I was a little bit frustrated. That's
when I wish I could have asked a follow up question. Uh, I thought there
were a couple of times with both of them could have hit back at the other
guy and scored some points and and they didn't. As moderator Schieffer
says he was not in a position to judge who won the debate. He just hopes
his questions help voters get the information they needed to cast an
informed vote.
On the other hand, it's called the spin room or spin alley. Either way,
there is spin involved and there was lots of that going on last night in
the big media tent next to Gammage Auditorium. The site of the debate,
Larry Lemons tells us more about the spin room and how spin works
right? They came
they saw
they spun. Well, I think the president will lay out his vision for the
next four years in terms of how we continue to strengthen the economy, how
we improve healthcare. So we have lower costs through medical liability
reform. John Kerry has done a very effective job holding the president
accountable for his record both at home and abroad and laying out a very
positive vision, an alternative choice for a new, a new direction in this
country. Well, the president has a wonderful track record on domestic
policy and on our economy and we'll talk about that track record because
it's built a solid foundation for us to have a very, very optimistic
futures. This administration is running from its record and to use
President Bush's own words, you can run, but you can't hide well, he can't
hide from having done almost nothing for 3.5 years except to get us into a
war we didn't have to fight. And this is before the debate for the
reporters convenience or perhaps inconvenience, depending on your point of
view, this structure was created partly or the facilitation of spin. So
what exactly is Spin Fox News Sean Hannity and Kari Stafford chad Clanton
illustrates he's like the number one spot. Listen you might as well, I'm
going to be him for tonight. It doesn't matter how bad he gets. Carrie
gets beaten tonight, he's going to say Kerry wins. That's what spin. We
won the first two. Every public policy lost. We lost the second debate.
Here's the question are we going to see a furious George? He wants to be
a host. He wants to be a host. I know what you're gonna see. His passion
and genuine concern. Are we going to see flip flopper tonight? Are we
going to see are we going to see the dolphin tonight? We're going to see
flipper tonight. We're going to see a furious George or smirking and
scowling. Is it possible that he will vote to raise taxes on the stage
tonight? He's voted, he's voted to cut taxes. He's going to cut you cut
defense Intelligence week in America's defenses. Well, George Bush had
made a single mistake tonight. Have you ever made a mistake? No, never. No
debating you mistake. All reporters don't agree on the value of spin or do
they agree on how it began? Nor do they even agree on what is spin? They
do know it's become an accepted If not hated part of the electoral process.
About 20 years ago, there really was no such thing as spin. And what
happened is it's an ap reporter named walter Mears and he filed the first
story from each debate or each major event and journalists having a pack
mentality would crowd around walter's typewriter because their editors
would want to know why is really different from a PS and so walter would
set the tone for everybody else's coverage. If he thought Kennedy did
better than Nixon, that would drive it well. So then political hacks like
me started thinking, well maybe if we can influence the Walters of the
world is very rare in the olden days before radio that the public had any
idea what the president, what the presidential candidates stood for. Uh,
they did their train trips through the whistle stops. But that was a
handful of people who got to actually see them and very few seconds and
not debates in the first place. But now it has reached an absurd level
where it's really a waste of time for the candidates, frankly, it's a
waste of time for the journalists because people think for themselves.
What's interesting is, I think we've come kind of full circle on spin. I
think when it first started, there was more intellectual honesty to it on
both sides. And this was years ago. I think now it's become such a circus.
How has been transformed the american political experience. I don't think
it's transformed at all. I just think it's created an enormous waste of
time for political operatives and reporters. It's a exercise has gotten
completely out of control. It's become self parody. But in terms of
affecting anybody's opinion. Do you think anyone with an I. Q bigger than
their waistline that listens to a paid operative of one candidate saying
we want and think, oh now I see what happened. Spin is actually part of
the political process. I mean they call where we are now Spin Alley. Uh,
you pretty much know what the bush person is going to say and what they
carry person is gonna say. We already know that each side won the debate.
So I think the viewer by this point is discerning enough to know that this
is spin and they know that they're hearing both sides that will eventually
wind up, as we say at Fox news. You decide people make up their own mind.
Well, we're sitting here in the press section. The spinning is going on
over there. Going over there is an act of free will. You don't have to.
We're just wondering how spin has transformed the political process. I
let other people decide all that I give my true heartfelt, intellectually
honest opinion. One of the problems I have is I know too much about john
Kerry. I know john Kerry in spite of him saying he's never changed his
position on Iraq. I know he has and I can cite them and I can, would you
like me to, it's kind of like seven year Locusts annoying. No, that's not
true locus can do real damage. I guess it's like, you know psoriasis?
Maybe it's annoying, but it's not fatal. Why is it? Why is it still here?
No idea. I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out. I guess a whole lot
of people looking for something to do with their time. I can't believe the
number of people here who will tell you what it is, you're supposed to
think about what we're going to hear. You know, we'll spend 90 minutes
analyzing the 90 minutes of the debate and we can spend 900 hours after
that with all these different folks getting their perspective and
everybody's got a kind of partisan ax to grind. So you gotta have your
detector tuned to a very high level. What's changed is the formalizing of
its creation of rooms the evolution of a term. But fooling around with
journalists trying to influence what they write. Probably began in ancient
Rome political processes spit. I mean, it's sort of putting your gloss on
the facts at hand. So that's why, I mean, look, politics is about making
arguments. It's about convincing people that you're right and the other
guy is wrong. And so I mean, that spin is intrinsic to that. I take
seriously that these people believe that their candidate won for the
following reasons. I don't take seriously that that's the fact of the
matter. And so spin has become just, you know, half empty, half full and
has gotten so overloaded with so many people saying all the same things
that it's almost something you do tune out completely. It does make it a
little harder I think for reporters to sort of sit through the arguments
that both sides are making. And I think it makes it more important than
ever that reporters who cover politics don't just listen to and take for
granted what they're told but that they do their homework, they call up
and they get the statistics to back up what these candidates are saying
that you don't just take what is being said to you at face value. This
started out with that, you know, in a very informal way with people going
to some people they knew and there were no cameras and you just say what
do you think? And sometimes you can actually get a halfway honest answer.
But the only time you get an honest answer from one of an operative is
you can call them on the phone and you've known him for a long time and
you have a quiet anonymous conversation who was going to stand in front of
a camera and say my guy really stunk. It's just it's or even I guess we
may have lost this one. You know, three days later they'll they'll tell
you, you know, for natural attribution what happened? It makes it almost
impossible for an average person I think to get any kind of an unfettered
, unfiltered view of the process. I mean you just have to work extra to
somehow tease out the truth out of all of the gunk that's being stuck down
your throat. I do not know how this thing got to where it is. I don't
participate in it. I'm here. Only because the CNN cameras of her after
this debate, I got to go on and talk about this. I think everybody could
get a lot more sleep if they just didn't do this. But I cannot tell you
why they do it. You might need a trained psychologist. Not a humble
country journalist. Mixed feelings about spin aside the fact is that once
the debate is actually over, the real spin begins, I wasn't mr robe
fantastic. Unbelievably great. The president had him on the ropes right
from the beginning and it was great on what they thought was gonna be
there. Stare turf. The president was absolutely terrific reverend model
happened with another four years of President Bush. The gap between the
rich and the poor would get much wider
the Supreme Court of the stack with extremists. Judges. How did your uncle
do tonight, sir? I thought he did really well. Uh but you know, you're
expecting that answer. Clearly this is a big win for john Kerry, three for
three George Bush bobbed and weaved all night. He didn't answer any of the
questions while the message may run against the facts of the matter. It
doesn't really matter what the facts are in the spin room the message is
everything. It's a dog eat dog electoral process. I thought the president
really showed a lot of class today. I thought john Kerry hit it out of the
park. I thought the president was really caught exaggerating. He wasn't on
his game. I thought john Kerry looked stunned when he liberty blah. What?
Who wants me to spin for them? Come on, I'll hold to
okay. Now that you know more about spin. Let's hear more of it from some
of the biggest spinners around last night.
And I think what tonight's debate showed is that the president finishes
strong. You've heard a lot, uh, they've tried to spend you from the other
side, that Senator Kerry has a record of finishing strong. I thought
tonight was his poorest debate performance. It's President Bush who
clearly is the one who can finish strong. Uh, he'll talk about the future.
That's one thing you don't hear much about from john Kerry, you hear a
lot of complaints, but you don't hear comments about the future and where
he wants to lead this country and his optimism about The fact that we can
create more jobs that we can make health care more accessible and more
affordable as President Bush says without putting the government in charge
and therefore leading to rationing and restrictions on what you can or
cannot what kind of care you can or cannot get. Sen Kerry one. I believe
that his strength on domestic issues was apparent. His emphasis on the
minimum wage, his emphasis on immigration, earned legalization. His
emphasis on job creation was important is protecting Social Security. I
believe that he was on very strong ground and I believe that he won. It's
three for three and now on getting the votes. I think we're gonna be in
for 18 days of what will be a very close campaign. We've always said, this
will be close. We said when we were up, we said when we were down, the
country is closely divided. And for the next 18 days, the American people
are going to have to decide if they want the taxes to go up to keep their
taxes down, if they want their private health care or do they want
government to take over their health care? Do they want a strong national
defense where we take the battle of the enemy or do we want a global test
that even senator Kerry couldn't explain or defend tonight? I thought, for
example, the discussion on health care was very clear. He showed a clear
mastery of the issue and laid out exactly how his plan will work and, and
, and, and where the money's gonna come from. And I thought on the minimum
wage, uh, you know, he spoke very clearly about the plight of working
families and how that's so difficult for them to make ends meet when, when
it came to the president's turn, he changed the subject to education. Well
, how does, I mean, education is important. Clearly important. But it
doesn't put food on the table today or put a roof over people's heads or
pay the gasoline bill. Well, tonight was a clear victory for president
Bush. She brought the complete package. He showed his heart, his passion,
his vision for America for the next four years on the key issues facing
our country. And he said that there was a clear difference. And I think
that was clear by the end of the night, that Senator Kerry's record in the
United States Senate shows that he's for higher taxes, more regulation, uh
, weaker defenses. And that's not what America wants during these historic
times. We live in this morning. The last poll I saw dealing with Arizona,
uh, Carrie is about 3 to 4 points behind. So that means in this last 23
weeks that the Kerry campaign has now made Arizona a battleground state.
And I think this debate here in Arizona is going again energize our
community. So I think that Arizona has a very good chance of turning blue.
The president was in command. He was confident he was clear, he was calm.
Uh, he had a comprehensive understanding of the issues and I think john
Kerry frankly had some real bloopers tonight. What were they said? Well,
he said that the president had never met with the congressional black
caucus. That's a flat out lie. The president has met with the
congressional black caucus in the White House George Bush didn't even show
up tonight. I think this was the worst. Believe or not. I don't think it
could be worse than the first night, but he didn't answer any questions.
He was very evasive john Kerry clearly looked like the present United
States tonight. We're coming out here with incredible momentum. And the
fact is that the american people look at the issues that emerged again
tonight. Senator Kerry coming out in favor of amnesty for those who have
come to this country illegally as opposed to the President's call for a
Guest Worker program, calling continually for higher taxes, more federal
spending uh saying that indeed he does think that we should treat
terrorists access law enforcement matters. We did that for a long time in
this country. Mr Bush one day,
but for the picture, not the King in the White House. The next day I sent
a large the Supreme Court to kill affirmative action next year later. Put
a picture later rita dr King's grave site the next day. Put on the right
wing judge on the federal bench trend lost recommendation it's deception
is wolves and sheep clothing. We deserve better. I think clearly tonight
you saw the difference between a president who took action when he saw
problems facing the nation and Senator Kerry who just talked about the
complaints that he had about our country. Well, you know, this is uh, some
people said and many uh, incorrectly this state was not in play anymore.
Well, that's a four point difference and probably a three point
difference evolved. And so this state is very much in play and having the
debate here just adds to the importance of Arizona and those 10 electoral
votes that both men need and we are confident we're gonna get to carry.
Well, I thought the president delivered an outstanding performance. I know
his first performance. Uh, some people thought wasn't up to his usual
standards and the second one they thought he did well. But I think he
really hit it out of the ballpark this time. I think he made it clear when
he talked about health care and the fact that we can and must afford
health care for our citizens and corrected Bush to make sure it was clear
that it's not some government program foot. His thing is comments about
the minimum wage is very important because there's so many women who, uh,
particularly single women who are working hard and not getting sufficient
to take care of their kids. And I think he made some very, very strong
points with regard to education, no child left behind. The president makes
a big big deal of no child left behind, but yet. And still he refuses to
fund about $28 billion. I felt great on style, on substance, on
credibility. The president and great, I think he was relaxed. He had some
very funny lines but he also had a lot of tough talk about the things that
this country has to do. It is a war against international terrorism. We
have to win it. It is not a nuisance. It's not something that we have to
manage. Its another home run for john Kerry was particularly pleased by
his answers. I thought on the economy, on jobs, on the minimum wage, on
health care, on immigration. In every case he's been clear, he's specific
, he's really talk to people about his where we really are, here's what we
need to do about it and what a contrast with George Bush who just seemed
once again tonight to be out of touch with reality. Now that we've heard
from all the professionals, what did real people think about the debate,
paul Atkinson got some of that reaction. At Wells Fargo Arena on the A. S
. U. Campus where people gathered to watch the debate.
A crowd of several 1000 fills the lower level. At Wells Fargo Arena,
President Bush supporters sit next to Senator Kerry fans, their eyes glued
to a giant big screen. Unlike Spectators inside nearby Gammage Auditorium
, these debate watchers are free to cheer on their candidates. Heather
tweet Malone wears her faith in President Bush on her sleeve or in this
case on her arm. She grew up in a conservative Republican family so far,
all we've been hearing about is more this Iraq and it's nice to hear a
little bit more about domestic issues, about education
highly nap watches the debate with her mom. She supports john Kerry, I
think the bait is going very well so far. I just wish both of the
candidates would kind of go off on a limb and stop repeating the same
issues and bring up new issues that haven't been brought up in the last
two debates because this is their final chance to say how they stand on
all of the issues supporters of ralph Nader's sit and watch in silent
protest. Nader is not on the ballot in Arizona and wasn't invited to the
presidential debates is absurd for us to call this a presidential debates
since it's not really presidential, it's just the republicans and the
democrats. There's a bunch of other candidates that are eligible to be
involved in the debate, but they're not because the two party system is
keeping them out. I think it's a shame for Arizona. It's a shame for
America. It's a shame for democracy. While most in attendance favor a
particular candidate, steve lang is one of the few undecided voters
watching the debate here. I think we really need to sit back and really
decide I'm taking the time to weigh out each issue, See what works for me
, what will work for my family and trying to line it up with my
perspective and my view lang has concerns with how the president has
handled a few domestic issues. He's also wary of the massachusetts senator.
I think they both need to do a better job with relating to the people. I
think I think there's a tendency as we see with all of our politicians,
they are all well to do their, they don't associate with what the working
class, the middle class, so to speak. And there's a huge differentiation
and I think that's one of the issues that I have to think about in my
candidate, the political science student and Gulf War veteran says it will
take more than this debate to convince him who to vote for. But come
November two, he'll be prepared to cast his ballot. He just hopes others
plan to do the same.
It's been an incredible week for A S. U. And Nobel prize winner, a giant
football game coming up. And of course the presidential debate paul
Atkinson tells us about the benefits derived from the debate by not only a
S. U, but also Tempe
an assortment of the Valley's movers and shakers watch the debate inside
the old main building on the A. S. U. Campus, among them, longtime
television journalist and valley resident Hugh downs. It is a more
important election than any time in my memory and I go back to when
Wendell Willkie was Was running opposite Roosevelt for what was
Roosevelt's third term in 1940. This is a very very crucial debate. It's
very strong feelings on both sides and uh it's the outcome of it is going
to be extremely important. A su first approached the commission on
presidential debates about hosting 1 12 years ago. Little did anyone
realize then the significance it would hold now? Well, I think it's
tremendous for Arizona to be in the national spotlight as we are for the
debates. It especially having culminating debate. I don't know who is a
genius that thought of getting the last one usually that's the booby prize.
But in this case it is the most important debate in the history of this
election. The last thing I said to him from the debate attracted hundreds
of national and international reporters now live from Tempe Arizona site
of the final presidential debate, judy, Woodruff's inside politics, CNN
and MSNBC broadcast several shows live from the A. S. U. Campus largest
city and home to Arizona State University and it just created a buzz. I
mean everywhere is phoenix Tempe. The valley has become the center of of
the nation now and everybody's here and economically it's been a great
boom because people are starting to see phoenix in the valley again and as
a mayor, I'm just, you know, excited again that phoenix is once again sort
of the focus of the nation. The
media attention could not have come at a better time for a issue with an
economics professor awarded a nobel prize and its undefeated football team
taking on top ranked USC. I think what we're showing is that we're
competitive on many, many fronts, competitive academically competitive in
the national political scene and competitive on the athletic field. And
we're very excited about this has been a tremendous opportunity for our
students. Uh 15,000 students signed up for the lottery to win tickets to
get into the lottery are into the debate. 13,000 will be at Wells Fargo
Arena. It's unbelievable. A lot of excitement. We're very happy sponsors
paid some $2.5 million to help offset the costs of hosting the debate.
While the final tab is expected to be much higher. Many state leaders
think the benefits were worth it. Boy, it's a big coup for issue. It
really is 60 million people around the country knowing the issue and where
it is and what it stands for. It was just really good. So for Arizona in
general. Yeah, the debate here was just a good day for Arizona. Well, it's
been great for Arizona. I think it signals even more how we're moving
forward, moving ahead. The whole nation has been focused on our state the
last few days and on Tempe and on a issue. And I want to really
congratulate the people of Arizona state in Tempe for, for putting on what
I think has been a seminal incident in this campaign, a seminal event that
may make the difference in the end,
the presidential debate in Tempe has ended and the candidate's head out on
the campaign trail for the final 2.5 weeks of the race. How did the event
at a su go will the debate have an impact on the vote? Join us for the
journalist roundtable Friday at seven on Horizon And thanks for joining us
on Thursday. I'm Michael Grant. Have a Great one. Good night.
Yeah
if you have comments about Horizon please contact us at. The address is
listed on your screen. Your name and comments may be used on a future
edition of Horizon.
No. Yeah.
Horizon is made possible by the friends of Channel eight members who
provide financial support to this Arizona PBS station. Thank you.
No mm
Support for Channel eight programming is made possible in part by A. P. S.
Making sure our customers have the electricity they need to power the
things they value A. P. S. The power to make it happen
A. T. N. T. Introducing greater choices in local phone service with one
rate us a more information available at A. T. T. Dot com or at 802 88 40
to 55
V. Estancia an Arizona community featuring 45 models by seven builders.
Distancia is located north on Lake Pleasant Road west at Happy Valley
Road. Grand opening happening now
Arizona's 10 ballot propositions. You hear a lot about them but how much
do you actually know about them Wednesday? Don't Miss Channel 8's horizon
as we break down the ballot.
Yeah. On any given night in America songs, our son stories are told and
dreams come true. And it all begins with broadway, the American musical
on behalf of the thousands of people who depend on Arizona's PBS station
every day. Thank you. Thank you for your annual support. And thank you for
being a friend of Channel eight. Help support another year of great
Channel Eight programs and services join online right now. Or look for
this blue envelope and rush your check to the Friends of Channel Eight p.
O. Box 8 10, P. 85 to 81. Thank you.
support for Channel eight. Programming is made possible, in part by the
second.