WEBVTT

00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:06.657
 let me make sure I'm picking me up. Mhm. I'm Mary Melcher, I'm

00:00:06.690 --> 00:00:12.127
interviewing Dora Ocampo Casada in
your home in Wickenburg, Arizona on May

00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:14.707
seven,

00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:19.627
Dora. I understand you're the second
child of your parents. When were you

00:00:19.660 --> 00:00:27.660
born, 1921? December four. Okay. And
your parents names were Jose and

00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:33.406
Francisco, Jose and Francisco, Jose

00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:41.439
franco was his mother's name and
Francisco Ocampo was her maiden name and

00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:48.607
she came from a long time Arizona
family Phil Campbell going back to the

00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:56.640
mid sixties, 18 sixties, several
generations. Uh 12.

00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:02.427
Mhm. I would be 5th generation
Wickenburg. Mhm. And he was a rancher. Your

00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:06.307
grandfather? Um

00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:13.007
All my grandfather's as far as I know
we're ranchers except one who was um

00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:18.786
a shoemaker in las Vegas new Mexico,
but the ones that lived here in

00:01:18.819 --> 00:01:25.316
Arizona were ranchers and cattle. And
the great great grandfather,

00:01:25.349 --> 00:01:30.417
Valencia was also entrepreneur

00:01:30.450 --> 00:01:38.126
and mining, he was not a minor, but he
would cite uh mining claims for

00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:44.027
people your others, so he was quite
knowledgeable in that area. And so

00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:48.967
they would look for him to do this
kind of work, right? But my grandfather

00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:56.046
Compal was in farm farming and cattle,
horses, freighting also. You did

00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.027
some taster. Yeah, it seems like I've
seen that name in relation to

00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:04.016
parading uh because a lot of those
early ones did free. Yeah, he had a he

00:02:04.049 --> 00:02:10.916
had a brother here that came about to
Wickenburg of Teodoro Campo. That

00:02:10.949 --> 00:02:17.756
grandfather had a brother Manuel that
came here Maybe 2025 years later, I

00:02:17.789 --> 00:02:21.156
think it was about 1876,

00:02:21.189 --> 00:02:25.816
something like that. And he came with
the rest of the members of the

00:02:25.849 --> 00:02:33.849
accomplice family. And he went, he did
mostly mining That one brother. So

00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:43.277
but grandfather Ocampo had a ranch in
the Wickenburg area, right? Um He

00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:50.406
sold it in 1908 when he became real. I
don't know if you know all this. So

00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:58.439
um uh he uh he had developed that
piece of land and we don't really know

00:02:58.650 --> 00:03:05.837
where the boundaries are. I mean the
the the deeds are not that exact

00:03:05.870 --> 00:03:13.870
descriptions, they're just sort of big
my uh my I think my information

00:03:13.889 --> 00:03:21.807
leads us to believe that that these
were squatters in the mid 18 sixties.

00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.856
And then at a certain point they got
some kind of legal, whatever it was

00:03:25.889 --> 00:03:32.476
needed. And so he was up here maybe, I
guess the distance might be two

00:03:32.509 --> 00:03:40.436
miles from the city limits at that
time. And uh part of his ranch was on

00:03:40.469 --> 00:03:46.237
the mesa. And then there was a drop
off when the drop off was quite a

00:03:46.270 --> 00:03:53.577
large, very fertile land With a lot of
wonderful, wonderful uh stacked up

00:03:53.610 --> 00:04:01.376
soil really, I guess years of it. And
then in 1890s he developed that land

00:04:01.409 --> 00:04:09.409
and into farming and cattle and
horses. This was open range. So he used to

00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:15.386
build up quite large herds, not in the
thousands, but in the hundreds. And

00:04:15.419 --> 00:04:20.306
then they would ship them off. And

00:04:20.339 --> 00:04:22.606
uh huh

00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:28.496
When he was well established about
1870, maybe four or something like that.

00:04:28.529 --> 00:04:32.767
He made a trip specifically to bring
his mother and brothers and sisters

00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:40.800
back his father and then his back a to
Sonora Mexico. He went to get them.

00:04:42.410 --> 00:04:47.077
Uh he was established here, he had a
house, he had plenty of uh you know

00:04:47.110 --> 00:04:54.587
he could support them and all that.
And so uh He made the trip back and

00:04:54.620 --> 00:04:59.007
coming returning to Wickenburg in
1876.

00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:06.616
Um there was a skirmish with hostile
indians. There was an awful lot of

00:05:06.649 --> 00:05:12.346
that activity went on and they tried
to come in through humor from cab

00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:17.757
orca. That's a town where he came from
and his father was killed and one

00:05:17.790 --> 00:05:23.217
brother was killed there and the rest
of the family came on. There were

00:05:23.250 --> 00:05:29.116
two young sisters and a brother and
his mother and they lived out their

00:05:29.149 --> 00:05:35.306
lives here and then they, you know
they inter married with local people

00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:41.106
and so Manuel's family is quiet. I
mean his descendants really alone,

00:05:41.139 --> 00:05:46.937
large, large group of people very
large. I think they had about 10

00:05:46.970 --> 00:05:51.286
Children that lived. That was another
thing that would happen during those

00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:57.887
years. Now my grandmother had I
believe seven or 8 Children but three

00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:03.457
survived to adulthood. What was your
first name? She's married? I'm called

00:06:03.490 --> 00:06:10.007
Mariana Rodriguez married uh tilde Ro
Ocampo

00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:16.707
And how many survived? three. Yeah.
Mhm. And the others died when they

00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:21.877
were very young, you know, early
teens. And some of them one I think was

00:06:21.910 --> 00:06:29.910
about seven or 8. And then a son
survived until he was 20 I forget them 25

00:06:31.670 --> 00:06:39.670
maybe. And by that time Wickenburg was
a tv resort In the 1920s. And those

00:06:41.779 --> 00:06:46.577
hills that you see out there were
covered with tents, tv tents and the

00:06:46.610 --> 00:06:51.226
townspeople were prohibited to go out
there. But anyway there was a lot of

00:06:51.259 --> 00:06:59.259
that present and I suppose it was easy
to contract the disease if you you

00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:05.897
know that weakness for and that's what
happened to him. So he died I think

00:07:05.930 --> 00:07:13.930
it was 1925. Mhm. And that was that
was the reason that my father gave up

00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:22.387
what he was doing in walnut grove with
another ranching outfit and came to

00:07:22.420 --> 00:07:30.420
manage the oil company cattle. Mhm.
Back to Wickenburg. Right. And

00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:36.777
so you were you born on that ranch
then? No, no I was born here in town.

00:07:36.810 --> 00:07:39.906
You were uh

00:07:39.939 --> 00:07:46.806
My sister, Josephine was born at home
and I was born at home. Uh And the

00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:51.527
house of where I was born and still
standing. It's not too far from the

00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:55.366
bridge as you come into town. Uh Did
your mother have a midwife for a

00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.926
doctor? Doctor? She had doctor for all
well drunk or sober. But they were

00:07:59.959 --> 00:08:04.377
doctors, she had a doctor for all the
deliveries at home. The same one. Dr

00:08:04.410 --> 00:08:08.856
Copeland too. There was a lister that
came before Copeland. Mhm. He

00:08:08.889 --> 00:08:15.517
delivered me and my older sister. Uh
huh and I'm not sure if she delivered

00:08:15.550 --> 00:08:19.926
Alice or it was Copeland delivered
Alice and my two brothers, the three

00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:24.036
younger ones were delivered by
Copeland. Do you know why she chose the

00:08:24.069 --> 00:08:27.257
doctor? Did she ever talk about it?
Because a lot of mexican, I don't

00:08:27.290 --> 00:08:33.506
think she had shot lives? Oh I
suppose, I don't know. Number one that

00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:41.539
could afford it. No two. Uhh probably
she had more faith and her hopes,

00:08:42.669 --> 00:08:48.026
maybe that was more like hopes and the
doctors did a good job well with

00:08:48.059 --> 00:08:54.697
her. They did yeah, this same dr
Copeland delivered one of my aunts, you

00:08:54.730 --> 00:08:59.937
know, maybe two or four years later
and he really botched it up because

00:08:59.970 --> 00:09:04.067
she had a lot of complications and she
ended up with a lot of a lot of

00:09:04.100 --> 00:09:08.687
complications, fractured bones, she
was paralyzed for several months, a

00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:15.476
lot of injury. The mother, the mother,
my my mother's sister and anyway uh

00:09:15.509 --> 00:09:19.307
in the middle of the labor, she had to
be taken to phoenix for delivery.

00:09:19.340 --> 00:09:26.427
So she must have suffered an awful lot
Years later, 60 years later we were

00:09:26.460 --> 00:09:33.207
on a trip with her too. Um Las Vegas
new Mexico where we had gone to meat

00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:40.167
, other um kissing cousins, I mean
lots of them. Oh they're wonderful

00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:46.807
people. So uhh my aunt, you fell On
the side of the road, we've gotten out

00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:51.516
of the car, she fell and we had to
take her to the emergency room because

00:09:51.549 --> 00:09:56.386
she was like 80. And we didn't want to
know if she'd hurt herself. So they

00:09:56.419 --> 00:10:03.106
did some X rays and that's when her
daughter's discovered or learned that

00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:09.476
every bone in her pelvis had fractures
healed. But they were there and had

00:10:09.509 --> 00:10:13.236
to have been from those difficult
deliveries that she went through. Like

00:10:13.269 --> 00:10:17.996
more sips. I wonder if the doctor used
forceps and broke some of her bones.

00:10:18.029 --> 00:10:24.207
You might use a shovel. But they this
was in the 31,

00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:31.006
32 34 I think. So it wasn't a lack of
knowledge, it was lack of knowledge

00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.817
maybe for those doctors. And so a
different doctor came here in 1935 Dr.

00:10:37.850 --> 00:10:45.850
Coleman sold to a new doctor. Mhm. A
younger man. And I don't know, I I

00:10:46.450 --> 00:10:53.026
tend to be critical now, but I'm sure
that at the time this latest doctor

00:10:53.059 --> 00:10:57.967
had probably brought a lot of
improvements, you know. Uh You have to learn

00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.697
something with time, right? Yeah. They
weren't all that well trained, I

00:11:01.730 --> 00:11:05.697
mean, but sometimes the midwives did
just as well, depending on how

00:11:05.730 --> 00:11:08.736
complicated the birth was. The
midwives could have real difficulty was

00:11:08.769 --> 00:11:14.837
complicated. And the doctor is also so
years later after my nursing

00:11:14.870 --> 00:11:22.776
training in the and From say 49 to 54,

00:11:22.809 --> 00:11:28.496
I was I worked in a newborn nursery
wing in the hospital in Mesa. Arizona

00:11:28.529 --> 00:11:34.447
. I was charged nurse on my shift and
all that stuff. I became very

00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:41.807
competent in um deliveries had to
deliver a lot of myself because the

00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:49.167
doctors were such mules had a long day
of color anyway in in delivery and

00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:54.356
timing the delivery. And then later on
I was in charge of the newborn

00:11:54.389 --> 00:12:00.256
nursery. And so it's very
interconnected. The whole thing had a lot of

00:12:00.289 --> 00:12:05.717
interesting experiences those three or
four years there. Um That's where I

00:12:05.750 --> 00:12:13.307
that was the place where I had my
first buddy in with racist doctors and

00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:21.340
having to with patients with me. They
were, there are pleasant. But mm I

00:12:23.309 --> 00:12:29.376
knew that I was more competent. I knew
that but I was more competent than

00:12:29.409 --> 00:12:35.287
a number of people that were promoted
over me and because I was studying

00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:43.320
at the time at issue. I uh I wanted to
get a degree in nursing, bachelor

00:12:43.629 --> 00:12:48.917
of Science in nursing, which they were
offering that year. And I was in

00:12:48.950 --> 00:12:55.797
the first group that went in and to
this day. Um Well anyway that was, I

00:12:55.830 --> 00:13:01.746
started in 49 I believe And finished
in 51.

00:13:01.779 --> 00:13:05.136
Okay, well we're getting ahead of
ourselves. Let's see. So you were

00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:11.026
telling me about your parents. All
right. So you grew up along the the

00:13:11.059 --> 00:13:15.876
river from what else playground. You
played outside a lot. Oh yeah and she

00:13:15.909 --> 00:13:20.356
told me school was very important in
your family. It's major is the only

00:13:20.389 --> 00:13:26.106
thing we're supposed to think about
and we accepted that uh we one of the

00:13:26.139 --> 00:13:30.246
reasons we accepted the whole thing is
because our extended family and

00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:35.217
family friends, there was a lot of
association, people, association, you

00:13:35.250 --> 00:13:39.557
know, no other distractions. No tv
there were a lot of gathering

00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:47.590
especially on Sundays and funerals and
other events. But anyway my mother

00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:54.827
would brag about us but you know that
we didn't know that until we were

00:13:54.860 --> 00:13:59.797
adults when people started telling us,
well she used to say this about

00:13:59.830 --> 00:14:04.537
your brother, said that it's been very
interesting. But anyway we've got a

00:14:04.570 --> 00:14:08.957
lot of support from all these people,
adults and their their relatives or

00:14:08.990 --> 00:14:13.896
their friends or some of the realities
of some of their friends and so we

00:14:13.929 --> 00:14:19.157
felt it made us feel important. Um And
then as far as my parents were

00:14:19.190 --> 00:14:25.447
concerned, they just um insisted that
that was our job, you know, that's

00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:32.016
that's what you're there for All of
all of five kids.

00:14:32.049 --> 00:14:36.106
I think he felt that way about school.
I have one brother that was very

00:14:36.139 --> 00:14:44.037
bright to I mean and other things
anyway, he he felt that the schools

00:14:44.070 --> 00:14:52.070
weren't good enough. Mhm. But uh it
wasn't uh he didn't talk about it at

00:14:52.370 --> 00:14:59.106
the time, he discussed this was his
opinion that he shared with us after

00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:03.776
20 years later he would criticize this
and that and the other he had he

00:15:03.809 --> 00:15:08.016
had a different insight. Uh What about
you spoke spanish when you went to

00:15:08.049 --> 00:15:12.437
school? Oh yes we were in the, in the
house. We always spoke spanish

00:15:12.470 --> 00:15:17.006
period. It was kids, you know um

00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.577
when did you learn english at the same
time that you were going to school

00:15:20.610 --> 00:15:25.726
? I already knew english. So you
learn, I knew Alice knew english when we

00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:30.506
started school. I don't know when when
I learned english I just knew it.

00:15:30.539 --> 00:15:33.486
But your parents really didn't want
you to speak it at home. So you were

00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:37.006
picking it up with your friends, We
were picking it up everywhere. Yeah,

00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:44.246
sure it was kids you played with I
guess. And then uh my older sister was

00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:48.297
one year ahead of me in school and she
didn't know, she'll tell you about

00:15:48.330 --> 00:15:53.307
that but she didn't know english.
Right? So maybe it was so I think that I

00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:58.177
think that I learned probably a lot
from her and I mean it was just fair,

00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.476
you know, I don't know how gradually
picked it up when you were before

00:16:02.509 --> 00:16:06.577
school. It sounds like, oh yeah, when
I entered school I knew english. But

00:16:06.610 --> 00:16:09.356
it's interesting that you knew it that
well since your parents wanted you

00:16:09.389 --> 00:16:14.496
to speak spanish only at home well.
But if you're exposed to seven

00:16:14.529 --> 00:16:18.317
languages, you're going to learn them.
I had a niece that spoke four

00:16:18.350 --> 00:16:22.807
languages when she started school, wow
and it was deliberate. It was the

00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:27.756
family of the parents and wanted her
to the father was italian. the mother

00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:33.787
was mexican and she spoke french and
german, she was so precocious with it

00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:38.057
that they televised her, they made a
show out of the public, she was I

00:16:38.090 --> 00:16:42.707
mean she but I think it was the
concentration.

00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:48.707
I uh I don't know, I'm not an
authority on how people learn languages but

00:16:48.740 --> 00:16:54.217
I have a feeling that everybody learns
languages if conditions are right

00:16:54.250 --> 00:16:59.766
and they learn every language as a
child, especially every language that's

00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.106
out there.

00:17:02.139 --> 00:17:10.139
Um a lot of people that we grew up
with our age, you know, like in the,

00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:13.976
When my father was in the 70s were
dropped by the house and these were

00:17:14.009 --> 00:17:19.266
people that at home spoke French here
in Wickenburg spoke french and

00:17:19.299 --> 00:17:25.056
spanish, they would go into the house
our house and that's what they would

00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:29.276
speak to my dad in spanish in english
of course they spoke english. But

00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:35.756
what I'm saying is that kids mm some
kids anyway can do and I think all of

00:17:35.789 --> 00:17:41.947
them can if the attitude is is right.
But when you like my sister was

00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:46.907
punished here in school for not
speaking english. Uh so she has a

00:17:46.940 --> 00:17:50.536
different attack on it. She has a
different interesting tack. I mean it

00:17:50.569 --> 00:17:56.157
affected it affected her to this day,
it would mhm Yeah and also it

00:17:56.190 --> 00:18:01.647
resulted in some kids taking a couple
years in first grade. I mean if if

00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:04.816
they had a difficulty learning english
and they weren't taught at all in

00:18:04.849 --> 00:18:10.236
spanish, they would be they could be
held back. It's not necessary. I have

00:18:10.269 --> 00:18:13.766
bad feelings about them. I really do.
I know what you're saying, that's

00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:18.286
what happened. Uh It happened. Yeah. I
interviewed somebody who has been a

00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.377
couple years in first grade. They put
my sister in the dummy class the

00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:26.576
first day she entered school. I don't
want to steal her thunder. But it's

00:18:26.609 --> 00:18:34.157
such a sad story. She's probably the
brightest of the whole bunch and she

00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:39.306
was the first, so she was the
Pathfinder, right?

00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:46.006
And they put her in a role of dummies
and she was there for a week because

00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:50.437
she didn't know english. And at the
end of the week they moved her into

00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:57.417
the smart kids. Now in one week, at
the end of her school year, we have a

00:18:57.450 --> 00:19:04.476
certificate. The shows that she
achieve the highest point average of any

00:19:04.509 --> 00:19:10.407
kid in Wickenburg schools, Grammar and
high school. Mhm. You know, it's

00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:14.796
great. So it had it had to do with a
lot of things while she was

00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:19.637
successful. But the treatment she got,
she's never forgotten that she

00:19:19.670 --> 00:19:23.816
never forgotten how she felt because
she knew she was in a dummy role. Now

00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:27.786
, why do people do that? Why do
teachers do that? Why do schools do at the

00:19:27.819 --> 00:19:34.967
time, by the way, the law was that in
Arizona uh segregated schools. The

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.306
reason why there's a lot of reasons
why they didn't have segregated

00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:43.006
schools here. Number one, a Mexican
man gave the property for the school,

00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:49.917
the first school. And my grandfather
valencia was a board of trustees in

00:19:49.950 --> 00:19:54.726
the vaulter school. The first school
hired the first schoolteacher in

00:19:54.759 --> 00:20:00.967
vulture. You know, they were into it
into the education thing. Presents. I

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:07.407
think so and so maybe that's why we
didn't have to schools in Wickenburg

00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:12.516
because up to the time that Mr Garcia
donated that land, they had

00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:16.187
schooling In this house and that house
and the other house. And it was

00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:21.097
public school numbers, whatever it is,
it was an organized legal school,

00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:25.447
but they didn't allow the Mexican kids
to go to those schools. They were

00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.006
in somebody's house, mostly they were
secretary that way. And that would

00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:36.447
have been, say before 18, 19, maybe my
mother, when she started first

00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:43.687
grade, walked from the ranch to
school, her mother would walk her and that

00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:48.177
went on for a few weeks or maybe a few
months. And then my grandfather

00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.907
built a house in town, a frame
building.

00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:59.776
And during the school year then they
lived in that house in town. And so

00:20:59.809 --> 00:21:03.986
she didn't have to walk anymore. But
they got her here. That's my point.

00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:08.546
My father, during the floods would get
us to school. Uh we were, we just

00:21:08.579 --> 00:21:13.197
could not miss school. That's great.
And even, I guess uh, when you

00:21:13.230 --> 00:21:19.187
accidentally did miss school because
of circumstances, um, you still felt

00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:22.816
like you've done all you could to get
there and that, that was the spirit

00:21:22.849 --> 00:21:30.849
that we grew up? Mhm. Come here and
you went to church. Yes, I mean you

00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:36.677
didn't dare not too, no matter how you
felt, you didn't dare feel not.

00:21:36.710 --> 00:21:42.907
Yeah, we had Uh huh. My grandmother
was one of those that had church at

00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:48.417
home before they built a church here
in 193 And even then after after they

00:21:48.450 --> 00:21:53.076
built the church, they didn't have a
designated priest living here until I

00:21:53.109 --> 00:22:00.207
think the 1940s they were circuit
priests. Uh huh.

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.506
Um

00:22:02.539 --> 00:22:06.306
My grandmother's Ocampos

00:22:06.339 --> 00:22:10.697
next to the last child was the first
one baptized in that new catholic

00:22:10.730 --> 00:22:17.026
church, all the others were taken by
buggy to phoenix to saint mary's and

00:22:17.059 --> 00:22:20.857
that's where they were all baptized,
she didn't wait for the circuit

00:22:20.890 --> 00:22:25.046
priests to come around. They were very
deeply religious people, she and

00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:29.857
her mother and her grandmother, you
know all that that group of people in

00:22:29.890 --> 00:22:34.996
New Mexico, they still it's just great
to listen to them talk about their

00:22:35.029 --> 00:22:40.986
memories. Mhm. Not extended big
extended family that may have, it's real

00:22:41.019 --> 00:22:43.006
nice.

00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:48.137
So you graduated from high school in
30

00:22:48.170 --> 00:22:55.377
Jeez 38 or 39 I guess 39 If you're
born in 19 I was the one, weren't you?

00:22:55.410 --> 00:23:00.907
Uh it would have been about 1939, I
was 17,

00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:06.847
okay. What did you want to do then?
Well I had not taken chemistry and I

00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:13.657
wanted to go to nursing school, but I
was a gad fly in high school. I I

00:23:13.690 --> 00:23:18.187
had to be in everything. I had to do
everything. I was one of the least

00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:22.637
scholarly of my mother's and father's
kids but I had a lot of fun with

00:23:22.670 --> 00:23:28.306
extra curricular stuff and I was
always in all this, had a lot of dramatic

00:23:28.339 --> 00:23:34.076
clubs and a lot of sports and and it
was such a tiny school that if you

00:23:34.109 --> 00:23:39.506
were interested in that you, they
needed you. And I don't think that's

00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:45.207
very often a kid was ostracized. You
know, not chosen to be on this or not

00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:50.526
chosen. I have pictures of all school
plays for instance apparatus and I

00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:55.377
have lied part singing. There are four
of us took a lead part, two boys

00:23:55.410 --> 00:23:59.187
and two girls this high school and the
entire student body is photographed

00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:04.677
there. That was in this Operetta and I
don't remember this by nine but

00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:11.427
maybe I was junior or senior. So
anyway, I needed chemistry and so I

00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:17.226
talked to the, after I graduated, I
was babysitting somebody's kids over

00:24:17.259 --> 00:24:22.147
here while I was not going to stay in
this town and and be a domesticated

00:24:22.180 --> 00:24:24.326
,

00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:30.036
serving to anybody. So I talked to
this biology teacher and I said, look,

00:24:30.069 --> 00:24:34.546
I want to go to nursing school, but I
need chemistry. Okay, come on such

00:24:34.579 --> 00:24:41.276
and such days, such and such hour and
we'll give you a chemistry Take U-

00:24:41.309 --> 00:24:46.417
one semester. That's the way I got my
chemistry after high school uh

00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:49.056
accommodated

00:24:49.089 --> 00:24:57.089
and and so then um I started nursing
school in Phoenix in 191,940.

00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:04.336
Mm So it is, you know, ST joseph's
hospital school of nursing, They had

00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:08.326
two schools of nursing, one at ST
joseph's hospital and one at good

00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:12.607
samaritan. And

00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.907
one time when I got in trouble with
the nuns, they ran their ST Josephs

00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:22.387
school, I was in a lot of trouble with
and they want to know why I was

00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:28.276
even there and I said, well because ST
joseph's has the best reputation

00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:35.407
for turning out good nurses, good
samaritan does not, did they like that?

00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:41.026
I didn't like any of that stuff. But
um and so then they made me recite a

00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:46.217
certain a certain sermon that had been
delivered that morning. They were

00:25:46.250 --> 00:25:51.677
checking up on me. You know, they
really monitored your behavior and you

00:25:51.710 --> 00:25:56.026
had certain religious events, you had
to be present or else because you

00:25:56.059 --> 00:26:00.657
were a rotten example and you know,
all that. And so what I would play

00:26:00.690 --> 00:26:05.117
games with them, see this is me, I
play games with them and I'd hide

00:26:05.150 --> 00:26:08.887
behind maybe a pillar or would sit
behind a pillar. So they think I wasn't

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:13.907
there because I knew that up there in
the bell friend. They were they were

00:26:13.940 --> 00:26:21.940
checking up on his attendance 5:00 AM.
So then she says, well recite the

00:26:22.180 --> 00:26:28.467
sermon, tell me what's inside. I told
her almost her band. She says if I

00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:36.207
could, I would transfer you to good
samaritan today. Okay.

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.857
Yeah. So and when you did this
training did they also they had you work in

00:26:40.890 --> 00:26:46.397
the hospital, right? Oh yes. We got
paid $5 a month and almost every bit

00:26:46.430 --> 00:26:52.177
of that went for missing bedpans or
broken thermometers or something else

00:26:52.210 --> 00:26:57.016
, equipment that you would check out
for patients that you had no control

00:26:57.049 --> 00:27:01.516
over. You know, somebody else had to
return it. Right. And so we were

00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:05.516
charged with them. That's what the $5
was for really. It wasn't a salary.

00:27:05.549 --> 00:27:09.766
Although they called it this is your
spending money. They were very, very

00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:12.707
strict. There's nothing like today. I
mean, I don't think there's a place

00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:18.397
alive. This like uh they change, you
have to do like um washing things

00:27:18.430 --> 00:27:22.897
down to remember talking. Yeah, the
beds and the bed past all that stuff.

00:27:22.930 --> 00:27:27.207
We have to wash everything because it
wasn't plastic. It had to be one.

00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.627
Everything is metal and glass. Uh So
you were doing a lot of that kind of

00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:34.246
manual labor while you were getting
your training. Yes. But we didn't do

00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:41.167
it really until maybe nine months. And
then the younger kids would take

00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:46.476
over that stuff and the beds all that
had to be scrubbed down. It was very

00:27:46.509 --> 00:27:52.947
good. It was a very good school. Um, I
learned, I learned a lot my first

00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:58.986
job after I got out of there. Um they
were very strict but then kids think

00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:04.877
this of no matter what right. I got my
first job here um in the doctors

00:28:04.910 --> 00:28:11.597
office dr Breyer and I had the letter
from his office nurse asking me to

00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:17.697
come and take her job. She wanted out
and he wanted me to come and all

00:28:17.730 --> 00:28:25.730
that stuff. Well so I did and They
paid me, I think it was $128,

00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:32.086
a month, which was rich The nurses in
the hospital here we're getting 60,

00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:38.756
about 60, The teachers were getting
about 55 and it was very low key. So

00:28:38.789 --> 00:28:43.316
there was when I came here there was a
lot of bad feeling among the nurses

00:28:43.349 --> 00:28:51.349
that were hospital people And me the
upstart Torp I was 21 uh

00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:58.717
but I stayed a few months and then I
went to Alamogordo New Mexico and

00:28:58.750 --> 00:29:04.417
took a job there in a civilian clinic
connected to the Air Force and you

00:29:04.450 --> 00:29:09.847
know, they were working on mysterious
things, airplanes and whatever. But

00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:15.776
I worked with the civilian workers.
And then while I was there I applied,

00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:22.546
I sent in my application or to join
the service, the army nurse carr. And

00:29:22.579 --> 00:29:27.967
I think it was following March, I
graduated in september In the following

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.697
March, I enlisted and I got my
commission. So that would have been like 41

00:29:32.730 --> 00:29:35.506
,

00:29:35.539 --> 00:29:42.907
I graduated 43, so it would have been
The spring of 44, but I went in,

00:29:42.940 --> 00:29:48.306
stayed a couple of years. Everything
was over 2.5. Where did you, where I

00:29:48.339 --> 00:29:55.617
spent my whole time in san Antonio
texas. It was a, we called it a

00:29:55.650 --> 00:29:59.627
receiving hospital. They would bring
regional hospital. They would bring

00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:05.256
injured people there that would come
from the West Coast. And these are

00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:07.289
peoplethat