SPEAKER 1: He was going to do--
well, he's the one who put that magazine out.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: I don't know whether he carried on, or [INAUDIBLE]..
SPEAKER 2: But anyway, as I say, there
are a lot of people who are interested in trains
and trolley cars, and there's about--
oh, I think that last time I saw ticket [INAUDIBLE]
about 275,000 people who are actually
real, real enthusiastic one sort or another.
And books on these various subjects do sell.
And, um, I'm not--
you know, so it would at least, I think,
be a break-even proposition.
And I think it would be kind of a nice historical thing.
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE] All my memories and--
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.
Well, somebody ought to know what's going on.
SPEAKER 1: That's right.
What has passed.
Yes, sir.
Just like old Carl Hayden, who passed away.
Well, everybody remembers him.
SPEAKER 2: These-- these are really something,
I'll tell you.
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
That's really something.
SPEAKER 3: There's a lot of them.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
[INAUDIBLE] tell me if you--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
SPEAKER 2: All right.
I'll do that.
And I just thank you much.
I just can't tell you.
SPEAKER 3: What about the token?
Did you ask about that?
SPEAKER 1: No, [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Oh, that's really something.
SPEAKER 3: I got some them tokens
we used to use for [INAUDIBLE] What do you call them things?
SPEAKER 2: But you must-- you must take care of that.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 3: [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Well, you know, that's not such a bad idea.
I saw--
SPEAKER 1: Well, if I'd known what
it did when I was on the cars, I'd have saved a lot more.
SPEAKER 2: I was down-- when I was in New Orleans,
I was in a store, and they were selling silver certificates.
You know, like with the old dollar bill?
For $1.75.
SPEAKER 3: He's got a trade dollar in there.
SPEAKER 1: You wanted to take these--
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
These are the ones I wanted to reproduce.
Now, let's see.
Let's see if I can figure out what this might be.
Well, that was-- couldn't tell where that is,
but that's you and [INAUDIBLE],, is what that is.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
I think that's on the rail line, I believe.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: OK.
And this is the day that we finished.
And that, of course, is out at the end of the Indian school
line.
SPEAKER 3: It's on the back, there, someplace.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
"Terminal at Indian school and third.
The automobile was about 1926."
SPEAKER 3: That other guy put that on there.
SPEAKER 2: Right.
What did you call that car?
What kind of model, or class, or--
SPEAKER 1: Well, that looks like one of the four uses we had.
SPEAKER 2: You don't have any pictures of the ones who
went to Glendale, do you?
I didn't see any.
SPEAKER 1: No.
No, there wasn't none of them.
I have none of them.
I don't know why.
SPEAKER 2: That's on the brill.
It says brill on it, so that's--
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: OK.
And this is the old gentleman who broke in.
SPEAKER 1: That's right.
SPEAKER 2: You know, you remember
when they went from this kind of a hat to the other kind?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
SPEAKER 2: But when they did that, Mr. Smith gave me his.
Because he lived down on, uh--
where was it?
SPEAKER 1: Was it Joe Smith?
SPEAKER 2: Well, whether it was Joe Smith, or not,
I don't know.
But whichever Smith it was, he worked for the trolley car
system, and he lived on Jefferson, about another half
a block or so from my house.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
He lived right across from [INAUDIBLE]..
SPEAKER 2: Yeah, right.
Right.
SPEAKER 1: That was Joe Smith.
SPEAKER 2: So that was Joe Smith.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
SPEAKER 2: Well, when they--
SPEAKER 3: That's what he was talking about,
you talked to him.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
Well, when they switched hats on the trolley car system,
he gave me his hat.
His old one.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, is that right?
SPEAKER 2: And I have a picture of me
about seven years old with that hat on.
Now, I don't know what happened to that hat,
but I would just give all kinds of money
if I could find that hat, I'll tell you.
SPEAKER 3: [LAUGHS]
SPEAKER 2: I tell you, I would--
SPEAKER 1: You wanted the same [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 3: [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Well, I don't know.
We moved a couple of times, and of course that--
you know, that would do it.
Now, this is a bad picture, but it says on there--
it's on a tree, but it says capital west Adams
on that end of the car.
Were there trees at the end of that line?
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Maybe somebody forgot to change the sign.
Oh, hey-- maybe that's at the end of the Hollywood line.
SPEAKER 1: Let me see.
No, that wasn't at the end of the Hollywood line, either.
That old [INAUDIBLE],, that could have been at Eastlake Park,
I'll bet you.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: That's right here on Jefferson Street, heading west.
SPEAKER 2: On Eastlake Park.
Yeah.
That's sounds right.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
That's on Jefferson.
There was trees alongside, there.
SPEAKER 3: He's still got his [INAUDIBLE] in his bus cap.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: And this is who with you?
SPEAKER 1: That's Mr. Thompson.
He was the superintendent until he died.
He was an operator.
I knew him for quite a while.
SPEAKER 2: Who was the fellow that used to be the, um--
that used to have a little tin box downtown,
right there at the Ford Hotel?
The kind of a little deal that somebody worked out.
Some kind of a supervisor, or something.
SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
Was it a little Scotsman, right here?
SPEAKER 2: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Little Jack Stevens, you see.
SPEAKER 2: Was that who that was?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, little Jack Stevens.
Well, he finally got in bad, Jack did.
And finally got to drinking, and went to the dogs, they say.
Him and his wife separated, and went the dogs.
His name was Jack Stevens.
SPEAKER 2: But he was the--
SPEAKER 1: Supervisor.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: And after him, why, George [INAUDIBLE]
got into the supervisor, actually.
George [INAUDIBLE] got into supervisor as they say.
SPEAKER 2: Well, I will bring your pictures
back within a week, or so.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, that'll be--
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Oh, me.
SPEAKER 3: [LAUGHS] You like [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 3: You do?
SPEAKER 2: Sure.
Well, I don't like it.
I mean, I don't like it--
you mean, do I like the way it's going?
SPEAKER 3: Yes.
SPEAKER 2: No.
No.
It's good from a business standpoint--
SPEAKER 1: This is one I can't believe I shot this one.
SPEAKER 2: How about that?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
I also had number one badge.
SPEAKER 3: You had a picture [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 1: I had number one badge, and when I retired,
I looked, and John [INAUDIBLE] was next to me.
John was above me, and he got to be supervisor, too.
Then I didn't mind-- at the end time,
I took my badge off and gave it to Walter [INAUDIBLE],,
because was the next top man.
Number one man.
And then he died.
He told me he had it down [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 3: It's beautiful.
SPEAKER 1: I had to engrave, so I had it nickel-plated,
you know, so it always stayed shiny.
This was the capsule.
SPEAKER 3: They probably would give it to you.
Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Never did get down to see her, which we should.
SPEAKER 2: Well, if you do, you ought to reclaim your badge.
SPEAKER 1: I feel sorry.
I think she's got to get it [INAUDIBLE]
could be awful nice for [INAUDIBLE]..
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
No, in answer to your question, I--
[STATIC]
That was the conclusion of the first interview
that I made with Mr. Bill Scott, formerly
of the Phoenix Street Railway System.
Interview was January 30th, 1972,
in Mr. Scott's home on [INAUDIBLE] Road.
I hope to have another interview with him shortly,
and to be able to show him the new pictures
that I'm going to pick up tomorrow from Arizona
Photographic Associates.
[STATIC]
--real interesting for me.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, and I brought some pictures
that I didn't have last time, I thought
you might be interested in seeing.
There's a picture of the first horse car
that they ran in 1887.
They ran that out to--
that's at 7th Avenue and Washington Street,
if you would believe that.
SPEAKER 1: 7th and Washington.
SPEAKER 2: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 1: They used run all the way to the Five Points,
I mean, the first ones used in town, they ran to Five Points
so it had to be 7th and Van Buren.
SPEAKER 2: Right.
SPEAKER 1: They got quite a crowd, there, didn't they?
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
They surely did.
SPEAKER 1: Quite right.
And men's old-fashioned black hats, and everything.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
And white mules, and all that kind of stuff.
Here's some other ones of mule cars by the old courthouse.
Or old city hall, one or the other.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER 2: Those big signs to the natatorium.
I looked that word up.
That means it's a swimming pool.
An indoor swimming pool.
That one, that must have been at Eastlake Park.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
I think that was about the first one--
they said that was the first park, I guess, they had.
Yeah.
They slowed you down quite a way on them old street cars.
Did they have them kind, do you reckon, here?
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: They did?
SPEAKER 2: That's taken at--
let's see.
It don't say.
But that's about from Washington Street
and where the Fox Theater is, now.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
The old city hall-- well, that would be
quite a ways across the street.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: That would be where the big new plaza is
going in there, or whatever it's called, now.
SPEAKER 2: Here's Washington and First Street.
SPEAKER 1: Washington and First Street.
SPEAKER 2: That was about--
I think the date's on the back, there.
18-- doesn't say.
But I'd say, oh, it's probably 1890, or thereabouts. '94, '95.
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE] they had them there.
I don't know if they had them in that area all the time.
SPEAKER 2: They put them in in '93, I think,
was the first one.
So that would have been '95 or '96, somewhere around in there.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
That's where they must have turned the corner.
SPEAKER 2: Right.
SPEAKER 1: Not-- oh, at First Street?
Yeah.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Pretty sure you're right.
That's where the old Fox Theater is.
SPEAKER 2: Over here, on this side.
And then Goldwater's, and the courts that would be up here,
on this side.
SPEAKER 1: That's right.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: And the interesting [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 1: You went to somebody else to have these, or--
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.
I've been running these down all over.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, you have.
You sure have.
Oh, that's the old courthouse, right there.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
1896.
They've got one of those cars in clothes, there.
It's a four-wheeler.
SPEAKER 1: Think that's a [INAUDIBLE] That old guy,
he looks kind of natural at it.
SPEAKER 2: It's a shame that they tore that down.
That would make a real attractive building.
SPEAKER 1: They wanted a [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
I just thought this one's kind of interesting,
because it shows people getting ready to come out and try
to get on the street car, there.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's interesting.
SPEAKER 2: I wonder if that's got a date on it?
I think it's 1911.
SPEAKER 1: 1911?
Well, just before the state and the [INAUDIBLE] became a state,
huh?
Look at this.
I expect these might be some of them old buildings still there.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
This one is still there.
That's right on-- that's the Goodrich Building.
It must have been brand new, then.
It's right there on Central Avenue.
SPEAKER 1: Is that right?
SPEAKER 2: So it's been there a long, long time.
SPEAKER 1: Well, that's a pretty old building, then.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
I didn't know it was that old.
Here's a picture.
It says, "taken in 1925 at the car barns."
I put a number six, there, on the card.
It says number one on the side of that car.
But I've never seen any other pictures quite like that one.
SPEAKER 1: Well, we had one car.
It was marked number one.
And then we had another marked 33,
that we used to use on fairground line, or something.
I couldn't tell you who that is, there.
SPEAKER 2: Well, it says number one, though, on it.
SPEAKER 1: This says number one.
This might have been one of the old number one cars.
They only had two that I remember at that time.
They might have had some others, but 33 was the gooseneck.
[INAUDIBLE] you know?
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: This was one that doesn't have a date on it,
but I've got number--
I put an 11 on the photograph, just for my reference.
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
This is somebody.
I don't know.
You probably can't make it out, who it is.
Apparently, that was a one-man operation.
Didn't have a conductor on it.
I don't see one on there.
SPEAKER 1: If there was one on the trolley,
then it would have seen him.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
But see, compared when you look at this--
this was car number one.
And this one, see how this has got the stairwell that
goes to the inside compartment, and this
has got right out on the end.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
SPEAKER 2: I guess--
SPEAKER 1: That could have been the one old car that they had,
one time or another.
I wondered how they had two different cars even
when I come here.
It balances the others.
I think that number one and 33, when I first come here.
SPEAKER 2: Did you ever run that one?
SPEAKER 1: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 2: What did they have on it?
SPEAKER 1: We mostly used only used that on the special.
Like, they did use it on the school line pretty regular,
but they kept it to the fairground
whenever the circus was in town, or something.
Because it could hold quite a lot more than the others.
SPEAKER 2: Did it have a wheel, for a brake, or--
SPEAKER 1: No, it had a motor and an air brake on it.
SPEAKER 2: It had an air brake on it?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
The old 73 didn't have--
it had a gooseneck, I remember.
You used to twist out.
SPEAKER 2: Now, this has a 60 on it.
That one, there.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
What was this, here?
SPEAKER 2: Did they have a lot like that?
SPEAKER 1: Yes.
When I come here, I understood-- because when I come here--
SPEAKER 2: Build had been open.
SPEAKER 1: I was trying to think whether it
was open on both ends, like that, on it.
I guess they was open.
But when they told me, these old cars was turned the other way,
I mean, the seats used to set out.
The ones they got from San Diego.
SPEAKER 2: Now, this is what I've got.
It's number 11.
But see, here's First Avenue, or First Street again.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
Right.
[INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: And see?
I think this is probably very much
the same car, only open on both ends.
They hadn't enclosed it, yet.
I don't really know.
SPEAKER 1: Not sure if they [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: That says-- let's see what that says, date-wise.
1900.
SPEAKER 1: 1900?
SPEAKER 2: Mm-hmm.
And they called it-- you can't hardly read it,
but they called it Phoenix Railway Company then.
That's car number 19, there, where the seats go straight
across.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
Well, they told me--
[INAUDIBLE] there was some--
they had a few of these cars, something, with half enclosed,
and half wasn't enclosed.
SPEAKER 2: I don't know.
Here's a picture.
I bet that's what you're talking about.
SPEAKER 1: Well, that's the old--
SPEAKER 2: That says 21 on it.
SPEAKER 1: It sure looks like it.
That old car [INAUDIBLE] That could have been.
Because there was longer relays, and there
was two bigger cars than the rest of them at that time.
And I know the owners used them for something special
like that.
This has the gates, where they had to shut the gates.
SPEAKER 2: How did that work?
Did you have to hook it, yourself?
The [INAUDIBLE] did that?
SPEAKER 1: Yes, on the front.
He could ferry the front, the conductor or the [INAUDIBLE]
if he had anybody up in front, he had to watch that himself.
SPEAKER 2: And that had a gooseneck brake?
SPEAKER 1: No.
No, that one had a standard brake, I think.
But I didn't think that--
it didn't seem like it [INAUDIBLE] right through,
here.
It wasn't on both sides like this, here.
[INAUDIBLE] But this was open.
This was open over on the other side, and this was closed.
I think they had some of that kind at the time.
I tried to locate [INAUDIBLE] but I
wasn't feeling like going over there and hunting,
to look for anything.
But he could remember just like--
SPEAKER 2: You know, the funny thing about that--
that particular car, there-- is I'll bet you--
if I can find the photograph, now,
that I had just a minute ago--
now where'd that go?
SPEAKER 1: Is this one it?
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.
I'll bet you that this car and this car are the same in kind.
Because if you count the windows in the enclosed part,
there's one, two, three, four, five windows.
You got one, two, three, four, five windows.
And then there's a wider space, right here,
where it was originally a step up to go inside between here
and here.
And see how this has a wide space in here?
SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 2: And then you count the rest of the windows--
what would be windows--
and you got one, two, three, four.
And you got one, two, three, four.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
Well, there was some half enclosed.
And then the half enclosed and solid, and then, as you say,
the step is in the center, here.
It opened on the end of the seats, there.
It was enclosed in on the side.
And later on, they put windows and stuff in there,
and closed them up.
And then they twisted them around again.
SPEAKER 2: Well, it looks like they done
a lot of reconstruction, huh?
SPEAKER 1: They did a bunch of that.
Especially before I got here, they
must have done a lot of it, because this whole [INAUDIBLE]..
SPEAKER 2: That would look like it
would carry-- that car 21 looks like it
would carry a lot of people.
SPEAKER 1: Yes, it could.
I think they-- well, I had 163 fares were adding up one
time, on old 33.
So we knew it could carry that many.
Because Mr. [INAUDIBLE] told me to be sure and get the fares,
and he said, if you can't get the register
to pull the string, why, be sure to get the fares.
He said, that's what we're after, anyhow.
SPEAKER 2: Who was [INAUDIBLE]?
Superintendent?
SPEAKER 1: He was superintendent when I signed in.
Yeah.
Mr. Mitchell was--
Mr. Sherman still owned it for about six months or a year
after I did, with Sherman Investment Company.
But they claimed he was a real old fellow, and Mr.
[INAUDIBLE] was the superintendent of the--
SPEAKER 2: How about Mitchell?
When was he--
SPEAKER 1: Mitchell was over [INAUDIBLE]..
He wasn't there much of the time.
Mitchell seemed to, like, come and go for a while.
I didn't see him very often.
SPEAKER 2: Mitchell ran it the longest period of time.
SPEAKER 1: Yes.
I think he did.
He must have started in way--
SPEAKER 2: Way back.
SPEAKER 1: Way back before that.
And then I know he'd been away on a vacation, one time.
Or been away on something or other.
And he came home, and I was breaking
in a man on the street cars.
And when he got to Second or Third Street, going east,
well then they started collecting the fares again.
And he ran through [INAUDIBLE] and started
to collect the fare from Mr. Mitchell,
and Mr. Mitchell said, I don't have to pay a fare.
And he says, the hell you don't
SPEAKER 2: [LAUGHS]
SPEAKER 1: The hell you don't, he says.
To let you ride this car, you have to pay.
He says he's got something to show for it.
And Mr. Mitchell looks up at him,
and he says, [INAUDIBLE] make him pay his fare.
But the next day, why, Willy told me about it,
and then they called [INAUDIBLE] about it.
And Mitchell said he values that kind of man, and everything,
but he didn't want him to use that kind of language
on the streetcar.
You know?
[LAUGHS]
But he paid his fare, all right.
The fellow didn't know any better.
And I didn't, until after he got [INAUDIBLE]
out [INAUDIBLE],, and I [INAUDIBLE] back in his car.
SPEAKER 2: There's one in the late 1890s.
Completely open.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
That was right open.
I guess that was the senior cars, more or less,
from San Diego.
They told me they were San Diego, the senior cars,
when I come here.
But, of course, that was on the side.
They didn't have any open out when I come here.
But they said they had changed them.
Next I came across, they had the aisle down the center
to collect the fares on, it looks like.
But I never seen one gussied up like that, without the box can.
That awful old man winter is just
banging and running, there.
SPEAKER 2: From the back end?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
Just look at him standing up there, the way he's looking.
SPEAKER 2: That's on number seven.
Seven, yeah.
Well, that's entirely possible.
I mean, it could've been.
Here's an interesting one, because it shows the fellows
with the horse and buggy trying to beat the car.
Now, that's coming down--
this is Washington, here, and this is First Street.
And this is where [INAUDIBLE] ended up in later years.
[INAUDIBLE] your assignment was down there.
But here's a shot with the rig is
trying to race the streetcar.
SPEAKER 1: They weren't trying to race anybody else, I guess.
SPEAKER 2: Well.
I don't know about that.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
I mean, you think that.
You know?
SPEAKER 2: They're sure making a run for it.
SPEAKER 1: [LAUGHS] The car was supposed
to make the turn, there, see?
Trolley's there [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: That is a nice [INAUDIBLE] this trolley right
here.
SPEAKER 2: Here's a picture of car 43.
Maybe you can recognize some of those people.
I don't know.
Got in front of the car barn.
"Early 1900s" is all it says.
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Car was fairly new.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
It must have been.
Of course, they wanted me to give it some paint
whether they needed it or not.
Hell of a picture.
I just can't remember, and it seems
like I [INAUDIBLE] That's when the car [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: What did you call them?
SPEAKER 1: Old clunkies, we called them.
We'd clean them out, gut them, let them get in the cars,
worked them over [INAUDIBLE].
SPEAKER 2: Cleaned them up?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
We called them clunkies, or something.
SPEAKER 2: What kind of a brake system did that one have?
SPEAKER 1: This looks like it had the air brake on it.
Most of them all had air brakes after they
got the trolley, here, that--
like a trolley that mounted it up, and everything.
The old handbrake cars [INAUDIBLE]
So that was [INAUDIBLE] I can't say
who that was [INAUDIBLE] He's a couple of years
older than I am, but he was here many years before I came.
And then he went away and got work in government,
and then he came back up here and worked again with me.
SPEAKER 2: Here was something that's kind of interesting.
This is at McDowell, looking north on Third Street.
And they were paving it in 1940.
SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
There were some [INAUDIBLE] crews
in the street, there, across McDowell [INAUDIBLE] got
a switch right over [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER 2: Was that switch there when you first went to work?
SPEAKER 1: Yes, I believe it was.
You know, we had to--
we had one car getting ready to move, too late
in the daytime and [INAUDIBLE] we were supposed to get off
[INAUDIBLE]