WEBVTT

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SPEAKER 1: He was going to do--

00:00:01.660 --> 00:00:03.760
well, he's the one who
put that magazine out.

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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SPEAKER 1: I don't know whether
he carried on, or [INAUDIBLE]..

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SPEAKER 2: But anyway,
as I say, there

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are a lot of people who
are interested in trains

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and trolley cars,
and there's about--

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oh, I think that last time
I saw ticket [INAUDIBLE]

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about 275,000 people
who are actually

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real, real enthusiastic
one sort or another.

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And books on these
various subjects do sell.

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And, um, I'm not--

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you know, so it would
at least, I think,

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be a break-even proposition.

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And I think it would be kind
of a nice historical thing.

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SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]
All my memories and--

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SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.

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Well, somebody ought to
know what's going on.

00:00:48.890 --> 00:00:49.890
SPEAKER 1: That's right.

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What has passed.

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Yes, sir.

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Just like old Carl
Hayden, who passed away.

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Well, everybody remembers him.

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SPEAKER 2: These-- these
are really something,

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I'll tell you.

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[LAUGHS] Yeah.

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That's really something.

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SPEAKER 3: There's
a lot of them.

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[INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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[INAUDIBLE] tell me if you--

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[INTERPOSING VOICES]

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SPEAKER 2: All right.

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I'll do that.

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And I just thank you much.

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I just can't tell you.

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SPEAKER 3: What about the token?

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Did you ask about that?

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SPEAKER 1: No, [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: Oh, that's
really something.

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SPEAKER 3: I got
some them tokens

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we used to use for [INAUDIBLE]
What do you call them things?

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SPEAKER 2: But you must--
you must take care of that.

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[INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 3: [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: Well, you know,
that's not such a bad idea.

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I saw--

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SPEAKER 1: Well,
if I'd known what

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it did when I was on the cars,
I'd have saved a lot more.

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SPEAKER 2: I was down--
when I was in New Orleans,

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I was in a store, and they were
selling silver certificates.

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You know, like with
the old dollar bill?

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For $1.75.

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SPEAKER 3: He's got a
trade dollar in there.

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SPEAKER 1: You wanted
to take these--

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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These are the ones I
wanted to reproduce.

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Now, let's see.

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Let's see if I can figure
out what this might be.

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Well, that was-- couldn't
tell where that is,

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but that's you and
[INAUDIBLE],, is what that is.

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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I think that's on the
rail line, I believe.

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[INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: OK.

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And this is the day
that we finished.

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And that, of course, is out at
the end of the Indian school

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line.

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SPEAKER 3: It's on the
back, there, someplace.

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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"Terminal at Indian
school and third.

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The automobile was about 1926."

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SPEAKER 3: That other
guy put that on there.

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SPEAKER 2: Right.

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What did you call that car?

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What kind of model,
or class, or--

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SPEAKER 1: Well, that looks like
one of the four uses we had.

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SPEAKER 2: You don't have
any pictures of the ones who

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went to Glendale, do you?

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I didn't see any.

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SPEAKER 1: No.

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No, there wasn't none of them.

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I have none of them.

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I don't know why.

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SPEAKER 2: That's on the brill.

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It says brill on it, so that's--

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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[INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: OK.

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And this is the old
gentleman who broke in.

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SPEAKER 1: That's right.

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SPEAKER 2: You
know, you remember

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when they went from this kind
of a hat to the other kind?

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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SPEAKER 2: But when they did
that, Mr. Smith gave me his.

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Because he lived down on, uh--

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where was it?

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SPEAKER 1: Was it Joe Smith?

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SPEAKER 2: Well, whether
it was Joe Smith, or not,

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I don't know.

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But whichever Smith it was,
he worked for the trolley car

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system, and he lived on
Jefferson, about another half

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a block or so from my house.

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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He lived right across
from [INAUDIBLE]..

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah, right.

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Right.

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SPEAKER 1: That was Joe Smith.

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SPEAKER 2: So that
was Joe Smith.

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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SPEAKER 2: Well, when they--

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SPEAKER 3: That's what
he was talking about,

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you talked to him.

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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Well, when they switched hats
on the trolley car system,

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he gave me his hat.

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His old one.

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SPEAKER 1: Oh, is that right?

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SPEAKER 2: And I
have a picture of me

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about seven years
old with that hat on.

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Now, I don't know what
happened to that hat,

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but I would just give
all kinds of money

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if I could find that
hat, I'll tell you.

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SPEAKER 3: [LAUGHS]

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SPEAKER 2: I tell you, I would--

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SPEAKER 1: You wanted
the same [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 3: [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: Well, I don't know.

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We moved a couple of
times, and of course that--

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you know, that would do it.

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Now, this is a bad picture,
but it says on there--

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it's on a tree, but it
says capital west Adams

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on that end of the car.

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Were there trees at
the end of that line?

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SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: Maybe somebody
forgot to change the sign.

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Oh, hey-- maybe that's at the
end of the Hollywood line.

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SPEAKER 1: Let me see.

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No, that wasn't at the end of
the Hollywood line, either.

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That old [INAUDIBLE],, that could
have been at Eastlake Park,

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I'll bet you.

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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SPEAKER 1: That's right here on
Jefferson Street, heading west.

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SPEAKER 2: On Eastlake Park.

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Yeah.

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That's sounds right.

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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That's on Jefferson.

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There was trees
alongside, there.

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SPEAKER 3: He's still got his
[INAUDIBLE] in his bus cap.

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[INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: And this
is who with you?

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SPEAKER 1: That's Mr. Thompson.

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He was the superintendent
until he died.

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He was an operator.

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I knew him for quite a while.

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SPEAKER 2: Who was the fellow
that used to be the, um--

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that used to have a
little tin box downtown,

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right there at the Ford Hotel?

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The kind of a little deal
that somebody worked out.

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Some kind of a
supervisor, or something.

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SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.

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Was it a little
Scotsman, right here?

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah, yeah.

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SPEAKER 1: Little
Jack Stevens, you see.

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SPEAKER 2: Was
that who that was?

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah,
little Jack Stevens.

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Well, he finally got
in bad, Jack did.

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And finally got to drinking,
and went to the dogs, they say.

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Him and his wife separated,
and went the dogs.

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His name was Jack Stevens.

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SPEAKER 2: But he was the--

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SPEAKER 1: Supervisor.

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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SPEAKER 1: And after him,
why, George [INAUDIBLE]

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got into the
supervisor, actually.

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George [INAUDIBLE] got into
supervisor as they say.

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SPEAKER 2: Well, I will
bring your pictures

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back within a week, or so.

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SPEAKER 1: Oh, that'll be--

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[INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: Oh, me.

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SPEAKER 3: [LAUGHS]
You like [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.

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SPEAKER 3: You do?

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SPEAKER 2: Sure.

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Well, I don't like it.

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I mean, I don't like it--

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you mean, do I like
the way it's going?

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SPEAKER 3: Yes.

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SPEAKER 2: No.

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No.

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It's good from a
business standpoint--

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SPEAKER 1: This is one I
can't believe I shot this one.

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SPEAKER 2: How about that?

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SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

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I also had number one badge.

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SPEAKER 3: You had a
picture [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 1: I had number one
badge, and when I retired,

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I looked, and John
[INAUDIBLE] was next to me.

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John was above me, and he
got to be supervisor, too.

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Then I didn't mind--
at the end time,

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I took my badge off and gave
it to Walter [INAUDIBLE],,

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because was the next top man.

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Number one man.

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And then he died.

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He told me he had
it down [INAUDIBLE]

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SPEAKER 3: It's beautiful.

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SPEAKER 1: I had to engrave,
so I had it nickel-plated,

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you know, so it
always stayed shiny.

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This was the capsule.

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SPEAKER 3: They probably
would give it to you.

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Yeah.

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SPEAKER 1: Never did get down
to see her, which we should.

00:07:07.430 --> 00:07:09.470
SPEAKER 2: Well, if you do, you
ought to reclaim your badge.

00:07:09.470 --> 00:07:09.826
SPEAKER 1: I feel sorry.

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I think she's got to
get it [INAUDIBLE]

00:07:11.490 --> 00:07:13.840
could be awful nice
for [INAUDIBLE]..

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SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

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No, in answer to
your question, I--

00:07:17.794 --> 00:07:19.980
[STATIC]

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That was the conclusion
of the first interview

00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:30.240
that I made with Mr.
Bill Scott, formerly

00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.480
of the Phoenix Street
Railway System.

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Interview was
January 30th, 1972,

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in Mr. Scott's home
on [INAUDIBLE] Road.

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I hope to have another
interview with him shortly,

00:07:43.368 --> 00:07:45.160
and to be able to show
him the new pictures

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that I'm going to pick
up tomorrow from Arizona

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Photographic Associates.

00:07:49.762 --> 00:07:52.714
[STATIC]

00:08:00.094 --> 00:08:01.570
--real interesting for me.

00:08:01.570 --> 00:08:03.201
I appreciate it.

00:08:03.201 --> 00:08:05.460
Yeah, and I brought
some pictures

00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:07.170
that I didn't have
last time, I thought

00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:10.020
you might be
interested in seeing.

00:08:10.020 --> 00:08:13.730
There's a picture of
the first horse car

00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:15.810
that they ran in 1887.

00:08:15.810 --> 00:08:18.030
They ran that out to--

00:08:18.030 --> 00:08:20.550
that's at 7th Avenue
and Washington Street,

00:08:20.550 --> 00:08:22.060
if you would believe that.

00:08:22.060 --> 00:08:23.310
SPEAKER 1: 7th and Washington.

00:08:23.310 --> 00:08:24.360
SPEAKER 2: Mm-hmm.

00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.660
SPEAKER 1: They used run all
the way to the Five Points,

00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:31.525
I mean, the first ones used in
town, they ran to Five Points

00:08:31.525 --> 00:08:33.659
so it had to be
7th and Van Buren.

00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:34.850
SPEAKER 2: Right.

00:08:34.850 --> 00:08:37.100
SPEAKER 1: They got quite a
crowd, there, didn't they?

00:08:37.100 --> 00:08:37.767
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:08:37.767 --> 00:08:39.120
They surely did.

00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:40.078
SPEAKER 1: Quite right.

00:08:40.078 --> 00:08:42.630
And men's old-fashioned
black hats, and everything.

00:08:42.630 --> 00:08:43.360
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.120
And white mules, and
all that kind of stuff.

00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:51.030
Here's some other ones of mule
cars by the old courthouse.

00:08:51.030 --> 00:08:52.670
Or old city hall,
one or the other.

00:08:52.670 --> 00:08:55.220
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's right.

00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:58.470
SPEAKER 2: Those big
signs to the natatorium.

00:08:58.470 --> 00:08:59.580
I looked that word up.

00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:01.050
That means it's a swimming pool.

00:09:01.050 --> 00:09:03.760
An indoor swimming pool.

00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:06.203
That one, that must have
been at Eastlake Park.

00:09:06.203 --> 00:09:06.870
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:08.560
I think that was
about the first one--

00:09:08.560 --> 00:09:11.000
they said that was the first
park, I guess, they had.

00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:11.500
Yeah.

00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:14.640
They slowed you down quite a
way on them old street cars.

00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:16.640
Did they have them kind,
do you reckon, here?

00:09:16.640 --> 00:09:17.307
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:09:17.307 --> 00:09:18.140
SPEAKER 1: They did?

00:09:18.140 --> 00:09:19.330
SPEAKER 2: That's taken at--

00:09:19.330 --> 00:09:20.590
let's see.

00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:21.720
It don't say.

00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:23.540
But that's about from
Washington Street

00:09:23.540 --> 00:09:25.440
and where the Fox
Theater is, now.

00:09:28.743 --> 00:09:29.410
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:09:29.410 --> 00:09:31.360
The old city hall--
well, that would be

00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:32.980
quite a ways across the street.

00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:33.650
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:09:33.650 --> 00:09:35.480
SPEAKER 1: That would be
where the big new plaza is

00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.408
going in there, or
whatever it's called, now.

00:09:39.583 --> 00:09:41.500
SPEAKER 2: Here's
Washington and First Street.

00:09:45.505 --> 00:09:47.130
SPEAKER 1: Washington
and First Street.

00:09:47.130 --> 00:09:48.130
SPEAKER 2: That was about--

00:09:48.130 --> 00:09:49.770
I think the date's
on the back, there.

00:09:49.770 --> 00:09:51.860
18-- doesn't say.

00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:56.928
But I'd say, oh, it's probably
1890, or thereabouts. '94, '95.

00:09:56.928 --> 00:09:58.720
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]
they had them there.

00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:00.260
I don't know if they had them
in that area all the time.

00:10:00.260 --> 00:10:02.450
SPEAKER 2: They put
them in in '93, I think,

00:10:02.450 --> 00:10:03.340
was the first one.

00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:06.740
So that would have been '95 or
'96, somewhere around in there.

00:10:06.740 --> 00:10:07.430
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:10:07.430 --> 00:10:09.150
That's where they must
have turned the corner.

00:10:09.150 --> 00:10:09.858
SPEAKER 2: Right.

00:10:09.858 --> 00:10:11.630
SPEAKER 1: Not--
oh, at First Street?

00:10:11.630 --> 00:10:11.840
Yeah.

00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:12.030
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:10:12.030 --> 00:10:13.530
SPEAKER 1: Pretty
sure you're right.

00:10:13.530 --> 00:10:15.520
That's where the
old Fox Theater is.

00:10:15.520 --> 00:10:18.570
SPEAKER 2: Over
here, on this side.

00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:21.218
And then Goldwater's, and the
courts that would be up here,

00:10:21.218 --> 00:10:21.760
on this side.

00:10:21.760 --> 00:10:23.600
SPEAKER 1: That's right.

00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:27.100
[INAUDIBLE]

00:10:27.100 --> 00:10:29.030
SPEAKER 2: And the
interesting [INAUDIBLE]

00:10:29.030 --> 00:10:31.427
SPEAKER 1: You went to somebody
else to have these, or--

00:10:31.427 --> 00:10:32.260
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.

00:10:32.260 --> 00:10:34.200
I've been running
these down all over.

00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:35.200
SPEAKER 1: Oh, you have.

00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:35.825
You sure have.

00:10:35.825 --> 00:10:37.060
Oh, that's the old
courthouse, right there.

00:10:37.060 --> 00:10:37.727
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:10:37.727 --> 00:10:39.670
1896.

00:10:39.670 --> 00:10:41.960
They've got one of those
cars in clothes, there.

00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.550
It's a four-wheeler.

00:10:44.550 --> 00:10:55.830
SPEAKER 1: Think that's a
[INAUDIBLE] That old guy,

00:10:55.830 --> 00:10:57.670
he looks kind of natural at it.

00:10:57.670 --> 00:10:59.880
SPEAKER 2: It's a shame
that they tore that down.

00:10:59.880 --> 00:11:00.990
That would make a real
attractive building.

00:11:00.990 --> 00:11:02.300
SPEAKER 1: They
wanted a [INAUDIBLE]

00:11:02.300 --> 00:11:02.950
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:11:02.950 --> 00:11:04.590
I just thought this one's
kind of interesting,

00:11:04.590 --> 00:11:06.965
because it shows people getting
ready to come out and try

00:11:06.965 --> 00:11:09.276
to get on the street car, there.

00:11:09.276 --> 00:11:13.462
SPEAKER 1: Yeah,
that's interesting.

00:11:13.462 --> 00:11:15.420
SPEAKER 2: I wonder if
that's got a date on it?

00:11:15.420 --> 00:11:18.200
I think it's 1911.

00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.130
SPEAKER 1: 1911?

00:11:20.130 --> 00:11:23.290
Well, just before the state and
the [INAUDIBLE] became a state,

00:11:23.290 --> 00:11:24.790
huh?

00:11:24.790 --> 00:11:26.295
Look at this.

00:11:26.295 --> 00:11:28.920
I expect these might be some of
them old buildings still there.

00:11:28.920 --> 00:11:28.940
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:29.940
This one is still there.

00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:32.263
That's right on-- that's
the Goodrich Building.

00:11:32.263 --> 00:11:33.680
It must have been
brand new, then.

00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:35.138
It's right there
on Central Avenue.

00:11:35.138 --> 00:11:36.600
SPEAKER 1: Is that right?

00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:39.906
SPEAKER 2: So it's been
there a long, long time.

00:11:39.906 --> 00:11:42.100
SPEAKER 1: Well, that's a
pretty old building, then.

00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:42.767
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:11:42.767 --> 00:11:44.532
I didn't know it was that old.

00:11:44.532 --> 00:11:45.240
Here's a picture.

00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:50.316
It says, "taken in
1925 at the car barns."

00:11:50.316 --> 00:11:52.760
I put a number six,
there, on the card.

00:11:52.760 --> 00:11:55.130
It says number one on
the side of that car.

00:11:55.130 --> 00:11:59.420
But I've never seen any other
pictures quite like that one.

00:11:59.420 --> 00:12:01.832
SPEAKER 1: Well, we had one car.

00:12:01.832 --> 00:12:03.660
It was marked number one.

00:12:03.660 --> 00:12:06.270
And then we had
another marked 33,

00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:11.220
that we used to use on
fairground line, or something.

00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:12.875
I couldn't tell you
who that is, there.

00:12:12.875 --> 00:12:15.000
SPEAKER 2: Well, it says
number one, though, on it.

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.333
SPEAKER 1: This says number one.

00:12:16.333 --> 00:12:18.970
This might have been one
of the old number one cars.

00:12:18.970 --> 00:12:21.430
They only had two that
I remember at that time.

00:12:21.430 --> 00:12:25.804
They might have had some others,
but 33 was the gooseneck.

00:12:25.804 --> 00:12:28.350
[INAUDIBLE] you know?

00:12:28.350 --> 00:12:29.300
[INAUDIBLE]

00:12:29.300 --> 00:12:35.295
SPEAKER 2: This was one that
doesn't have a date on it,

00:12:35.295 --> 00:12:36.170
but I've got number--

00:12:36.170 --> 00:12:39.183
I put an 11 on the photograph,
just for my reference.

00:12:39.183 --> 00:12:40.100
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]

00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:40.430
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:12:40.430 --> 00:12:41.240
This is somebody.

00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:41.830
I don't know.

00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:45.260
You probably can't
make it out, who it is.

00:12:45.260 --> 00:12:48.200
Apparently, that was
a one-man operation.

00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:49.770
Didn't have a conductor on it.

00:12:49.770 --> 00:12:51.028
I don't see one on there.

00:12:51.028 --> 00:12:52.820
SPEAKER 1: If there
was one on the trolley,

00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:53.640
then it would have seen him.

00:12:53.640 --> 00:12:53.860
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:12:53.860 --> 00:12:55.750
But see, compared when
you look at this--

00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:57.410
this was car number one.

00:12:57.410 --> 00:13:00.373
And this one, see how this
has got the stairwell that

00:13:00.373 --> 00:13:02.040
goes to the inside
compartment, and this

00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:03.600
has got right out on the end.

00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.030
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:13:05.030 --> 00:13:06.797
SPEAKER 2: I guess--

00:13:06.797 --> 00:13:09.380
SPEAKER 1: That could have been
the one old car that they had,

00:13:09.380 --> 00:13:11.700
one time or another.

00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:14.390
I wondered how they had
two different cars even

00:13:14.390 --> 00:13:15.570
when I come here.

00:13:15.570 --> 00:13:17.420
It balances the others.

00:13:17.420 --> 00:13:21.338
I think that number one and
33, when I first come here.

00:13:21.338 --> 00:13:22.880
SPEAKER 2: Did you
ever run that one?

00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:24.610
SPEAKER 1: Oh, yeah.

00:13:24.610 --> 00:13:26.110
SPEAKER 2: What did
they have on it?

00:13:26.110 --> 00:13:28.443
SPEAKER 1: We mostly used
only used that on the special.

00:13:28.443 --> 00:13:31.090
Like, they did use it on the
school line pretty regular,

00:13:31.090 --> 00:13:33.360
but they kept it
to the fairground

00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.178
whenever the circus was
in town, or something.

00:13:36.178 --> 00:13:38.470
Because it could hold quite
a lot more than the others.

00:13:38.470 --> 00:13:42.230
SPEAKER 2: Did it have a
wheel, for a brake, or--

00:13:42.230 --> 00:13:45.208
SPEAKER 1: No, it had a
motor and an air brake on it.

00:13:45.208 --> 00:13:46.750
SPEAKER 2: It had
an air brake on it?

00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:47.417
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:13:47.417 --> 00:13:48.540
The old 73 didn't have--

00:13:48.540 --> 00:13:51.030
it had a gooseneck, I remember.

00:13:51.030 --> 00:13:52.710
You used to twist out.

00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:55.010
SPEAKER 2: Now,
this has a 60 on it.

00:13:55.010 --> 00:13:55.760
That one, there.

00:13:55.760 --> 00:13:56.040
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:13:56.040 --> 00:13:57.080
What was this, here?

00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:59.305
SPEAKER 2: Did they
have a lot like that?

00:13:59.305 --> 00:13:59.930
SPEAKER 1: Yes.

00:13:59.930 --> 00:14:04.670
When I come here, I understood--
because when I come here--

00:14:04.670 --> 00:14:06.938
SPEAKER 2: Build had been open.

00:14:06.938 --> 00:14:08.730
SPEAKER 1: I was trying
to think whether it

00:14:08.730 --> 00:14:10.397
was open on both ends,
like that, on it.

00:14:10.397 --> 00:14:11.520
I guess they was open.

00:14:11.520 --> 00:14:15.020
But when they told me, these old
cars was turned the other way,

00:14:15.020 --> 00:14:16.570
I mean, the seats
used to set out.

00:14:16.570 --> 00:14:18.367
The ones they got
from San Diego.

00:14:18.367 --> 00:14:19.950
SPEAKER 2: Now, this
is what I've got.

00:14:19.950 --> 00:14:20.960
It's number 11.

00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.013
But see, here's First Avenue,
or First Street again.

00:14:24.013 --> 00:14:24.680
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:24.930
Right.

00:14:24.930 --> 00:14:25.270
[INAUDIBLE]

00:14:25.270 --> 00:14:25.670
SPEAKER 2: And see?

00:14:25.670 --> 00:14:27.110
I think this is
probably very much

00:14:27.110 --> 00:14:29.110
the same car, only
open on both ends.

00:14:29.110 --> 00:14:31.940
They hadn't enclosed it, yet.

00:14:31.940 --> 00:14:32.780
I don't really know.

00:14:38.181 --> 00:14:41.010
SPEAKER 1: Not sure
if they [INAUDIBLE]

00:14:41.010 --> 00:14:43.530
SPEAKER 2: That says-- let's
see what that says, date-wise.

00:14:43.530 --> 00:14:44.743
1900.

00:14:44.743 --> 00:14:45.410
SPEAKER 1: 1900?

00:14:45.410 --> 00:14:47.163
SPEAKER 2: Mm-hmm.

00:14:47.163 --> 00:14:49.080
And they called it-- you
can't hardly read it,

00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:53.490
but they called it Phoenix
Railway Company then.

00:14:53.490 --> 00:14:56.830
That's car number 19, there,
where the seats go straight

00:14:56.830 --> 00:14:57.330
across.

00:14:57.330 --> 00:14:57.997
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:15:00.150 --> 00:15:02.190
Well, they told me--

00:15:02.190 --> 00:15:04.530
[INAUDIBLE] there was some--

00:15:04.530 --> 00:15:07.400
they had a few of these cars,
something, with half enclosed,

00:15:07.400 --> 00:15:08.640
and half wasn't enclosed.

00:15:08.640 --> 00:15:09.640
SPEAKER 2: I don't know.

00:15:09.640 --> 00:15:11.220
Here's a picture.

00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:13.635
I bet that's what
you're talking about.

00:15:13.635 --> 00:15:15.010
SPEAKER 1: Well,
that's the old--

00:15:15.010 --> 00:15:16.926
SPEAKER 2: That says 21 on it.

00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:22.440
SPEAKER 1: It sure
looks like it.

00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:27.670
That old car [INAUDIBLE]
That could have been.

00:15:27.670 --> 00:15:29.420
Because there was
longer relays, and there

00:15:29.420 --> 00:15:33.270
was two bigger cars than the
rest of them at that time.

00:15:33.270 --> 00:15:35.735
And I know the owners used
them for something special

00:15:35.735 --> 00:15:36.570
like that.

00:15:36.570 --> 00:15:38.982
This has the gates, where
they had to shut the gates.

00:15:38.982 --> 00:15:40.190
SPEAKER 2: How did that work?

00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:41.460
Did you have to
hook it, yourself?

00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:42.450
The [INAUDIBLE] did that?

00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:43.658
SPEAKER 1: Yes, on the front.

00:15:43.658 --> 00:15:46.730
He could ferry the front, the
conductor or the [INAUDIBLE]

00:15:46.730 --> 00:15:51.090
if he had anybody up in front,
he had to watch that himself.

00:15:51.090 --> 00:15:54.477
SPEAKER 2: And that
had a gooseneck brake?

00:15:54.477 --> 00:15:55.060
SPEAKER 1: No.

00:15:55.060 --> 00:15:57.190
No, that one had a
standard brake, I think.

00:15:57.190 --> 00:15:59.850
But I didn't think that--

00:15:59.850 --> 00:16:02.270
it didn't seem like it
[INAUDIBLE] right through,

00:16:02.270 --> 00:16:02.770
here.

00:16:02.770 --> 00:16:04.820
It wasn't on both
sides like this, here.

00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:07.820
[INAUDIBLE] But this was open.

00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:11.060
This was open over on the other
side, and this was closed.

00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:15.600
I think they had some of
that kind at the time.

00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.168
I tried to locate
[INAUDIBLE] but I

00:16:18.168 --> 00:16:20.210
wasn't feeling like going
over there and hunting,

00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:21.190
to look for anything.

00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:23.103
But he could
remember just like--

00:16:23.103 --> 00:16:25.145
SPEAKER 2: You know, the
funny thing about that--

00:16:25.145 --> 00:16:29.410
that particular car,
there-- is I'll bet you--

00:16:29.410 --> 00:16:31.450
if I can find the
photograph, now,

00:16:31.450 --> 00:16:34.852
that I had just a minute ago--

00:16:34.852 --> 00:16:36.487
now where'd that go?

00:16:36.487 --> 00:16:37.570
SPEAKER 1: Is this one it?

00:16:37.570 --> 00:16:38.650
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.

00:16:38.650 --> 00:16:45.220
I'll bet you that this car and
this car are the same in kind.

00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.910
Because if you count the
windows in the enclosed part,

00:16:48.910 --> 00:16:50.980
there's one, two, three,
four, five windows.

00:16:50.980 --> 00:16:53.290
You got one, two, three,
four, five windows.

00:16:53.290 --> 00:16:55.840
And then there's a
wider space, right here,

00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.260
where it was originally a step
up to go inside between here

00:16:59.260 --> 00:17:00.120
and here.

00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.530
And see how this has
a wide space in here?

00:17:02.530 --> 00:17:03.280
SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.

00:17:03.280 --> 00:17:05.200
SPEAKER 2: And then you count
the rest of the windows--

00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:06.240
what would be windows--

00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.334
and you got one,
two, three, four.

00:17:08.334 --> 00:17:10.442
And you got one,
two, three, four.

00:17:10.442 --> 00:17:11.109
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:17:11.109 --> 00:17:14.349
Well, there was
some half enclosed.

00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:17.460
And then the half enclosed and
solid, and then, as you say,

00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:19.200
the step is in the center, here.

00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.339
It opened on the end
of the seats, there.

00:17:21.339 --> 00:17:23.236
It was enclosed in on the side.

00:17:23.236 --> 00:17:25.319
And later on, they put
windows and stuff in there,

00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:26.478
and closed them up.

00:17:26.478 --> 00:17:28.145
And then they twisted
them around again.

00:17:28.145 --> 00:17:29.020
SPEAKER 2: Well, it
looks like they done

00:17:29.020 --> 00:17:30.990
a lot of reconstruction, huh?

00:17:30.990 --> 00:17:32.740
SPEAKER 1: They did
a bunch of that.

00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:35.640
Especially before
I got here, they

00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:39.753
must have done a lot of it,
because this whole [INAUDIBLE]..

00:17:39.753 --> 00:17:41.170
SPEAKER 2: That
would look like it

00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:43.140
would carry-- that
car 21 looks like it

00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:43.930
would carry a lot of people.

00:17:43.930 --> 00:17:44.972
SPEAKER 1: Yes, it could.

00:17:44.972 --> 00:17:50.210
I think they-- well, I had
163 fares were adding up one

00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:52.290
time, on old 33.

00:17:52.290 --> 00:17:53.950
So we knew it could
carry that many.

00:17:53.950 --> 00:17:58.170
Because Mr. [INAUDIBLE] told me
to be sure and get the fares,

00:17:58.170 --> 00:18:01.370
and he said, if you
can't get the register

00:18:01.370 --> 00:18:03.742
to pull the string, why,
be sure to get the fares.

00:18:03.742 --> 00:18:05.450
He said, that's what
we're after, anyhow.

00:18:05.450 --> 00:18:06.360
SPEAKER 2: Who was [INAUDIBLE]?

00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:06.985
Superintendent?

00:18:06.985 --> 00:18:09.550
SPEAKER 1: He was
superintendent when I signed in.

00:18:09.550 --> 00:18:10.050
Yeah.

00:18:10.050 --> 00:18:12.050
Mr. Mitchell was--

00:18:12.050 --> 00:18:15.050
Mr. Sherman still owned it
for about six months or a year

00:18:15.050 --> 00:18:17.800
after I did, with Sherman
Investment Company.

00:18:17.800 --> 00:18:20.580
But they claimed he was a
real old fellow, and Mr.

00:18:20.580 --> 00:18:23.090
[INAUDIBLE] was the
superintendent of the--

00:18:23.090 --> 00:18:24.340
SPEAKER 2: How about Mitchell?

00:18:24.340 --> 00:18:24.940
When was he--

00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:27.515
SPEAKER 1: Mitchell
was over [INAUDIBLE]..

00:18:27.515 --> 00:18:28.890
He wasn't there
much of the time.

00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:32.420
Mitchell seemed to, like,
come and go for a while.

00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:34.180
I didn't see him very often.

00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:36.975
SPEAKER 2: Mitchell ran it
the longest period of time.

00:18:36.975 --> 00:18:37.690
SPEAKER 1: Yes.

00:18:37.690 --> 00:18:38.420
I think he did.

00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:40.277
He must have started in way--

00:18:40.277 --> 00:18:41.110
SPEAKER 2: Way back.

00:18:41.110 --> 00:18:42.748
SPEAKER 1: Way back before that.

00:18:42.748 --> 00:18:48.302
And then I know he'd been
away on a vacation, one time.

00:18:48.302 --> 00:18:49.760
Or been away on
something or other.

00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:51.340
And he came home,
and I was breaking

00:18:51.340 --> 00:18:53.330
in a man on the street cars.

00:18:53.330 --> 00:18:56.810
And when he got to Second
or Third Street, going east,

00:18:56.810 --> 00:18:59.530
well then they started
collecting the fares again.

00:18:59.530 --> 00:19:01.765
And he ran through
[INAUDIBLE] and started

00:19:01.765 --> 00:19:03.790
to collect the fare
from Mr. Mitchell,

00:19:03.790 --> 00:19:06.702
and Mr. Mitchell said, I
don't have to pay a fare.

00:19:06.702 --> 00:19:09.210
And he says, the hell you don't

00:19:09.210 --> 00:19:10.002
SPEAKER 2: [LAUGHS]

00:19:10.002 --> 00:19:11.627
SPEAKER 1: The hell
you don't, he says.

00:19:11.627 --> 00:19:13.400
To let you ride this
car, you have to pay.

00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:15.800
He says he's got
something to show for it.

00:19:15.800 --> 00:19:17.260
And Mr. Mitchell
looks up at him,

00:19:17.260 --> 00:19:19.705
and he says, [INAUDIBLE]
make him pay his fare.

00:19:19.705 --> 00:19:23.210
But the next day, why,
Willy told me about it,

00:19:23.210 --> 00:19:26.366
and then they called
[INAUDIBLE] about it.

00:19:26.366 --> 00:19:29.680
And Mitchell said he values that
kind of man, and everything,

00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.110
but he didn't want him to
use that kind of language

00:19:32.110 --> 00:19:33.226
on the streetcar.

00:19:33.226 --> 00:19:34.391
You know?

00:19:34.391 --> 00:19:36.040
[LAUGHS]

00:19:36.040 --> 00:19:37.793
But he paid his fare, all right.

00:19:37.793 --> 00:19:39.210
The fellow didn't
know any better.

00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:41.080
And I didn't, until
after he got [INAUDIBLE]

00:19:41.080 --> 00:19:44.486
out [INAUDIBLE],, and I
[INAUDIBLE] back in his car.

00:19:44.486 --> 00:19:47.266
SPEAKER 2: There's
one in the late 1890s.

00:19:47.266 --> 00:19:48.123
Completely open.

00:19:48.123 --> 00:19:48.790
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:19:48.790 --> 00:19:49.720
That was right open.

00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:52.360
I guess that was the
senior cars, more or less,

00:19:52.360 --> 00:19:54.460
from San Diego.

00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:57.140
They told me they were San
Diego, the senior cars,

00:19:57.140 --> 00:19:58.130
when I come here.

00:19:58.130 --> 00:20:00.610
But, of course, that
was on the side.

00:20:00.610 --> 00:20:03.100
They didn't have any open
out when I come here.

00:20:03.100 --> 00:20:04.710
But they said they
had changed them.

00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:08.070
Next I came across, they had
the aisle down the center

00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:11.590
to collect the fares
on, it looks like.

00:20:11.590 --> 00:20:16.860
But I never seen one gussied up
like that, without the box can.

00:20:16.860 --> 00:20:18.495
That awful old
man winter is just

00:20:18.495 --> 00:20:19.620
banging and running, there.

00:20:19.620 --> 00:20:20.590
SPEAKER 2: From the back end?

00:20:20.590 --> 00:20:20.830
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:20:20.830 --> 00:20:23.560
Just look at him standing up
there, the way he's looking.

00:20:23.560 --> 00:20:25.360
SPEAKER 2: That's
on number seven.

00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:26.003
Seven, yeah.

00:20:26.003 --> 00:20:27.295
Well, that's entirely possible.

00:20:27.295 --> 00:20:29.540
I mean, it could've been.

00:20:29.540 --> 00:20:31.915
Here's an interesting one,
because it shows the fellows

00:20:31.915 --> 00:20:33.915
with the horse and buggy
trying to beat the car.

00:20:33.915 --> 00:20:35.960
Now, that's coming down--

00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:41.450
this is Washington, here,
and this is First Street.

00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:43.790
And this is where [INAUDIBLE]
ended up in later years.

00:20:43.790 --> 00:20:45.710
[INAUDIBLE] your
assignment was down there.

00:20:45.710 --> 00:20:48.200
But here's a shot
with the rig is

00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.008
trying to race the streetcar.

00:20:52.008 --> 00:20:54.550
SPEAKER 1: They weren't trying
to race anybody else, I guess.

00:20:54.550 --> 00:20:54.780
SPEAKER 2: Well.

00:20:54.780 --> 00:20:55.620
I don't know about that.

00:20:55.620 --> 00:20:56.010
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:20:56.010 --> 00:20:56.968
I mean, you think that.

00:20:56.968 --> 00:20:57.470
You know?

00:20:57.470 --> 00:20:58.836
SPEAKER 2: They're sure
making a run for it.

00:20:58.836 --> 00:21:00.503
SPEAKER 1: [LAUGHS]
The car was supposed

00:21:00.503 --> 00:21:02.350
to make the turn, there, see?

00:21:02.350 --> 00:21:03.586
Trolley's there [INAUDIBLE]

00:21:03.586 --> 00:21:04.253
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.

00:21:08.085 --> 00:21:10.418
SPEAKER 1: That is a nice
[INAUDIBLE] this trolley right

00:21:10.418 --> 00:21:10.918
here.

00:21:14.830 --> 00:21:17.600
SPEAKER 2: Here's a
picture of car 43.

00:21:17.600 --> 00:21:20.468
Maybe you can recognize
some of those people.

00:21:20.468 --> 00:21:23.820
I don't know.

00:21:23.820 --> 00:21:27.200
Got in front of the car barn.

00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.777
"Early 1900s" is all it says.

00:21:32.777 --> 00:21:35.723
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]

00:21:44.090 --> 00:21:45.520
SPEAKER 2: Car was fairly new.

00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:46.187
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:21:46.187 --> 00:21:47.162
It must have been.

00:21:47.162 --> 00:21:49.120
Of course, they wanted
me to give it some paint

00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:51.565
whether they needed it or not.

00:21:51.565 --> 00:21:53.521
Hell of a picture.

00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:58.190
I just can't
remember, and it seems

00:21:58.190 --> 00:22:04.213
like I [INAUDIBLE] That's
when the car [INAUDIBLE]

00:22:04.213 --> 00:22:05.630
SPEAKER 2: What
did you call them?

00:22:05.630 --> 00:22:07.420
SPEAKER 1: Old clunkies,
we called them.

00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:09.540
We'd clean them out, gut them,
let them get in the cars,

00:22:09.540 --> 00:22:10.540
worked them over [INAUDIBLE].

00:22:10.540 --> 00:22:11.665
SPEAKER 2: Cleaned them up?

00:22:11.665 --> 00:22:13.404
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.

00:22:13.404 --> 00:22:15.710
We called them
clunkies, or something.

00:22:15.710 --> 00:22:19.420
SPEAKER 2: What kind of a
brake system did that one have?

00:22:19.420 --> 00:22:23.560
SPEAKER 1: This looks like
it had the air brake on it.

00:22:23.560 --> 00:22:25.920
Most of them all had
air brakes after they

00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.290
got the trolley, here, that--

00:22:30.290 --> 00:22:33.290
like a trolley that mounted
it up, and everything.

00:22:33.290 --> 00:22:41.080
The old handbrake
cars [INAUDIBLE]

00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:46.210
So that was
[INAUDIBLE] I can't say

00:22:46.210 --> 00:22:55.660
who that was [INAUDIBLE]
He's a couple of years

00:22:55.660 --> 00:23:00.400
older than I am, but he was
here many years before I came.

00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.710
And then he went away and
got work in government,

00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:05.330
and then he came back up here
and worked again with me.

00:23:05.330 --> 00:23:07.705
SPEAKER 2: Here was something
that's kind of interesting.

00:23:07.705 --> 00:23:11.410
This is at McDowell, looking
north on Third Street.

00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:13.850
And they were paving it in 1940.

00:23:13.850 --> 00:23:14.900
SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.

00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:15.030
Yeah.

00:23:15.030 --> 00:23:16.405
There were some
[INAUDIBLE] crews

00:23:16.405 --> 00:23:21.350
in the street, there, across
McDowell [INAUDIBLE] got

00:23:21.350 --> 00:23:24.786
a switch right over [INAUDIBLE]

00:23:24.786 --> 00:23:27.670
SPEAKER 2: Was that switch there
when you first went to work?

00:23:27.670 --> 00:23:29.490
SPEAKER 1: Yes,
I believe it was.

00:23:29.490 --> 00:23:32.920
You know, we had to--

00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.980
we had one car getting
ready to move, too late

00:23:35.980 --> 00:23:39.340
in the daytime and [INAUDIBLE]
we were supposed to get off

00:23:39.340 --> 00:23:42.990
[INAUDIBLE]