WEBVTT

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And then you get a brain which might be very brilliant, full of

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information. A full library, but
probably very savage kind of brain. The

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kind of brain is very able to push,
push, push the button or drop the bomb

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or

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build a beautiful machinery for
destruction because it's a brain that has

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not very much relationship with life.
It's just a computerized kind of.

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So I I really think that the more we
are we are able and skilled in

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learning, the more the greater becomes
our horizon. As far as learning and

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information, the more we must plug
ourselves within the man. And at this

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point, I have to say that the natural
environment today is evidently not

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the natural environmental yesterday.
So I maintain that the methodology

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that I'm advocating is the organic and
natural methodology

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stated a minute ago that the services
and jobs will be reduced, a lot of

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people would be set free by this right
to occupy their time by what I mean.

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There'll be more you say in your book,
there will be increased leisure

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time. But I wish you would expand a
little bit on the directions of this

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region. Well, evidently I can't
because first of all, I am too ignorant.

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 Yeah. Second,

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in a way, as I see leisure to make
leisure meaningful means to make men

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creative, which means I am going to
work because I'm creating something

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not because I have to survive because
I am coerced by somebody else. But

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one thing would be that if we can
define environments

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toward which we can feel the evidence,
then the maintenance and the

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development and the changing of this
reverential kind of situation would

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be would be a good parliament. So I
partake in the life of the city

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because I identify with it. I work
after it. I built it, I rebuild it and

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I maintain it and I take care of it.
Not out of coercion, not out of

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private ownership in forces, out of
reverence.

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How many years do you think it would
be before concept like that can be

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accepted

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what was accepted centuries. It's just
that we I think we have to somehow

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really we organize our priorities go
about for instance, possession as

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knowledge instead of being hardware
possession. I only own what I know and

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what else? I do not whatever. I do not
know it really it doesn't belong to

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me, belongs to it's not interior.
Rised but it doesn't really belong to me.

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 It's part of the exterior.

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Is that what you mean? When you talk
about getting back to the basic ideas

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when you were talking about this, the
Greeks had all the answers and the

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fact that they were doing things in a
more creative manner. He's saying

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that we should go towards creativity.
Whereas now we're diverting from it

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and you say we should go back is that
the same idea? Certainly I think

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efforts should be directed. And I've
said that many times that we don't

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want to build the city beautiful
necessarily because that's not the only

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criterion. Not the efficient city, but
the creative city by which I mean,

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I think exactly what parliament

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that our efforts towards the band mate
environment. It should be such to

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give everyone emphasis very much on
everyone, on social, environmental,

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social accessibility to the goodness
of life and to a creative life. And

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the definition of what is a creative
life I think will will will will vary

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from person to person. Some people, I
want to go to museums and other

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people want to do absolutely nothing
and some people want to play with

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their Children etcetera etcetera. But
everyone ought to have as much ah

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opportunity time and this little
interference with with fulfilling his his

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potentials as a creative human being.
That's what I'm going to have to I

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exercise my right to call. We've gone
past our time and we are working on

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the schedule. I'm sure that you're
interest has been intrigued. But you

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and all the people you're going to
pass the word to are gonna come out

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tonight to hear this discussion. Thank
you very, very much for your

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thank you. Mm hmm.

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If you want to pull in a little bit
more

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you can do whatever you want to do.

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Yeah.

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Mm hmm. Anything that decision.

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No, no.

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Okay, fine. Thank you very much.

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I know I got this letter from from
from, from somebody in your office. Yes

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,

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I'm sorry that I'm so uncooperative.

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But I just don't really work this way?
This is this is this is this is

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what I got

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all their old cultures growth.

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Okay, there's no room for that

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discussion

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and you really are obligated to do so.

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Well I am

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his psychology

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but it's not influenced understanding
approached by the mythology. The

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methodology of the mythology has to be
kept the same thing. Uh huh. Well,

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presuppositions behind one's
methodology. I agree with that. But still

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these two people, for all the
difference in in mythology could

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nevertheless agree for example, that
everybody should be allowed to walk

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to work. Oh yeah, okay, the specifics
is that that arise out of different

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mythologies might be the same in some
cases, but the real, the real

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distinctions between methodologies
that at all, but between mythologies.

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So it becomes mythologies that are
important. Oh yeah. Oh, you're right.

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There's a continuum between two.
That's that's certainly true. But

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somehow I like Hillary style. I don't
know man, it may be though, because

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I was brought up in an italian
neighborhood.

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I'm not 10, but I was brought up in an
italian neighborhood and somehow I

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relate to Italians much more than I do
to Germans, even though I'm I'm

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german you say so I don't know that
that's what I was gonna ask cause

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there's an interesting psychological
question right there when you're

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talking to somebody who's the same
name as you are? Right, do you want to

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disassociate myself from doing your
identity Of course. Does. Did you, did

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you pick up the, the connotations of
catholic culture out of Solarium? It

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seems to me that he is operating out
of a catholic in certain places.

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Things like saying that the work is
perfect freedom almost, where he says

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work is perfect joy or something like
that. But essentially,

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yes,

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his sympathy with the shutdown.
Remember when I wasn't asked about what,

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who would be the influential people at
night? Mythological level, when he

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immediately mentioned the showdown,

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Of course, it's something of a
heretic, but also is catholic catholic in

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the broader sense,

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Jordan didn't come across to me as a
complete catholic. Not, in fact, in

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the bit that you quoted, I can't
remember, but the bit that he did mention

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about it seemed to be a little outside
of the catholic church, actually,

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the notion this relativistic evolution
is um is something that's not basic

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in catholic theology. In fact, it's
supposed in catholic theology now,

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what's what's mattered to one in
spirit, to the other this way of building

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up that you get in Whitehead and and
to shut down, this is certainly not

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the catholic position. The catholic
position is much more like a card,

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oddly enough at that point, because
you have a separation, you have nature

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?

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Yeah, and that's a stable entity and
then you have man and that's an

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entity in and of itself and then they
never meet?

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Well, there yougo