WEBVTT 00:00:03.339 --> 00:00:05.339 turned out to become kind of a floating panel is known around the festival. 00:00:10.369 --> 00:00:15.287 Is the jazz pants. Originally they were really true, but the one 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:22.427 yesterday afternoon uh, was kind of collapsed into this one. Neither of 00:00:22.460 --> 00:00:30.460 the panels have very specific topics. One was uh, trends in jazz today and 00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:37.126 the other was musicians lives. Uh, I thought perhaps that we could sort of 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:44.296 combine those two and maybe also address ourselves in. Yeah. To some of 00:00:44.329 --> 00:00:51.857 the very broad uhh general questions that have been raised at some of the 00:00:51.890 --> 00:00:57.567 very good and very interesting panel discussions here about art and the 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:02.497 environment, about aesthetics and theology and whether they can be 00:01:02.530 --> 00:01:10.147 reconciled. And also there was a topic yesterday Animal mostly consisting 00:01:10.180 --> 00:01:17.906 of architects discussed that one and that was excellence and commitment. 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:24.057 Now I think that in the music which for lack of a better term is known as 00:01:24.090 --> 00:01:28.107 jazz and somehow or other, that seems to be the words that we always come 00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:34.326 back to. Uh, over the years, many substitutes have been introduced, but 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.516 somehow that's a tenacious little four letter word. It may not be awarded 00:01:38.549 --> 00:01:45.816 with the world's most distinguished pedigree in the sense of it's suppose 00:01:45.849 --> 00:01:49.947 that original meanings, but it has gathered enough glory to itself. I 00:01:49.980 --> 00:01:56.706 think in the last 100 years or so for us to wear it proudly in any case 00:01:56.739 --> 00:02:02.777 that music, in that music, excellence and commitment, I think have always 00:02:02.810 --> 00:02:09.397 been taken for granted and perhaps too much so because and no other music 00:02:09.430 --> 00:02:13.307 did I know is the musician 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:19.207 so clearly making a commitment every time he plays because when he plays 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:25.707 foreign audience or for himself, that's him or her out there, it's laying 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:31.036 it on the line. It's in that sense, a very naked music and therefore also 00:02:31.069 --> 00:02:35.797 very vulnerable. And as somebody said yesterday, I think Richie Bayrak 00:02:35.830 --> 00:02:41.177 ephemeral in nature and yet despite of that it has achieved in a 00:02:41.210 --> 00:02:47.897 relatively short time. Uhh some of the greatest artistic creations of our 00:02:47.930 --> 00:02:54.047 time. Indisputably, I think. Anyway, we have a distinguished panel here 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:59.166 and uh, we may be joined by one or two others as we go along. The time for 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.147 this has been floating. I guess they figured it was a jazz panel. So we 00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:09.386 should keep it loose and get an improvisatory quality into it. You can 00:03:09.419 --> 00:03:15.867 read biographies of most of the distinguished people at this table uh, in 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:19.856 your program and because we only have an hour, I don't think I want to go 00:03:19.889 --> 00:03:25.006 into lengthy biographical sketches that would keep us here for a long time. 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:30.967 But uh, Dave Liebman and Richie Barreca here at Arcosanti for the third 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:35.747 time, which speaks for itself. And those of you who were lucky enough to 00:03:35.780 --> 00:03:40.936 hear them play together last night, I don't know why they're here. Uh, 00:03:40.969 --> 00:03:45.747 they have both. Uh, they've been friends for a very long time and have 00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:51.006 played together for a long time and you can tell and individually they 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:55.506 played work together a lot individually. David has worked with Miles, 00:03:55.539 --> 00:04:01.346 which has been with stan Getz among others. But again, if I were to go 00:04:01.379 --> 00:04:09.379 down the whole trip. Ah Their credentials are impeccable. Um, Professor 00:04:09.590 --> 00:04:15.307 thomas Ferguson is director of Jazz studies at Arizona State University. 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:21.217 He is a recent transplant to this state when I first met him, was at Notre 00:04:21.250 --> 00:04:25.947 dame Intercollegiate Jazz Festival many years ago and he was leading a 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:30.306 band from Memphis, which is forever embedded in my memory because of the 00:04:30.339 --> 00:04:33.437 festival that had some very good bands. That was the only man that was 00:04:33.470 --> 00:04:40.366 really swinging. And since then, uh Tom and I have crossed paths a number 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:46.027 of times. He is a member of the National Endowment for the Arts Jazz 00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:53.707 Advisory panel and he's also a hell of a piano player. Uhh are not party. 00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:59.577 I hope you heard yesterday at the, the presentation we did with Freddie 00:04:59.610 --> 00:05:07.226 waits of Bernard Party to make a a long story short is the king of soulful 00:05:07.259 --> 00:05:15.259 drummers and an extraordinary gentleman. Uh I think maybe what we, I want 00:05:16.209 --> 00:05:20.717 to start out with us, maybe to talk a little bit about this situation of 00:05:20.750 --> 00:05:28.007 jazz today and Well, Richie, why don't you start you? But 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.806 well, I was saying yesterday, 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:36.887 I think that talk about the seventies, which are at the end of it has been 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:43.257 a, a synthesis period of synthesis where a lot of the influences of world 00:05:43.290 --> 00:05:48.996 music, indian music african music, classical music, rock and roll, 00:05:49.029 --> 00:05:52.837 everything has been kind of synthesized into different combinations. When 00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:59.616 we call this fusion some people call it confusion. Yeah. Uh It's produced 00:05:59.649 --> 00:06:03.507 some very good music 00:06:03.540 --> 00:06:11.366 and it really has strong roots in the past. If you think about latin jazz 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:15.226 fusion in the forties and fifties with dizzy Gillespie and chano pozo 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:19.656 Machito Tito puente. That has very strong roots and that's a very strong 00:06:19.689 --> 00:06:24.306 case to make for 00:06:24.339 --> 00:06:31.707 thinking about fusion in terms of a progress situation rather than return 00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:37.656 also ah fusion of classical music and jazz which never really might bring 00:06:37.689 --> 00:06:42.106 and can go off so called third stream 00:06:42.139 --> 00:06:47.217 attempt is happening more now what's kind of happening in a much more 00:06:47.250 --> 00:06:51.757 natural way where there's a give and take between classical and classical 00:06:51.790 --> 00:06:56.377 musicians and jazz musicians where sometimes you can't tell who's who you 00:06:56.410 --> 00:07:00.406 know and I think that's a good thing 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.866 you have a lot of people approaching like from the institutions and 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:07.707 academies approaches and taylor and they asked him for a score and he says 00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:11.806 there's no score. I just played it you know 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:18.897 I think that what's happening now is is really coming to an end. I think 00:07:18.930 --> 00:07:23.337 most of the great fusion bands of the seventies are split up and over 00:07:23.370 --> 00:07:28.106 there's been a return to acoustic music. People like john Mclaughlin and 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:34.767 Henry Hancock V. S. O. P. A lot of standout electric bands are coming back 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.837 to playing acoustic music again I think it's a really good sign it's 00:07:38.870 --> 00:07:43.796 healthy there will always be fusion music, They always be jazz. It's a 00:07:43.829 --> 00:07:46.786 question of when they come together. I particularly think that the 00:07:46.819 --> 00:07:50.637 eighties and nineties, not just in music but in the general feeling in the 00:07:50.670 --> 00:07:55.846 world will be a time for more innovation in the seventies. I haven't seen 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:01.406 any real innovations in the sense of charlie parker and john Coltrane and 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:06.046 great conceptual genius is appearing on the scene. They might be around, 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:10.306 but I haven't I haven't seen them, you know. 00:08:10.339 --> 00:08:16.207 Thank you. Rich. Uh huh. Tom you have 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:22.077 of course, as in terms of James, education quote unquote. Mm most of our 00:08:22.110 --> 00:08:29.406 students are in the imitative processes. We're very much interested in 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:33.886 what the great players are doing and recording with that. We're at the 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:38.006 mercy, so to speak. Um 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:42.856 I'd be curious because I do not live in new york, I'd be curious and their 00:08:42.889 --> 00:08:45.807 feeling of the 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:51.917 has the rise of the commercial fusion thing hurt your cause so to speak in 00:08:51.950 --> 00:08:56.207 the new york areas, 00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:04.240 I think in new york. No. Mhm. Yeah. Hello, 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:12.217 mm hmm. Okay, I know this is a and the question is whether from town and a 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:17.646 commercial fusion thing has hurt our cause. I'm assuming you mean a 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:23.087 because of pure jazz. Yeah, new york happens to be rid of a few places. It 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:28.947 seems to me that can hold all types of music and still keep a very active 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:34.447 audience and an active population of musicians involved in that music. So 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:39.457 in a sense that fusion music has been a very popular media event and has 00:09:39.490 --> 00:09:44.766 created a lot of sand as an interest in jazz. Um, I don't think that that 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:47.547 result because in new york because actually what's occurring in new york 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:50.346 and if you've been there lately and are interested in jazz, I think you 00:09:50.379 --> 00:09:55.146 would notice obviously if you look at people like the village voice any 00:09:55.179 --> 00:10:01.657 given week and you have 234 pages of clubs besides separate promotional 00:10:01.690 --> 00:10:06.667 concerts, at least 3 to 5 concerts per weekend, large concerts and large 00:10:06.700 --> 00:10:11.236 holes and you have these two or three pages when really, uh, number five 00:10:11.269 --> 00:10:14.636 or six years ago, it was a half a page if I recall and that shows 00:10:14.669 --> 00:10:17.417 something right away. And then all of these places for the most part, 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:22.726 about 85% of everyone symptoms large percentage are acoustic jazz and not 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.417 just acoustic jazz but be bob, I mean, guys playing tunes, you know, old 00:10:28.450 --> 00:10:32.886 tunes, new tunes, all kinds of stuff, but uh, an amazing amount of 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.427 interest in that. And I think it's basically when the music for that is 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:40.587 because that music has settled into becoming something that you kind of go 00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:44.917 and live with, You don't necessarily go this special concert out of it so 00:10:44.950 --> 00:10:48.996 much as you might have 10, 15, 20 years ago when it was the million music. 00:10:49.029 --> 00:10:51.807 Now you're going to declare that you might have dinner and art farmer 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:55.506 could be playing. And that's not a reflection on our farm to on that music. 00:10:55.539 --> 00:10:58.917 It just means it's kind of seeped into a place in our lives where it's at 00:10:58.950 --> 00:11:03.126 least in a place like new york where it's really part of what goes on and 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.667 I don't think it will ever be endangered by any trend or lack of trends. 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:11.657 Uh It's something, especially in new york from living on the west coast. I 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:15.346 will say that it's quite different on the west coast, especially in Los 00:11:15.379 --> 00:11:23.379 Angeles of places, but we didn't get into that. Mhm. Ever? Well I would 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:28.986 say hello, hello, hello. Hi. I would like to elaborate on what he just 00:11:29.019 --> 00:11:35.146 said about new york because I am in new york and I live in new york. And 00:11:35.179 --> 00:11:43.179 in the last two years the music scene has changed drastically. Whereas we 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:48.907 now have live music in almost 60% 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:56.940 of the clubs in new york city, basically we have roughly 3000 clubs in new 00:11:57.470 --> 00:12:05.470 york city. I happen to know because I work with look later too almost. 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:12.606 But uh we basically have about 3000 clubs that could hold live 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:20.639 entertainment now two years ago, it was mostly records because it was 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:28.736 cheaper. People didn't get out and they spend most of their money within 00:12:28.769 --> 00:12:35.917 their homes, bind markets. Then today we have more and more people going 00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:41.207 back out again to listen to live entertainment. 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:44.476 Not only are they listening to live entertainment, but they're buying 00:12:44.509 --> 00:12:52.509 records, but buying media for record buying has men from the age of 15 00:12:54.539 --> 00:13:00.287 through 21 for as they call the rock and roll air. But it has stretched 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:08.006 out to where it's called Good Music from the ages of 15 to 35. 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:14.827 And then you have between the ages of 25 45 they're going back to buying 00:13:14.860 --> 00:13:22.106 as we call it that will always be here jazz but it is commercialized. That 00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:27.317 is commercialized to one degree that everybody is getting a chance to 00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:35.096 understand feel what the artist is trying to feel and yet getting it to a 00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:38.567 point where they can understand it and that was the hardest problem that 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:46.207 we had 20 years ago. Everybody just didn't understand jazz. But now today 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:52.636 it's being, it has been put together to where the commercialism can work 00:13:52.669 --> 00:13:58.687 on both parts, where can help the artists and the artists not have to 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:04.506 starve to death and also get across to the people what they want to say 00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:11.807 without being hurt and what I've done so far back as to say, hey man, 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.787 doing nothing but a lot of notes. But basically now he's doing good music 00:14:16.820 --> 00:14:23.467 which has always been and if we would use those titles as good music, we 00:14:23.500 --> 00:14:26.746 never have to worry about anything. Jazz will be here for the rest of our 00:14:26.779 --> 00:14:32.427 lives and it will be anyhow. But I really like to say that new york is 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:34.606 jumping. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:39.606 I'm so glad, I'm so glad 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:44.407 I protest against that last remark. 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:50.846 Sure, uh, I'd like to introduce Freddie waits whom I hope uh, number of 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:56.846 you met yesterday at the percussion demonstration. Uh, again, I don't want 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.067 to give a long biography, but Mr weights is a phenomenal multi 00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.106 percussionist 00:15:03.139 --> 00:15:08.337 and a faculty member at Livingston College at Rutgers University. Get rid 00:15:08.370 --> 00:15:16.307 of what we're talking about the situation of the music today in general. 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:18.407 Mhm, 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:23.817 Okay, I don't know what's being said, but the situation in new york city, 00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:29.126 I think, well, I was speaking on, uh, I think there are some very good 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:32.587 things happening now. I think that's the end of this conversation. He did 00:15:32.620 --> 00:15:35.126 say a couple of things that I definitely agree with was the fact that 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.386 music is definitely coming back into new york. And to really follow that 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:42.626 statement. I don't think it really have a lot of new york city, it was 00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:45.797 always happening in new york, it was just the other part of the world. We 00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:50.476 see people in the rap for that, that's new rack. And then after new york 00:15:50.509 --> 00:15:57.266 you in California all this time, who doesn't exist, You know? So I think 00:15:57.299 --> 00:16:01.337 uh, move fast, we're doing a lot of traveling across the country. I found 00:16:01.370 --> 00:16:05.226 that black people in every part of this country that has always been very 00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:09.746 interested in jazz, quote unquote, uh calling me real jazz again, We had a 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:13.486 confidence about two summers ago in Bennington College in Vermont, I was a 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:18.537 part of where it was a total scheduled, in fact, should the name be 00:16:18.570 --> 00:16:23.976 changed from jazz to what I don't know, it was several different names 00:16:24.009 --> 00:16:28.616 mentioned why, but the fact is that the whole meeting resolved to the fact 00:16:28.649 --> 00:16:32.957 that if you did that we suffered the consequences of possibly losing 00:16:32.990 --> 00:16:37.307 people who have really grabbed ahold of eternal jazz as their whole thing 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:41.256 and philosophy about the music. So I think it was done resolving to each 00:16:41.289 --> 00:16:44.447 individual within himself, would have to deal with it on his own personal 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.476 level as to how he felt the music was to him, if it was jazz, it was 00:16:48.509 --> 00:16:52.516 created for whatever or whatever they want to call it. But yet in terms of 00:16:52.549 --> 00:16:55.876 media, the world, jazz would still stay out. I mean there are various 00:16:55.909 --> 00:17:01.346 reasons of course, given why he did not want to use the word jazz and not 00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:04.796 have it made sense. A lot of them didn't, but in the, in the case we 00:17:04.829 --> 00:17:10.387 really believe that if we change that name, which could be done, it took a 00:17:10.420 --> 00:17:13.776 lot of work, but the people done, we could actually real ourselves because 00:17:13.809 --> 00:17:17.707 of the fact that people have really grown so attached to the word itself 00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:21.657 and we're leading it to certain people and to the whole idea of the music 00:17:21.690 --> 00:17:27.806 situation, I think that one thing that has helped jazz music today is the 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:34.127 fact that people are gonna uh tom Ferguson Martinson Liebman and via Iraq 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.907 are now coming out speaking to people as yourselves and telling them the 00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:41.566 problems and the things that we're actually dealing with on a business 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:46.726 level or social level and a musical level in our musical careers, we found 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:49.246 that people are actually sympathetic to those things and they want to 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:53.306 respond to them is the fact that they are not aware of the certain things 00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:56.826 that are happening and why certain things are happening. Uh once people 00:17:56.859 --> 00:18:00.786 informed the react, a lot of those reactions have been very positive. I'm 00:18:00.819 --> 00:18:05.127 happy to say. And myself, young people in the universities and colleges 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.407 across the country are very responsive to these things. It's just that 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.457 they are not informed. A lot of information given to them is false 00:18:11.490 --> 00:18:16.447 information. People like ourselves have been giving them the route to 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.917 correct information. Where can you find the right thing, what is actually 00:18:19.950 --> 00:18:24.046 happening? We are writing the right reviews who are reviewing things as 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:28.286 they should be. And uh I think if you begin to listen to these people, 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.457 especially the people that I know this panel really covered up with 00:18:31.490 --> 00:18:35.217 wonderful ideas and ways to help you get to the services of what's 00:18:35.250 --> 00:18:38.556 happening with the music. I think of the continue to grow, not only in new 00:18:38.589 --> 00:18:46.589 york but the rest of the world and the rest of the country as well. 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:55.440 Um, mm hmm, One of the, oh, obvious things to 0.2 about this place here, 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:06.197 Arcosanti is that it is the city of the future, so to speak. Uh, I think 00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:11.367 for that reason it's very good and very heartening that jazz has been part 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:16.417 of the programming here from the start because it's jazz in a sense is the 00:19:16.450 --> 00:19:24.450 urban music incarnate. And of course, uh, the question of the environment 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:35.496 in which the music we often had to grow up and which in some part is a 00:19:35.529 --> 00:19:38.976 reason for some of those misconceptions that people have about the word 00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:45.036 jazz for instance, about it. It's supposed origins uh, in New Orleans, uh 00:19:45.069 --> 00:19:49.637 , in the red light district, which is nonsense because it was played all 00:19:49.670 --> 00:19:54.647 over the city and by no means even played mostly in that particular 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:58.736 environment. But it's, you know, last night I was thinking how marvelous 00:19:58.769 --> 00:20:04.516 it is to be able to hear, to find jazz artists perform in a setting like 00:20:04.549 --> 00:20:10.397 this, you know, under the sky and then a beautiful place like this. Uh, 00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:16.006 whereas for so many, many years the music was very often confined too 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:22.026 smoky nightclubs and to uh, other kinds of environments which were not 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:25.947 conducive, it's the amazing thing about this music is that in spite of 00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:30.836 this and other people who created it had the tremendous, uh, you know, 00:20:30.869 --> 00:20:36.467 strength and any resources to, you know, to do it in spite of my life, of 00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:39.006 course it was also played in ballrooms, there's nothing wrong with 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:43.566 ballrooms that can be a very nice environment, but it's, you know, it's 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:48.726 about time that the music was brought out and is being brought out uh into 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:54.246 the open, so to speak, into clear air and uh I think maybe some of the 00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:57.937 analysts might have some ideas about that. Today, can you do, can you 00:20:57.970 --> 00:21:03.897 support yourselves essentially by doing concert work and clinics and so on 00:21:03.930 --> 00:21:07.467 ? But do you still have to work in clubs? And do you want to keep on 00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:10.506 working in clubs? 00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:17.076 That is David? Mhm. Well, I think especially on this panel is that we are 00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:22.556 an assortment of the real musicians about the living. Um I would venture 00:21:22.589 --> 00:21:26.097 to say that I don't know anybody sitting here make their living sorry from 00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:31.076 one activity and music would seem to me, so uh after that, as a matter of 00:21:31.109 --> 00:21:35.367 how many we have to keep together, how much money we want to make and how 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:41.246 much you need. But the thing about clubs is that to me, the ideal 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.907 situation isn't playing in all kinds of situations, environments when it 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:48.986 is the festival environment, which is what this is out there, especially 00:21:49.019 --> 00:21:53.597 when we played downstairs, which is uh at the scene, that's one particular 00:21:53.630 --> 00:21:59.177 way and one effect on the music um playing with a concert here like an 00:21:59.210 --> 00:22:04.016 avery fisher and a some kind of fun of setting is another kind and then 00:22:04.049 --> 00:22:08.117 the club is another kind and then the creator was yet another. So 00:22:08.150 --> 00:22:12.086 everyone's different situations and a couple of mothers clinics, even 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.556 another situation because you're playing for students. So it's different 00:22:15.589 --> 00:22:20.717 than playing for a regular audience, entertaining. So any situations are 00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:24.796 really good and I hate to give up the clothes because think about the 00:22:24.829 --> 00:22:28.736 clubs is that's where the musicians really stretch out. It seems bad and 00:22:28.769 --> 00:22:33.707 large. Um, this from my experience and listening that I was learning the 00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:35.986 music, 00:22:36.019 --> 00:22:40.796 an artist like john Coltrane. Um well Miles Davis and I think it can be 00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:44.677 attested to now by the number of releases from live situations which were 00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:48.907 not released released and trans case when he was alive, the kind of 00:22:48.940 --> 00:22:53.236 intensity and experimentation or whatever you wanna call it, that's going 00:22:53.269 --> 00:22:56.836 on only seems to really happen in a consistent level in the club because 00:22:56.869 --> 00:23:00.986 of the atmosphere, the ambiance, the fact that it is loose and the fact 00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:04.476 that you really have usually three sets that makes quite a thing because 00:23:04.509 --> 00:23:08.407 playing jazz is uh 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:13.437 may be different too the man musician, but for a musician it seems to me 00:23:13.470 --> 00:23:17.756 it's, and that's a very kind of physical act. Uh it's not getting up in 00:23:17.789 --> 00:23:21.016 the morning, you go through your day, you know, playing is getting on a 00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:25.526 stage, getting into into your instrument for that day, how much you 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:30.026 practice. They didn't practice getting a feel for the real and the sand 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:33.826 the other musicians to particular music of the night of course that it 00:23:33.859 --> 00:23:38.336 takes a certain amount of time every minutes, maybe hours maybe live. Uh 00:23:38.369 --> 00:23:42.377 huh It goes on and on and usually died at the 2nd and 3rd set of man is 00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:46.707 starting to feel a moose on a night to night basis. Found in the bands 00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:50.157 that I've worked with when they break night tonight, their neighbor most 00:23:50.190 --> 00:23:54.937 advances in the animation of that band's music by the end of a few weeks 00:23:54.970 --> 00:23:58.576 of ranking. So situation that's idea if you're a musician to control the 00:23:58.609 --> 00:24:02.576 shots fast record situation is to have some big concerts will make the 00:24:02.609 --> 00:24:06.207 brand you play for a lot of people, but some small clubs where it's a good 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.347 club, good sound, good equipment and they can really get close to the 00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:16.006 other positions into the people. 00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:24.039 Well, as far as, as far as living in new york and that that's right. 00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.407 Living living in new york and trying to earn a decent living without 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:33.026 really doing too much that you don't want to do when I started playing bar 00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:36.367 mitzvahs and weddings when I was 14, 15, the Catskill mountains in new 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:40.826 york playing for strippers and seeing us in higher stories and old male 00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:47.187 bars, that kind of stuff. I think I think that uh even though I hated what 00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:51.236 I did it. I think it was very important. It's kind of like a trial by fire 00:24:51.269 --> 00:24:55.796 , you know, it's very important to have as much varied experience in music 00:24:55.829 --> 00:24:59.907 and, you know, some really basic things about projecting, it doesn't 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.847 matter what you're playing to a hostile audience, to a an audience that 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.107 wants to see the stripper rather than he play competing with people 00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:12.657 drinking and eating. It's it's an ordeal, but it makes you strong in a 00:25:12.690 --> 00:25:16.006 certain way. So that when you do have the opportunity to have a quiet 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:21.417 audience in a magnificent setting like this, it's really uh because of 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:24.597 what you deserve it, you feel right about it and you make the most of it 00:25:24.630 --> 00:25:30.806 because you don't have to uh put yourself in a pressure situation. Ah Mhm. 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:38.137 For me, it's I was very lucky uh in getting a very good break, early 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:42.397 playing with stan Getz and I would like to make this point, even though 00:25:42.430 --> 00:25:48.367 it's it's kind of a dismal one tom you might, you might not want me to say 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.836 this, but I'm gonna say it as far as judging education goes. There's 00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:56.526 tremendous advances happening now in the schools and it's an enormous 00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.627 interest and enthusiasm when a lot of young people who are discovering 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:05.137 jazz and improv prov ization music and they love it and they want to have 00:26:05.170 --> 00:26:09.026 it as a career and by the hundreds and thousands they're buying 00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:12.476 instruments and and books and literature and enrolling in schools, which 00:26:12.509 --> 00:26:16.026 now give degrees and jazz, which is amazing, which has happened in the 00:26:16.059 --> 00:26:20.536 last five or 10 years, as far as I know and um, I don't know what these 00:26:20.569 --> 00:26:24.157 kids are gonna want to get out of school because they're about, as far as 00:26:24.190 --> 00:26:28.887 I know, about 20 jazz gigs now. Jazz gigs for heavy leaders, art, Blakey 00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:34.887 stan getz uh, Miles going to play something rounds. I mean Horace silver 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:38.086 and not from any more of what I just mentioned, there are a lot of other 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:43.016 gigs that are related to that. Uh, not, not even one of the girls to a 00:26:43.049 --> 00:26:47.407 school wants to be a jail solos of, in a virtuoso virtuoso setting. 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.786 There's been a big dance, but how many big bands are there out there 00:26:50.819 --> 00:26:55.576 making a movie? It's very similar, very similar to what's going on in the 00:26:55.609 --> 00:26:59.566 classical world. It has gone on for years. There are millions of students 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.857 enrolled in academic institutions like Julia at the Manhattan School of 00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:08.586 Music and they all have hopes of having concert careers and we know that, 00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:13.597 uh, there's only room for three or four. It, it's much harder, much matter. 00:27:13.630 --> 00:27:16.427 And the orchestra is trying to get into a major orchestra, the United 00:27:16.460 --> 00:27:21.036 States, it's easy to become president. You know what I'm saying? So it's, 00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:25.437 it's very clean. What happens is there's a lot of teaching happening, but 00:27:25.470 --> 00:27:32.887 on, on the, on the brightest side of it, excuse me, I know on the bright 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:39.207 side of it, I feel that even if even if these kids that come out of school 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:43.217 and they want to, they want to have a career as a jazz musician. And if 00:27:43.250 --> 00:27:48.076 they can't, I still think it's it's incredible because if nothing other 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:52.647 than that, be a more sophisticated and educated record buying public who 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.647 can turn on thousands of people in an educated listener. You know that to 00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:00.357 be, you know, that we're building a giant audience. That's really the to 00:28:00.390 --> 00:28:03.736 me, the rational way of looking at jay's education now, which in the end 00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:07.586 will help the musicians 00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:12.667 as far as survival goes. I'm also lucky to have gotten in on ECM records 00:28:12.700 --> 00:28:18.726 when they first started, I did a trio record called E. N. In 1974. I did 00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:23.996 some recording the day if we're looking out for him. Even before that, a 00:28:24.029 --> 00:28:30.607 solo piano record released last year, uh, the animals had an amazing, 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:37.957 amazing rise and it's really a very hopeful uh, signal to me because he is 00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:42.786 an example of a total quality, no compromise. Record company producing 00:28:42.819 --> 00:28:49.036 records without the thought of cost, uh, doing whatever the artist wants 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:54.056 presented uh, in such a way as as good as a major record company. And 00:28:54.089 --> 00:28:58.217 sometimes better quality pressings, amazing covers like real, real 00:28:58.250 --> 00:29:01.066 laminated carbon in the congress. You know, you take the record out and it 00:29:01.099 --> 00:29:06.836 doesn't fall apart and uh paying very good money, suddenly she became 00:29:06.869 --> 00:29:12.097 amazingly popular. I mean the head of the company Manfred I hurt. I had no 00:29:12.130 --> 00:29:16.506 idea. I didn't expect that. Probably didn't even want it to be so big. Now 00:29:16.539 --> 00:29:19.726 recently there have distribution by one place in the United States which 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:23.546 has a multimillion dollar machine for advertising and promotion. So it's 00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:28.447 kind of like a dream where you have quality music presented with rock and 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:34.546 roll bed. It's amazing. And the truth is that because the company line 00:29:34.579 --> 00:29:41.286 sells well I'm lucky enough to be included in that. And mm I get a check 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:45.667 in the mail every five or six months for for royalties. Now that's really 00:29:45.700 --> 00:29:50.877 one of the only ways that I that I own money you got on the road. You 00:29:50.910 --> 00:29:55.546 don't make that much money with this idea because most of it is eaten up 00:29:55.579 --> 00:29:59.907 with expenses and and such like that. 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:03.076 The way I make money is I get a check in the mail that way from royalties 00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:06.667 and publishing and stuff like that. That allows me a certain freedom in 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.086 new york where I don't have to do certain jobs unless I want to. But this 00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:14.647 is only in the last three years up until three years ago I was still 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:18.437 having to do things you know. So I think that is a really good sign. And 00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:22.566 also E. C. M. Being the biggest of the small companies there are a lot of 00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:27.657 other companies now that are enjoying popular like inner city in Black 00:30:27.690 --> 00:30:31.437 Lion and a whole bunch of small companies that are selling records. You 00:30:31.470 --> 00:30:35.107 know it seems to be an interest in the underground. Now sometimes you have 00:30:35.140 --> 00:30:39.627 records that I reviewed and uh brought in preference to the bigger 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:41.976 companies just because they're under that it's kind of a reverse 00:30:42.009 --> 00:30:46.157 snobbishness that sometimes the pain in the gas. But look you have small 00:30:46.190 --> 00:30:49.806 artists that are able to work you know? 00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:56.286 So I think that uh again is a cross section of kind of work that you have 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.877 to do in new york. As far as education goes, I taught privately for about 00:31:00.910 --> 00:31:05.177 five or six years, I derived a lot of income from that rather than working 00:31:05.210 --> 00:31:10.046 some kind of bars, you know? And I found that was very rewarding but also 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:15.026 amazingly draining because at the level that I taught at which was pretty 00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.907 advanced level, 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:21.857 someone comes to a young guy and it's his whole life. He wants to be a 00:31:21.890 --> 00:31:25.627 jazz musician, basically wants to be new and it gets very personal really 00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:28.927 quick and he starts telling about his own lady and he wants to move out 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.516 and doesn't have the money and next thing you know he's lying down on the 00:31:31.549 --> 00:31:34.107 couch and your shrink. 00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:37.657 And I was always wondering after one lesson we start tired the kid would 00:31:37.690 --> 00:31:41.157 look out what I'm saying, the kid would walk out and you would be in the 00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.607 clouds and I go points out. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:52.640 Mhm. 15. Yeah. Right. 1000%. Right. So I gave up private teaching and I I 00:31:56.730 --> 00:31:59.377 said I got to put that information Subway because then I start against 00:31:59.410 --> 00:32:02.847 amazing gate like I have this information, I'm not giving it out, you know 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:06.637 my holding it or what. So we're going to writing books and then we're 00:32:06.670 --> 00:32:10.756 going to do in clinics so you could like reach 3, 400 people that weren't 00:32:10.789 --> 00:32:14.717 shot. You know, we're going as a matter of fact, we're gonna be doing two 00:32:14.750 --> 00:32:19.506 clinics on monday. Uh wanted tom school LLC and what it makes a college, 00:32:19.539 --> 00:32:24.607 you know, that's why I enjoy teaching them in large situations. You know, 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:31.437 some of you right have private, you also teach in the university. Do you 00:32:31.470 --> 00:32:37.627 have any reaction? I agree with which it I 00:32:37.660 --> 00:32:43.056 have to say that now. Honestly it's really draining. I'm pretty sure that 00:32:43.089 --> 00:32:48.657 my private teaching is going to really get very limited very shortly. Uh 00:32:48.690 --> 00:32:53.637 every extended myself about two years ago when I accepted uh situation 00:32:53.670 --> 00:32:58.076 that workers, I thought I could do it and continue my plane and continue 00:32:58.109 --> 00:33:02.377 with everything that I was doing. Uh if I had everything worked out, like 00:33:02.410 --> 00:33:05.877 I thought I could do it. I found I couldn't do that. It just doesn't work. 00:33:05.910 --> 00:33:09.046 Uh students need attention that they do. They really needed something 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.736 that the people are coming to you for something that they don't know 00:33:11.769 --> 00:33:15.717 anything about, that you're supposed to be a professional and and they 00:33:15.750 --> 00:33:19.187 were telling you, I mean just like he said, the guys talk about moving on 00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:22.937 from his own later and his melodies treatment wrong. It's like he says, 00:33:22.970 --> 00:33:25.967 man started to go out truth, you find himself standing by listening to the 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:29.907 guys lifestyle and then he leaves, he's hopping, we're about dead, you 00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:36.006 know. So I have to admit to also I do enjoy Richard, I enjoy dealing with 00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:39.467 young people and teaching situations. These are what I said lim but I'm 00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:44.957 gonna just probably teach a few people that I think I probably will be 00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:49.726 doing some teaching and sometimes capacity in terms of the club situation 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:55.687 myself personal. I don't like clothes, I love to play with me, but I hate 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:02.806 the club. I love playing with that. God, I like trying to buy very much, 00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:07.847 you know, the bands out and I found the metaphors and Shakespeare 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:12.137 Shakespeare public theater, that's the only two places in the yet. But I 00:34:12.170 --> 00:34:17.017 found myself but I really comfortable and you know, I haven't been to that 00:34:17.050 --> 00:34:21.367 place. 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.706 Yeah. 00:34:23.739 --> 00:34:31.307 Uh huh I really Jeremiah Kells, I love Mckellen's Mckellen's gives me a 00:34:31.340 --> 00:34:37.637 chance to really stretch out because all walks of people come in the cals 00:34:37.670 --> 00:34:44.606 , you have musicians, non musicians, you have record levels, you have 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:52.639 musician levels, you have every kind a person to come into Mchale's that 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:57.977 come in here strictly for the music no matter how much drinking, how much 00:34:58.010 --> 00:35:02.736 talking did they do when you really got something to say they are actually 00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:08.796 listening. They love what you're doing and council common investment we're 00:35:08.829 --> 00:35:14.486 all about because without that we are nothing. We are really nothing that 00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:20.086 aren't you coming out to enjoy us to listen to what we have to say. And 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:27.967 with those applause, we can move mountains, we can move anything, anybody 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:34.407 anyplace anywhere in the world, but just play No applause 00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:40.856 Thank you. Yeah, I 00:35:40.889 --> 00:35:47.977 hope it will be very, very fortunate that for me, clubs is a very, very 00:35:48.010 --> 00:35:54.217 big and vital thing for me now. I don't make any money in clubs, but I've 00:35:54.250 --> 00:36:02.250 been fortunate enough to make a few dollars on the other end. Make I 00:36:07.449 --> 00:36:12.776 happen to be lucky enough to, to make some records carried 00:36:12.809 --> 00:36:19.206 on a few records. And I'm fortunate enough now to be able to produce a few. 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:24.456 And it's worked out fine for me now. And the concerts basically, it's 00:36:24.489 --> 00:36:30.316 where musicians make money. That's about the only place that you really 00:36:30.349 --> 00:36:35.546 can make money unless you become the artist. Uh, with Andrew realities, if 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:39.947 you get a hit market, otherwise you've got to go in the studio and play in 00:36:39.980 --> 00:36:47.126 the studio in order to survive and out of it's almost, I think it's about 00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:55.159 60 million, 60,000 musicians in the, in the local radio too. There's 00:36:55.389 --> 00:37:01.717 roughly about 1000 who actually make records and there's about 300 who 00:37:01.750 --> 00:37:05.197 make records every week. 00:37:05.230 --> 00:37:12.796 Well, it's not too high. So we are fortunate enough to say that for the 00:37:12.829 --> 00:37:16.197 guys that are up here 00:37:16.230 --> 00:37:21.847 help make us what we are today. You gave us that chance and opportunity 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:26.956 revenue. But the records, whether you came to the concerts where we are 00:37:26.989 --> 00:37:32.896 that you gave us the room to move around and we are only trying to repay 00:37:32.929 --> 00:37:40.407 you. For instance, just coming here to Arcosanti is a treat for us to give 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.896 to you something that you have given to us. 00:37:44.929 --> 00:37:51.077 I never I enjoy it and for me it's gonna be a pleasure to be the house 00:37:51.110 --> 00:37:58.026 drummer. Yeah, dr Santee along with free weights. He ain't getting paid 00:37:58.059 --> 00:38:05.106 for that evening, but it's a pleasure for us to bring here. Where were you 00:38:05.139 --> 00:38:10.546 volunteered? But back about this club situation though. Uh he spoke about 00:38:10.579 --> 00:38:14.967 Macao's, I worked in the past several times myself with my own group and 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:20.577 uh the class is located uptown Manhattan, 97th street and columbus Avenue. 00:38:20.610 --> 00:38:24.827 Now amazon harmon. Now the idea that the class, the reason why I will 00:38:24.860 --> 00:38:28.137 welcome because either I did seven. I do still say that I did not like 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:34.776 clubs, the people that all of the club. This uh mike and todd mike and Pat 00:38:34.809 --> 00:38:41.486 , very nice people. Although I knew my preferences are I like to play a 00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:45.166 club maybe for a room. But when I said I didn't want to play a club. I 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.577 don't feel like going across country on a club to anymore. Richard. That's 00:38:48.610 --> 00:38:52.287 what I don't think you want to go, I don't want to go out for a new 00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:57.947 country, which we've all done. It can be in California two months later 00:38:57.980 --> 00:39:02.387 and 50 clubs later. You know, there's a group of, well, you can't use that. 00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:08.006 What I have now is I like to do a crab noble ones within a week and then 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:11.747 do some concerts and some luxury demonstrations and some other things that 00:39:11.780 --> 00:39:16.947 I also in jail solo concerts in situations like that. Uh, right now, I 00:39:16.980 --> 00:39:19.927 don't think a club is really hard, could hire so little drummer 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:23.727 necessarily. Well, that's basically everything to do. It still comes down 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:28.407 to dollars and cents is that we can't make money in clubs, but you have to 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:32.537 get your thing off movement there. But David to experience that you 00:39:32.570 --> 00:39:36.727 acquire the club is very important. I have to admit jazz has grand, I 00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:40.276 declared atmosphere itself. So the musician, the loose matches you 00:39:40.309 --> 00:39:43.956 acquired through those three or four sets a night. Let's face it. If 00:39:43.989 --> 00:39:47.166 you're not professionally, we left any instrument of concept can really do 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:51.427 you down. You gotta be ready. The club is a good thing to get together to 00:39:51.460 --> 00:39:54.896 learn to pace yourself to learn the things that you're gonna do on that 45 00:39:54.929 --> 00:39:59.017 minute concept. Uh, so I think it was important factor in john jazz 00:39:59.050 --> 00:40:03.157 musician to do to play the club personally. I think I just don't have 00:40:03.190 --> 00:40:06.876 enough of every 99 club situations, 00:40:06.909 --> 00:40:10.927 you know, the concerts, the clinics, their informative students are closer 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.097 to their, got a chance to really understand that you are definitely anyone 00:40:14.130 --> 00:40:18.847 and you breathe and you just like they do and that they can possibly do 00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:24.166 what you're doing. It's not something that's a wearable, that sort and it 00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:26.796 gives me a bit of a better chance to be here with myself. Sometimes the 00:40:26.829 --> 00:40:31.177 court atmosphere has a tendency to put you a little uptight. 00:40:31.210 --> 00:40:38.376 Yeah, I think, you know, uh, just, uh, most many fertilized this. Uh, I 00:40:38.409 --> 00:40:41.126 think that the club situation, which was the predominant source of the 00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:47.947 music for most of the time attributed to the short life span of a lot of 00:40:47.980 --> 00:40:53.727 jazz musicians. And uh, I think it's directly, we made it, uh, to that 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:58.477 environment, uh, psychologically and probably physically. So we don't 00:40:58.510 --> 00:41:03.606 really want to do that because we've learned a little from them. 00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:07.497 Don't you think it's, um, it's a little bit like the, the actor that wants 00:41:07.530 --> 00:41:13.396 to be on the broadway stage. You can start making movies. Uh huh. But I 00:41:13.429 --> 00:41:17.206 like the university for again, I'm talking from my own little small world 00:41:17.239 --> 00:41:22.626 is, it's a selfish motive. Uh, I haven't had to play a note of bullshit in 00:41:22.659 --> 00:41:30.659 15 years, huh. I mean it as winners as others. But the university 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:37.276 situation is a dream world situation. And if it's used properly and if we 00:41:37.309 --> 00:41:42.920 lay the right kind of music on the folks that can be a bastion of art. 00:41:43.309 --> 00:41:45.309 Nevertheless, I am speaking personally says, well, diversified 00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:53.477 environments and lives, uh, I just moved out here and I missed the hell 00:41:53.510 --> 00:41:57.477 out of playing in clubs. 00:41:57.510 --> 00:42:02.666 The still missing the recital hall gets to after a long I want to, I want 00:42:02.699 --> 00:42:07.037 to get loaded And I think we're talking about the main thing that seems to 00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:12.097 come out is that we all need diversification within our own musical lives. 00:42:12.130 --> 00:42:15.606 Nobody just wants to play all concerts. Nobody just wants to teach. 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:19.876 Nobody just wants to play clubs. You know, I think the change is important. 00:42:19.909 --> 00:42:23.767 I think that's true for any artist, whether it's a painter or dancer or 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:26.727 uh, you know, even a critic doesn't want to give you the same kind of 00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.396 wreckage right there. I mean, you get tired of that stuff after. Well, 00:42:29.429 --> 00:42:35.787 right. So the point is that we would go from, from one related field to 00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:39.827 another related field, kinetic gives you a, a different view of the 00:42:39.860 --> 00:42:46.456 situation after I do three or four concerts. I do want to play in a club. 00:42:46.489 --> 00:42:51.677 On the other hand, it's also a nice situation. And I think it's unique to 00:42:51.710 --> 00:42:55.827 this music. I can attest to that about Miles. Working with Miles. We'll 00:42:55.860 --> 00:43:01.117 have to two years, I worked with him, we play mostly concerts who's, uh, 00:43:01.150 --> 00:43:06.046 concentrated tours across, you know, big broad world out giant holes. But 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:12.506 we did play two clubs constantly and I was playing more investing and the 00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:17.606 keystone in san Francisco, we would play three sets and it was the best 00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:23.267 playing that I would get Miles do or he abandoned. I have to say, well I 00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:26.376 go along with the program with everybody there when it came down to 00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:34.166 concerts, I was with Aretha Franklin and the greatest thrill in the world. 00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:41.177 Oh, when we're finished at 11 o'clock, the concert, half the band with 00:43:41.210 --> 00:43:46.936 doing her club that evening playing along with the router. If somebody got 00:43:46.969 --> 00:43:52.526 lucky where after club was large enough to be wound up. She end up sitting 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:58.736 down playing the piano with the local guys around the town, which was a 00:43:58.769 --> 00:44:05.367 big thing for her and everybody else. But we are basically really feel the 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:10.066 same when it comes down to variety as one was said. But we know that we 00:44:10.099 --> 00:44:14.816 need clubs to get close to you. That's really good. But the only way that 00:44:14.849 --> 00:44:21.767 we can really get close to you to talk with you to have you two ft in 00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:27.896 front of us to look us in the face cause is out tell us if you like us and 00:44:27.929 --> 00:44:31.767 if you don't play your song, you have a chance to say what you want to say. 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:35.066 It's on your mind. I mean whether we accept it or not, there's something 00:44:35.099 --> 00:44:39.436 different, but you have the chance and the opportunity to make us get our 00:44:39.469 --> 00:44:46.436 thing off and I think that's basically what everything burns down to in 00:44:46.469 --> 00:44:54.469 the long run. We need you as well as your meeting us to do our thing and 00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:00.146 we end up doing our thing together. Could I ask a question I would like to 00:45:00.179 --> 00:45:03.807 know just I'll be a trailer out there, what do you think about that 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.986 situation? How do how do you like to sit down, what's your favorite spot 00:45:08.019 --> 00:45:16.019 to listen to music, concert, club, whatever. 00:45:18.889 --> 00:45:22.057 Mhm 00:45:22.090 --> 00:45:30.090 But it was, 00:45:30.289 --> 00:45:34.927 I had everybody here that he said he liked the club situation, he felt 00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:39.557 that he had a better relationship with his art with laddies. 00:45:39.590 --> 00:45:47.590 Say that again? 00:45:48.190 --> 00:45:53.856 Mhm Mhm 00:45:53.889 --> 00:46:01.889 Just to get to some music Uh huh. Right Yes dear. 00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:15.380 Mhm 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:23.146 Well, 00:46:23.179 --> 00:46:27.186 well I agree with you there because a lot of things are happening, the 00:46:27.219 --> 00:46:34.646 fear is becoming a big club for us. A lot of promoters buying theaters 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:41.847 where they can actually bring in a name artist can't afford to pay him 00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:47.887 make a profit and let the people enjoy and get closer almost as close as 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:53.787 you are would be in a club situation by being in the theater without being 00:46:53.820 --> 00:46:59.856 just in a big concert halls but coming into the theater where the actual 00:46:59.889 --> 00:47:06.717 seats of their clothes as you would go to watch the movies, so we find now 00:47:06.750 --> 00:47:14.097 that we're doing a lot more theaters that were uh concerts out bears and 00:47:14.130 --> 00:47:22.130 Carnegie hall in the the big big theaters in the Mhm. Mhm. In the cities, 00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:30.900 the major cities. So I think the theater is helping get the art is closer 00:47:30.989 --> 00:47:35.586 to the public. Yeah, I just want to make one point. I think that we're 00:47:35.619 --> 00:47:39.506 forgetting one thing when we talk about concerts versus close, we're 00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:43.416 talking about a wide diversification of music. When we say jazz, there's a 00:47:43.449 --> 00:47:47.126 lot of different kinds of music at this table. You know, like if we talk 00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:53.117 about bebop B but I mean I worked with stan Getz for a year and stan hated 00:47:53.150 --> 00:47:56.666 concerts because he was brought up in the clubs, he felt really 00:47:56.699 --> 00:47:59.586 comfortable in the club, he could skate, he could go to the bar, he could 00:47:59.619 --> 00:48:02.876 come back while the rhythm section played, he could look around, you know 00:48:02.909 --> 00:48:07.407 , he felt real good in the club and we do a concert and he always played 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:11.927 well, but he didn't feel as relaxed and miles even said once I went 00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:15.956 someplace and if he says how you gonna feel relaxed at a jazz concert, you 00:48:15.989 --> 00:48:22.666 know, a jazz concert. But then I'm a pianist and like last night duet we 00:48:22.699 --> 00:48:28.506 played together here mean Dave, I really need quiet for me to get over, I 00:48:28.539 --> 00:48:33.566 can get over in a noisy club. But if it's quiet, it gives me a blank 00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:38.977 canvas. It gives me a range of dynamics that are not available in most 00:48:39.010 --> 00:48:45.727 clubs because the competition with waitresses trying to hustle drinks with 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:48.686 people eating food. If you're sitting there and you have a drink in front 00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:51.626 of you, it's really weird not to talk to somebody, so you're going to talk 00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:56.517 to people, talk for people talk, that's it. They blow you to. So for the 00:48:56.550 --> 00:49:02.336 kind of music that I like to play concerts are better. But then again, I 00:49:02.369 --> 00:49:06.477 worked with Dave in, in february, in a quintet situation with randy 00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:10.807 brecker al Foster in the village Vanguard who played for a weekend. It was 00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.697 magic because people come to the vanguard and be quiet because it's been 00:49:15.730 --> 00:49:21.637 there for 40 years. So they come and they're quiet, that's respect. But 00:49:21.670 --> 00:49:25.936 and Bernard Mattel's is a whole other situation. Michaels is a party. 00:49:25.969 --> 00:49:30.717 Michaels is not, you know that music, you know, you go there to have a 00:49:30.750 --> 00:49:36.137 party, you really do you know what I'm saying? You're high. Right? So I 00:49:36.170 --> 00:49:39.807 think we got a really, even though there's a club, it's a club, still a 00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:43.827 club. Doesn't matter how we look at it. But it's a it's a club where 00:49:43.860 --> 00:49:48.537 people basically come out to listen to the music 00:49:48.570 --> 00:49:54.037 really do come out to listen. So, 00:49:54.070 --> 00:49:58.077 well, a lot of people come on, can be seen, okay, I agree right now, what 00:49:58.110 --> 00:50:01.356 we're talking about with mattel's, but I'm just saying, I have to go with 00:50:01.389 --> 00:50:04.706 , which is something that weighs well, it's a party. I mean, those people 00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:09.456 be so loud sometimes in there. That I mean, you can hear the more people 00:50:09.489 --> 00:50:12.986 than you can hear music. And I'm talking about the band is wide open. But 00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:17.256 the thing with me, we'll do downstairs man. Part of the music. I tell you 00:50:17.289 --> 00:50:20.947 , I think the party is part of that music. Yes, it is. I believe 00:50:20.980 --> 00:50:24.577 definitely not talking and drinking and hanging. You don't want to play. 00:50:24.610 --> 00:50:28.236 You don't want to play in a dead quiet hall that well, I bring with you. 00:50:28.269 --> 00:50:32.856 But the biggest thing for me is that half the time I do not hear the 00:50:32.889 --> 00:50:38.787 people when I get involved with the guys in the band and if that man were 00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:44.356 on stage sure I see the people but I really don't hear because I 00:50:44.389 --> 00:50:49.876 concentrate and put my counsel and my thoughts into the music. And once we 00:50:49.909 --> 00:50:55.186 get off, if the band gets off on each other and we've done what's 00:50:55.219 --> 00:50:59.736 necessary to get our thing off to the people because then the people began 00:50:59.769 --> 00:51:04.347 to come and get into you. But as long as we are into ourselves and we play 00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:11.327 , I mean we really play and excuse me, kick ass's they appreciate it. And 00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:16.537 they show it. And that happens to be a big thing. And I think that 00:51:16.570 --> 00:51:21.787 basically we have to do that, we were on concerts for the big holes, We 00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:26.657 have to get into ourselves before we have to we cannot worry about what is 00:51:26.690 --> 00:51:32.497 out there and don't get me wrong, we love you. We love you. We definitely 00:51:32.530 --> 00:51:37.037 have to get into ourselves in order for you to get into us because we know 00:51:37.070 --> 00:51:41.686 that you are looking and watching and waiting for us to make a mistake so 00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:46.436 you can talk about it. And I can't blame me because I go myself to see the 00:51:46.469 --> 00:51:51.416 same. That's funny. But I go along with that because the band that plays 00:51:51.449 --> 00:51:55.657 curses a lot, like when we work opposite friends and said wake up during 00:51:55.690 --> 00:52:01.626 the classroom massachusetts remember now that was a band, not only did 00:52:01.659 --> 00:52:05.807 concerts from the very beginning, almost because of the sound solo. And 00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:10.657 those guys that because that's the stage, $10,000. Like it was a club, you 00:52:10.690 --> 00:52:14.097 see. So it's relative because if you're playing concerts all the time, I'm 00:52:14.130 --> 00:52:19.747 sure the retail after, Well, it's 10,000, 20,010, 100 it's still like 00:52:19.780 --> 00:52:22.546 you're gonna, you're gonna get into that culture. It kind of has to do 00:52:22.579 --> 00:52:27.057 with the artist. But we're in jazz, I think particularly in jazz and in 00:52:27.090 --> 00:52:29.867 the kind of music, you know, the difference what rich is talking about 00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:34.796 when I play. It's, uh, the situations are vastly different. I mean, to do 00:52:34.829 --> 00:52:41.916 that, but we played last night, they said we have to do with playing 00:52:41.949 --> 00:52:45.756 in this environment, maybe a couple 100 people and that really would be 00:52:45.789 --> 00:52:50.856 pretty good attention. Wanted to do the music, we go on sunday. So know 00:52:50.889 --> 00:52:57.617 that your students, there's a level of, you know, you go then. Um, yeah, I 00:52:57.650 --> 00:53:00.066 mean, you know what the problem is that you're going to have to have like 00:53:00.099 --> 00:53:05.977 89,000 people by that time, maybe by the end. Uh, I mean the majority of 00:53:06.010 --> 00:53:10.177 people have heard of which you and I several, several images just as well. 00:53:10.210 --> 00:53:13.197 This is going to be very small. And I think that's a great thing that 00:53:13.230 --> 00:53:17.017 boosts the clear maybe did to mix it up like that. I think that's great. 00:53:17.050 --> 00:53:20.097 We have a description of musicians for the first nine at the time. For 00:53:20.130 --> 00:53:23.347 instance, in our set, we're going to have a different kind of set because 00:53:23.380 --> 00:53:27.307 of the distance and amount of people it's over. But just because the 00:53:27.340 --> 00:53:30.767 attention span, you will probably be different based on the experience of 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:36.166 such a kind of event. What are we going to be good? That's it. I can't 00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:40.447 help but be good. Let me ask you. Let me ask you general. I've heard, I've 00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.916 heard this idea when I've heard uh, remain nameless. But I've heard some 00:53:43.949 --> 00:53:48.137 musicians say they prefer the recording studio because everything is 00:53:48.170 --> 00:53:53.327 perfect there. What is the reaction? You don't want, you don't want to, 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:57.416 you want some resistance. No saying you want resistance. Sometimes you 00:53:57.449 --> 00:54:02.197 want we need resistance. I mean that was perfect. The pearl comes from an 00:54:02.230 --> 00:54:05.396 abrasion on the middle of the oyster. You know what I'm saying. There's no 00:54:05.429 --> 00:54:10.316 pearl without that, that, that sand in there, you know, so a diamond comes 00:54:10.349 --> 00:54:16.006 from pressure corny. But uh, I like, I particularly like pressure 00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:20.006 situations because it wakes me up because I've been playing the piano 00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:24.157 since I'm about five years old and I've played most, most of the kind of 00:54:24.190 --> 00:54:28.497 places that you can play. And I tell you the two of you, I go to sleep 00:54:28.530 --> 00:54:32.206 unless there's something on it. You know, I'm not saying it's nice to play 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:36.177 when you're sick or your, your leg is broken, although that's happened 00:54:36.210 --> 00:54:41.227 plenty of times. I was in India, well, Dave and I got a little amoeba, you 00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:44.477 know, and uh, we played a lot of concerts and there were a lot of bass on 00:54:44.510 --> 00:54:47.717 , there was instead of piano selves, there's a lot of like quick exits, 00:54:47.750 --> 00:54:52.456 you know what I'm saying? So and that was at the time I didn't like it, 00:54:52.489 --> 00:54:57.066 but it taught me something, you know, to show must go on really some 00:54:57.099 --> 00:55:00.597 vaudeville, you know, it's talking about forever. So I particularly do not 00:55:00.630 --> 00:55:04.307 like perfect situations, you know, like when you get out of this, you know 00:55:04.340 --> 00:55:08.296 , here's the magnificent Steinway and there's a great sound system and 00:55:08.329 --> 00:55:11.467 there's a drunken lady in the front that's cursing and asking you to play 00:55:11.500 --> 00:55:17.787 a song, you know that it makes it makes it special. It puts a one time 00:55:17.820 --> 00:55:23.006 thing on it, you know, I don't like that plastic environment, you know, 00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:27.206 I could never be a studio musician. I would be shot. Yeah, I agree. That 00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:32.436 that situation perfect. I don't think the studio apartment first. I know a 00:55:32.469 --> 00:55:36.006 lot of people call it perfect. But it really isn't, it's controlled 00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:38.907 control contrived, 00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:44.986 you know? But myself, I think the challenge of an audience, is it the 00:55:45.019 --> 00:55:47.497 surprise is that you can get out of an audience, you never know what the 00:55:47.530 --> 00:55:52.276 noise is gonna like as many people that are out there, as many different 00:55:52.309 --> 00:55:56.566 preferences of what they would like to hear. And artists really up on the 00:55:56.599 --> 00:56:01.577 spot to please our open those people up to something new or whatever. The 00:56:01.610 --> 00:56:05.927 surprise that excites me. I like that myself. I can sometimes even go to 00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:13.960 the point of creating surprise myself. Well, I think that yeah, go ahead. 00:56:21.130 --> 00:56:28.177 I love I love it, love it. We love it. That's really the thing for us to 00:56:28.210 --> 00:56:33.637 really have a particular look when when he done, when we've done it solo 00:56:33.670 --> 00:56:37.967 and you like to sell applaud no matter even if you do it by yourself or 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:44.407 flawed. Mhm Because we then we know that you're into us, You're into what 00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:49.796 is happening what is going on. We need it. Sure we understand that when 00:56:49.829 --> 00:56:55.497 you get to the end, you'll give a big vega pub. But that one in the middle 00:56:55.530 --> 00:57:03.530 is another thing how mercy Uh huh mm hmm. Mhm. Any other questions? We'll 00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:09.296 take the last 10 minutes of this for questions 00:57:09.329 --> 00:57:17.329 ahead. 00:57:20.829 --> 00:57:28.829 Going into? 00:57:33.530 --> 00:57:37.856 Yes, we feel the pressure from the producer. The man who's putting out the 00:57:37.889 --> 00:57:43.166 money. Our problem is is that when we get into those kind of situations 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:49.177 and everybody up here, unless you are the man is in charge, we have to go 00:57:49.210 --> 00:57:55.497 along with the program. Yeah. Actually toiled basically 00:57:55.530 --> 00:58:00.247 what they want. Now the artist, half the time we don't have anything to 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:06.486 say if the producer happens to be a head Albert, mm please, you know, I 00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:12.856 mean, let's face it, you actually have gone across and it becomes to them 00:58:12.889 --> 00:58:17.747 commercialized record that they want to program you. It's like anything 00:58:17.780 --> 00:58:21.947 else. You end up getting program after a certain period of time where 00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:26.626 their field is that the masses of what they would be able to sell to make 00:58:26.659 --> 00:58:31.756 money. Now, he's in the business to make money. So we have to go along 00:58:31.789 --> 00:58:38.347 with what the masses, not what individuals are basically going to like. So 00:58:38.380 --> 00:58:45.756 we were basically told what what we have to play now because we are 00:58:45.789 --> 00:58:51.566 fortunate enough to be virtual two players, Everybody up here, we still 00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:56.907 get a chance to put a little bit of us in it. Now for me it's it's a great 00:58:56.940 --> 00:59:04.940 thing because I know but I can turn myself off, I can turn on and turn off 00:59:05.449 --> 00:59:09.396 just like you turn the record player on and off what I'm called to do a 00:59:09.429 --> 00:59:14.296 job and it basically needs to keep my mouth shut because if it came down 00:59:14.329 --> 00:59:21.856 to I had to do if I go out to do a job, if I don't like it. And at one 00:59:21.889 --> 00:59:27.506 time I said for almost 10 years I was almost I was blacklisted and 00:59:27.539 --> 00:59:33.686 blackballed from the music industry because I had a big mouth, but 00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:37.586 everything I seem to say, 00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:42.637 so long as I kept making things work and kept things happening, people 00:59:42.670 --> 00:59:47.486 would call me. But the minute that something it looked like it wasn't 00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:51.517 going to happen and they didn't sell any records and they didn't do this 00:59:51.550 --> 00:59:55.436 and they didn't do that and didn't make any money. Uh well don't call 00:59:55.469 --> 01:00:01.697 petty because he talks to that much. But I was fortunate man that the 01:00:01.730 --> 01:00:08.977 things that I said worked, I tried to be as creative as possible without 01:00:09.010 --> 01:00:12.626 getting in the way and affecting the position and making a producer looks 01:00:12.659 --> 01:00:17.936 small. But in the beginning I was wrong. I was just loud. I just had a big 01:00:17.969 --> 01:00:21.497 mouth and I wanted to say what I had to say whether the guy called me back 01:00:21.530 --> 01:00:25.977 enough, I don't care. But now I've learned how to control it. I've learned 01:00:26.010 --> 01:00:31.276 how to shut up once in a while. 01:00:31.309 --> 01:00:38.177 It's I had a problem. You answer? All right, Well actually this is uh yeah 01:00:38.210 --> 01:00:43.416 , for Aaron Brenner's case and he happens to be a great catalyst and 01:00:43.449 --> 01:00:47.537 actually data pool areas, it was his record too hard and just you know, it 01:00:47.570 --> 01:00:51.307 was like you could tell that I was there. It was to catalyze the rhythm 01:00:51.340 --> 01:00:53.977 section and get the flu that happened and so forth. And that's what he's 01:00:54.010 --> 01:00:56.727 known for and that's what he does. I think that the situation of 01:00:56.760 --> 01:01:01.177 compromise that we're referring to, whether it be guarded by anybody, 01:01:01.210 --> 01:01:04.947 first of all is very personal to each artist. Uh we'd have to ask each 01:01:04.980 --> 01:01:10.367 artist if he feels he's compromising. First of all. Second of um certain 01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:16.017 artists uh you know have set themselves and have done that as strongly as 01:01:16.050 --> 01:01:20.767 the kind of artist who set themselves the opposite way. Talk about being a 01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:25.787 very aesthetic, you know, um Purest kind of approach. I mean there are 01:01:25.820 --> 01:01:28.847 guys who have to see that career as stronger as somebody who's just 01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.376 pursuing standing on their head or play four instruments with one hand, 01:01:32.409 --> 01:01:37.316 you know, metal is the range of characteristics that makes you public 01:01:37.349 --> 01:01:42.157 makes you seem that makes you noticeable. But I think that it really comes 01:01:42.190 --> 01:01:47.876 down to each artist and actually you is missing is uh you know, it's up to 01:01:47.909 --> 01:01:51.907 you of kind of formulate an opinion based on when you hear the man's music 01:01:51.940 --> 01:01:56.617 and this is such a great change in the maybe a record or two I guess it's 01:01:56.650 --> 01:02:00.287 obvious to think that there was pressure put on. But you cannot always be 01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:05.347 sure that I know I had that situation one of my records what I did and got 01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:10.006 a lot of flak for that from critics, different people. So it would be a 01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:13.646 self out notice God. But you know, and actually I really wanted to do that 01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:18.617 and I have had about my mind for years. You know what? I would talk to 01:02:18.650 --> 01:02:22.046 somebody by like a trace the music revolution. I give reasons for you and 01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:26.956 so forth. But the point is that I think that his listeners should be, you 01:02:26.989 --> 01:02:31.137 know, in general, the critics and listeners are kind of left are musicians 01:02:31.170 --> 01:02:34.977 who makes up the little different than what they're known for because you 01:02:35.010 --> 01:02:38.447 actually lighten up sometimes and make the artist had the freedom for a 01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:42.236 while because then he can probably move maneuver in a different way. 01:02:42.269 --> 01:02:45.427 Especially Cincinnati's career is not based on one or two or three 01:02:45.460 --> 01:02:49.776 records. Hopefully it's based on you shouldn't get up. Maybe you look at 01:02:49.809 --> 01:02:54.427 the man's out out. Let me say this is what he's done and have two covers. 01:02:54.460 --> 01:03:00.307 A lot of runs to me. That's that's a kind of a thank you. That's very, 01:03:00.340 --> 01:03:03.566 very hard. Yes, sir. 01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:11.599 Mm hmm. Mhm Yeah. 01:03:15.500 --> 01:03:20.967 Mhm Uh huh. 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:29.000 Mhm. 01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:37.467 Mhm All right. 01:03:37.500 --> 01:03:40.456 Uh 01:03:40.489 --> 01:03:47.666 are you okay? Uh huh. 01:03:47.699 --> 01:03:50.867 Mhm. Mhm. 01:03:50.900 --> 01:03:58.900 Do you feel as though that's well going, mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So well, 01:04:02.690 --> 01:04:07.856 mm Well, I mean, I don't want to use poor chickens and it's happening. 01:04:07.889 --> 01:04:14.927 Yeah. Is a great musician. Um I think that uh I think that was happening 01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:20.537 that is that there has been a move in the last years to have more composed 01:04:20.570 --> 01:04:24.247 music. Just it just happens to be happening in jazz or whatever you wanna 01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:27.727 call. And that's kind of one of the fusions that we're talking about the 01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:33.256 trail of written music playing the part at a certain time in on the record 01:04:33.289 --> 01:04:37.276 of this in the music. And then we have a 16 bars that provides and then a 01:04:37.309 --> 01:04:41.597 whole page of music orderliness in line or something like that has become 01:04:41.630 --> 01:04:45.416 uh it's actually it's what now what is called an innovation but it's not 01:04:45.449 --> 01:04:48.427 in a significant characteristics of the music in the seventies. And it 01:04:48.460 --> 01:04:52.367 said might say that's in the light check. We're trying the Brooklyn's 01:04:52.400 --> 01:04:56.497 great first week uh unless some of the people who made that happen like 01:04:56.530 --> 01:05:00.967 that. And I think it's a very valid form of, you know, include 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:05.066 improvisation. But I think it has a place in the music. Obviously you want 01:05:05.099 --> 01:05:09.597 to miss the flavor of proposition will check for instance on this tour 01:05:09.630 --> 01:05:13.896 that I did. There was quite a lot with map but there was always at least 01:05:13.929 --> 01:05:17.936 one or two stretched out saying it's not a 20 minute cellos. I'm not 01:05:17.969 --> 01:05:22.097 saying that they were the main event of the evening but there is a pretty 01:05:22.130 --> 01:05:25.986 good balance and at least in his case of written and it there's music in 01:05:26.019 --> 01:05:29.367 the case of the ground like that if you France is so great. You know, you 01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:33.506 can advise, he can say as much as 8000. Some people that say in 18 minutes 01:05:33.539 --> 01:05:37.126 and we're not really going to miss it. It's the guys that they recognize 01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:43.227 that well to look at it as a listener, but we think that a little too much 01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:46.117 composition really, because it's the quality of the conversation is really 01:05:46.150 --> 01:05:51.526 high badly that it may not take up that much time read. And also, I think 01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:54.157 also that 01:05:54.190 --> 01:05:58.416 on you, the public as opposed to something that's her at five or six new 01:05:58.449 --> 01:06:02.356 kinds of arrangements. Don't That that's the way any particular item is 01:06:02.389 --> 01:06:07.557 going, that that's changing the whole style of what you call jazz, because 01:06:07.590 --> 01:06:11.717 you've heard several arranged compositions. I think there was absolutely 01:06:11.750 --> 01:06:16.347 right. Anybody deserves the right to try things. I think train and 01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:20.247 everybody was experimental and things that they did. And uh, things that 01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:23.447 you're talking about now are still experimental things chick did it and 01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:27.316 other people, uh I've been involved in something like that. So, it also, 01:06:27.349 --> 01:06:31.506 but that's not the trend of the music is going in that direction is just 01:06:31.539 --> 01:06:37.367 another thing to do. I think you should be accepted that way. It's not 01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:40.197 that anything is going to take over anything. It's just something else to 01:06:40.230 --> 01:06:43.776 do with the music. I mean it has a large thing to draft from withdrawing 01:06:43.809 --> 01:06:47.146 so many areas, so many different things, different ways to approach this 01:06:47.179 --> 01:06:52.606 music. That's just another way with some, with some jazz musicians today, 01:06:52.639 --> 01:06:56.816 especially the ones who have crossed over into a larger audience, whatever 01:06:56.849 --> 01:07:02.356 you wanna call it. They use jazz as a texture rather than the basis of the 01:07:02.389 --> 01:07:07.006 music. They use latin music as a texture, they use composition as a 01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:11.546 texture, they use uh so they use the elements of music to put together a 01:07:11.579 --> 01:07:15.727 style rather than just get up there and play all things you offer an hour 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.876 and a half, which is totally valid if you can sustain it. You know, there 01:07:18.909 --> 01:07:22.436 are very few that can you know, I think that that's what again I talked 01:07:22.469 --> 01:07:28.276 about the era of synthesis. Jazz has been around for 75 years now. So that 01:07:28.309 --> 01:07:34.347 the fact is that there are a lot of subsections over there, a lot of sub 01:07:34.380 --> 01:07:41.046 uhh titles, two different kinds of jazz, you know. And ah there are some 01:07:41.079 --> 01:07:46.517 some uh men now that are really interested in just being jazz based aisles 01:07:46.550 --> 01:07:51.186 and not totally giving to that one ear. You know, even someone like Herbie 01:07:51.219 --> 01:07:55.637 who has done everything possible and he's like always going back and forth. 01:07:55.670 --> 01:07:59.796 He's just a creative creative musician, you know, he knows his jazz, he 01:07:59.829 --> 01:08:03.177 was his funk, he was his latin music having is Hollywood strings, he 01:08:03.210 --> 01:08:07.736 doesn't care who used it all. You know, now I just want to say something 01:08:07.769 --> 01:08:11.396 about this because I feel from the audience and I used to feel this way 01:08:11.429 --> 01:08:14.986 too when you're listening to a lot of heavy music, when you learn, 01:08:15.019 --> 01:08:17.796 especially if you want to be a musician, you listen to the master's is to 01:08:17.829 --> 01:08:22.206 train and you listen to miles and bird and you come up on that heaviness, 01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:26.227 that weight, that depth, that soul searching thing that you want. And then 01:08:26.260 --> 01:08:31.406 you hear your favorite musicians, uh maybe they moved to the west coast 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:34.116 and they certainly put together a different kind of music, more commercial 01:08:34.149 --> 01:08:37.397 music, more accessible as more hooks than it is definite musical things 01:08:37.430 --> 01:08:42.687 that you can say. Um the first reaction is why did he do that? I mean, why 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:46.786 did you do that? What what that feeling is? You are outraged. You are 01:08:46.819 --> 01:08:52.347 personally upset at what your expectations are of that artist. You want 01:08:52.380 --> 01:08:56.267 him to continue what he was doing. That's very weird when you think about 01:08:56.300 --> 01:09:00.317 it, of course, it's up to him to lay down what he wants to do. Now, 01:09:00.350 --> 01:09:03.326 everyone has their own expectations, but if they're not met, that doesn't 01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:07.196 mean that he's wrong. It means that you were surprised there are some 01:09:07.229 --> 01:09:10.336 people that based their whole careers aren't surprising people do. You 01:09:10.369 --> 01:09:14.677 know what I'm saying? So you have to take that with a lot of salt. You 01:09:14.710 --> 01:09:17.446 know, you have to get like they say you have to give them a lot of rope. 01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:20.967 There are some obvious concessions that are disgusting and that I mean we 01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:24.656 can talk about I mean Freddie Hubbard who was really handled badly and his 01:09:24.689 --> 01:09:30.116 records were really like they destroyed him and the horrible thing is that 01:09:30.149 --> 01:09:36.597 he sold 250 records. Smart producing Freddy and mold. Some genius trumpet 01:09:36.630 --> 01:09:40.246 player Freddy went public and millions of interviews saying that he was 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:46.296 unhappy. He was unhappy is unhappy. Finally he his last record is a really 01:09:46.329 --> 01:09:49.956 good to me. Jazz record. It's a similar kind of record that used to do on 01:09:49.989 --> 01:09:55.227 C. T. I. Even blue note you know so like there's a situation where a major 01:09:55.260 --> 01:09:59.477 artist went through a cycle and changed also Herbie came back and changed 01:09:59.510 --> 01:10:03.237 chick and Herbie did a duet tour. You know there's a lot of things going 01:10:03.270 --> 01:10:06.777 on. So what I'm just saying is don't have expectations for the artist and 01:10:06.810 --> 01:10:13.626 if you're outraged check yourself out. Thank you thank you. Thank you. 01:10:13.659 --> 01:10:21.659 Thank you. All right. Mhm. 01:10:27.659 --> 01:10:35.659 I mean you think we like you. Oh man don't you dare don't we put them in. 01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:42.427 My goodness gracious like this. Why 01:10:42.460 --> 01:10:46.817 old psychological. That's okay. Oh. Oh that's all right. I don't think 01:10:46.850 --> 01:10:52.517 it's such a long sideburns bernard. Huh? Oh 01:10:52.550 --> 01:11:00.550 say that again. Okay let me oh say it again. Mhm. Mhm. You play drums. No 01:11:03.170 --> 01:11:08.727 wonder I knew you were looking at me for a reason. Go ahead. 01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:16.760 Mhm. You're rockaway would I'm a rocket Road, you know? Go ahead 01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:25.760 company. Oh yeah. Mhm, mm hmm. Mhm. Okay. 01:11:28.060 --> 01:11:33.557 Mhm. Mhm. Well one of the best things in the world and one of the best 01:11:33.590 --> 01:11:39.326 examples is right here, I was called rock a vera. I mean, I think cause 01:11:39.359 --> 01:11:45.006 public was concerned, I knew nothing but rock and roll. Mhm. Uh why 01:11:45.039 --> 01:11:51.217 couldn't it be called a dreamer? That's all. I mean it I don't want to, I 01:11:51.250 --> 01:11:54.786 wouldn't even accept not even being called a musician. Just call me a 01:11:54.819 --> 01:12:00.656 dreamer. Why do I have to be a rock and roll? I'm a rock n roll call party. 01:12:00.689 --> 01:12:05.897 He's the rock and roll drummer. Well I met a lot of money, but the point 01:12:05.930 --> 01:12:11.057 was to was to be called a drummer because when I started out playing, I 01:12:11.090 --> 01:12:16.506 was playing with the big game at the age of 10, yes, playing a big band, 01:12:16.539 --> 01:12:20.286 having a ball, having a good time. Didn't know what the hell I was doing, 01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:26.187 but I was having a good time. And as things, moving on, I learned how to 01:12:26.220 --> 01:12:31.857 play. You're right. As you say on the spot training, you know, I learned 01:12:31.890 --> 01:12:37.786 how to play with other people as time went on. I mean I got to certain 01:12:37.819 --> 01:12:42.397 points where it doesn't matter, it still doesn't to me today, it doesn't 01:12:42.430 --> 01:12:48.277 matter who I play for now. I had a ball playing Jeff back, I had a ball 01:12:48.310 --> 01:12:54.116 playing God Obama yet. I haven't even bigger ball playing teeth. It's 01:12:54.149 --> 01:12:59.727 wonderful. We want to have a good time playing with 52 dramas. We love it. 01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:04.427 We're not in competition with one another. I'm prettier than he is. So I 01:13:04.460 --> 01:13:08.916 don't have to worry, I'm in good shape. 01:13:08.949 --> 01:13:13.376 I'm not happy note. I think we will conclude I want to thank all the 01:13:13.409 --> 01:13:17.126 panelists. But also I think what was raised here at the end is very 01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:24.086 important. We all tend to over label and over define things and jazz which 01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:28.616 in some ways is in itself a label. But jazz is a music that is very 01:13:28.649 --> 01:13:34.946 diversified and very broad. So resist the temptation to try to pigeonhole 01:13:34.979 --> 01:13:41.607 it and define it too narrowly. And give the artist room two search and 01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:46.916 find and discover and help you discover things. Jazz is a music of great 01:13:46.949 --> 01:13:52.416 generosity of spirit. And I think that our panelists have shown some 01:13:52.449 --> 01:13:58.597 reasons why that is so stay tuned to this channel because very shortly 01:13:58.630 --> 01:14:03.347 we'll have for you, Anthony Braxton talking to you and with you about his 01:14:03.380 --> 01:14:09.817 music. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you. 01:14:09.850 --> 01:14:14.817 Yeah. Off to school. 01:14:14.850 --> 01:14:17.649 Mhm. Mhm.Okay