WEBVTT 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:05.907 I think we're on. Yeah, it's on. Okay. 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:13.940 Okay. Uh, I thought it might be important just to talk a little about my 00:00:14.089 --> 00:00:21.346 own personal experience when I was just a young boy growing up in our 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:27.756 community and then little things that happened to me that makes all the 00:00:27.789 --> 00:00:33.107 difference in the world in my life today. Uh, as far back as I could 00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:41.140 remember, we always live north of King's Canyon, uh, into a valley, the 00:00:44.979 --> 00:00:52.576 first valley that goes up north and to the east, uh, side of the road 00:00:52.609 --> 00:01:00.156 there by Kings Canyon. And uh, I don't really remember how old I was, but 00:01:00.189 --> 00:01:08.189 that's when I really start noticing things. And it was a family gathering 00:01:08.290 --> 00:01:15.697 place where my grandma and my grandpa lived and we always live right close 00:01:15.730 --> 00:01:19.837 to where they were living. Of course they had some sheep, they had some 00:01:19.870 --> 00:01:27.870 horses And maybe two or 3 cars that they own. And I could remember about 00:01:29.739 --> 00:01:37.527 going out with the older boys and tending to that and, and what that did 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:45.027 to mean was really to build into my head when even when I was just a young 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:51.467 man, the sense of responsibility that we all have responsibility and that 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:59.500 we all had to uh help in certain ways to keep the family going to keep the 00:01:59.670 --> 00:02:06.807 tradition going within the family and be able to practice and really live 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:12.106 some of those responsibilities that was expected of us by the elderly. And 00:02:12.139 --> 00:02:18.117 so it was something that I always remember and sometimes today I would 00:02:18.150 --> 00:02:24.467 dream about, you know, living back then and the way it was, was where we 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:31.186 were living, we planted corn, we planted all of the basic food that we 00:02:31.219 --> 00:02:39.136 would need, squash, beans, potatoes, uh, you know those kinds of basic 00:02:39.169 --> 00:02:47.169 stables, watermelon, pumpkins. And we had to make sure that uh, they are 00:02:49.150 --> 00:02:56.156 good crops uh, to be picked in the fall and water supply. I would say it 00:02:56.189 --> 00:03:04.189 was maybe a couple of miles up the canyon and into the mesa there and we 00:03:06.659 --> 00:03:14.659 had to really almost dick up our own water. And uh, we use an old shovel, 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:22.707 uh any kind of steel that we can find and we would dig into the earth 00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:26.307 where it was, 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:32.156 it looks like the water was seeping out and then you make a little a 00:03:32.189 --> 00:03:39.827 pothole into the clay and then that's where the water accumulated every 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:45.997 day each night. And so during the day, in the morning you will come with a 00:03:46.030 --> 00:03:52.626 bucket and you take that water home and then during the night it would 00:03:52.659 --> 00:03:57.737 accumulate and some more water will come out the next morning you take 00:03:57.770 --> 00:04:04.677 another Uh five gallon bucket to uh get that water. And of course the 00:04:04.710 --> 00:04:11.436 sheep, they had a windmill closer to the highway, Maybe about four or 5 00:04:11.469 --> 00:04:16.346 miles. That's where we took the sheep drinking water was one of those 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:22.796 commodities that was hard to come by. And uh, so that it was something 00:04:22.829 --> 00:04:29.476 that, that we did. And I always think about today, uh, we drank all of 00:04:29.509 --> 00:04:32.786 that water just coming out of the earth and how come we didn't really get 00:04:32.819 --> 00:04:39.366 sick and I guess your body's just get used to it. And because you've been 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:43.556 all your life, I've been drinking that water and you build up an immune 00:04:43.589 --> 00:04:51.589 system to any kind of virus or what have you that might have uh survived 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:56.887 or that might have been in the water. And so it's just amazing just to 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:03.306 think about those things and back then. And I would say this is in the 00:05:03.339 --> 00:05:05.406 probably 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:08.306 The early 1940s 00:05:08.339 --> 00:05:13.806 and you didn't really hear all that much about Navajo Hopi land dispute 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:21.839 back then because we were Really live in District six, which is the Hopi 00:05:22.050 --> 00:05:24.106 Territory 00:05:24.139 --> 00:05:31.127 hope you country. And there wasn't much discussion that I remember people 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:39.160 talking about that, but it wasn't until perhaps during the war uh 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:48.106 In the mid 1940s that I heard a lot about those kinds of local, 00:05:48.139 --> 00:05:55.397 the discussions, local politics and where the Hopi Nation was really 00:05:55.430 --> 00:06:01.647 trying to push up the Navajos who were occupying some of the spaces within 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:08.986 the Hopi Territory. So we had to move on several occasions from Kings 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:17.019 Canyon going up further to the east and the north uh site of Kings Canyon. 00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:23.606 And every time we move, we would move maybe eight miles up or 10 miles up 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:30.277 where we settled and the settlement was such where you had to dismantle 00:06:30.310 --> 00:06:36.116 your Hogan and then we had an old wagon, john Deere wagon that my 00:06:36.149 --> 00:06:42.536 grandfather owned and we, we would use that wagon to haul all of the uh 00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:50.569 logs. Uh you know that that we use for corral for Hogan. And it was hard 00:06:52.310 --> 00:06:58.556 work, but you know, it was also good for our bodies and good for our our 00:06:58.589 --> 00:07:03.366 mind and our soul because we were actually doing things. And back in those 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:08.827 days we didn't really have what you call toys nowadays. I live with my 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:13.077 grandchildren and and everything that they have. We bite for them to 00:07:13.110 --> 00:07:19.606 parents buy it for them. And so they just end up accepting the toys as 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:25.306 they are, as they are made coming off the factory. And there's nothing 00:07:25.339 --> 00:07:30.726 that goes into thinking about how those toys are made. But with, with us, 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:37.457 when we were at that age, when we would have sometimes to ourselves, we 00:07:37.490 --> 00:07:43.496 would go over to the mesa where there was a lot of moisture and we would 00:07:43.529 --> 00:07:49.277 dig into the ground and dig out the clay, the clay that the indian people 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.906 used to make pottery, we would get that and we would create our own toys. 00:07:55.939 --> 00:08:03.939 Uh if we wanted to have horse, we had draw our own horse, we had to shape 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:11.517 the clay into a horse or cow or even uh little things that we would need. 00:08:11.550 --> 00:08:17.187 And so I guess uh when at such a young age, when you do those kinds of 00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:25.220 things, a lot of your own creativity uh, is still into you. And uh, and 00:08:25.579 --> 00:08:33.579 you then become a creator of your own toys. And you have to, you know, do 00:08:34.250 --> 00:08:39.976 things in such a way that uh, you make things for yourself, you make your 00:08:40.009 --> 00:08:47.776 own toys and you have to find places in a time when you can be alone and 00:08:47.809 --> 00:08:53.307 and play and play the things that you like to play. And so I think people 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:58.657 at that generation, my generation, uh, they learned how to do all of that 00:08:58.690 --> 00:09:04.256 , which I am very grateful that that that happened. Uh, you know, we 00:09:04.289 --> 00:09:07.827 didn't buy things from everything that we need. We didn't, we didn't buy 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:15.157 it at the store, we had to create it and we had to uh, do all of those 00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:21.126 things and find them ourselves. And so there's a lot of talk about people 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:29.159 having to move uh huh from the former uh, let's say a Navajo Hopi land 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:37.587 disputed area and people talk about it and it's very, very emotional for 00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:43.057 the Navajo people. But the way I look at it is that we we had to move 00:09:43.090 --> 00:09:49.506 three times my family Outside and we had to move outside of District six. 00:09:49.539 --> 00:09:54.096 And then when we did that, we didn't move far enough so that we ended up 00:09:54.129 --> 00:09:58.626 into a disputed area where the land was jointly owned by the Hopi and 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:03.967 Navajo. And then when that got settled in 1974, then we had to move again 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:09.307 outside of that area because where we were living became Hopi Hopi country. 00:10:09.340 --> 00:10:14.896 Uh they uh, the mediator and the federal government made it so that they 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:19.846 turned that land over to the Hopi Nation. So we had to move out of that 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:24.167 area again. So, uh, the way I look at that is that, you know, it just gave 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:31.736 us a lot of strength. Uh, it gave us uh uh, you know, some of those things 00:10:31.769 --> 00:10:39.769 that uh, pull the family together. And my grandfather always said, yeah, 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.907 we are having a tough time, We're having to work hard, we don't have much 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:49.386 to eat and all of that. And every day we had to work to even uh, to build 00:10:49.419 --> 00:10:55.427 our own uh dwelling place, our Hogan. And uh, and we had to rebuild the 00:10:55.460 --> 00:11:00.047 corrals and all of that. But you know, uh, this is gonna make us a 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:05.616 stronger family. And for you young boys, it's gonna make you a stronger 00:11:05.649 --> 00:11:10.026 individual where you have to do things on your own. You don't depend on 00:11:10.059 --> 00:11:14.207 anybody, We're not dependent on anybody. We're having to do all of this 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:20.516 ourselves. And so I'm teaching you a lot of self being self reliant. And 00:11:20.549 --> 00:11:25.197 sure there's going to be challenges in life and this is just a good lesson 00:11:25.230 --> 00:11:30.327 for you to go through. And so that that that was something that I 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:36.807 experienced during my lifetime. Uh, grandmother and grandfather were very 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:41.516 strong people. traditionally. My grandmother never went to school. She 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:44.106 doesn't, 00:11:44.139 --> 00:11:50.307 she didn't know a word of english. And my grandfather had some schooling 00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:58.340 and he was a carpenter, he was vocational education educated person. And 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.407 so he knew how to do a lot of these things and he spoke perfect english. 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:11.136 He also spoke Hopi language and spoke the Apache language. And so he was 00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:16.006 in every sense of the word uh 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:24.039 trilingual. And so he was a very resourceful person and he was the person 00:12:26.409 --> 00:12:31.986 that kind of held the family together. And so that is something that I 00:12:32.019 --> 00:12:40.019 experienced during my lifetime. And one of the things that uh that 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:47.297 happened during the process of us constantly having to move was people 00:12:47.330 --> 00:12:55.330 being uh either drafted or volunteering to go into the armed services to 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:06.240 helped during the war. And a lot of my uncles and some of my relatives uh 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:13.837 served during the war. And that left us at home that the young boys only 00:13:13.870 --> 00:13:21.376 with the women. And so because of the war, my uncles and my father and 00:13:21.409 --> 00:13:26.096 other people had to leave the camp. And uh and that put all of the 00:13:26.129 --> 00:13:32.606 responsibility on our shoulders at such a young young age. And I remember 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:40.639 at one time, Back in the early 1940s, we were so hungry we were so hungry 00:13:41.179 --> 00:13:48.207 , we didn't have much to eat. And what we ate was what we found out there 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:55.146 and we were so hungry that we started talking about uh killing our own 00:13:55.179 --> 00:14:01.856 horse. Uh the little pony that we had in the family, that was really 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:08.207 cherished by many of the youngsters with within our family. And that was 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:16.240 really a terrible emotional experience that I went through because we were 00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:25.129 taking care of that little pony and we had to, we had to uh slaughter the 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:32.307 pony in order for us to survive. And I remember that 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:38.366 when we got together, when we got together, that we talked about, how do 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:43.567 you kill an animal? Well with, with a sheep, it's very easy, you just get 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.736 a knife and you cut their throat. And but how do you, what do you do with 00:14:47.769 --> 00:14:55.769 a horse? And so after some discussion that lady in the, in our family 00:14:57.470 --> 00:15:02.876 decided that my mother should be 00:15:02.909 --> 00:15:10.909 the person responsible for uh killing the opponent. So what we did is that 00:15:11.539 --> 00:15:19.539 she told us to put a a cloth over the, the ponies I and hang the cloth on 00:15:19.990 --> 00:15:25.827 the ears under two years so that the, the pony can't see. And then she got 00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:33.860 an ax and hit a pony in the forehead and the pony went down. And uh, but 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:39.287 that was our food for, you know, the next several days. So we had to do 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:44.967 those kinds of things in order for us to survive. And so I guess in my 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:52.197 case you have to learn, you have to learn from that and and the learning 00:15:52.230 --> 00:15:58.126 was that anything that you do, uh in terms of raising your own who you 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:05.476 always have to save, You always had to save some of the vegetables that 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:10.807 you may raise during the summer that you harvest in the fall uh for the 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:15.957 winter. And you had to dig into the ground into the earth where you 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:23.990 refrigerated the food. And then you had uh really uh took a great 00:16:26.750 --> 00:16:31.167 responsibility and taking care of that. And that was our, I guess in many 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:38.116 ways our refrigerator and so during the winter we would open that and then 00:16:38.149 --> 00:16:43.386 uh and and that's where our food was stored. And it was one of those 00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:48.587 situations where when you're eating something, you also have your little 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:54.317 other uh small siblings, brothers and sisters that were smaller than you. 00:16:54.350 --> 00:16:57.846 And you always have to keep them in mind because you know, they want to 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:02.287 eat too and you don't want to be so picky, so you eat just enough to have 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:07.736 the food go around so that you know, you survive another day. And that was 00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:12.986 a great lesson to all of us. And I vividly remember many of those 00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:18.217 experience when we were put into that situation. But what really taught me 00:17:18.250 --> 00:17:23.286 there was that you had to share with whatever it is that you have. And you 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:29.266 also have to work hard even to get your own food to eat for the day so 00:17:29.299 --> 00:17:34.486 that you can survive. And uh, it was, it was a good lesson, It was a good 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:40.457 lesson for uh, for me and for many of us to go through that experience. I 00:17:40.490 --> 00:17:47.177 just wanted to uh, talk about this so that uh, we would have an idea what 00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:52.397 kind of background we had. It was not a situation in low mountain area 00:17:52.430 --> 00:18:00.107 where you are always had a house and you had uh, transportation, you had 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:08.140 to pick up trucks or highways trading post electricity line, uh, to, to 00:18:09.009 --> 00:18:14.177 take care of your basic needs. We never had those. And uh, and when we 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:20.147 went from, when we were moving from place to place, we had to go down into 00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:25.026 another valley and there were no roads. So how do you get from the top of 00:18:25.059 --> 00:18:30.947 the mesa to go down into the uh, lower section of that land. There were no 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:37.107 roads. And so we had to build our own roads and build it so that even the 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:45.140 horses cannot be driven down that the valley and in many cases we had to 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:52.447 work not poor one week or one another, we had to work years just to, to, 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:58.526 to do our own road so a wagon could go down. And so that was the kind of 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:03.816 environment that I was raised in and my grandfather was the one that 00:19:03.849 --> 00:19:10.306 really promoted that he organized the community. We all came out and I had 00:19:10.339 --> 00:19:14.657 fun together, but at the same time we were working hard, working really, 00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:20.927 really hard with a shovel with a sledgehammer with uh, you know, all of 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:27.637 the basic, basic manual labor type tools, crowbar and, and all of that. We 00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:35.506 had to use to, to build our own roads. And so it was something that was 00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:43.539 very, very interesting background for all of us to be be raised in that 00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:52.107 kind of context within my family. I just wanted to uh, to say that. Thank 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:57.986 you. Yeah. Yeah. Let me get some water and then we'll talk about the 00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:06.019 challenges and you can ask questions. 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:12.316 Want to make sure I okay. I haven't moved it. I think it's still on. I 00:20:12.349 --> 00:20:16.467 wondered if if you could just back up for a minute in terms of when you 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:21.496 made those moves, did you? It was within Land Land Management District six. 00:20:21.529 --> 00:20:27.207 But were you, was low mountain remain the closest, 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:33.306 you know, community or were you, you know, I know there are a series of 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:40.357 places sort of sprinkled around that area. In other words, if today we 00:20:40.390 --> 00:20:45.697 have all these chapter houses and chapters. So I wondered if if you, were 00:20:45.730 --> 00:20:51.996 you closer to gelato at one point or what did you remain here? Uh Oh, 00:20:52.029 --> 00:20:58.907 mountains. Yeah. We remain mainly between kim's Canyon and what is now a 00:20:58.940 --> 00:21:06.226 low mountain. That was kind of like our uh, area where, where we live, We 00:21:06.259 --> 00:21:13.536 never really went over to gelato or towards that area. When we were in the 00:21:13.569 --> 00:21:21.569 process of moving from place to place. And low mountain was not low 00:21:21.940 --> 00:21:27.976 mountain as we know today, and it was just a place, there were maybe only 00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:33.627 one or two families that live down there down the valley. And so we 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:41.660 eventually end up settling in low martin, I would say. Not until 1953, 00:21:44.269 --> 00:21:46.806 Yeah, 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:51.506 but when you went to school, you you said you were in school at Tuba City 00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:57.457 for I went to school at Tuba City. I was one of those individuals that 00:21:57.490 --> 00:22:03.657 started out late. I believe I was nine years old when I was taken away 00:22:03.690 --> 00:22:08.066 from my family, but when we were living between Kings Canyon and Low 00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:14.726 Mountain, up on top of the hill and uh we were taken to uh tuba City 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:19.306 boarding school. 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.467 Mhm. Mhm. 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:29.306 It sounds like it's for you. Yeah. 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.306 Hello? 00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:40.339 Yeah. Mhm. That's unusual. And you'll call, but Yeah. 00:22:46.740 --> 00:22:54.740 Well you sure. So you you started it, I just wanted to make sort of fill 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:59.917 in that blank a little bit. So you went to Tuba City rather than two or 00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:06.566 more? Yeah, I went to, I went directly to Tuba City. Uh Probably mainly 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:12.786 because many of my cousins were going to Tuba City. And uh I remember my 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:20.819 aunt who had three boys going to school at Tuba City who was taking her 00:23:20.910 --> 00:23:27.857 Children uh to uh tuba City boarding school for the first time and I 00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:31.447 didn't go with them the first year, but next year they were, when they 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:38.137 were going back, they, they talked about how how it was in school and uh, 00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:42.986 you know, there was plenty of food available. There was uh they played 00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:48.526 games, they played, they had softball team, they had uh, you know, 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.857 basketball team and and all of that and they were, they were just talking 00:23:52.890 --> 00:23:59.387 about their school experience in uh, in their wonderful, in enjoyable way. 00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:03.586 And I was listening very, very carefully and I decided that, you know, 00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:08.907 what I should do is join my cousins. And it didn't really matter with me 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:14.336 if I didn't have any clothes, nice clothes, nice shoes or anything like 00:24:14.369 --> 00:24:22.369 that. And, And I just tacked alone and I went and there was in 1948. And 00:24:24.069 --> 00:24:32.069 uh and when I got there, many of the other boys that were in school, some 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:37.687 of them had grown there, their their clothes, they couldn't really wear 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:43.086 their clothes anymore, so they just gave them to me yet. And uh, so it was 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:50.306 one of those uh situation where I was able to fit my body into the clothes 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:55.786 that they were throwing away. And uh for me in my head, uh that didn't 00:24:55.819 --> 00:25:01.546 really matter with me, it was just, it was just closed and you, I treated 00:25:01.579 --> 00:25:07.697 it as, you know, that's something that you had to have and particularly in 00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:13.556 the wintertime when it gets a little colder, you need a jacket. And you 00:25:13.589 --> 00:25:21.347 know, it was a situation where I just had to uh you know borrow in some 00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:26.566 cases that jacket the other boys had, do you think having family members, 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:32.266 relatives going to school at the school when you got there too, that help 00:25:32.299 --> 00:25:38.816 you in terms of sort of adjusting to that different environment? Ah Yeah. 00:25:38.849 --> 00:25:46.849 Well it the adjustment was very hard for me personally and I guess it was 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:53.457 hard because in the first place, you know, you love your mother and you 00:25:53.490 --> 00:26:00.147 love your relatives, your father and your grandfather and the idea of 00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:08.180 leaving them, the idea of leaving the animals behind your horses and and 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:15.266 sheep that you own and leaving them with your your family and your your 00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:22.407 grandparents, uh not getting any younger. Uh you know that kind of uh was 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:29.836 very emotional for me, but I also knew that it had to be done that way. We 00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:37.776 just have to uh make that break and begin uh being self sufficient as an 00:26:37.809 --> 00:26:43.776 individual. And one concept was that you had to go away from home to get 00:26:43.809 --> 00:26:49.917 an education. And so that was something that there was very strong in my 00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:56.826 own head and that's why, you know, I didn't, I didn't uh suffer as long uh 00:26:56.859 --> 00:27:02.756 as much as the other other Children did. And as long as I had that concept 00:27:02.789 --> 00:27:07.867 in my head that there was okay was something that I had to deal with. Uh 00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:15.900 huh In my life, were you able to see like your mother or other persons at 00:27:17.390 --> 00:27:22.457 all from when you first started in the fall until later on or did they 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:28.506 ever come over to see you? Or was that discouraged? Or my aunt, whose, 00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:34.657 whose Children were going to school there? We saw them maybe two or three 00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:42.137 times a year. I think maybe on one occasion my mother would come with with 00:27:42.170 --> 00:27:48.867 her and just to see us. But the problem was there was no highway between 00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:56.857 Kings Canyon and tuba city was all dirt road. And so it was, it took a day 00:27:56.890 --> 00:28:04.387 for them to get to, from Kings Canyon to go to to the city. And uh, and 00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:09.967 there weren't any service station along the way. So uh, they had to go 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.677 through the largest too just to see us at the boarding school, uh, tuba 00:28:14.710 --> 00:28:17.107 city 00:28:17.140 --> 00:28:21.207 and um, 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:28.637 can you described maybe a, a typical day at the school? I mean how it 00:28:28.670 --> 00:28:33.306 started and what you did, 00:28:33.339 --> 00:28:41.339 the boarding school was conducted almost like your military institute 00:28:42.849 --> 00:28:50.046 where they separated the boys between what they call, uh, you know, the 00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:55.117 big boys is dormitory and the little boy's dormitory. But within that 00:28:55.150 --> 00:29:01.597 dormitory living, uh, they had what they call a platoon system, uh, where 00:29:01.630 --> 00:29:06.967 you were each given a number and you all had to get in line the first 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.677 thing in the morning, let's say seven o'clock in the morning and you had 00:29:10.710 --> 00:29:16.486 to stand on your number when the whistle blew and then from there the your 00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:23.187 platoon leader would march you to the cafeteria. And uh but when you get 00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:28.657 up and that bells or the whistle is being blown, when you hear the whistle 00:29:28.690 --> 00:29:34.086 , you have to get out there. But prior to that you had to uh wash up, you 00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:38.546 have to press your teeth, you had to comb your hair, you had to make up 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:46.296 your bed and you had to uh have a nice clean clothes on and you have to 00:29:46.329 --> 00:29:51.607 shine your shoes. And so by the time the whistle blew, you're supposed to 00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:55.137 all be ready and ready to go. And all you do is you jump and go to your 00:29:55.170 --> 00:30:00.207 number and then they would 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:08.240 do little drills, uh there by your platoon leader and then you march over 00:30:08.750 --> 00:30:16.607 to the cafeteria to eat the food, a lot of vegetables and later on I 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:23.836 learned I learned that when I went to a boarding school for example, 00:30:23.869 --> 00:30:29.647 they're interpret city. Uh we had an opportunity to work out in the field 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:37.046 a place called pasture canyon and that's where the school uh planted corn 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:43.756 , this uh squash watermelon. Uh much of what we were eating at the 00:30:43.789 --> 00:30:51.326 cafeteria was raised by by the school and we, as a student volunteered uh 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.097 to help the school personnel to to do that and all of that was brought 00:30:56.130 --> 00:31:01.847 into the boarding school And then the kitchen workers prepared the food 00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:07.377 that we brought in. And so we had a lot of corn bread, we had a lot of 00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:15.410 beans, we had watermelon, we had corn and all of that. You know, it was it 00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:22.107 was a lot of healthy food and so we had that for for breakfast for example. 00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:27.826 And then we came back to the dormitory, let's say around 8 30. And uh and 00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:33.016 then suddenly like quarter to nine, then the whistle will blow again, then 00:31:33.049 --> 00:31:40.256 you're supposed to all go get back on your number and then they would 00:31:40.289 --> 00:31:45.036 march you close to where the classes were and then they dismiss you and 00:31:45.069 --> 00:31:52.377 then you all went to your to your class and for me uh for example, let's 00:31:52.410 --> 00:31:58.417 say a typical day was where I went into my english class to learn more 00:31:58.450 --> 00:32:05.607 about english perhaps how to communicate and what the words mean. And then 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:12.226 spell the spelling of those words that we were being taught. And then the 00:32:12.259 --> 00:32:19.796 next hour might be where it was devoted to learning more in working with 00:32:19.829 --> 00:32:27.637 your hands. Uh learning something about tools and learning something that 00:32:27.670 --> 00:32:34.857 you can create with your own hands. Uh little toys that you might do uh 00:32:34.890 --> 00:32:40.536 that you might cut out of the wood and you you sand it down, then you 00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:45.967 painted that and you either do that for yourself or you do it for somebody 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:53.657 or for the school. And so it was a vocational light class, may be devoted 00:32:53.690 --> 00:32:59.847 to that kind of learning for about hour, hour and a half. And then the 00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:06.066 next one might be physical education where we during the during the year 00:33:06.099 --> 00:33:09.407 you had baseball, 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:11.506 football 00:33:11.539 --> 00:33:18.526 track and uh those kinds of activities just to exercise your your body. 00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:23.887 But they really didn't have any showers. You did that just in your plain 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.326 clothes, the clothes that you were wearing, you didn't you didn't go to 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:33.687 gymnasium, there was no gymnasium. And so we did that. And then at noon we 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:40.867 went back to, we went back to the cafeteria and the cafeteria was set up 00:33:40.900 --> 00:33:47.246 in such a way that you were each given a duty. Uh Some of the students had 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:55.279 to cook and so they were Given the permission to leave at 11:30 or quarter 00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:00.546 after 11 for example. And they did work at the kitchen until all the 00:34:00.579 --> 00:34:05.806 students start showing up at 12, then they served us Food and then 00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:10.977 afterwards they would stay until about 1:30. But we all had to go through 00:34:11.010 --> 00:34:13.947 that cycle. Uh 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:21.980 the cycle of working in different areas. And so the food again, it wasn't 00:34:22.699 --> 00:34:28.927 all that good, but they were edible. There were a lot of vegetables and 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:35.206 for me personally, that's all I cared about was that, you know, there were 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:41.566 nice healthy food that came off the field that the students worked on that 00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:47.227 I helped bring into the cafeteria and then in the afternoon we would go 00:34:47.260 --> 00:34:52.086 back to class and maybe I'll be taking a math course. You know, learning 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:56.677 how to add, learning how to subtract, learning how to divide, learning how 00:34:56.710 --> 00:35:02.867 to work with numbers and all of that, maybe do a little arithmetic, uh 00:35:02.900 --> 00:35:09.867 work that was put together by the teacher. And then maybe another class, 00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:15.217 we would learn more about hygiene, something about the study of our own 00:35:15.250 --> 00:35:23.250 bodies and the kind of food that we should be eaten what food does and and 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:29.637 what it does to our body. And and then learning sudden about different 00:35:29.670 --> 00:35:33.927 sections of our of our body and all of that. And so there was a lot of 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:39.896 health related discussions. It was almost all of that instruction in 00:35:39.929 --> 00:35:46.717 english, all of that instruction was in english and uh, for those students 00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:54.750 that need it some interpretation, You had to go to a specialized 00:35:57.099 --> 00:36:05.099 bilingual person uh, to help you uh, with the teaching, but no one really 00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:10.657 , none of the students really pride themselves and going to that person 00:36:10.690 --> 00:36:15.807 because they don't want the other students to know that they weren't 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.387 really getting what they were being taught. It was kind of an 00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:26.420 embarrassment. So not many students took a, I went to that individual and 00:36:27.369 --> 00:36:32.336 you just had to blend in with the rest of the other students where we were 00:36:32.369 --> 00:36:37.606 being taught english, did they do they, you read about and hear people say 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:41.807 that at one point, they discouraged one way or another, they tried to 00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:47.497 discourage students from speaking Navajo or whatever the case might be in 00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:51.336 the, in the dorms, they kept wanting you to speak english. Was that sort 00:36:51.369 --> 00:36:56.927 of the way it was there or not at tuba City boarding school. 00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:04.960 It was a situation where the staff and the teachers discourage that and we 00:37:05.610 --> 00:37:10.896 were too small, I was too young. Two 00:37:10.929 --> 00:37:13.097 field, 00:37:13.130 --> 00:37:19.586 the brunt of that policy where, uh, they would get a little uh, stryker 00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:22.197 because 00:37:22.230 --> 00:37:30.230 I think we were just too young to really try to have the staff enforce the 00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:36.256 concept of not speaking the Navajo because in my situation I didn't really 00:37:36.289 --> 00:37:43.856 know that many english. Uh, so, so the challenge was just to learn more, 00:37:43.889 --> 00:37:51.889 more english words and I didn't really feel that at tuber city where I did 00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:57.776 feel all of that and where I did experience some of that was at phoenix 00:37:57.809 --> 00:38:04.997 indian school because by that time we were all in, In, in school, 9th, 00:38:05.030 --> 00:38:12.717 10th, 11th 12th grade and we were considered young adults and that, uh, 00:38:12.750 --> 00:38:16.467 the instructors would say, you guys know what the rules are, you don't 00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:24.267 talk Navajo and if you are her talkin neighborhood and you were punished 00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:28.396 for that and that didn't happen at Super city boarding school because we 00:38:28.429 --> 00:38:34.807 were too young, but it did happen at phoenix indian school. I'm assuming 00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:38.956 there was some hope the students who also may have attended the tuba City 00:38:38.989 --> 00:38:42.787 school, 00:38:42.820 --> 00:38:50.820 there were some students hope they were at uh, from, from Kings Canyon 00:38:51.449 --> 00:38:59.449 after going there for two or 3 years. I then uh stayed in Flagstaff, uh 00:39:00.619 --> 00:39:08.066 public school for one year and then I went to phoenix indian school and uh 00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:13.247 , at phoenix indian school, you had all tribes in Arizona, all 21 tribes 00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.717 in Arizona was a phoenix indian school. Of course, the majority of them 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:24.750 were Navajo, uh, many Hopi students, a patchy the schemas, uh, they were 00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:33.356 all all there and some other Oklahoma indian tribal members were also in 00:39:33.389 --> 00:39:38.137 the role of phoenix indian secure in phoenix indian school was a different 00:39:38.170 --> 00:39:41.387 story. Right? 00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:48.287 And, but I was just thinking given the proximity of the Hopi community, 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.836 you know, to tuba, that maybe there was some hope your kids that also 00:39:51.869 --> 00:39:58.747 might have gone to that school when you were Yeah, at a few, Yeah, at 00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:03.177 Kings Canyon, I mean at tuber City boarding school. Yeah, they were, there 00:40:03.210 --> 00:40:09.427 were hoping students there. Uh, not many, but there were some uh, and uh, 00:40:09.460 --> 00:40:14.376 and then there were some pay you students 00:40:14.409 --> 00:40:16.477 at 00:40:16.510 --> 00:40:23.486 tuba City uh huh And by did, I don't remember any of the other other 00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:28.367 tribes now, it teams. Um, there were obviously a lot of hope the students 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.847 who went went there, but there were, they're also more novels, students 00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:37.577 who went there than people often realize that uh, 00:40:37.610 --> 00:40:45.610 yeah, yeah. And, and my grandfather was there for two years in the 30s, 00:40:45.889 --> 00:40:53.889 but it was Before your, he was there in 30, about 36 and 37. So um 00:40:55.809 --> 00:41:02.336 at you talked about tuba, there was emphasis on vocational training and 00:41:02.369 --> 00:41:08.146 you continued that at phoenix indian school in terms of carpentry. Did 00:41:08.179 --> 00:41:11.677 they? Did they, 00:41:11.710 --> 00:41:16.597 You know, in the 30s and 40s, during the Collier administration, they, you 00:41:16.630 --> 00:41:21.896 know, dr William organ worked with robert young on some of those little 00:41:21.929 --> 00:41:27.416 herder in spring, those bilingual books and things like that. Did they did 00:41:27.449 --> 00:41:31.477 they did they move away from that after, 00:41:31.510 --> 00:41:37.577 you know, after the collier people were gone, they move did they placed 00:41:37.610 --> 00:41:42.497 some emphasis on, you know, trying to develop written Navajo and like a, 00:41:42.530 --> 00:41:48.106 like a fort wingate, they had some emphasis on weaving and silver smith 00:41:48.139 --> 00:41:52.736 thing. And people like ambrose their own horse and others were there, did 00:41:52.769 --> 00:41:59.177 they have any time or any emphasis on 00:41:59.210 --> 00:42:03.456 Navajo art or anything like that at all a taboo, is that just, you know, 00:42:03.489 --> 00:42:07.467 over at, over at 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:13.706 phoenix indian school, they really didn't have that uh in other words, we 00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:19.247 didn't have silver smith. And uh at phoenix indian school, I think they 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:26.517 were trying to get away from from that, that the concept of phoenix indian 00:42:26.550 --> 00:42:34.550 school was uh there are different uh kind of work that's available that 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:42.166 will be available to you in phoenix for example phoenix, the city of 00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:48.017 phoenix has grown so much so fast, that unique brick layers to build the 00:42:48.050 --> 00:42:53.887 buildings, you need electricians, unique carpenters, you need all of these 00:42:53.920 --> 00:43:00.037 uh different uh people with different skills and we're gonna train you so 00:43:00.070 --> 00:43:06.296 that when you graduate you'll just naturally fit into uh the growing city 00:43:06.329 --> 00:43:14.329 of phoenix. And uh sheet metal work uh was was very heavy, heavy because 00:43:14.690 --> 00:43:22.690 uh people were running swamp coolers and so sheet metal work was something 00:43:23.050 --> 00:43:27.967 that phoenix indian school really took pride in teaching the indian kids 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:32.287 and many of the students that graduated as sheet metal worker went right 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.396 into those jobs. And so that's what phoenix indian school was trying to, 00:43:37.429 --> 00:43:42.856 trying to do. Now. Later on, I learned that what phoenix indian school was 00:43:42.889 --> 00:43:49.407 trying to do was a little different than what the school at Fort Wingate 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:54.997 was teaching because you didn't have the same kind of environment that 00:43:55.030 --> 00:43:59.977 phoenix indian school had back over at Fort Wingate and sure, so silver 00:44:00.010 --> 00:44:07.066 smith and and these kinds of traits uh was being taught at uh at Fort 00:44:07.099 --> 00:44:12.477 Wingate and uh and what students could do with their own hands and with 00:44:12.510 --> 00:44:19.177 their own mind in terms of being creative and at phoenix indian school, it 00:44:19.210 --> 00:44:23.867 was completely different. Of course, the percentage of Navajo students 00:44:23.900 --> 00:44:28.666 have been much higher at Wingate too, wouldn't Mhm. I think then then at 00:44:28.699 --> 00:44:34.956 phoenix sending school, maybe, maybe not, but like you're your your father 00:44:34.989 --> 00:44:42.989 in law Kenneth subjugated. he went to Wingate and and I've had students 00:44:44.210 --> 00:44:48.717 look into some of the histories and they're surprised that they're like an 00:44:48.750 --> 00:44:54.767 Albuquerque indian school, there was Mhm. Some emphasis on weaving and at 00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:59.756 Wingate, they were looking into the use of vegetable, vegetable dyes and 00:44:59.789 --> 00:45:03.557 just different ways of doing things and it's sort of, 00:45:03.590 --> 00:45:07.677 you know, sort of different than the initial image you had of the school. 00:45:07.710 --> 00:45:12.606 But the curriculum you're describing for phoenix indian school sounds a 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:17.856 lot like what they were about to do an inter mountain to, that was all 00:45:17.889 --> 00:45:22.256 those students who went up there, there was very strong emphasis on 00:45:22.289 --> 00:45:27.166 vocational training and not, you know, not there was there weren't a whole 00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.267 lot of people telling you, you should think about going to college. I told 00:45:31.300 --> 00:45:35.206 my classes about how, when you decided you want to go to college, the 00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:39.157 people of phoenix indian school were not necessarily, I didn't necessarily 00:45:39.190 --> 00:45:43.256 think that was a great idea. 00:45:43.289 --> 00:45:50.577 I think that when you look at all these boarding schools like phoenix, uh 00:45:50.610 --> 00:45:56.907 Fort Wingate, Albuquerque, Inner Mountain, Sherman Institute, Sherlock, 00:45:56.940 --> 00:46:04.447 Oklahoma, all those boarding schools, they were not really geared towards 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:09.356 put in the students into colleges and university, because the concept was 00:46:09.389 --> 00:46:17.316 that we're not able capable of doing any college related work and that 00:46:17.349 --> 00:46:24.046 were more suited for working with our hands and putting us out into the uh 00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:29.506 workforce out in the community that was their goal, but there were a few 00:46:29.539 --> 00:46:34.827 students from all of these uh boarding schools that went on to college. 00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:40.847 And uh I would say that those are exceptional students, they were students 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:48.097 that made it on their own. There were intelligent people that had a 00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:53.927 different background than most of the other kids. And so that it's it's a 00:46:53.960 --> 00:47:00.247 it's for me it's just a miracle that so many of our 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:06.456 uh huh kids went through that program that may have been capable of doing 00:47:06.489 --> 00:47:13.006 college work and but they were really not never given the opportunity and 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:19.916 it's only a very few of us that saw uh different different opportunities 00:47:19.949 --> 00:47:23.396 in a different direction. And then we just kind of took advantage of those 00:47:23.429 --> 00:47:26.247 opportunities. 00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:30.177 You have to be pretty determined, you have to be pretty determined and 00:47:30.210 --> 00:47:35.456 really function on your own to find your own scholarship to find your own 00:47:35.489 --> 00:47:39.986 way to a university. No no one really helped you. There were no college 00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:43.697 scholarship, for example from the Navajo nation, right? They didn't have a 00:47:43.730 --> 00:47:47.517 scholarship program. And so when I came here and went to phoenix college 00:47:47.550 --> 00:47:51.697 and A. S. You there were no never who scholarship programs. There weren't 00:47:51.730 --> 00:47:56.907 very many Navajo students. Yeah, exactly. And that's why we only had at A 00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:02.577 . S. U. When I got here seven or eight uh ending students here on campus. 00:48:02.610 --> 00:48:06.677 Tell me a little about what it was like going to phoenix college. That as 00:48:06.710 --> 00:48:11.736 I recall of some of those buildings had just been constructed through the 00:48:11.769 --> 00:48:16.686 wPA funds and things like that, and you know, junior colleges were just 00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:21.756 sort of getting started in many ways at that time, but that was a bit of a 00:48:21.789 --> 00:48:26.197 bridge for you. I would think it was kind of a transition helped you get 00:48:26.230 --> 00:48:32.247 ready for ASU in some ways. Yeah, I I decided to go to phoenix college 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:40.106 because one, it was closer to phoenix indian school and number two, uh a 00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:46.146 coach, a basketball coach at phoenix indian school by the name of joe 00:48:46.179 --> 00:48:54.179 family elect was a family, a famous uh indian school coach 00:48:56.070 --> 00:48:58.137 that 00:48:58.170 --> 00:49:04.986 really encouraged me that I should go to phoenix college and that he had 00:49:05.019 --> 00:49:11.247 some conversation with the basketball coach there and uh and so one day 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:18.106 coach, family let uh come into his office and he says, if you want to go 00:49:18.139 --> 00:49:25.336 to finish college you can get on the coaches program and uh play some 00:49:25.369 --> 00:49:31.396 basketball there and for that in exchange for for you playing on the team 00:49:31.429 --> 00:49:39.037 , then you would be able to get uh free ticket that for your meals and 00:49:39.070 --> 00:49:47.070 tuition and books and you don't really have to pay for anything. And so I 00:49:47.550 --> 00:49:55.550 look at that and enrolled at phoenix college, where did you live? I live 00:49:55.769 --> 00:50:00.947 for, for a while, I live at phoenix indian school during the first 00:50:00.980 --> 00:50:07.977 semester, but then I had to move out, I believe it was in in december or 00:50:08.010 --> 00:50:13.646 january uh because there were more students that were coming in at phoenix 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:21.186 indian school now to leave and give my uh room to those incoming students. 00:50:21.219 --> 00:50:27.467 And so coach family, let's just pick me up and he says that you can live 00:50:27.500 --> 00:50:35.500 with us, you can we just had one spare room and you can live there and you 00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:43.477 can walk to to phoenix college. And so what I did at at phoenix indian 00:50:43.510 --> 00:50:51.387 school was that I walk every morning from 3rd Street on Indian School Road 00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:59.420 all the way to uh 16th street on thomas road. Uh 00:51:01.210 --> 00:51:07.986 and that was walking every morning. Yeah and once I once I uh made the 00:51:08.019 --> 00:51:12.706 basketball team then I got to know other players on the team. Then they 00:51:12.739 --> 00:51:17.807 gave me a right back back to the door, back to the venus in school campus 00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:25.677 , at the dormitory. And so I was able to make those kinds of arrangements 00:51:25.710 --> 00:51:30.236 by getting to know some of those players. Were there other indian players 00:51:30.269 --> 00:51:35.177 on the team. There was one other american indian uh students on the team 00:51:35.210 --> 00:51:43.210 and that's uh Rodney Lewis, Rodney Lewis uh went to North high school and 00:51:44.730 --> 00:51:52.307 he was one of the better players in the city of phoenix back then and did 00:51:52.340 --> 00:51:58.747 very very well, this is from the well known family. It yeah, yeah, he is 00:51:58.780 --> 00:52:06.780 uh from hell a river a member a member of the tribe and his father was 00:52:07.949 --> 00:52:15.276 preacher there at indian school, he had a church there and uh many of the 00:52:15.309 --> 00:52:21.137 indian school kids went to his church and uh just a really good solid 00:52:21.170 --> 00:52:29.170 family and they really believe in in education and so Rodney Lewis had had 00:52:29.210 --> 00:52:36.217 a good background because his family was so strong in community affairs 00:52:36.250 --> 00:52:43.517 work with many, many of the indian people here in city of phoenix. 00:52:43.550 --> 00:52:49.497 And for the basketball team. What was your what was your strength as a 00:52:49.530 --> 00:52:55.006 player? What did you especially like about basketball or part of the game 00:52:55.039 --> 00:53:03.039 ? Yeah, I I played on the team, I made, I made the team and unfortunately 00:53:06.829 --> 00:53:14.646 during the season uh I really got beaten up, my tooth was knocked out and 00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:20.126 the first time I lost my front tooth and uh and I had to it was broken in 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:28.159 half and I had to go through uh phoenix and then uh hospital to take care 00:53:28.300 --> 00:53:35.336 of. And then the other thing was that uh my ankle, uh I had a broken ankle 00:53:35.369 --> 00:53:41.537 right at the lower half of my ankle in high school. And uh and that never 00:53:41.570 --> 00:53:49.336 really healed up, it was always with me. Uh the doctor was advising me 00:53:49.369 --> 00:53:56.316 that when you break an ankle like that and you you stay in bed and uh and 00:53:56.349 --> 00:54:01.657 you stay in bed for so long, you get tired of staying in bed and then 00:54:01.690 --> 00:54:07.747 sometimes you think you get well so you you start using your your your 00:54:07.780 --> 00:54:13.606 feet again, you start walking again and yes, the first day it won't hurt. 00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:18.486 And uh but what you're really really doing is that you're using it before 00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:24.276 it gets completely healed and uh and if you keep on using it and keeping 00:54:24.309 --> 00:54:32.309 on using it, it never really really heals up and so you're just damaging 00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:38.856 your ankle. Well when I was at phoenix college, I sprang my ankle in the 00:54:38.889 --> 00:54:46.626 on the same side in the same place and that was really painful. It was the 00:54:46.659 --> 00:54:53.606 most painful thing that I ever experienced at nights. It would swell up 00:54:53.639 --> 00:55:01.017 and and the doctor says that you're just going through a lot of uh painful 00:55:01.050 --> 00:55:08.206 process towards uh healing your ankle. And uh and that the the only thing 00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:13.186 that they could do was just give me some strong medicine to take care of 00:55:13.219 --> 00:55:21.006 the pain and they don't actually really treat it and yes, I did have a 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:29.039 a brace that they put on uh and but then uh you get tired of that too. And 00:55:31.349 --> 00:55:39.157 so uh you end up taking it off because because you can't wear shoes. And 00:55:39.190 --> 00:55:44.287 so you you you get tired of that too. And so that's what happened to me uh 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:50.997 at phoenix college and I end up uh dropping out towards the middle or 2/3 00:55:51.030 --> 00:55:58.106 of the season. And so that that's what happened 00:55:58.139 --> 00:56:04.037 and when you decided to come to S. U. Which I guess wasn't he wasn't asked 00:56:04.070 --> 00:56:08.947 you yet as the did you think at all about going somewhere else to school 00:56:08.980 --> 00:56:14.827 or just because it was the nearby, I didn't really think about going Uh 00:56:14.860 --> 00:56:20.396 anywhere else. I enrolled at Phoenix College in 1958 00:56:20.429 --> 00:56:25.606 and I went to school therefore two years for a year and a half or two 00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:33.639 years. And then uh in 1960 I came to ASU. And I really did not think about 00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:42.037 going anywhere else except to go to A. S. U. And uh and that was because I 00:56:42.070 --> 00:56:48.597 knew people here in the city of phoenix And I had some support from other 00:56:48.630 --> 00:56:54.927 people that that that I knew here in Phoenix that I could rely on and I 00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:01.427 couldn't rely on my parents because they weren't working, they were living 00:57:01.460 --> 00:57:08.767 330 miles away from Phoenix on the Navajo nation. And so you had to learn 00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:15.816 how to shift for yourself and you know, I didn't have a scholarship but I 00:57:15.849 --> 00:57:21.327 went to A. S. U. And I told him I could work, you guys need help and I 00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:27.706 could work here and all I want to do is take some courses uh and trying to 00:57:27.739 --> 00:57:32.387 extend my education and what I have earned it at phoenix college, I want 00:57:32.420 --> 00:57:35.717 to add on to it and get my degree in education and go back to an 00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:41.197 examination as a teacher. That was my goal and 00:57:41.230 --> 00:57:46.206 it was something that I really really focus on. That was what I wanted to 00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:52.597 uh from A. S. U. And S. You responded and they put me to work. That's just 00:57:52.630 --> 00:57:56.997 where there can you think about one or two people who made a difference 00:57:57.030 --> 00:58:02.597 for you who were part of the staff faculty or somewhere at ASU that helped 00:58:02.630 --> 00:58:06.867 you a little bit and getting making that transition and moving on with 00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:14.026 your studies? Well I would credit uh coach family from transitioning me 00:58:14.059 --> 00:58:20.637 from the phoenix indian school concept over to phoenix college because 00:58:20.670 --> 00:58:27.646 he's he offered his house, he offered his home. And uh and so I was able 00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:33.396 to stay there until I finish it in his college. And then when I went to a 00:58:33.429 --> 00:58:41.307 . s. U. in 1960 uh bob Russell was here, bob Russell was just a young man 00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:47.126 getting his degree uh here at A. S. U. Working on his doctoral degree here 00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:52.697 at issue at the same time he was also an associate professor and education 00:58:52.730 --> 00:58:59.166 in education. And he was one individual that also helped me kind of showed 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:05.796 me uh campus and some of the people that I need to know that could be of 00:59:05.829 --> 00:59:13.829 some help. So he was very very helpful and I owe a lot to uh the late dr 00:59:13.929 --> 00:59:21.929 Russell and the other person that people never really ever heard about. 00:59:22.630 --> 00:59:30.630 But in my own mind he was also very very helpful. Was a guy named keegan, 00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:38.907 I don't remember his first name, but he was a professor here uh in 00:59:38.940 --> 00:59:42.887 industrial arts. 00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:49.646 He kind of took an individual interest in me because I was different in 00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:57.679 his class, I was completely different than the other students. And and he 00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:04.787 uh saw my work what I was capable of doing and uh and the work that I was 01:00:04.820 --> 01:00:08.287 performing in his class was also a little different than the rest of the 01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:16.320 other student. He was an industrial arts teacher where uh for example one 01:00:18.429 --> 01:00:24.747 of the courses that he was teaching was what they call finishing uh where 01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:30.166 you work with metal and you finish uh 01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:36.186 do finish work fine work when you well things together and make sure that 01:00:36.219 --> 01:00:44.219 it holds and is strong and then you sand it off with a sander and then you 01:00:44.579 --> 01:00:48.727 finish all of that and make sure whatever it is that you put on is also 01:00:48.760 --> 01:00:53.767 something that stays on. And he taught the same thing with with the 01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:59.657 different kinds of wood and how you finish and what materials you use to 01:00:59.690 --> 01:01:07.396 finish with. And uh some of it had to go into cabinet making and design in 01:01:07.429 --> 01:01:15.429 different things and how the factory uh design uh different things that we 01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:23.367 we use in their homes. And uh and so he he talked that he also taught uh 01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:31.400 finishing work on cars, vehicle, how you can redo your the body of a car 01:01:32.739 --> 01:01:39.706 and uh and then how you can paint it and what you have to use and so a lot 01:01:39.739 --> 01:01:47.739 of handwork and I guess Professor keegan, I saw that 01:01:48.809 --> 01:01:54.177 I like doing that kind of work. And so he kind of gave me some some extra 01:01:54.210 --> 01:02:01.617 work that I could do to improve my grades for example. And so, uh, he's 01:02:01.650 --> 01:02:04.776 still around, he comes around every once in a while. He was just a great, 01:02:04.809 --> 01:02:12.166 great person. 01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:19.666 And yeah, so we're about at that time I guess. Um, we can pick up from 01:02:19.699 --> 01:02:26.927 here. Okay. Why don't we do this? Uh, maybe what we'll do is you and I get 01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:34.606 together on a time again and then let's, let's just talk about the future. 01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:42.166 The challenges on the Navajo for example, education and what where it's 01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:48.526 at right now where I think it should go and then uh, economic development 01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:53.336 where it's at now and where it should go. The population, urbanizing 01:02:53.369 --> 01:02:58.867 neighborhood communities and where it's at now. And the struggle that it 01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:03.267 went through the Navajo nation where where it's headed. I think those will 01:03:03.300 --> 01:03:11.300 be very very good. Good. Good. Okay. Okay. 01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:20.900 I'll get keegan's Doctor keegan's first name. Uh huh. 01:03:20.900 --> 01:03:26.467 And the correct spelling of his name. Okay. 01:03:26.500 --> 01:03:31.287 I really enjoyed good this today. I hope you did. It was, I thought it was 01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:36.807 there was something I learned I didn't know about and it reminds you how 01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:43.807 much difference an individual can make in your life, you know, just, we 01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:50.307 all have our heroes, every one of us. Yeah. Uh mine were those three 01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:54.166 individuals, 01:03:54.199 --> 01:04:01.037 I remember when I first arrived at at NCC and I met bob and you know, he 01:04:01.070 --> 01:04:05.637 had a big voice, you know, 01:04:05.670 --> 01:04:13.670 and all that enthusiasm and uh all the rest, all that energy. Yeah. He 01:04:14.460 --> 01:04:20.146 sure had that, I'll say. And I just, you know, first I met ruth and met 01:04:20.179 --> 01:04:25.956 other people from the the family. And 01:04:25.989 --> 01:04:32.307 yeah, I was so, I was so lucky to have that experience and but I can just 01:04:32.340 --> 01:04:37.606 see bob kind of taking you in hand and saying, okay, you know what? You 01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:43.557 can do it in other words. Yeah, good for him. Okay. Okay. Thank you very 01:04:43.590 --> 01:04:50.586 much. You'll go look at your calendar and figure out what next next week 01:04:50.619 --> 01:04:55.356 it can't be next. It can't be this month because next week I'll be fine 01:04:55.389 --> 01:04:59.157 being in Flagstaff on Wednesday 01:04:59.190 --> 01:05:04.947 and then I'm going to wallop I reservation. So then the following year 01:05:04.980 --> 01:05:09.827 we're getting into the first of january. Okay, well sometime sometime in 01:05:09.860 --> 01:05:14.626 january would be great. Ok. And what I'll try to do is is to listen to the 01:05:14.659 --> 01:05:18.186 tapes, you know, between now and then and kind of get a sense of where 01:05:18.219 --> 01:05:22.347 we've been and all the rest of it, but I really enjoyed today. So thank 01:05:22.380 --> 01:05:30.380 you. Okay. Including my friend. All right. 01:06:12.789 --> 01:06:17.106 Talk more personally. Yeah. Yeah. That was really he had his own 01:06:17.139 --> 01:06:23.347 experiences going to school and uh stuff like that. That's excellent. Well 01:06:23.380 --> 01:06:26.590 sometimes it takes a while probably.