WEBVTT

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probably, can you reconstruct

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kind of

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the purpose that was supposed to have
had.

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Mm hmm you're the only, the only clear
or cynically purpose was that as a

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family group. I felt it was would be
much richer to be part of. Not to be

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isolated but to be integrated in a
larger group. So that you're not by

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having a bigger family let's say.

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And I was saying that maybe is what,
what has been translated later into

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this idea of the tribal of the village
and so on. And that was part of

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some kind of evolution. You move from
the single into the collective and

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that's represented by the interest
that they had in architecture and

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environment in school. I was involved
in houses

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and then I got a little minds in
clusters and then I got this in villages

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, in towns and cities and so on. Yeah.
Also at that stage you were, had

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become quite interested in the
apprentice system. The italian apprentice

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system. The bodega. Yeah. Which was in
combination with the frank, Lloyd

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wright experience.

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Which is also an apprentice type of

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of life. Uh, I've never been negative
about the academic process question

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because its own usefulness and its
only importance. So I never suggested

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to anyone that they should not go to
school or anything like that at the

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same time. I felt that you need to add
to that something else which is the

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physical environment

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in those parts of your professional or
your activity which how physical in

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kind

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setting up apprenticeship is a very
good place in our culture.

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Yeah. Um

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have trying to recall some of the
early things that you did when you

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return to Arizona and it seems to me
that the Luxembourg bridges were

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rather important milestone. Um, I
think one of the disappointing parts of

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that experience is the, is the way in
which they didn't get judge

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adjudicated as part of a competition.
There was a priority. The final

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priority because when we got the
invitation, there were two months left

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and you were supposed to be coming out
with the project with the

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contracting firm with everything ready
for construction. So I knew that

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there was nothing, nothing

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any possibility as far as
construction. But I was interesting. I was

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interested in ideas. So I I did those
four or five sketches. So what was

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your purpose in doing the Luxembourg
designs? A pleasure of designing,

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putting down some ideas about bridges,
that's all.

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Mhm. Um it's rather interesting that
you should have with that and with

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some later studies, been quite
involved in in designs that seemed to

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satisfy the automobile and well
vehicles. Whereas more recently you Oh

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really become turned off by the
automobile.

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No, I am telling you what to do in the
city. I'm not turned off in

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automobile and as a device that takes
man

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from the city somewhere else. Mm No, I
can see the price tag involved in

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it

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in for instance, in arcosanti of there
are no accommodations for

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automobiles. There will be in terms of
simply a simply place the lock them

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up I suppose similar to what happens
when you arrived at venice. Mhm. You

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put your car in a garage and Ok hmm.

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Mhm. Mhm. Right. How do you, how do
you feel now about your involvement in

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making bells? I realized that it's
your daily bread. But how would you

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relate that very long term commitment
two,

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something that could be considered a
little bit superficial.

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How do you see making bills with your
your chief goals in life?

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I think it's it's good to uh smart to
be active in in all at all levels

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somehow all time. And if if if I was
picked up and put into even the most

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comfortable and in freeing environment
but I couldn't do anything

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physically. I would go I would go out
of my mind in a few days so I need I

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need the physical environment in the
bears. No, no I'm not that much of an

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involvement but in fact now I'm
selling again because I I think we need

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more money so I'm trying to to come up
with a new line to produce more

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think but also you feel the need to
have your hands involved. Yeah. Well I

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enjoy more and more gardening in the
way in terms of physical involvement

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in designing right of

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I'm sort of interested in what you
might have to say about work.

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Uh huh. Work as a life activity as
opposed to some other way of spending

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your time. Mhm. Well if your mind your
mind,

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well it takes than anyone any anything
is working away because supposedly

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you go up by by doing almost anything.
If your mind is totally idle then

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no matter how busy you are, you're not
working, you're just a busy body.

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The thing is that I was saying if if I
had to engage myself only with my

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mind and I would not, I will really be
in that shape. So I need I need to

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be able to move from the from what you
might call the pure speculative to

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the very physical and that's why I
feel very much the importance of having

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an environment in which in which you
can integrate us two things.

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So when one minute you are sitting
down writing something in the next

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minute you're moving the holes or
trimming a tree using here that uh but

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it would be fairly easy to relate.
That kind of restlessness and ambition

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with the protestant work ethic which
supposedly he's one of the

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foundations of the success of the
United States. Mhm. How do you relate to

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the protestant work ethic? Well, if
greed comes in then I don't relate and

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that's not because because of a moral
decision because I don't I don't

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have any inclination,

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you know to total accumulating things,
it just doesn't it doesn't interest

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me. So if if the addicts is to be
productive because to be productive,

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it's important for from men in
general, I think I would agree if this,

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this ethic is attached or is the
bandwagon or is something that brings in

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this very quiet but very, very
powerful greed, eat of them? I'm not

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institute.

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Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. You've been interviewed
many times too many times. I never

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learned my lesson yet. What are the
what are the typical sort of questions

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that people ask interviewers ask?

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Well, I don't know. I forget things.
Yeah. Well, when they ask about about

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the the ecology, the typical question
is, you're treating people like bees

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are like ants. What makes you think
you have the right to do that for

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instance. So it doesn't look good on
from there, but in effect they are

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passing judgment.

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Well, it's very difficult to have a
person questioning without this person

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building the answering some questions,

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but Well, what you've suggested is
that a typical reaction to everything

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that you're doing and standing for for
comes into that kind of

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understanding the crowding

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well of automating. One of my
experience is that life is in the thick of

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things. So yes, but sickness doesn't
have to be uh the uniformity. PBS I

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don't mean thickness of matter. I mean
thickness of events. Yes, but again

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, the thickness doesn't necessarily
force uniformity. No. And that seems

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that seems to be part of the message
that

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people aren't getting well because
it's quite naturally when, when you see

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them a little model or a little
sketch, evidently this cannot portrayed

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the potentials of the possibility of
whatever distilled diagram shows.

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Yeah, maybe if this person had in mind
a grade of phoenix

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and then maybe they could, you could
begin to say, well, look at the grid

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of phoenix is not that important of,

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well, first great variety,

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but we'll accept anything that we're
used to. In fact, we made we make the

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models, we've ended the stuff of our
life and we said, well, we just

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improve this and that and we got it.
We cannot very well accept anything

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else that that doesn't belong to this,

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acknowledge somehow known, contradict
herbal thing that we saw we surround

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ourselves with. That's why it's so
difficult to do something which is out

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of the ordinary. It's frightening, no
matter what it is. It's frightening.

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Would you see that as being one of the
reasons why the architectural

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profession has not been particularly
interested in what you're doing? Well

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, the liberal professions should be a
little more clever than that,

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frankly, because the architect should
be able to to move from the

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abstraction of an idea or a similar
idea into a projection of what this is

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my employee. So I'm not very

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I'm I'm very willing to understand
that

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the difficulty of the layman
environment environment. Mhm. Toward

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something which is outside of the
ordinary. I'm not at all willing to

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accept that in a professional. Yes,

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mm hmm.

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In terms of your own life and uh
comparing it with a typical mhm Uh huh

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architect you have built very few
things. Oh, yep, almost nothing,

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practically, practically nothing. Uh
what does that mean?

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Well, it means many things he made one
thing means that I, my moment of

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frustrations,

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frustration

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and but it means also that it would
be, it would be very foolish to think

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that the professional architecture is
construction or to mean that a

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person fails because there's a title
attached to this person and the title

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suggested unless you build 50,000
times a year or something you have not,

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you didn't make it or you didn't, you
were not a success story or anything

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like that. In fact it's quite evident
that architecture involves more than

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the execution of for some ideas at
this point involves a geological

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process.

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How do you regard your many unbuilt
project?

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It was a,

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has ideas that are sitting there with
some marriage but being not being a

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developed to the point of
concreteness. They they are very abstract.

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Do you do you see their value as
primarily to yourself in terms of your

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own evolution?

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Oh yeah, if if all those things were
canceled from my mind, I would be in

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in that shape because they are very
much part of my development,

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which of those projects do you think
you learned most from, of the unbuilt

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thing, A Little one built.

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Yeah, It's probably hard to even
separate one like study from another. I

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wouldn't

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still it has not seemed to be
tremendously important to you to publish

00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:35.606
those study. Mhm.

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I think they are sitting there and
there will be will be useful from time

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to time or maybe more organized way
from now on. I'm really thinking that

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we have a patrimony there that we
should make use of translated into bags

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of cement.

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Excellent. Excellent.

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Mhm. You just use the term we you're
identifying a broader front of people.

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Yeah, I didn't mean we the Pope. Uh
huh.

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I met with foundation.

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Mhm. Um Still one of the interesting
things about the development of your

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idea is the fact that while there
there is a team effort in effect, there

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have not been any other people who
have been associated with these ideas

00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:47.820
for an extended period of time who
have achieved some identity. Uh huh. Um

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Yeah and I don't know, I don't know
exactly why that is so

00:16:57.139 --> 00:16:59.407
yeah,

00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:04.546
everything because I think at this
point the concept is pretty clear and

00:17:04.579 --> 00:17:12.579
can be totally separated from the
totally Yeah and so I don't know,

00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:20.256
I know that evidently will not be easy
for me to have a twin person at

00:17:20.289 --> 00:17:27.306
this point with which I could work in
total lessons,

00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:32.556
it would have been much easier many
years ago. Mhm But alternatively

00:17:32.589 --> 00:17:40.589
someone else would bring their own
strengths and weaknesses which could be

00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:46.607
a complimentary,

00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:51.006
it hasn't been. I mean that it's
simply the way things have happened,

00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:57.806
there hasn't been any. Well I see
program in one direction or another

00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:04.107
raising that somehow quite normal
though,

00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:10.586
if there is a strong drive somewhere
from somebody, it's not very easy to

00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:15.127
have to have another strong that I've
come in and work in tandem. It's not

00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:23.006
that it's impossible but it's not the
most normal thing to happen.

00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:31.039
How do you see yourself in
relationship to the Giants of the early part of

00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:36.867
the 20th century in architectural
terms? How do you see what you're doing

00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:41.707
with people such as like a bustier?

00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:46.907
Mhm. I don't know, evidently evidently
the physical production is

00:18:46.940 --> 00:18:53.607
enormously more the more substantial
in mind from that point of view. I

00:18:53.640 --> 00:19:01.640
it would be hard for me to to think of
being there with them.

00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:07.296
But what about the world of ideas?
Well, I think in that in that world I I

00:19:07.329 --> 00:19:12.137
think I have something very important
and that you are as important as any

00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:20.170
as any so that you have grown on and
grown out of some of their leadership.

00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:26.167
Oh I think so literally and I have so
little interest now in architecture.

00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:31.806
Such a sense of seeing what this
architect does. That architect as I'm

00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:37.367
the last thing. I mean in opening is a
cultural magazine which in a way

00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:42.486
it's bad but I really don't have any
any interest or reading about

00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:44.506
architecture

00:19:44.539 --> 00:19:47.306
you won't

00:19:47.339 --> 00:19:55.339
So what sort of magazines do you open
magazine time bible. Uh huh. Do you

00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:02.207
miss Life magazine? No not very much.

00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.607
What's what and

00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:12.306
and what is it on tv that Yeah.

00:20:12.339 --> 00:20:17.417
Is most capital as an italian and then
moves on the screen is it's very

00:20:17.450 --> 00:20:23.107
hypnotic.

00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:30.887
Uh But I think you get a great deal
out of the documentaries, don't you? I

00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:36.796
would I would never agree with anyone
that tv is useless or its evil into

00:20:36.829 --> 00:20:42.647
my dad. I'm very glad exists. In fact
for me personally I don't need any

00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:49.806
newspapers. So that's that's where I
get my news. Mhm. My dairy vision of

00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.006
of

00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.806
contemporary events.

00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:58.707
Uh

00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:06.740
earlier you used a term frugality in a
way of describing how you live. Uh

00:21:09.740 --> 00:21:14.266
these do you really see that as being
an appealing way for other people in

00:21:14.299 --> 00:21:20.576
the United States to live? I'm just
finishing a paper about it. And what

00:21:20.609 --> 00:21:24.407
does it say?

00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:29.006
Well it says that

00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:35.236
for one thing it says that mediocrity
and frugality are antibiotic. I'm

00:21:35.269 --> 00:21:38.996
trying to explain it why I don't know
if I can. No I mean without the

00:21:39.029 --> 00:21:44.197
paper then I'm saying that at this
point it seems to be the only thing

00:21:44.230 --> 00:21:46.907
that would really

00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:53.306
fit a little tight of mankind.

00:21:53.339 --> 00:21:58.836
Yeah and I'm saying that take frugal
condition which is which is a

00:21:58.869 --> 00:22:03.536
Children condition is not an imposed
condition. It's the condition of

00:22:03.569 --> 00:22:09.806
whether you are more alert, More lady
to do things.

00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.707
Finally, little attempting

00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:17.566
from a cultural point of view, I
suppose we could find a precedent. So for

00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:23.806
both points of view, there are
cultures that have reached very high

00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:31.839
plateaus based on frugality, very
modest means. Uh But alternatively, yeah

00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:39.597
, one can identify some very strong
results from highly consumptive

00:22:39.630 --> 00:22:44.486
consumptive situation. Yeah. The
question that it was always that this

00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:51.016
consumption was was conspicuous for
the foreign minority, but it was based

00:22:51.049 --> 00:22:59.049
on almost in a squalor, a lot of
wretchedness for the majority.

00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:07.177
So the leisure, the leisure classes in
the past who were based on the oil

00:23:07.210 --> 00:23:12.107
and the labor of the masses.

00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:16.697
Now this is not necessarily so
anymore. But still you don't see that as

00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:19.107
being appropriate.

00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:24.816
Well, evidently there must be a better
way of developing your blind brain

00:23:24.849 --> 00:23:31.806
and being a parasite most of mankind.

00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:37.006
So in effect you would advocate

00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:42.667
pretty strong ethic in terms of
lifestyle. I would guess. So that's why I

00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:47.607
have to we got this through the

00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:52.306
people that are working with me, you
know, more constant way than just six

00:23:52.339 --> 00:24:00.339
weeks so that we're clear about about
a certain number of things.

00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:10.039
Can you describe how frugality might
affect let's say one's diet.

00:24:12.009 --> 00:24:15.006
You got me stuff.

00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.107
Yeah. Oh I

00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:26.556
I think that you can you can manage,
you're feeding in a pretty simple way

00:24:26.589 --> 00:24:32.607
without giving up the pleasure of
eating at all, but naturally depends so

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.647
much on your background and also in
your demands of youth, your body. And

00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.986
actually when you're young, you're
you're here too gulp amount of energy

00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:47.707
that you need any longer when you're
not

00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:52.207
young anymore. But

00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.207
if you go into a supermarket,

00:24:55.240 --> 00:25:03.076
you are somehow that this made by the
double thing, there's so much but

00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:10.306
the daughter is so much, there is so
little as far as real quality that

00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:13.546
immediately you're struck by some kind
of wastefulness that we should be

00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:17.907
able to get rid of, right.

00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:23.786
You have been in some of the european
countries or Greece, you know how

00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:28.056
much you can do with just about
nothing. Clearly nothing. three or 4

00:25:28.089 --> 00:25:32.407
things that you have the skill

00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:36.707
putting them to get in the right way
and you get it an incredible thing.

00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.907
And then you enter into a

00:25:39.940 --> 00:25:47.097
A two acre supermarket and you want to
in effect, this is an application

00:25:47.130 --> 00:25:55.130
of aesthetic genesis another level
which is the level we're everyone not

00:25:55.150 --> 00:26:00.016
only has the right to be, but anyone
should try to develop because that's

00:26:00.049 --> 00:26:04.907
the art of living, which is to make
your life into an aesthetic process

00:26:04.940 --> 00:26:08.607
into a graceful process

00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:16.640
and you can do it with very limited
amount of anything.

00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:25.339
Uhh, just following that idea. Maybe
we don't need architecture.

00:26:26.630 --> 00:26:32.806
And no, I'm not in for that because

00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:38.066
architecture is done intermediary that
it's absolutely essential, not not

00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:44.377
architecture as maybe they are the
architects, the architect being, you

00:26:44.410 --> 00:26:46.806
know, the

00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:53.806
the God that makes decision. But as
that kind of in the environment which

00:26:53.839 --> 00:27:01.839
connects you with to the with all
nature too. Nature of such.

00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:05.887
Whenever you have two persons to
persons plus and institutions between

00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:10.897
institutions And this institution is
not necessary in the two person and

00:27:10.930 --> 00:27:17.427
institution can be as simple as a
glass with some wine or that played with

00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:22.657
some red, but it can become as complex
as a library, as a movie theater,

00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:30.690
as a meeting place, as anything of the
city. So this is necessary. So, the

00:27:32.190 --> 00:27:38.746
frugality is not in a the concept of
frugality is not the elimination of

00:27:38.779 --> 00:27:44.976
means, but it's in the selective and
creative leanness of the means and

00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:48.407
the substance of them.

00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:54.207
Because otherwise forgot it would mean
that you

00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:59.506
you slowly go back to the being a
naked ape,

00:27:59.539 --> 00:28:03.347
even forgetting that you cannot have
10 billions of negatives, you could

00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:07.306
have only a few millions of negatives

00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:13.407
ridiculous arriving in her own way.

00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.907
Yeah.

00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:23.407
So, you see frugality as being much
more than an expedient. Absolutely.

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.377
It's a certain condition. See a sudden
condition of grace where you can

00:28:29.410 --> 00:28:33.357
really begin to perform if there's
something in you that allows you to

00:28:33.390 --> 00:28:39.556
perform. So, it's a privilege. It's
not a conclusion. It's not a a

00:28:39.589 --> 00:28:46.506
condition of the the handicapped.
We're an inferior condition.

00:28:46.539 --> 00:28:51.806
It's a an optimum

00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:58.907
position for action.

00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:03.447
Some people have suggested that you
and your life have somewhat withdrawn

00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.707
from the real life.

00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:13.857
How do you feel about how you
withdrawn? I'm not a I don't have a very

00:29:13.890 --> 00:29:20.217
exciting life, my excitement. You
mean? You don't know what I'm a very

00:29:20.250 --> 00:29:27.006
routine life and

00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.407
in many ways.

00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:38.440
Yeah. But if if you're hoping to be
able to provide some

00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:45.907
uh some universal directions, let's
say no,

00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:51.847
maybe you should be more in the thick
of things to use your quotation No,

00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:59.880
I'm trying to build a thick thickness,
which I I believe I can believe in

00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:06.207
so that you really see as a primary
goal. Yeah, we're not we're not in the

00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:11.907
desert or our country because we want
to get away from it. We want to

00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:17.867
establish it there with some
characteristics, frugality being one, the

00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:22.607
other one being the being conscious
that there are very fundamental

00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:30.306
problems that we have to face again to
make the list of energy,

00:30:30.339 --> 00:30:36.607
non integrity in the sense of
segregation. Um

00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:41.907
the enormous amount of materials and

00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:49.940
gadget trees and hardware that we seem
to be mm convincing. Also they are

00:30:50.109 --> 00:30:58.109
necessary indispensable and the
pollution open. So the Children population.

00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:01.440
Yeah. As I was saying, if those bells are not constantly ringing, we are.

00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:13.539
It's very easy to go into a some kind
of a binge which has a didn't

00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:19.637
this doesn't mean that I think we are
successful in what we're doing, but

00:31:19.670 --> 00:31:27.670
we're attempting to do something in in
those directions. Mhm.

00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:34.306
What do you see as your life goal?

00:31:34.339 --> 00:31:42.339
Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, probably. It has
changed, it changes daily or yearly, but

00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:47.766
where you're, where you are at the
moment, what what do you see the goal

00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.786
of you having lived

00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:56.707
to introduce a certain understanding

00:31:56.740 --> 00:31:59.607
of

00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:07.640
of the discipline that life needs in
order to to find freedom?

00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:16.039
Well at least find a the beginning of
a freedom

00:32:17.250 --> 00:32:25.250
and the freedom. The freedom means
that within a and the immense contest

00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:33.566
of non living life is able to affirm
itself and to move for and further

00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:38.607
into transforming the non living into
the living.

00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:44.407
So within this scheme of things,
choice is very important.

00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:48.006
Yeah, a discrimination

00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:56.039
for this process.

00:32:56.940 --> 00:33:03.607
Yeah.

00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:07.306
Do you have anything more to say

00:33:07.339 --> 00:33:13.306
is going to be naptime?

00:33:13.339 --> 00:33:17.806
I think I'm pretty well worked out.

00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:24.877
Okay. The question that I'd asked at
the end of the last session is one

00:33:24.910 --> 00:33:28.496
that I really wish we could pursue but
I don't know Oh about the

00:33:28.529 --> 00:33:32.847
profession, well the profession and
the,

00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.536
you know, the ordinary person, it
seems to me that environment is

00:33:36.569 --> 00:33:44.569
something that everybody has to deal
with. Uh huh. And somehow or other it

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.207
requires

00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.877
professional expertise which obviously
just by definition everybody

00:33:52.910 --> 00:33:58.107
doesn't have and

00:33:58.140 --> 00:34:02.867
it looks like we're in a absolute bind
when you begin to look at the

00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:08.206
global kind of responsibilities.

00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:16.239
Okay. It seems like architects are in
a very a controversial kind of from

00:34:17.139 --> 00:34:19.407
position.

00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.606
Yeah. Well

00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:26.796
that because you were saying you sent
two ways of looking at it from the

00:34:26.829 --> 00:34:29.506
inside and from the outside

00:34:29.539 --> 00:34:36.106
from both directions. We should
realize that we have to trust we need

00:34:36.139 --> 00:34:41.407
if we don't base life on trust we are
we're in for

00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:49.440
for the grading kind of of constant no

00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:52.307
bleeding.

00:34:52.340 --> 00:34:58.327
If if I don't feel well, I'm not going
to the I'm not going to butcher or

00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:05.376
to the so yesterday man, I'm going to
the doctor. If I need a a government

00:35:05.409 --> 00:35:11.626
, I'm not going to the play store to
the psychiatrist, I'm going to the

00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:19.517
tailor. So I had to trust in every act
which I am bob. I'm trusting in the

00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:23.206
expertise of someone else.

00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:29.157
Then if I if I cannot do that the
animal, I mean for the for disaster, I'm

00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:37.190
just going to kill myself through
doubt through envy through all sorts of

00:35:38.139 --> 00:35:42.407
ugly and not very constructive things.

00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:48.856
So we must delegate to other people
into our institutions things which are

00:35:48.889 --> 00:35:53.106
going to transform our lives

00:35:53.139 --> 00:35:58.307
and and hopefully there are some
expertise even there that makes the

00:35:58.340 --> 00:36:03.566
doctor to know a little more than the
butcher and they'll know a little

00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:09.717
more about the government's than Mhm.
And the pharmacist. So as an

00:36:09.750 --> 00:36:17.477
architect, we had to be worthy of this
trust

00:36:17.510 --> 00:36:21.597
and uh the business of being creative.
It's most of the time in the

00:36:21.630 --> 00:36:25.836
business of being selective. That's
why education is important because we

00:36:25.869 --> 00:36:28.597
have to try to

00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:35.936
being become more selected by by
elevating they the quality of the choices

00:36:35.969 --> 00:36:40.796
that we make through our own
education.

00:36:40.829 --> 00:36:44.756
But what we enjoy most of the time is
not the fact that we create

00:36:44.789 --> 00:36:49.197
something that we enjoy most of the
time is the fact that we have options

00:36:49.230 --> 00:36:55.117
and we make a choice which you feel.
All right. So again, if I had to buy

00:36:55.150 --> 00:36:59.657
a pair of shoes, I'm not going to make
a pair of shoes. No, I used to make

00:36:59.690 --> 00:37:06.336
them for myself. But they were
sandals. But you go you go in and from the

00:37:06.369 --> 00:37:10.186
selection represented to you. You pick
up the parachute that you identify

00:37:10.219 --> 00:37:17.767
with. So this is a delegation this
vicarious nous and sometimes you

00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:23.727
bringing me mrs you copy you see
something which attacks you and you say

00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.477
you attacked so much that you want to
make something which is similar to

00:37:27.510 --> 00:37:31.506
it. So you copy with the little
variations and you come out with something

00:37:31.539 --> 00:37:36.217
that you feel you made yourself solely
general with you. But most of the

00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:40.236
time it's a copy of something that you
enjoy seeing or feeling or

00:37:40.269 --> 00:37:45.997
experiencing. And we should have that
enough

00:37:46.030 --> 00:37:52.086
enough immunity to understand that
That's most of what we do and enjoy be

00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:55.796
vicarious being

00:37:55.829 --> 00:38:03.829
doing. Act of nemesis and trusting.

00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:14.686
That's a pretty strong case for
professionals.

00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:20.046
We're both ways. There is it indicates
the responsibility of them and also

00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.986
the fact that they should be trusted

00:38:24.019 --> 00:38:32.019
because if you don't if nobody trusts
anybody else then is a

00:38:32.420 --> 00:38:36.787
Everybody from one south?

00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:40.486
All right. Mhm.

00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:47.186
Mhm. Does anyone here have any
questions they'd like to pose?

00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:54.486
Yes. Uh huh. Mhm. She actually pulled
with the package

00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:59.787
but she Mhm, creativity

00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:06.686
and the question they offer.

00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:13.686
How do you know when the media

00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:20.186
That's a good question and now you
don't know.

00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:26.887
Yeah.

00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:34.920
All right. It seems to me that when
when you tend to to perform in a way

00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:43.467
which is not really a making you feel
better, but it might be able to fit

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:47.287
you in a certain frame

00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:53.816
which goes for respectability. For
instance at that point you have to be

00:39:53.849 --> 00:39:58.347
very careful because that's where you
media actually my caribbean. And

00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:01.767
what if you're really honest with
yourself then I think you cannot be

00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.177
mediocre.

00:40:04.210 --> 00:40:07.677
But if you begin to act

00:40:07.710 --> 00:40:12.247
for the sake one thing that you really
don't believe in, but you feel that

00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:20.280
it's an opportune to stick with, then
you fall into the

00:40:21.010 --> 00:40:24.677
into the condition of mediocrity.

00:40:24.710 --> 00:40:30.916
So you can be terribly humble,
terribly ignorant in many ways and what you

00:40:30.949 --> 00:40:35.876
might call an gifted and never be
mediocrity.

00:40:35.909 --> 00:40:43.566
Well, you can be very gifted. Okay,
very fortunate um and have a certain

00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:47.077
drive and be terribly mediocre

00:40:47.110 --> 00:40:54.436
because in a way you are there is
malice. This hypocrisy.

00:40:54.469 --> 00:41:00.977
No. Portuguese involved in what you do

00:41:01.010 --> 00:41:04.206
and naturally we are all prey of those
things. So we are we are all

00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:09.637
mediocre in many many of the things we
do. The point is to be able to get

00:41:09.670 --> 00:41:17.670
off and then we'll be able to see
ourselves and try to do something about

00:41:19.510 --> 00:41:24.086
can't do a thing like that. We do so
many things with our lives that in

00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:32.119
some fields we cannot escape levels
mediocrity. And those are the fields

00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:37.157
where we should accept the judgment of
the pirates of someone else because

00:41:37.190 --> 00:41:42.077
we might excel in one direction and
then knead the terribly guidance in

00:41:42.110 --> 00:41:48.977
many other directions. Oh

00:41:49.010 --> 00:41:54.816
um the first part of the question,

00:41:54.849 --> 00:41:59.276
the first part of the question I
forgot.

00:41:59.309 --> 00:42:03.767
Mhm. Oh you had something about

00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:06.867
create creativity?

00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:14.900
Well I was just trying brain is
wearing occurred. Mhm.

00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:26.500
Are there any other questions? Yes.
You said that we have to defend

00:42:26.699 --> 00:42:32.586
of some other people otherwise we're
then and I'd like to know you've

00:42:32.619 --> 00:42:40.396
always felt this way and that applies
to a whole spectrum of fields there

00:42:40.429 --> 00:42:48.429
are some fields that we do have to
depend on. Mhm. Although we can manage

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:55.057
well, we all tend to specialize some
of so when we specialize in a certain

00:42:55.090 --> 00:42:58.767
direction, that's where we tend to

00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:04.296
to interrogate ourselves when we need
expertise. So if I'm a doctor and I

00:43:04.329 --> 00:43:11.747
don't feel well my my investigate
through my knowledge what my problem I

00:43:11.780 --> 00:43:16.137
made by me with me or if I'm an
architect and I have a problem or

00:43:16.170 --> 00:43:22.887
environmental. Mhm. The kind I might I
might get my except stays out and

00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:26.566
try to get answers.

00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:31.896
But evidently we cannot be experts in
every field so we need help

00:43:31.929 --> 00:43:36.467
desperately most of the time.

00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:42.896
Have you always felt this deep? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. You don't you don't have

00:43:42.929 --> 00:43:48.767
to consciously be aware of that. But
if you examine

00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.267
you're

00:43:52.300 --> 00:43:56.646
existential posture, you find out that
you are utterly dependent

00:43:56.679 --> 00:44:02.256
constantly from everybody else.

00:44:02.289 --> 00:44:08.577
So it's the norm is that you're
dependent, dependent animal. The exception

00:44:08.610 --> 00:44:14.057
is that now and then you're able to

00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:17.256
to offer

00:44:17.289 --> 00:44:24.456
to society or to life something that
might make you

00:44:24.489 --> 00:44:30.256
together.

00:44:30.289 --> 00:44:34.356
Um Let's see the

00:44:34.389 --> 00:44:36.756
special.

00:44:36.789 --> 00:44:42.736
Mhm. I missed the other day and I had
it before and I missed the first

00:44:42.769 --> 00:44:47.057
part

00:44:47.090 --> 00:44:52.657
going on. Yeah. A pretty elementary

00:44:52.690 --> 00:45:00.690
nation. But something yeah, indicated
yes. Thank you. Service. This was

00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:09.816
that once the egg like creature. Mhm.
Sandals from the trees to the ground

00:45:09.849 --> 00:45:15.807
to the horizontal plane and began to
to travel and to observe other

00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:17.840
animalsinto