WEBVTT

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 and if there's some things you don't you don't want to speak to, that's

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of course fine too.

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Okay.

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Yeah

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peter will go to the questions that
that you submitted to me. Uh huh. Uh

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there was and these are my own
personal views sure and I'm pretty sure

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that other people will have their own
person of course about some of these

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situations and people

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because excuse me because DNA has has
been here for 40 years, it means

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especially for younger people, you
know, they don't you know, this is a

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lot of these things are new to them.
They weren't they weren't there when

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mrs veronica had that confrontation,
you know with ted Mitchell and

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variety of other things. So I think
your ability to bring a firsthand kind

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of perspective on this is really
important. Okay, uh huh.

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There was a lawyer by the name of
norman logical,

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I didn't know the gentlemen all that
well personally, but I know to some

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degree about his work and what he
tried to do and what he represented and

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norman little

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as I understand neighborhood history,
I was really involved in What was

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going on on the neighborhood way back
in the 40s

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And maybe early 1950s, late 1940s and
he knew some of the leadership on

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the Navajo and was acquainted with
some of the Navajo people that had a

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significant role in the running of the
tribal government. He also knew

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some of the people on the Hopi side
and as I listened to some of these

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individuals and as I read some of the
history of the neighborhood people

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norman little at one time was really

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mhm. Trying to have, working in,
trying to have the Hopi people, the Hopi

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tribal government hire him as their
lawyer. And it never for some reason

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it never really panned out. And it's
ironic that as I understand john boy

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in was also doing the same thing. John
boy Walton is a well known Hopi

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lawyer that handled the the land case
between Navajo and Hopi, john borden

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was also doing the same thing. He came
over to Navajo and knew some of the

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neighborhood leadership just as well.
And the two lawyers were I guess

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jogging for position. Um you know with
these two tribes and john boy in is

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the way anna wanaka would tell it came
to

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Navajo council and was really
interested in being employed by the Navajo

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and the Navajo people didn't really
support that. And the neighborhood

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council rejected

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his offer to become a tribal attorney
for the Navajo nation. And and so as

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soon as he walked out of the council
chambers in neighborhood, he just

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drove right over to the Hopi tribal
council and I told him about what

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happened then they hired him. And so
since that happened then there was no

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I guess other choice, the Navajo
people just had to now deal with norman

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let's tell and because normally it'll
also new sudden about the land

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situation too. And so yeah that's how
norman little as I understand it

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ended up working with the neighborhood
nation And normally tell

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his office was in Washington right.
Even though he was the general counsel

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to the Navajo nation, he really did
not have an officer in window rock. He

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did have

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people that he relied on that was
working for the tribal government and I

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think they were the ones that
established the Navajo legal department and

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norman the town it was individual that
really pushed that. But his main

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office was in Washington D. C. Uh, to
work with those federal agencies to

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work with Congress and to work with
the, the federal government and

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incoming administrations that were
running the federal government. And

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that was fairly typical wasn't it? I
mean there are a lot of lawyers who

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served came out of like that Wilkinson
crayon and marker firm and so forth

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and so on. Boyd in had the advantage
of being relatively close by being in

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Salt Lake city. But this pattern of
they would just come out occasionally.

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But I know like tell argued or
suggested that if the, the Navajo tribal

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council did not step into certain
situations like the, the court system

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and a variety of other things, they
were going to be in real trouble

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because in the spirit of that
termination era, they were the states and

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the local level, we're probably going
to attempt to take charge of things.

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So you see how active the council
became for better for worse in that

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regard. And he certainly from my
reading of it at least, he was pretty

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powerful figure for a number of years.
Eventually, as I remember chairman

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knock I, once he was elected and
little was well, but he was there for a

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long time. Uh, normally the town was
there for a long time and he's

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probably a typical

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general counsel for indian tribe. He
was one of these individuals that was

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really interested in, in the power

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that he would generate for himself on
the Navajo who he was the most

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powerful person for the, the Navajo
nation government. A lot of the things

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that he did, he created it with that
in mind was how would he, how would

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he uh, established certain officers so
that it will make his work a lot

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easier and thereby became a very
powerful individual. And one of the

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things that I think that he created as
a result of that was this concept

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throughout indian country. That when,
when people want to go see the

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chairman, when the people wanted to
see the elected american indian

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leadership,

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Sometimes people get disappointed
because they don't get to see the tribal

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chairs, They don't get to see the
tribal governors or president, but they

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end up having to talk with the, with
the general counsel, the lawyer, the

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non indian lawyers that represent
these tribes and normally tell to me was

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one of those individuals that created
that kind of atmosphere first for

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the Navajo and then eventually you saw
the same thing happening with the

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other american indian tribes. It was
norman little that handled the Navajo

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Hopi case against Sean Boynton. Right.
So there's a lot of history between

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these two powerful, powerful
individual. two powerful lawyers that

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represented the, an indian tribe here
in the southwest, norman little also

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came to every Navajo nation council.
Yes, provided

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and advice to the Navajo nation
council. Whatever the subject was, he was

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, he was, he was always there to

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get an input into the discussion and
uh, he did not necessarily represent

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Navajo individual. And because there
were some Navajo individuals that

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wanted his representation, he just
simply created the neighborhood legal

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department and hire some his own
lawyers that he recruited, put him into

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that office and they said, you go
represent these individuals and they

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want to legal advice and you give it
to them. He had according to him, he

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had to deal with larger issues that
involve the whole Navajo nation and

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this console. And so there were right,
those kinds of activities that he

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promoted. Um, um, the neighborhood
people, he was very involved, wasn't

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there with the early negotiations with
peabody or with some of these other

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oil or coal companies in terms of what
kind of, um, what kind of profit or

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what kind of royalty,

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you know, would come in. I remember
talking with robert young linguist

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years ago and he said, you know, when
mattel thought he had worked out a

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really good deal for the the tribe, he
would come down the, I'll in the

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chambers, he'll be waving a piece of
paper wearing a white suit. He, it

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seems as though from my outsider's
perspective, he, this was hardly unique

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and he was, he really knew how to work
that system and he really, It was a

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very powerful figure, especially in
the 1950s. Yes,

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If you, if you pay attention to some
of the legal activities with lawyers

00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:29.417
related to neighborhood history,
norman little is always somewhere and

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everything that the tribe did, whether
that's leasing mineral

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dealing with the coal companies, oil
companies dealing with all that,

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these kinds of corporations. It was
always normal, let's help that they

00:11:48.850 --> 00:11:56.006
had a big say. So in what the Navajo
nation council did and so he was,

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yeah, he was an entity on the
neighborhood that had to be dealt with, he

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was an institution

00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:14.606
and the neighborhood nation and he

00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:19.967
had certain things that he wanted to
do and to and and he made sure that

00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:25.307
those things that he wanted was done
by the, by the Navajo government.

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Yeah, it was because of that kind of,

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I guess the management of the tribal
government that really got people

00:12:38.750 --> 00:12:42.407
like Raymond Nakai,

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the former neighborhood chairman

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who really started campaigning among
the Navajo code about how powerful

00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.797
this white lawyer is among the
neighborhood people who comes out of

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Washington

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that and that was kind of like a
rallying force for Raymond, our chi to

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use to get elected.

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So it was something that,

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that the Navajo people are back in
those days. Older people are very, very

00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:26.106
familiar with their work. This one
particular lawyer did

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On the never one nation and I believe
it was at that point. Ted Mitchell

00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:40.957
came into the picture because the way
the Navajo people saw the situation

00:13:40.990 --> 00:13:48.077
was, you know, there was politics
going on in the neighborhood. There were

00:13:48.110 --> 00:13:54.417
a lot of discussion about what the
white lawyer I was doing, how he

00:13:54.450 --> 00:13:58.207
represented the neighborhood nation.

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He was so powerful. Well comes right
at that point came along Ted Mitchell

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who was expressing individual rights,
representation of individual

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neighborhoods

00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:20.687
and all that. How he supported civil
rights

00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.907
and promoted

00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:29.516
the freedom to do certain things, the
freedom to worship, whatever you

00:14:29.549 --> 00:14:33.626
want to worship. Ted Mitchell got
involved a lot with the native american

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church and native american insurance
was not popular at the time, norman

00:14:38.659 --> 00:14:45.917
little took exception to all. Mhm have
been the political figure. Raymond

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archive picked that up and also ran
with with that because it was through

00:14:52.419 --> 00:14:57.837
Raymond knock. It was through norman
little's urgent that the Navajo

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council passed a resolution

00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:08.840
saying that yeah, never hope people
should not, should not belong to the

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native american church neighborhood.
People should not practice the,

00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:23.937
the native american religion on the
neighborhood. That was something that

00:15:23.970 --> 00:15:30.236
came out of other other tribes that
came out of somewhere else. And he

00:15:30.269 --> 00:15:35.307
says that you have your own religion
here on the Navajo.

00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:43.340
So that mhm norman little became an
advocate against native american

00:15:43.450 --> 00:15:49.807
church. Well, ted Mitchell came alone
and he said norman battle is wrong,

00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:56.427
You have freedom of religion, just
like anywhere else in America. Uh

00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:02.917
you're free to believe whatever you
want to believe in. And so The right

00:16:02.950 --> 00:16:08.606
immediately, there was a clash between
two lawyers

00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:14.516
on the neighborhood nation that
develop into a huge controversy on the

00:16:14.549 --> 00:16:19.907
Navajo reservation. And so

00:16:19.940 --> 00:16:27.940
Raymond are Chi one the election when
he first ran. Yeah. And when he Ran

00:16:28.820 --> 00:16:36.606
this was in the late 1950s, one of the
first things he did was to fire

00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:41.807
and get rid of normal hotel.

00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:46.766
And I remember there was a huge
controversy because my father was a tribal

00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:53.996
council, like at the time, and my
father took the side of a position that

00:16:54.029 --> 00:16:59.577
was being advocated by Raymond
archive. He aligned himself with Raymond

00:16:59.610 --> 00:17:07.167
archive forces and as a result, they
end up getting rid of hotel. I used

00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:12.246
to go to those council session and as
a young man and I used to just sit

00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:18.167
there and just listen to many of the
debate and lot of the debate revolved

00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:25.697
around civil rights of neighborhood
people. Yeah versus the tribal rights

00:17:25.730 --> 00:17:32.236
or tribal government rights. And to
me, that was so interesting, you've

00:17:32.269 --> 00:17:40.269
got to see mrs veronica To change the
4th? Yeah. Another Yeah. To hear all

00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:47.726
the debate from both sides that was
very, very interested. And anyway, the

00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:55.157
neighborhood nation council end up
fire normal hotel and that was the

00:17:55.190 --> 00:18:01.506
effort of Raymond are kai and his
horses in in the console. And it was

00:18:01.539 --> 00:18:08.097
something that was quite significant
among the Navajo people to see all of

00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:12.006
that. And

00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:19.306
I believe it was subsequent to all of
these events. And DNA came along.

00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:25.506
Yeah. Was really advocating for the
rights of individuals among the people.

00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:32.407
And as a result, you have Navajo bill
of rights. When Raymond came in,

00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:37.437
one of his biggest accomplishment is
to have the Naville council passed a

00:18:37.470 --> 00:18:43.397
neighborhood bill of rights, which is
almost like you're the bill of

00:18:43.430 --> 00:18:49.707
rights that you have in the United
States. And that became the, the tribal

00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:56.137
and that just was something that
Raymond like I wanted to do and have the

00:18:56.170 --> 00:19:04.170
tribal government passed that law and
informed people about what happen.

00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:10.306
He initially was very positive about
DNA legal services as I would call

00:19:10.339 --> 00:19:15.306
over time. There were some issues that
developed became less stuff support

00:19:15.339 --> 00:19:22.536
Yeah, I believe that it was right at
the beginning of DNA people's legal

00:19:22.569 --> 00:19:28.677
services program where Ted Mitchell
also became an advocate of

00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:36.710
neighborhood water rights because what
he saw and what he did was the DNA

00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.107
did a research,

00:19:44.140 --> 00:19:52.140
never hold water rights going back all
the way to decision

00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.387
that was made by the United States
Supreme Court and other subsequent

00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:03.756
court decisions were the courts
indicated that indian tribe has a prior

00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:08.306
water rights above everybody else.

00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:14.887
And Tate Mitchell was also an advocate
of that. And so did the DNA

00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:21.506
people's Legal services program. And
so it was a very, very interesting

00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:28.907
time in the history of the
neighborhood people to see all of these forces

00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:35.226
from, from all angles. Yeah, people
that follow Raymond archive and what

00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:42.207
he was advocated, some Navajo tribal
official following what norman little

00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:49.647
was advocating for and all of these
things clash and and because of what

00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.006
was happening

00:20:52.039 --> 00:21:00.039
on the Navajo nation, there were other
people that also came to light

00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:08.240
one of them is the rise of Peter
Mcdonald because to begin with

00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:18.046
Raymond knock, I was the one that
brought in Peter Mcdonald. Mhm. Back to

00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:25.776
the Navajo nation. Peter Macdonald was
working for, I believe an aircraft

00:21:25.809 --> 00:21:31.677
company as an injury. Thank you sir.
Question Yeah, in California. So

00:21:31.710 --> 00:21:38.937
there, Yeah, right. Raymond archive
needed a lot of help in reorganizing

00:21:38.970 --> 00:21:45.306
the tribal government. So he brought
in Peter Mcdonald's to help him

00:21:45.339 --> 00:21:49.457
reorganize the whole Navajo government
because at that time the Navajo

00:21:49.490 --> 00:21:55.707
government was getting big people
demanded service people, I wanted to

00:21:55.740 --> 00:22:00.907
think things. And so the neighborhood
council also was frustrated with

00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:08.806
much of what was what was going. So
Peter Macdonald came in

00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:16.839
with urgent of Raymond are key to come
and help them And so as a result of

00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:25.457
them doing all of that you have a new
era in the development of the tribal

00:22:25.490 --> 00:22:31.907
government that took place. I believe
it was also right at this point

00:22:31.940 --> 00:22:37.907
where president john f Kennedy got
elected

00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:44.726
and then came out with the war on
poverty program and then the war on

00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:51.506
poverty program develop what they call
officer economic opportunity. And

00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:57.476
that filtered all the way down to
Navajo. Uh huh. The neighborhood wanted

00:22:57.509 --> 00:23:03.707
to, yeah A Navajo wanted to have its
own

00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:06.806
O. E. O. Program

00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:12.107
When they did that then there was a
question of who should run it. Yeah.

00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:15.607
And then Raymond knock I nominated

00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:22.177
Peter Mcdonald to be the individual
that would be responsible for running

00:23:22.210 --> 00:23:30.210
the never office of economic
opportunity. Yeah. And so when that happened

00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:39.707
many many Navajo people became an
employee of the O. N. E. O. Program.

00:23:39.740 --> 00:23:44.717
Some of them were very very popular.
Like the head start program. It met

00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:48.306
jobs for Navajo people.

00:23:48.339 --> 00:23:54.506
It was a program that employed

00:23:54.539 --> 00:24:02.026
individual that we're otherwise not
able to find work on the Navajo and

00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:08.707
then they were doing some good things
too such as the the

00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:15.836
community development program and home
improvement program. People's homes

00:24:15.869 --> 00:24:22.607
were being renovated and some were
building new homes, new houses. Yeah

00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:28.976
those became very very popular with
with Navajo people because it was for

00:24:29.009 --> 00:24:35.726
the first time providing services to
the people. People were feeling the

00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.197
impact of some of those services. And
as a result, Peter Macdonald became

00:24:40.230 --> 00:24:42.506
very popular.

00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:50.539
So from that position he then ran for
the tribal chairmanship against his

00:24:50.740 --> 00:24:56.556
his old friend Raymond, that guy. And
And then I think they ran against

00:24:56.589 --> 00:25:03.707
each other about three times during
the course of the The next 1216 years

00:25:03.740 --> 00:25:11.740
that dominated the political scene.
Nation,

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:19.207
you may want it pass on this question
but or not answered at any time. But

00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:27.240
I was curious about your initial
impressions of Macdonald and you with DNA

00:25:28.670 --> 00:25:33.167
initially under the umbrella of the O
N. E. O, you must have had some

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:38.217
meetings or contacts with him and got
a sense too, that is sort of an

00:25:38.250 --> 00:25:42.306
initial impression of

00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:47.006
I guess the best way to describe that
is that

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:52.607
because of the programs that we were
responsible for

00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:59.316
with my help in the development of DNA
people's legal services and with Mr

00:25:59.349 --> 00:26:06.607
Mcdonald being the head of O N E O.
Yeah,

00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:14.640
those jobs, things that two programs
were were dumond

00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:22.506
force us to work together because

00:26:22.539 --> 00:26:25.907
the program demands.

00:26:25.940 --> 00:26:33.607
My impression was that he was and
able, capable person,

00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.707
an individual that was

00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:45.740
looking out for the interests of the
never hold people back then and he

00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:51.806
wanted to make sure that

00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.707
whatever it is that we were doing,

00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:03.740
who was in the best interests of our
individual clients and he represented

00:27:04.390 --> 00:27:07.107
the

00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.707
the Navajo who nation

00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:18.740
has its young and upcoming leader and
he was always interested in some of

00:27:21.269 --> 00:27:29.269
the things that D. N. A. Was doing in
education and economic development

00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:35.417
since he was the head of the economic
development approach. Mhm. Some of

00:27:35.450 --> 00:27:43.326
the legal issues that was change that
we were trying to emphasize among

00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:49.306
the neighborhood people. So back then

00:27:49.339 --> 00:27:53.407
he supported the legal services
program.

00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:58.667
We needed his support at the time
because the Navajo Nation government was

00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:04.407
trying to cut us off the island
nation. The Navajo tribal council

00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:10.417
controlled by Raymond Arc. I was
passing resolutions saying things about

00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:13.947
the legal services program, what we
shouldn't be doing and why we

00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:19.806
shouldn't do certain things. Well Mr
Mcdonald saw

00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:25.536
things a little differently than the
way the tribal council of it. So he

00:28:25.569 --> 00:28:28.407
came to our defense

00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:33.006
to save the program and the project

00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:38.746
and that kind of force us to work
together as individual representing

00:28:38.779 --> 00:28:43.207
those two important entities on the
Navajo nation.

00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.556
You weren't entirely surprised that he
decided to run for the chairman's

00:28:46.589 --> 00:28:54.589
position. You weren't entirely
surprised that he sought the chairmanship.

00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:59.707
I wasn't I was not surprised.

00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:01.907
Oh

00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:08.407
because because when you get into
those kinds of position, you know the

00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:14.336
natural evolution is to go through
that kind of process that will propel

00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:21.907
you to write the chairmanship of the
neighborhood nation. And so

00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:25.407
that was something

00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:30.607
I don't know if he did that by design.
I wonder what saving he probably

00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:38.640
did. Yeah and I was not at all
surprised. He became the tribal chair

00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:48.907
South the position very aggressively.
Yes. Mhm.

00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:55.907
Hello

00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:58.806
his uh

00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:04.387
did I tell you the story about going
back to Dartmouth? Talk about sort of

00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:07.746
take a break for a second. Um I had
been teaching at the University of

00:30:07.779 --> 00:30:10.986
Wyoming for a little while and they
have, we have an endless summer and

00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:14.286
they have an endless winter. And this
friend of mine in Dartmouth said,

00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:17.387
well it's been almost a native
american cities program. And why don't you

00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:23.107
come out and talk about the first two
terms of Mcdonald's administration?

00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:26.276
So because he said, I know you're
working on more general Navajo history,

00:30:26.309 --> 00:30:30.907
but this is a number of Navajo
students at Dartmouth and number of indian

00:30:30.940 --> 00:30:33.707
students, they find that's really
interesting for you do that. And I said

00:30:33.740 --> 00:30:38.157
sure I'll do that. I need to think
about it very much. It's good. Mcdonald

00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:41.776
is coming also to give the keynote
address and he's going to comment on

00:30:41.809 --> 00:30:47.437
your talk and You can talk for a half
an hour and then he'll talk for 15

00:30:47.470 --> 00:30:51.806
minutes. So I have an hour of
questions. Well, you know, this is the kind

00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.937
of situation historians try not to get
into, But I went back there and I

00:30:56.970 --> 00:31:00.677
gave my talk for 30 minutes and he got
up and he said, well he thought the

00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:02.806
,

00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:08.407
oh the things I had praised shows
showed that I was pretty perceptive guy

00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:12.917
on some topics, but things I had
criticized, he was just glad to be there

00:31:12.950 --> 00:31:15.897
to set the record straight and explain
how I had not quite understood

00:31:15.930 --> 00:31:19.457
these properly. And he talked for
instead of 15 minutes. He talked for the

00:31:19.490 --> 00:31:25.516
remaining 45 minutes. And so you have
any questions at all. But the Navajo

00:31:25.549 --> 00:31:28.546
students were just delighted with all
this because you know, they were

00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:35.556
interested in it. Michael Dorris, the
anthropologist and author was chair

00:31:35.589 --> 00:31:38.417
of the native american station at that
time. And I still see his this big

00:31:38.450 --> 00:31:42.776
grin on his face coming after shake my
hand after the talk. And and it was

00:31:42.809 --> 00:31:47.897
funny because before I went back east
of the talk, I started getting phone

00:31:47.930 --> 00:31:52.417
calls from people I'd known when I was
teaching at the college phone rings

00:31:52.450 --> 00:31:57.637
and it's uh, a little blue house,
she's working as a secretary. She says,

00:31:57.670 --> 00:32:00.236
well, we thought you might, it might
be helpful for you to have some of

00:32:00.269 --> 00:32:04.457
the more, you know, more information
about. Um, Mr Mcdonald's

00:32:04.490 --> 00:32:08.657
accomplishments then and a day or two
later, I get a call Larry Rousseau.

00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:14.746
I said, I heard from a long time.
Well, I don't see it as well. He says,

00:32:14.779 --> 00:32:17.806
we've looked over the initial version
because they wanted to see my talk

00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.967
beforehand, you know, and I said, I'll
give you a rough version. He said,

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.746
well, I think you could use a little
more information, you know? And so

00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:30.907
they were just like the phone kept
ringing and talking to these people and

00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:33.306
it was,

00:32:33.339 --> 00:32:36.717
you know, I can look back on it and
sort of smile about it. But at the

00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:41.746
time I thought, boy, this is really
putting me to the test here in terms

00:32:41.779 --> 00:32:44.667
of what I'm going to say. And, you
know, when I look back on those first

00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:49.326
two terms, especially the first term,
you know, I was living On novel at

00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:55.226
that time when MacDonald was 1st
elected. And in a number of areas, you

00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:58.697
know, talking to other people thinking
about it. It seemed like he really

00:32:58.730 --> 00:33:04.907
was doing some good things. You know,
there was was and he was the first

00:33:04.940 --> 00:33:10.377
person really to have had a sort of
combination of life experiences and

00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:14.677
education and so on and so on. So
there's really important. But of course

00:33:14.710 --> 00:33:18.907
, as time went on then the picture got
more complicated for variety of

00:33:18.940 --> 00:33:23.397
reasons, then assessing, you know,
what was his father, his responsibility

00:33:23.430 --> 00:33:31.430
, you know, more difficult, but mhm.
It's a, you know, even though Navajo

00:33:31.809 --> 00:33:39.707
is much bigger than all the other
indian nations, think it's still

00:33:39.740 --> 00:33:44.457
operates in many of the same ways,
which is to say. Yeah, very strong

00:33:44.490 --> 00:33:48.826
feelings about, oh, the chairman's
position. Very strong feelings about

00:33:48.859 --> 00:33:52.086
though, what's going on at the chapter
level. Very strong feelings, what's

00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:58.506
going on in, yeah, Window Rock and

00:33:58.539 --> 00:34:03.306
very complicated time and

00:34:03.339 --> 00:34:09.577
it remains, I think a fascinating time
to look back Into the 70s in the

00:34:09.610 --> 00:34:16.006
early 80s. Yeah. You know, you you
entered the picture and

00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:21.057
I think future historians will
continue to see those those times. And

00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:25.816
you're you're you were chairman and
President being really fundamentally

00:34:25.849 --> 00:34:33.606
important time soon. I would assume
that looking back on it,

00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:38.396
he must for the most part feel very
good about how you conduct yourself

00:34:38.429 --> 00:34:41.907
and how you represented the
nomination.

00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:46.706
But you know, the

00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:50.907
I think a lot of people feel that

00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:55.316
whether they supported Macdonald or
supported you, that they realize that

00:34:55.349 --> 00:35:01.637
you both we're strong individuals who
have strong feelings about past,

00:35:01.670 --> 00:35:06.407
present future nomination. And

00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:12.006
mhm some people have said to me, there
has not been anybody who stepped in

00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:19.387
with that degree of them power and
determination since then. Do you miss

00:35:19.420 --> 00:35:21.506
anything

00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:27.907
that kind of do I miss being I mean,
it's not totally left the scene, but

00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:32.606
you're not on the council floor every
day. And you miss that kind of

00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:40.236
engagement fighting as well. You know,
Peter, I I don't really miss all of

00:35:40.269 --> 00:35:44.296
that. But I missed the Navajo people.
There's a there's a difference

00:35:44.329 --> 00:35:52.329
between the two and uh I love my work.
I love what I do.

00:35:55.739 --> 00:36:00.407
It's just one of those things where I
guess each individual has certain

00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:06.146
chemistry about them and when you get
into something, you know, that's

00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:11.197
what you want to do and that's what
you enjoy doing, what you love to do

00:36:11.230 --> 00:36:14.896
and for me

00:36:14.929 --> 00:36:22.929
what I am involved in and what I do
now A. S. U. The I am just cut out

00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:28.197
a terrific job and

00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:33.907
and it agrees with me, I don't feel
any pressure from anybody. I'm relaxed

00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:41.497
and I really love my family. I enjoy
being with my grandchildren.

00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:48.227
And it's just uh it's just really
good. It's just good for the spirit,

00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:50.706
good for

00:36:50.739 --> 00:36:57.896
my my own personal emotions and
satisfaction.

00:36:57.929 --> 00:37:03.177
But being a neighborhood leader, being
in that saddle, officially being in

00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:10.097
the president or the chairman
position. That that was

00:37:10.130 --> 00:37:17.756
very stressful every day. Yeah. You
never knew what was going to come up

00:37:17.789 --> 00:37:21.606
and Mhm I thought about, I thought
about you in conjunction with

00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:28.316
Washington. Did you see that turquoise
Rose? Did you see that? They showed

00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:35.956
it last week. But it made me think
about the things people no tell me that

00:37:35.989 --> 00:37:41.477
they miss you know when they're down
here and one of them clearly was the

00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:45.796
way in which the family can work
together. And I love this older woman who

00:37:45.829 --> 00:37:50.997
played the grandmother in this film
because you know, you have this

00:37:51.030 --> 00:37:55.706
beautiful young woman was out there
with him and with her and him, you

00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:58.876
know, start raining and she sees this
little dog out in the rain, you know

00:37:58.909 --> 00:38:02.657
, and goes out and brings it in and
five seconds later grandma who brought

00:38:02.690 --> 00:38:09.206
that dog in the house, you know, all
those things and and it made me

00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:13.907
realize, you know, as an outsider but
maybe understand again why people

00:38:13.940 --> 00:38:19.876
miss, you know, yeah, that country and
those people and the way the family

00:38:19.909 --> 00:38:26.586
works and all the rest of it. Well

00:38:26.619 --> 00:38:31.296
can we look at the dates some more?
Yes, we can't. Let me tell you what my

00:38:31.329 --> 00:38:39.329
, what my schedule is. Okay. Uh huh.
Next week I'm going to be up on the

00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:43.586
neighborhood okay all week.

00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:48.086
And then the following week on
Wednesday

00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:54.026
I'll be an au I'll come back on
thursday and friday. It will be the

00:38:54.059 --> 00:39:02.059
following week to that. I think that's
october

00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:06.586
let's see.

00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:09.586
Yeah,

00:39:09.619 --> 00:39:16.186
Let's see. Their fourth is Friday. I
think that's right Saturday is five

00:39:16.219 --> 00:39:20.947
7th during the week of October seven.
You want to have it on Wednesday

00:39:20.980 --> 00:39:24.436
again? Let me I'll check my schedule
too. But I think that would be fine

00:39:24.469 --> 00:39:28.887
and I'm going to be gone as it happens
that

00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:35.546
some of that time too. So but um So
this would be October seven that week

00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:38.416
. I will double check and get right
back to you. But I think that is good

00:39:38.449 --> 00:39:42.097
. I think that would work as well and
I know where in the world you get

00:39:42.130 --> 00:39:45.086
this. Mhm

00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:48.787
bought it somewhere. I wanted to show
it to you probably haven't seen a

00:39:48.820 --> 00:39:56.467
coffee. I know that I was the
executive director if you want to borrow it

00:39:56.500 --> 00:40:00.887
and maybe jenny could copy it or
something, give it back to me but it's

00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.486
really interesting to, you know, look
it's like this. I picked up, you

00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:11.206
know you were talking about the trying
to um this is through roemer, but

00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:16.387
how they were trying to educate the
students about how the law works. So

00:40:16.420 --> 00:40:24.420
yeah, I think these kind of documents
are really important.

00:40:29.210 --> 00:40:33.077
Oh this is great.

00:40:33.110 --> 00:40:37.767
I was thinking that was one thing
maybe you could, let's have, let me talk

00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:42.706
about this. Yeah, that's what I was
going to say. Yeah you can. Yeah I

00:40:42.739 --> 00:40:45.396
think because I think that was
important. I mean it obviously was

00:40:45.429 --> 00:40:53.276
important. Would I think that'd be
good if you could talk to them.

00:40:53.309 --> 00:40:57.727
Yeah let me let me maybe and uh this
will be our next session. Why not?

00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:05.760
Okay, that sounds good.

00:41:05.989 --> 00:41:13.989
I'm trying hard not to interrupt you
and I hope I'm doing okay with

00:41:15.510 --> 00:41:23.510
dan Vicente. He's he's still there.

00:41:53.210 --> 00:42:01.210
Good.

00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:25.666
Lorraine Bennett says the she is now

00:42:25.699 --> 00:42:30.887
uh member of the Supreme Court.
Really? Uh

00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:38.920
huh. She was just a college student.
Yeah,

00:42:47.500 --> 00:42:53.796
good. Okay what do we do that? I want
to go over and uh uh this morning at

00:42:53.829 --> 00:42:58.967
9:30 I have Labriola

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:02.967
they want me to do

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:09.456
like an ad about promoting their
center promotion. So I came over at nine

00:43:09.489 --> 00:43:13.967
so we did that and now

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:18.267
there people

00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:24.106
construction and indian country wants
me to do an ad on Katie and okay so

00:43:24.139 --> 00:43:29.467
I have to go over to the studio,

00:43:29.500 --> 00:43:35.436
thank you so much for the for For the
money. You're the first kid arrives

00:43:35.469 --> 00:43:42.157
today at two Today at 2:00. He's
coming over with his father. We're going

00:43:42.190 --> 00:43:46.477
to I'm going to organize the students
will. That's great. That's wonderful.

00:43:46.510 --> 00:43:50.166
That's wonderful. Good for you. He
must have been this guy that's coming.

00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:58.199
His name is Jordan's begay. He must
have been good boyfriend. Lady who

00:43:58.219 --> 00:44:05.997
got killed. Yeah, because he's he says
I can't I can't go to school down

00:44:06.030 --> 00:44:14.030
there. I can't continue to come down
elevator and note that there was her.

00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:21.856
Yeah. He said I just want to transfer.
So he's the first kid. Yeah.

00:44:21.889 --> 00:44:28.489
That's coming today. Okay. Well, I
wish you appreciate it. Sure, course.

00:44:28.489 --> 00:44:33.637
Yeah. And then the other kids will
probably follow. And

00:44:33.670 --> 00:44:37.217
I'm going to go down there pick up all
that. They're being alone and

00:44:37.250 --> 00:44:43.157
because the others don't, they all
don't have cars, Transportation

00:44:43.190 --> 00:44:45.256
boy.

00:44:45.289 --> 00:44:51.856
Yeah. Okay, peter. Okay, thank you.

00:44:51.889 --> 00:44:57.657
Just call if you haven't I'm going to
keep Wednesday

00:44:57.690 --> 00:45:04.546
of that week. I think it's the second
week in the second week in october

00:45:04.579 --> 00:45:11.256
right. That sounds this thing is still
on. Yeah,

00:45:11.289 --> 00:45:14.956
sure you turn it off.

00:45:14.989 --> 00:45:20.456
Think it's all right. Yeah.

00:45:20.489 --> 00:45:28.489
Yeah.

00:45:42.590 --> 00:45:46.489
And says stop. Yeah.Mhm