WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.797 I didn't. Okay. Yeah you're all set to go so you know if you need 00:00:04.830 --> 00:00:11.707 anything Karen took to use this one for sure. 00:00:11.740 --> 00:00:17.107 Mhm. 00:00:17.140 --> 00:00:20.407 Good. 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:25.407 Oh 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:33.107 here are some things we might talk about in connection with the um Opie is 00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:40.906 in the native american church. Um If any of those seem worthwhile, how 00:00:40.939 --> 00:00:48.006 what I thought would help also would be if if you wouldn't mind sort of 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:52.126 introducing a few of these people in a little more detail, a little more 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:58.607 information or characters of like mr Sidney, just the kind of person he is 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:04.206 and his willingness to meet you part way at least on some of these matters. 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:09.007 Yeah. The struggle to be chairman of the Hopi tribe at any time. It seems 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.917 like the government doesn't seem to be very well accepted there by a lot 00:01:11.950 --> 00:01:18.757 of people. But anyway I thought we could you might want to speak to some 00:01:18.790 --> 00:01:22.186 of these points you already have to some extent but it might just round it 00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:26.206 out a little bit and then if we make our way through that and still have a 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:33.286 few more minutes, I've got a couple of other things jotted down also. Okay 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:38.887 okay well let me say this for the recording, this is Peter Iversen 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:45.647 speaking again where the Doctor Peterson's are, this is june of 2010 and 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:52.296 we're going to begin by talking about two major issues during his life and 00:01:52.329 --> 00:01:59.296 political career. One of them is the um the relationship between the Hopis 00:01:59.329 --> 00:02:03.406 and Navajos of a variety of matters and the other is about the native 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:07.906 american church. A church that was, that originated outside of Navajo 00:02:07.939 --> 00:02:12.397 country and Navajo culture but became increasingly incorporated into 00:02:12.430 --> 00:02:17.406 Navajo life as time went on. 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:22.207 I thought maybe we could start by talking a little bit about mr Ivan 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:29.036 Sydney and your relationship with Hammond with the Hopi people. I remember 00:02:29.069 --> 00:02:34.427 that that was you were quite willing to drive your time honored pickup 00:02:34.460 --> 00:02:38.237 truck down to talk with him. And and he was distinctive also in his 00:02:38.270 --> 00:02:44.446 willingness to try to find a way to um build better relations and to 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:52.106 understand each side of this long standing disagreement. 00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:58.476 I've been sitting here, went to uh, phoenix indian school. Uh, he was in 00:02:58.509 --> 00:03:06.509 back of me maybe uh, a couple of years, maybe even three years. And I got 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:15.979 to know him some back then and then subsequent to both of us leaving 00:03:16.650 --> 00:03:24.650 phoenix indian school. Our path cross here and there periodically with him 00:03:24.949 --> 00:03:32.949 as a police officer and then me working at DNA people's legal services 00:03:33.139 --> 00:03:41.139 where, you know, I was contacted by Navajo people who were incarcerated on 00:03:41.889 --> 00:03:49.889 some occasion uh, in Hopi courts and by the Hopi uh police. And because of 00:03:52.500 --> 00:04:00.500 the work that DNA must do in protecting our clients is uh, uh, rights and 00:04:02.050 --> 00:04:08.837 all of that. Uh, we, we were able to kind of uh, maybe uh, see each other 00:04:08.870 --> 00:04:16.496 every once in a while and I liked him with dead, uh, his demeanor and his 00:04:16.529 --> 00:04:24.529 openness to things, suggestions and and all of that as a result of my uh 00:04:25.310 --> 00:04:32.986 being acquainted with him. Then I got to know his family, his wife. It was 00:04:33.019 --> 00:04:39.916 one of those individuals that was very cordial, pleasant individual. And 00:04:39.949 --> 00:04:47.949 Iran was very dedicated to the Hopi people Hopi culture and she was also 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:57.687 dedicated to the work that Ivan was doing. And so I I got to know them uh 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:05.720 fairly well even prior to the election. And uh and then when I came to A S. 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:13.176 U. Uh their daughter uh went to school here at A. S. U. And was a student 00:05:13.209 --> 00:05:21.209 at A S. U. West and I had some conversations with her and on some occasion 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:30.327 counseled with her and she approached me seeking some explanation on 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:38.360 issues and um and maybe even seeking help from the university. And so I 00:05:38.970 --> 00:05:46.970 also know his uh boys, the Children that he was very close to and maybe 00:05:49.329 --> 00:05:55.777 the Children of his own relatives. And so he was one of those individuals 00:05:55.810 --> 00:06:03.207 that was very important in my life. And 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:11.240 when I was uh prepared to run for the neighborhood nation chairman 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:19.339 Back in 1982, he came to my announcement at Low mountain sometimes in 00:06:20.019 --> 00:06:23.806 january 1982. 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:31.486 And I remember that day it was it had snowed the night before and we were 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:39.519 kind of concerned about the snow and the mud and all of that. And uh the 00:06:39.740 --> 00:06:44.916 cold air coming in from the north, it looked like it was going to bring in 00:06:44.949 --> 00:06:50.717 some more snow and we were concerned about the people come into low 00:06:50.750 --> 00:06:56.596 mountain and that we may not have that many people come in. But we were 00:06:56.629 --> 00:07:02.877 surprised. I was completely taken by over 1,000,000 people showing up at 00:07:02.910 --> 00:07:09.676 that open in uh announcement and in the crowd was, I'm in Sydney and some 00:07:09.709 --> 00:07:16.296 of the council delegates from the Hopi Nation and they were there to 00:07:16.329 --> 00:07:22.976 observe and to get acquainted with people. And they were, because they 00:07:23.009 --> 00:07:31.009 were people that came from Plaka and Palanka in Low Mountain is Maybe some 00:07:32.769 --> 00:07:38.207 10, 12 miles apart. And, and many of the Hopi people who went to Kings 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:44.846 Canyon, uh, store and trading post and many of them also went to Kings 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:52.527 Canyon boarding school, as did the Navajo. And so they knew each other 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:57.877 from the past, going to school together and meeting each other the trading 00:07:57.910 --> 00:08:04.856 post. And so, uh, he knew some Navajo families and the people knew him. So 00:08:04.889 --> 00:08:12.707 it was kind of just natural that he came to uh, My announcement back in 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:20.740 1982, I guess some political adverse at political advisors from a distance 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:30.040 away from ah low mountain and in that vicinity. They thought it was all 00:08:30.269 --> 00:08:35.476 constructed in such a way that this would happen and it would have a major 00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:41.307 political impact because at the time, the Hopi Nation was having a, a 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:48.967 rough time at least getting the attention of the Navajo people. So I guess 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:53.746 generally people thought that it was all orchestrated for political reason 00:08:53.779 --> 00:09:00.657 , but what they don't know is that it was just a natural thing for for 00:09:00.690 --> 00:09:07.457 that to happen because they were neighbors. And uh and it's one of those 00:09:07.490 --> 00:09:13.276 things when you're a friend of someone, you a major event is taking place 00:09:13.309 --> 00:09:20.096 in your community, you go visit, greet and you converse with them. And so 00:09:20.129 --> 00:09:26.126 that's basically uh what happened in our relationship has been very 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.967 cordial right from the beginning. Of course, people know that during my 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:37.317 inauguration, we uh invited him and he was there at the inauguration 00:09:37.350 --> 00:09:44.457 ceremony, participating in all of the uh events and ceremonies that took 00:09:44.490 --> 00:09:52.490 place. And so that was kind of a relationship that I had with him. My 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:59.957 impression about the Hopi government is that it's struggled some to be 00:09:59.990 --> 00:10:04.376 accepted and to be representative of the people. And that that ongoing 00:10:04.409 --> 00:10:07.307 difficulty, I think there's a period of some years where it did not meet 00:10:07.340 --> 00:10:15.207 at all or very rarely. Um and I wondered about Mr Sidney's efforts being 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:20.106 hindered somewhat by that difficulty. 00:10:20.139 --> 00:10:28.139 Well, when I looked at the Hopi situation now, this is uh 28 10. And what 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:35.557 has happened, let's say the last two or three years especially, and it's 00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:40.567 one of those situations where I think most of the indian people go is 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:48.106 going through what they're going through, which is that to some degree, 00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:54.266 many of the Hopi people still believe in the traditional old ways and they 00:10:54.299 --> 00:11:02.299 want to maintain some of those qualities uh that tradition brings on and 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:09.386 that the tradition uh that uh the Hopi people as they know their own 00:11:09.419 --> 00:11:13.606 tradition, they still want to continue living that. And then you have on 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:21.639 the other side, you have people who are progressive, maybe some might 00:11:21.809 --> 00:11:29.467 label them that way. Uh they're a little more uh modern in in their 00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:37.500 outlook outlook on life and maybe uh in a political setting. And so if you 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:43.907 put those two together, the old and the new, the traditional and the new, 00:11:43.940 --> 00:11:51.717 you will always have some degree of contention and uh and there will be 00:11:51.750 --> 00:11:57.787 some spirited discussion that takes place between the two parties. And so 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:04.606 that's no different anywhere else. Uh even in the United States, we're 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:09.866 experiencing that right now. Uh people, uh some, some groups of people 00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:16.907 believe in certain uh political persuasions or situation and others may 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:23.596 may disagree and democracy in in our country promotes that and it just so 00:12:23.629 --> 00:12:29.717 happened that among the indian people in indian country, you have the, you 00:12:29.750 --> 00:12:36.717 know, the modern uh concept that sets in because of the school in that the 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:42.746 indian people go to and uh and then you have the traditionalist continuing 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:49.496 to live in a traditional way. Uh neither is is bad. Uh I think people just 00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:56.057 need to understand it and the Hopi people are having that uh discussion 00:12:56.090 --> 00:13:02.967 right now. Um um among the community members, the villages and they have 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:11.000 their their own uh government at the local village level. Uh and then they 00:13:11.059 --> 00:13:19.059 also have a centralized government and they are trying to make things work 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:25.687 uh so that the, the government is responsive to the wishes of perhaps 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:29.886 maybe the villages and some of the local people and that's going to take 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:37.919 time uh to understand clearly what that all means to the future of the 00:13:39.820 --> 00:13:47.207 Hopi nation personally. I just wish them well and and uh and then hope for 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:53.366 the best because uh they were just like any american indian tribes, small 00:13:53.399 --> 00:14:00.596 groups, small government and they are going through those uh trying times 00:14:00.629 --> 00:14:05.957 right now. And uh the Navajo, on the other hand, is also going through the 00:14:05.990 --> 00:14:10.746 same process. There's a lot of questions about the way the Navajo 00:14:10.779 --> 00:14:15.667 government is set up. There's a lot of questions about the illegal 00:14:15.700 --> 00:14:22.667 activities of tribal government officials and you know, how their 00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:27.407 constituents are not a 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:34.447 green with perhaps some of the demands that they put on there. Tribal 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:40.707 council delegate. And so that kind of a discussion is taking place is 00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:46.236 really about accountability, where they like to see the council delegates 00:14:46.269 --> 00:14:50.606 being accountable for anything that they do and everything that they do. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:55.837 And so it we're having the same kind of a problem then, if you look at in 00:14:55.870 --> 00:14:59.447 the state of Arizona here in the southwest, you have the patches that are 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:07.106 going through the same uh, process. And uh, and, and uh, basically that 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:13.726 almost the same issue and uh, the economic hard times right now in the 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.307 year two, Uh, 00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:24.157 2010 isn't helpful. It just puts a lot of stress on the tribal government. 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:29.567 And I think a lot of the indian people are, are feeling that and uh, it 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:35.447 certainly has filtered down to Hopi Navajo apaches and other tribes here 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:43.287 in State of Arizona was thinking about that getting ready for our visit. 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.496 And I think one of the things as an outsider that occurs to me and occurs 00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:52.297 to some others is that the declining proficiency in the Navajo language 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:55.537 sometimes or the Hopi language on the part of some of the younger people 00:15:55.570 --> 00:16:00.067 has made it these discussions, which were already difficult, even if 00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:03.927 everybody does speak the same language even more complicated perhaps in 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.407 that regard. But I wondered if you could sort of sort of step aside here 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:13.327 use that segue. And you could tell us a little about the changes in Navajo 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:19.016 political, the council structure and chapter relationships that have 00:16:19.049 --> 00:16:25.236 occurred really quite recently and our ongoing issues for the Navajo 00:16:25.269 --> 00:16:31.907 people today, wasn't there a a vote on 00:16:31.940 --> 00:16:38.116 revising how the council delegates were put together, We're going to 00:16:38.149 --> 00:16:43.386 reduce the number of council delegates well with the neighborhood 00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:51.419 situation. Uh, it's an issue between the office of the president and the 00:16:53.500 --> 00:17:01.500 council And we have 88 member council elected by the local people within 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:10.107 those precincts throughout the Navajo nation. And uh they have certain 00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:13.006 powers responsibilities 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:20.796 uh as a council delegate and they're fully exercising those uh Powers that 00:17:20.829 --> 00:17:27.867 have been given to them by the title, two amendments. And on the other 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:35.900 hand, the office of the President is questioning some of those uh powers 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:44.236 and perhaps even the exercise, you know, of those powers and the 00:17:44.269 --> 00:17:52.269 responsibilities. And that's the uh discussion between the two entities. 00:17:53.369 --> 00:18:00.986 Uh that led to this whole idea of trying to reduce the Neighborhood Nation 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:09.019 Council from 88 - 24. And as I understand it back several years, uh 00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:17.217 several years ago, uh huh. The neighborhood nation had voted on tribal 00:18:17.250 --> 00:18:25.250 government reform to reduce the 88 All the way down to 24 in that voting. 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:32.217 The Navajo people were given certain numbers uh when was 88 and I think 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:38.246 the other one was 48 or 44 or something like that. And then 24 And the 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:43.957 Navajo through referendum vote, chose the 24. But then the council came 00:18:43.990 --> 00:18:50.036 back because they had the power to uh to discuss those kinds of situations 00:18:50.069 --> 00:18:55.647 in their own council meeting. They came back and they said that they had 00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:01.397 to have a supermajority which meant that each at each of the chapter 00:19:01.430 --> 00:19:08.546 houses, There has to be majority that went for the 24. And and they 00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:16.579 therefore discarded the the simple majority. and although the 24 Council 00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:25.197 delegate uh membership had one during that year, the Naval Council still 00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:32.417 did not accept that. And because they their their lawyer advised them that 00:19:32.450 --> 00:19:38.476 there had to be a super majority. And so uh this time around In the year 00:19:38.509 --> 00:19:45.236 2010, the president essentially did the same thing and it was a replay of 00:19:45.269 --> 00:19:51.097 what happened back back then. And yes, and it was just a simple replay. 00:19:51.130 --> 00:19:58.707 But to have the rules also be decided first and which was that there would 00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:04.226 be a simple majority, would would have precedence over anything else. And 00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:09.566 so uh that that's what happened and as a result, Majority of the 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:16.776 neighbourhood people voted for the 24. And uh and that raised a lot a lot 00:20:16.809 --> 00:20:22.897 of question. It was uh and i opener for political observers away from the 00:20:22.930 --> 00:20:30.930 neighborhood and and even on on the neighborhood nation. And that the 24 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:36.857 uh council, that we get a suggestion of having 24 council delegate one 00:20:36.890 --> 00:20:44.197 over Uh the the 88. The council fought very hard to maintain the 88 and 00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:52.086 but the local people disagree now, subsequent to all of that. Uh then came 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:58.197 uh Uh this whole idea about how do you how do you then reapportion those 00:20:58.230 --> 00:21:06.230 24 seats. And so that was left out in the open, clearly the council's 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:16.910 responsibility was to uh overlooked at And and then maybe come out with 00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:23.847 some kind of a real portion through the local election office, election 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:30.647 administration. And but the president kind of beat them to the punch 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:36.556 because he was already working on some reapportionment plan, several 00:21:36.589 --> 00:21:40.796 reapportionment plan. And he took those reapportionment plan throughout 00:21:40.829 --> 00:21:46.407 the main chapters, agency governments on the neighborhood nation and have 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:51.147 people look at it and discuss the reapportionment plan. And there was one 00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:57.167 of one or two or even three that they liked from the local area. And so 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:03.306 what he did is that he just took those two or 3 that people like and then 00:22:03.339 --> 00:22:09.617 uh came back together with his administration and they Presented one plan 00:22:09.650 --> 00:22:16.637 to the election office and then the election officer uh agreed with the 00:22:16.670 --> 00:22:21.586 plan and they approved the plan in terms of how the reapportionment 00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:28.506 throughout the neighborhood notion was to be uh drawing those uh lines. 00:22:28.539 --> 00:22:36.539 And so it it was something that, you know, very controversial and 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:46.440 the President couldn't couldn't do that alone uh and he had to go to court 00:22:46.539 --> 00:22:53.786 and uh and challenged some of the position that was uh taken by the 00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:58.917 council. And then the council did the same thing. They didn't fully agree 00:22:58.950 --> 00:23:06.046 with what the President was doing. And so the courts had to Again bailout 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:11.986 the Navajo government as they did in 1989. And when the chairman at that 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:16.967 time was put on administrative leave And in this situation, the year 2010 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:22.226 , the same thing happened, it was a tribal court, it was never the 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:28.516 nation's Supreme Court that that came out and basically saved the never 00:23:28.549 --> 00:23:34.967 who government from a complete chaos. And when we were put in the 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:40.657 neighborhood Supreme Court together Way back in 1984, 00:23:40.690 --> 00:23:46.447 beginning 1983 and 84, uh we we thought about that, we discussed all that 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:54.046 , those kinds of situations and that we didn't want to see it again when 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:59.006 you have people that are club and one another and they're hurting each 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:03.697 other, you don't want to ever see and revisit those kinds of scenes. And 00:24:03.730 --> 00:24:08.326 so because of that, it was important that we created a uh neighborhood 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:13.316 nations Supreme Court where they would take on some of those issues. And 00:24:13.349 --> 00:24:19.506 so I was I was very proud uh the day that now the Nation's Supreme Court 00:24:19.539 --> 00:24:24.647 made those those rulings because it they set the record straight, they 00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:31.607 look at it the in a legal way, in a very uh independent 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:39.640 uh review what was happening. And so we are now at a point where people 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:48.160 are preparing uh and in some cases running for those 24 seats uh that was 00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:53.597 announced last week. And so that's where the Navajo nation is right now, 00:24:53.630 --> 00:25:01.536 there will be a uh Primary election as I understand it on 24 August this 00:25:01.569 --> 00:25:07.597 year. And then uh general election will be on November 2nd And then we'll 00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:14.516 have a new 24 uh council delegates ready to be seated and taking oath of 00:25:14.549 --> 00:25:21.607 august at the inauguration in the middle of january uh 2011. And so that 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:29.107 was never hold people coming together putting pressure on the government 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:36.076 because never what people were just tired of all of the publicity 00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:42.226 surrounding individual council delegates and how they were misleading the 00:25:42.259 --> 00:25:47.006 people, how they were really uh 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:53.657 operating without any kind of uh strict accountability to the Navajo 00:25:53.690 --> 00:26:00.467 people. There were a lot of uh controversy over the manner in which they 00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:06.506 use uh Neverhood people's money in many cases to take care of their own 00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:11.647 personal things. And uh and so they didn't like, they didn't like that, 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:18.566 they got tired of, of all of that. And uh and because of that, I think 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:24.826 they did what they did, which was 88 is just too many. And uh and there's 00:26:24.859 --> 00:26:32.859 no magic thing to the number 88. And it was just through all these years, 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:39.097 It got to that number, but there's nothing magic about 88. There's also 00:26:39.130 --> 00:26:44.197 nothing really magic about the 20 for either. And what the novel people 00:26:44.230 --> 00:26:50.647 really uh in essence thought was maybe if there's less of them, uh there 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:58.680 wouldn't be all this uh uh you know, uh activities uh 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:04.717 taking place within the neighborhood council. So I think that was that was 00:27:04.750 --> 00:27:09.127 the overriding factor that caused them to vote like the way they didn't 00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:14.377 come in To reduce the council to 24. There's been some expression of 00:27:14.410 --> 00:27:20.207 concern on the part of some Navajo people that, that with the reduction in 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.756 in numbers, maybe some of the more rural areas which are struggling in 00:27:24.789 --> 00:27:30.976 regard to their own well being with a decline of the livestock industry 00:27:31.009 --> 00:27:38.877 and other matters and whether the new form will give greater voice, two 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:43.286 urban people and urban concerns in Shiprock and Chinle and so forth, and 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:47.937 maybe not so much attention to what's going on in chilled tomato or other 00:27:47.970 --> 00:27:53.157 more rural environments. Well, I think in the, in the reapportionment plan 00:27:53.190 --> 00:28:01.190 that I have seen thus far, they took an extra uh, careful review of that 00:28:01.470 --> 00:28:06.187 issue And I think that's why they have like before, when there was 88 00:28:06.220 --> 00:28:13.637 council, uh, areas like Shiprock and Tuba City and fort defiance would 00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:20.687 have anywhere from 23 or even four council delegate from, from one 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.607 community. And 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:30.107 now that didn't really work out to the advantage of the local community. 00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:35.556 Uh, in fact, many of them were just in each other's way and uh, and they 00:28:35.589 --> 00:28:43.387 never were able to really get a lot done. So this time, uh, when the 00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:50.776 council was reduced to 24, those areas only got one and so that they 00:28:50.809 --> 00:28:57.736 couldn't dominate the small local chapters and they made it so that there 00:28:57.769 --> 00:29:04.097 was a balance between small chapters versus the big chapters and uh, and 00:29:04.130 --> 00:29:09.746 that's some of the features of the new reapportionment plan that never, 00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:16.687 who will be using for Voting in November 2010, do you think one final 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:19.526 question in this matter, do you think it will make any difference in 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:25.776 regard to the number of women who are possibly elected to the council? 00:29:25.809 --> 00:29:31.377 Will they be primarily hindered or helped by a different kind of uh number 00:29:31.410 --> 00:29:39.006 ? You know, I haven't, I haven't really looked at the uh, carefully The 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:44.887 number of uh women versus the men that are, that are running for those 24 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:51.526 seats, but I think just by glancing over the, the women folks will have 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:59.046 their share. And uh, and I think in almost uh, almost every precinct you 00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:05.576 have a woman candidate, with the exception of a maybe uh, 23 or four 00:30:05.609 --> 00:30:12.407 precincts where there were men, all men and uh, but you have some uh, 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:20.440 young ladies that has aspirations to become uh, local leaders uh, that, 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:26.707 that are throwing their hat in the ring for election november. 00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:31.687 one of the things that you, and I didn't quite get to because of the 00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:39.720 timing of things, was the overall assessment in regard to the um, the role 00:30:40.369 --> 00:30:48.137 of casino gaming in the Navajo economy. Um, until fairly recently, there 00:30:48.170 --> 00:30:54.486 was, there weren't casinos and now they're are several and ongoing 00:30:54.519 --> 00:31:00.026 discussions about several more. My understanding is that your position on 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:06.496 the institution of these casinos is primarily been favorable if, if it's 00:31:06.529 --> 00:31:09.256 done in the right kind of way, I wonder if you could just come in a little 00:31:09.289 --> 00:31:13.907 bit on where things are in that regard. And what are some of the 00:31:13.940 --> 00:31:18.907 achievements are, you know, sort of issues that are with us right now? 00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:26.940 Well, initially, initially way back and something like uh, 00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:33.407 in the mid 19 eighties when 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:41.440 ending people, tribal groups, tribes and groups elsewhere had their uh, 00:31:43.339 --> 00:31:45.407 casinos. 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:53.440 Navajo is kind of lag behind Uh, mainly because of two or 3 issues. one of 00:31:54.180 --> 00:32:02.180 them was, uh, the stance between the state's having, uh, the authority to 00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:10.607 convene a uh, compact and uh, 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:18.640 procedures between the States and the indian track and the Navajo being 00:32:18.670 --> 00:32:26.670 the largest, uh, an indian nation in the United States with a significant 00:32:27.250 --> 00:32:34.246 land base and numbers of people living on reservation. And then also many 00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:40.377 of them being a tradition continued to be a traditional person where they 00:32:40.410 --> 00:32:45.967 had, uh, some had limited education and you just have to look at the 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:54.000 composition of the Navajo. And the prevailing attitude was that we are not 00:32:54.259 --> 00:33:00.207 so sure if we want to go into indian gaming because 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:07.137 number one, if we go to the state of Arizona and ask them for a compact to 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:15.170 do gaming on the Navajo, then we're given the state an inch Uh, to open 00:33:15.940 --> 00:33:22.256 the door. And how do we know that they're not going to completely come in 00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:29.437 open the door fully so that they would begin having jurisdiction. So there 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:37.470 was that fear that once you submit yourself, uh, two a green with what the 00:33:38.849 --> 00:33:46.849 state is doing uh, for you, uh, maybe even with you on the Navajo 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:53.736 reservation among the Navajo people, then we're given in to some degree on 00:33:53.769 --> 00:34:00.197 our sovereignty. And so they looked at the issue the issue that way. And 00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:08.230 then the second one was the level nation is blessed with so much natural 00:34:09.469 --> 00:34:17.469 resources. We have the coal, we have, we have the, uh, 00:34:18.139 --> 00:34:26.139 the uh, the land base. We have all of these natural resources on the 00:34:26.750 --> 00:34:32.407 Navajo nation, the timbers and, 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:40.440 and we have those and that the Navajo people ought to develop that to gain 00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:46.617 more revenue stream to the neighborhood nation government. In other words 00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:52.727 , those natural resources are there to be developed. And if we get away 00:34:52.760 --> 00:35:00.137 from that and then go into gaming, gaming is easy money. It's a no brainer. 00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:05.376 And all you have to do is that you construct a building and you bring in 00:35:05.409 --> 00:35:12.407 your slot machine put people to work and it will succeed. And uh, and so 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:19.017 it was that kind of economic development versus developing your own 00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:26.977 natural resources where you have to use a lot of common sense. A lot of uh 00:35:27.010 --> 00:35:35.010 , labor, a lot of people skilled in uh, business management and all of 00:35:37.690 --> 00:35:42.646 that in order for one to make money that those were more challenging than 00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:48.106 just simply have any game. And so I've heard a lot of that kind of a 00:35:48.139 --> 00:35:55.606 discussion among among the neighborhood people. Yeah. And I guess the 00:35:55.639 --> 00:36:03.639 third issue that to the Navajo people also was important and which was the 00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:13.236 social effect that it will have on the traditional neighborhood life and 00:36:13.269 --> 00:36:21.269 that we're gonna have a lot of our people that may want to spend their 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:27.956 spare time at the casino rather than, let's say working their land, 00:36:27.989 --> 00:36:34.396 planting their, their corn, planting their food, tend in business, who 00:36:34.429 --> 00:36:40.727 their, their cattle and all that, the work that needs to be done. So, uh, 00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:47.436 they wanted a balance and uh, and they thought that uh, gaming might cause 00:36:47.469 --> 00:36:54.727 a lot of the social, uh, ills. And that was also, you know, one of the 00:36:54.760 --> 00:37:01.296 factors uh, in them, uh, deciding all of that. And the other thing was 00:37:01.329 --> 00:37:08.166 also important when the tribal council passed a resolution, I believe back 00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:12.796 in, oh, maybe 00:37:12.829 --> 00:37:20.829 19 nineties or early 19 nineties, uh, to have gaming. The council made it 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:29.907 in such a way that they had already named uh, communities which community 00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:37.940 was going to get casinos, uh, chin lee neighborhood new Mexico uh, dhe uh 00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:47.066 , in page Arizona Cameron Arizona. And they were naming in the, in the 00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:55.099 legislation itself, uh, that they were a proven it already name all those 00:37:55.409 --> 00:38:03.409 sites. And well, that really brought in a lot of fears, especially among 00:38:04.820 --> 00:38:08.296 the traditional people. And they were saying that, hey, it's going to be 00:38:08.329 --> 00:38:14.296 in our community. And I don't know, I don't know, I like that. And it was 00:38:14.329 --> 00:38:20.057 not set strategically like the way it's being planned right now. So the 00:38:20.090 --> 00:38:27.177 biggest difference between that Mid 1980 resolution to the resolution that 00:38:27.210 --> 00:38:35.210 was passed, who was, You know, in in 209 or 208 was that uh, the building 00:38:38.809 --> 00:38:46.387 of the casino are going to be strategically set alone I-40 uh between 00:38:46.420 --> 00:38:54.420 gallup new Mexico and Flagstaff. And if you do those right then you're the 00:38:54.980 --> 00:39:00.686 people that would patronize the place would be tourists, people drive on 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:06.436 the I 40 and that they would be strategically set. And I believe there's 00:39:06.469 --> 00:39:14.006 one or two being planned around far mention uh, highly populated area. And 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:20.447 uh, so uh, they're doing a better job of strategically naming those places 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:26.327 where it would make money While before the resolution that was passed in 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:32.347 the mid 1990s was just saturating the place with uh, with casinos. And I 00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:36.796 didn't think that it was gonna work. And that there was going to be 00:39:36.829 --> 00:39:43.856 unworkable plus to put up a casino costs a lot of money. Lots and lots of 00:39:43.889 --> 00:39:48.066 money is a very expensive proposition. 00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:53.296 And at that time we didn't have the money, we didn't have the money. And 00:39:53.329 --> 00:40:01.329 uh, and so I uh vetoed the resolution because there wasn't enough thoughts 00:40:02.309 --> 00:40:07.477 , There wasn't enough planning, there wasn't enough strategic plan and 00:40:07.510 --> 00:40:12.727 discussion among the Navajo people too to do that. And I I vetoed it. I 00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:20.387 said we should put this before the public and let the people decide what 00:40:20.420 --> 00:40:25.617 we should do and that there should be more strategic planning involved in 00:40:25.650 --> 00:40:32.747 this whole thing. And so they subsequent to that Resolution that was 00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:38.327 passed in the mid 1990s, the Navajo people voted on it and they rejected 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:45.497 it. Uh And uh and so that was essentially what happened now. Did they vote 00:40:45.530 --> 00:40:50.137 another time? Well, I think they voted on that three times, three times, 00:40:50.170 --> 00:40:56.827 fairly close. Yeah, they voted on three times and then the last time it 00:40:56.860 --> 00:41:04.436 passed and it passed because they took care of some of those concerns that 00:41:04.469 --> 00:41:11.677 I had, which was a better plan, it should be, should be put in place. And 00:41:11.710 --> 00:41:18.807 probably they saw that we were beginning to have uh some extra revenues 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:26.086 that were coming in. Now, the reason why I like what I see now Is that in 00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:29.276 the year 2010 00:41:29.309 --> 00:41:35.106 the Navajo gaming enterprise, which is an enterprise of the Navajo 00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:42.977 government. Yeah, they went to the Investment Committee and the Budget and 00:41:43.010 --> 00:41:48.177 Finance Committee and they've asked 00:41:48.210 --> 00:41:56.210 those two committees to approve a plan where they would use some of the 00:41:57.730 --> 00:42:05.646 monies that have been invested and has earned uh some significant amount 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:11.867 of interest money. one of them was what they call 00:42:11.900 --> 00:42:19.900 uh huh the permament the trust fund, right, Parliament trust fund. We 00:42:19.900 --> 00:42:25.146 started that during my administration. And we we started that with A 00:42:25.179 --> 00:42:31.856 deposit of $26 million 25 00:42:31.889 --> 00:42:39.889 27 year period. It earned all the way and it blossom and grew into Over a 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:48.916 billion dollars. I think it was 1.3 billion. And so what the game an 00:42:48.949 --> 00:42:55.416 enterprise did is they asked the two committees the budget and the 00:42:55.449 --> 00:43:03.449 investment committees to borrow that to do their gaming. And uh and they 00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:13.340 would pay back into the fund almost at the same rate as that the going 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:19.956 rate. I mean that uh what was considered adequate and uh and I don't 00:43:19.989 --> 00:43:26.717 remember what those numbers were but uh still the uh program it uh trust 00:43:26.750 --> 00:43:30.166 fund would make money because 00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:36.666 if you leave the Parliament trust fund sitting there in this present form 00:43:36.699 --> 00:43:44.699 at a billion dollar. It earns uh certain amount of interests the money, 00:43:46.369 --> 00:43:51.807 additional money that it generates each year. If you weigh that amount 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:58.227 versus the money being used to build a casino. I think what they did is 00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:03.686 they went one or 2% above that so that the Parliament fund would still 00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:08.626 grow, it would bring in more money from, from gaming. And the beauty of 00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:15.066 all of that is they didn't have to go to the outside bank and they don't 00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:22.657 have to go to the outside bank and bring in let's say uh Wells Fargo and 00:44:22.690 --> 00:44:28.287 Wells Fargo would end up making lots of money because their financing the 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.177 gaming development on the Navajo. Uh so the gaming enterprise in the 00:44:33.210 --> 00:44:38.506 neighborhood nation was very smart in in saving that money, putting money 00:44:38.539 --> 00:44:45.137 into a trust and all the revenues generated then there. So they really 00:44:45.170 --> 00:44:51.526 just simply borrow money from itself to do development. That's the beauty 00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:58.436 of it. And the guy who is the gaming director bob winter was coded in the 00:44:58.469 --> 00:45:03.697 neighborhood time saying that he knows of no other tribe that was in a 00:45:03.730 --> 00:45:10.077 position to do that. All of the other indian gaming facilities were built 00:45:10.110 --> 00:45:15.387 using outside banks. And then the tribes indebted themselves to those 00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:20.977 banks and uh and some of them are being called because the casinos are 00:45:21.010 --> 00:45:26.997 doing very well, but they still have all this uh uh uh money indebted to 00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:32.977 the bank that they have to pay and with an abomination, they just borrowed 00:45:33.010 --> 00:45:38.646 from one pocket uh and then maybe from several pockets to do what they 00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:43.876 want to do with the idea that it's going to generate more revenues and 00:45:43.909 --> 00:45:48.546 those monies will be put back uh and given back to the neighborhood nation. 00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:53.407 That's the beauty of it. And that's what you called self sufficiency when 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:59.956 we were put in the parliament trust funds together way back 27 years ago, 00:45:59.989 --> 00:46:05.776 that was the goal. That's why we did what we did uh that we wanted to have 00:46:05.809 --> 00:46:11.026 never the nation become using that money self sufficient someday in the 00:46:11.059 --> 00:46:18.646 future and never down on me that it would Come in the year 2010. 00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:23.467 It's really one of the major achievements of your time in Navajo political 00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:30.017 life. It seems to me, um, Just one or 2 other side questions when we 00:46:30.050 --> 00:46:34.816 talked last time about DNA legal services and we talked about Ted Mitchell 00:46:34.849 --> 00:46:38.436 and we talked about other people were involved. And one thing we didn't 00:46:38.469 --> 00:46:42.186 talk directly about and I don't know if you want to or not, but is there 00:46:42.219 --> 00:46:47.997 that important confrontation that took place Between mrs one IQ and Mr 00:46:48.030 --> 00:46:52.296 Mitchell that ended up having Mr Mitchell having to move his office. As I 00:46:52.329 --> 00:46:59.037 recall the gallup. It was one of the factors in changing the ongoing 00:46:59.070 --> 00:47:04.867 leadership of DNA. There's a lot of sort of mythology at this point and 00:47:04.900 --> 00:47:09.546 sort of guesses and suppositions, but not necessarily accurate. You know, 00:47:09.579 --> 00:47:13.626 accounts on sort of what happened that day or why it mattered. I just 00:47:13.659 --> 00:47:18.546 wondered if you wanted to speak to that at all or not. 00:47:18.579 --> 00:47:26.579 Well, I don't, I don't really uh, completely remember that day because I 00:47:28.610 --> 00:47:36.610 was doing something else. Uh, I was not at the office, I may have been 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:45.079 at another agency office like Chin lee or ship Prague or doing something 00:47:45.380 --> 00:47:50.827 away from Window Rock, when all that that happened. But as I talk to 00:47:50.860 --> 00:47:58.860 people who were there that day. Uh, there was a lot of discussion 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:02.936 by the Navajo Council, 00:48:02.969 --> 00:48:10.247 uh, on this, uh, indian civil rights act that was passed, I believe that 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:16.586 was in 1964 or something like that, when the when the Indian Civil Rights 00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:24.619 Act, who was attached to a major congressional bill. And uh, There was one 00:48:26.619 --> 00:48:32.436 section about providing due process 00:48:32.469 --> 00:48:35.836 uh, to any person. 00:48:35.869 --> 00:48:43.869 And the Navajo council was concerned with that section. And 00:48:43.969 --> 00:48:51.969 that does providing due process within the neighborhood nation context. 00:48:52.170 --> 00:49:00.170 Does it mean that any person besides Navajo or any person from the Navajo 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:03.936 nation, 00:49:03.969 --> 00:49:08.407 what what does it really, really mean? We have to provide due process to 00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:14.967 any person. What about tourists? What about all these other people? And if 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:23.000 we do incarcerate or arrest somebody, how much do process do the should be 00:49:23.289 --> 00:49:26.137 given to those individuals. 00:49:26.170 --> 00:49:34.170 And that kind of a discussion generated a lot of uh, talks among the 00:49:34.900 --> 00:49:42.296 lawyers and because naturally they they were defending the civil rights 00:49:42.329 --> 00:49:48.126 and the rights of neighborhood nationhood being the patches and what that 00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:54.236 all meant within the context of tribal governments. And so uh ted Mitchell 00:49:54.269 --> 00:50:00.146 , the director of DNA people's legal services was naturally interested 00:50:00.179 --> 00:50:06.597 because there was a lot of discussion about his activities on the 00:50:06.630 --> 00:50:14.630 neighborhood nation. Getting involved in a lot of issues that was that the 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.767 naval nation was confronting and there were water rights issue, There were 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:26.977 land issues, There were issues with the tribal general counsel, the 00:50:27.010 --> 00:50:32.197 lawyers that the, that represented the whole Navajo nation and their 00:50:32.230 --> 00:50:38.006 activities. There were a lot of questions about schools out in the 00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:43.626 communities and, and some of that 00:50:43.659 --> 00:50:51.659 events and activities that those schools were, uh, I guess, uh, involved 00:50:52.929 --> 00:51:00.706 in relative to students not giving them due process and violating their 00:51:00.739 --> 00:51:05.776 rights, I think right at that point, there was a lot of discussion about 00:51:05.809 --> 00:51:13.006 long hair, long hair issue where if a Navajo who youngster wants to 00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:19.727 participate in the football football coaches were causing them to have 00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:23.856 their haircuts first before they joined the football team, it didn't 00:51:23.889 --> 00:51:30.026 matter whether the person had skills or not, was being athletic or not. 00:51:30.059 --> 00:51:35.066 And so that all involved the civil rights matters of that individual. And 00:51:35.099 --> 00:51:40.467 so naturally there lawyers were very, very much interested. And so as I 00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:48.500 understand it that day, uh, chad Mitchell went over to the Navajo council 00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:55.197 alone with two or 3 other lawyers. And, uh, and so they were sitting there 00:51:55.230 --> 00:52:01.597 in the Navajo council when an individual from the Department of Interior, 00:52:01.630 --> 00:52:08.657 from the solicitor's office came out to explain the new law and when they 00:52:08.690 --> 00:52:15.537 came to that section on providing due process, uh, to anyone to non 00:52:15.570 --> 00:52:22.717 indians, there was a lot of contention, lot of emotions that were involved. 00:52:22.750 --> 00:52:30.750 And I guess the council try not to name anybody by ted Mitchell knew that 00:52:32.550 --> 00:52:38.927 that, uh, he was the center of that discussion. And uh, and I guess he 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:45.827 thought it was funny why they wouldn't they wouldn't uh name him. But he 00:52:45.860 --> 00:52:52.336 knew clearly that that uh whatever was said was that was him and he 00:52:52.369 --> 00:52:59.916 thought that was funny. And so he ended up uh uh laughing about the matter 00:52:59.949 --> 00:53:04.267 and I guess at one point another question was asked and that made him 00:53:04.300 --> 00:53:10.177 laugh really hard and everybody heard it in the council. And so Annie 00:53:10.210 --> 00:53:15.436 Monica was one of those individual council delegate that set in the very 00:53:15.469 --> 00:53:23.469 very back row because the council seats were a sign in the alphabetical 00:53:24.980 --> 00:53:32.927 order. So her last name was veronica. So she was the last one sitting with 00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:39.697 the Yazidis and the yellow hairs. And uh so I guess she just got out of 00:53:39.730 --> 00:53:44.477 her chair from that last row because Ted Mitchell was right in the back of 00:53:44.510 --> 00:53:51.956 her and uh and maybe chad Mitchell thought that she was going to leave and 00:53:51.989 --> 00:53:57.126 she was ready to leave or something like that. And uh didn't pay much 00:53:57.159 --> 00:54:04.227 attention how angry she was. And when Ted was according to him, when he 00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:09.646 was looking away, I didn't see this punch coming from anywhere. Nika and 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:17.679 Anna when I punched him in the in the mosque. And so that caused a lot of 00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:24.447 uh controversy throughout the reservation. And uh d n. A. People's legal 00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:32.480 service end up suing uh the tribal government because what happened that 00:54:32.619 --> 00:54:40.619 they was the chairman of the never tried Raymond knock I sent a police 00:54:42.130 --> 00:54:50.130 over to ah D. N. A. And uh and that police then escorted ted Mitchell off 00:54:50.409 --> 00:54:56.427 the reservation towards gallop and uh left him at the reservation line. 00:54:56.460 --> 00:55:03.017 And he had to walk some distances and maybe hitchhike into into gallup but 00:55:03.050 --> 00:55:09.747 he was given instruction not to set foot back on the uh Navajo nation. And 00:55:09.780 --> 00:55:15.927 as I understand it, what the tribe uses that in the treaty of 18 68 00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:20.407 between the Navajo nation government and the United States government. 00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:28.440 There's also a section dealing with uh bad man among the indians or 00:55:29.030 --> 00:55:36.137 something like that. Bad man among the indians. And it states that if 00:55:36.170 --> 00:55:40.706 there is that individual then 00:55:40.739 --> 00:55:48.739 United States and the tribal government can escort expel that individual 00:55:48.789 --> 00:55:55.137 from indian land and uh and dry them off the reservation. So they use that 00:55:55.170 --> 00:56:02.867 section of the treaty to get ted Mitchell of the reservation. Well what 00:56:02.900 --> 00:56:08.106 happened the controversy was, you have the treaty that was supporting the 00:56:08.139 --> 00:56:14.177 tribe. You have a new law called indian Civil rights Act that says that 00:56:14.210 --> 00:56:22.210 you had to give due process to anyone, any person. And the 00:56:22.929 --> 00:56:29.117 legal issue for the judge and the court to decide was uh the difference 00:56:29.150 --> 00:56:36.387 between those two and ted Mitchell eventually won uh in stating that his 00:56:36.420 --> 00:56:44.177 civil rights was violated. And uh and so he was restored back to to the 00:56:44.210 --> 00:56:51.336 neighborhood nation several weeks or even months later uh to resume his 00:56:51.369 --> 00:56:56.157 duty as executive director of DNA people's legal service. But he really 00:56:56.190 --> 00:57:00.137 couldn't in some ways. Goody. I mean it was really sort of a marked man 00:57:00.170 --> 00:57:06.336 man to some extent. He already was, but made it harder for him to carry on 00:57:06.369 --> 00:57:14.369 as he carried on before maybe. Yeah, he, you know, he at that point at 00:57:15.429 --> 00:57:18.597 that point 00:57:18.630 --> 00:57:25.747 he thought that he was a distraction. Um, um, a lot of his employees and 00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:33.586 what DNA was all about. And so uh, he just elected to go seek another 00:57:33.619 --> 00:57:41.619 legal aid uh program job somewhere else. And so he went to Hawaii and then 00:57:41.780 --> 00:57:47.776 over to Micronesia where he was, where he became director. Yeah, he was 00:57:47.809 --> 00:57:53.577 there for a long time. Yeah. Okay. Um, I think we've touched most of the 00:57:53.610 --> 00:57:57.086 bases that I wanted to touch. Is there anything you wanted to add on any 00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:59.677 of these points? You could take the papers with you if there's something 00:57:59.710 --> 00:58:03.747 that, you know, you want to add on the future? All certainly when we have 00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:08.486 the sort of full initial draft finished, which I hope to have before too 00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:11.827 long then, well, you can take another look at it. And we've been in Karen 00:58:11.860 --> 00:58:15.816 , it's been incorporating and I've been incorporating, you know, most of 00:58:15.849 --> 00:58:19.227 your comments at least in corrections and changes as we've gone along. So 00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:24.387 we're, we're getting there good 00:58:24.420 --> 00:58:29.137 and I hope you feel like I don't think I need to add any, any other thing. 00:58:29.170 --> 00:58:33.486 Okay. I can't think of anything that comes from, I just sort of type this 00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:38.006 up um, this morning, but I think, I think we've touched a number of things. 00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:44.686 I really appreciate your speaking to these in a timely way. So 00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:48.327 thank you. I'm sorry to have taken up some of your day in this way, but I 00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:51.657 think it's with a casino gaming as a, for example, I think it's really 00:58:51.690 --> 00:58:57.046 important to have your perspective on that and to see how it evolved. That 00:58:57.079 --> 00:58:59.986 will add a lot to the, 00:59:00.019 --> 00:59:05.086 you know, related discussions. Good. Good. 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:11.336 Okay. Well I'll be in touch, I talked with the u of a press people and 00:59:11.369 --> 00:59:16.436 they say all sounds good, but get the material in as soon as we can. So 00:59:16.469 --> 00:59:22.077 I'll let you, no, and you know, we have this next stage order. And will 00:59:22.110 --> 00:59:25.776 you have, will uh annabelle or somebody else be in your office this summer 00:59:25.809 --> 00:59:31.026 ? Annabelle and Annabelle will be there. Uh, so we can get in touch with 00:59:31.059 --> 00:59:39.059 you one another if we have to, I think sometimes in july she'll be off for 00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:44.026 sure. Yeah, two or three days. That's that's about it. Otherwise she'll be 00:59:44.059 --> 00:59:49.626 , she'll be there. Yeah, judging from your calendar, it sounds like you're 00:59:49.659 --> 00:59:55.066 gonna be in and out. So and I will be to to some extent. So, but I think I 00:59:55.099 --> 00:59:58.126 think we have a very good chance of getting this done sooner rather than 00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:01.137 later and yeah, I'm really excited about it. I think it's turned out very 01:00:01.170 --> 01:00:08.447 well. Okay, my friend. Yeah. Let me head back over there is about 2.30. 01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:13.697 Yeah, it's for both of us is time to move on to some other things, but I'm 01:00:13.730 --> 01:00:18.586 glad we could cover the ground we covered today. Did you hit that button? 01:00:18.619 --> 01:00:23.380 Yeah. Uh, this one.