WEBVTT 00:00:03.140 --> 00:00:05.140 the graduate plus of energy and environment theory um from a shoe. And 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.206 we're speaking with paolo Soleri 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:21.896 about his concepts related to energy and environment. And I suppose that 00:00:21.929 --> 00:00:26.706 may be a good place to start Is 00:00:26.739 --> 00:00:34.739 from your point of view. How would you define environment? 00:00:36.009 --> 00:00:41.207 Right? 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:45.207 Mm hmm. 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:53.016 But it depends on how far off reach with major connections. Maybe we 00:00:53.049 --> 00:00:58.927 should just start from an individual point of view and then go as far a 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:04.206 field as our global responsibilities 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.507 should take us. 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:13.587 Uh the immediate environment which is it starts with your clothing and 00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:17.107 home 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:21.507 social. Oh 00:01:21.540 --> 00:01:27.036 connections what what terrorist is 00:01:27.069 --> 00:01:32.906 are material dependent as well Really cycles of life, 00:01:32.939 --> 00:01:39.007 Economic, social, political, cultural, religious. 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:44.007 But that's what the beyond the immediate 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:48.236 So 00:01:48.269 --> 00:01:54.107 you can extend your voters show them 00:01:54.140 --> 00:02:02.140 nation all the species, all those pieces the world and the cosmos. 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:11.987 Oh and I suppose we ought before taking that any further option identify 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:18.156 how you would describe environment choosing energy mm particularly as it 00:02:18.189 --> 00:02:24.207 relates to the environment definition. 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:32.240 It's a risk of that element which is always present is always being 00:02:32.979 --> 00:02:40.979 whenever the week we act and since Caroline we constantly so being arrived 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:48.006 to the consumers. Uh huh. 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:53.987 And if we can't forget that. So the mystical energy speaks in in terms of 00:02:54.020 --> 00:03:01.506 large chunks of it. I love what I need specifically what uh cooking a meal 00:03:01.539 --> 00:03:06.106 morning car 00:03:06.139 --> 00:03:12.916 getting something implemented. Just a biological existence. We have this 00:03:12.949 --> 00:03:20.949 energy. So to paraphrase you equate it with being alive 00:03:21.629 --> 00:03:28.027 and with what is that an energy means a lot. Love needs energy without 00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:33.626 energy. There is no facility of blood. So it's kind of the stables which 00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:39.827 we just why do you not associated with liveliness? And it seemed like the 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:46.707 quality of energy would have to do with the quality of life. And margins 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:53.906 you know if you should try to cause myself as the object. When you find 00:03:53.939 --> 00:04:01.307 out that basically alive, let's go. I'm optimistic 00:04:01.340 --> 00:04:05.946 person. So the cosmos 00:04:05.979 --> 00:04:12.217 numbering system, they would sell energetic system. Mm Believe this car 00:04:12.250 --> 00:04:19.707 which is not alive. You will have a space liveliness which are making use 00:04:19.740 --> 00:04:27.589 after an incident. Shoes. Yeah, strategies fundamentally alone. Leaving. 00:04:31.750 --> 00:04:33.750 There is a tiny particles which are agents by the meeting came over to 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.906 exist. Probably 00:04:42.939 --> 00:04:49.207 transform. 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:54.806 Uh huh. You know the class is composed primarily of architects and 00:04:54.839 --> 00:05:02.106 engineers. Yeah. You Yeah at least at the beginning as an architect. I 00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:06.106 wonder if we could talk about in general terms about professional 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:12.877 responsibilities particularly as it relates to brought our own developed 00:05:12.910 --> 00:05:16.106 talents on. 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:23.007 Okay, for instance without how do you see your 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:31.040 responsibilities or ambitions in relationship to energy? 00:05:31.939 --> 00:05:39.767 We'll try to read two pages. It's gonna be quick 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:45.306 got. 00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:48.666 Mhm 00:05:48.699 --> 00:05:54.416 Well let's accept it 00:05:54.449 --> 00:05:58.906 here. 00:05:58.939 --> 00:06:02.507 Oh 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:08.217 That this was a statement that has to be contained within five minutes. It 00:06:08.250 --> 00:06:12.467 was a description of a meeting 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:18.447 san Francisco for what he called in january. The revolutions and so we 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:26.480 have five minutes. Each speaker respect. Not everyone good. Would you like 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:34.720 to discuss it after each paragraph? That be the way to ensure? 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.877 Well, the first paragraph is a single sentence because of the birth of 00:06:40.910 --> 00:06:45.996 consciousness within a quite possibly meaningless universe. And because 00:06:46.029 --> 00:06:52.757 consciousness moves mindful of values, reality might now be seeking and 00:06:52.790 --> 00:06:56.707 pursuing meaning. 00:06:56.740 --> 00:07:03.306 You're implying there. But there's something very timely. 00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:11.339 But by timely, I mean this service system talk to manage abuse the parents 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:20.406 of conscious. Mhm. But you see that as being very 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:26.377 much of the present at that time span. 00:07:26.410 --> 00:07:31.846 My fundamental hypothesis is that reality equipped with consciousness is 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:37.246 attempting to create its own semen. This reverses theological thinking, 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:43.827 head to toe that which religion places at the origin deceived the divine 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:51.317 power. The fountain is seen at the end. Instead, Kozma genesis, as the 00:07:51.350 --> 00:07:56.947 word says, is the creation of genes the ultimate genes of the cosmos. In 00:07:56.980 --> 00:08:02.767 this case such process entails the total consumption of the media 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:09.517 available. The physical cosmos itself. Red at the final juncture of 00:08:09.550 --> 00:08:15.736 consummation. The cosmos would replay himself completely namely reservoir 00:08:15.769 --> 00:08:23.769 correction as any good seed replace itself in the organism it contains. 00:08:29.019 --> 00:08:35.537 I am not peddling the truth. I am presenting an hypothesis Why and why one 00:08:35.570 --> 00:08:41.217 such as this? If I had more time, I would follow this line of reasoning if 00:08:41.250 --> 00:08:46.016 it is a fact that equity justice, truth, beauty and grace are the real 00:08:46.049 --> 00:08:52.026 longing of conscious life. That this eschatological hypothesis might be 00:08:52.059 --> 00:08:58.646 the only one truth truth. The only nun true to such long. And if this were 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:02.486 to be proven then the imperative of consciousness clearly would be the 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:08.047 dedication Phil. And unwavering to the development of this ultimate c this 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:14.506 divine occasion. Well, terrible unconventional. 00:09:14.539 --> 00:09:18.817 According to this hypothesis, truth does not exist. It is in the process 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:23.866 of being creative. The same is true of justice, perfection, Beauty and 00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:29.547 grace. The embryonic stage of all these and present explains the existence 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:35.207 of injustice, score suffering, disgrace and ugliness. 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:40.717 The human existential deliver is the discrepancy between anticipation and 00:09:40.750 --> 00:09:46.646 the context in which we live in at we dream of perfection and we get 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:53.756 imperfection. We dream of justice and we experience inequality. We dream 00:09:53.789 --> 00:09:58.516 of grace and we live in squalor 00:09:58.549 --> 00:10:06.006 before I go any further. Maybe you discussed this as a second page. Well 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:14.039 you're mhm concept of sort of turning physiological process head to toe. 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:17.907 Um 00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:21.986 you don't describe beginnings. You're only describing endings or 00:10:22.019 --> 00:10:24.116 conclusions 00:10:24.149 --> 00:10:26.907 as far as you've got. 00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:34.940 Well that's very short. Mm mm hmm. Hello. The assumption is that they are 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:37.917 not 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:43.766 My assumption is that the beginning is not divine. It's a very mass. 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:51.799 Energy barbour county. So the reason guideline divine guidance. Mhm cheers. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:11:00.766 Mhm. Existence. That's true to to the Kozma genesis, 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:08.799 divinity can be a consequence of the genesis, Not a they cause a prima 00:11:10.190 --> 00:11:17.386 donna also what the religious mind sees at the beginning. I postulated at 00:11:17.419 --> 00:11:20.307 the end. 00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:28.106 Mm hmm. The capacity of the human mind to anticipate and 00:11:28.139 --> 00:11:32.817 definitely seems to be designed. 00:11:32.850 --> 00:11:38.457 But in terms of beginnings you don't have the big bang to be bang. But 00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:43.276 it's a pretty it's very dirty. It's a very dull bank probably because it's 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:47.407 only with last time 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:51.807 massive changes based on, 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:59.840 okay, so in that sense I'm against the notion of animistic, I'm gonna go 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:07.067 the universe is creating itself into a major organ musical system, but not 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:14.506 because it was such as the original because it might become such and early 00:12:14.539 --> 00:12:17.937 so adamant he had no, 00:12:17.970 --> 00:12:23.657 but I don't know, symbols of consciousness appearing in the evolutionary 00:12:23.690 --> 00:12:26.307 process. 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:32.616 And the grass is a fantasy which refunds because it's a personal, it's 00:12:32.649 --> 00:12:40.457 fine. Well, except that according to your player proposal, it does 00:12:40.490 --> 00:12:48.490 represent a goal. Not really something pretty. 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.606 That's what you call your own legacy. 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:57.506 Which is a 00:12:57.539 --> 00:13:01.947 in a way that is a genetic pattern which contains all the past, which is 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:07.537 revolutionary. Mhm spoke to that from that point of view that it's very 00:13:07.570 --> 00:13:12.077 skeptical. It tends to close back on itself itself in the same way that 00:13:12.110 --> 00:13:16.587 you identify the sea recreate 00:13:16.620 --> 00:13:22.366 what you find at the end of a message, which is the conclusion of the 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:27.407 consumption of the media beginning with the media, the physical universe. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:31.327 You end up with a message and the gap between the two evolutionary 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.606 process 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:39.787 in time. Who is there? That parameter which is needed in order to develop 00:13:39.820 --> 00:13:45.407 this transformation probably going to the message. I'm sort of consumption. 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:52.006 Is this trying to democracies? 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:54.376 Yeah. 00:13:54.409 --> 00:13:58.346 Since you have a conceptual town at the end of everything present, which 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:02.307 has been before. So that's the notion of the selection 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:10.340 posted. Oh Mhm uh well continue. The amount of truth represented by the 00:14:13.190 --> 00:14:18.516 past is known in very italian parcels even more distressing. The bulk of 00:14:18.549 --> 00:14:23.917 truth does not yet exist because it is sturbin that which does not exist 00:14:23.950 --> 00:14:31.726 in the future. Fretful, we know but we do not know past and we also know 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:38.087 that we cannot know in the future. And so since the resolution of the 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:43.746 cosmic puzzle, he's in the remoteness of a distant and far from granted 00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:50.417 future anguish is in the very nature of conscious life. In the absurd case 00:14:50.450 --> 00:14:55.067 that we should have access to knowledge, capital, play, creation would 00:14:55.100 --> 00:15:01.717 start life would be extinguished time, Name change put in this is a very 00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:08.547 we need not waste time on the truth might come about through the self 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:14.006 recreational process. Therefore time will be concerned 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:19.146 when this cosmo genesis is concluded, the cosmos will have achieved the 00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:24.467 creation of its own seed because time will be no more. It will be the seed 00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:29.447 of resurrection. This is the total recall of the evolutionary process of 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:36.087 cosmo genesis. The consequence the consequence of this conclusion will be 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:41.297 justice, Beauty, embrace and film because of the retroactive nature of the 00:15:41.330 --> 00:15:49.330 omega psi. Then with timeless every occasion will be found. Every occasion 00:15:49.529 --> 00:15:55.136 will have found its absolute fitness within the totality as well as the 00:15:55.169 --> 00:16:00.057 radiant and living knowledge of its own value. This is a scandal 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:06.006 explanation of my eschatological hypothesis. 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:09.976 In building the small town of Arcosanti, in Central Arizona, we are trying 00:16:10.009 --> 00:16:16.327 to be congruent with that hypothesis so as to add an infanticidal brick to 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:21.846 the construction creation of the ultimate seed. In other words, we are 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.776 pursuing the urban effect because it is the most comprehensive process by 00:16:25.809 --> 00:16:31.476 which truth, justice. Congruence and beauty can be sought. The reason is 00:16:31.509 --> 00:16:38.827 simple cosmo genesis is a process of complex ification profound beyond the 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:43.797 capacity of the most furthered imagination. The urban mode is the 00:16:43.830 --> 00:16:49.006 prototypical structure for fostering such a process. 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:53.967 The urban effect is not a human invention. It is very common means by 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:59.047 which life itself grows about existing. Persevering reproducing and 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:06.276 developing evolution is the urban effect imposed upon nonlife by life and 00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:13.786 in position by the exception. Life upon the rule, non life based on the 00:17:13.819 --> 00:17:20.407 urban effect. But congruent with its nature. Excuse me, based on the urban 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:25.607 effect. And then grilled with its nature. We are trying to establish a 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:31.506 better environmental coherence, a better use of the resources of the sun. 00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:38.427 We are trying to reduce isolation, illumination, segregation, Greed, 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:43.486 intolerance and prejudice. We are battling the mediocrity of the society. 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.607 Help out on consumerism. 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:52.407 We hope you want to get to know the project. The task is enormous and the 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:59.806 need and the help is needed. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:04.907 Did you discuss this then after you presented, you didn't tell because 00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:08.006 it's like a 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:13.506 well did anyone discuss it? Not uncommon. 00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:21.539 I prefer the comments uh two and the Austin like Shrek 00:18:25.339 --> 00:18:30.516 now we got we got the point because debating some of it's going to be So 00:18:30.549 --> 00:18:36.016 this service was since they had some notion about it I think so hard to 00:18:36.049 --> 00:18:43.907 find what that was. Okay 00:18:43.940 --> 00:18:50.877 and the common. Mhm Well there were other speakers presenting other papers 00:18:50.910 --> 00:18:57.326 was what I wonder whether there was any inroads between some of those 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:04.086 presentations in this. I don't know but I'm not sure there was some 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:08.506 development. Total speakers 00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:13.306 I watched maybe 1000 00:19:13.339 --> 00:19:20.107 and I felt that some of those Yeah. Waters 00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:27.207 and then I think they're going to appear all in the next issue. Oh 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:35.240 Mhm 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:44.839 Yeah. Uh huh In this paper you mentioned are preserved 00:19:44.859 --> 00:19:49.197 and identify it as being 00:19:49.230 --> 00:19:56.286 kind of respect towards this evolutionary process. Party. You broke define 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.607 in here 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:07.640 when you identify evolutionary processes and cosmo genesis. Um Ladies, 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:16.516 you'd like to say something about the uh huh whatever the hidden pattern 00:20:16.549 --> 00:20:24.549 is of this kind of home revolution revolutionary process. 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.806 Uh huh But mainly is 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:36.107 the idea that consciousness it's a little level and 00:20:36.140 --> 00:20:43.207 government. Well we all do. Yeah, carrier 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.506 consciousness not please resources. 00:20:47.539 --> 00:20:55.539 That consciousness feels very very basically with the cost of time. 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:03.816 We make time. In fact we produce something which is different. We make 00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:11.849 duration. The very fact of existence. Yeah, becoming huh. In this person 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:17.107 existing in becoming deals 00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:23.306 hold your many kilometers with 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:29.657 aspect of complexity. The moral consciousness is present and a lot of 00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:32.407 complexities present. 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:40.440 But we can make some kind of look where complexity and consciousness and 00:21:40.789 --> 00:21:44.597 self consciousness 00:21:44.630 --> 00:21:51.887 can I please? And consciousness is an interesting complexity. So yeah, so 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:56.467 many kilometers which are making reality and conflict context feels very 00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:04.500 crucial. Ones who gives a deal. We were time you're studying us. There's 00:22:05.859 --> 00:22:10.536 nothing else for the simplicity of the gravity. Anticipating ourselves 00:22:10.569 --> 00:22:15.167 internally complexity. Beginning 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:22.046 so whenever we think in terms of doing and performing you better Keep in 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:28.076 Mind This one which I think is a Yeah. And that is not a simple that we 00:22:28.109 --> 00:22:33.306 are seeking but it's a complex, complex, 00:22:33.339 --> 00:22:38.107 intense. My life results 00:22:38.140 --> 00:22:42.107 more and more. We're going to move into 00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:48.506 a little do a quick tested this 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:54.266 Somalia and I would suggest it would be very, very, very funny. This 00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:59.707 evolution came out with criminals eventually experience 00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:06.617 mostly conflicts machine. For the sake of simplicity. The motion to have 00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:12.147 this kind of phenomenon which is making Mansour complex because in that 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:19.476 direction he is over graced exist. You know, for example, if you represent 00:23:19.509 --> 00:23:26.506 we're through then we would be Yeah, but I was okay. The very simple 00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:31.107 organism would be closer to me 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:35.407 God would be a very simple 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:40.266 or something just happened that we were thinking in terms of divinity 00:23:40.299 --> 00:23:48.299 takes or something infinitely 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:55.796 just translate that to a very class devil that implies 00:23:55.829 --> 00:24:00.476 in terms of the design of building evidence which will be increasingly 00:24:00.509 --> 00:24:06.097 complex. The rest of the urban effect 00:24:06.130 --> 00:24:10.806 as a term is that kind of 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.006 process 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:19.117 which this complex education reality comes about moving. We want even more 00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:24.016 substantial because you're not dealing with individuals in the association 00:24:24.049 --> 00:24:27.006 of individuals 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:31.306 in a world and exponential phenomenon. Local classification which appears. 00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:34.407 So the community 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:41.006 turns out to be one of those manifestations of this complexity 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:46.006 in florida organized opposition. I don't know 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:48.707 just what you 00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:55.117 and then you have to expect. It's that kind of a conditional situation 00:24:55.150 --> 00:24:57.306 where 00:24:57.339 --> 00:25:00.407 whatever 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:06.226 consciousness. Mm hmm. Mhm intensity and sensitivity and all those things 00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:13.506 are and eventually going to be exponentially developed. 00:25:13.539 --> 00:25:19.457 That's the importance of the city. What does uh as an instrument for 00:25:19.490 --> 00:25:24.056 economic development? Russia as an instrument of control, people and 00:25:24.089 --> 00:25:28.006 things that as an instrument for transcendence. 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:34.019 And we forget, I think we don't know what we're doing in the cities. 00:25:35.740 --> 00:25:37.740 Buildings of what environment most of the time buildings are part of the 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:50.440 organic. So there are particles fragments, fish, urbanism and so taking to 00:25:50.630 --> 00:25:58.107 develop itself performance. 00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:04.397 But just to make an argument from this that this implies that mhm The 00:26:04.430 --> 00:26:11.407 larger and more complex city is potentially further along the evolutionary 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:18.647 birds. Yeah. The problem here, what the problem we have is that we get 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.107 mixed up between complex and complicated 00:26:23.140 --> 00:26:27.097 with the complicated, very often is not very complex. That is complicated 00:26:27.130 --> 00:26:29.607 because complexity 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.207 as you get 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.296 developed 00:26:34.329 --> 00:26:40.006 and technology is a very good example. Technology is 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:44.207 Uh huh. A very simple mind 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:50.407 way of affirming mm 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:56.986 the importance for acting upon them. But it's not acting of a biological 00:26:57.019 --> 00:27:01.816 position which is a very subtle one. Is an action, a political position 00:27:01.849 --> 00:27:09.437 which is a very segregation. Well, so technology, it's a super mind in 00:27:09.470 --> 00:27:16.306 this solve problems as they do in a cage in seven. 00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:22.006 And it's been effective in this. We didn't that reference. But 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:28.137 unfortunately, it's a family which is very limited limited. So whenever we 00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:36.170 consign ourselves technology or technology be very endangered. Whitening 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:40.306 complexity into 00:27:40.339 --> 00:27:48.046 into complicated nous. To the complicated. Could you be more specific in 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:53.607 terms of giving us an illustration of the difference between complexity, 00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:59.246 complicated nous. Well, you take a cat. 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:07.279 Yeah, you're in the presence of a very complex and um you take a summary 00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:13.266 in your presence are very complicated, 00:28:13.299 --> 00:28:20.347 propelled social convention, terribly subtle 00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:28.380 cyclist, cyclist, cyclist, closer journalist is artery and hotel 00:28:31.339 --> 00:28:39.339 to reproduce itself. Opening cycles and never closing them. So 00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:45.207 but in effect that kind of discrimination could be made about any 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:53.240 comparison. Uh Mr objects like cats versus man made objects such as simple 00:28:54.339 --> 00:29:02.339 obviously. So then the question is, are we if there is any reasonable 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:10.839 foundation for us to be all father to be makers or should we retreat into 00:29:12.500 --> 00:29:17.407 ourselves and really made 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.506 biologically. 00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:25.707 You need to to the animal to the animal 00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:33.740 controlling. My notion is not my nose. two ways. It's not country 00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:38.647 technology. It's only an extension about technology since its very 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:46.107 primitive and very young still renovation soviet to deal with it. 00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:52.006 Precaution in order open mindedness, 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:57.887 college and distinguishing between what's feasible and this result which 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:01.207 celeb central with Caroline. 00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:09.240 Well, I'm not in the market and then we decide what to do 00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:16.867 problem. Can you identify any yeah. Environment designed environments 00:30:16.900 --> 00:30:24.266 which which you would admire in terms of their complexity and I'm sure. Mm 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.407 hmm. 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:30.006 Four. Okay. 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:38.039 Any any settlement that has been performing for generations 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:43.006 probably represents. I'm a very good example, 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:51.039 complexity. Social point forward. Economic cultural. Mhm. 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:59.806 But as any other kind of and man made things, it's imperfect me. Too. 00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:02.407 Different tile. 00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:08.387 Okay. You can make a little list but from that point of view then a new 00:31:08.420 --> 00:31:14.707 settlement such as our cousin. Yeah. Has 00:31:14.740 --> 00:31:21.607 tremendous handicaps. Yeah. But the most grossest one is the lack of time. 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:26.506 Mhm. The fact that it is new. 00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:33.117 Yeah. At the same time since we're engaged in the transformation of what 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:39.316 exists. We have tried to find guidelines. So that some of the stuff 00:31:39.349 --> 00:31:47.349 relations my offer immortality options and the true reject access to 00:31:47.569 --> 00:31:51.707 options. It's a very democratic. 00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:58.437 So when the society has the means of experimenting and I think it becomes 00:31:58.470 --> 00:32:06.117 an imperative side words we got this came from because that's the only way 00:32:06.150 --> 00:32:11.506 language going to develop your option. 00:32:11.539 --> 00:32:16.957 Now. Since we're very clear about the evils for the human settlement of 00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:20.207 this is in physical terms, 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:25.506 it should be easy enough to try to, 00:32:25.539 --> 00:32:32.306 to remain the most 00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:34.607 fuels 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:39.107 By incorporating one system 00:32:39.140 --> 00:32:42.506 changes to each other. Each other. 00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:50.539 Yeah. In no case. Yeah. Five or six. 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:55.957 Well, he's been monumentally better. The only 30 years of resources 00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:58.806 including energy. 00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:05.647 No one is there. Well, mhm. Roast in Britain. The probability of the most 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:13.680 important. You see. Congratulations. 00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:21.377 Maybe we should talk a little bit more of a your actual experiment in a 00:33:21.410 --> 00:33:26.076 large environment namely artisan 00:33:26.109 --> 00:33:29.806 and gear premise that 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:35.056 that the funding comes first, that hardware is necessary before you get to 00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:37.306 perform. 00:33:37.339 --> 00:33:44.107 Do you think that the place is mature enough yet to be able to identify 00:33:44.140 --> 00:33:52.140 any distinction about life there versus somewhere else? Mm. No, uh, 00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:00.107 aspects on which in a way 00:34:00.140 --> 00:34:06.526 necessary. You're trying to make a picture have succeeded. But one aspect 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:14.559 is that the means are limited. So I by necessity we have to be. 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:20.206 And that's in the session which is important for 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:26.477 inside I believe that what we're doing. Mm hmm. The aspect of value might 00:34:26.510 --> 00:34:30.807 be one of the most important contributions we might be making if we get to 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:38.840 a point where we can tell ourselves upwards the like and requite would we 00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:47.447 don't. So consumers beach, you got it. 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:54.086 It's a product of ourselves which which which we are in. We are in in this 00:34:54.119 --> 00:35:00.206 avalanche of consumerism. So we are the ones that have to change 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:05.626 our behavior public. And it's not to prove that you never had the 00:35:05.659 --> 00:35:08.367 collection 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:12.907 serious society that should change. 00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:20.940 Um How how did you decide? Oh well you've identified one quality. The 00:35:21.670 --> 00:35:28.006 possibility the forbidden to make it might become 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:33.756 by word wondering if you could generalize in any other way trip. An 00:35:33.789 --> 00:35:41.789 archaeological standard might be terms of human life. Mhm. 00:35:41.969 --> 00:35:47.506 An example would be that instead of 00:35:47.539 --> 00:35:53.706 developing a rich individual family group, 00:35:53.739 --> 00:35:59.367 all those things that we know, we think of this another respect, a good 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:03.396 life rearranging 00:36:03.429 --> 00:36:08.497 the physical. We might find out that many of the things that we think are 00:36:08.530 --> 00:36:14.197 indispensable. Not only company is possible, but there are obstacles 00:36:14.230 --> 00:36:21.626 yourself. Mhm. 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:24.997 For example here 00:36:25.030 --> 00:36:33.030 keeping the final environment becomes useless. We get about 200 waste. 00:36:33.329 --> 00:36:35.997 Oh 00:36:36.030 --> 00:36:43.046 her own trouble. That's been done for most of man's life. Yeah. At that 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:49.436 time the ability to work and we have you know that we have ability to 00:36:49.469 --> 00:36:51.497 transform. 00:36:51.530 --> 00:36:59.530 Let's see reality. Unfortunately, real wasting our capacity 00:36:59.730 --> 00:37:05.396 sandwich sensitive. 00:37:05.429 --> 00:37:12.736 Just taking one step further than the idea of that modern life has given 00:37:12.769 --> 00:37:19.197 us a lot of options that you never, ever. Oh we never had before. Uh huh. 00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:27.046 Don't these options change the the potentials in relationship to urban 00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:30.097 effect 00:37:30.130 --> 00:37:36.006 for instance Montfort in the city in history tries to project the future, 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.296 which is 00:37:39.329 --> 00:37:44.146 is very decentralized, which is heavily dependent in terms of energy on 00:37:44.179 --> 00:37:50.477 the electrical grid and which is dependent for communications on 00:37:50.510 --> 00:37:57.706 television and telephone variance. Isn't it strange that no food comes 00:37:57.739 --> 00:38:00.557 over here 00:38:00.590 --> 00:38:08.477 since his humanist. It needed to believe that great. The personal contact 00:38:08.510 --> 00:38:14.486 , the remote contact to thomas. 00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:18.287 Mhm. 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:25.157 We keep telling ourselves that this city is becoming less and less 00:38:25.190 --> 00:38:30.686 important because we can you can move ideas. 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:34.756 But that that's that's something when she refers to only a small part of 00:38:34.789 --> 00:38:40.387 what it means. It doesn't refer 00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:45.287 you ever to the most important part of what that means that which is 00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:51.816 personal contact and the actual performances. Yeah. So I cannot I cannot 00:38:51.849 --> 00:38:59.849 have a media by television. You know, like surreal encounter with home. 00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:05.997 But what we find to make babies. No worries. Moving forward. Television 00:39:06.030 --> 00:39:10.486 set. Mm hmm. 00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:17.517 And it definitely is not the whole support system which is feeding demon 00:39:17.550 --> 00:39:24.017 sitting well with you. Again, it will be done to Table two Vibration, 00:39:24.050 --> 00:39:28.186 vibration their purpose for many many generations. 00:39:28.219 --> 00:39:35.486 Circle beneath of environment, which is a movie for a substantial. 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:42.486 Mhm is not diminished by the fact that we have you're trying to do 00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:50.157 that was going to be and answers. Mhm. Doing that in my generation is 00:39:50.190 --> 00:39:55.686 experienced. But definitely no way 00:39:55.719 --> 00:40:03.719 part of the sexual learning knowledge. Communication, no sense of 00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:08.677 experience. 00:40:08.710 --> 00:40:14.376 Mhm So the concept of the decentralized, 00:40:14.409 --> 00:40:21.206 post industrial world for you would be a step backward. It depends what we 00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.787 mean by decentralized. If we say that it's not doesn't make sense for the 00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:32.836 continent. Like you don't have to have to anonymous centers of life like 00:40:32.869 --> 00:40:38.267 the eastern seaboard and Western support and Chicago areas so that they 00:40:38.300 --> 00:40:44.177 get that was the decentralized symbolizing we mean that we have to break 00:40:44.210 --> 00:40:52.210 down the community from the left to the city. And we would mm hmm We're 00:40:53.349 --> 00:40:56.376 back into the wilderness. 00:40:56.409 --> 00:41:04.409 Maybe the solo was publication that I would say that we had mistakes. 00:41:04.909 --> 00:41:12.267 So, since to me that we are to develop very very intense lively centers 00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:19.577 and the size of those centers. It's up there. Mhm. Depends on many factors. 00:41:19.610 --> 00:41:25.367 But this centers. Mhm. Need containment Because without containment to 00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:32.677 adopt by having los Angeles phillips. Mhm. 00:41:32.710 --> 00:41:39.066 Mexico city's phenomenons which are problem really just helping. Yeah, but 00:41:39.099 --> 00:41:43.887 containment doesn't mean isolation. It's just the opposite. You know, As I 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:49.586 can say close to containment that he developed intensity. It's too 00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:54.577 intensive. Within you can broadcast. You will receive 00:41:54.610 --> 00:42:01.887 So by dissolving my physiological structure. I do not obtain integration. 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:09.300 I could I obtain this integration. So it's by containing myself finished. 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:12.400 But can't you identify in the phenomenon of the modern city the urban 00:42:17.019 --> 00:42:25.019 effect that you describe that cities are have been growing Tyne. You throw 00:42:25.900 --> 00:42:33.900 abnormal mm abnormal rates the living conditions are steadily 00:42:34.329 --> 00:42:39.347 deteriorating as a result. And it would seem as though that's a kind of 00:42:39.380 --> 00:42:45.267 self destructive mode. Which 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:49.447 is turning back on itself against some of the concepts that you tried to 00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:55.867 represent. Well, isn't that because we feel that by any kind of discipline 00:42:55.900 --> 00:43:03.206 is infringing on our freedom. Oh, once someone else, we put that up a 00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:07.447 slogan is not what we can do it because we have to accept the fact that 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:15.480 anybody can do just about anything. Your ship business. Once that decision 00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:23.387 has a democratic society. And then we're in the disaster closely. Well, we 00:43:23.420 --> 00:43:29.456 should return to the garage to find out how the biological clicks. And I'm 00:43:29.489 --> 00:43:34.037 trying to see because you get transferred that Into the 1st Battle. Can 00:43:34.070 --> 00:43:39.037 see if you can make some okay. And evidently one thing it's very clear, 00:43:39.070 --> 00:43:43.767 very important in a biological is tremendous. 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:50.467 30 movies? Yeah. Anything existing were submitted 00:43:50.500 --> 00:43:56.467 was no fascinating survival when there's something. 00:43:56.500 --> 00:44:00.327 So it's not sufficient to set up some very genetic rules and and say, well 00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:05.356 , we are intelligent creatures, advice through self interest. We're going 00:44:05.389 --> 00:44:09.166 to develop the first. 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:16.019 Well, mhm. It doesn't work that way. We need toproblem