WEBVTT 00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:05.540 and not only is that we need activities in interiors, production of 00:00:10.619 --> 00:00:13.806 furnitures and so on and that's something that we might try to get into 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:18.157 and then after we have served the town we would have this industry that 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:25.087 could go for other places. Mhm I think those who said they could be a very 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.927 good source of income and then we have the visitors and in the media, I 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:33.516 would like to develop and the media is the idea that we tend to again to 00:00:33.549 --> 00:00:37.347 segregate the information from the source of information and from the 00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:42.277 people that received information and so an attempt to take the media's and 00:00:42.310 --> 00:00:47.646 reintegrate them in in the community and in the land on climate and so on 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.737 and we're beginning to do that right now with the festivals and so on. So 00:00:50.770 --> 00:00:58.770 that could be a very important source of revenues. Economic. 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:06.736 Oh, the first little green house that would be a center in India for a 00:01:06.769 --> 00:01:13.607 public park that we have some kind of contact going on with. 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:21.640 Yeah, no, we would do only and supervision. 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:25.307 Mhm 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:29.497 probably reinforced concrete. Yes. Well, we would have to consider steel 00:01:29.530 --> 00:01:37.530 also that and the city cost 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:43.307 you said assistance. 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:49.837 Oh, I don't foresee, I don't know what kind of system, frankly. No, we 00:01:49.870 --> 00:01:54.736 don't know. We don't know because number one is going to be a few years in 00:01:54.769 --> 00:02:00.956 the future. Number two. Mhm things there are things that you can 00:02:00.989 --> 00:02:04.456 anticipate and summon structure does think that possibly to anticipate too 00:02:04.489 --> 00:02:08.737 much and structure too much might be dangerous. So you might, you might, 00:02:08.770 --> 00:02:12.517 you might fall a certain notion and then find out that the notion was 00:02:12.550 --> 00:02:18.346 wrong. And one of those fields is politics, afraid. So there are many 00:02:18.379 --> 00:02:22.307 examples of different kinds of approaches and we would try to look into 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:26.506 them and see 00:02:26.539 --> 00:02:32.286 well I do. There are there are in the they have political implications. 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.106 But there are mainly, 00:02:35.139 --> 00:02:42.827 let's say like notions, one is that the discouraging or not discouraging 00:02:42.860 --> 00:02:48.737 the unimportance of ownership that we would like to to suggest that 00:02:48.770 --> 00:02:52.577 doesn't mean eliminate ownership. That it means that perhaps ownership can 00:02:52.610 --> 00:02:58.307 be much less uh important in our own lives. The early is what I call 00:02:58.340 --> 00:03:02.686 relative poverty, which is now a necessity since we are poor anyhow. And 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:07.207 that is an attempt to remain under the 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.747 minimum wage salary. So all of us, it's under that kind of an umbrella. 00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:19.780 Now 2 50. Uh huh Germany's it's the use in a sense of yeah, lentils Or 00:03:24.789 --> 00:03:28.547 pools of things. So instead of having 10,000 objects, you may have only 00:03:28.580 --> 00:03:36.147 1000 objects in, you know, the categories of things from domestic to 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:40.106 industrial, that we might be involved. 00:03:40.139 --> 00:03:44.006 Mm 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.927 You know, water is going to be one of the critical elements. So we we have 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.207 to try to make use of it more than once. 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:57.006 So domestic water would be recycled. Probably, 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:05.039 maybe you want to go on with that. Yeah, 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:13.240 our people. 00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:22.906 Uh, but the difference is that I don't believe in Utopia. 00:04:22.939 --> 00:04:27.837 Let me try to explain what I mean. I do not believe that perfection is 00:04:27.870 --> 00:04:31.717 around the corner now I believe that I can come up with anything perfect 00:04:31.750 --> 00:04:37.577 or any born anyone that works there. So we were we believe that an effort 00:04:37.610 --> 00:04:44.486 has to be put in in the direction of a more coherent situation of us, 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:51.976 whether we ourselves and with the the ecological system. But with it very 00:04:52.009 --> 00:04:55.676 clear knowledge that's going to be a very long process. And by long I 00:04:55.709 --> 00:04:59.786 don't mean few generations. I mean thousands of generations. You know that 00:04:59.819 --> 00:05:03.976 the diagram I'm taking a diagram very seriously. So that's why Utopia is a 00:05:04.009 --> 00:05:09.426 fantasy that I'm not instantly at all. Uh huh. That doesn't mean that 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:13.986 we're going to succeed because we are not utopian. But it means that we do 00:05:14.019 --> 00:05:18.796 not believe in paradise on this earth, which is going to be ready for our 00:05:18.829 --> 00:05:24.746 Children's paradises. Somebody that was in the past and basically it was 00:05:24.779 --> 00:05:29.697 an imagination that we have in the past. But we have to build is something 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:35.527 quite different. But that's not. It's involved in the idea of of a 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:39.856 theological structure which is quite different from the from the catholic 00:05:39.889 --> 00:05:47.889 or protestant structure. 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:58.567 Well, that depends so much on what kind of membrane an envelope you put 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:03.306 around the body. So if your house is well insulated, that's what that's 00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:11.339 what you're after. 00:06:23.540 --> 00:06:26.226 Okay, well that that's what I mean. You a certain amount of energy 00:06:26.259 --> 00:06:32.306 produced by your body. So you keep it in or you let it out. So if you rent 00:06:32.339 --> 00:06:35.036 it out, you lose it. If you keep it in, you're going to be able to make 00:06:35.069 --> 00:06:37.887 use of it. So you can recycle it one way or the other. But basically is 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:44.877 that uh you insulate your hitters that is policed by you within the the 00:06:44.910 --> 00:06:52.910 environment that you're using an interior environment. 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.906 No. 00:06:59.939 --> 00:07:07.846 Mhm. Uh uh No. Self sufficiency is in many ways. It's an illusion. It's a 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:14.527 dangerous illusion. What you like to to project is that kind of reliance? 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:19.827 Self reliance. Which tells you that you can barter with your neighbors, 00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:25.736 whatever you cannot do, which is what happens naturally. So uh if self 00:07:25.769 --> 00:07:29.736 sufficient means self reliance, it's fine. If suspicion means that you 00:07:29.769 --> 00:07:33.507 seal off the community and the community can be anywhere because it 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:36.746 doesn't have to depend on anything else, then I would say no. That's an 00:07:36.779 --> 00:07:40.806 illusion. It's Utopia again. 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:47.296 So you specialize in a few or many activities and those activities are 00:07:47.329 --> 00:07:52.217 giving you the means to go out and buy or barter other things that you are 00:07:52.250 --> 00:07:54.406 not doing. 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:59.046 And since every one of us needs thousands of items, we know very well that 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:07.079 nobody can do all those items well within its own daily activities 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:16.906 mm 00:08:16.939 --> 00:08:22.106 you are Yeah. Right. 00:08:22.139 --> 00:08:24.207 Yeah. 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.507 Yeah. 00:08:28.540 --> 00:08:31.007 Yeah. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.547 Yeah. You you have to make a distinction there, which is the difference 00:08:35.580 --> 00:08:41.126 between a prototype and a production, the normal production cycle. We are 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.346 we're working with the prototype and as such, many of those objections or 00:08:45.379 --> 00:08:51.907 those things are irrelevant. It you know, you could imagine of 00:08:51.940 --> 00:08:54.907 a dictator 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:58.476 from Iran coming in and say I'm going to finance finance the prototype. 00:08:58.509 --> 00:09:02.366 And you have to decide if you want to accept this kind of financing. And 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:05.866 one reason to accept could be that you're trying to develop a prototype 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:12.256 that then could be could be made available for the market. And that goes 00:09:12.289 --> 00:09:17.266 for other things like why there and not here? Why three instead of 5000 or 00:09:17.299 --> 00:09:22.996 20,000? Uh, why go about it, building it this way and so on. Those are 00:09:23.029 --> 00:09:26.776 irrelevant questions when you see the process for what it is. Which is 00:09:26.809 --> 00:09:32.547 trying to trigger a much larger process. So what we're doing is model of 00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:39.746 overeating or of a catalyst idea then produce a marketable object at this 00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:46.557 point. The market comes later and you might to invest in uh, in the market 00:09:46.590 --> 00:09:54.006 planning as much as you invest in the prototype. Mm And maybe more. 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.506 Huh? 00:09:56.539 --> 00:10:04.539 Yeah. 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:10.246 Well, the we tend to believe this is very new. But it's very old. No, a 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:14.287 few thousands of years old. This idea that people are clustering 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:18.957 associating and working together. That's a typical characteristic of the 00:10:18.990 --> 00:10:23.766 human species. So in a way Los Angeles is the strange one not what we are 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:27.667 trying to do and as such. it is a strange one because it's it's very young 00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:32.827 , only two or three generations and it's a very tiny part of the human 00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:38.707 family. So it's an exception and it's a very limited exception of that. 00:10:38.740 --> 00:10:42.026 What we're trying to do is to carry on the process as it's been 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:46.577 established and developed for thousands of years and passes the urban 00:10:46.610 --> 00:10:50.006 condition. 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.087 And that doesn't mean that we have all the answers. We have hardly any 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:57.986 answer. But that's where we have to work at since we have so many, so few 00:10:58.019 --> 00:11:01.807 answers were to work at it even other. 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:08.356 But but basically it comes back to the to this notion of what life is it 00:11:08.389 --> 00:11:14.807 scattering is isolation is um 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:20.136 remoteness is all those things. It's perhaps the opposite. It's gathering 00:11:20.169 --> 00:11:25.856 it's complex. Ification is interdependent and so on. And once we make up 00:11:25.889 --> 00:11:30.136 your mind we should be coherent with it. But we cannot say its complexity 00:11:30.169 --> 00:11:34.016 and then say in Los Angeles is the consequence if it is complexity, Los 00:11:34.049 --> 00:11:39.807 Angeles is a degeneration of the process. 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.396 Well, new york but in new york somehow it has the characteristic of the 00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:49.307 gigantic of the wasteful on the 00:11:49.340 --> 00:11:53.087 the thing that cannot work because the technologies are not appropriate 00:11:53.120 --> 00:12:00.106 and so on. 00:12:00.139 --> 00:12:08.139 Yeah. 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:17.240 Oh. Mhm. 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.606 I haven't seen a primal arcosanti is that we don't have what we are 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:26.376 seeking. So it's difficult to demonstrate what what it would be once you 00:12:26.409 --> 00:12:30.236 don't have it. So that's the main problem, we are there because we believe 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:34.876 that the the function of the city is a fundamental function, but we are in 00:12:34.909 --> 00:12:37.707 the wilderness. 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:40.996 That's why you really have to, you have to be future oriented in order to 00:12:41.029 --> 00:12:45.276 be there. Otherwise you don't make any sense. It's a sacrificial condition 00:12:45.309 --> 00:12:50.807 and that demands demands quite a bit. It's a cave to be there six weeks or 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:55.197 six months And enjoyed experience. Another thing is to be there six or 7 00:12:55.230 --> 00:12:59.996 or 10 years knowing that you would like to go much faster and you cannot 00:13:00.029 --> 00:13:08.029 do it and knowing that all the things you believe in are not existent. 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:19.240 Yeah, 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:29.077 Well, but you if you're in a corner of 50th and uh and I don't know 00:13:29.110 --> 00:13:35.766 husband. I'm just saying the same thing. It's just that the one you see it 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:38.246 because it's up to you don't, you don't see because it's done. But I mean 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:44.037 that's the, that's the logical. That is it's minimal. So but the thing is 00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:48.057 to see what you might gain by having that, which is not really that it's a 00:13:48.090 --> 00:13:55.096 , it's a volume as against having that, then you begin to have options and 00:13:55.129 --> 00:13:58.967 you might want to decide. But the idea that you are free because you live 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:05.707 in phoenix. It's totally, it's a nonsense. It's absolute nonsense. We are 00:14:05.740 --> 00:14:10.726 caused by the phoenix grid. And if you were older or old and where you are 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:15.246 poor, you will find out that phoenix kills you. So there is no freedom 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:20.506 there. I mean, there's a very limited freedom. So we try to find out bring 00:14:20.539 --> 00:14:26.657 in audio problems, environment pollution, resources, energy segregation, 00:14:26.690 --> 00:14:31.096 and so on and see where the answer might be focusing and they're not 00:14:31.129 --> 00:14:37.407 focusing on phoenix. They're focusing on something very different. 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.957 The things that were very willing to accept any kind of coercion which 00:14:41.990 --> 00:14:46.567 comes with you. So, I'm born in that kind of corrosion. So I accepted we 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:51.217 had a not willing to investigate the possibility of having limitations of 00:14:51.250 --> 00:14:56.226 freedom that my might produce greater freedom in totality because they 00:14:56.259 --> 00:14:59.807 have novelty or because we're not used to them or because they need they 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.506 need work experimentation 00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:08.207 and positive experimentation has failed. Sure, 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:12.177 But we don't we don't think of Nothing of investing three or 4 billions of 00:15:12.210 --> 00:15:16.677 dollars in failing an aircraft so that we find out how the craft aircraft 00:15:16.710 --> 00:15:20.866 could fail. But we're not willing to invest $1 million dollars in a open 00:15:20.899 --> 00:15:26.807 expo yet to deliver. Well, that's the most complex problem we're faced 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:32.506 with is not the airplane Mr Urban Commission. So there is a total, 00:15:32.539 --> 00:15:40.539 irrational way of looking at things, appointment. 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:49.240 Mhm 00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:55.407 Mhm 00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:02.167 We're done and very, very, very, very quickly unless you go thousands of 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:07.986 feet, you stay within 30 40 50 maybe 100 floors. You're not at every 10 ft 00:16:08.019 --> 00:16:12.667 , You have a landscape practically speaking. So that's that's where the 00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:17.717 efficiency comes in. And naturally, if it was, that wasn't true, we would 00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:21.817 not be three dimensional, we would be flat. So humanity which would be 00:16:21.850 --> 00:16:27.707 like a leaf. But we cannot do it because to contain what we have in a flat 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:33.707 area for me, for my being, I would need probably campus 00:16:33.740 --> 00:16:38.337 in order to do what I'm doing. So I am a campus to campus or you may see 00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:44.986 immediately the, the total irrelevance of that approach. The approach is 00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:49.807 three dimensional, 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.106 20 Stories, 50 Stories. 00:16:53.139 --> 00:16:59.366 Mhm Yeah, well they're not miles. There are one mile and so on that there 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:04.036 is you're confusing the presentation of a counselor that wants to show the 00:17:04.069 --> 00:17:08.407 possibilities with the actual performance. 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.407 So that's why I was saying those are, those are 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:16.397 symbols, those are abstractions and so on. That doesn't mean that 00:17:16.430 --> 00:17:20.046 eventually we might, we might not do that because of the materials, but 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:24.576 you don't need to go any more than a few dozens of stores to have a three 00:17:24.609 --> 00:17:30.897 dimensional system. But but I mean you got what I mean, that you need only 00:17:30.930 --> 00:17:36.967 use it in bedroom to have performances going on while you need hundreds of 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:42.607 feet high performance is going on. And naturally uh 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:48.207 the development of life showed that very clearly the 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:54.377 vegetable kingdom could not go beyond a certain kind of conscious of, of 00:17:54.410 --> 00:17:58.246 sensitivity. And the reason the fundamental reason probably was because 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:01.796 the vegetable kingdom has to spread out itself in order to capture the 00:18:01.829 --> 00:18:06.677 energy of the sun. So you needed the next step which was the folding of 00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:10.506 that system in a tray dimensional system in order to produce eventually 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:16.026 sensitivity, consciousness of consciousness and eventually freedom. But 00:18:16.059 --> 00:18:21.397 now now if we decided we go back to the vegetable then we have to get to 00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:29.430 examine our conscience and decide if this is honest. Yeah. 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.707 No 00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.806 solar. 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:38.306 Yeah. How 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:42.976 well. Hold on. Okay we are. We're working with the Environmental research 00:18:43.009 --> 00:18:48.806 center in Tucson at the university. They are our consultant 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:56.707 and they have been given us a guidelines for the development of India. And 00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:00.836 they seem to be quite exciting excited about the process because it seems 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:07.907 to be working quite well 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:15.940 I believe. Yeah. Mhm. 00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:20.907 Everything continues one way or the earth. 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:28.940 No, I haven't. 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:36.207 The question is uh as the population increases, how those structure adapt 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.637 up to a point I would be on the point they would have to make a new 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:45.086 development which again, it's very organic. You if you can see the whole 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.907 thing 00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:54.437 but there's a difference between the the inner life of a system and the 00:19:54.470 --> 00:20:01.006 dimension that this system can develop into. And as we know in any kind of 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.877 biological system dimensions. It's very fundamental. You cannot have an 00:20:04.910 --> 00:20:10.026 elephant which is 1/5 of the size will have a man which is 20 times the 00:20:10.059 --> 00:20:16.937 size of a normal person. But what you have is the reproduction only Only 00:20:16.970 --> 00:20:20.546 in very elementary societies, you can have something that can go on 00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:24.937 endlessly. One example is the coral that does our societies, which are 00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:31.440 very mhm LTD in social terms, and naturally, they don't have any culture.