And then you get a brain which might be very brilliant, full of
information. A full library, but probably very savage kind of brain. The
kind of brain is very able to push, push, push the button or drop the bomb
or
build a beautiful machinery for destruction because it's a brain that has
not very much relationship with life. It's just a computerized kind of.
So I I really think that the more we are we are able and skilled in
learning, the more the greater becomes our horizon. As far as learning and
information, the more we must plug ourselves within the man. And at this
point, I have to say that the natural environment today is evidently not
the natural environmental yesterday. So I maintain that the methodology
that I'm advocating is the organic and natural methodology
stated a minute ago that the services and jobs will be reduced, a lot of
people would be set free by this right to occupy their time by what I mean.
There'll be more you say in your book, there will be increased leisure
time. But I wish you would expand a little bit on the directions of this
region. Well, evidently I can't because first of all, I am too ignorant.
Yeah. Second,
in a way, as I see leisure to make leisure meaningful means to make men
creative, which means I am going to work because I'm creating something
not because I have to survive because I am coerced by somebody else. But
one thing would be that if we can define environments
toward which we can feel the evidence, then the maintenance and the
development and the changing of this reverential kind of situation would
be would be a good parliament. So I partake in the life of the city
because I identify with it. I work after it. I built it, I rebuild it and
I maintain it and I take care of it. Not out of coercion, not out of
private ownership in forces, out of reverence.
How many years do you think it would be before concept like that can be
accepted
what was accepted centuries. It's just that we I think we have to somehow
really we organize our priorities go about for instance, possession as
knowledge instead of being hardware possession. I only own what I know and
what else? I do not whatever. I do not know it really it doesn't belong to
me, belongs to it's not interior. Rised but it doesn't really belong to me.
It's part of the exterior.
Is that what you mean? When you talk about getting back to the basic ideas
when you were talking about this, the Greeks had all the answers and the
fact that they were doing things in a more creative manner. He's saying
that we should go towards creativity. Whereas now we're diverting from it
and you say we should go back is that the same idea? Certainly I think
efforts should be directed. And I've said that many times that we don't
want to build the city beautiful necessarily because that's not the only
criterion. Not the efficient city, but the creative city by which I mean,
I think exactly what parliament
that our efforts towards the band mate environment. It should be such to
give everyone emphasis very much on everyone, on social, environmental,
social accessibility to the goodness of life and to a creative life. And
the definition of what is a creative life I think will will will will vary
from person to person. Some people, I want to go to museums and other
people want to do absolutely nothing and some people want to play with
their Children etcetera etcetera. But everyone ought to have as much ah
opportunity time and this little interference with with fulfilling his his
potentials as a creative human being. That's what I'm going to have to I
exercise my right to call. We've gone past our time and we are working on
the schedule. I'm sure that you're interest has been intrigued. But you
and all the people you're going to pass the word to are gonna come out
tonight to hear this discussion. Thank you very, very much for your
thank you. Mm hmm.
If you want to pull in a little bit more
you can do whatever you want to do.
Yeah.
Mm hmm. Anything that decision.
No, no.
Okay, fine. Thank you very much.
I know I got this letter from from from, from somebody in your office. Yes
,
I'm sorry that I'm so uncooperative.
But I just don't really work this way? This is this is this is this is
what I got
all their old cultures growth.
Okay, there's no room for that
discussion
and you really are obligated to do so.
Well I am
his psychology
but it's not influenced understanding approached by the mythology. The
methodology of the mythology has to be kept the same thing. Uh huh. Well,
presuppositions behind one's methodology. I agree with that. But still
these two people, for all the difference in in mythology could
nevertheless agree for example, that everybody should be allowed to walk
to work. Oh yeah, okay, the specifics is that that arise out of different
mythologies might be the same in some cases, but the real, the real
distinctions between methodologies that at all, but between mythologies.
So it becomes mythologies that are important. Oh yeah. Oh, you're right.
There's a continuum between two. That's that's certainly true. But
somehow I like Hillary style. I don't know man, it may be though, because
I was brought up in an italian neighborhood.
I'm not 10, but I was brought up in an italian neighborhood and somehow I
relate to Italians much more than I do to Germans, even though I'm I'm
german you say so I don't know that that's what I was gonna ask cause
there's an interesting psychological question right there when you're
talking to somebody who's the same name as you are? Right, do you want to
disassociate myself from doing your identity Of course. Does. Did you, did
you pick up the, the connotations of catholic culture out of Solarium? It
seems to me that he is operating out of a catholic in certain places.
Things like saying that the work is perfect freedom almost, where he says
work is perfect joy or something like that. But essentially,
yes,
his sympathy with the shutdown. Remember when I wasn't asked about what,
who would be the influential people at night? Mythological level, when he
immediately mentioned the showdown,
Of course, it's something of a heretic, but also is catholic catholic in
the broader sense,
Jordan didn't come across to me as a complete catholic. Not, in fact, in
the bit that you quoted, I can't remember, but the bit that he did mention
about it seemed to be a little outside of the catholic church, actually,
the notion this relativistic evolution is um is something that's not basic
in catholic theology. In fact, it's supposed in catholic theology now,
what's what's mattered to one in spirit, to the other this way of building
up that you get in Whitehead and and to shut down, this is certainly not
the catholic position. The catholic position is much more like a card,
oddly enough at that point, because you have a separation, you have nature
?
Yeah, and that's a stable entity and then you have man and that's an
entity in and of itself and then they never meet?
Well, there yougo