WEBVTT 00:00:03.740 --> 00:00:05.740 the workshop Red trust and 00:00:08.429 --> 00:00:16.429 and Mr salary is the distinguished architect whose works you have studied 00:00:17.809 --> 00:00:22.357 in the archaeology ease again. I trust everyone who looked at those and 00:00:22.390 --> 00:00:30.390 that the exhibit over an alumni hall, Each of these in his own way is not 00:00:30.629 --> 00:00:37.487 merely concerned with the problem of providing a habitat for the human 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:45.417 being, but also making sure that that habitat contributes to human values 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:53.450 and the quality of human life. Um This is the intent, but in every case 00:00:54.359 --> 00:01:01.497 there are many grounds for controversy and questions and so it is our 00:01:01.530 --> 00:01:06.986 intent is simply to throw the meeting open to questions. Would you stand 00:01:07.019 --> 00:01:12.576 up and identify yourself if you have a question and make sure that your 00:01:12.609 --> 00:01:20.609 voice is heard down here so that we understand what the question is. 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:29.956 Now, I would like to begin by addressing the same question to MR salary 00:01:29.989 --> 00:01:36.286 that I did over as he spoke to the art and architecture students, I 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:43.227 understand that his archaeology, um his theories of our archaeology should 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:49.826 I should say is based on more than a theory of architecture, is based on a 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:56.977 philosophy of life. And I think this would be a good place to begin as he 00:01:57.010 --> 00:02:03.126 lets us know some of the leading ideas of that philosophy of life and how 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:11.159 it leads to the particular kind of habitat that he has envisaged for the 00:02:12.069 --> 00:02:14.807 human race. 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:22.840 That'll start us off. 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:30.156 Well, maybe I should start by saying that 00:02:30.189 --> 00:02:36.707 state something very very abstract if you like. Or very general. I think 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:44.740 that life he is that kind of process that makes matter into spirit. 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:52.867 And evidently it's a process that it might have been happening only on 00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:58.297 this planet. Probably is happening in many other localities in the 00:02:58.330 --> 00:03:00.707 universe. 00:03:00.740 --> 00:03:04.517 What we have to do is to stick with this planet and see if we can make 00:03:04.550 --> 00:03:12.550 sense of this process. And to me it makes sense only when each successive 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:15.286 step 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:23.319 somehow works as in tropically against entropy in transforming, but we 00:03:24.389 --> 00:03:31.506 might call the mass energy universe into consciousness the spirit. 00:03:31.539 --> 00:03:37.136 So anything that we might be able to find out that works in this direction 00:03:37.169 --> 00:03:42.207 for me is anti pollutant 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:47.626 is as in tropic, whatever works against this progression of matter, making 00:03:47.659 --> 00:03:54.166 itself into spirit is pollutant is entropic 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:59.807 and to make it very brief so we can get to the habitat. I would suggest 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:06.207 that this is what we call the city or the man made environment for society. 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:10.427 He is one of the most, can be one of the most powerful places where 00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:14.106 matter becomes spirit 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:22.139 to do this. Um, man has to feel not as a single isolated morning. It has 00:04:25.060 --> 00:04:31.106 to be feel integral and to be integral part of the whole process which 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:35.267 involves not just man for the animal kingdom, but the vegetable kingdom 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:40.106 and physical kingdom. 00:04:40.139 --> 00:04:46.707 And in order to for this process to proceed and develop, there seems to be 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:52.647 one mandatory demand which is that this process has to move always from 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:56.656 something of a certain degree of complexity to something which has a 00:04:56.689 --> 00:04:59.796 higher degree of complexity. 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:04.937 If this is true then it's almost it's automatically true because 00:05:04.970 --> 00:05:11.156 complexity is the other phase for what I'm going to say now it's true also 00:05:11.189 --> 00:05:19.067 that the evolution of life is directly tied connected dependent on the 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:25.837 miniaturization process. Because complexity means the the achieving of a 00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:32.017 certain intensity of performance within spaces which are becoming smaller 00:05:32.050 --> 00:05:38.616 and smaller because that's that's how information, communication, 00:05:38.649 --> 00:05:46.476 challenge and response are able to to perform and to develop. 00:05:46.509 --> 00:05:52.147 And that's why I am very persistent in advocating this methodology which 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:56.837 is not packaging something and saying this is really just build it and 00:05:56.870 --> 00:06:01.616 everything is going to be all right. But the methodology tells me that 00:06:01.649 --> 00:06:08.806 tells life I think in general that in order to move into the next step 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:16.839 of evolution or spiritual ization et realization, we must except a complex 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:24.906 the pull together gathered together Cityscape. 00:06:24.939 --> 00:06:29.236 This is not a a simple solution. It's not a solution. This is not a simple 00:06:29.269 --> 00:06:32.467 methodology. It doesn't say that things are going to get better because 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:36.507 they're going to get simpler. Said that things are going to get more alive 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:41.017 if they are really going to be too complex. If I themselves. You know what 00:06:41.050 --> 00:06:49.050 ? This is the convergence sea of scattered and lose elements into a 00:06:49.670 --> 00:06:53.846 unifying Colin 00:06:53.879 --> 00:07:01.879 Thank you. I think I'll offer our other guests Mr Vanek the opportunity to 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:11.540 comment first but and then throw it up into the rest. Mhm. Well if if I 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:18.467 understand Mr salary right? I agree with that. 00:07:18.500 --> 00:07:26.500 I understand that the city is the prime mover of civilization. 00:07:27.339 --> 00:07:34.077 It is the place where man really becomes man in in in 00:07:34.110 --> 00:07:37.606 the best sense in the 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:44.746 matter moves into spirit. Then that is why I want the city to survive not 00:07:44.779 --> 00:07:50.306 only to survive but to grow and to prosper to be not only a good place to 00:07:50.339 --> 00:07:56.767 live but also an inspiring and inspired place to live and in that sense 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:58.806 also 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:03.897 a work of art. I say also because it's got to be a whole lot of other 00:08:03.930 --> 00:08:07.986 and if I understand Mr salary right 00:08:08.019 --> 00:08:12.676 that we have to learn much better than we have in the last century, a 00:08:12.709 --> 00:08:17.967 century and a half of the oncoming of technology to live with and design 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:23.017 with nature rather than against nature rather than imposing our will on 00:08:23.050 --> 00:08:28.007 nature. He expressed it somewhat differently. Man doesn't have the right 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:35.307 to pollute this planet. And I also and this to me is the first challenge 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:42.276 where I differ and I differ I think quite profoundly is 00:08:42.309 --> 00:08:46.907 in 00:08:46.940 --> 00:08:54.106 the the the tremendous need for human continuity. 00:08:54.139 --> 00:08:57.917 I was very happy to spend in the greek islands this past summer on on a 00:08:57.950 --> 00:09:04.136 trip. And I've seen that everything we want has a far better way than we 00:09:04.169 --> 00:09:12.169 are able to been designed and been built into these temple cities 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:20.407 on various and I think that it if we talk about designing with nature and 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:26.616 building our habitat in harmony with nature, we must also 00:09:26.649 --> 00:09:32.506 and again, also not exclusive, consider the nature of man. And to me the 00:09:32.539 --> 00:09:37.866 nature of man has a tremendous yearning. First of all, let me say that 00:09:37.899 --> 00:09:41.207 technocrats always say, well everything changes. Therefore the city has to 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.516 change and therefore we have to accommodate for all this change. Well, man 00:09:45.549 --> 00:09:49.667 has not changed. Man's basic needs have not changed. We still make love 00:09:49.700 --> 00:09:54.807 the same way, we still need sunshine, we still need air, we need water. 00:09:54.840 --> 00:10:00.136 And in thinking about the city and the future of the city, we have to 00:10:00.169 --> 00:10:03.657 think I think very, very strongly and much more than we have in the past 00:10:03.690 --> 00:10:08.776 about this yearning for and then it's necessity for continuity. We cannot 00:10:08.809 --> 00:10:12.577 just pick up and leave and build a super city somewhere hundreds of miles 00:10:12.610 --> 00:10:15.927 out of nowhere. Whatever the rationalization we have to pick up from where 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:22.016 we are and carry that forward and build had design and live within the 00:10:22.049 --> 00:10:29.207 framework of our of our civilization and carry that forward and it's the 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.407 abrupt 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.577 change here, everything is different. And now we start from scratch and 00:10:34.610 --> 00:10:40.346 you disregard several 1000 years of human human civilization and we play 00:10:40.379 --> 00:10:46.837 God and built the great city. This to me is chutzpah, it's full press and 00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:54.766 it's it's valuable as utopias are always valuable in elevating thinking 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.756 that it's a disservice to the extent that it might distract us from the 00:10:58.789 --> 00:11:04.187 task on hand. And that is to pick up the continuity of our place to live, 00:11:04.220 --> 00:11:09.187 of our architecture, of our urban design of our lives. Pick it up again 00:11:09.220 --> 00:11:13.787 and subordinate technology to the basic human needs which are humanistic 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:20.246 needs. Right? We have a question already here, did you identify yourself? 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:25.876 My name is Kali and I just want to point out or ask you that you see man 00:11:25.909 --> 00:11:29.756 hasn't basically changed in all that time. But the one thing that has 00:11:29.789 --> 00:11:34.067 changed mankind is the fact that we have a tremendously increased amount 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:38.276 of information and knowledge. Don't you think that that changes man and 00:11:38.309 --> 00:11:44.496 what he has to do in direction in himself in the future? No, it's confused 00:11:44.529 --> 00:11:49.106 man a great deal basically I think that the the were beginning to discover 00:11:49.139 --> 00:11:51.726 now for instance, I mean this is part of the knowledge of course that 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:56.087 there is no such thing as pro primitive man. There is no advance. I mean 00:11:56.120 --> 00:12:00.116 progress in the sense of of of making men any smarter or bringing up his 00:12:00.149 --> 00:12:02.967 Children any better at solving his problems any better that we keep on the 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.766 same level. But the guru tribes in in in wherever the hell they are in 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:11.307 Australia or wherever 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:15.116 you know, as much about the art of living as we do except ours are more 00:12:15.149 --> 00:12:19.136 complicated and we need more milltown. Um and we can't sleep at night and 00:12:19.169 --> 00:12:24.376 we have more violence, you see, so that actually all this new information 00:12:24.409 --> 00:12:29.136 and I use the term ironically now unquote input has not really improved. 00:12:29.169 --> 00:12:32.927 Man certainly hasn't improved and I don't think has really basically 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.207 changed. 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:40.606 Yes, another comment. Peter Waldo, 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.717 I don't know. I have a feeling that you're so much contradicting yourself 00:12:43.750 --> 00:12:51.750 now, you're saying that we should um face, have continuity and base what 00:12:52.179 --> 00:12:57.596 we do and what we already know. And this is what I see mr salary doing and 00:12:57.629 --> 00:13:03.096 that he's saying, we've designed the same way for thousands of years. Um 00:13:03.129 --> 00:13:07.287 let's take into account man's total needs and design the whole environment 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:14.717 , not just a building to live in. And you criticize this on the grounds 00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:19.707 that this is something totally new and too far out and we're not ready for 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:24.967 it. And we have to go step by step. I just I just don't see that the 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:31.986 criticisms founded or the reason for that sort of criticism. 00:13:32.019 --> 00:13:37.657 Well, I think inevitably we are going step by step and we are not um I 00:13:37.690 --> 00:13:43.707 mean this is a prediction. Now, this is not going to be able to build a 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:49.346 totally new environment because all the elements of change, all the 00:13:49.379 --> 00:13:53.646 elements of our way of looking at things are not going to be the same way 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:57.496 that your Children are going to look. That is also part of human nature, 00:13:57.529 --> 00:14:01.307 that each generation has a different idea on how they want to live in some. 00:14:01.340 --> 00:14:06.677 However, there are some basic things that have been found pretty good. 00:14:06.710 --> 00:14:10.366 The institution of the family, friends and by the same token, the 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:15.467 institution of streets and houses as the streets of social space and 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:18.886 houses as as your own. You know, this whole business of privacy and 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:23.736 community and a whole lot of things that we know work quite well and why 00:14:23.769 --> 00:14:31.287 disregard them or discard and where we do describe them as in bauhaus type 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.307 housing projects, for instance, where we've destroyed the street. We have 00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:38.047 also destroyed social intercourse. To the point where you have a large 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:42.126 increase of violence and unhappiness and where we have to go and blow up 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:47.417 through Pruitt Igoe exploded. Didn't work because we have disregarded 00:14:47.450 --> 00:14:50.896 certain basic lessons that we've learned over several thousands of years. 00:14:50.929 --> 00:14:54.207 I can say the total opposite. I can see if we got rid of all the streets. 00:14:54.240 --> 00:15:00.407 We wouldn't have any violence is people that makes discussions. 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.516 I don't think the streets have been working so good. 00:15:04.549 --> 00:15:10.506 They've been working pretty well before the automobile came along. 00:15:10.539 --> 00:15:16.657 Yes. Um, in talking about human beings haven't changed. There's some 00:15:16.690 --> 00:15:22.827 things that have changed one thing we live longer and we have better 00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:30.860 medicine and with the population growth. Um, it seems that just kind of 00:15:32.500 --> 00:15:36.016 doing what we've been doing, but maybe improving it doesn't solve our 00:15:36.049 --> 00:15:42.297 problems. Now, I'll get to my point, you seem very strongly in favor 00:15:42.330 --> 00:15:47.537 satellite cities like Tapiola. Since you conclude your book with the 00:15:47.570 --> 00:15:53.616 discussion of Tapiola or perhaps Columbia Maryland. But isn't that simply 00:15:53.649 --> 00:15:57.657 kind of continuing what we're doing? Won't these satellites simply grow 00:15:57.690 --> 00:16:02.256 and fill in the spaces between the big cities and the surrounding 00:16:02.289 --> 00:16:06.226 satellites? And if that happens, how are we solving anything with Tapiola 00:16:06.259 --> 00:16:11.907 or or some other comparable Newtown? 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:19.940 Well now you're confusing. I think two things. 11 is is is building new 00:16:20.509 --> 00:16:26.327 towns or or that we put it in a broader way organizing our urbanized 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:33.766 region. Um, is that continuity? Yes it is takes into account the fact that 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.636 people want to be with the action. People have been flocking to the 00:16:37.669 --> 00:16:41.697 seashores like crabs and that's where they want to be. Is it organize a 00:16:41.730 --> 00:16:47.337 bill yet? Do we begin to see that we should be smart and smart this 00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:52.957 abusive when the hives get too big start building new heights. Yes. Will 00:16:52.990 --> 00:16:57.287 the space between those hives then fill in and become one terrible 00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:02.657 urbanized mess. It doesn't have to, we can apply order. We can apply green 00:17:02.690 --> 00:17:06.607 bills we can organize 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.937 and that's I think what I'm saying I'm saying we have to take human nature 00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:17.097 into account. Oh and human nature. I think part of human nature shown 00:17:17.130 --> 00:17:20.407 wants to be together and want to be in certain areas of the, of the, of 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.367 the world geography and not in others and they want to be where existing 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:29.607 institutions are, but we have to learn how to organize this and keeps them 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:35.177 open, not have these what the british called conservation? The british can 00:17:35.210 --> 00:17:38.786 do it. Why can't we? But one thing it seems we have to organize a 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:43.607 population growth then. Damn right. We do. And we're beginning to we're 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:47.806 coming very closely all these dire predictions of the population explosion. 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.006 The Bureau of Census tells us now we're all very much an error. You don't 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:59.039 draw the line straight up. Mr salary hasn't been part of this discussion, 00:17:59.299 --> 00:18:05.107 but I sensed some reactions. I wonder if he could put them in words. Mhm. 00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:11.377 I'm thinking of what I call the syndrome Adams and Eve syndrome. And I 00:18:11.410 --> 00:18:17.157 think it's very represented by Mr Eckert 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.707 by this. I mean that um 00:18:21.740 --> 00:18:29.177 he has a view of history that I cannot accept and I cannot I cannot accept 00:18:29.210 --> 00:18:34.207 it. And that means that we cannot we cannot really 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:39.076 communicate because I cannot accept. The premise is that man has been 00:18:39.109 --> 00:18:46.367 printed by certain metrics and that's it. I mean, this is this is a 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:53.177 fantasy of major dimension and I cannot accept it. Because 00:18:53.210 --> 00:19:00.506 do we start to chicken man? Do we stop to the simian? Do we stop to the 00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:05.226 anthropoid? We stopped the apes we stopped to the lizard. Where do we stop 00:19:05.259 --> 00:19:11.766 in understanding what man is and what this matrix is? We've been printed 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:17.667 as as the virus has been printed at the beginning, do we evolve or we do 00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:21.957 not revolve evidently if we do evolve, what MR records said, it doesn't 00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:25.776 make very much sense. The only sense it makes is that historically we have 00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:29.476 a certain certain kind of timetable that tells us that we cannot 00:19:29.509 --> 00:19:34.836 accelerate. Be honest with the limit, But evidently to stay that 50 00:19:34.869 --> 00:19:40.407 generations from now, man is going to be exactly what it is now. 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:46.746 I cannot it's inconceivable for me Because 50 generations ago, 500 00:19:46.779 --> 00:19:51.306 generations ago, man wasn't what it is now. 00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:58.917 So I can agree on the fact that we cannot drastically transform ourselves 00:19:58.950 --> 00:20:03.746 and environment. So we know now that something drastic has to be done 00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:06.897 because of the limited, limited 00:20:06.930 --> 00:20:12.937 envelope that we are living on limited resources. But if we need a guy, 00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:16.526 some kind of guidance and I think we needed this guidance has to be able 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:21.607 to point as to have a have a prospective that must go beyond the concept 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:26.427 that man has been created by God With 33 vertebra etc, etc. And it's not 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:30.617 going to change ever. Man has been changed because man at the beginning 00:20:30.650 --> 00:20:38.650 was a was a dim consciousness wiggling in the water of the primeval seas. 00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:42.066 No, there's quite a difference between that creature and ourselves and 00:20:42.099 --> 00:20:44.917 it's the same kind of difference is going to be probably between ourselves 00:20:44.950 --> 00:20:50.516 and the creatures that are going to come in the future. Um So I think 00:20:50.549 --> 00:20:55.306 that's where the stumbling block is, 00:20:55.339 --> 00:21:01.576 comment on that. All right. No question if I might mr Solar, you can 00:21:01.609 --> 00:21:08.107 before distinction between matter and spirit, I'm a little troubled by the 00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:13.986 terms spirit, I'm not sure I know what it means, perhaps. I don't know 00:21:14.019 --> 00:21:18.107 what that means either, 00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:22.756 would you? Perhaps? Well, if you're a physicist, Professor Eckert, who is 00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:27.316 a professor of religion, so I warn you before you was saying if you have a 00:21:27.349 --> 00:21:33.806 business, you can tell me that, that's honest. 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.407 Okay, I'll give it to you straight. 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.506 Um 00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:42.207 But if you're a professor of religion, let me tell you what I've been 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.806 thinking in the last few days, 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.276 I think. 00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:51.306 Well, 00:21:51.339 --> 00:21:57.617 well, that's that's the point. Yeah. Uh let's say God is not in the past, 00:21:57.650 --> 00:22:00.986 God is in the future. 00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:06.506 We are creating God. We are guarding the making. Which is very 00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:10.296 presumptuous. Mr Echols said something about that, we have to presumption 00:22:10.329 --> 00:22:13.766 or I made two Presumptions, you know, we think that we can transform the 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:17.316 universe. I think we can transform the universe because we are seeking to 00:22:17.349 --> 00:22:24.776 become God, which doesn't exist. So, the spirit is synonymous 00:22:24.809 --> 00:22:32.809 in a way, Spirit is this kind of of a known 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:40.207 mhm subtle phenomenon. Sometimes we call it consciousness 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.506 the ability to 00:22:43.539 --> 00:22:50.907 reflect a certain input and come out with a certain answer which is 00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:57.367 rational or can be somehow rationalized relatively. And but this this 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:03.197 trust again has began very dimly in a very small way, very primitively and 00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:07.556 it's developing within us within us as life and it's going and it's 00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.637 seeking something in the future that somehow we have to believe is in the 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:16.707 past. So we are supported by the backing of God. 00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:22.097 So the spirit would be the transformation of the and topic universe or the 00:23:22.130 --> 00:23:27.036 universal mass energy into into something which has a consciousness of 00:23:27.069 --> 00:23:32.536 itself, at least in the creation of God. 00:23:32.569 --> 00:23:40.306 The motivation for building these cities would be two 00:23:40.339 --> 00:23:44.117 move towards spirit, move matter towards spirit as opposed to just 00:23:44.150 --> 00:23:49.887 immediate happiness of man. Well, the immediate happiness of man is part 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:55.597 of the movie into the spirit because again, I can take the happiness over 00:23:55.630 --> 00:23:58.907 over butterflies 00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:03.967 and try to compare it to for the happiness and the happiness of a person. 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.177 And I would conclude maybe that the happiness of the person is more 00:24:08.210 --> 00:24:13.796 substantial has more power to it. There's more ability to proceed in this 00:24:13.829 --> 00:24:21.066 evolution and the happiness of the So but this happiness has to be based 00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:26.476 on worthiness. In other words, the joy that anyone of us can get out of 00:24:26.509 --> 00:24:32.187 whatever we do. He is conditioned by the work of this action that we are 00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:38.306 performing. So joy in a way is a byproduct for work. 00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:42.286 So in that sense, happiness is very important. 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:46.597 Joyful. I mean, the joyful ritual ritual of life, it's absolutely 00:24:46.630 --> 00:24:49.467 essential 00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:53.897 if you're talking about him and spiritually? Yes, most of your work seems 00:24:53.930 --> 00:24:59.046 to be attributed towards complexes such as do you think by creating such 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:04.107 an artificial environment? Well, spiritually 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:08.657 please a man, not so much spiritually, physically, as much as psychologic. 00:25:08.690 --> 00:25:13.187 In other words, to create an environment such as this room and create 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:18.917 grass, trees, land, will this please the man as much as to live as we do 00:25:18.950 --> 00:25:23.427 on the real earth psychologically, it just doesn't please a person to live 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:28.417 in artificial environment. Yeah, but you see that again, I think I think 00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:32.897 there is a short sightedness there that I can't really grasp. Suppose 00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:40.930 again that I am I am an animal and I for some reason God appears to me in 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:47.847 form of, let's suppose I am Eliza and God appears to me in the form of a 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:52.796 monkey of a warm blooded creature, well as the leaves that I'm going to 00:25:52.829 --> 00:25:57.187 say, this is a monster and I don't want to have anything to do with it. I 00:25:57.220 --> 00:26:02.816 am the perfected perfect creature existing in the universe. This fantasy 00:26:02.849 --> 00:26:08.036 or this thing that I see there, the warm blooded creature is, his 00:26:08.069 --> 00:26:13.516 monstrous is not natural. It's unconceivable. I cannot accept it. It's 00:26:13.549 --> 00:26:17.207 it's something that I have to destroy. 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.736 And I don't think, I don't think that you can say that just because 00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:26.417 something hasn't existed, something cannot come about. And I mind you that 00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:31.917 I'm not, I'm not presented presented as anything like a blueprint for a 00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:37.496 city, I am presenting excellent as an example, my personal exemplify 00:26:37.529 --> 00:26:42.496 vacation in very schematic terms, in very abstract terms of a certain 00:26:42.529 --> 00:26:46.996 methodology. So if you're reading into it, but I didn't put into it, then 00:26:47.029 --> 00:26:51.296 evidently we cannot discuss it. What what you should try to read into it 00:26:51.329 --> 00:26:58.907 is that this visual thing suggests a certain kind of technological 00:26:58.940 --> 00:27:05.187 development plus extra, possibly the beauty, the aesthetic aspect that Mr 00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:10.697 Speaker was talking about that will allow myself and the group that 00:27:10.730 --> 00:27:17.776 composes society to perform certain things better more efficiently with 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:23.187 more joy and so on. It might be mistaken as such because it and it's 00:27:23.220 --> 00:27:27.137 evidently it's there because it does not apply to a contextual problem. 00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:30.937 It's just an abstraction to illustrate an idea. 00:27:30.970 --> 00:27:37.107 Question up here. one thing that's still bothering me about why did you 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:42.836 have by centralization, you're going to the way I look at it, you're only 00:27:42.869 --> 00:27:47.536 going to decrease the rate at which we're destroying correct. Which is 00:27:47.569 --> 00:27:52.107 which is not a bad point 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:58.836 that we're doing it right now, increasing it by uh anything except a very 00:27:58.869 --> 00:28:03.357 large amount. Well, that that would be a large amount of it will be a 00:28:03.390 --> 00:28:08.907 substantial amount. So much so that I consider it again as a methodology, 00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:13.897 not as my clever solution that says everything is settled now just use it 00:28:13.930 --> 00:28:18.336 and you'll get the results as a methodology. I think it's that's where the 00:28:18.369 --> 00:28:23.006 answer is because my allowed us to make the quantum jump that we need to 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.006 in order not to stifle or 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:33.917 take validity out of life through the ecological crisis, but by moving at 00:28:33.950 --> 00:28:41.046 one level where the needs of a lively civilized cultural society can be 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:48.306 satisfied, but with much less energy matter, 00:28:48.339 --> 00:28:55.536 space and so on. So it's really it would really be the motion from a 00:28:55.569 --> 00:29:00.407 certain level of materialization to a greater level with the realization 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:05.887 which means making more matter, making making more spirit out of matter. 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:10.526 And I think really the solution of the problem we are in now the fact that 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:17.387 we are too many and we are demanding too much from a limited amount of of 00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:23.707 space energy and raw materials is this quantum jump not the steady state 00:29:23.740 --> 00:29:28.006 theory, but the quantum theory 00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:33.556 question. Yes. Um you said that we were heading towards a godlike 00:29:33.589 --> 00:29:37.066 existence. That's what you're saying that in the future that we're 00:29:37.099 --> 00:29:41.776 directing now towards, towards God in the future now, only in the sense 00:29:41.809 --> 00:29:49.809 that life, as far as I can see, is a development towards the production of 00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:55.117 what, for lack of better words we call godliness, does that mean that 00:29:55.150 --> 00:29:59.647 mankind will achieve in the future of perfect form or that we're going to 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:06.957 be heading towards a perfect form? Well, if if you take that the 00:30:06.990 --> 00:30:11.306 methodology of complexity miniaturization to the extreme. You see that 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:18.857 this form will be a point, the gut point, all powerful, all 00:30:18.890 --> 00:30:22.506 millicent. And I will tell you 00:30:22.539 --> 00:30:27.726 how can we at this point in our existence determined how to direct 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:32.776 ourselves in that way. What what do you use in determining your cities and 00:30:32.809 --> 00:30:37.707 your direction in what did you 00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:42.536 evidently? I I can only try to see the mechanisms, not the results. You 00:30:42.569 --> 00:30:46.617 know, words again, going back to the piano, I cannot make the music. I 00:30:46.650 --> 00:30:49.377 mean hopefully I can make some music. But what I'm really trying to do is 00:30:49.410 --> 00:30:53.266 to make the instance. So what I'm looking for is a certain kind of 00:30:53.299 --> 00:31:00.226 persistent method that seems to be applying to the evolution of the 00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:06.347 consciousness of life And see and see why why not this methodology is not 00:31:06.380 --> 00:31:11.907 the good one. And this methodology is that life is an implosive process 00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:15.256 and it's an explosive process. So anything that has to do with life has to 00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:19.147 do with gathering of things with connecting of things with integrating of 00:31:19.180 --> 00:31:25.177 things with unifying of things not the opposite. So that's the methodology 00:31:25.210 --> 00:31:30.907 context ification which necessarily demands 00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:36.207 putting together, which means which I call it the miniaturization. 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.467 Do you feel that the only way we can involve towards this state is through 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.357 , you know, this collect this, this very dense collectivity. Do you feel 00:31:44.390 --> 00:31:47.506 that there's other alternatives? 00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:52.786 Mhm smaller collectivity is or even in isolation? Well, I would never 00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:59.086 advocate gigantic collectivity. What I I think at this point we should try 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:06.927 to stay within From 50,000 to I don't know Below one million because we 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:14.707 are still pretty young and pretty and experienced. So another locating big 00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:17.150 metro police.