WEBVTT 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:04.839 Hey look yeah the inventor, nothing is going to put yeah, 00:00:09.339 --> 00:00:11.607 just, 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:19.640 well 00:00:27.469 --> 00:00:35.469 he was the chief of everyone. Mhm. 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.107 Mhm. 00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:43.707 Uh huh. 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:49.516 I can't I can't represent anything. Do anything. So no woman. Our records 00:00:49.549 --> 00:00:53.506 , William Thompson. 00:00:53.539 --> 00:00:59.307 Mhm Yeah 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:01.906 we do next. 00:01:01.939 --> 00:01:07.837 That was everybody's agreed to let me start. They're all my good friends 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:12.107 so I haven't a clue 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:16.176 were discovered. But I guess what we all four have in common is each of us 00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:21.286 is experimenting in a different way with communities and this seems to be 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:25.897 also what you're involved in. Uhh so I suppose the best thing to do is to 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:32.307 talk something about community and cultural transformation and I'll try to 00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:37.447 talk to just a short time, return the favor to harvey um what I've been 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:42.137 doing the last two years or so is since I first visited Apollo to come out 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:47.307 here in August of 71 to see cassandra and go to the Hopi snake dance and 00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:50.857 and look at two different kind of visions of the transformation of human 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:53.546 culture which reminded me a lot of Arthur C Clarke's novel the city and 00:01:53.579 --> 00:01:57.406 the stars won the kind of diaspora. The this division of the affirmation 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:02.057 of the city as a vehicle cultural vehicle of cultural human evolution. And 00:02:02.090 --> 00:02:06.236 then the Hopi vision of more the smaller pueblo and the idea of 00:02:06.269 --> 00:02:10.547 consciousness itself as its own vehicle cultural evolution. And so I've 00:02:10.580 --> 00:02:12.997 been traveling around and looking at various kinds of places around the 00:02:13.030 --> 00:02:16.717 world going to Oroville and India and the Thin horn community in Scotland 00:02:16.750 --> 00:02:19.846 where they talked to plans and have a kind of spiritual community there. 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:23.797 Maybe I'm interested in mysticism and science and the convergence between 00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:27.856 these seeming opposite and went to a community in Germany that's a 00:02:27.889 --> 00:02:33.756 research foundation uh huh For Eastern wisdom and Western science, which 00:02:33.789 --> 00:02:39.177 is concerned with the interface between physics and yoga and the thing 00:02:39.210 --> 00:02:43.867 that seems to be happening all around the world is that industrial society 00:02:43.900 --> 00:02:50.606 and its limit of growth is beginning to d structure. Sometimes we sense 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:54.117 that is destroying itself. So we generate large mythologies of cosmic 00:02:54.150 --> 00:02:59.267 destruction of the limits to growth, variety and ecological catastrophe 00:02:59.300 --> 00:03:03.557 ending human culture by the year 2000. But whether or not it's destroying 00:03:03.590 --> 00:03:07.916 itself, it definitely seems to be de structuring itself and that a lot of 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:11.307 the things that were necessary before are no longer necessary in their new 00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:16.536 possibilities, that you no longer in a sense, once the cities contain the 00:03:16.569 --> 00:03:19.547 definition of human culture and you have to go to the city because that's 00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:23.017 where it was, that you had to go to London or new york or or whatever. And 00:03:23.050 --> 00:03:26.767 now there seems to be an intense kind of energy surrounding the planet 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:30.647 itself that's spilling the energy everywhere in the center is everywhere 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:35.196 in the circumference is nowhere. So that follow salary Scottsdale or bucky 00:03:35.229 --> 00:03:39.446 fuller when he used to be in Carbondale or all sorts of people spread out 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:43.117 in all sorts of out of the way, places are more intensely involved in the 00:03:43.150 --> 00:03:47.106 sense with the center of things and those sophisticated new Yorkers or 00:03:47.139 --> 00:03:52.527 people in paris who are working on a definition of what culture is by 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:57.807 looking pretty much at the past, when sort of profits begin talking about 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:01.307 the future, they're often really just looking at the present and using the 00:04:01.340 --> 00:04:04.797 future as an imaginative way to describe the implications of the present 00:04:04.830 --> 00:04:07.656 and they see more clearly the present in the way that blake understood 00:04:07.689 --> 00:04:11.066 what the industrial revolution is all about, better than the experts did. 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:14.416 And you can see it quite early when other people look at the present, 00:04:14.449 --> 00:04:18.507 they look at it and begin to describe the past and see in terms of 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:21.507 institutions, what human culture is all about, that you have to go to 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:25.906 universities to be wise churches to be holy, and you have to go to 00:04:25.939 --> 00:04:29.447 concerts and museums to find what art is all about. And now it seems to me 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:33.306 that that's pretty much ending. And there's an intense kind of energy 00:04:33.339 --> 00:04:37.746 flowing everywhere and that it's almost as if what to go to Chardon 00:04:37.779 --> 00:04:41.947 described as the Noah's sphere is not a metaphor that there is actually a 00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:45.306 psychic field of energy, enveloping the planet as a per beautiful 00:04:45.339 --> 00:04:47.726 description of this in a novel by Doris lessing called briefing for a 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.726 descent into hell, which a guy takes a ride in the crystal and sees the 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.916 earth and knows it for the first time, that this psychic field of energy 00:04:55.949 --> 00:05:00.736 is an envelopment of consciousness that has contained in it. The seeds of 00:05:00.769 --> 00:05:05.786 what will perhaps later become institutions. Although it may be at a we 00:05:05.819 --> 00:05:08.656 may be in a situation now in human cultural evolution where institutions 00:05:08.689 --> 00:05:12.767 themselves, they may no longer be as necessary as say, once we're in that 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:19.327 we now can afford a kind of anarchism that that was only um imagined by 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:23.666 science fiction writers before. But this, this envelopment of energy is so 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:27.827 intense that it seems to be that the the only way to get at it is in the 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:31.277 sense of one of the ways. But let's say the only way, just for the sake of 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:34.656 rhetoric, uh, so that harvey and I can have something to argue about. The 00:05:34.689 --> 00:05:38.457 only way to get at it is in a sense to ask yourself what happens when I 00:05:38.490 --> 00:05:41.416 subtract the institution from my identity, What happens when I subtract 00:05:41.449 --> 00:05:44.817 the job from my identity and facing the absolute burden of your freedom 00:05:44.850 --> 00:05:49.207 and counting, encountering the consciousness of the self that seems to be 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.457 withdrawing from civilization and culture. But by a paradoxical turn of 00:05:52.490 --> 00:05:55.656 the spiral, you find yourself very much in the center of things that 00:05:55.689 --> 00:05:58.726 center that is everywhere in the circumference that is nowhere. And you 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:01.996 come out of walking out of institutional, urban, industrial nation state 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:05.356 culture and finding yourself converging with all sorts of other people 00:06:05.389 --> 00:06:08.406 walking out and you find yourself right smack in the in the middle of a 00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:13.317 planetary renaissance and that there is something is going on of a an 00:06:13.350 --> 00:06:19.507 enormously exciting energizing and re visioning of human culture that 00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:23.717 can't be contained by institutions that so now it seems that institutions 00:06:23.750 --> 00:06:28.757 are no longer adequate vehicles of cultural evolution and that the 00:06:28.790 --> 00:06:33.616 paradoxical relationship between the human group has an evolution of group 00:06:33.649 --> 00:06:37.077 consciousness, not the institution. This is more a psychic geometry like 00:06:37.110 --> 00:06:41.486 coins tossed a teaching and the individual and his aloneness converge. And 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.947 there becomes a very crossing to use a christian metaphor of the unique 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:51.726 individual in all his supremely individuated and uh solitary qualities and 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:55.406 the universal as if you took a snowflake. And you saw that it was a unique 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:59.027 crystal, but that all snow is white. And there was this convergence of 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:02.637 unique and universal and that through the energizing of the unique is the 00:07:02.670 --> 00:07:05.996 discovery of the Universal. This is in a sense what the rock groups were 00:07:06.029 --> 00:07:08.527 messing around with and what the Beatles were messing around with, the 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:12.527 more you became an individual, the more you had to contribute to that uh 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.387 super organic unity. That was the Beatles. That's a kind of mystical 00:07:16.420 --> 00:07:20.046 paternity. The old political definition is that the individual doesn't 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.457 matter you're a unit and in order to matter you have to be counted because 00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:26.036 that's what really counts. And you've got to be gathered together in the 00:07:26.069 --> 00:07:29.796 form of votes and dollars and large mass demonstrations and if you've got 00:07:29.829 --> 00:07:33.486 enough units in the mass somehow you have power and you could take over 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:38.007 the White house or elevate the pentagon and you could begin to really heat 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:42.166 things up and matt hand matter. So the definition of the self was a 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.976 material one and it was very much industrial. So that the incense The new 00:07:47.009 --> 00:07:49.856 left movement which we all recognize this failed. It was over just as the 00:07:49.889 --> 00:07:54.596 60s are over, counterculture thing is ended and the rock things in And 00:07:54.629 --> 00:07:57.837 something else is beginning again, like waves coming in on the shore. 00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:01.106 Something else is hitting us now the 70s are very different from the 60. 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:06.947 So that the paradox was that the political people in power were trying to 00:08:06.980 --> 00:08:10.017 consolidate everybody and the political revolutionaries outside of power, 00:08:10.050 --> 00:08:14.067 we're trying to consolidate everybody and that we were all locked into a 00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:16.687 political and industrial model of what human culture was all about. So 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:21.017 that if we wanted on the one hand too revision culture, we still had to 00:08:21.050 --> 00:08:24.447 pick up the same old tools of the industrial nation state so that it 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.306 became very clear that the revolution had to go deeper than that it had to 00:08:27.339 --> 00:08:31.777 be a transformation of consciousness and to do that one had to think in 00:08:31.810 --> 00:08:35.986 larger terms than just industrial technology. What happens if you subtract 00:08:36.019 --> 00:08:40.217 technology from yourself, You end up getting involved in a mysticism. So 00:08:40.250 --> 00:08:43.626 that Mysticism in a way whether it was the Chardin variety that paul is 00:08:43.659 --> 00:08:48.636 interested in, but the sri or of into variety that others, It became a way 00:08:48.669 --> 00:08:52.937 of putting a man on a cosmic scale and putting the machine in its proper 00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:57.986 place by surrounding the machine where the cultural development it seems 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:03.256 like now what's going on in the culture is a is a war are very stylized, 00:09:03.289 --> 00:09:08.907 subtle war, but it's a war between 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:11.616 well let's just say institutions in human culture at large, that 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:16.226 institutions are trying to surround culture and trying to subsume all 00:09:16.259 --> 00:09:19.807 dimensions of culture into their structures. So that you have say at 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.907 stanford Research Institute, research going on in terms of psychokinesis, 00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:28.376 psychic powers, uh bending of metal bars and rings by your regular 00:09:28.409 --> 00:09:32.427 research into human potential and and other research into how our mythic 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:36.167 images of man generated and how can these be used by management for more 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:40.957 intelligent management of society. So that uh the education business is a 00:09:40.990 --> 00:09:45.386 convergence of big government, big think tanks, big foundations, big 00:09:45.419 --> 00:09:50.776 corporations creating an absolute enclosing structure. That is that makes 00:09:50.809 --> 00:09:56.606 management of the structure and human culture content within it so that 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:01.016 this is this is what what America, for the most part is all about. But 00:10:01.049 --> 00:10:05.837 going on around that is an attempt to surround those structures to 00:10:05.870 --> 00:10:11.207 surround technology and management with a psychic field of consciousness 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:14.476 with an envelopment of culture that is larger than those structures, so 00:10:14.509 --> 00:10:19.356 that the human renaissance is more important than the than the 00:10:19.389 --> 00:10:22.217 technological reforms from within our various kind of management 00:10:22.250 --> 00:10:25.557 innovations. And so they they're fighting back and forth with one another 00:10:25.590 --> 00:10:28.577 and it's it's a very stylized dance and so nobody is winning. And it's 00:10:28.610 --> 00:10:32.136 like the tension of opposites. You saw it very clearly and dramatically 00:10:32.169 --> 00:10:38.197 expressed as you look um at all the moon shots because they, the Russians 00:10:38.230 --> 00:10:42.396 sent up efficient technological instruments of measurement and surrounded 00:10:42.429 --> 00:10:47.516 the earth with technology and made man into a content within that 00:10:47.549 --> 00:10:51.386 structure. So it's very clear that they were affirming the iron lock that 00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:55.506 industrial materialism had upon their own dialectical materialist 00:10:55.539 --> 00:11:01.087 tradition. And so human culture was displaced. The americans because we 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.896 tend to be a more mythological cowboy oriented people wanting to paste in 00:11:04.929 --> 00:11:09.327 in cowboy boots across the moon, insisted on sending up our astronauts and 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.317 sending up men to place upon the moon. And what happened was a kind of an 00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:17.356 anti Dromi, a movement of from one thing into its exact opposite, where 00:11:17.389 --> 00:11:20.226 the astronauts looked down upon the face of the earth and were transformed. 00:11:20.259 --> 00:11:22.886 So the astronaut on the way to the moon was like saul on the way to 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.476 Damascus and he was knocked off his piece of technology, knocked off his 00:11:26.509 --> 00:11:31.776 horse. And a new kind of wonder. And a rediscovery of wonder changed his 00:11:31.809 --> 00:11:37.037 whole sense of human identity. And what, what came about was a kind of 00:11:37.070 --> 00:11:41.856 mystical affirmation of consciousness being more primary and were a prior 00:11:41.889 --> 00:11:48.006 to technology itself. So man surrounded is Nasa instruments with some well 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.327 , the cultural affirmation of humanity in this case, many of these 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:54.266 astronauts get involved in a kind of religious awakening. Rusty 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:58.437 Schweickart is doing transcendental meditation. Uh Edgar Mitchell quit and 00:11:58.470 --> 00:12:02.427 established an institute for research in this uh consciousness and psychic 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:07.307 phenomenon and others went back to their baptist heritage in became uh 00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:11.807 ministers so that whichever way one wanted to take it, one saw A strange 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.307 and unpredictable transformation of consciousness just a few years ago 00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:20.667 when the movie 2001 came out, we saw how very much there was a situation 00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:24.457 in which the astronauts was seen as robots and the machines were seen as 00:12:24.490 --> 00:12:27.976 human. And the whole movie was about the war between the machine and the 00:12:28.009 --> 00:12:32.817 human as the end of one kind of cultural evolution. And that's what 00:12:32.850 --> 00:12:36.817 everyone would have predicted. But what developed was something more 00:12:36.850 --> 00:12:40.526 utterly surprising. This rediscovery of wonder, this transformation of 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.687 consciousness and this discovery of the costly scale that finally was able 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.986 to put technology into its place. So what one can draw from that is in a 00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:54.947 sense that the only something that large about cosmic really can put our 00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:59.707 technology in place that if we try to humanize our technology with Marxism 00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:03.937 , we're restricting ourselves to what was originally a critique of 00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:08.667 industrial society and therefore has all the limitations of an industrial 00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:13.736 analysis built into it. If we try to humanize technology with the new york 00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:17.146 review of books, we're limiting ourselves to a very new york, city 00:13:17.179 --> 00:13:21.037 oriented, civilized, sophisticated model, which doesn't have the cathartic 00:13:21.070 --> 00:13:25.776 or celestial power to deal with technology on this planetary scale, so 00:13:25.809 --> 00:13:30.667 that it seems that man, only at the extreme end of his religious 00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:35.667 imagination, is able to find sufficient space to deal with technology. If 00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:39.167 you try to deal with technology from inside institutions, you become 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.996 reduced to a functionary of the tool. If you walk outside it and grab it 00:13:43.029 --> 00:13:46.226 from the outside, which is the only way you can handle the tool, then you 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:49.447 turn it into a tool and you are a man using a tool. And when in terms of 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:52.667 evolution, you no longer want to use the tool, You drop it and go on to 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:55.687 something else, which is the secret of our unique generalized adaptability 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:59.807 rather than being specialized for a function. So Mysticism becomes very 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:04.907 critically involved with uh with what human cultural evolution is all 00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:10.327 about in this sense. I think people like Paulo is one example in terms of 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.616 architecture. But I think another example of Stockhausen, there's a superb 00:14:13.649 --> 00:14:17.646 mathematician, electronic engineer and composer who can use all kinds of 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:21.707 technology is not afraid of it in the way that say we were afraid of 00:14:21.740 --> 00:14:25.697 technology in the sixties and wanted to return to nature and and become 00:14:25.730 --> 00:14:29.457 primitive in an absolutely rigorous and remorseless kind of way 00:14:29.490 --> 00:14:33.386 Stockhausen can use all kinds of fantastic technology, but there's no way 00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:37.787 that it's using him. He's just able to surround it with culture and turn 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:42.407 it into an art form and he becomes a kind of Wagner of the electronic era. 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:47.126 So it's very much a I think a battle going on between institutions and 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:53.047 culture and and which is to survive. So that all of these places around 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:56.746 the world, whether it's the planetary city of Oroville or the planetary 00:14:56.779 --> 00:15:01.947 town of Finn town in Scotland or or a kind of center for planetary renewal 00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:07.856 and architecture here at Arcosanti become very critical experiments in the 00:15:07.889 --> 00:15:12.756 in the ability of human beings to uh sense the cultural crisis they had 00:15:12.789 --> 00:15:15.976 and change the development of the cultural vehicle by which they move 00:15:16.009 --> 00:15:19.756 through space time. It's almost as if we have to get some sense of the 00:15:19.789 --> 00:15:23.986 feedback of disasters ahead of us and streamline and get rid of the drag 00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:26.226 and get rid of the things that are slowing down and heading us for 00:15:26.259 --> 00:15:31.327 disaster. And some of the drag we carry with us are our institutions and 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.026 our management structures and the whole attempt to surround consciousness 00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:42.037 and contain it. So, the this becomes the critical issue. And this is why 00:15:42.070 --> 00:15:45.366 uh I think all of us in different ways, are experimenting with different 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:49.907 forms of human institutions. It doesn't 00:15:49.940 --> 00:15:55.006 what 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:58.207 uh huh 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:06.006 try, I think was what is there left to say? Okay, 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:09.807 my name's harvey cox and I'm 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:13.006 I think of myself as a theologian, 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.707 I used to be embarrassed about that because 00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:20.087 people would say, well, you mean you're really a student of comparative 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.136 religion or a sociologist of religion, I would say, yeah, something like 00:16:23.169 --> 00:16:28.596 that. But now I'm not very apologetic about that because for me, a 00:16:28.629 --> 00:16:34.307 theologian is one who is not just studying about, but it's asking his own 00:16:34.340 --> 00:16:38.797 for her own question and is involved in a quest which is personal and 00:16:38.830 --> 00:16:45.307 existential and not please academic or scholarly. So that ST Augustine 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:50.907 starts out his great treatise, professions with a prayer 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.557 has made this form before thyself. O God. And our hearts are restless 00:16:54.590 --> 00:17:01.626 until they find their rest in thee and whatever that the means. I think 00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:05.347 that that's really the best theology. Best theology is When you start by 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:10.566 saying this isn't just something I'm learning about. This is a a personal 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.316 quest which may also turn out to be a civilisational question. I think the 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:19.207 greatest surprise that occurs is when one asks one's own question 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:23.056 passionately and seriously and tries to live as though that question were 00:17:23.089 --> 00:17:26.947 really important, overwhelming question. One does discover that there are 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:33.427 a lot of other resting that same question. So I've been trying and I think 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:38.607 this is something that Bill and I have. I've been trying to see at what 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.296 point did things that I'm thinking about and writing about and researching 00:17:42.329 --> 00:17:47.746 seem to be contradicting the way I've been living and I'm finding a few of 00:17:47.779 --> 00:17:52.066 them and at some points I have the courage to make the necessary changes 00:17:52.099 --> 00:17:56.826 at other points. I don't I still teach at Harvard University this year. I 00:17:56.859 --> 00:17:59.207 do 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:03.707 On my own for one year. Yeah. 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:09.286 When the faculty at heart, Harvard has been pretty good to me so far, I 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:14.197 want to talk about two things that I've been doing. They have, they have 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:18.016 to do a little bit with planetary consciousness and mysticism and 00:18:18.049 --> 00:18:23.597 community. Mhm. Mhm. I'm very impressed by the fact that the points at 00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:27.687 which communities seem to be emerging seems to be emerging in the world is 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:32.197 on the planetary basis, that is on the global basis, and in very highly 00:18:32.230 --> 00:18:37.986 particular rise local situation. What seems to be dropping out is the and 00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:41.927 I hope it will drop out faster and faster as any idea of the sovereign 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:46.536 national state as a viable community for the future of the human race. I 00:18:46.569 --> 00:18:51.597 think we've already learned that this is a, an absurd way of organizing 00:18:51.630 --> 00:18:56.586 the globe and I find that there is in many of the so called advanced 00:18:56.619 --> 00:19:01.627 countries, there is less and less investment of loyalty, energy and 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:05.867 imagination in the sovereign national state. People are really little 00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:10.046 embarrassed now says we can apply places very quickly and we meet people 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:14.486 from other countries. The whole idea of the of the national state seems to 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.197 be fading away, although it seems to be very important for some people in 00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:22.937 the third world country. Now, the question is what replaces that if people 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:27.306 need as I believe they do a sense of community belonging to something 00:19:27.339 --> 00:19:31.796 rather than just being isolated. What community replaces that national 00:19:31.829 --> 00:19:36.937 community, which since the french revolution, uh, and perhaps in the 00:19:36.970 --> 00:19:39.677 period before that, but certainly since the french revolution has been the 00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:42.927 way in which Western people have largely identified themselves as 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.226 Frenchmen or Germans or citizens of the United States. Maybe that we're 00:19:48.259 --> 00:19:51.657 willing a lot of people were willing to fight and bleed and die for that 00:19:51.690 --> 00:19:55.967 flag for that concept. That for that abstraction now that's really fading 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:01.976 away and what is taking its place. Um I think the, the idea of the 00:20:02.009 --> 00:20:10.009 planetary species is one one community that we now begin to feel ourselves 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:14.677 apart of really for the first time. Yeah, this is although this seems 00:20:14.710 --> 00:20:18.836 rather natural to many of us, this is really not a something that our 00:20:18.869 --> 00:20:23.306 forebears and generations far removed, identified with very strongly and 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:28.387 still we don't fight yet have the symbols and the emblems and the holidays 00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:32.766 and the metaphors to think of ourselves in this auditory community, but 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.556 they're beginning to come. I do think the Moonshot seeing the seeing the 00:20:37.589 --> 00:20:43.647 earth is that fragile green disc we all see at the share. Yeah, these 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.357 sentiments are beginning to grow and I hope they will grow further. But I 00:20:47.390 --> 00:20:52.707 think the other thing that's beginning to emerge is the sense of once 00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:57.437 participation in a group of people on a day to day or week to week basis, 00:20:57.470 --> 00:21:02.897 sharing a turf during a locale, A place that one has responsibility for, 00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:07.947 that one loves nourishes, touches that kind of earthy identification. And 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:12.046 I think these are both possible. In fact, I think be there, they're 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:17.486 they're complementary. So I've been working on both of these and uh, in 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:22.026 the following way And this is the feather, three minutes on each as a 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:26.256 person whose major interest has been in religion and in the history of 00:21:26.289 --> 00:21:30.627 development, the great world religion. I think we're at that stage in 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:36.746 human consciousness, in which we simply have to learn now how to put 00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:42.147 ourselves into the religious consciousness of other traditions and other 00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:47.786 cultures by an active imagination or will or playfulness or theatrical 00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:51.476 engagement or whatever it is. I don't think it's safe for us to live on 00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:55.756 the planet much longer thinking of the other religious traditions other 00:21:55.789 --> 00:22:01.637 than our own is somehow remote or esoteric or some way funny. So I'm 00:22:01.670 --> 00:22:07.506 trying to discover ways in my own teaching, not just to teach people about 00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:12.667 in Judaism or pre literate religion or the band too. Confucian ists or 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:18.526 whoever, but somehow to find ways get people to moved temporarily inside 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.066 of the to see how they feel from the inside so that the convergence that 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:26.806 we're all looking for won't be some kind of artificial synthesis in which 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.427 we stick together, we glued innate together segments that looks like kind 00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:35.937 of awkward and wrongly placed, but there really will be a some kind of 00:22:35.970 --> 00:22:40.836 planetary consciousness in which we build up the store of experience of 00:22:40.869 --> 00:22:44.326 the various traditions and where they come from. We aren't afraid to do 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:47.187 that. We're not afraid of losing our own selves, our own identities by 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:51.586 projecting ourselves into that into that kind of experience. I think that 00:22:51.619 --> 00:22:56.226 can be done. I could say a little more about that if your interest. The 00:22:56.259 --> 00:22:58.857 other thing I've been doing, we've been talking a lot about that at 00:22:58.890 --> 00:23:06.506 breakfast the rest of, during part of the day. I'm a member of the 00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:10.506 Community of 12 families 00:23:10.539 --> 00:23:16.796 small, just become regular middle class american. It's all living in north 00:23:16.829 --> 00:23:21.717 Cambridge section of Cambridge massachusetts near Somerville who have 00:23:21.750 --> 00:23:27.806 formed a kind of hey living 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:34.526 community in which we share a residential ambience. We have bought 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:39.246 together an apartment house in a couple other houses into which we are now 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.996 moving most of us are already already in it. We've begun a kind of income 00:23:43.029 --> 00:23:48.826 , a modest income redistribution. We're beginning to buy our groceries 00:23:48.859 --> 00:23:52.786 together. Some of the families are cooking their meals together. So this 00:23:52.819 --> 00:23:57.607 may and this for this may sound at first looked like, I mean we don't like 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:03.816 we like to think of it as a, as a restoration of a sense of community at 00:24:03.849 --> 00:24:09.006 the very local day to day basis of our lives. These are all people who are 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:12.026 involved in other things. Were not all taken up completely by this 00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:16.707 community. We're working in teaching or in politics or in city planning or 00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:23.056 five or six. Right. We have the common place, that's why we call it 00:24:23.089 --> 00:24:27.907 commonplace, inc common place. We have a common place that we come back 00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:33.107 which has a position on this earth which has a turf under it which has 00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:39.266 street surrounded in bricks. Uh huh Have viability place you can touch and 00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:44.306 smell and picks up and work on it. Like this place that we had to buy 00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:48.387 leftover place, fix it up Nonetheless. We're all getting that sense of 00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:56.046 what it means to share a specific location. Uh huh. Yeah, that's we feel 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:03.207 it's important to do this in part because the of the isolation which 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:08.697 dictated for us by the way nuclear family development pursued its course. 00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:13.506 And the way in which uh huh mortgages 00:25:13.539 --> 00:25:20.506 for 30 or 40 years become the kind captor's family. 00:25:20.539 --> 00:25:23.217 Well, that's the way they were. So instead of having all those little 00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:27.957 mortgages, families would have, we now have one great huge mortgage. We 00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:32.197 all tried to help share the things But at least, you know, it doesn't feel 00:25:32.230 --> 00:25:35.516 as bad having one huge mortgage that you're sharing with 11 other families 00:25:35.549 --> 00:25:41.086 doesn't quite get to you the way the monthly single mortgage paid. It's a 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.157 different feeling we're sharing child rearing. We're sharing a lot of 00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:53.190 things including the going to some extent. No, 00:25:55.140 --> 00:26:00.357 this is a group of people in the women that have a kind yeah religious, we 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:06.006 have a religious heritage in most of us feel to some extent alienated 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:11.107 really just basic protestant christians 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:15.407 almost kind of sectarian protestant the week that we all grew up in which 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.357 there's an emphasis on sharing, there's an emphasis on experience, there's 00:26:18.390 --> 00:26:26.390 an emphasis on on lack of pretense and on simplicity, living simply not 00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:34.809 and not engaging in a conspicuous consumption and also in involving as 00:26:34.849 --> 00:26:38.197 many people as possible in the decision making process. So we try to do 00:26:38.230 --> 00:26:41.726 everything that everything in this community that we can like a Quaker 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:48.476 meeting. We take no votes and we try to arrive at a consensus or what we 00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:54.597 call a sense of the meeting. We have not yet ever taken a vote on anything 00:26:54.630 --> 00:26:58.707 that we take the straw votes occasion. People know everybody else is we 00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.806 try not to take. 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:07.407 Now what I'm trying to do is to put together in my own life. My uh huh 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:10.256 feeling that we have to develop that I have to develop a kind of 00:27:10.289 --> 00:27:15.316 pluralistic conscious, I have to be a Voyager and an explorer in forms of 00:27:15.349 --> 00:27:20.536 religious consciousness very different from my own even to the point where 00:27:20.569 --> 00:27:26.556 it threatens my soul and at the same time finding that in my own religious 00:27:26.589 --> 00:27:30.597 tradition if taken seriously. I've been lived out, not just given lip 00:27:30.630 --> 00:27:34.786 service but actually organized into a communal expression that that is 00:27:34.819 --> 00:27:39.157 also a terribly important part of my life. And I don't quite know how both 00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:43.387 of those go together. I don't really quite know how to be a planetary man 00:27:43.420 --> 00:27:49.437 and also a simple sharer in the community in north Cambridge. I'm sitting 00:27:49.470 --> 00:27:53.717 out here today because I came on a jet plane last night. I'm not there 00:27:53.750 --> 00:27:57.137 maybe next week I'll be somewhere else. A lot of people can put that 00:27:57.170 --> 00:28:00.887 together more easily than I can for me that's still attention. It's still 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:08.707 a, I'm still feeling the pain in that kind vision, but I I'm working on 00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:16.207 and hoping that I'll eventually get there. Uh 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:19.207 I think I'll stop 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:24.407 but no peeking. 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:31.806 Mhm Let me shrink. 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:35.967 Mhm I think I'd have to talk. It's a very different point of view stopping 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:39.107 it painted. 00:28:39.140 --> 00:28:47.140 Mhm I've spent for many years trying to look group and family dynamics 00:28:47.140 --> 00:28:55.140 community as it relates to the individual. This no 00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:03.927 Address one way of looking at the 60 we offer when he was, all we need to 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.707 do is to change the other guy. So 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:13.776 make life richer and better. Many of us went about very vigorously trying 00:29:13.809 --> 00:29:18.506 to change the other guy as it works 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:22.707 for any number of reasons, but during that time I spent a good deal of 00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:25.607 time and this is something 00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:31.506 working with people and Canadians and the casualties 00:29:31.539 --> 00:29:39.407 great many based right lack of appreciation 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:43.506 what is involved engage 00:29:43.539 --> 00:29:49.207 stressful activity when you put yourself in a new environment. 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:53.506 It's that is so in various point 00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:59.506 perhaps much more than any of us had anticipate 00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:07.457 after that I was involved no longer working in the ghetto. Mhm. With a lot 00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:14.506 of groups based on the idea that see helping community his own country 00:30:14.539 --> 00:30:20.847 relationship, that community development love into the health confidence 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:26.907 of into this living. 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:33.407 I guess many of us were working in those kinds of was most of them. Yes, 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:35.707 unfortunate, 00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:38.907 very successful 00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.306 after that. I guess there was a big movement to begin to look at myself 00:30:42.339 --> 00:30:47.046 try to change that's not nothing people can always working and trying to 00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:55.079 change himself variety of ways. Drugs, sex and politics rotation 00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:02.407 responsive activity and through developing nuclear 00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:10.440 large communities and squat with some notion one could right kind of 00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:21.140 will change me. Yeah raises lots of issues. We won. So she lost Sure 00:31:23.140 --> 00:31:31.140 meaningfulness model demonstration power social 00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.586 because bill can talk more at that point than I but I don't think models 00:31:38.619 --> 00:31:40.806 with the basics 00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:44.006 in the sense 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.736 the other is that many people engaging these kinds of efforts. New 00:31:48.769 --> 00:31:51.107 community 00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:57.207 perhaps. Uh huh. Walking an act 00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:04.086 some way more dangerous they perceived I don't want to send problem 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:11.607 because I feel very good luck I am involved right 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:19.640 last week I saw 42 year old oh, emergency consultation breakdown. 00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:27.707 Who was in a group marriage. The man who is a very 00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:33.607 Mhm. A lot of thinking and 00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:40.707 but somehow had cut the reference. Yes, kinds of stressors. What 00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:48.740 particularly one issue life. Uh huh. Fell in love 00:32:50.740 --> 00:32:55.107 reached the point where you 00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:59.407 week before that I sort Harold 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:05.407 had been in a film that broke up terrible 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:11.447 because she had been so separated many other community back to back it was 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:14.207 her own begins 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:19.207 and she 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.157 so what we've been trying to do what I've been just sort of trying to look 00:33:23.190 --> 00:33:31.006 at no experimental uh huh family 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:35.016 communal arrangement. Both from the point of view of trying to understand 00:33:35.049 --> 00:33:43.049 them particularly wanted impact 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:51.107 and trying to develop some kind support system for them. Okay. The system 00:33:51.140 --> 00:33:56.506 outside of the existing system. People think do with some of the crisis 00:33:56.539 --> 00:34:03.207 Grazie and Mhm. All right 00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:08.907 example, we're just now beginning that is a challenge. Married to get some 00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:16.940 sense what the impact definitely until Thank you. 00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:26.539 I think the maybe the issue here. Yeah, this is 00:34:27.139 --> 00:34:34.816 one of the, one of the major reason came in Los back got to do with the 00:34:34.849 --> 00:34:37.807 interest, 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:43.106 let's use the term a living laboratory 00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:49.307 in the process here 00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:53.307 about 00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:59.006 right 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:06.407 kinds of things that we talk. Okay, go to the wall before 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:10.006 fine cassandra. 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:16.967 What is the interaction of social take this is thank you with some big 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:25.000 corporations. 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:35.840 Mhm. So why don't we involve you now start talking among ourselves. 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:46.506 Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. 00:35:46.539 --> 00:35:54.006 Okay. Mhm. Canada 00:35:54.039 --> 00:36:02.039 you do wait then something. Nothing. Okay. I experienced abuse. Yeah. We 00:36:03.690 --> 00:36:08.396 are definitely trying to find some way of surviving 00:36:08.429 --> 00:36:12.436 uh in the city. That's a that's a conscious choice we have made not to 00:36:12.469 --> 00:36:18.296 leave the city. And we realized that we think we can't do it as isolated 00:36:18.329 --> 00:36:21.907 nuclear family. We've seen too many tensions, too many disasters. Too many 00:36:21.940 --> 00:36:26.836 cash. We talk about the casualties of new forms. You think of the 00:36:26.869 --> 00:36:29.697 casualties of old forms? 00:36:29.730 --> 00:36:34.717 Okay. Including nuclear families, isolated nuclear I'm not talking about 00:36:34.750 --> 00:36:37.936 group, We don't have a group marriage. What we have is families who are 00:36:37.969 --> 00:36:42.646 living together. Uh Well, some people call it cluster, we like to think 00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:47.106 that is a cluster, we spatially close together, interacting much more than 00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:52.947 families normally do sharing in the financial obligations of each other 00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:55.577 and in the property ownership. I think the property ownership thing is 00:36:55.610 --> 00:36:59.776 very important. There is a certain truth to where your money is, there is 00:36:59.809 --> 00:37:06.447 your heart also. And we all are trying to get away from. We're trying, 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.376 we're trying to rediscover a re fabricate something that might have been 00:37:10.409 --> 00:37:15.706 there in the old extended family. And we're finding it at least I am 00:37:15.739 --> 00:37:18.796 finding it very very rewarding 00:37:18.829 --> 00:37:24.537 positive with very little of kind of disastrous consequences of some 00:37:24.570 --> 00:37:32.570 people predicted. Yeah, everything that's mine. Thank you. 00:37:32.730 --> 00:37:40.730 Mhm react. Mhm. 00:37:42.730 --> 00:37:46.367 Well, first of all we had to organize, get the group together. We had to 00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.566 arrive at some kind of consensus of who we wanted to be. We had to draw up 00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:56.296 some basic kind of agreement. We had to decide on the place that we were 00:37:56.329 --> 00:38:01.907 going to buy. We had to get to cough up the money and we have to decide on 00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.566 what basis we were going to cough up the money whether it was going to be 00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:12.166 equal or are you don't more from those who could afford more. Uh then we 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:17.396 we we spent we just spent a lot of time together talking about the various 00:38:17.429 --> 00:38:21.787 problems we're facing and or we might face 00:38:21.820 --> 00:38:25.657 child rearing sex. We spend a lot of time spent and do spend a lot of time 00:38:25.690 --> 00:38:31.756 talking about that because it's constantly there as a as an issue of money. 00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:35.296 And this is a group of people who share a kind of commitment to what we 00:38:35.329 --> 00:38:40.256 understand Christianity today. Uhh not as a thought system but as a way of 00:38:40.289 --> 00:38:47.697 life in which sharing and simplicity and honesty and candor with each 00:38:47.730 --> 00:38:54.506 other loving each other and resisting the piece. Mm Everybody in the 00:38:54.539 --> 00:38:57.807 movement in this group is very active in one way or another in the peace 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.497 movement has been in the peace movement. So these are very simple kind of 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:05.217 thing. It's not very elaborate. So we do we sing together, we dance 00:39:05.250 --> 00:39:09.177 together, we drink a lot of wine together, not just communion wine. I mean 00:39:09.210 --> 00:39:13.356 large quantities we 00:39:13.389 --> 00:39:17.186 share child rearing. We 00:39:17.219 --> 00:39:22.186 we said we share in the work on the house. The big thing is making it over. 00:39:22.219 --> 00:39:24.287 Uh huh. 00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:28.287 Mhm. 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:34.307 It's not one house. One it's one large house and one nearby one apartment 00:39:34.340 --> 00:39:38.186 houses, one nearby large house. We hope to get another house. That'll be 00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:44.037 certain linked really because of it. No because some of the people in the 00:39:44.070 --> 00:39:49.186 group don't yet live in the property that we own because not adequate for 00:39:49.219 --> 00:39:52.586 the space 00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:57.867 where the member pardon? Scale of that operation seemed to be critical. 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:04.276 Yeah we don't think we have anybody else in this particular group. We were 00:40:04.309 --> 00:40:07.977 willing to help people. We are we are trying now to help other groups. 00:40:08.010 --> 00:40:12.037 They're trying to do the same thing. But we think that 12 families which 00:40:12.070 --> 00:40:17.967 amounts I think now that nine people including all the Children Is optimum 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:23.197 and maybe even a little too big. I think maybe if we had eight or 10. Uh 00:40:23.230 --> 00:40:29.077 huh. Which provides to other things. But I'll set the personality. Yes 00:40:29.110 --> 00:40:37.110 course. Excuse me. These relations brothers for your um going first. Yeah 00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:44.537 same sort. Yeah too late. Yeah. Well we're starting we're starting to work 00:40:44.570 --> 00:40:51.477 that out. One of the ways would be politically. But as we can begin to do 00:40:51.510 --> 00:40:54.967 things in the city of our size politically. If we know each of the other 00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:01.876 is economically buying things together. And also we can enlarge the the 00:41:01.909 --> 00:41:07.236 grocery co op and get things even cheaper. Uhh and the other thing is 00:41:07.269 --> 00:41:14.126 spiritually Cambridge has a lot of religiously based communes and 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:19.537 collectives. Now there's a because the tibetan buddhist place, there's a 00:41:19.570 --> 00:41:25.206 sufi commune, there's a jewish that will have I've been called a barrage 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:28.706 alone and there are five or six others were now beginning to be in touch 00:41:28.739 --> 00:41:33.017 with each other and I found that kind of interreligious communication has 00:41:33.050 --> 00:41:38.876 a reality that the they're just studying comparative religion does. 00:41:38.909 --> 00:41:46.909 Mm hmm. Like to ask you is Uh huh. Have to find the size of your uh 00:41:47.010 --> 00:41:51.146 decided on its personality by deciding that it will only brussels. All 00:41:51.179 --> 00:41:55.387 right. How does the personality of your community deal with personalities 00:41:55.420 --> 00:42:00.907 of other community? Is there a selfishness is there? Uh huh. A desire to 00:42:00.940 --> 00:42:04.807 find the best bargains for your community though you may also be including 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:10.467 other those same size communities in your dealings? Okay, 00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:14.267 I think a certain amount of 00:42:14.300 --> 00:42:16.666 All right, 00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:19.967 What energy 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.977 focuses on your own community? Yeah, I think I think it would be dishonest 00:42:24.010 --> 00:42:31.467 to it. 00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:36.197 Mhm Well, as long as it's a very very small nationalism, I don't think I'm 00:42:36.230 --> 00:42:41.146 not against it. I mean, I think it's okay. As long as your uh as long as 00:42:41.179 --> 00:42:45.227 you maintain that kind of openness to other communities and that kind of 00:42:45.260 --> 00:42:50.767 pluralism and I don't have to include it in your community in order to 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.986 love them or be a part of them, that's been a big mistake of nationalism, 00:42:54.019 --> 00:43:01.599 we had to really, it's the imperial, the hidden imperial side of numbers. 00:43:03.699 --> 00:43:05.699 Then I more numbers like the single personality of small 00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:17.526 fierce pose or have the same potential that the single personality of one 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:21.947 being in dealing with other people. I don't think we've arrived at that 00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:27.066 degree of collective consciousness, yet, I'm not even sure we went to. 00:43:27.099 --> 00:43:32.276 There is a funny kind of beginning evidence of collective consciousness 00:43:32.309 --> 00:43:35.416 that I wouldn't have expected in this group. When you live together and 00:43:35.449 --> 00:43:39.057 talk that much about things, you begin to, there's some kind of 00:43:39.090 --> 00:43:41.816 communication going on that. I don't understand where people really just 00:43:41.849 --> 00:43:48.057 do no what's happening, but it isn't. Uh I don't think of it as a kind of 00:43:48.090 --> 00:43:54.166 personality yet. I don't think I would like that too much. 00:43:54.199 --> 00:44:02.199 I would say that that's in everything and the and that you're going to 00:44:02.530 --> 00:44:06.677 live together for any any period of time, you're going to develop that 00:44:06.710 --> 00:44:11.756 good personality where you like it or not. And at that point, you begin to 00:44:11.789 --> 00:44:16.497 he's a subgroup for develop factions or lose some people and had some, I 00:44:16.530 --> 00:44:22.256 think that's just part of inheriting look like 00:44:22.289 --> 00:44:25.827 as some of the communities develop a group ego that begins to have a lot 00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:29.727 of strength of some of these planetary groups because what a nation state 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:34.157 has going for it is, in a sense, horrible symbols of blood and soil and 00:44:34.190 --> 00:44:38.927 flagged over centuries that really binds consciousness and various of 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:43.186 tradition. And when you step out of that, and you're no longer having the 00:44:43.219 --> 00:44:46.427 bonding of consciousness through tradition and an image of the past. But 00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:50.577 you're basing on an image of the future, then you have to work in much 00:44:50.610 --> 00:44:53.186 smaller kinds of groups because you can't deal with collective 00:44:53.219 --> 00:44:57.296 abstractions like the nation state. So you do get a kind of sense of the 00:44:57.329 --> 00:45:00.736 growth of a. Now, the group ego, it's not necessarily bad because if you 00:45:00.769 --> 00:45:04.546 think of the planetary transformation of mankind as a kind of kinetic 00:45:04.579 --> 00:45:07.727 state of consciousness, that it's like boiling water where these tiny 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.657 little bubbles that creative gas and then dissipate in the mass. They have 00:45:11.690 --> 00:45:14.967 no force. And then a few of them gain, gather together and create larger 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.887 bubbles moving up and then boom at a critical state. The whole thing takes 00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:22.197 off and evaporates. And so that a lot of this is happening to mankind as a 00:45:22.230 --> 00:45:26.267 whole. And there's a kind of inertial, you know, solid mass of the where 00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:30.367 we've been. And now there is this kind of movement and you sense in many 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.046 of these places the creation not of a collective unconscious in the way of 00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:39.017 ST George's hospital young, but a collective consciousness in which the 00:45:39.050 --> 00:45:43.577 individual mind is figure against the ground of being now the usual way 00:45:43.610 --> 00:45:46.206 and that this has been discussed as in terms of science fiction, prepare 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:50.006 to shut down or paolo talks about it in terms of the organism of 1000 00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:54.606 mines in the city of image of man. The first attempt to create this in the 00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.566 20th century was the elevation of the collective unconsciousness into 00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.546 culture, which you saw in things like the irish revolution, national 00:46:00.579 --> 00:46:04.586 socialism, where archetypes flood the streets and people go out to die in 00:46:04.619 --> 00:46:08.057 the streets as if they were living in a drama novel, everything becomes 00:46:08.090 --> 00:46:12.276 possessed with kind of a demonic energy. And the second way was the 00:46:12.309 --> 00:46:15.097 collectivization of consciousness in the state of the stalinist and Maoist 00:46:15.130 --> 00:46:18.756 arrived, which in terms of numbers, is the simplest way to do it. The 00:46:18.789 --> 00:46:22.006 difficulty with that is you have to step down the energies of the ego and 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:25.217 you do it through ego reduction rather than ego transfiguration. And I 00:46:25.250 --> 00:46:28.097 think in this planetary transformation, which is more like romanticism 00:46:28.130 --> 00:46:32.267 with the renaissance, there is an attempt to find the universal by going 00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:34.896 through the eye of the needle by going through the unique consciousness of 00:46:34.929 --> 00:46:38.546 itself. And as this goes on, it has to go through in small groups, you 00:46:38.579 --> 00:46:41.517 can't a lot of people are great at loving mankind, but they have trouble 00:46:41.550 --> 00:46:44.787 with men just as a lot of the irish revolutionaries wanted to die for 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:48.936 Ireland the damn few of the ira could live in our gunning people down in 00:46:48.969 --> 00:46:52.586 the streets so that the trouble with the whole liberal movement was that 00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:55.887 we had this kind of holistic frame of mind when everything had to solve 00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:00.086 everything all at once. It had to be take care of housing and development 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:04.387 in one fell swoop so that I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong 00:47:04.420 --> 00:47:08.847 with loving, you know, men and women as a start rather than trying to get 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:13.177 involved in universal abstraction, there probably will be the growth of 00:47:13.210 --> 00:47:17.776 intense egos in these communities. Where if people are into a behavioral 00:47:17.809 --> 00:47:21.486 psychology number as the group bonding, then they'll feel strong effective 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:26.376 attachment to that. If they're into, you know, talking with Davis and 00:47:26.409 --> 00:47:30.747 leprechauns and Finn torn and they begin to have become famous around the 00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:34.807 world for growing plants through conversation. Uh, then Finn torn begins 00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:39.347 to take on a very strong group ego that we are a planetary new age time. 00:47:39.380 --> 00:47:44.947 Other people are old age cities or old age nations and uh that's part of 00:47:44.980 --> 00:47:48.336 the puberty of the planet. You've got to go through adolescence, get an 00:47:48.369 --> 00:47:51.947 identity before. In terms of buddhism, then you can lose your I. D. If you 00:47:51.980 --> 00:47:55.106 go into the transformation of consciousness without a strong healthy ego, 00:47:55.139 --> 00:48:01.137 you become psychotic selling is the increase in the temperature of this 00:48:01.170 --> 00:48:07.537 increasing keep up with the pattern liquid 00:48:07.570 --> 00:48:11.776 they're having following long time. Yeah, you have to look at times not to 00:48:11.809 --> 00:48:14.236 scale 00:48:14.269 --> 00:48:20.387 right? Basic camp, right? I think it's going higher in this transformation 00:48:20.420 --> 00:48:23.447 of state. And then I think and here I'd go along with marks when he looked 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.606 at the levelers and said that these, you know, 17th century early 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.077 movements and other things, packages and things that Harvey study. We're 00:48:30.110 --> 00:48:34.037 early pre figuring, but it's a very lonely thing to be a bubble. Three 00:48:34.070 --> 00:48:38.206 centuries in advance of your time. But now we see there are more 00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:40.856 scientists in existence now in the 20th century that have existed in the 00:48:40.889 --> 00:48:43.907 whole history of mankind. We can say the same thing. Statistics. There is 00:48:43.940 --> 00:48:47.206 a heating up of consciousness. There is more in science and iron energy 00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:52.166 and mysticism than before. In the solitary ST john of the cross or Teresa 00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.106 available. This is very different kind of situation. So I think we see an 00:48:57.139 --> 00:49:01.936 incredible feedback of consciousness back on nature, which generally 00:49:01.969 --> 00:49:04.146 because the way the human mind works, we see it negatively, we're 00:49:04.179 --> 00:49:07.097 destroying the planet. We see the feedback of consciousness in the air. It 00:49:07.130 --> 00:49:11.046 is called Phil but I think inversely by related symmetry, there's a 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:14.986 feedback of consciousness on nature, which is what culture is uh that is 00:49:15.019 --> 00:49:18.477 positive and dynamic and that before we can see it on the body of the 00:49:18.510 --> 00:49:21.467 planet, we have to discover it in the body of ourselves and rediscover the 00:49:21.500 --> 00:49:24.537 mind body interface in the way that swami Rama did and the manager 00:49:24.570 --> 00:49:27.686 institute when he stopped his five per 17 seconds under impeccable 00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:32.077 scientific observation. So what's going on contained in this planetary 00:49:32.110 --> 00:49:35.796 transformation is a redefinition of nature, a redefinition of mine and the 00:49:35.829 --> 00:49:38.907 redefinition of consciousness and the whole mind nature consciousness 00:49:38.940 --> 00:49:42.546 continuum. And that that's something that's a bit different than just 00:49:42.579 --> 00:49:47.227 Romanticism mission. So, I think something is happening. You know of a 00:49:47.260 --> 00:49:51.336 very interesting. 00:49:51.369 --> 00:49:53.796 It may fail though there's no guarantee that just because it's happening, 00:49:53.829 --> 00:49:59.146 we're going to make. Mhm. When you mentioned these terms in this 00:49:59.179 --> 00:50:05.296 discussion, you're speaking particular framework. People Knowledge If you 00:50:05.329 --> 00:50:07.927 love these two. 00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:12.387 But it seems to me, I came from 10 years of being in new york city and 00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:18.526 watching people on the subways and busses. I saw them create Vietnam War 00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:26.396 1st evaluation, 2nd evaluation. They all look the same. Hold it. So 00:50:26.429 --> 00:50:32.927 it seems to me that you talk of consciousness awareness 00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:35.727 and a planetary 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:40.006 people of consciousness, which I agree. I think that we are going in that 00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:44.427 direction. The question would be, 00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:46.727 what proportion 00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:51.637 planetary populations is involved in this? The numbers don't matter 00:50:51.670 --> 00:50:55.296 because the individual consciousness are like enzymes and enzymes can have 00:50:55.329 --> 00:50:59.387 an enormous catalytic change over an organism where the organism is 100 00:50:59.420 --> 00:51:04.566 full larger than the size of the Even in times having percentage. Can I 00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:07.046 ask you 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:11.816 alternate questions, what would be your comment? The current upheaval in 00:51:11.849 --> 00:51:17.787 washing Nixon in relation to Well, they're like you guys three questions 00:51:17.820 --> 00:51:21.916 going on. So let me take them all at once. 00:51:21.949 --> 00:51:26.017 One numbers don't matter. That's the numbers game where units into a mass 00:51:26.050 --> 00:51:31.217 uh, the, you know, the illustration I've used before in terms of blake in 00:51:31.250 --> 00:51:34.227 the industrial revolution is if you, you know, if you were a martian and 00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:38.577 you can't London came in around 17 90 he said, hey man, there's an 00:51:38.610 --> 00:51:41.887 industrial revolution going on here and the people would take it serious 00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:44.686 man. You know, it's agricultural civilization all over and you point to 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:49.197 one brick kiln and one factory and you say, so what's one factory get 00:51:49.230 --> 00:51:52.356 serious, you know, this, look what's going on. But blake would not, he 00:51:52.389 --> 00:51:55.747 would take that one brick kiln in one factory and he would extrapolate and 00:51:55.780 --> 00:51:59.276 he would see the industrial transformation so that events macro scale 00:51:59.309 --> 00:52:02.697 events like cultural transformations are invisible for the most part 00:52:02.730 --> 00:52:06.097 because most of the people are looking at the presidency in the past. But 00:52:06.130 --> 00:52:10.247 the, the other guy Is looking at the president and seeing by extrapolation 00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:13.287 what it means, understands the present and in order to understand the 00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.497 present, he describes an image of the future. But those images of future 00:52:16.530 --> 00:52:19.977 are right here and now. So I don't think numbers matter, 600 freaks ran 00:52:20.010 --> 00:52:22.396 out and took over a few buildings and created the Irish free state. They 00:52:22.429 --> 00:52:26.887 were, you know, they were all crazy. So that the uh the numbers aren't 00:52:26.920 --> 00:52:30.796 very important in human human transformation. So the other thing is about 00:52:30.829 --> 00:52:34.497 the people on the subway. If you were looking at the used online phrase is 00:52:34.530 --> 00:52:37.477 if you were looking at them, you saw no change if you were seeing them and 00:52:37.510 --> 00:52:41.916 you saw there or as you might be surprised at the different continues. Uh 00:52:41.949 --> 00:52:47.916 No. Uh 00:52:47.949 --> 00:52:52.887 you gotta go back. Thanks 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:57.537 to Watergate. I think the very energy of the cultural transformation is 00:52:57.570 --> 00:53:00.706 hitting the crystal lattice of american government and knocking out a lot 00:53:00.739 --> 00:53:03.827 of the impediments and the noise and creating a lot of trouble with the 00:53:03.860 --> 00:53:07.436 invisible see the gift, the C. I. A. Government we've had so that our 00:53:07.469 --> 00:53:10.947 whole consciousness of the political process, our noble leader who is 00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:14.947 virtuous and true and lives in a white leader House are all coming apart. 00:53:14.980 --> 00:53:20.626 And that there's a new possibility for regaining the electoral process, 00:53:20.659 --> 00:53:23.677 regaining new power for Congress, which is another form of localization. 00:53:23.710 --> 00:53:27.287 If you had cable television, you can re achieve the new England Town 00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:30.376 meeting on an electronic level. Get rid of the great big bureaucracies of 00:53:30.409 --> 00:53:34.146 the Democratic Party of the Republican Party and change the particular 00:53:34.179 --> 00:53:38.847 effective relationship of the individual citizen and the nation state. And 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:42.686 I think that's a new, unique universal relationship that is very positive. 00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:46.986 And so that if this process can go on and Nixon can be forced to resign, 00:53:47.019 --> 00:53:50.157 which I think is even better than trying to impeach him, then we stand a 00:53:50.190 --> 00:53:54.657 chance of really having something to celebrate in 17 1976. If americans 00:53:54.690 --> 00:53:58.626 still get lost in this category, mistake, that president means good, bad 00:53:58.659 --> 00:54:01.657 president is a contradiction in terms like stop go, we can't do anything 00:54:01.690 --> 00:54:05.117 about, we have to let him stay in, then that's a disaster. And we end up 00:54:05.150 --> 00:54:07.767 with directorships and Dictatorships and we're, you know, like the greek 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:11.106 colonels. So I think this this process is very positive. It's a good 00:54:11.139 --> 00:54:18.706 nonsense, just getting rid of a lot of ships. Oh God, Okay. 00:54:18.739 --> 00:54:24.706 Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. 00:54:24.739 --> 00:54:27.247 I don't think nation States would go away. They'll just be surrounded by 00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:29.617 larger structures. It's quite possible for the world state between the 00:54:29.650 --> 00:54:33.367 most incredibly authoritarian tyrannical instrument. We could come up with 00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:37.006 , it could be a convergence of multinational corporations and sort of 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:42.626 behavioral science, uh, that would have effective means of control and try 00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:46.026 to buy off the individual by giving him lots of apparent civil liberties 00:54:46.059 --> 00:54:49.146 in the form of the sexual liberation. You know, I'm here. I'm thinking of 00:54:49.179 --> 00:54:53.396 the sense that uhh that a lot of things in sexual liberation look to be 00:54:53.429 --> 00:54:57.907 liberating. Can but can in some sense be binding. Uh so in the way the 00:54:57.940 --> 00:55:01.367 market is a talks about it, the Brothers gone, Cora said in the 19th 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:03.756 century about the role of pornography in the state, that when tames the 00:55:03.789 --> 00:55:07.637 people, the way when tames lions by masturbation. So I think you could get 00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:12.086 a kind of big new york Tokyo ization planet run by these large 00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.077 multinational corporations and achieve world government, that it would be 00:55:15.110 --> 00:55:20.876 a disaster. So it's a question of uh, surrounding the nation states and 00:55:20.909 --> 00:55:23.566 turning them into contents in a larger structure. I don't think there's 00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:27.956 anything large enough except the cosmic consciousness of a planetary 00:55:27.989 --> 00:55:31.896 mysticism that can handle that. I think anything else is piecemeal 00:55:31.929 --> 00:55:36.856 technology management and people are gonna be managed in. So it's, I think 00:55:36.889 --> 00:55:40.617 some of the dangers that come from abstract forms of redesigning human 00:55:40.650 --> 00:55:43.467 culture and saying, all right, we're going to get rid of the family 00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:45.617 information, we're going to get rid of this, we're gonna get rid of that 00:55:45.650 --> 00:55:49.506 and we'll all be free is that they're dealing in terms of a fantasy 00:55:49.539 --> 00:55:52.807 landscape of abstractions that have no roots in the instincts of the heart 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:58.267 or human emotion, so that some of these abstract communities that have 00:55:58.300 --> 00:56:01.816 that are secular and don't have the universal catatonic and celestial 00:56:01.849 --> 00:56:05.537 force of religion and mysticism are doomed to failure and last only, you 00:56:05.570 --> 00:56:08.267 know, for six weeks until they blow up. So I think it's gonna take 00:56:08.300 --> 00:56:12.827 something with much more energy uh, and, and mythological power, 00:56:12.860 --> 00:56:17.836 archetypal power to really sense uh, what the implications of this 00:56:17.869 --> 00:56:21.137 cultural transformation are all about. But I don't intend, I don't expect 00:56:21.170 --> 00:56:25.686 nation states will disappear. They will, they'll just be surrounded by 00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:33.217 something, something else position, This is the power of genetic factors 00:56:33.250 --> 00:56:36.697 that talk about 00:56:36.730 --> 00:56:41.347 It's spiritual, but I think in the period of civilization, which is pretty 00:56:41.380 --> 00:56:47.367 much from 3000 to say, 2000 uh the spiritual imagination of man was, was 00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:53.077 contained in uh universal religions, churches and things in some ways. If 00:56:53.110 --> 00:56:56.537 we take the century of religious genius, the sixth century Bc of Zorro, 00:56:56.570 --> 00:57:00.887 Astro and Confucius and Marseille and Pythagoras. Uh we can see that what 00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:03.677 Mumford and yes, we talked about that the internal contradictions of 00:57:03.710 --> 00:57:06.586 civilization became so extreme that they had to be mediated by some other 00:57:06.619 --> 00:57:09.927 force of course, with the universal religions like buddhism, they were, in 00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:12.986 a sense, the rehearsal for this planetary integration going on. This is 00:57:13.019 --> 00:57:18.526 why all the religions are coming up fast and furious, but I think now, 00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:22.416 given the intense energy that's in culture and not in the containers, you 00:57:22.449 --> 00:57:27.057 can have the spiritual imagination of mankind express yourself in forms 00:57:27.090 --> 00:57:31.006 other than just another planetary religion led by another voodoo or 00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:35.126 another soft. And I think in the thing that's coming now, I think it's 00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:39.227 gonna be more anarchists and the man will lead religions or churches as 00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:42.287 much as a fish needs rubber Swinton's, but I'm sure harvey and I will 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:50.320 probably disagree on you. Got it. Yes. What sort of matter what sort of 00:57:50.329 --> 00:57:58.329 Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Thank God. Mhm. Talking about, Right, four. Mhm. Hello. 00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:07.307 Well, I think it's more important in the sense to go through some of these 00:58:07.340 --> 00:58:11.146 , these techniques, which leads you to certain levels of consciousness 00:58:11.179 --> 00:58:14.557 where the word's gonna become so important, whether 11 tries to call it 00:58:14.590 --> 00:58:18.577 the unnamed or the ineffable or the ineluctable modality of the visible or 00:58:18.610 --> 00:58:23.276 the sartorius ahmadi or enlightenment or the resurrection of the body or 00:58:23.309 --> 00:58:27.197 the Second Coming uh are all like hopes of a single wheel. And the 00:58:27.230 --> 00:58:31.956 important point is to get to the center uh for the experience and not to 00:58:31.989 --> 00:58:36.896 argue theologically about the thinking process, it's uh the center, I 00:58:36.929 --> 00:58:42.296 think this is the difference between the mystic and theologian is uh 00:58:42.329 --> 00:58:47.486 uh huh, 00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:53.986 I didn't say it. How do we know if it's unkind? Uh why? I think mysticism 00:58:54.019 --> 00:58:59.146 is more important in a sense, is um it's the affirmation of the 00:58:59.179 --> 00:59:04.477 exponential quality of it in theology is possible too not to know what 00:59:04.510 --> 00:59:09.606 you're talking about. And in mysticism, one moves into the into the 00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:15.776 silence. And so I think when one tries to make the silence spoken, I 00:59:15.809 --> 00:59:18.626 paraphrase Wittgenstein to say about that, which we cannot speak. We 00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:21.927 should be silent, but we can sing it so that about that, which we cannot 00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:24.686 think we should sing about that, which we cannot speak, we should sing. 00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:28.376 And there we get things like the B minor mass consisting capital and stuff 00:59:28.409 --> 00:59:33.597 like this, so that I think one can see images of planetary mythology being 00:59:33.630 --> 00:59:36.537 created by artists like Stockhausen or Doris lessing or people of this 00:59:36.570 --> 00:59:43.206 sort or even in the rock culture of the six. But but I don't think 00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.796 necessarily is going to have to have a cochlear and articulated a theology 00:59:45.829 --> 00:59:51.686 , I would hope not. Uh huh. 00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:54.887 Talk about corporation. 00:59:54.920 --> 01:00:01.977 Yeah. Always. Mhm. Yeah. Right 01:00:02.010 --> 01:00:04.276 model 01:00:04.309 --> 01:00:10.497 Incorporated only together into one Super Corporation running world, very 01:00:10.530 --> 01:00:13.327 real threat to me. And I was wondering how, you know, whether you really 01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:17.706 think that the possibility or whether there's any, I think it's it's best 01:00:17.739 --> 01:00:21.566 to avoid it through changing the nature of culture, if they're operating 01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:26.467 on an industrial model of reality and are trying to distribute that 01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:29.046 industrial model of reality through the universities which have a 01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:33.677 particular definition that of human nature is rational. And what is 01:00:33.710 --> 01:00:37.686 important is your I. Q. That if you're gifted students are a child in the 01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:40.497 state of California, that is an asset of the state and therefore you're 01:00:40.530 --> 01:00:42.967 entitled to state funds. You can go to state universities to learn how to 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:46.566 be a state educated person because you're a commodity that is valuable for 01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:50.327 the increase of the gross national product, then uh the important thing to 01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:53.896 do is not to get involved in that structure, but to redefine the nature of 01:00:53.929 --> 01:00:56.876 an educated man, to place it on something other than rationality in the I 01:00:56.909 --> 01:01:01.577 . Q. And to try and surround their management techniques with a kind of 01:01:01.610 --> 01:01:04.927 psychic field that has a totally different image of what nature mind 01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:10.577 reality and culture and conscious uh in this sense, you don't use their 01:01:10.610 --> 01:01:15.876 structures at all. And this gives you other uh flexibility. But there are 01:01:15.909 --> 01:01:19.086 lots sometimes, also the institutions don't understand themselves. A lot 01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:22.606 of multinational corporations do not understand what multinational 01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:26.727 business is all about. They're still thinking in terms of Of uh profits 01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:29.407 and they haven't developed an economics, what are you going to do it 01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:34.267 because of multinational American enterprise? You own 50% of Europe. That 01:01:34.300 --> 01:01:38.896 puts a drain dollars. The drain on the dollar hurts the economy in America 01:01:38.929 --> 01:01:41.376 and you find yourself in a double bind where you can't do a planet's 01:01:41.409 --> 01:01:45.006 business on the nation's currency, so nobody really has got anything 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:48.006 profit. The contradiction raises up to the point of collapse. And the 01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:50.586 multinational corporation people end up doing all the wrong things because 01:01:50.619 --> 01:01:54.307 they simply do not understand what they are doing. Yeah, that's what I 01:01:54.340 --> 01:01:57.776 think. So that there are no economics to explain what's going on. 01:01:57.809 --> 01:02:05.809 Depression, inflation all at the same. 01:02:13.210 --> 01:02:21.210 Can Mhm. If I am 01:02:23.210 --> 01:02:26.329 well, I think the noexperience