WEBVTT 00:00:01.139 --> 00:00:03.707 123 00:00:03.740 --> 00:00:06.976 27 00:00:07.009 --> 00:00:14.256 September 28 2004 Sonora Arizona Roy Nelson. And since we have Roy's bio 00:00:14.289 --> 00:00:18.986 and education, we have his oral history. He did the federal government 00:00:19.019 --> 00:00:26.346 will forego that material which is under pretty well documented and for 00:00:26.379 --> 00:00:30.477 the purposes of the Royal Collection of Arizona Historical foundation at 00:00:30.510 --> 00:00:37.116 Arizona State University of one of the things that that struck me, Roy was 00:00:37.149 --> 00:00:41.217 your organizational style with your logs in the color coding. It could you 00:00:41.250 --> 00:00:48.436 go over that again? Just so you don't forget it helps. Well uh Back in 19 00:00:48.469 --> 00:00:56.469 after Kennedy was elected in 1961 and inaugurated. Mhm I used to get a 00:00:56.649 --> 00:01:03.336 stack from the receptionist and the people answered a form of messages and 00:01:03.369 --> 00:01:07.507 I tried to call them all back but you know, there wasn't that much time. 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:13.867 Hello I one had 500 case files. People from the Truman days and without 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:18.417 wanting their jobs back and things like that. So I was getting criticized 00:01:18.450 --> 00:01:22.326 in the senator was getting criticized because you needed one of us were 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:28.406 returning calls. So I made up this log and I started but an innocent be 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:36.066 sometimes 1961. I started a log and I since refined it a lot but I kept it 00:01:36.099 --> 00:01:40.257 daily and it was real easy. I had to have the all the messages and I went 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:46.637 to the receptionist and all the girls who were receiving calls for the 00:01:46.670 --> 00:01:51.007 senator and for me and so 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:56.816 yeah, um I would at the end of the day go over him and those colors that I 00:01:56.849 --> 00:02:01.436 hadn't returned. I'd put them on on my log to return first thing the next 00:02:01.469 --> 00:02:07.176 day. All right. And that's how it's sort of started. And then I started 00:02:07.209 --> 00:02:15.209 keeping it where I um I would keep all of my credit card records there. I 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:19.647 would type on the back things that I wanted to remember. Just short notes 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:26.807 , you know, to remind me of what is about. Yeah. And but I've kept them 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:34.840 since then. And now I have a color coordinated. Uh all the everything in 00:02:34.969 --> 00:02:39.656 red is a long distance call. Everything in blue is seeing someone or a 00:02:39.689 --> 00:02:47.376 meeting or uh man stopping by someplace or like the post office, anything 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:55.006 like that. And then black is anything in black local calls wherever local 00:02:55.039 --> 00:03:01.816 was. And on the log I would right where I was. And I also kept track of 00:03:01.849 --> 00:03:08.696 the weather and or lab and than anything in green were either 00:03:08.729 --> 00:03:16.729 correspondence memorandums. Um All right emails and all that that's all 00:03:18.969 --> 00:03:25.696 recent of course. But that's but that's how they're organized. So you can 00:03:25.729 --> 00:03:29.946 look pretty much and I can look at it and pretty much tell how my day is 00:03:29.979 --> 00:03:35.066 gone. Well, your papers are going to go along with Senator Goldwater will 00:03:35.099 --> 00:03:39.207 be next door of course with Senator Hayden's and all that. So everything 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:43.446 is close to where, but you'll be uh well you have some of my stuff there 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:48.497 already. Yes. And uh like you have those letters from Jack more fulsome 00:03:48.530 --> 00:03:52.087 more. Yeah man, those are wonderful letters. I don't know whether he 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:59.267 looked at him and and uh just for the record here false and more the 00:03:59.300 --> 00:04:05.237 editor basically Bisbee gulch because that, you know, he but you know, he 00:04:05.270 --> 00:04:09.117 ran the state legislature pretty much during the thirties and forties and 00:04:09.150 --> 00:04:12.946 part of the fifty's kind of an early herald gifts in a way. Oh he was much 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:18.467 more than he really make Harold. Guess what the hell? Yeah. Okay. You know 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:22.327 , he worked for the mines, but nevertheless he knew more, you hung out at 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:27.226 the Adams hotel every time the legislature than some session that some guy 00:04:27.259 --> 00:04:33.817 knew more about. Mhm. Politics and anyone I've ever met in Arizona. He no 00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:37.147 , he called the senator's election within a couple 100 votes in every 00:04:37.180 --> 00:04:44.166 county boy. And in my two races also he was a hell of a guy, ugly other 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:49.627 sin. But you know, but he knew this state backwards and forwards and he 00:04:49.660 --> 00:04:54.467 just left. He was a great friend of the senators and of course he doesn't 00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:59.916 want to sort of got us involved in so much in forward. You could well, you 00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:06.786 know, it will be, he was sort of a mayor down there and when the senator 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:10.796 came home we had to make a trip for what you could hell. I don't know how 00:05:10.829 --> 00:05:16.777 many times a year I would make a trip to to fort huachuca or back to 00:05:16.810 --> 00:05:21.306 Arizona was out here and, and also 00:05:21.339 --> 00:05:25.257 appropriation staff members. You know, we send them out here, so call, you 00:05:25.290 --> 00:05:28.897 can build that place, you know, from and he made sure it was permanent 00:05:28.930 --> 00:05:34.087 barracks. And of course you got moved all the stuff from Fort Monmouth 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:38.796 down here, that electronic stuff. And now it's like the pretty important. 00:05:38.829 --> 00:05:44.106 Yeah. Uh, 00:05:44.139 --> 00:05:49.406 there was something I wanted to ask about more. Um, 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:55.250 He was one of the three that talked me into running Eugene Pulliam. Okay. 00:05:55.540 --> 00:05:57.540 Who got me aside at a reception, advanced Sharky's house when he was back 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:06.806 there for a publishers or editors, some newspaper meeting. Huh? 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:14.839 Jack moore and Carl Hayden and they were all Christ, they were all over 80 00:06:17.290 --> 00:06:25.290 , I think Eugene Polio. Um, you lived in earlier today and I like to hear 00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:31.017 it again. Uh, he had a very close just reading the new with Marlon 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:35.496 biography that just came out. You mentioned at least three times in that 00:06:35.529 --> 00:06:42.077 narrative, Uh, that you uh, the election is very close. I get 241-27. It's 00:06:42.110 --> 00:06:48.127 really 13,000 something uh, namely absentee ballots really couldn't get 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:53.796 close enough to steal. Bringing me like, and he mentioned Poland's role in 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:56.656 that, would you go over that again and the role of his wife played and all 00:06:56.689 --> 00:07:03.116 that well. And uh, I promised you, Yeah. Well, first of all, I probably 00:07:03.149 --> 00:07:10.437 should preface it by saying, I got to know Eugene Pulliam manny through 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:15.226 tom Sullivan who introduced me, you know, he was a former 00:07:15.259 --> 00:07:18.207 county manager. 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:23.007 And uh, but I went to see him when I first went to see him, I was there 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:28.346 too. I really was prepared because I was right there ready to threaten him 00:07:28.379 --> 00:07:32.486 with, with their joint on your ownership and all the other things in the 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:39.437 Justice Department that research that really good. And uh, This was when I 00:07:39.470 --> 00:07:45.187 was putting together Carl Hayden's campaign 62 9. And so when I went in 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:49.587 the same as really prepared for bear and I was sort of braised and then, 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:55.457 and, and people said, I had mean eyes and I was prepared to do whatever is 00:07:55.490 --> 00:08:02.837 necessary to get Carl Hayden elected. But uh, when I said yes in front of 00:08:02.870 --> 00:08:08.027 his desk, he had his crew cut and I had my crew cot and he said, what are 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:12.906 you here for? A young man? And I said, well, you're the first to know, but 00:08:12.939 --> 00:08:19.147 Karl Heinz gonna seek another term and I need to know where you're going 00:08:19.180 --> 00:08:23.616 to be if he rented a game. And when he runs again, whether you're going to 00:08:23.649 --> 00:08:29.217 support him or those, he must have most democrats alone christ, I couldn't 00:08:29.250 --> 00:08:32.037 hardly get that out of my mouth. And he started telling me what great 00:08:32.070 --> 00:08:34.797 things Carl Hayden had done for Arizona. And he says, there's no question 00:08:34.830 --> 00:08:41.896 , where will be, will be there. And from that, I never had to open the 00:08:41.929 --> 00:08:47.506 mouth and say anything. You know, you never knew I had all these notes in 00:08:47.539 --> 00:08:54.616 my pocket. And anyhow, he, so we became particularly during that campaign 00:08:54.649 --> 00:08:58.557 because of senator, as you know, only get home for that Opening his office 00:08:58.590 --> 00:09:02.827 as he was coming out here, I think five days and then spent the last 13 00:09:02.860 --> 00:09:06.136 days in the hospital. And because, you know, it was a urinary tract 00:09:06.169 --> 00:09:12.197 infection. And so it was an unusual campaign, as you, well documented in 00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:17.707 your own stuff. But um, 00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:25.207 when I lost, when I knew I'd lost, the first race was won against Fannin, 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:33.240 um, my brother was there and you put it on pause and thank you. Okay. Yeah. 00:09:36.539 --> 00:09:42.106 I think my oldest brother Edward was there as well as senator. When 00:09:42.139 --> 00:09:50.139 Pulliam uhh, promised me a front page editorial above the fold descending 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:58.366 before the election. Well, when that sunday came, uhh there was a 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:06.399 editorial above the fold endorsing both me and paul fan. So, uh, and when 00:10:10.269 --> 00:10:18.269 I knew I had lost and I think we were headquartered at Western ho and and 00:10:18.539 --> 00:10:23.126 the highest compliment I think I had from the old man was that when I talk 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:28.126 to me, it was all over and he could go to bed if he wanted to him, he 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:32.787 looked at me and he said, you're just one hell of a man, young man, Nice 00:10:32.820 --> 00:10:40.820 story. Yeah, terry about it. But anyhow, Pulliam came by the house, we're 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:47.907 running an apartment at the time. And my wife and I then wife and he and 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:53.266 nine I came by the house and the country club apartments there right 00:10:53.299 --> 00:11:01.299 across from the phoenix country club sir. Yes. And said if last thing okay 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:08.646 , you know, he ever that he will see me in the United States Senate. And I 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:14.057 said, well you just had your chance and Mhm. You blew it as far as I'm 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:20.896 concerned. Yeah. Anyhow, I was curious and it was full some more. Yeah, 00:11:20.929 --> 00:11:28.929 ran down how it ended up being a joint endorsement instead of just me and 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:36.827 Uh huh. Where Mrs Fannin and you got to mrs loose because they all went to 00:11:36.860 --> 00:11:42.057 maine chance and all that together who got the main employee um who's got 00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:47.506 jean Pulliam and so 00:11:47.539 --> 00:11:52.537 I know he felt guilty about it, but it was too late then. And of course a 00:11:52.570 --> 00:11:59.366 front page editorial in those days from at that time and only me and get 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:04.457 that close to an election. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think he would 00:12:04.490 --> 00:12:10.106 have switched that many votes in in America to county. Well, we're going 00:12:10.139 --> 00:12:14.567 to process your stuff quickly. It's a big priority for for us. And uh 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:19.697 we'll be along your papers will be with Senator Goldwater's famines, shad 00:12:19.730 --> 00:12:25.396 eggs, some of the major operators in the late 20th century. Uh there's on 00:12:25.429 --> 00:12:29.776 the politics and you have, we have some beacons recall stuff, stuff went 00:12:29.809 --> 00:12:33.636 over to dan. I arranged that before I took this job. I wouldn't have done 00:12:33.669 --> 00:12:38.496 that. But uh but you know his governors papers or the governor's but his 00:12:38.529 --> 00:12:42.366 car dealership and other stuff went next door, which is which is fine just 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:47.567 as long as they're preserved and processed. Um and I want to talk a little 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:54.437 bit about two topics. One is the Goldwater uh Rosenzweig situation from 00:12:54.470 --> 00:12:59.366 your perspective because we have a collection of stuff about the I. R. E. 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:06.736 And all of that don Bolles situation and all of that. And someone had the 00:13:06.769 --> 00:13:09.846 paper stuff and we have the news. We have some newspaper stuff and I think 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.467 linda will tell you after we talk. But I want to, I just want your 00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:16.386 perspective on those guys. One and two. I want I'm doing a project on 00:13:16.419 --> 00:13:20.006 Snell and Wilmer on Mark Wilbur in the Arizona versus California case and 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.776 your comments about how important that case was to your work on C. A. P. 00:13:24.809 --> 00:13:28.337 And everything else will be important. But let's start with the first one 00:13:28.370 --> 00:13:33.476 first. Then we'll get to Mark Wilmer and Arizona California. Uh Yeah, you 00:13:33.509 --> 00:13:38.626 ran against Senator Goldwater 68. That's well documented. But uh Harry 00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:44.547 Rosenzweig is I get to know the Goldwater papers emerges as an interesting 00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:49.337 and complex figure. I'll just put it that way and I want you to talk about 00:13:49.370 --> 00:13:57.307 that and reflect on what, what happened, what was going on there. Well, 00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:02.437 you know, he and barry were very close and without question and they learn 00:14:02.470 --> 00:14:08.067 a lot of things together but went to las Vegas a lot together. They knew 00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:14.577 all the better the people that were assassinated in phoenix, you know, 00:14:14.610 --> 00:14:21.356 looking what was the name? Greenbaum, Yeah. Screen bob, Yeah. And Harry 00:14:21.389 --> 00:14:27.496 was always an interesting guy. I never really didn't know him that well 00:14:27.529 --> 00:14:32.776 though. I met him in a number of times, but 00:14:32.809 --> 00:14:40.809 I know for pretty reliable and he ran a call girl operation in America 00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:46.907 economy didn't barry run as a reform candidate that stuff. I think he said 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:52.626 something like God, if I run a run for this 00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:59.626 business that yeah, very definitely. Was that an open secret, I don't know 00:14:59.659 --> 00:15:06.606 , I guess people don't just wake at it for a number of people that I knew 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:13.776 felt were very reliable sources knew or claimed to know. And and I'm 00:15:13.809 --> 00:15:20.317 probably sure from firsthand experience that I encountered one of you want 00:15:20.350 --> 00:15:25.866 to elaborate on that or said, well newspapers or uh no, it's not on those 00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:31.356 newspapers. But you know, I have, I remember when I was running in 64, you 00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:36.236 know, I got all those lawsuits filed against me, her over that bank 00:15:36.269 --> 00:15:40.496 charter involving the Halderman's and and all those people who were 00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:45.476 involved in that. And I asked Rohan, you know, it was kind of attorney 00:15:45.509 --> 00:15:50.817 then for you to investigate the mob out here and but did I ever tell you 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:57.486 about taking records from the from the Arizona Corporation commission? No 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:05.519 , it's telling about it now. Well, christmas eve 19 63 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:14.217 and I've been getting a gift for minor my then wife and run into a guy by 00:16:14.250 --> 00:16:19.337 name of joseph Sotelo from hell Okami, but he was also the head of the 00:16:19.370 --> 00:16:23.787 Securities Division Arizona Corporation Commission 00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:28.356 and he says, comes up to me, he says Roy, what are you doing back here in 00:16:28.389 --> 00:16:33.776 Washington on this Liberty Bank or whatever it was called? Yeah. And I 00:16:33.809 --> 00:16:36.717 said what do you mean? He says, don't he said don't you know who these 00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:40.837 people are. And I said, well joe Haldeman and I named off the board of 00:16:40.870 --> 00:16:44.636 directors and all that. He named his attitude guys and he said, well I 00:16:44.669 --> 00:16:49.157 thought they were just consultants, you know. Yeah, I met him and he says 00:16:49.190 --> 00:16:53.407 , well, jesus, because we've had him under investigation for six months 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.457 and where the Williams boys were on the commission at that time and they 00:16:57.490 --> 00:17:03.506 were trying to two to suppress the investigation 00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:08.617 anyhow. I said joe you've got to be joking. I got the senators on this 00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:12.016 bank charter, I've got too much. So I told him how to put it together, I 00:17:12.049 --> 00:17:15.806 got it off to Denver, it's on, it's back, it's back in Washington out, 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.607 I've got the senator his neck out on the line and say I know tomorrow's 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:24.117 christmas, but if you have to open your presence and do that, could we 00:17:24.150 --> 00:17:28.907 meet again. And so we met and he told me the whole story. 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:35.627 So what we did was I got a number of attorneys and with joe's help, we 00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:40.907 went and stole all the records from the Arizona corporation commission 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:47.806 involving this investigation, Seal them, you know, kept the chain record, 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:53.256 put him on, took him back to Washington and uh, turn it over to the 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:59.927 control of the currency, the FBI, a treasury department and then the ship 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:06.607 hit the fan. You know, God, then I was under investigation 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:11.207 and I know it was just a mess. I don't know. That's an interesting part of 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.736 your colorful career that I wasn't really aware of. How did, what was the 00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:19.407 outcome? What happened? Oh, well 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:24.187 the day we turned over the records, if paxton, I think it was control of 00:18:24.220 --> 00:18:28.607 the currency than under Kennedy. And he was the one of his Granting new 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.066 national charters around the country for the first time in 20 years or 00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:37.387 something like that. Yeah. Hey al this is on his desk to be signed and I 00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:43.486 got this in their lap if he was a day late getting back to time. So he had 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:50.447 had, I hadn't signed it and thank God because it was tied into the west 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:55.576 coast mafia and over to Switzerland and you know, they had pictures of joe 00:18:55.609 --> 00:19:00.506 haldeman who was gay. You know, they had him and compromising 00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:07.107 and walter Jenkins. Oh yeah, just you know, it was just a nightmare. And 00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:11.437 so let's you know, I spend half my time with attorneys, you know because 00:19:11.470 --> 00:19:16.667 we were senator. I was sued over that bank charter because they supposedly 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:20.857 Halderman was claiming I shake them down for friday and and everything 00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:26.226 else and the senator and that's where I mentioned here in Canada. He said 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:31.506 he'd get me there because O'Connor Jim O'Connor handled all other lawsuits 00:19:31.539 --> 00:19:37.107 and Kavanaugh and they 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:39.607 um 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:43.076 did a great job and we either got judgments on the pleadings or they were 00:19:43.109 --> 00:19:46.766 thrown out of court and everything else. But it was a nightmare cuts as 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.887 soon as I announced that the lawsuit started having as soon as I announced 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:54.617 that I was writing, oh and while I was shooting here I thought I was 00:19:54.650 --> 00:20:00.127 halfway nice guy and a man. But I think we even got sued for a total of 87 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.137 millions of dollars. And I remember walking down the hall with a senator 00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:08.667 when it got up to around 25 million or something like that. And many said 00:20:08.700 --> 00:20:14.137 senator, we've got to answer these complaints. Do you want me to get you 00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:18.006 an attorney and I'll get an attorney or you want to use the same one and 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.187 and we were walking down that long quarter, don't towards the elevator to 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:28.986 go to the capitol. This is Roy, don't worry if you can't pay it. I will. 00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:33.867 yeah. Just getting of course, 00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.506 anyhow, 00:20:37.539 --> 00:20:42.506 it's just this little uh 00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:49.086 okay toward Yeah, well that's like saying, well, uh he went back to 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:55.207 Washington and you were uh senator said that he was joking on, he doesn't 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:59.867 have any money. Oh, money. So I got up to the same between, that's when I 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:04.796 got jim McConnell and cabinet to represent us and Jim O'Connor did most of 00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:10.367 the work. So we got Judgment on the pleadings and they were thrown out of 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:16.357 court, but eventually I think total of some 87 millions of dollars. They 00:21:16.390 --> 00:21:20.417 were also responsible for the car girl. I remember it was against me and 00:21:20.450 --> 00:21:25.697 so those are the guys. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's an interesting I think 00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:29.897 that I do want to follow up. I talked my clothes there, didn't, I could 00:21:29.930 --> 00:21:35.617 get it on credit. Yeah. And I've got some of that down. Let me want to 00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:39.607 follow up here and then we'll stop and take a break for a second. You want 00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:44.607 a drink or something? I'm good. I need to show yourself 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:49.486 Dennis Deconcini in the comparative framework had to pay our money. He's 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:53.036 pretty tight. You know, he's a pretty tight. You know how tight he is. 00:21:53.069 --> 00:21:58.276 That's kind of legendary. I'm learning even after ghost writing and stuff. 00:21:58.309 --> 00:22:03.397 And how much did you have to pay to come out of your pocket? Did you Have 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:10.766 to spend money in this 63 64 case or Oh no they did it pro boner. Okay. 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:18.799 Hold it didn't cost the Senator Army. Okay, okay. All right, so that's an 00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:26.546 interesting thing and a bad harry cabin novel maybe forward some of that 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:32.437 stuff forget something because you know Jim O'Connor died quite a long 00:22:32.470 --> 00:22:39.947 time ago. Um No, do you know anything about one thing is that we're 00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:44.066 getting to know Goldwater a lot better and we're driving down and what is 00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:49.236 this one guy and he's kind of a prick on the other hand, you know his wife 00:22:49.269 --> 00:22:52.726 is an alcoholic and he just kind of be able to the kids. Two of the kids 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:58.137 are on my board girl kind of screwed up and they seem to be in need of 00:22:58.170 --> 00:23:02.207 money. I don't know how careful the guy he was. There was this one very 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.437 little water and another and repeatedly we have this collection called the 00:23:06.470 --> 00:23:10.246 Rich Robertson collection. Just there's a guy named Dave Wagner. He 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:15.046 started doing some work on deal. Who was the real estate fraud guy? Deal. 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:20.717 Then Warren Warren some of that stuff and there's this guy is a former 00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:23.796 Arizona Republic editor and he's now retired now he's going into this 00:23:23.829 --> 00:23:29.197 stuff, you know his name is Dave Wagner, no one is more of a water guy 00:23:29.230 --> 00:23:35.306 turned real right wing. Oh has it? I know, but this guy is looking at 00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:37.907 someone 00:23:37.940 --> 00:23:41.867 got all the, everything on the bulls killing and it looks like it's old 00:23:41.900 --> 00:23:46.496 water or something like that. And they were very concerned about it now to 00:23:46.529 --> 00:23:51.766 do anything about that. Anything about Goldwater become seem to think so. 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:57.377 He doesn't think that that should be in jail. Well I knew dawn. No, Don 00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:04.347 Bowl was quite well and seen him just before he okay the explosion 00:24:04.380 --> 00:24:06.707 and 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:10.026 I thought he was a hell of an investigative reporter and he was on to a 00:24:10.059 --> 00:24:15.697 lot of stuff, you know involved in a, yeah, a retirement community meaning 00:24:15.730 --> 00:24:22.607 the mom, you know organized crime. And of course they all sort of try to 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:28.607 put the blame on that on kemper Marley and it doesn't look like it's true. 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:33.597 No, I don't think so. And of course camper was a big friend of the 00:24:33.630 --> 00:24:37.336 senators and he also supported my campaign but I really didn't know him 00:24:37.369 --> 00:24:41.387 for that well. But the senator did. Senator didn't believe that he had 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:49.306 anything to do with it. But uh but I know that 00:24:49.339 --> 00:24:54.476 you know when they had that team out here of all the reporters from around 00:24:54.509 --> 00:24:59.486 the country, I was back in Washington but everyone was sending me 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:06.207 clippings of all the latest and I can tell you 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:11.986 uh they had, well I was in the Savoy but on a different apartment that 00:25:12.019 --> 00:25:16.607 time back and I 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:24.640 was but I had a desk desk next to my bed and when I couldn't sleep her if 00:25:25.089 --> 00:25:30.076 I didn't want to sleep. I get up and read and sit at the desk. I'm a 00:25:30.109 --> 00:25:35.506 typewriter and I started reading some of these clippings 00:25:35.539 --> 00:25:42.867 and I read one and chills went up and now my swine because it was name of 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:45.506 a person 00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:53.539 who was from the purple gang in Detroit. I think it was. Yeah, 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:56.607 I 00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.506 I had met his wife. 00:25:59.539 --> 00:26:05.566 Sure you want this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was visiting my brother Dean when 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:11.697 he was head of the FBI in uh Nevada, there's a door in the sixties late 00:26:11.730 --> 00:26:14.207 and 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:22.026 right um Anyhow, Dean took me to the airport and I was visiting and I was 00:26:22.059 --> 00:26:27.867 flying on man's airline back to phoenix. Well I was the last one board an 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:33.407 airplane but just come in the next to the last game, gorgeous. Yeah, 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:38.907 dragging your a full length fur coat on a tarp back. 00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:46.677 Well she went by my brother and I and and he said man that got someone 00:26:46.710 --> 00:26:54.710 funny heaven anyhow. Uh huh. When I got on the airplane, the only seat 00:26:55.170 --> 00:27:02.766 available was next to her. So between las Vegas and phoenix we got very 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.917 well acquainted and she gave me her phone number because I said maybe that 00:27:06.950 --> 00:27:12.506 went someday I come back to Arizona frequently 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:17.306 and she did in the first time I called her um 00:27:17.339 --> 00:27:21.786 she says where are you staying? And I was in Scottsdale discussed Elliot 00:27:21.819 --> 00:27:28.407 or someplace. What's your room number? Mhm. He says I'll meet you there. 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:34.357 The wildest goddamn, I've never encountered anything like that. Just 00:27:34.390 --> 00:27:42.390 incredible mess bodies. Affirm just she was a gymnast. I mean, again, 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:47.746 anyhow, this went on for, I don't know. Every time we came out. Well, then 00:27:47.779 --> 00:27:53.177 I found out her, you know, she's married and her husband was he was an 00:27:53.210 --> 00:28:00.137 older man, goddamn lobster. I can't. I got his name down somewhere, but I 00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:03.006 read about that because his name was mentioned in connection with the 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:09.407 bulls singing all around and after What am I have been doing? You know, 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:15.826 you can kill, Yeah, put you on meat hooks. You know, things like that. 00:28:15.859 --> 00:28:20.947 Well, that's that's interesting. I just we're tired of that, But, you know 00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:26.867 , no direct ties with. All right. All right. Harry Rosenzweig or anything 00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:34.900 like it was a false case. Yeah, No, I you should. And, uh, then you had 00:28:34.970 --> 00:28:37.296 since you went to school. What was your relationship with him? What did 00:28:37.329 --> 00:28:43.086 you think of? Was he a good, You know? Well, you know, we get further away 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:47.417 from him. He doesn't look his right wing. Well, he'll be booted out of the 00:28:47.450 --> 00:28:52.746 party. Now, I know this crowd. You know, you know, he'd be drummed out of 00:28:52.779 --> 00:28:59.066 the core being john Rhodes. They wouldn't have a chance in both of, uh, 00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:03.006 but well, 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:09.566 you could not dislike barry was a very decent human being, I thought, and 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.506 the, 00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:17.226 you know, our politics were different and has a list of senators and you 00:29:17.259 --> 00:29:25.259 know, that. They were close friends and family and everything else, but i 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.907 it was 00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:35.667 running against him, of course, I made a speech about that for the family 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:38.437 , I 00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:43.516 think you've got a copy of that or something you should have. Uh it's like 00:29:43.549 --> 00:29:46.506 , 00:29:46.539 --> 00:29:49.857 well, you know, I tried to get him into debates or anything else, but it 00:29:49.890 --> 00:29:54.796 was like running a good running against the Marlboro Man and the Grand 00:29:54.829 --> 00:29:57.586 Canyon. 00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:05.207 And of course johnson was, you know, that photo you saw, uh 00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:09.707 he had me convinced because I went back with is gonna stop that war in 00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:17.316 Vietnam for the election, you know, and get the hell out of there and they 00:30:17.349 --> 00:30:24.786 had me convinced. But so when I decided a get talked into running the 00:30:24.819 --> 00:30:29.147 second time, because the senator wanted me to try it again and I knew it 00:30:29.180 --> 00:30:32.597 would be uphill against Barry, but we thought maybe if Lyndon was running 00:30:32.630 --> 00:30:37.707 again. Well, that was the original plan back in 64 was we didn't think 00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:41.137 Barry would get the nomination of the presidential nomination would to be 00:30:41.170 --> 00:30:44.506 running against him. We could do to bury what he had done to McFarland. 00:30:44.539 --> 00:30:49.197 Right. and so in 68 we was sort of some of the same theory was working, 00:30:49.230 --> 00:30:57.006 but of course it was a different situation. And um but I 00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:05.039 I was very fond of him, I can tell you a couple of things that 00:31:08.740 --> 00:31:12.137 I didn't think that much of him as a senator. He wasn't a hardworking 00:31:12.170 --> 00:31:18.357 senator, but he, uh, and I'll never have to give them for getting off the 00:31:18.390 --> 00:31:22.377 interior Committee to go on armed services. Just that when we're ready to 00:31:22.410 --> 00:31:27.117 go with C A P. And so the senator had to go on there as a junior member of 00:31:27.150 --> 00:31:33.107 the committee, right? And Fannin was also on there and he got on there. So 00:31:33.140 --> 00:31:35.476 , 00:31:35.509 --> 00:31:41.326 and I was sort of in an awkward position at that time because ID against 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.006 Fannin. And 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:49.617 so I was attending all the meetings with Bannon as a senator. Yeah, Bannon 00:31:49.650 --> 00:31:57.650 as a senator. And, and I didn't think paul was too swift and, but we, uh, 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:05.167 and you know, I was the chief negotiator for the old man. You know, he 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:10.617 gave had complete confidence in me and I, and I as you know from room, 00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:15.167 some of the stuff I raise some hell and some of those meetings and you'd 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.847 also still test to this day. Oh, I know and well he wrote that letter to 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:28.546 the senator, you know about me saying I was even a genius. And, but I can 00:32:28.579 --> 00:32:35.617 tell you this, those letters were all signed by car laden, not me. And you 00:32:35.650 --> 00:32:39.607 read every word of it, he knew what the hell he was doing. That's one 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:43.556 thing you could never, even in his old age, would never enter it yesterday 00:32:43.589 --> 00:32:47.306 , made it that man, he could look asleep and then come up with the most 00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:52.607 coaching questions and penetrating just really 00:32:52.640 --> 00:33:00.640 yeah, hey, I uh he after I lost to him, I thought, 00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:06.107 and you know, I didn't had, 00:33:06.140 --> 00:33:09.516 by the way, I did better than Macfarlane went down against him. Yeah, I 00:33:09.549 --> 00:33:14.407 don't say that, but 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:18.236 I got to say everything I ever wanted to say. I mean during the campaign, 00:33:18.269 --> 00:33:23.937 I just let it all hang out and just got to say everything I believed in. 00:33:23.970 --> 00:33:30.637 And so it was fun. I had a lot of fun campaigning, but of course, see ape 00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:34.306 was going on all that time and so I just get out here and start 00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:41.217 campaigning and in the senator called me back and uh Red Davis or someone 00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:45.236 and say you better get back here. And so I canceled and fly back to 00:33:45.269 --> 00:33:49.806 Washington and I don't know. So it was just 00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:55.296 mixed up campaign because I was always going back there, but after I lost 00:33:55.329 --> 00:33:57.707 a very 00:33:57.740 --> 00:33:59.996 uh 00:34:00.029 --> 00:34:03.947 I didn't have a job, didn't have anything, you know, this is the way in 00:34:03.980 --> 00:34:10.206 debt. And and I was trying to, some people with the hospital association, 00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:14.947 we're trying to we're interviewing me and I had a was their first choice 00:34:14.980 --> 00:34:22.980 and um anyhow, well they ran in accidentally to Darryl Coover remembered 00:34:23.449 --> 00:34:29.697 girl had worked for Barry. Anyhow who sexuality shouldn't consider him 00:34:29.730 --> 00:34:32.876 because he couldn't even get into Barry's office, you know, he wouldn't 00:34:32.909 --> 00:34:37.117 help, you couldn't help your goddamn bit. Well, when I learned about it 00:34:37.150 --> 00:34:42.387 and was told about it, I went to see Barry. I flew out from Washington. So 00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:47.997 I'm out of this house. Okay. And I sat down and I said, very, if this is 00:34:48.030 --> 00:34:52.106 the way you feel about me, I might as well have pulled up stakes and leave 00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:57.057 the country, you know, do something because I want to stay in Washington 00:34:57.090 --> 00:35:04.206 to can and you know, get out and start trying to make some money and stuff. 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.407 And I told him the storm, he said, well, he picked up the woman that 00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:14.816 happened to be the National Republican woman Chairman in texas and called 00:35:14.849 --> 00:35:22.407 her, uh, in my presence and said the most praiseworthy things about me. I 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:27.526 mean, it was just very nice. Oh yeah, it was a class act. And then he 00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:32.427 called someone else and he said, Roy you know, you have access to any time 00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:35.677 you would have seen me. He called me. And of course he has a big friend of 00:35:35.710 --> 00:35:40.186 my brother and they lived in the same Westchester, they had their faces 00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:44.477 out there and they parked next to each other in the garage out there. All 00:35:44.510 --> 00:35:48.006 right. So, yeah, so, 00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:52.836 but he and then when he was back there after that, any time I wanted to 00:35:52.869 --> 00:35:57.247 see him when I was with the broadcasters and all that. Never any problem. 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:01.706 Good. In fact, you don't come by often enough. It's really very nice. 00:36:01.739 --> 00:36:07.497 That isn't okay. Well, that's that's nice to hear about. Yeah, 00:36:07.530 --> 00:36:09.597 just 00:36:09.630 --> 00:36:16.037 I well, it was sort of a man's man and you kept him and he could drink a 00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:20.557 lot could old man. Yeah. I think he could really talk to Jack the store 00:36:20.590 --> 00:36:23.967 the other day and he says I went to see him and he had a mug of bourbon 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.506 during the hour. We were talking about srp stuff finished. He was like 00:36:28.539 --> 00:36:35.296 unaffected. Oh yeah. Well yeah he had no problems putting him down in the 00:36:35.329 --> 00:36:41.396 except like a lot of us he became invisible after a few you know 00:36:41.429 --> 00:36:47.387 and of course women loved him and you know I'm sure. Yeah and Peggy was a 00:36:47.420 --> 00:36:53.697 burden. Yeah. Just okay. Yeah. 00:36:53.730 --> 00:36:55.796 Yeah 00:36:55.829 --> 00:37:03.829 she was and she was a problem for him I think. Um interesting. Okay. I 00:37:04.130 --> 00:37:08.517 I knew the sun I lobbied the son when he was in the house. He's still in 00:37:08.550 --> 00:37:16.550 your goofy. Well he was on well you know coke and in his district there 00:37:16.769 --> 00:37:20.037 and you know I got this from all that. They kicked him out of the country 00:37:20.070 --> 00:37:26.427 club over there for always stuff out there in Woodland Hills and some of 00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:32.686 the country club. He and he and Glenn Campbell look at kicked out of the 00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:40.387 same place. Their party too much. Yeah. But he was barry Jr just wasn't 00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:45.367 very bright at all and or where he was awfully confused. Or maybe a coat 00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:49.086 got to him but there was no question. He was on you know you can see the 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:53.146 reptilian look, 00:37:53.179 --> 00:37:59.697 the eyes caged. You know, just uh, I think he's doing better now. That's 00:37:59.730 --> 00:38:02.756 what I understand. 00:38:02.789 --> 00:38:07.617 He's, I think he's dry. I mean he's, he's actually know what a very nice 00:38:07.650 --> 00:38:12.927 guy. He's a well meaning, he's a good soul. They've all been nice students. 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:19.816 I can't have no complaint. Is just that I finally assign someone else to 00:38:19.849 --> 00:38:24.387 do to work with him. Okay. 00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:30.586 As he was on our side anyhow, it was a waste of time. Um, 00:38:30.619 --> 00:38:33.586 Now to the Arizona versus California, you're back there in 56. And I 00:38:33.619 --> 00:38:37.166 talked with Curtis Jennings the other day about that. He told me what he 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:42.106 was doing that he's, it's funny now I testify as an expert witness before 00:38:42.139 --> 00:38:46.456 Curtis on a water issue that's not really relevant here. But we've become 00:38:46.489 --> 00:38:50.617 pretty good friends and he really appreciated the chance to work back 00:38:50.650 --> 00:38:55.006 there and he was good. Yeah. Smart guy. He went to law school back there. 00:38:55.039 --> 00:39:00.677 Yeah. Yeah. He said the senator. Yeah. Uh, and uh, there was uh, I don't 00:39:00.710 --> 00:39:05.816 think you need to talk about the internal office workings here. But were 00:39:05.849 --> 00:39:09.637 you aware of, did you ever meet Mark Wilbur and the Arizona group and all 00:39:09.670 --> 00:39:15.206 that and what was your role? Well, at that time? Well, let me tell you, 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:20.686 can we take a break? You know, let's talk to you left off. Thank you. We 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.947 left off with the full water women loved him and Peggy was a burden 00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:28.467 basically. Then we started on, you asked me about okay, okay good okay. 00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:32.736 Mark Webber and it's very interesting. I just completed a section of 00:39:32.769 --> 00:39:38.177 research. Haven't draft anything really on. They followed his governor and 00:39:38.210 --> 00:39:43.066 he argues the Supreme Court case. What do you remember about that? I just 00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:48.017 remember being back there and I don't know whether senator went over there 00:39:48.050 --> 00:39:53.736 but I see That would have been what about 1956 00:39:53.769 --> 00:40:01.769 56? Yeah, 50 55 56. 55. Yeah. See I came back with a senator in June of 55 00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:09.236 right then and I first got with him in the 52 and was with him to the 00:40:09.269 --> 00:40:14.867 middle of 53. Right? And 00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:21.006 and I fought the korean war very valiantly over in Germany and France 00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:26.526 about all the mo martin the left bank and the Riviera a 00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:34.559 it was a hell of a war. But all I remember about uh Man coming back 00:40:35.309 --> 00:40:38.347 because you got elected, you know, have to bury beat him in 52. He got 00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:45.287 elected. And I think it was 54, Yeah, because and then he came back and I 00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:52.267 remember being in the office. Okay. And you were there, you saw him? Oh 00:40:52.300 --> 00:40:55.217 yeah I saw him but I didn't go over to the Supreme Court was getting a 00:40:55.250 --> 00:40:59.236 seated, there was always a problem. Remember anything about that meeting 00:40:59.269 --> 00:41:06.907 all other than he was keyed up and Uh huh she's worried nervous and he 00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:10.296 stayed up. I found out he stayed up for the morning and memorized his 00:41:10.329 --> 00:41:16.427 presentation. He had it down pretty pat. And of course 00:41:16.460 --> 00:41:21.497 meg had sort of a funny way of talking. I mean it wasn't you know sort of 00:41:21.530 --> 00:41:28.477 Oklahoma draw. Yeah but yeah I remember being there and I don't know you 00:41:28.510 --> 00:41:32.467 know a bunch of them in from Arizona for that I think john p frank and 00:41:32.500 --> 00:41:35.077 right uhh 00:41:35.110 --> 00:41:41.057 and some wayne ache and people like that we're in for the the argument. I 00:41:41.090 --> 00:41:47.856 don't know who else was there but very well in the office and I don't know 00:41:47.889 --> 00:41:51.807 whether the senator went over that day or not. I don't think so because I 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:56.267 think someone was coming up in the floor. Uh huh But it was an important 00:41:56.300 --> 00:42:00.477 day. It was an important event and in fact the fact that the upper basin, 00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:03.816 what he was doing the argument to keep the upper basin out of case. Yeah I 00:42:03.849 --> 00:42:11.849 remember that. Yeah but of course I don't think Arizona changed its 00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:17.796 position yet. Not yet because the market was old jumpy frank. Yeah. Yeah I 00:42:17.829 --> 00:42:23.486 know the guy chain got the silver. No, neither one charlie charlie charlie 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.336 charlie reading from Coolidge. Yeah no question about that he was the 00:42:27.369 --> 00:42:32.206 brains behind it all and then okay tell me hey man charlie was you know 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:36.467 he's the one that choke together with me. Yeah so you got you formed a 00:42:36.500 --> 00:42:40.796 pretty good relationship with him and he was kind of oh yeah man and you 00:42:40.829 --> 00:42:44.816 know he was a wiry little cowboy with big thick glasses, you know they 00:42:44.849 --> 00:42:52.597 look like you're looking through coke bottles and but tough and and you 00:42:52.630 --> 00:42:57.006 know it was sort of a man of few words but when he started talking man you 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:02.316 could that mind was like a steel trap. Oh man he was, was he the litigator 00:43:02.349 --> 00:43:10.349 or I think Wilbur was the voice voice. Yeah and and so it was um john p 00:43:11.329 --> 00:43:15.626 did a lot of you know what the oil arguments of in san Francisco, they 00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:20.867 were all in the act joe mansfield from humor was one of the best. Okay. 00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:22.967 And 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:28.066 but charlie, I know when, yeah, 00:43:28.099 --> 00:43:31.967 when we were getting expecting 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.566 the Supreme Court decision, you know and I was out here with Bill Guqin 00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:40.876 and charlie Reid and we flew back to just before the trip that he choked 00:43:40.909 --> 00:43:47.336 to death uh Bill did all the water engineering. I did all the politics and 00:43:47.369 --> 00:43:54.986 the memorandum and charlie did you know the Lagos stop okay and I did the 00:43:55.019 --> 00:44:00.287 political stuff and and then we were out here, I know I was out here for a 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.146 week with them, we stand up all night getting ready and then we all flew 00:44:04.179 --> 00:44:08.657 back to Washington together and stayed there over to jefferson hotel, had 00:44:08.690 --> 00:44:13.856 a sweet over there and 00:44:13.889 --> 00:44:18.856 so when uh 00:44:18.889 --> 00:44:25.756 charlie, the senator had a great confidence in charlie handbill google. 00:44:25.789 --> 00:44:30.597 You know we sort of made them but we have problems with the Interstate 00:44:30.630 --> 00:44:34.157 stream commission. Of course we have problems with the power authority and 00:44:34.190 --> 00:44:38.416 you know we would seem like that's all we did was fight. There wasn't any 00:44:38.449 --> 00:44:45.057 unity harmony in this delegation. Then of course we had our quarrels with 00:44:45.090 --> 00:44:51.396 Stuart because senator felt he had I lied to him because he had promised 00:44:51.429 --> 00:44:56.467 to report on a simple C. A. P. You know big basin wide trade off deal. 00:44:56.500 --> 00:45:01.256 Yeah and in question, all they did was glue that together. You know if I 00:45:01.289 --> 00:45:08.506 had a make up most of it was stuff suede California. Well not only that 00:45:08.539 --> 00:45:15.646 but also. Well yeah I have my own suspicions that there were other reasons 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:20.086 involve telling these guys anybody. Yeah. You know political Kennedy's 00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:25.997 political sure ambitions but didn't want to alienate California and all 00:45:26.030 --> 00:45:32.727 that. But we talked about that before. Um But I 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:37.657 I was gonna tell you what when I 00:45:37.690 --> 00:45:42.046 became the senator's new allies 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:49.776 starting in about 58 I would say I started reading our files on the Cd LP 00:45:49.809 --> 00:45:54.057 and all that stuff and and 00:45:54.090 --> 00:46:02.090 and Then this 60's came along and I used to me regularly with by name. Uh 00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:10.559 huh. Good rich too much isblack